Both men and women are rejecting marriage.
The thing to do to incentive marriage is to incentive children. Women don't want to sacrifice their careers to be a homemaker so having kids is out of the question. And thus marriage isn't important. But if having kids didn't require one to sacrifice their ambitions, having kids wouldn't be such a drain and marriage would have meaning again. Paid maternity and paternity leave are obvious steps to take. A robust public child care system would be obvious. But none of these things can be done for profit so people consider them socialism.
@normalice Both paid paternity and maternity leave already exist. Also looking for incentives for men to get married seeing how they are the ones who control relationships. Declining marriage rates are a direct reflection of men rejecting marriage
@normalice Tecnically it only takes one to reject and overwhelming more men are deciding not to get married. Menwhile the same percentage of woman are hoping for marriage. We've even seen an increase in woman proposing to men put of desperation.
My apologies I thought you lived in America. In America there had been a rise in woman proposing to men. Its kind of out of desperation but its become a thing as men have decided that there is little to no benifit to marriage and as u have proved no one is able to provide one for men.
@normalice No apologies necessary at least you admit you POV is based on a feeling. I'm not sure why you believe it's bad for women to propose, w/ less men choosing to get married, it only makes sense. How long have you been married for?
Oh, you must have misunderstood. I was expressing sympathy for your brain damage, nothing to do with me or my feelings beyond that sympathy. I understand how the ragetard brain would see my pointing out the fact that most marriage proposals are mutually agreed to and foam st the mouth over how they can force that to mean "its bad for women to propose," but if you ever manage to curb that rage addiction you'll probably be able to reverse at least some of the brain damage that makes you do that.
@normalice I can certainly understand your need to make decisions based off feeling. Unfortunately for you making a false statement repeatedly doesn't make it true even w/ immaturity tied in. I do find it interesting that you are advocating for an institution that even you have rejected, which only validates even more that men are rejecting marriage at a higher rate. TY
I've been proposed to four times. That would have been unheard of 50 years ago.
@normalice
Why do we want to incentivize having children? There's too many already.
@BoopBoopBeep I thought I was pretty clear but the best reason for marriage is raising children. The asker asked how to incentivize marriage. Incentivizing children would accomplish that.
@normalice
Right, I disagree with that premise. How would you account for the 20% of people who are childfree? They still get married. Also, we're overpopulated. If we're trying to increase marriage, is there a way to do it without burdening the system with higher net population?
@BoopBoopBeep how would I account for 20% when I said the "best" reason, not the "only" reason? 80% is evidence that it is, in fact, the best reason or at least highly correlated to whatever the best reason actually is.
The claim that we're overpopulated is subjective.
My question would then by why are we trying to increase marriage if there is nothing to do in a marriage that requires a combined effort.
@normalice
"The claim that we're overpopulated is subjective."
Is it? I've literally never seen anyone arguing that we're underpopulated. When countries can't even sustain their population without outside charity it's not really a strong argument that we need more people in the world. That 20% is higher once you start excluding older generations, incidentally.
Personally, I haven't looked deeply at the marriage data, but if one could demonstrate a higher economic productivity or reported level of happiness in a marriage, those would be legitimate reasons to incentivize marriage that aren't related to having kids. Maybe the data doesn't support that. Maybe people are miserable in marriage. I have no idea what that looks like, but conceptually I could imagine there might be other reasons to increase the marriage rate.
@BoopBoopBeep arguing that we are not overpopulated is not the same as arguing that we are underpopulated. Its not like there is a quota or somethig. And certianly some regions have more population than their environment can sustain, but also some regions have far more stuff than their population could ever consume (farms). I would point out that no one materializes out of thin air or thinks themselves into existence - if an area has enough food to build you in the first place it usually will have enough to sustain you as well. It is the unique human tendency of crowding the population away from the food that makes it all seem abstract.
In any case, in providing any answer for why we might want to increase the marriage rate, that is the obvious thing to incentive, whatever that might be.
@normalice There's not much you could do IRL either.
@normalice Dr's fix guys getting laid? Wouldn't that just be a hater?
@normalice I can certainly understand how hearing information that challenges your naive belief would trigger you.
@normalice in my opinion that's your problem, you're making the assumption that I "go through" something you have made up
@normalice Lol, unfortunately for you that's the problem, as your POV is skewed by your emotional response to every question that triggers you.
@normalice To the position that something that makes you feel bad is wrong,
@normalice Lol, to feelings? You are allowed to feel how you like.
@normalice Lol, as I mentioned b4 I'm not familiar w/ whatever that is. It's unfortunate that you're obsessed with it though, hopefully you'll get the help you need.
@normalice well when you have some, feel free to share.
@normalice That's certainly an opinion you're welcome to hold.
Well for starters, perhaps the government should be consistent and stop selectively discriminating! Lgbtq was legalized as having a right to be married, and yet the government didn’t do anything to reverse unconstitutional so called laws that deny peoples right to be married in polygamy! I can guarantee you that a lot more women would get married if they could be legally married in their own marriage with a man who has another marriage to another woman. Like multiple concurrent monogamous marriages with the same husband in each marriage. People who practice polygamy are actually very serious about marriage and family. It’s not a hook up game!
how about free NFL and MLB subscriptions
Enforce prenups and other marriage contracts whatever they are. Make it illegal with fines and jail time for a family court to toss out the contract over the best interest of the child or for any other of their nonsense reasons. Just that one change in the law should suffice.
However, we could go a bit further, If there is no marriage contract, give custody to the parent best able to financially support the children and no child support unless it is what the parties agree to.
In that case very few women would file for divorce and men would not be afraid to get married.
Whoa, I can't believe I missed this opinion before. While I still consider the state-sanctioned marriage to be a scam, as the proposed corrections to the law can never be set in stone, because all it takes is a single rotten administration to overwrite them, I think the proposal itself is perfect. Especially so given the fact that it comes from a girl under the age of 18... I guess there is some hope left for humanity, after all. The only change I might suggest is to make it punishable by death for a family court to toss out the contract for a sham reason. If they are willing to ruin people's lives, sometimes prompting these people to take their own lives, they should be ready to lose their own lives, as well.
Why do we need to change the laws exactly? If you don't want to get married don't. We don't need marriage to continue on as a functioning society. Children can and have been born out of wedlock since the dawn of time. If the prospect of marriage is so awful, don't do it and go be you.
@anonymous Agreed. Seems like that's the choice most men are making.
Opinion
10Opinion
There should be no laws, no state-sanctioned marriage. Traditional, purely Catholic marriage should be promoted instead, as it does not pose an existential threat to men in case something goes wrong or the woman just randomly decides to tear it all apart.
@CalmUntilAbused Interesting what's the major fundamental difference in Catholic marriages?
They are designed to last. Sure, non-believers are not bound by them in any way, but otherwise... There is no way out of a Catholic marriage. I guess if You were made to believe that Your spouse is a truly different person than they really are (say, a man who was always kind and gentlemanly turns out to be a sadist or a woman who was always kind and caring turns out to be an Amber Heard-class psychopath), there might be a kind of way out, based on the assumption that there was no love in this marriage, and thus it is void (basically, it never happened), but it would by no means be an easy way. In a great majority of cases, You are held responsible for Your decision, and there is no way You can simply cancel it with no consequences (for women) or even for a certain price (for men). You learn to embrace that conflicts are inevitable and it's about solving them, not running away from them. You learn to embrace that Your partner is a human and not some kind of ideal creation that will always be what You want to be. You learn to embrace that love is not a feeling, but a decision of dedicating Yourself to Your spouse for life that is supposed to be upheld even in an adversity. Of course, few people these days realize these kinds of facts about reality from the get-go, so priests hold additional catechism sessions for future newlyweds. They also include a few more teachings more specific to Catholicism, such as that new life (children) are one of the important goals of a marriage and thus abortion and even contraception contradict the idea of marriage, but it's not like they will enforce that You abide by these rules. But You are definitely held responsible for the single decision of dedicating Your life first to a single person and then to Your family.
@CalmUntilAbused TY this is very interesting and inciteful. The one thing I don't understand is if a couple is married in the Catholic church I'm America are they considered legally married?
I'm not sure about America, but in Poland there is an option to have both a Catholic and state-sanctioned marriage in one ceremony. However, my idea is exactly to avoid any state interference, in order to make the marriage a pact before God and God only. This way, we can avoid all the state-induced headache and base the marriage on mutual trust and responsibility in order to hopefully make it last.
It would not matter if laws were changed tomorrow, it would not change the main thing that has caused men to reject marriage, that is - WOMEN - 80% of divorces are initiated by women and no man in his right mind would go into a contract, (and be of no doubt that is what a marriage is) if the partner could dissolve the contract 80% of the time with no penalties, taking 70% or more of the partnerships assets with them.
Even if 'no fault', alimony, and custody laws were changed today nothing would have any effect on men seeing marriage as a high risk - low return endeavour that puts all of his assets and his life at risk (suicide after divorce due to decisions by the 'Family Court' that take little to no notice of the husband/fathers needs).
the problem is that there is no problem written directly into the law. but how the law is applied, women are heavily favoured, in any lawsuit around domestic violence, divorces and custody. so if we stop fucking men over for marrying, they're gonna do it more.
but what we can and should do is really not in law. what really can have an impact is a narrative shift in the public debate and media.
Probably making abortion illegal. Men back in the day had to marry women if they made then pregnant out of societal pressure. But now people have seemingly created a solution. Which is a actually a problem. It is well tho, God is Good
@lara_croft Why would that incentives men to get married?
I suppose as time goes on and less people commit abortion as it is illegal, the stigma of being a multi- father to kids pushed by society will prompt them to opt for marry. Promiscuity and lack of self control is a plague. God is Good
@lara_croft If abortion was made illegal you would just have more single moms producing less productive kids.
Minimum wage should be at least doubled, taxes raised on the wealthy back to Eisenhower administration levels. National health care. Free higher education. Basically, make it possible for the average man to support a family.
Alimony laws need a massive reform, it needs to have like a maximum of 2 years tops, and also, custody laws need to stop being so biased against men.
A return to at-fault divorce in places that do not have it would help. It is INSANE that an innocent spouse can still have to pay open-ended alimony to a cheater.
Its less about them not wanting to marry than being unable to.
Women stop sleeping with men.
@radiate143 Lol, GL w/ that.
I don't need it.
@Billlewis yes, this is how it was done for thousands of years. But people think this new way is better. As we can see, it isn’t and women are fetting the very very very short end of the stick..
@radiate143 That doesn't really matter. What one girl won't do the next one will.
You asked what would work. IF (are you familiar with ypothetical statements?) ALL WOMEN did that it would work. OBVIOUSLY that won't happen. Do you get it now?
*hypothetical
None, let people live their lives how they want.
They should ban porn
@anonymous How would that help?
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