Recently, I noticed that more and more men are against getting married, why?

[Natattack21]

Earlier I asked a question, and I had some mixed reviews on as to why guys do or don't want to get married.

Whats you're answer?

Updates

+1 y

Thank you all for answering!

[Hidden_P]

Because divorces favour women.

My dad was unusually lucky in his divorce. He was allowed to keep the house. He had to give over all his savings, his mother’s inheritance, my university fund, and pay for my mother to live for 2 years (think it was £800 a month or something, and min wage here is £900 a month so gives you an idea). Divorce costs were about £30,000 each in law fees. My mother was given about £250,000 in total. Best thing? She never worked a day in her life, abused me, ran off with a convicted criminal and the judge just gave her everything my dad worked for. After the divorce we continues scrimping and saving because we had to pay for that disease riddled whore to live with her ape.

My dad had custody of me (she didn’t even fight it) but I’m youngest of 5. I was the only one young enough for custody.

We grew up scraping by month by month and my dad saving all the time to send us to uni, or at least help. She took every penny. I don’t blame men for not wanting to marry but it devastes me that because of the likes of my witch of a mother I won’t get married.

[Slim57]

A truly sad story but thanks for taking the time to share its good to get both perspectives at their best

[Hidden_P]

@Slim57 thanks. It angers me but I also tell it to show I’m aware of why men hate marriage and I would never take what wasn’t mine.

Sadly though, men are scared to commit and I don’t really blame them. We need to stop bending to bitchy women and learn we earn what we work for.

[PurpleCarrot]

So sorry that happened to you. My sympathies.

[TheFunkyThumb]

Thank you for sharing that

[Natattack21]

I so sorry that you had to go through that, as well as your father.

[passinby]

Thanks for those details and honesty. My childhood wasn't much different; I can relate all too well.

[Catholicgirl22]

This^^^^

[Hidden_P]

Thanks guys for the support. Without her, my dad has finally got out of debt but retirement is unlikely to happen. He’s in his 60s and because of his pension agreement, she gets half (of the value at time of divorce) of the pension automatically after 60 (which she’s passed). To afford the divorce my dad had to remortgage the house for an extra 25 years (this was 10 years ago) and his pension wouldn’t be able to cover everything.

So @Natattack21, thanks to women like my mother and the legal system, this is why men don’t want to marry

[Fanzo2]

This secular system is unjust, unbalanced, it closes just enough doors to rob people of their rights, such as punishing those who commit adultery, and opens just enough that defends the guilty. It is designed to break family life and unsettle, to benefit the few at the expense of many. Thankfully u don't need legal marriage. All u need is witnesses a binding contract signed by husband and wife and signatures of the witnesses. And it is a promise witness celebrated by all who attend. An effort that can't so easily be deterred in the course of life's journey. It is a declaration and there was definitely money spent which isn't like dating, which is based on whim and comes with plausible deniability when people don't feel like putting the work in. Robbing each other of their honesty.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Hidden_P Almost everything you stated are reasons why I will never marry again after my divorce. I also fought for and was awarded custody of my son, so my focus is raising him. I have been fortunate that everyone involved in the custody and divorce process have been able to see what my ex-wife was all about.

[Fanzo2]

*such as not punishing those who commit adultery

[Hidden_P]

@NYCQuestions1976 I’m so sorry. I can fully understand your viewpoint. I was 16 when the divorce went through and due to my age I had to submit a statement of who I wanted to live with and why. I found it insulting that my 50-odd year old mother was awarded my university fund my dad had started to fund her 3rd degree. And we had to pay expenses for her and her monkey. And she had my dads inheritance from HIS mum.

I think it’s awful. I believe in marriage but I mean the commitment. It’s been wrangled to be benefical to woman and that’s so wrong. I’m aware people don’t separate amicably but the court should be there to divide things not fairly, not who stamps their foot the most.

I hope your son is okay. I’m sure he’s in safe hands.

[Hidden_P]

Also, almost every judge who met my mother was enraged and told her to shut up or they would charge her with wasting the courts time. The final judge was not a divorce lawyer and essentially split it down the middle - my dad kept the house and other valuable physical assets, my mum got all the money.

[Hidden_P]

Fun fact too - my mum is mentally ill for a few reasons BUT during the divorce she threatened to come to my school and shoot me (said this to my brother). My school went into lockdown, I was escorted everywhere, I wasn’t allowed in the car park without a teacher and the police were on immediate response for my mobile and home number. The courts didn’t even acknowledge it. Women want to be treated equally... until it doesn’t agree with them getting their way at all times.

[MadManInBlueBox]

Not as drastic, but similar here. Exception being the ex kept my little girl, and I'm paying her to do nothing herself. The divorce world is rigged for the woman's side of things. Maybe that's men's karma

[Hidden_P]

@MadManInBlueBox sadly if the children are young they normally go to their mums, especially girls. It’s why my dad left it so long to divorce my mother because me and her do not get on and she would have had custody. At one point she was talking of moving me to New Zealand (I live in the UK). My mother is full on nuts, but my dad put up with it until I was of age.

It’s a flipped coin if it was worth it. On the one hand, I had to endure my mother’s abuse as did my family. I ended up self harming and I was suicidal. On the other, I got to keep my dad and escape her. I was mentally screwed up already by her so I think on the whole I’m glad it planned out how it did.

You need to make sure you see your daughter (if she wants to see you too) and don’t let her mother stop her. Don’t try to bribe her with “i got you a puppy!” Because your ex will just push you away. It’s tricky. Your daughter should always come first though

[MadManInBlueBox]

Oh, I don't do any of that bribing. She's 8. She sees me every other weekend nowadays, stays overnight, but it took me nearly seven years just to get that. Used my military service against be and everything. In more recent years, though, the judge and counselors are starting to see she is just a crock of shit, so I've gained a lot in the last few years. She's a slip up or two away from me finally getting my little one outta the situation.

[Hidden_P]

@MadManInBlueBox I’m so sorry it’s taken you this long. It’s examples like this I hate being a woman - scream for equality but snatch up all opportunities like an underfed hippo and the temper of one too. It’s why I’m not a feminist - they shout for “equality” when they want superiority and tbh both genders shouldn’t be treated the same because we aren’t.

One day your daughter will be so happy for what you’ve done when she truly understands. You’re doing great

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Hidden_P I admit I do wonder, even with all of the false allegations my ex-wife made against me over the years, if things would have worked out as they should have if I had a daughter instead of a son...

Incidentally, you should hook up me and @MadManInBlueBox with some of your single friends. We probably could use a night out! 😉 lol

[MadManInBlueBox]

@NYCQuestions1976 Thanks, but I prefer to focus on my little girl. Porn is press damaging. Lol

[MadManInBlueBox]

Less damaging*

[NYCQuestions1976]

@MadManInBlueBox Fair enough. lol

My son is the same age as your daughter. Great age. I hope everything works out...

[Catholicgirl22]

The divorce rate is lile 40-50% then there's alimony and child support payments on top of that. In some States a guy can go to jail if he can't pay his alimony or child support payments. Then there is paternity fraud, a guy could be on the hook for child support until the child is 18 even if the child turns out to be some other guy's.
70% of divorce is instigated by women many of whom pursue it very ruthlessly pretending everything is ok while she works behind the scenes with a lawyer evaluating any property or shares he has, working out what alimony she can get. A common move is to empty any joint savings accounts they have and then call the police that night before instigating a fight that way the husband though innocent is taken away to jail and has a restraining order out against him guaranteeing the wife secures full custody of the kids and keeps the family home, next having secured all that she filed for divorce.
I think guys feel it's too risky. I see where a lot of these MGTOW guys are coming from. I think soceity in a lot of ways is unfair to men.

[crazy8000]

Spot on in many first world countries.

They that are privileged doesn't see how privileged they are until they lose it and lack the ability to see the other side many times.

[DeterMind]

Wow, that second picture of the stick people timeline is sadly true. I know someone like the woman, and it just hurts everyone involved with the dad and kids.

[Catholicgirl22]

@DeterMind I know quite a few women like that.

[TheBaard]

Ya that's what happened with me

[Catholicgirl22]

@TheBaard I'm sorry to hear that.

[TheBaard]

Ty. : (

[lucas262]

Iv been mgtow since 2015, you've no idea, the amount of resistance men had to fight to say the things you just did. Your very on point which is unusual for me to hear from a woman, so props. It's a pity things have come to this.

[ChronicThinker]

Because if there's a divorce, they often lose the most in that situation or historically have. Also, people often get too comfortable in a marriage; they stop trying, stop having sex, let themselves go, get bored, and you end up trapped while the other person doesn't have to bother to try because if you want to break up, it's an expensive legal process.

I considered all of this before agreeing to marry my fiance lol.

[ccscsc]

Marriage is definitely at lowest then its ever been. For many women it because they want to focus more on a career and not be stressed about being bogged down and discouraged to work after marriage. For men its fear of the marriage falling apart and losing money and property and materialistic things, modern feminism served as a catalyst to this notion. It is generally much more harder to economically raise a family then it ever has been, and also social media is so huge now its easy to get exposed and men especially hate that. There seems to be fewer and fewer reasons for men to get married today.

[Anonymous]

It's mainly because of the way men are treated in divorce courts, the marriage laws, and the way women react when men speak about these things.

In the past men had legal protections when it came to marriage as did women, but many things put in place mainly by feminism have taken them away for men and have skewed it in favour of women.

Some argue that these changes were good, but what makes it skewed is that they didn't take away other things that went alongside it.

For example, divorce used to be fault-based and the end result would be decided on that. Now with "no fault" divorce it doesn't matter. Couple that with alimony and the fact the in the majority of marriages especially where the woman stays home, the man being the higher earner usually ends up having to pay alimony. Under fault-based divorce for example if the woman cheated she wouldn't have any right to it, but now that it's "no fault", she does.

Add to that child support. Children used to go to the Father a lot more until the "tender years doctrine" was introduced which stated that Mothers should get the children by default. Now unless she's unfit as a Mother they go to her, and she gets child support. In cases where the men get custody, women are much less likely to pay child support too.

What's more, men have very little protection from the law from those Mothers if they refuse to allow him to see the children. In the UK only in around 3% of cases where men seek help because the Mothers refuse to allow them access to their children for no reason at all are they actually forced to allow them, the rest go on not being able to see their children.

Depending on where you're from women initiate 70-75% of all divorces, and it's no wonder when the laws and the system are biased in their favour.

In response to men who want to avoid this, women, rather than admitting that it's fucked up and maybe trying to change those laws to make them more equal, only shame and criticise men for doing so. Men get tired of this and it further makes them not want to get married - some even see it as the woman saying that she wants it to stay the way it is because it favours her, or that she just doesn't care because it affects men and not her.

[Opinion Owner]

The funny thing is that in China they saw this happening there so they reversed a few of these things. For example where before a married woman would have rights when it came to a house that the man most likely bought, they changed the law so that the house stayed with whoever bought the house (the man). This resulted in a lower divorce rate, surprise surprise. But also, many women complained that this was somehow unfair, they felt entitled to at least half of the man's wealth just for marrying him. Some would even refuse to marry a guy unless he signed half of the house to her beforehand in order to get around this. This is why men avoid it, they don't want money grabbing women who want to pretend that it's all about love and romance.

it's also strange that they shame men and call them commitment-phobes, pressure men into marriage, when 3/4 of the time they're the ones ending it.

[Opinion Owner]

A common response to this is that not all women are like that - and that's absolutely true of course, good women exist. But when 75% of women are divorcing and the laws are skewed, then it's always a risk. 99.9% of those men who get fucked over in divorce thought that their woman wasn't like that.

It's just a one-sided contract, and also it doesn't give a man anything that he can't get in a relationship. In the past you had to get married to settle down with a woman and have a family, now you can do it without marriage. Why then would a guy get married when it would change absolutely nothing about his relationship other than a big bill at the end if it goes bad?

[Slim57]

Give this man mho ! Thanks for taking the time to type this I'm glad I took the time to read it

[Opinion Owner]

@Slim57 Thanks mate.

@DualityGreen mentioned getting married with a prenup. Many women, as with the case in China where women for example complained that men get to keep the houses they bought before they were even married rather than give them half, react badly when it comes to prenups. They see it as the guy not trusting them not to be gold diggers and claim that it's unromantic, but then those same women by opposing a prenup are saying that they don't trust the man to be fair to them either. They have the same attitude for example when it comes to work vs staying at home, much of the time saying that they wouldn't want to stay home in case the man left them without being able to support themselves. When men want those assurances we're bad guys, when women want it it's common sense.

What's more, if a judge decides that a prenup is somehow unfair to a woman despite agreeing to it before marriage, they can ignore it and often overrule it. It isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[Fanzo2]

U don't need legal marriage. Just marriage. Witnesses and a contract signed by husband and wife to be and by the witnesses. U have recognized place in society hence forth, without doubt a sincere attempt in being with ur loved one. U spend money for the wedding have wedding guests, it's all in, ur making witnesses to ur commitment. So ur obliged to put the work in even when u don't feel like it. The secular law is designed to put people off marriage, it's so they can have jar heads for false wars. And women as play dolls, to serve the few at the expense of many. This is deliberate.

[Fanzo2]

This system is tilted just enough to oscillate us out of control. The law is bring manipulated to give advantage to the few who have no concept of decency, composure, dignified life, for them it is just a show where by they conceal their decadence, debauchery, perversions. It is to our disadvantage, as the working class to not marry, u don't need legal marriage, just marriage, a promise celebrated among loved ones amongst ur guests. A promise remembered by all who attend. That has support and weight not a flaky thing that can be dismissed when u don't want to put the effort in, take responsibility, be accountable.

[madhatters4]

it's funny the popular notion is that marriage is waning and yet since 2008 there has been a steady rise in marriages and in fact in 2017 we had the most marriages since 1997. at the same time the rate of divorce is dropping annually

- i've heard guys say divorce laws being unfair are the reason they don't get married
- more women are pursuing careers over marriages
- many men and women simply don't feel the societal pressure as much as they used to enter into a legally binding government sanction marriage
- some will say feminism has ruined marriages

still despite all that the number of marriages is up at a 20 year high. the rate of divorce is at a 30 year low

go figure

[bubble_tea]

Is it possible that the rise is due to Americans marrying foreigners at an all time high?

[madhatters4]

@bubble_tea it could be i guess. i haven't found too much suggesting that there is a huge rate of americans marrying non-americans that would cause such a rise in recent years but i won't say it's not a real possibility.

[LThunder]

@madhatters4, you got a link to anything you've said? Whenever I searched for this stuff, it says marriage at all time low. I don't believe for a second that it's at an all time high and growing. Just looking around at the world says different. Also, not surprising the two likes you got are pink.

[madhatters4]

@LThunder
1. this is marriage in america
2. i didn't say marriages are at an all-time high i said a 20 year high

if you aren't finding it you clearly aren't searching correctly
www.statista.com/.../
this is a timeline bar graph by year. it is clear that marriages have been on the rise

[LThunder]

alright, call me stupid but those graphs seem to go completely against what you're saying

[ScottL]

Because generally we're the ones that get screwed out of the deal if it doesn't work out.

If there's alimony, majority of divorces result in women getting paid... And for what? To maintain their "way of life"?

Get a job, learn to be self sufficient.

Or if you have kids, the mothers most of the time get awarded custody and the fathers only get to see them at most 104 days a year unless arrangements are made for vacations or extended weekends and have to pay child support.

So, what do men have to gain by getting married?

[TheFunkyThumb]

Im all for family. But i got fucked hard by divorce and will probably end up paying for it for the forseeable future. The part i hate the most is its detrimental to any future relationships i have. Its ruined my credit, so owning a house and a new car are all but gone. Its taking half my wages, and while i gladly pay everything i can for my child half my current wages is excessive. And not to mention the stigma of a divorced single dad. While i will totally settle back down you can see why i would hesitate to get the government back involved in it

[LivinLegend]

1- I heard if you get divorced 9 times outta 10 the husband loses and has a whole bunch of his shit go to her

2- From what I seen women let themselves after their first kid and you get trapped in a relationship with a beauty turned beast. Idc what anybody says physical attraction is the most important attraction. y'all girls know damn well you wouldn't be able to stand your husband if he went from 250 pounds of muscle to 300 pounds of belly fat rolls, itching his ass all day, drinking n shit.

3- A lot females turning into thotties. If u dnt know alredy a thot issa another name for a slut/whore/hoe. These type of girls have like 30 bodies on their body count (Body count= How many men they fucked with) by the time they are 18. No respect for themselves no dude wants a female who been fucking the whole neighborhood. They bash dudes for "slut shaming" but cmon now 30 bodies at 18? That means u just letting anyone in your pussy and you just a piece of meat for me fuck at that point.

[passinby]

It is a death trap for men. The feminists have turned the government against men such so that they can be stripped of everything if entered into such a one sided contract all the way to debtors prison. And yes many men have committed suicide over it.

So my answer to this is, I went and had a vasectomy. So much for the house with white picket fence and all that bsht. I say live it up!

[bubble_tea]

They don't see a reason to do it. Once something bad happens like she is unconscious and needs an operation that needs to be signed by family, but he can't visit her because he isn't family and can't sign the paper either, he might re-think his position.

[LThunder]

That sounds like a reason to change the laws.

[Synttacks]

There are the guys that just want to fuck around (always have been, and now there are guys who are afraid of it because so many other guys get ass raped in court when there is a devorce. Personally I feel the women leaving has much to do with feminism telling women they can fuck other guys like guys have been doing with other girls right along but with guys doing it they rarely get emotionally attached and can leave at a moments notice from their mistress. Girls on the other hand generally attach emotional value on their side lovers and leave their original lover.

Tldr - women are monogamous and men are not.

[Claire136]

Its not only men. Marriage isn't as valued as it once was. And its not as appealing as it was years ago. Many can live life without it and its gives too much drawbacks to be worth the risk. And if I were a guy, I would never get married cause once my wife divorces me, I have to pay alimony and child support. Besides, there's many girls out there willing to give sex without marriage. Why buy the cow when the milk is free?

[DarkPhoenix86]

That last part about the cow is so true... I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Anonymous]

They have low expectations of marriages lasting - which is also true of women I suspect - coupled with the impression the divorce process will treat them unfairly.

Men used to marry for a family, companionship and sex. That’s still true, but at the margins young men apparently have longer lasting and more emotionally open friendships than men of earlier generations, may be aware that marriage is risky in terms of sex, and fear losing their family in a divorce even if they have one.

[Purin]

Because marriage is anti men. If anything happens in a marriage the female gets part of what men owns with rare cases where female will have to do the same. The associated waste on things like rings, weddings are pretty pointless. The only damn difference is a piece of paper and some legal crap that says you are married.

[YDoIKeepDoingThisLol]

Google the statistics.

To sum it up: 1. The majority of marriages end in divorce. 2. The majority of the divorces are initiated by women. 3. In child custody cases the woman is disproportionately awarded custody of the children. 4. Women are often given half of the man's shit by virtue of being women.

[Purin]

1. We live in a female privileged society.
2. Women want to rip as much off men as they can and force sht laws that benefit women in every way
3. complains no men is falling for the trap.
In the end, it is the women that created this. Why would we be legally bound when we are free and can do whatever we want?

[YDoIKeepDoingThisLol]

Yes sir exaclty. Amen.

[Anonymous]

When you go to buy a new car, would you pay full price for the ones that had severely high mileage...

Promiscuity = not fit to be the mother of my children, and not fit for marriage either...

How many partners does the average girl have nowadays by the age of 19... now think about how many they have by the time they get married. Yea... thanks but NO THANKS!

[Peopleschamp]

In a nutshell if the marriage goes south the guy really can lose everything. A lot of guys with more experience than myself have told me this. There's more to it than that I think though. It feels like culturally, women want dating/marriage to look like Hollywood. Men want dating/ marriage to be more practical and equal. I hear a lot of girls wanting to be treated like a queen or a princess but won't treat their s/o like a king/prince

[DarkPhoenix86]

My question is what's the point nowadays, besides tax purposes? Marriage has lost so much of its meaning now its laughable. Divorce rates are near 50% the last I knew, freaking no one, including myself save sex for after marriage, and no one (also me) follow religious values like people used to either. I know quite a few people who have spent more on their divorce than they did on the marriage itself. It just doesn't have any meaning anymore, legally or morally.

[MusicMayhem]

Because most men have a lot of difficulty attracting women, let alone one they like. They want the freedom of choice in women, to experiment. That only comes in their 30's onwards at marriage age. They don't want to settle down with a girl knowing she's enjoyed that part of life when he hasn't experienced that yet. So they avoid getting married to enjoy being single and for the first time in their life having choice in dating.

[Burning_Fyre]

Granted I can't talk from experience cause I'm one of the few guys that actually look forward to marriage.

I can say though some guys just view it as a piece of paper that says by law that one belongs to the other while others don't want that kind of commitment.

Me? I look forward to it cause of the commitment, status, and dedication to the relationship that marriage shows/has.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

img.memecdn.com/marriage-is-a-trap_o_6663593.jpg

img.4plebs.org/.../1493077178446.png

[9teen]

They see that less and less women are worth it. Divorce rates are high, the hook up culture is a trend, cheating is common and they could get whatever from the girl freely so most guys are unmotivated.