Should the words 'For better or for worse" in wedding vows be replaced with "for better and for growth"?

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Updates

1 y

Okay I think people are misunderstanding this post... No where am I saying don't stay for better or worse... These aren't even "my words" rather the words of a counselor to a woman who's husband cheated 5 times, then was accusing her of cheating, tracking her phone, sniffing her underwear, turns out she wasn't cheating, and when he asked why she stayed,: she said for better or worse..
To which he said that's not what those words should mean, he said they should be changed..

[xJeremyx]

Personally, I would prefer:

"I, (insert name),

In taking (insert name) to be my Husband/Wife, by law,

Pledge to cherish, to care for, and to protect (insert name), and hereby truthfully affirm that my loyalty and fullest support toward (insert name) shall be unwavering and true:

Through prosperity and growth, through trials and tribulation, Through health and illness, through joy and sorrow, for better or for worse,

I, (insert name), hereby declare that I shall, under all conditions, wholly and fully, love and grow with (insert name), till death do us apart."

Something along those lines.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

That's what a "real marriage" should be! And the vows as well.. This post wasn't meant to say don't stick together through the ups and downs... More to point out, that's better achieved when two people work together and grow together as a couple. Not just people thinking they can be their worst self..

[xJeremyx]

I dont think that was what for worse meant, I believe it referred to situations faced by one partner or the other where things go wrong, and the other partner is there for them.

[xJeremyx]

But i did notice one mistake in my response, how the heck is the wife supposed to protect the husband XD

Maybe for her, "and to care for" would be a better idea.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I know that and you know that.. But some people think they means they can cheat and their spouse should stay... Or in cases of physical abuse.. I was young when I got married, and I should of left way sooner but I took my vows/promises seriouslly but I wasn't going to stay in a physically abuse marriage where the abuse was escalating... Second marriage, yes we both honored the for better our worse for richer or poorer in sickness and health till death did us part

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Excuse all the typos 🤦🏼‍♀️ lol

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Women can protect men too you know..

[xJeremyx]

I meant physically. I dont want my partner jumping into situations that could get her killed, for me. Yes its nice, yes its romantic in a way, but if she is physically unable to help, id rather she ran away and called the police.

But sure, women can defend their husbands.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Women are physically capable of holding and shooting a gun... Well, my eyesight a little off🤣

[xJeremyx]

Guns are prohibited here.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

They're not here..

[xJeremyx]

Well, not everwhere is like the US. Plus, if she is walking around with a knife in her bag I would not feel good at all.

But if she had pepper spray, maybe that could help.

I personally am very non-confrontational, so I won't really get into dangerous situations. If someone were to rob me at knifepoint, Ill just let them take my wallet, and make a police report after. Not worth risking injury.

[Goforit1010]

Absolutely not! Just because situations get worse, doesn't mean that's a "growth" event. Kids doing drugs, or worse getting killed is NOT a "growth" event. Getting news you or your spouse has terminal cancer doesn't qualify either. Having your savings wiped out due to unforeseen events doesn't mean "growth".

These are all possible events that can and do happen during a marriage. What you're vowing is to remain WITH someone else through the best of times and especially the worst! Anyone can do "richer", or "in health", or "better" times standing on their heads! It the "poorer", the "sickness", or "worse" times that will try your patience. It will test your resolve. It will PROVE to the other person you're there no matter what.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Read the update

[Goforit1010]

She's correct. The "worse" part hit them and she was willing to deal with that ugliness all the way to death. However, Biblically, infidelity is one of the reasons God allows for divorce. Does that mean you should divorce? That's between the couple, but if they decide on staying together, whomever cheated needs some extremely close watching and testing to PROVE they're not going back to that. It also is needed to rebuild the broken trust.

Your update is just one instance of "worse". Marriages suffer all sorts of those. When you say those marriage vows, that "worse" stuff is included. Both of them need to KNOW the other one is willing and able to work through the "worse" parts also. You go through life together, not just until it gets a little rough.

[Emiliamazing]

We wrote our own vows, and I really like your take. It’s far more positive. We all go through down times and hard times where we want to give up, but the goal is always to work through the problem which generally makes a married couple very proud. Working through any problem with your significant other, whether you are married or is a Great Mountain to conquer.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Love your answer

[Emiliamazing]

We have had some wonderful influencers in our lives. And we remind each other of that when one of us is out of tune

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

That's great!

[Emiliamazing]

I think I might have to take your new interpretation and spend some time with the embroidery needle. Really like it!

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Actually not my interpretation something a man (counselor) on a show I was watching about cheating partners said it and I agreed with what he said..

[dustybiker]

I don’t know. So many men on GaG feel it’s their right to force themselves on their wives… it’s surprisingly pretty fitting in those circumstances. At least until the inevitable prison sentence and the divorce.

[dustybiker]

And forgot therapy. (😁 I was in a deep mood when I first arrived.. damn)

[TonyMetal___86]

If these words are sacred than they can't be changed but maybe we can add to it but not change it and if it ain't sacred than it can be changed...

Anyways what's wrong with the word for the better or worse 🤔

A married couple should stick together in their ups and downs! Actually you know if someone truly loves you when your down and he fights with you and will never leave until everything is over!

It's not like i'm with you only in your happy days but also with you in your sad days...

That's what love is all about, no matter what happens, we are in the same vessel, what happens to you happens to me, it's either we succeed together or fail together, live together or die together... etc

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

That's what it's SUPPOSED to mean.. But people misconstrue and misuse that to their advantage... Person gets caught cheating "But you promised to stay with me for better or worse"... Cheaters don't get they walked out of the relationship the minute they cheated and let someone else in

[TonyMetal___86]

True! Even the bible who mentions that divorce can only occur for the reason of cheating and cheating is a sin!
People think that it's okay and bla bla bla...
They do not know what their doing 😏

[TonyMetal___86]

@Brainsbeforebeauty sniff the underwear! 🥴 why would someone sniff an underwear? I never understand why would someone does such creepy things unless he was mentally ill...
I'll only sniff my muffins to see if it contains a rich vanilla flavor and for sure will sniff the spongy forehead after taking a bath so i have a good sleep cause her spongy forehead releases all kinds of flowers odors and makes me feel like i'm in heaven 😴

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

🤣🤣 I guess I do smell good after shower.. It's the lotion I use.. my friend's daughter told me I smelled so good after I got out of the shower the one day, but she said it kinda creepy😱🤣🤣 made me🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♀️🤣

[TonyMetal___86]

Haha the sponge is always on the run mode 🤣🤣
See girls can be creepy too 🤡

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Oh I know they can. Never said otherwise.. Just hate when people lump any gender as the same. Like so many on here do🙄 well, and one idiot I knew IRL... But that's one of the reasons couldn't be friends with someone like that.. Try to act like they do intelligent.. but too dumb to see, no two people are the same I I'm not like every other female, I'm like ME

[TonyMetal___86]

I know i know, you're a sponge can't be like others haha
Anyways there was a movie where psychotic nurse stole a new born baby from a hospital and gave a really hard time for the parents and destroyed their lives, the story is long and how she looked is creepy and since then i knew how much creepy women can be, watched it when i was a teenager and i used to watch the ID channel "investigation discovery" about crimes of love and passion, also love triangles and how women were able to kill a big number of men in a cold blood or used other men to do their dirty work for a free sexual relationship in return...
Too many true crime stories, believe me between a psycho male killer and a psycho female killer, the man ain't never a match with women cause the women's ways to kill is very creepy...
Can't believe how much the male victims were so dumb and never felt a thing or where suspicious and were like string puppets in the hands of their murderers

[ohsheeT]

Oh know you don't dare do that. lol
My luck I would get hooked up with a girl get married and it would say that and she would take it as it meant she could eat four chickens six cakes for pizzas two bottles of Coke and within 6 months she said I was just following our vows of growth LOL

[Jamie05rhs]

Ohshee, you are HILARIOUS as always!! 😂

[ohsheeT]

No! It's true that's my luck and then she would have a twin sister who eats just as much you probably want to have an affair with me I don't dare come home smelling like chicken

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

🤣🤣🤣

[Static_In_The_Attic]

“For better or for worse" is something written in the marriage contract & to be honest I wouldn’t change a thing because if that doesn’t work out “Til Death Do Us Part” will.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Hope you talking"natural death' not killing your spouse🧐😂

[Static_In_The_Attic]

Good thing I’m not married! Hahaha.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I'll have to agree there😂

[Bricealan]

That would be ideal, if couples would 'Grow" together. I know some marriages that have lasted for many, many years before one spouse died. My wife deserted me for another man after only a few years. SHE had been married many times and me only once, to her.

[Bricealan]

Thanks for your comment to "haha" about insulting comments. I also told her the same. Sad.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Yeah pay people like that no mind.. They yet to come off so intelligent and know everything but if you can't get your point across our disagree without insulting people, well that don't make people look so smart, more immature

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

And sorry your wife deserted you🤗

[EmbraceThePain]

I do like the "for worse" a lot more than growth. To me, "for worse" implies sticking by someone's side despite how tough obstacles or situations become. I think everyone can appear kind, tough, loyal, and trustworthy in comfortable, ideal, and good situations but is this a test of who they really are? I personally want to see how a woman is when things get tougher.

[USLegionary]

You can more or else say anything for your vows. I think for better or worse is the best possible vow because your basically giving thd most serious promise that you will stand by the other person faithfully no matter what happens. In other words if you get seriously ill or times get hard you will be there and never betray that person. Of course vows mean nothing these days as few people have any honor.

[andreasderjuengere]

The entire thing needs to be updated.

Suggestion:

"I, _____, take you, _____, to be my wedded wife/husband/or whatever you identify, or will later choose to identify as,

to be continuously associated within the legal and moral obligations of our surrounding culture,

coming into effect by 10 a. m. today,

for any condition described in the prenup as attached below,

to love and to cherish you equally to how you love and cherish myself,

till death do us part; or a competitor; or chance; or a change in political views; or obesity; or sexual habits; or any other occurrence that voids our entry expectations, agreements and conditions,

according to the Government's holy legislation; and assuming God's sanction to do so,

and to this I pledge you my faith for the time being.

- - - -

Needless to say that I have no intentions to marry ever again, I guess :D

[rip999]

What in the fuck 😂😂😂😂

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

With those vows, that's a good thing you don't🤣🤣

[rip999]

With those vows what's the point of getting married? It's useless at that point

[andreasderjuengere]

''Those vows'' after all - are just rituals.
But with a latest human generation advocating ''newthink'' and ''newspeak'' many things are now turned upside down. No complaint - ''we'' need to evolve. But evolution also has a tendency to make some things that don't work... extinct.
My ''suggestion'' is of course pure sarcasm and criticism.
I do cherish the ''old'' meaning of getting married. But under the ''new'' conditions the meaningfulness of a marriage has become more of an economic transaction than an arrangement between two people for life.
Therefore I now boycott the present concept of practicing marriage, and instead replace it by an honest (and sincere) ... private promise.

[SaoirseS]

A couple's vows can be anything they want them to be :-) That would have worked for me. One thing that didn't make it into our vows was a promise to agree on the thermostat setting.

[Bricealan]

I promise to put the toilet seat down.

[Ghostluck]

No. This is something that most people don't get. Marriage is a RELIGIOUS right. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with people who don't believe in God. Yet, people who do not believe in God, want to get married. It has nothing to do with you if you don't believe in God. Period. It is a Religious ritual performed before God and Church to signify to God this is the person you have chosen to be at your side... for eternity.

All these nonreligious people wanting to get married, change words that have nothing to do with them, pisses me off beyond belief.

The words are words derived from religion. They will not be changing.

[RangerBlue22]

They already changed the definition of marriage as a union between a “man and woman” to anything that wants to marry anything a few years ago. So does this surprise you?

[Ghostluck]

@RangerBlue22 Not really, no. lol

[mrmonogamous]

No. Leave it as it is unless you’re writing your own vows. I’ve been HAPPILY MARRIED for 34 years and going strong!

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Congrats 🎉

[belle_kai]

Both could be applied. I do like for better or for worse because it means the person promises to stick by you through good and bad. Sadly majority of marriages don't keep their promises.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Very true and I agree it's a sad fact

[Haha456]

americans make the worst spouses. take a look at your divorce rates. 50% of married couples end up divorcing at some point in life. the reason is because you don't see marriage as sticking together "for better or for worse". you only stick whenever you feel like it. bad news for you is that marriage is not for those who only stick by when times are good but ditch when times are bad.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I didn't say don't stick together through good and bad... But that term gets misconstrued.. So if the worse is your husband constantly cheating or constantly physically abuse , they should stay in that marriage? See I stayed through the worse I took those vows to mean, when we argued, when things got rocky, when he got sick, but the more people work on growth in their relationships, some of those "worse" might not even become a thing

[Haha456]

so you're justifying half of all marriages ending in divorce because of cheating or being physically abusive? take a look at other cultures where their marriages actually last. they actually take their vows seriously unlike americans who divorce upon the slightest whims.

[Haha456]

the reality is, whenever American couples encounter problems. it almost always gets worse. it never gets better. and the reason is because americans see their spouses as "the ultimate soulmate" or not. they dont see marriage as imperfect or their spouses as imperfect. they don't see marriage is a journey where two people make it work. but rather americans see marriage is meeting the "ultimate perfect person who fits them like a puzzle". when americans divorce, they think its because they haven't married the right person. Reality is, there is no right person. there is no perfect person. there is no soulmate. it really just boils down to how much you want to make things work.

[Haha456]

I would never marry an American man. divorce is not looked down upon in American culture. breaking up and destroying families is not seen as a bad thing. your wife gained 50 pounds after birthing 4 kids? divorce her. your wife is suffering from postpartum depression and you're not as happy as you once were before you married her? divorce her. your feelings towards your wife changed? divorce her despite the fact that you already have 3 kids together and a huge mortgage under your name. Encountered problems during your marriage? you don't like to compromise, you like to think that you are right and your wife is the only problem.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Exactly, and why said growth... A marriage doesn't start that way, it becomes that way with love, commitment...
But let's be clear, are you saying a woman leaving an abusive marriage is wrong? Because tell that to the women that DID stay but then were killed by their spouse... Or to the kids who grow up in abusive household's

[Bricealan]

Margaret Mead, one of the greatest social researchers said that she was surprised the Marriages lasted 20 years, as that is a LONG time to be married to a person. People change

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Bricealan but people can change and grow together

[Haha456]

@Bricealan

it does not matter if people change. when you take an oath to be with someone forever, you need to take the oath seriously. If you want to ditch immediately after your spouse changes, you should not be getting married. In other cultures, marriage is not seen as a joy ride but rather a union where two people take care of each other forever. You, as an American, do not understand this because this is not a part of American culture.

[Haha456]

@Bricealan

being married "a long time" does not justify a divorce. You have forgotten that marriage was supposed to be a FOREVER commitment, not a temporary commitment for just 20 years then you want to move on and remarry someone else. people with your type of mentality is why kids live with mom while seeing dad once a month. Americans simply do not have any sort of family values. Family is not important in your culture. there is no cohesiveness, everyone is only out for themselves. Even adult children do not take care of their parents in your culture.

[Haha456]

@Brainsbeforebeauty

lets be honest, how many spouses are physically abusive? do you really expect people to believe that half of all your marriages end up in divorce because of physically abusive monsters?

[Haha456]

@Brainsbeforebeauty

im guessing you're saying everyone in america is physically abusive which is why your marriages cannot last.

[Haha456]

if you want to rotate spouses every 10 years, I suggest never getting married. all of you idiots have no clue what marriage entails.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@haha456 if you start insulting people on my posts I will remove replies... And my second marriage lasted 20 years until he passed away, so back yourself up there sweetie..
Again I never said don't be there for better or worse... Once again you're missing the point that relationships/marriages need people to realize that yeah people change, but people have to learn to grow and change together or they will change and grow apart...
And stop stereotyping all Americans as the same...
But thank you for your reply

[Bricealan]

What you are saying is the way a marriage should be, but reality is somewhat different than the ideal. My parents were married until my mother died. My father was a neglectful, mean and, later in life, a borderline alcoholic. She stayed with him until she died, although she should have divorced him years and years before, but she could noy support herself and two young boys.
There is an example of 'til death do us part", but her life, (and I know it because I helped her all I could) was a living hell, as she married before she was 20 years old, and married the first man she met.
Hard for me to understand you making a 'generalized" statement, that " American's make the worst spouses". You make an "across the board" statement that wants to encompass, all of American society, and that is simply not true. I don't like the statistics that are held by the Bureau of Marriage and Divorce Statistics, either, but to hold the whole of American society as an example of American's being unfit as spouses is simply not accurate, reasonable, or responsible.
I do not know what country you are from, but I am certain it does not have a population of in excess of 375 million and as DIVERSE as this country has come to be.

[Bricealan]

Sadly, Brains, many grow apart, rather than together.

[Bricealan]

👍👍👍

[Bricealan]

Now, you are being insulting by your comment about my "mentality" when you know nothing about my mentality. My wife deserted me in the middle of the night, and I married her with the same intention, 'forever". Please don't say things about someone you don't even know a thing about.

[Haha456]

@Brainsbeforebeauty

you don't realize how fucked up your culture is. americans simply do not have any loyalty, or self sacrifice as a part of their values. In other cultures, people get married because they want to serve and care for erach other forever. In america, people get married caring mainly about what they have to gain from their partners rather than what they can give to their partners.

If "people growing apart" justifies your immensely high divorce rates, maybe you're better off never getting married. What you do not understand is that marriage is a forever commitment. Its not a commitment ONLY IF... you can still look good after having 5 kids or ONLY IF you still remain the same exact same person 40 years from now... ONLY IF you can always make me happy.

Marriage is supposed to be a forever commitment. Its not a "I only stay whenever I feel like it". If you want to stay only whenever you feel like it, stay boyfriend and girlfriend. Marriage is only for those who stick together permanently.

Divorce is supposed to be an absolute LAST RESORT such as if your life is in danger or you're with an abusive partner and you've tried everything to fix it but nothing worked. Divorce should not be as easy as handing out tic tacs. This is what you do not understand.

[Haha456]

@Bricealan

there's nothing that justifies a 50% divorce rate. if so many people are just gonna divorce over the dumbest reasons, then why get married in the first place? there IS A REASON why marriage simply does not work in your culture. This is not the case in other cultures. Take a look at india, china, russia, ukraine- none of them have a divorce rate like yours. All throughout history, divorce had never been common until over the past few decades. If other people can do marriage well, why can't you?

[Haha456]

@Bricealan @Brainsbeforebeauty

a lot about marriage is having someone that you can rely on in your times of need. If you're gonna divorce every time any little thing bothers you, you will just die alone , all neglected , you will have nobody to help you when you need it. Nobody who would care to check up on you when you need it. You may claim you have siblings. Your siblings do not care about you. Their have their own families , children, spouses to care for ahead of you. You are not a priority to them. Your needs will not be nearly as important as their spouse / kids' needs. They will not care to check up on you as regularly as you want them to. They will not rush to your door as fast as you want them, in a case of emergency. You will not have anybody to celebrate Christmas / Thanksgiving with unless they personally invite you. This is what a single life dying alone look like. Do you realize how many single people put their Human Resources department as their emergency contact? There are many people out there who do not have families or anyone they can rely on.

Marriage is not always about romance, flowers, unicorns and rainbows, or the magical kiss, happily after forever BS. It is about having a FAMILY, people you can rely on. You wouldn't have this sense of warmth and security if you didn't have a family.

Americans do not understand this because
family values is simply not a part of your culture.

[Smoothing]

I think it should be changed to for better or divorce. It would reflect the attitude towards marriage nowadays.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I wouldn't go that far... Wouldn't that just make people more chick to quit without trying... This post doesn't even mean people shouldn't be there for better or worse.. but there is some "worse" people shouldn't stay for, like physical abuse or adultery

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

*quick not chick🤦🏼‍♀️

[Smoothing]

I understand what you mean. Even though I already feel like people are already too quick to quit

[bzcxx]

No it shouldn’t. For better and for growth would technically mean the same thing. Growth is good and so the word “Better” already encompasses it. I think that one can add words indicating periods of growth and trials but certainly not replace the current text.
Marriage is an institution and is built on the foundation of accompanying each other on life’s journey, whether it be good or bad (for better or for worse). An ideal addition would be “for richer or for poorer”.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

for richer or poorer That was in the original wedding vows

[Snakeyes7]

I understand where you are coming from but the idea behind this vow is to not break it off at the first sign of struggle. It's meant to encourage the effort made to accept each other even though you two might not agree. Divorce was originally intended to be a last resort.

Abuse like what was said in your update was always an acceptable reason for divorce even with the vows like that.

[humanearth]

That was not even in our vows

Our vows were kinda dirty

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I'm not even gonna ask🙉😂

[humanearth]

Awww but why not

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Afraid what the answer would be 😱🤣

[NathanDavis]

I'll ask... of course

what were the vows? lol

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@NathanDavis NOOO ask on your own thread🤣🤣

[NathanDavis]

I really don't want go through this alone... lmao

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@NathanDavis sorry time for me to go to bed now, past my bedtime
🚪🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♀️🏃🏼‍♀️🤣

[NathanDavis]

luckily... he seems busy at the moment, lol

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@NathanDavis whew 😅

[humanearth]

Yeah, I was in bed sleeping its now 3am

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

And way too early for dirty vows 🤣

[humanearth]

You mean I should wash them first

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

🤣🤣🤣

[AviatorTom]

No, "Better" and "Worse" are opposites, and that's the point of the saying, that the couple should support each other when things go well, and when they don't. Why change it?

[AviatorTom]

Re: your update. I agree what the husband did is wrong and her interpretation that the words mean that she should stay is not right, but that doesn't mean they should be changed.

[Jennz6]

It wasn’t a legal marriage, but I was with a guy for a while and he said that i had to love 💕 and “OBEY”

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Yeah that obey needs to come out as well

[Jennz6]

@Brainsbeforebeauty it doesn’t matter what the vow is because they will cheat anyway.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Not all.. My husband stayed faithful for 20 years

[Jennz6]

@Brainsbeforebeauty good for you guys

[_Just_A_girl_]

Why do couples divorce when this line was in the vow?

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

Because people just recite the vows without honouring the promise they're making

[Jamie05rhs]

@Brainsbeforebeauty 🎯

No one keeps their word anymore, period!

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Jamie05rhs don't say noone... I keep mine

[_Just_A_girl_]

Shout-out to you you Brains❤️❤️❤️ show these folks

[Jamie05rhs]

@Brainsbeforebeauty You are a rare treasure!

[DJB72]

Sure. Because all anyone experiences is positive change.

Change "in sickness and in health" to "in health and victory in beauty pageants" as well.

"Til death do we part" is depressing. Let's make it "until someone cuter comes along" or "for the next five years with an optional renewal clause" like employment contracts have.

Congratulations. This is officially the most fucked up question I've seen on GAG.