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Weight Loss Isn't as Simple as You Think (Page 2)
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Love this myTake. It's a very interesting read and maybe I'll get to the studies in a little while. I just had time to read what you had to say about it, and I learned a bit from it. :)
Tx girly! <3
You're welcome! I'm hoping to get mine out for #TeamRJ either tonight or tomorrow night. I was way too exhausted yesterday, haha.
Lol you still have 3-4 more days. I might toss out another one if I have the time
Yeah, I'm trying to put out at least two myTakes this week. We'll see.
Looking forward to it!
The first one is out now!
Lol well of course it's not easy the only people who say that are con men.
First thing I tell clients and people looking to lose weight is that its not easy. It's a long and hard journey.
Right, but, by comparison it's a cakewalk for people who have never been significantly overweight.
Yes and no it not easy regardless whether your really overweight or not that overweight it takes just as much effort, motivation and work, the main difference is time and their lifestyle which you'll have to change.
I know this seeing how it's kind of my job to get people into shape, lose weight and get healthy.
But... no, not really. That's the point of the take.
When people are overweight, but haven't ever been obese by 50-75%+ of their bodyweight (generally the threshold at which the things I've described start to happen)... their bodies actually ADAPT as they lose weight.
Their "maintenance" calorie levels drop -- because they're losing weight -- but, their appetites eventually drop along with those calorie levels, and their bodies *adjust* -- in basically every important way -- to their new, lower bodyweight.
When people HAVE been obese by that percentage, their bodies LITERALLY NEVER ADAPT. They are stuck with the appetite of a much bigger, much fatter person FOREVER.
It's never super easy for *anyone* to lose weight and keep it off in an environment of constant cheap food abundance, but, people who've been obese DEFINITELY have it harder -- and they'll have it harder literally for the rest of their lives, too, unless science figures out a way to conquer this leptin resistance thing.
Your literally telling me stuff I already know like I said I am a professional trainer.
And I know the point of your take lol.
it is hard to lose weight. I give credit to those humansauruses who get on the treadmill at gym. Must be a mountain to climb.
But it's still easier to do that, than change your personality, which is why I get the shits when any woman tells a man to "change himself" to get a girl. Its even worse when that comes from a fat girl 😂
Do you know if this is true for all people once they get a certain weight? Do you know how certain the data looks?
From the looks of it, there's almost certainly SOME weight at which this is going to be a thing, for basically everyone. (I mean... by the time you hit, say, 500lbs? Yeahhh...)
Simple common sense seems to tell me 2 things:
• That "threshold" weight is going to vary from person to person. It's probably going to be a lot higher for people with bigger default phenotypes (think, say, Samoans).
• It's almost certainly oversimplifying to think there's a single weight threshold. It's probably a sliding scale, where people become more and more leptin-resistant the heavier they let tehmselves get (and/or the longer they stay at a higher weight).
It's also POSSIBLE that a shitty enough diet could bring about *some* of these changes at more moderate bodyweights -- in the same way that non-obese people can become type 2 diabetic, for instance.
But, there's a LOT of unknowns, and it's an incredibly complicated field of research with a shit-ton of different variables.
And the G@G Pulitzer goes to Redeyemindtricks! This is fantastic! If I was morbidly obese and this diet could fix it, I would do it in a heartbeat♡
Thanks <3
informative. ir to one of your replies: we don't have the tools necessary to create a way to precisely measure calorie intake with any sort of accuracy required yet. one we craft that tool then we'll get a sound understanding of what's going on
Are you talking about using Atwater values instead of the usual 4/4/9 approximations (for cals per gram of carb/pro/fat)?
If the Atwater values are used, and the person is SUPER anal about measuring everything that goes into her/his food, then we can be pretty darn close.
Cooking weekly food instead of daily -- and, accordingly, calculating calories on a weekly basis -- brings down the % error a lot, too.
__
I guess I need clarification on exactly what you're saying here.
Are you saying that...
...1) there's too much human error, residual error (stuff left in containers etc), and measurement error for PEOPLE to be precise about their OWN intake?
Or
...2) that there's actually significant uncertainty as to the actual caloric content of common food items?
If you're saying #1, that can be minimized by the steps above.
If you're saying #2, that's news to me... AFAIK that stuff is pretty well known, except for newfangled stuff like iso-malto-oligosaccharides (in Quest bars etc).
The best encouragement I've seen here to stay healthy :D
A very engaging style of writing I must add.
Thanks, I appreciate that (kind words on my writing style always... make my day) <3 xx
This was a nice read even as someone who's overweight. I ruined myself by only eating 1200 calories a day for 2 years them becoming bulimic. I don't know the science behind it, but basically doctor says I have an extremely slow metabolism because of it which will take years to repair. I barely touch starches or any carbs anymore but I'm still almost always hungry. So I just chug water instead. Hopefully with time it will get better :( Nice take!
Let me think this over for a bit.
1200 calories is generally regarded as the minimum "floor" to NOT do that kind of metabolic damage. If you were consistently eating at that level, then it would be strange if you'd sustained massive metabolic damage.
That's *net* calories, of course. If you were EATING 1200 calories/day, but then exercising away several hundred of those calories... then there'd be problems over a long enough term.
Still, though, the human metabolism is more resilient than we give it credit for. There were survivors of Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen who ate WAY less than 1200 calories/day, for a period of years, and their metabolisms rebounded surely enough once they were back to normal lifestyles (the few who were lucky enough to survive).
The real issues tend to be changes in the way yr body partitions nutrients... basically, it STORES the calories you eat differently, because it's like "oh shit! I have to plan for survival!" ... and *that* is the thing that takes
time to overcome.
There shouldn't be that much of a lasting decrement in metabolic *rate* per se -- at least that's not anything I've seen supported by genuine scientific evidence. But, you may be sorta fucked for a little while in terms of where yr body sends all those calories that you're eating.
Let me think it over, I'll pm you when I have the time (probably later this week or early next).
Thanks, I was also very active during that time. I played HS soccer and competitive club team soccer
"NO starches, NO sugars, NO dairy, and, generally, NO carbohydrates AT AL" and yet some people have managed to lose weight while eating all of those. i agree with this post... to some extent.
Sure they have. But, either...
• ... they've lost the weight, but simply had to deal with the never-ending, relentless, torture-level hunger ALL THE TIME.
• And/or they weren't *that* overweight in the first place (these things don't happen in earnest until people are overweight by about 50-75% of their "ideal" weight -- meaning around 225 to 260 lbs for someone whose natural set-point is 150lbs, and so on).
She is talking about the people who have passed the "point of no return". Those who lost weight without saying "NO to junk" were in controllable condition already.
damn, okay then. i guess this is why i always feel like i'm about to pass out from hunger all the time. i've lost 20 pounds already since last year, and got 10 more to go. i want to be 125. i guess the weight that i was at (155) is why. i eat like a normal person, in fact, i always eat 300 less calories than i am supposed to per day and i walk for hours a day. but i stil feel so famished all the time. like i haven't eaten in days.
I'm slim and i know its harder for you but if it helps my high metabolism isn't all perfect it comes with getting restless and over heating easily.
That energy you burn has to go somewhere!
Also muscle burns energy even inactive so maybe you could weight lift?
Sounds like a lot of excuses for fat people lol I'll have to warn my girlfriend. She's packed on a few lbs the past year lol
Be careful with a topic as sensitive as that. There are a lot of *wrong* ways to bring up that sort of thing.
If you have the right kind of tact, and you're good at approaching delicate situations, then she will DEFINITELY appreciate yr keeping an eye on her in the long run. She might get a little pissy when the issue is addressed, but, believe me, she will respect and value you MUCH more than if it's just "uh-huh, mmhmm, yes honey, whatever you do is fine honey".
As long as you're not a dick about it. (:
Yeah I have to tread lightly with my girlfriend. She doesn't really take a lot of crap lol
Lol...
really, this is the sort of topic where you'd want to tread lightly with *anyone*... but that's funny ahah. Given what you've said in the past about the dynamic between the two of you.
Yeah really funny haha! I haven't used the "c" word since😀
😂😂😂😂
Yeah yeah she's a baws I believe you said. Whatevs
And what experience do you have on the subject? I went from 170 pounds with a huge belly to 184 pounds of hulkiness by just working out. These fat people dont do shit with their lives then they complain. And its the tax payer who pays for their hospital bills (most obese people live in poverty)
Health and fitness is both my nerdy passion and my livelihood.
Where are you fitness pics?
I don't post pictures on this site, because some of the stuff I've posted here is pretty racy, and I have a teenage kid. Nuff said.
You don't post much of constructive value on this site, y'know.
I can't take this seriously unless you have some kind of credentials. Most of what you write is nonsense, y'know
Mhm.
Lol redeyes does this for living boyo. She coaches professional people that you've probabaly heard of. Really big names. She also got her procard and competed.
@Fearless_banana
What proof? I need some spoon pics.
Just by talking to her lol you will know she is legitimate after an amount of time. She helps me out with a lot of questions and knows her stuff.
@Fearless_banana
I dont believe it. I need pics
You spelled "I need a life" wrong.
Even if she wasn't a trained expert, she posted links to sources.
Her take was based on those sources, so she has written a take based on reliable sources.
But keep trying to perv on someone's photos.
@bbch25 ahah I just realized, I didn't even bother to point out the fact that I hyperlinked more than 10 studies. Thanks.
Careful, he might start to engage you, instead of me... baha <3 girlfrennnn
@bbch25 only someone on GaG would accuse someone of perving. You go to any other forum and people will ask for proof.
Yes, or they could've opened all the sources provided and realised, even if the author doesn't have qualifications they cited references that DO have them.
You saying 'nope show me pictures" over and over again, gives me cause to call you a perv.
HARD - but like anything worth achieving in life not impossible. It's up to the individual to decide if that is what they truly want.
All you need is a kitchen knife and a strong vacuum... cheap and quick, that's how us Hawaiians did it. Suck um dri brah
Avocado in the diet helps, but when your body gets too used to a certain weight, it will pull every trick in the book to keep you there.
This take is very awesome, especially because you put the picture of chandler :D
Losing weight is actually easy. What is difficult is, is gaining muscle. Weight loss does not make a man any more attractive, he is supposed to gain muscle, which is very difficult. I wish losing weight would be enough, but it is not.
This was a good read, lots to consider, thanks.
Thank you!
I've never even heard of PSMF before, how does someone manage to get enough calories if they are cutting out all carbs and nearly all fats? Doesn't your body turn protein into glucose or something? This sounds sooo complicated lol, but I'd love to know more about it all.
"Enough calories" lol, the whole point is to create a calorie deficit! Otherwise there won't be weight loss.
What's special about PSMF, versus other diets, is that it seems to be the only protocol that (1) works as a "crash" diet AND (2) preserves lean muscle while allowing the loss of bodyfat.
Yeah yr body can make glucose from protein sources (gluconeogenesis), but that's a pretty inefficient pathway, and it doesn't happen unless it's totally necessary. On a diet like PSMF, yr body runs mostly on "ketone bodies" (= a byproduct of fatty acid metabolism) instead of glucose.
I mean... lol just to stick another knife in this idea of "enougg calories", consider this obese guy who literally consumed ZERO calories (with proper vitamin and mineral supplementation) for OVER A YEAR:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/.../postmedj00315-0056.pdf
K that guy who didn't eat.. w.. t.. f? It's like everything we know is wrong. So it doesn't matter if you live off of 700 calories a day, so long as all you eat is protean?
Does this mean someone this fat should live off Protean Isolate shakes then?
Well, as I mentioned in the take, even us professional fitness types don't stick to PSMF-type diets for more than a month or so. (*Maybe* two months, in the case of male bodybuilders who've gotten "fluffy" in the offseason and have to get back down to stage-level bodyfat levels in a relative hurry.)
An OBESE person can stay on PSMF (or even a 382-day fast, lol) for an insanely long period of time because she/he still has large stores of bodyfat -- not only to provide sustenance, but also to provide HORMONAL balance.
That's the main function of dietary fat, after all -- it's the ultimate source of *all* sex hormones (testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, LH, FSH, etc).
If someone who ISN'T obese tries to eat a PSMF for an extended period of time -- or ends up in an equivalent situation, through bulimia or anorexia nervosa -- then her/his sexual functionality will basically drop to zero. Along with general motivation, drive, and zest for life in general.
If you've ever known
any perimenopausal or menopausal women who've gone through a REALLY rough time with their general motivation and drive in life -- usually because of a drop in their testosterone levels, but also because of various other menopausal hormone losses -- imagine multiplying that by 100,000,000,000 and that's what a long-term fat-free diet would do to an individual of normal or below-normal weight.
Obese people don't face those issues, because obese people can derive circulating hormones from their stored fat, the same way they could from ingested dietary fat.
Liquid calories tend to cause issues with hunger -- but, if an obese person could live on a liquid diet, along with proper supplementation of vitamins/minerals, and could somehow figure out ways to keep hunger at bay? Then yeah, a "diet" of liquid protein shakes could absolutely work for a long long time.
(Male bodybuilders don't face the shutdown of their sexual function, by the way, because they're on so many
exogenous steroidal drugs that it doesn't even matter if they're eating dietary fat. Same thing with male fitness models, and with any male celebrity who stays "ripped" for the camera year-round -- they're ALL on at least some form, and probably several forms, of exogenous androgens, so they can eat extremely low-fat diets without suffering all of those side effects. Otherwise, if they were that lean all the time they wouldn't even be able to get erections.
It's more complicated for women, because we have to be a lot more conservative when it comes to the use of any and all performance-enhancing drugs. I am... uhmm... yeah, I'm just kind of a bitch in the run-up to my figure competitions, ahah)
Also, psychological compliance is a thing, and long-term willpower is NOT a thing. (Really, studies have shown this -- Long-term willpower basically doesn't exist. People are INCAPABLE of denying their urges, over a long enough period of time. If behavior modification is
to last for months or years, the only way that will succeed is if the person's actual values and priorities change to realign in parallel with the behaviors.)
People's priorities can -- and do -- often shift in favor of fitness in general, especially once they've experienced the benefits of being in greater shape vs. having been fat once upon a time. However, there's really not any priority shift I can think of that would realign someone's mind with sometihng as extreme as PSMF -- it's more of a life-hack that would appeal to someone who likes extreme, temporary life-hacks. So, honestly, I don't think anyone would ever be ABLE to stick to it for a long enough time period.
This is all fascinating! Makes me wish I took this stuff in college.
Is this all new information or something? Why don't doctors put really fat people on these kinds of diets to get them back in control of their eating?
also, do you know any good books on the subject or anything similar?
PSMF is an incredibly strict behavior modification. Compliance rates, outside of actual inpatient medical settings, are VERY low -- and, since Americans typically don't eat organ means (brains/livers/hearts/etc), PSMF requires vitamin/mineral supplementation in order to work without creating micronutrient deficits.
Dude, most patients are bad enough at even taking a single drug on a single schedule (witness the # of women who get pregnant because they can't be bothered to take BC pills at the same time of day every day), so it's laughable to think that compliance rates would be much higher than zero.
Plus, the medical establishment is SUPER conservative -- anything that even seems like it *might* portend a malpractice suit (like the possible micronutrient deficits that would come from longterm PSMF without supplements) is going to be avoided like the plague.
Lyle McDonald's "Rapid Fat Loss Handbook" is a good, readable intro to
PSMF in general. If you're cursed with the kind of appetite where you need an actual variety of food, then people like to trade recipes on the accompanying forum:
forums.lylemcdonald.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7
I have NEVER seen anyone EVER write, ANYWHERE, about how people should change their diets when they are supplementing with exogenous (and possibly illegal) hormones.
That's a solid point about the birth control, compliance rates, and doctors. I wonder if a sort of rehab facility for really fat people where they undergo PSMF, counseling and nutritional/fitness reeducation could be a solution to extreme obesity?
Over the last 6 or so years my mom, in her late 50's, has put on a huge amount of weight, she's been diagnosed with hypothyroidism and is medicated for it, plus she went through menopause. She's now also developed high blood pressure, bad knees and has been feeling hopeless about her weight gain, do you think something like this might help her? If it's so hard to stick to it how would people be able to do it, or is it more or less impossible?
I propose you a different approach. Eat as much as you want, but only do the extra with fruit.
Hm?
What is "the extra"?
In any case, fruit is something that should only be consumed in moderation, by anyone.
Fruit gets almost all its calories from sugar -- and it's primarily fructose (basically the worst kind of sugar), too.
Fruit is a BIG no-no on a fat-loss diet. Fructose will stop fat loss dead in its tracks.
Even when fruit has fructose, its glycemic index is low due to the amount of water and fibre it has.
The energy of six pieces of fruit is the same as a single energetic bar. The difference is it satiates you much sooner, and its full of micronutrients and antioxidants.
Raw vegans eat 80% of their diet based on fruit, and they are the leanest people in the world.
i.huffpost.com/.../slide_345235_3607142_free.jpg
Literally no one has ever stayed on a raw vegan diet for more than a few years. People have stayed on 75-80% raw vegan diets, but NEVER 100% -- even the biggest diehards. It seems like it may be something that just can't be done.
Dude... Freelee the banana girl lol.
Really?
She comes from a history riddled with eating disorders, and she's also LITERALLY CRAZY (have you ever seen her react to criticism? omgggg). I can't believe you actually think you can trust that what you're seeing there is real.
I mean... In the same way as all these supposedly "natural" Insta fitness models are actually on all kinds of steroids, but can't admit to it because they'd lose their sponsorships... I'm sure there's ALL KINDS of stuff going on behind the scenes there. Whether it's drugs, other food eaten off-camera... who knows.
But... yeah dude, you're holding up *her* as yr example? Someone who things amenorrhea (total lack of periods) is a GOOD thing, and who thinks periods themselves are "toxins
leaving the body"? Um... wow. Just wow.
Woman, I only have to walk to the mirror to know it's true. On the other hand I never said you should eat raw vegan, but rather that eating fruit actually reduces fat.
You turned what pretended to be a helpful tip into an opportunity to continue defeating yourself, and that's your sole problem.
🙈🙉🙊
You are right that fruit is less calorie-dense than other things. If that causes you to consume less energy overall, then you'll lose weight... because calories in calories out.
But, fruit itself doesn't *make* you lose weight. And if you drop weight while consuming that much sugar, you're going to drop a LOT of muscle mass and connective tissue, too. A high-sugar hypocaloric diet is not muscle-sparing.
Sure that you can find easier ways of losing fat short term, but the point of my suggestion is to reeducate your body for long term. To approach progressively to how you should eat and to make it a habit, rather than having a quick fix diet of thirty days that you won't hold any longer.
And about muscle lost, it's all about not eating enough. When you have some fat in your body your metabolism makes its energy from it, but if you don't have any it does from your muscles. Sugars you take are turned fat as needed, and soft fibres are turned proteins.
Anyway I don't know if eating exactly as Freelee is the best advice. What I can say is I have been eating vegan for three years, mostly raw with three meals made entirely of fruit, and I have never looked skinny or as loosing muscle. Nobody would ever say that.
Interesting, thanks.
Have you had any labs drawn for fasting insulin or fasting blood glucose? And/or taken any glucose tolerance tests?
I haven't.
Ok. If you ever do get those done, I'd be interested in the values, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
I'm... intensely curious about how a diet with so much sugar would affect those parameters. (Fruit sugar contains plenty of highly insulinogenic sugars, in addition to fructose)
I have found some of those on the Internet:
(https://www. google. es/search? q=raw+vegan+blood+test&tbm=isch)