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Why the Wall Affects Men and Women Differently

This was a response I wrote for @Audiofox's question, "why does the "wall" exist for women but not for men?", upon writing I realized how long it was and thought it would be better to just put it in the form of a mytake instead of half a dozen responses. Its my first mytake so I apologize if it comes off as amateurish.

Why the Wall affects men and women differently

So the reason why women are more affected by the wall is simply because men gain over time and women lose over time. Thats not to say a mans desirability period is infinite, its not, but men gain in the long run, women in the short run. Basically it has to do with what women want and what men want. Women want resources, pregnancy is resource intensive and hinders a womans ability to acquire resources. So when looking for a long term partner she will look for a man with resources. This benefits the older man as he has a greater amount of time to acquire his resources, to build a nest egg or career or to move up the social ranks. The more time he has to do this(and ambition which is why women love an ambitious man because it means greater resources down the line) the more resources/status he can accumulate.

Meanwhile for men they are looking for women who are able to reproduce sucessfully. Reproduction for women is far more physically intensive for women then it is for men so for a woman her body is the means by which she barters when it comes to reproduction and relationships. Thats why men go after certain types of women, for instance men liking big butts is actually about the womans ability to survive the child birth process with minimal damage(as even after birth the baby is entirely dependent on the mother for food for at least two years so if any complications arise the child will almost certainly die as well).

An example of the male desire for a physically robust body of a woman would be for example, liking bigger butts. Generally speaking it mean wider hips which of course means easier birthing but it also means a greater spinal curvature( of the lower spine) which actually helps function as a counter balance for when she is pregnant meaning less strain on the body and thus less wear and tear allowing for the greater probability of multiple births without real issue. This is why men are obsessed with a womans body, because it determines her ability to survive child birth. However time wears the body out for both men and women, that means the older a woman gets the harder pregnancy will be on her body and the longer it will take to recover and the greater the probability of complications(thats not even taking into account that older women are more likely to give birth to babies with genetic defects like autism and what not).

Then you have the issue that a man can, theoretically, be able to reproduce up until the day he dies with minimal issue, a woman however has a finite time to do so, after menopause she will be completely sterile. So time works against women and for men it works for them.Then you have the issue that men are against promiscuous women, they are willing to have sex with them as it means increased probability of reproducing but they are far less inclined to have a relationship with them becuase it increases the odds of raising a child(highly resource intensive) that is not theirs and potentially taking resources away from their own child thus reducing the likely hood of their child surviving to reproduce themselves.(this is also why women are less against promiscuous men because maternity is never in question for a woman, she is always aware that she reproduced the man is not).

Why the Wall Affects Men and Women Differently

Neotenous biological traits also are to be taken into consideration. These traits basically are traits that are held over from childhood, we all have them but women have more of them, for example thinner skin(25% thinner to be exact) which makes their skin softer, less muscle mass, less prounounced bone structure in the face, greater amount of and narrower channels for tears making women biologically more capable of crying then men etc. All of these trigger a response in our species that is very similar to that of our response to children, in short its something that incentivises us to protect women because of their similar traits with children(thats also why we find cute things cute, they have traits that are similar to our own young i.e. big eyes, over sized head etc). As women age however they begin to lose these traits, or rather they become less pronounced, this means that women get the strongest responses from men when they are young but as time progresses men are less increasingly less inclined to go out of their way for these women(not that they are mean to them but rather they are no longer as inclined to give them special privileges, or prioritizing these women over others).

Men also lose collagen(the substance that gives your skin structure) less quickly then women do at a rate of 1% a year after the age of 30 comparative to 2% a year for women(obviously how well you take care of yourself also affects rates). In addition men have greater muscle and bone mass/density then women which means that as time progresses they may lose that mass at a same rate but because they have more of it their bodies remain relatively resilient comparative to women thus giving them a longer period of time of "viability", or sexual attractiveness and resilience.

So all of these combined create the "wall", a point in a womans life where she becomes less desirable then before. This of course was not a problem before as we had marriage. Marriage was what helped prevent this phenomenon from occuring, women married young when they where most fertile to men who could take care of them, they married young and because sex outside of a marriage was seen as taboo these women would not be promiscuous so their was not wall. Now these women sleep around(not necessarily their fault they are told there are no consequences for it when their is most definitley consequences for it) which makes them less desirable for long term relationships, they live it up in their younger years when their neotenous biological traits are their most pronounced thus resulting in men being far more generous and amiable to them on top of having greater reproductive potential(this is why you will not see men buying drinks or showering old women with attention, they lack these things) but as time progresses this attention begins decreasing.

But then as time goes on they lose these traits and become increasingly more risky investments for reproduction as they age because again, increased risk of birth defects, death, and sterility, as well as many of these women slept around meaning an increased risk of providing for some one elses child which men are biologically inclined to avoid(not to mention the increased risks of divorce, cheating, unhappiness in long term relationships etc. which many studies have shown also occur). However as time begins running out these same women begin to realize the effect time is having on them and they realize they want a family they want a relationship so then they make a mad dash to find this before time runs out.

Men have now seen how this works and seen that rushed relationships like this with women who have never really been inclined towards them before ends poorly and thus have given the name of this phenomenon "the wall" the point of no return so to speak. That's not to say men do not also have a time limit only that these things do not affect us ad much so our "wall" is far less prominent and is rarely an issue to us as once we exit our youth we generally leave it with more resources then before and along with women being less against male promiscuity, have a less difficult time acquiring that relationship and family.

This is not me trying to preach, do with your life as you see fit, it is after all your life. However your actions do have consequences and while you may not like them, you may think they are "unfair" however that will not alter the fact that they do exist and you will experience them. As such its better to make an informed decision which in defense of all these women who have reached "the wall" they have not been properly educated on the matter like they should have been. People are not informed of this and told to live it up only to find out later in life that their was a reason our ancestors where against this mindset.

Why the Wall Affects Men and Women Differently
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  • cavmanier
    You have some good points even though I bet most women would feel highly offended by reading this.

    I found this part most interesting
    "Then you have the issue that men are against promiscuous women, they are willing to have sex with them as it means increased probability of reproducing but they are far less inclined to have a relationship with them because it increases the odds of raising a child (highly resource intensive) that is not theirs and potentially taking resources away from their own child thus reducing the likely hood of their child surviving to reproduce themselves"

    That's an interesting possibility as to why we tend to find promiscuity unattractive (and the guys that do find it attractive are likely guys that just want women to act promiscuous to benefit their casual sex endeavors). I think a similar situation can be see with male promiscuity and cheating that explains why women tend to not like it as well though. For example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1alLLnXdwbQ
    Is this still revelant?
    • Oh absolutely women are against cheating, wasn't suggesting otherwise. I think that for cheating that its highly disruptive because it increases the odds that the man will abandon her and the child which is potentially lethal for both. The odd part is why women don't have as much an issue with a man having had previous partners as men are. I think it might have to do with women being risk averting and thus a man with previous partners must be a man who has value. Kind of like the other women show that he as value and is not dangerous. Though in my opinion that's not necessarily a good thing as increased partners means increased risk of cheating divorce etc. for men and women (though its more prominent in women).

    • So to clarify, women don't have an issue with men having had previous partners, to a point. Obviously once you hit a certain point they become just as adversed to it as men but again, I think they tolerate the man being "experienced" because of the reasons I stated, any more then that and they go into the territory of being a risk. Its also interesting to note that women actually hate promiscuity in women as well (probably because of the risk of the woman "stealing" their partner or prospective partner away).

    • cavmanier

      A lot of the reason women don't tend to care about partner numbers could be cultural. Men have been in power for so long there is a history of left over precedent which females sort of have to accept or severely limit their options. I see the same movement for womens' promiscuity right now and at some point many guys are likely to choose having a positive attitude regarding it instead of what their natural inclination would be (they rationalize and conform).

      Women hate promiscuity too (although that seems to be shifting due to sheep migrating). It could also be because during most of our evolution we didn't have the blue pill and sex with the whole block really was dangerous and not smart. It could be similar to putting ones hand in fire lol.

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • raspberry0416
    What cracks me up is you thought traditional marriage "helped" women. It did not sweetheart. Women do age and become less desirable over time. Men were philanderers and took mistresses. Nowadays at least women have financial independence and don't have to put up with men who disrespect them.
    • azzntittiz

      Imagined that being the case back then when the men who *owned* women grew bored of them.

    • azzntittiz

      *I imagined*

    • @azzntittiz
      Yes exactly

    • Show All
  • Unit1
    i.pinimg.com/.../...8d6724946f6c920ba9d563ffa5.jpg

    Well done!
    There's a saying, that men age like wine while women age like milk.
    Women may have the upper hand early on (especially in their teens and 20s and around my current age) because of their blooming beauty and fertility but once a decade passes it will be our turn. Meanwhile young women tend to be unable to see the potential of our younger versions but once they do it later when the time comes round it will be way too late.
    It just is the way it is.
    Justice in such regards will come. But long overdue of course.

    "However your actions do have consequences and while you may not like them, you may think they are "unfair" however that will not alter the fact that they do exist and you will experience them. As such its better to make an informed decision"
    media.giphy.com/media/l3BYm4CjQPvjy/giphy.gif
    Precisely!
    Everyone should have known.

    I really loved this mytake!
    • @azzntittiz?

    • Unit1

      Also girls *tend* to have either such a standard or just overly prefer the man, who has got it all and is ready - the full package INSTEAD of getting with someone maybe somewhat inexperienced and not yet so successful and to train him to be their perfect partner and join him in his adventure towards success. That's however just a love story for me.

      @azzntittiz
      Aaand
      i.gyazo.com/c8be879aaa7ab26466409bb999d9b0ce.png
      Gotcha! Buh-bye.

    • COCOCHANEL

      always have found myself attracted to men in their prime age 19-22

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  • 10dsw
    I really don't like this wall talk but I do think that a lot of women are a bit naive when it comes to the fact that they face a wall and sooner than men.

    I mean I think it's kind of amusing when I run into 30 y/o women who ask where all the good men have gone and yet fucked 200+ guys between 20-30 only as opposed to looking to build a solid family.
    • Actually believe it or not I was talking to a woman like last week who has serious money. And she was saying how she wants to get married, have kids and raise a family, yet I have seen this women bring different men up to her condo at 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning. Obviously I don't know what they are doing in her apartment but I'm pretty sure the guy didn't come over to watch TV only. Lol

      She is a very sweet and friendly woman, but she looks like she is in her early 40's, know she really want to settle down and start a family. I was shaking my head within my head when she was telling me that. Lol

    • 10dsw

      @Hispanic-Cool-Guy LOL you should have been like "I'm sure some of your nightly suitors could potentially make for husband material"

      But yes, there's a prime example of what I mean

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  • alessandro_02
    media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

    I'm impressed. This is a very factual take and honestly the best I've ever read here so far. You clearly put a lot of thought into this.
    • Thank you. I did indeed try to put as much information and thought into this as I could. I wanted to explain it as thoroughly as possible.

  • It's good for women who don't want kids. They don't need or want a man's resources and they don't have to be pressured to get a man locked down by the time her eggs stop producing. None of that matters to a woman who doesn't care about having kids. They can then turn away all the men who might demand a family, and choose a man who also doesn't want to have kids, which I have found there to be a lot of. Hell I think most men only say they want kids because they don't plan on being the primary care taker. If men took involvement with child raising, the world would be a hell of a lot less populated.
    • But most women do? You do see that last minute rush by these women, either trying to lock down a man or getting pregnant and taking his resources (child support, welfare etc.). Or they adopt. Its really common. I mean sure the handful of women that say they don't want kids and then actually end up not wanting kids or long term relationships may not have an issue with this but they are really rare. That's why more women then men reported wanting to get married. Its also probably why women are more depressed now then they where in the fifties, because the traditional system that benefited them is not the system we use today. Men absolutely are involved in their children's life, in fact the real issue is that women have prevented men from being in their childs life through divorce and child custody laws that only benefit the woman. Further more men have to be the bread winners so they have to work more then the woman because women demand it.

    • I think a lot of women want kids and to do the traditional think because they *think* they want it. They think that's what they are supposed to do, but I bet many of them would be happier not having kids or at least waiting another 5-10 years to do so.

      I think the biggest mistakes women are making that leads to their dissatisfaction and depression is: 1. Choosing the wrong men. 2. Choosing the wrong role in life for themselves, 3. Abiding by traditional standards at all, 4. Getting married and having kids too early in life and too early in the relationship.

      I think they would be wise to take some more time to think about what they really want and not what they are supposed to want because society and history told them.

    • Actually most women want kids because its what they are biologically predisposed to want. If people didn't want kids we would not exist as a species. Women are currently being told they don't want a family so they party focus on their jobs then they get to the "wall" and then realize they are miserable and unhappy and they want that family (as they are biologically predisposed to want). That's why you see these women start trying everything in their power to get a relationship, have children etc. I mean statistically women in the 50s where happier then women now. Statistically women who are stay at home mothers are happier then women who are not, traditional women are happier then non traditional women.
      www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...en-HAPPY-housewife.html
      www.kstatecollegian.com/.../
      www.redbookmag.com/.../

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  • COCOCHANEL
    oh i see that you have this conversation with many.

    there very much is a wall for men and it often happens sooner because many think it's ok to let themselves go. the only women who want to be with visibly aged, overweight men are those who see them as wallets.

    • Some men. At least where I live, most my guy friends have been gym rats for a while now. All of us (including much older guys) have aged much better than the girls our age. It's all a matter of choice for men to be lazy and let themselves go or work towards their income and physical goals.

    • Again, as I pointed out in mytake yes their is a wall, but its not really a wall so much as a slow incline. We age slower, our body has more bone density and muscle density and collagen so we lose it at a slower rate and have more of it which slows the affect down. Also as I pointed out in the take, yes how you treat your body will accelerate or slow down this process so some women will still look attractive in old age and some men will look unattractive when young. Again, this was all stuff I stated in my take.

    • COCOCHANEL

      i have read profusely on the topic of ageing and i am under the impression that it's just the opposite, from mens' facial muscles moving more vigorously leading to wrinkle formation (ask any cosmetic surgeon) to the shortening of the Y chromosone, in general men show ageing sooner than women.

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  • WalterRadio
    So many women spend the most fertile years of their lives trying desperately not to get pregnant, then as they are far less fertile, trying desperately to get pregnant.

    Just an observation.
  • vyvyn
    One of the most informed nyTakes I've read. To all the guys on GaG who bashed me for asserting that casual sex is bad, here is another counter argument.
    • bekkesmash

      It explains women as prostitutes, that need resources from men before they have sex with them.

    • vyvyn

      @bekkesmash No that's not the message the take is trying to get across.

    • bekkesmash

      It certainly isn't the crux of the take, but this take still says women are prostitutes that need a man's resources as a prerequisite to having sex with him.

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  • lord_chilled
    Nice take. I think men hit the wall as well, its just that, we dont really give a shit. Like we had to pursue women in the first place, now it may have gotten a bit harder.

    But for women, especially when she was very attractive in her youth, hitting the wall can be a very difficult experience.
    Its sad to see sometimes older women putting on a lot of makeup and trying wayy too hard to dress in revealing outfits and trying to be sexy. No disrespect, but its honestly off putting.
    Older women can be very classy in regular dresses or clothes and come across as genuinely respectable and attractive, just like some old men look very intelligent and respectable.
    You can tell thise ladies were incredibly sexy back in the day and are still attractive. But the women that act very desperate and slutty or genuinely offputting, at least to me.
    • I would not call it a wall, I think its more gradual in men then women which is what I alluded to, because we age slower and have more muscle, bone and collagen in our skin so we have more of it to lose then women plus a potentially semi-permanent ability to reproduce.

    • Thats right i guess

  • lazermazer
    I see a wall of text , lol.
    It's good take but a bad wall.
    • Yeah, I don't know how to provide the amount of information I feel is necessary with out it turning into a book.

  • Let's be clear men don't like older women because older women start to look like a old mop.

    It really doesn't have to do with her ability to get pregnant. Lol. It's about looks bro.
    • Why do you find certain things attractive? Because you are biologically inclined to do so. Why are you biologically inclined to do so? Because it increases the odds of your genes surviving. That's why unhealthy doesn't look attractive because that person is not going to provide you with a healthy offspring and thus are more likely to have that offspring die before they are able to reproduce. It has everything to do with getting pregnant and having a solid genetic makeup to ensure healthy offspring.

  • oddwaffle
    Every gender have walls. The men just come at a much later point, around their 60s compare to women, around their early 40s.

    Men get more matured, stable, wise and richer as they age. These are very desirable traits from the women's point of view.

    This means men popularity increases over time amount younger women unless he has something really bad.

    On the other hand, an older woman is less desirable amount the men. The men don't really care about stability or rich.
    • Early 40's?

      Damn you're generous. By about 14 years.

    • oddwaffle

      @Barrabus_the_Free

      Hahaha. Women these days have a lot of tricks. You're still within the limits before turning into cougars at 40s.

    • I guess that depends on the guy that's viewing them. I know a lot of the tricks they attempt, as well as how to see through their deceptions to their true age, and I won't bother with a post-Wall (older than 29) woman for anything except MAYBE a fuck, and then only if my sex drive is on a rampage.

      But to each his own. You do you, bro.

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  • MasterSirMaster
    My head hurts... what's with all words? This is SO simple...

    Men are attracted to looks, women are attracted to wealth, status, and resources. Men can alway build and have wealth, status, and resources, women only have looks for a limited time.

  • NJ_Casanova
    Walls to expensive... should have an Electrified fence...

    www.expatmonkey.com/.../0818f.jpg

    or a couple rows of Bangolre wire.

    cdn.dvidshub.net/.../1000w_q75.jpg

    They will obviously get hurt bad... and need medical attention... at which there is none for them for miles.

    I like the Ideal of THE USA making making a massive river/canals... free up travel and can make money with shipping. Tall concrete walls sides and deep water will probably cause any trespasser to drown.

    i.dailymail.co.uk/.../...e-a-116_1467123035697.jpg
  • John_Doesnt
    The wall is evil, the wall was invented by Lucifer himself, the wall is from Hades and Hell combined! Hear my words, the wall is bad!
  • Browneye57
    TLDR. Geez.

    A woman's youth and beauty are her greatest assets. So as they age they start to lose that - by forty it's almost gone.

    Men are valued by their ability, their leadership and financial status, as well as their handsome good looks. Those things just gain and accumulate over time to reach a peak around 35-40.

    A good looking guy with lots of money that has a good physique can pull women from 25 to 60. Pretty much the full age range of available women. But why would he pick a fifty if he can get a twenty?
  • zagor
    Why does that picture show the wall knocking down an umpire?
  • SuccessfulHornDog
    Very well written. All true
  • bekkesmash
    Your post literally says women are prostitutes.
    • vyvyn

      That is not the point if you understood what he was saying. Stop pretending like you do. Your reply to my commdng shows you're not from around here, which is why you can't understand the meaning behind this myTake.

    • bekkesmash

      @vyvyn As I said... not the crux, but still something said. Can you nor understand basic semantics and syntax?

    • vyvyn

      @bekkesmash. No, when you say "Your post literally says women are prostitutes" it means you're referring to the crux of the message.

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  • sedrftvgyhujik
    i hate the wall as well
  • Interesting myTake
  • justiceee
    gooodd
  • Anonymous
    One thing that you forgot to mention is that male sperm also deteriorates with age, generally after 35 - same as women.
    • No it doesn't. Their is no point in wear men stop being able to reproduce, however as they age they do get lower levels of testosterone which usually doesn't happen until 50s which if they stop produceing enough they can become less effective at it. That's why I stated they can potentially reproduce indefinitely, as long as their levels don't drop beyond a certain point which is different for every man and is not something that just happens naturally.

    • Anonymous

      You sure about that? Check the research!

    • I did. Male sperm production is permanent barring a large drop in testosterone. That doesn't mean its going to necessarily not get more difficult as they get older but again, this is due to testosterone and that is based upon individual genetics and how they treat themselves. Unless it drops considerably (which it won't generally due so much later in life (at a time when its highly unlikely he will even want to reproduce) their is minimal issue with his ability to reproduce. You might be thinking of some recent data that suggests that under certain circumcstances a mans sperms DNA can degenerate over time and thus as they get older it can increase the risk of defects, however that's relatively recent study and its not been thoroughly researched yet. Their are those who reproduce in their 80s (I have no idea why any man would want to) and have had perfectly normal children.

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  • Anonymous
    Women are disgusting leaches.
  • Anonymous
    Good Take
  • Anonymous
    There's always going to be differences
    • Of course, their are things that are better for women then for men and vice versa, men have greater desirability when they are older, women when they are younger, women have a shorter period of time to reproduce then men, men have shorter life spans. Mytake was not about their not being differences but rather that many women seem not to know it, they think and to be fair its because society constantly tells them, that they will be desirable no matter their age and that's not true. It would be like telling men that they shouldn't work hard because money doesn't matter. Its nice to think that but that's not how society or women work. Women want to know a man has resources, families are expensive and child birth and rearing is incredibly expensive and time consuming. I just wanted to be able to inform women of what happens and why. Its no different then smoking, you have every right to do it, its your life but no one should tell you its healthy when its not.

    • As long as you accept those risks then its fine live your life in what ever way you deem appropriate, that's all any one can do, but I just don't want women to do this without knowing the possible ramifications. If they make the choice it should be an informed one.

  • Anonymous
    well written
  • Anonymous
    Very interesting take...
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