Take My Name! It's Tradition!

[fjh80]

I'm a modern man.

I'm a traditional man.

What does this mean? It means I know where we come from and I know where we are. Where we are is a time where (in the western world anyway) equality is closer to being realized than it ever has been in all of human history.

I'm actually of the mindset that we're already there but I can accept that I don't have a complete understanding of every aspect of life. I can believe that there are areas where there are still problems for women, and the same can be said for men.

I still think that the family unit is as important as ever. I believe in marriage. I'm not married, but I would like to marry the woman who is the love of my life.

It seems, however, that that since equality, the idea of taking a mans name is looked at like a negative thing.

Being a "modern" man, I understand that it's not a given any more. If I should marry my girlfriend, I understand that I can't exactly assume that she'll be willing to take my name. I understand that some will twist it into a form of "ownership". Maybe it was in the past, but that's not what it is today. Being a "traditional" man, I still think she should take my name. When you take traditional, "she should take my name," and the modern, "she doesn't have to take my name", and you put them together, you get, "she should want to take my name."

This means that if she takes my name, it's going to be because she wants to.

I AM traditional in that way, so when I think about marriage, I ask myself, "What if she refuses to take my name?" It's something that's important to me. To me it means one name, one family. But would I call off the wedding if she refused to take my name? Probably not. If I love her enough that I want to marry her, this issue won't be enough to destroy that.

That being said, if she's not willing to take my name, is she really serious about becoming a family, and does she really respect, or love me? Being a family I think means being under one roof, and under one name. The fact that it's the mans name that's used is incidental. If it was traditional to take the womans name, I would not have an issue. Respecting tradition means respecting our families, and where we came from, for better or for worse.

Bringing "traditional" and "modern" together, what you get is a wife who takes your name because she chooses to. For her to choose to take my name, rather than being obligated to take my name shows me the scope of her love and respect for me, and gives me something to live up to.

So what are your honest thought?

Should we still respect our traditions?

Just because there was bad in the past, should we disregard the good?

Was my article all over the place, and hard to follow? Was it all over the place, and did I lose my point?

[Shutupman]

First of there are many countries that are much more progressive and do not have this anymore. Even my grandparents didn't have the same last name.

Why did we stop doing that?

A woman taking a man's last name stems from the mid-ages , where women weren't allowed to own anything and were seen as property to be passed on from father to husband. They were considered a man's property and the man had to take care of their every need as she was supposed to bare him (male) successors.

We all have our own names and identities now, taking ones name, ones identity (as it is stated in our lawbook) away after +20 years... Is sad.

I would and could never do that. Regardless of what the guy thinks. Then again I don't like tradional men so that works out.

[Lostranza]

Progressiveness in an interesting topic. One of the first things that we learn in sociology is that societies change and whether that change shows that the culture within the society is changing. Does it mean that this change is better or worse? Maybe maybe not its really a matter of opinion at that point. Personally I dont really care if I take my husbands name or if he takes my name, what matters most here is context. You will also find that if a woman's family has a more prominent role the man will take her name in certain societies. I think that name taking has more to do with class than gender. As a result women in these societies usually will not marry lower than their class. Men also could'nt afford to take women higher than their class because of dowry.

[HOAAH]

It's traditional in some cultures for the wife to take the husband's name but not for all cultures. I talked to a woman who was from South America and she said in her culture she does NOT take her husband's name and she still has her maiden last name. In my culture, not only do I take my husband's last name but I also become the wife of his first name and his first name changes when he gets married. As we are in the USA, I decided to keep my last name as well as put on his last name. I am my last name hyphen, his last name.

[torken]

i think one name one family. doesn't have to be the man's name, but it needs to be a family name. Why?

If john smith and jane brown become j&j smith-brown. and they have tim smith-brown who marries mary miller-jones and THEY have bobby smith-brown-miller-jones...

well shit, 3 generations later and our names are destroyed of all meaning.

being a family means giving up your individualism. it means letting go a little bit of yourself to become part of a group. we have lately started to put individualism on such a tall pedestal, but i can't do this all on my own because i know that i'm no superman.

[madhatters4]

"That being said, if she's not willing to take my name, is she really serious about becoming a family, and does she really respect, or love me? "

how does not taking your name mean she's not serious? how does being serious about being in a family mean being obliged to take one person's name based on antiquated societal traditions?

i think you are trying to find the balance and i appreciate the exercise because i think it is important but i think it's a bit strange to associate a person's commitment based on their desire or lack of to change their last name

[coachTanthony]

Taking someones last name is so outdated... I could care less really but if you want to keep to tradition the person could always hyphenate their name so everyone gets what they want!

[fjh80]

I've been talking a lot about tradition in my responses. There are other aspects of this discussion, but not really too important.
I'm not sure how i feel about hyphenating anymore. lol

[Guy13]

Take his name.. nothing hyphenated, don't confuse the kids !!

[NineBreaker]

Different cultures have different traditions when it comes to names. In my culture (at least among Muslim Arabs, if not Arabs generally), it's the exact opposite. Women should never change their last name to that of their husbands. A woman keeps her last name, which is inherited from her father. When I get married, my wife will not carry my last name, and she will keep her last name.

Bottom line, as long as a tradition is not harmful, I think it's reasonable to want your wife to take on your surname.

[fjh80]

I like this response.

This is as much about tradition as it is about the name thing.
If it's not in your tradition, then I wouldn't expect the name thing to be an issue.

It's looking more like a matter of respecting the tradition, which ever tradition you're expected to follow.

For me, traditionally, the woman would be expected to change her name. If she didn't respect the tradition, it would be harder for me.
Based on many responses, I'm starting to see that, if that particular part of tradition wasn't there, then it wouldn't be an issue.

Thanks your for responding.

[NineBreaker]

Indeed. That's absolutely fine. I'm all for tradition and all, as long as there is clear evidence that a tradition is not harmful. It's not like you're running with the bulls. If a man wants a his wife to take his name, and she is willing to, or even actively wants to do so, then it's their choice. I don't see anything harmful in it. It's alright!

[TisforTori]

We all have different things that matter to us. I understand the name mattering to many it matters to me. I respect and love my father immensely. I’d have nothing without his love and support over my lifetime. So with him having no sons and no brothers. It’s important to me to not be the one to let the name die. I’m engaged to be married and am head over hills in love. He’s my absolute best friend. After considering my options I’ve decided to get my name hyphenated after we marry. It’s a good balance for me and we’re all comfortable with it.

[fjh80]

I appreciate your response.
The hyphenating thing you mentioned, is not something that I would personally like, but the point you make about carrying on your dads name hits home with me. That much I appreciate. Also, the hyphenating thing isn't exactly something I would argue against if it didn't effect me.

I like the fact that you respect your father enough to honour him in that way. (or as I would say in my view, properly)

[alice55]

For me taking his husband name is for having the same name as your child which is very important.
I don't think it was about ownership but more for the woman to share the same name as her child.
In my country the woman never really change her name, in official government paper woman have to put her both name (her birth name and her spouse name, so she never lose her birth name).
It go like this "Marie Smith (Birth name) Spouse Winston (Husband name)". But in everyday life she would just be "Marie Winston".

Personally I would take my husband name because I want to. I think it truly show love and that's it's important.

[fjh80]

Thank you for responding.
I never thought about the view of having the same name as your children. You've given me another perspective. Thank you.

[alice55]

You're welcome :)
Really? That's surprising it's always one of the first reasons a woman change her name in my country.

[fjh80]

what country is that?

[alice55]

France

[FinalVow]

I did put it below but the tradition of taking the mans name is a bit dark and does have a slight negative connotation depending on how you look at it. As most people know when this tradition started women had next to no rights if any at all. by taking her husbands name a woman was able to "obtain" rights she would not have otherwise namely those surrounding the house and welfare of the family and the families fortunes or lack there of. Over time of course it changed to being just a convenience because it was easier to do legal papers if both parties shared the same last name. Then the split name was introduced both parents kept there family name but the children were given the - of both generally it was alphabetical though sometimes male female or female male depending on gender of child. I think traditions are a wonderful thing as long as people understand the true nature and origins of them so as to not try and recreate the circumstances in today's time.

[FinalVow]

@girl_with_questionz when did I say I want a spineless obedient wife? also you are adorable thinking guns are needed for self defense also I find you mildly amusing with those insults. Also why get a license for a gun when I can go to the home depot across the street and get the materials to build a gun for less than 50 bucks. people like me suffer from people like you a 15 year old child incapable of respect and even a modicum of self control. No you don't get "shit" done unless we counting your homework or summer reading. You see like most people of your age you think you are all that. Please explain why you would need a gun to stop a robber in your own home? or better yet explain why you can't talk to the robber? how about distract him? trick him? you say you don't think violence is always the answer but your first example which you could have used to prove that statement you instead used to prove that you are hypocritical by saying they are necessary for self defense. not true tho

[girl_with_questionz]

Sounds really dumb to me. Why dont you take her name? Or do you not really love her and respect her?

To me, "traditional" things are usually stupid and mean spirited. Like your title "TAKE MY NAME!" You dont care how she feels, you dont even want to have a conversation about it you just want to tell someone what to do. That's why I do like people with you're kind of attitude.

Go ahead and berate me, tell me to shut up and that i'm too young to be listened to and to, but you're still fading out everywhere. No one wants to be traditional anymore because its just another word for oppressive.

[FinalVow]

There is a difference between tradition and oppression however that is not important at this time. but as a base line traditions are things that were passed from family to family, mother to daughter, father to son, for years and years and years. Example silverware (not the steel crap we use nowadays the little plates, saucers, bowls, knives forks etc. valuing hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the age of the family. passed from the parent to the eldest child in a family). Not going to lie many people don't realize that the tradition behind taking the mans name is because when it started women had no rights taking your husbands name actually gave a woman some rights at least surrounding certain issues. I think tradition is an amazing thing though there are parts of it I don't agree with. Also should point out that legally it is obscenely hard for a man to take his soon to be wife's last name. Possible though

[girl_with_questionz]

@FinalVow stainless steel utensils are stronger and don't tarnish. They're better in every way just like all of modern advancements. The only reason people pass down antique junk is for nostalgia, same goes for your ideals in my opinion. We traded leeching onto a man for our rights by fighting for equal protection and freedom under constitutions. That's our stainless steel to your shitty silver. Deal with it.

[FinalVow]

actually the reason for stainless steel utensils was cheaper to make and silver shortage but sure whatever. Also it isn't nostalgia reasons you pass them down. I don't know how old your family is but my family has been around since the 13th century on my dads side and the 15th century on my moms side. both are direct descendants to royal families England on my dads side and french on my moms side. The silver ware has been passed down through my family for 632 years and currently resides with my dad passed down from his dad and from his dads mother etc. The silverware set honestly is priceless if I am being blunt but that is unimportant. It is a symbol of my families house. oh and by the way you ever heard of a dowry? that was a mother to daughter thing. consisted of silver (weird obsession they had I know) silk stuffs, linens and sheets (basically the things a woman required to run a household (btw an intact set of those is non existent as far as I know though would be priceless as well)

[FinalVow]

as was the tradition back then (now that was a dumb tradition a household needs both husband and wife to run)) a tradition that you may find interesting was when seeking to marry a woman a man would first have to ask permission from the father and mother as well as provide something to show he was serious things like cows bulls, pigs, goats, donkeys, various things of his profession smithed items from a smith. hand crafted things from a carpenter etc. why? because a mother would only pass on her dowry to her daughter if her daughter was marrying and if it was serious which was why the man had to make a very good impression because without those things the household would have been doomed. the traditions you scorn and belittle and insult while flawed were so fundamental to the survival of the human race that they entrusted the most important piece with women... the dowry

[girl_with_questionz]

@FinalVow like I give a fuck about your stupid silver. Show me an AR-15 with night vision optics circa this fucking millennia and maybe I'll care. Your ancient gob shovels serve one purpose and that's to put food in your mouth. I can get spoons and forks that do the same thing for 50 cents at walmart so your priceless precious silver might as well be fishing weights for all they're actually worth.

You're taking pride in your family and turning it into this stupid obsession with everything nostalgic, regardless of whether it's actually reasonable or useful. Get over yourself.

[FinalVow]

well clearly you are too deluded and stuck up to get educated I tried. Though the assumptions are cute shows that you are 100% your age (more accurately a bit younger but whatever) It truly is disappointing how shallow society has become. Tell someone a huge piece of history and they still keep there head firmly shoved up there asshole like there asshole is a hat. Also if you are so deluded you believe violence is a good thing I am truly saddened to be on the same planet as you violence has never been the answer as proven by the multitude of violent conflicts and unneeded bloodshed throughout history which have done a grand total of nothing as we travel ever onward towards the point of our own self destruction. History is written so those with the will might realize certain enviable truths and change the course of the future by changing how we interact with our planet and those around us. We can not hope to survive as a race if we continue as we have been as you may soon learn.

[girl_with_questionz]

@FinalVow I don't think violence is always the answer, but guns are still fucking cool and necessary for self defense and for getting rid of pests like coyotes. Hell of lot more useful than your silver trinkets, which would just make you more likely to get robbed than if you were a licensed gun owner. Maybe you could throw your forks at an intruder and hope they dont kill you? Or shine light off a spoon and hope it distracts a wild animal from killing your pets? Anyway, you have no concept of practicality, and it's people like you who would suffer if not for people like me who know how to get shit done. Have fun with your dowries and spineless obedient wife.

[bamesjond0069]

If you don't like tradition why even get married in the first place?

[fjh80]

@girl_with_questionz
"TAKE MY NAME!" I think you're reading too much into the title. I don't know how to explain, how titles work, but I could suggest you read some of the other responses, and judge how they react to the post. So far, they seemed to understand where I'm coming from.

The post, is largely about tradition. "Why don't you take her name?" If you read the post, you'd have read the part where I said, if that was the tradition, then I would be fore that.

Too young to be listened to... No I wouldn't say that, but I'd say that, by the same token, the rest of us are not too old to be listened to. With age comes experience, and knowledge.

You speak a lot about oppression, but that has nothing to do with the post. I don't know if I know how to make you understand the importance of tradition, but if you decide (with out understanding it) that's it's a bad thing, then you're really only robbing yourself.

[fjh80]

To say that I don't want to have a conversation, when you're responding to me making a post and starting said conversation is... bizarre.

Despite what they might teach you in school, or where ever you're learning this attitude, men do love, and respect women. You don't have to accept traditions, but at least understand them before you attack them.

"Oppressive" is a word used most by extreme leftists. Please understand the truth about society before you judge it. I promise, when you graduate and join the world, you'll see it in a different light. You'll see it for all it's good, and all it's bad. Nothing is absolute.

In the modern "western" world, there is less oppression and crime than in all of human history. We have our problems, but equality has never been so prevalent as it is now.

[fjh80]

@FinalVow I agree. Taking the mans name, had different meaning in the past. Today it's different.
We can keep the good, and learn from the bad.

[happyhippo]

I really don't see how having the same name makes you a family. I see your point, but I don't think it's that important. And if it's about being with the same name, would you take hers?
Also one more question - do you mind if she keeps her old name, but also takes yours (with a - between the names)?

[fjh80]

Tradition plays a large part in it. If it was tradition to take her name, then I wouldn't give it a second thought.
As I am traditional, and I accept the "traditionally" given responsibility of carrying on the name. In may case, I would see it as betraying my dad if I didn't carry the name til death. I should mention that my dad, is my step dad, and he accepted me as his son and... well I could go on. My respect for him is more than I could express.

I should remind you that I did mention that, her refusal to take my name wouldn't have to be a deal breaker if I loved her enough to share my life with her. I'm not a fan of the hyphenating/double barrelling. Though as a compromise, I could accept it... actually the more I think about it while i write this response, I think I would still appreciate her taking my name, even if only that far.

[fjh80]

Another way to say it, is;
As romantic gestures appeal to women, and are commonly made my men for their girlfriends, I think the name thing, would be a gesture made by a woman to a man. I guess that's the romantic part of me.

But in the end, when two people get married, they're creating a family. A family should have a name, and by her taking his name she's committing 100% to the family that she's starting. That doesn't mean she's turning her back on her parents and siblings.

Notice, that every team, group, or community has a name. Accepting that name is a way of committing to that team. Look at any team, or group around you. If you're part of that team, or group, you take the name, and you represent that group. It's the same, or at least a similar concept.

Anyway, remember, this is simply my opinion. It's not something I want to push on anyone, it's something I want to share, and get responses to, to understand other views.

[acooke-13]

Whilst I get your point, and I will most definitely take my mans name, it isn't a tradition in every country.
But it could mean more to you than another man, who may not care if she takes his name or not, it's more about preference than tradition.
My cousin gets married next week and is double-barrelling!

[fjh80]

It could mean more to me than to other men...
I totally accept that, and I hope I made that clear in my post.
It sounds like you'll be taking his name because you choose to. That, to me, is how it should be. To do it in any other way, takes away from the "gesture". I don't know if that's the word...

i'm saying i respect your choice and why you're choosing it

[ScaryCool]

The poor businesses and DMVs of tomorrow.

"Actually, it's Jennifer Lynn Craighead Hyphen Aldiaz."

DMV: "Thanks for being 'that' person."

But seriously, if you let the world tell you that everything has a negative connotation, you're not going to enjoy a single thing.
I feel like it'd just really make things a lot less simple than they couldve been with one last name. Like filling out shit which we do all in life and fitting it all on one line even?

[fjh80]

"Thanks for being 'that' person." LMAO

I like the way you think.

[ScaryCool]

Lol Thank you.

[coralee]

For a long time I wanted to take my future husband's name. I was hoping to move up in the alphabet. My last name is a royal pain in the neck. But, after the death of my paternal grandfather I've grown really attached to it. Sorry future husband but I'm not losing that connection to my grandpa who meant the world to me. It may be just a superficial connection but it means a lot to me. My name is who I am. It carries weight and I'm not giving it up due to an outdated tradition.

[fjh80]

I agree and disagree...

But, I love the idea of changing your name to move up in the alphabet. If that's not a good reason to change your name, I don't know what it. lmao

[coralee]

That's easy for you to say when you aren't the one being asked to give up a part of your identity. You claim it is to make you "family" what about your future wife's family? Why should she give up that attatchment while you get to keep yours firmly attatched?

[Pamina]

"Just because there was bad in the past, should we disregard the good?"

No. We should learn from the bad and take the good with us. My problem with traditionalism is when the arguments for a tradition are circular and when new alternatives are disregarded or even judged.

In my understanding of a free society, traditions and new alternatives co-exist peacefully. If someone doesn't want to follow traditions, that should be completely fine. And if someone wants to keep up tradtions for themselves, that should be fine too.

You do sound like you have that attitude.

[Pamina]

I'd like to add though, that I think it's important for tradionalists to reflect on the social origins and implications of their traditions. It's completely fine if you want to keep your name, but the tradition it stems from is not exactly positive one.

Also, why would a woman not be serious if she doesn't want to take your name? That would only make sense if she is a traditional person. But if she isn't, then her not wanting to take your name says nothing about how serious she is about marriage and family.

[fjh80]

That's pretty deep stuff. : )
"We should learn from the bad and take the good with us."
I'm going to use that.

So, yes, I think you and I may think alike. Though I think traditions are important, carrying them on, or embracing them, should be something done by choice. I think being forced to accept them, takes away from the importance.
I wouldn't want a woman to take my name because she felt forced. I'd want her to want to. It would be an incredible gesture to me.

"but the tradition it stems from is not exactly positive one."
This is true. If I'm not mistaken, it more closely resembled ownership. If anyone knows more about it, please correct me.
However, it has evolved.

As for the "why wold a woman not be serious" question.
It might be something that men and women see differently.
A woman taking me name would help me believe that she intended to be my partner for life. I should add that I have my insecurities.

[fjh80]

Keeping her family name would be like saying she's trying to commit to two families. Why is that an issue? It's an issue because, in committing to her own family that she's creating should take priority, considering that she's going to bear the children. It doesn't mean she had to turn her back on her own family.

I'm not sure, I'm getting my point across properly here, it's proving difficult to explain my view.
I understand that my point, in reverse falls apart because (as far as i know) there's no equivilent guesture for a man to make.

Maybe, in a society where men usually make the gestures to show their love to women, this would be the kind of gesture that would be meaningful to men.

Also, you're still correct. It might not mean that a woman is less serious, and if I loved a woman enough to marry her, it probably wouldn't be a deal breaker.

Again, this is all opinion on my part, and I have put a lot of thought into it.

One name = One unit... (or team if you like)

[Logan27]

Most women, if they love the guy and intend to spend the rest of their life together, would happily take the guys name. It just makes sense. You are creating a new family and the family should all have the same name. Makes perfect sense. If you a guy and you give up you're name - you are a pathetic loser. Simple as.

[fjh80]

wow... it took me like 5 paragraphs to say that.

[Lostranza]

I dont really care about the name taking. I actually think about the implications about that decision. I think that societal conventions around this topic are very interesting to examine. I think that traditions should be respected as long as we understand them and are concious about them.

[JimRSmith]

My gal is published under her maiden name, so she's going to keep it for professional purposes, but we will use mine for social purposes.

She'd be destroying her 'brand' if she dropped her surname professionally, at this stage.

[fjh80]

Sounds fair to me.
It sounds like you have a good thing going.

[CubsterShura]

No one takes the husbands name where I live and I never knew that it's a thing people even do. And wow, just changing name means being a good traditional wife? Is it that easy? Unity in family comes from harmony not name changing. You could have a woman that changes her surname and y'all could still be bickering and dividing all the time.

It never made sense to me. And I will never see my husband more than my parents, so I would not alter my name that is given by my parents either. -_-

[fjh80]

What the hell are you talking about? -_-

If you read the post, you should understand that it doesn't have to have that big of an impact. It's ONE aspect of a marriage. No one said that it would make a marriage succeed or fail.

I get that you want to look enlightened, but you're really just coming across ignorant. It's like you're read someone elses post, and then wrote your response under my post. The problems you mentioned have NOTHING to do with what I posted.

No one is saying that you have to change your name. Read the post again, and in stead of thinking about what you want it to say, think about what the writer is trying to say.

Also, why would you marry a man, if you're going to spend more time with your parents than with him. Do they spend more time with your grandparents than they do with you?
Okay, you're only 17, that's fine. Understand this; marrying someone means creating a family. YOUR own family. Name stuff aside, you better be committed to your own family.

[CubsterShura]

You actually believe that marrying means leaving your own family? Does a man have to stop prioritizing his parents after marriage?

[fjh80]

I never said that getting married meant leaving your family. Making your own family doesn't mean abandoning your family (parents and siblings).

I don't know what can be going on in your head. You read something, but you want to act rightous, or enlightened, so you decide that what you're reading is saying something that it's not.

When a man gets married, he should prioritize the family he's creating through the union. That doesn't mean that he turns his back on his parents, but he is responsible for taking care of his wife and kids above all else.
I assume that your parents didn't choose the well being of others over your well being.

You should honour and respect your parents, yes, absolutely, but when start your own family "unit" that becomes your purpose. You CAN do both.

[CubsterShura]

Then what on earth are you trying to tell us in your myTake? Because it seriously sounds like you are wanting a tradition for the sake of it now.

[ENTP_EMO]

Hi traditional man.
Thanks for writing this,
You would hate me LOL. I'm your polar opposite. The guy who loves constant change. Not everyone is like you. I'd say 15% of the population is like you.

Nice mytake anyway.

[fjh80]

I wouldn't hate you. I don't have an issue with opposing opinions. I'm not crazy about this particular point of view, it's really the kind of thing that I care about for my own purposes. That's the simple response anyway.

Really though? 15%? I don't believe that only 15% of men want women to take their names when they get married. I'm sure it's gotta be over 50%. I don't know how much exactly, but 15 seems way too small.

[ENTP_EMO]

It could be the age gap.
I think i had an image of someone in their early-late 20s then I wrote that

[Anonymous]

I will never marry a woman who doesn't WANT to take my last name, and not just because I feel strongly about us and our kids sharing the same last name. Most importantly, because of what it says about her priorities, her world view and especially her view of men and marriage.

If a woman doesn't want to take my last name, it tell me more than enough about her to know she's not someone I want to commit the rest of my life to and who I want to be the mother of my children.

[Shutupman]

Why don't you take her last name then? What does that say about your commitment? Will you be a bad cheating husband then?

[fjh80]

Very interesting response.
There's been a very interesting difference in responses from the girls to the guys.
For the most part, people are for the name change, or at least understand it, but the reasons differ.

[fjh80]

@Shutupman I feel like you're missing the point.

The discussion is about sharing a name. Going with the mans name is the default, or tradition.
I'm sure if I took the time, I could look into it further.

[lizziepooh03]

My honest thought is that a woman should take the man's name.

And if a woman thinks that means he owns her, then she has a lot more issues than taking a man's name.

[fjh80]

I like the way you think, and I think you hit the nail on the head.
I think it shows that you're serious about becoming a family.

Also, you're absolutely right. If he thinks he owns her, it's a sign of bigger problems. You're not a coffee table.

Being under one name, I think makes you a team, or a unit. As she takes responsibility for taking care of him, he also takes responsibility for taking care of her.

[lizziepooh03]

I agree, "Being under one name, I think makes you a team, or a unit. As she takes responsibility for taking care of him, he also takes responsibility for taking care of her. "

What you fail to understand is this understanding between men and women happened way longer than you were ever think in a blink of the eye. You want to pretend it did not happen then. You may want to pretend you were the first to understand. But you weren't.

My parents married in the 50s in this denigrated group. But my parents, out of every parent team I have ever met, understoodd how a family worked. My parents disagreed. My parents took their disagreement away from their children. My parents came out of their room with one voice. I never knew which parent originally disagreed because when my parents came out of their room, one voice was heard.

If it only mattered that my dad's voice was heard, there never would have been cause for my parents to step into another room to duke it out. And duke it out they did

[lizziepooh03]

And one voice came out - the voice of the family.

Despite what people think, even when men dominated relationships, they never dominated relationships. To think women have been helpless against men is a folly. Men are often helpless against women but not the other way around... except in bad things.

[lilaqua]

I probably won't, but I am unlikely to get married in the first place. The "ownership" aspect really weirds me out but also my parents chose my first name to sound good with my last, so it works as a unit. By itself I actually hate my first name so i'm not taking someone else's to make it worse. I'd probably hyphenate my child's last name.

[Oram52]

So would also expect a ring, as that could also be precieved as a sign of ownership.
What if your future husband says no hyphenate kids take my last name.

[lilaqua]

@Oram52 but, both parties get rings not just one, also I'd be pretty happy to forgo the whole ring thing. I'd also really doubt I get with someone that said no to hyphenation in the first place but if I couldn't convince them i'd actually get really angry, especially since if no one takes my name it'll die out completely.

[Oram52]

Hmm I guess I can understand your perspective. Imagine kids have hyphenated name, their future partner also has hyphenated name. So what happens when they get married, how do they decide which parts to hyphenate and which ones to drop?

[lilaqua]

@Oram52 That's an issue I know, but tbh I'd rather have massively long names than just you can't have your mum's name because TRADITION. Heck my boyfriend has decided to get his name changed to his mum's last name.

[fjh80]

From the perspective of how your name sounds, I actually understand what you're saying.

The "ownership" thing... you really gotta get that out of your head. You're not coffee table.
Marriage isn't about ownership, its about (or should be about) starting a family.

If you choose not to be married ever, then that's you're choice. More power too you, but don't let yourself believe that it's something that it's not.

[fjh80]

@Oram52 a very very good point