Why the Wall Affects Men and Women Differently

[hellionthesagereborn]

This was a response I wrote for @Audiofox's question, "why does the "wall" exist for women but not for men?", upon writing I realized how long it was and thought it would be better to just put it in the form of a mytake instead of half a dozen responses. Its my first mytake so I apologize if it comes off as amateurish.

So the reason why women are more affected by the wall is simply because men gain over time and women lose over time. Thats not to say a mans desirability period is infinite, its not, but men gain in the long run, women in the short run. Basically it has to do with what women want and what men want. Women want resources, pregnancy is resource intensive and hinders a womans ability to acquire resources. So when looking for a long term partner she will look for a man with resources. This benefits the older man as he has a greater amount of time to acquire his resources, to build a nest egg or career or to move up the social ranks. The more time he has to do this(and ambition which is why women love an ambitious man because it means greater resources down the line) the more resources/status he can accumulate.

Meanwhile for men they are looking for women who are able to reproduce sucessfully. Reproduction for women is far more physically intensive for women then it is for men so for a woman her body is the means by which she barters when it comes to reproduction and relationships. Thats why men go after certain types of women, for instance men liking big butts is actually about the womans ability to survive the child birth process with minimal damage(as even after birth the baby is entirely dependent on the mother for food for at least two years so if any complications arise the child will almost certainly die as well).

An example of the male desire for a physically robust body of a woman would be for example, liking bigger butts. Generally speaking it mean wider hips which of course means easier birthing but it also means a greater spinal curvature( of the lower spine) which actually helps function as a counter balance for when she is pregnant meaning less strain on the body and thus less wear and tear allowing for the greater probability of multiple births without real issue. This is why men are obsessed with a womans body, because it determines her ability to survive child birth. However time wears the body out for both men and women, that means the older a woman gets the harder pregnancy will be on her body and the longer it will take to recover and the greater the probability of complications(thats not even taking into account that older women are more likely to give birth to babies with genetic defects like autism and what not).

Then you have the issue that a man can, theoretically, be able to reproduce up until the day he dies with minimal issue, a woman however has a finite time to do so, after menopause she will be completely sterile. So time works against women and for men it works for them.Then you have the issue that men are against promiscuous women, they are willing to have sex with them as it means increased probability of reproducing but they are far less inclined to have a relationship with them becuase it increases the odds of raising a child(highly resource intensive) that is not theirs and potentially taking resources away from their own child thus reducing the likely hood of their child surviving to reproduce themselves.(this is also why women are less against promiscuous men because maternity is never in question for a woman, she is always aware that she reproduced the man is not).

Neotenous biological traits also are to be taken into consideration. These traits basically are traits that are held over from childhood, we all have them but women have more of them, for example thinner skin(25% thinner to be exact) which makes their skin softer, less muscle mass, less prounounced bone structure in the face, greater amount of and narrower channels for tears making women biologically more capable of crying then men etc. All of these trigger a response in our species that is very similar to that of our response to children, in short its something that incentivises us to protect women because of their similar traits with children(thats also why we find cute things cute, they have traits that are similar to our own young i.e. big eyes, over sized head etc). As women age however they begin to lose these traits, or rather they become less pronounced, this means that women get the strongest responses from men when they are young but as time progresses men are less increasingly less inclined to go out of their way for these women(not that they are mean to them but rather they are no longer as inclined to give them special privileges, or prioritizing these women over others).

Men also lose collagen(the substance that gives your skin structure) less quickly then women do at a rate of 1% a year after the age of 30 comparative to 2% a year for women(obviously how well you take care of yourself also affects rates). In addition men have greater muscle and bone mass/density then women which means that as time progresses they may lose that mass at a same rate but because they have more of it their bodies remain relatively resilient comparative to women thus giving them a longer period of time of "viability", or sexual attractiveness and resilience.

So all of these combined create the "wall", a point in a womans life where she becomes less desirable then before. This of course was not a problem before as we had marriage. Marriage was what helped prevent this phenomenon from occuring, women married young when they where most fertile to men who could take care of them, they married young and because sex outside of a marriage was seen as taboo these women would not be promiscuous so their was not wall. Now these women sleep around(not necessarily their fault they are told there are no consequences for it when their is most definitley consequences for it) which makes them less desirable for long term relationships, they live it up in their younger years when their neotenous biological traits are their most pronounced thus resulting in men being far more generous and amiable to them on top of having greater reproductive potential(this is why you will not see men buying drinks or showering old women with attention, they lack these things) but as time progresses this attention begins decreasing.

But then as time goes on they lose these traits and become increasingly more risky investments for reproduction as they age because again, increased risk of birth defects, death, and sterility, as well as many of these women slept around meaning an increased risk of providing for some one elses child which men are biologically inclined to avoid(not to mention the increased risks of divorce, cheating, unhappiness in long term relationships etc. which many studies have shown also occur). However as time begins running out these same women begin to realize the effect time is having on them and they realize they want a family they want a relationship so then they make a mad dash to find this before time runs out.

Men have now seen how this works and seen that rushed relationships like this with women who have never really been inclined towards them before ends poorly and thus have given the name of this phenomenon "the wall" the point of no return so to speak. That's not to say men do not also have a time limit only that these things do not affect us ad much so our "wall" is far less prominent and is rarely an issue to us as once we exit our youth we generally leave it with more resources then before and along with women being less against male promiscuity, have a less difficult time acquiring that relationship and family.

This is not me trying to preach, do with your life as you see fit, it is after all your life. However your actions do have consequences and while you may not like them, you may think they are "unfair" however that will not alter the fact that they do exist and you will experience them. As such its better to make an informed decision which in defense of all these women who have reached "the wall" they have not been properly educated on the matter like they should have been. People are not informed of this and told to live it up only to find out later in life that their was a reason our ancestors where against this mindset.

[cavmanier]

You have some good points even though I bet most women would feel highly offended by reading this.

I found this part most interesting
"Then you have the issue that men are against promiscuous women, they are willing to have sex with them as it means increased probability of reproducing but they are far less inclined to have a relationship with them because it increases the odds of raising a child (highly resource intensive) that is not theirs and potentially taking resources away from their own child thus reducing the likely hood of their child surviving to reproduce themselves"

That's an interesting possibility as to why we tend to find promiscuity unattractive (and the guys that do find it attractive are likely guys that just want women to act promiscuous to benefit their casual sex endeavors). I think a similar situation can be see with male promiscuity and cheating that explains why women tend to not like it as well though. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1alLLnXdwbQ

[hellionthesagereborn]

Oh absolutely women are against cheating, wasn't suggesting otherwise. I think that for cheating that its highly disruptive because it increases the odds that the man will abandon her and the child which is potentially lethal for both. The odd part is why women don't have as much an issue with a man having had previous partners as men are. I think it might have to do with women being risk averting and thus a man with previous partners must be a man who has value. Kind of like the other women show that he as value and is not dangerous. Though in my opinion that's not necessarily a good thing as increased partners means increased risk of cheating divorce etc. for men and women (though its more prominent in women).

[hellionthesagereborn]

So to clarify, women don't have an issue with men having had previous partners, to a point. Obviously once you hit a certain point they become just as adversed to it as men but again, I think they tolerate the man being "experienced" because of the reasons I stated, any more then that and they go into the territory of being a risk. Its also interesting to note that women actually hate promiscuity in women as well (probably because of the risk of the woman "stealing" their partner or prospective partner away).

[cavmanier]

A lot of the reason women don't tend to care about partner numbers could be cultural. Men have been in power for so long there is a history of left over precedent which females sort of have to accept or severely limit their options. I see the same movement for womens' promiscuity right now and at some point many guys are likely to choose having a positive attitude regarding it instead of what their natural inclination would be (they rationalize and conform).

Women hate promiscuity too (although that seems to be shifting due to sheep migrating). It could also be because during most of our evolution we didn't have the blue pill and sex with the whole block really was dangerous and not smart. It could be similar to putting ones hand in fire lol.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Actually men have never had "power". I mean consider who is the one who does all the dangerous work? Men. Who goes to war and gets sacrificed for the good of the society? Men. Who where expected to die on behalf of the other gender? Men. See that's something our culture doesn't like talking about. Men have always been disposable, women have not. For instance we never acknowledge that men couldn't vote for almost all of history. In fact in the US men only got the right to vote in 1853, that's only 67 years before women and that was only because they where forced into police, fire, and military service against their will, which they had done for all of history. Prior to that only the rich, which also included women depending on where you where at the time, where able to vote. In the UK it was even more recent, after WW1 was when they finally got the right to vote, this actually held up womens right to vote because they couldn't rightly give women the right while having the men who

[hellionthesagereborn]

where fighting and dying not be allowed to do so. Also most of what is stated about the past is complete myth created by various beneficial groups. For instance women always could work, in fact they have found lists of black smiths, several of which where women, dating as far back as the 1300s, its just women didn't want to because well, its incredibly rare that any one actually has a job that is desirable. Their are far more ditch diggers then lawyers and doctors. So I would still say its likely do to their risk aversion, as I said they definitely do not want a man who has been with a lot of women but they also don't want a man who has been with no woman either, however because our culture constantly talks about men as if we are only interested in sex (patently false) it could be that they are simply more inclined to expect a man to have been with other women, though again that wouldn't take into account their aversion to men who have not been with a woman at all.

[hellionthesagereborn]

But yes promiscuity historically would have been a very bad thing. That's why I point out to people who try to argue that its "natural" that if its so natural why do they use contraceptives, abortions, and modern medicine (antibiotics specifically) to prevent the natural outcome of that natural act? Because the natural outcome is potentially dangerous and destructive. We are most definitely wired to not want promiscuous people in our society, in fact one study found that promiscuous women don't even like promiscuous women. Its just not something that will benefit the society (or individual) in the long run with the rampant preganancies which historically could have been lethal and children raised with out fathers which has been shown to cause increased rates of criminality and depression among other things.

[cavmanier]

Well I think promiscuity is natural, but there is also a natural aversion to a person that does it I m o. I guess similar to like the desire to robbing a bank is natural, but not wanting people with that mentality in a person's life is natural too. I knew there is a reason I don't find sluttiness attractive even though the PC people have tried to change my option with illogical rationalizations. I figured it had something to do with self-control, patience and being choosy meaning the action means more. Yeah but many sjws are fighting natural emotions so that people aren't offended of course. Nothing new lol.

[cavmanier]

I've never heard white men couldn't vote in the US at least. I know there was a time when a person had to be a landowner or taxpayer. I agree that men have always been disposable in many ways. This scene from Titanic is quintessential.

cdn.images.express.co.uk/.../...l-scene-640443.jpg

Most feminist will look at that image and think, "men are oppressing women by acting like women can't handle danger and hardship." They always see it from how it can be negative to a woman of course lol. Clearly though there are many hardships men face that are completely muted by big rights groups.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Well yes and no (to the promiscuity remark). Evolution is a tinkerer so even as we change and evolve we still have old traits even if those traits are no longer useful as long as they don't hinder us they stick around. That's basically promiscuity, our oldest part of our brain (reptilian brain) is all for it as it was concerned more for immediate survival so produce as much offspring as you can as quickly as you can, however as we developed this method did not function nearly as well as our current one i. e. monogamy which allowed us to essentially have quality over quantity. The other issue is a lot of people think that we evolve to do something which is not really how evolution works, its reversed actually we do what ever the task may be and then those who do it better survive and flourish thus ensuring that those who do it better continue to survive and reproduce. So we are built for promiscuity but also not at the same time. Though as I have stated elsewhere so what? What works

[hellionthesagereborn]

is our current system, far better then promiscuity (fatherlessness really is damaging as well as promiscuity). Its like fried foods, they taste better but at the tend of the day they are worse for you then non fried foods so them tasting better and us having a biological predisposition for fatty foods really doesn't matter as they will end up doing us harm in the long run. As for your self control remark, that's also very true I think (though it could be a rationalization on our part) poor impulse control now probably means poor impulse control later which could increase ones suffering and drama which is best to avoid. And yeah, men could not vote, only the rich. Feminist have tried to rewrite history because its hard to be a victim when you mention that women and men couldn't vote. Or how men would be imprisoned for their wifes debt, or how as your example pointed out men where expected to die for women and while they try to spin it those women where not forced to leave, they hopped

[hellionthesagereborn]

into those boats quite willingly.(hence only 100 women dying (most where caught below deck and where cut off from the water flooding passages) as opposed to 1358 men). In fact this idea of women being oppressed is only possible because we are so adverse to seeing women harmed. Its rather ironic, we are biologically wired to care more about women then men because from a biological standpoint women are more important for reproduction then men. For example if we have ten women and ten men and nine men die we can still have ten offspring, but if the reverse happens and nine women die you can only get one. Women control the rates of reproduction and thus are more important then men. That's why men are more ambitious because we are replacable so any man who was not ambitious got replaced and did not reproduce. So everything men do is essentially to prove themselves to women. But I digress. As I said this mechanism is the only reason why feminism has had the power it has had since if women

[hellionthesagereborn]

where truly oppressed by men then why would men care? Yet we do, but when you mention things about men, things where men are suffering its generally ignored (like how we make up almost 80% of all suicides, 80% of the homeless, 98% of workplace accidents and deaths etc) because you cannot put a man in a position to protect you and thus be in danger and have the same level of empathy as you would some one you are trying to protect. I'm not saying that its a bad system, its what has kept us alive and what has driven our society forward culturally and technologically, its just frustrating that people don't seem to realize it which is where the problems occur.

[cavmanier]

I just saw your message. I think the perception of who the victim is mainly comes down to the general attitude of a society, and people rarely question it because if they do they end up appearing like a terrible-crazy person. The idea that women are victims is a cultural axiom and even questioning it causes massive uncomfortable feelings of basic thoughts of logic--like if up is up or up is now down. It's natural for people to protect their long held opinions to minimize the uncomfortable possibility.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Very true but as with everything their is usually an inclination towards a particular view, in this case biology which culture then magnifies by degrees dependent upon the particular beliefs of that culture. You are also correct that no one questions it. Like before trump won the election I was mentioning to people that we where a republic not a democracy and as such our popular vote was more of a suggestion rather then a deciding factor, however no one questioned our system. its interesting to note that in our own pledge of allegiance it states "and to the republic for which it stands" yet no one questioned it because so many others called us a democracy so often that it became the truth, as far as they where concerned anyway.

[Unit1]

i.pinimg.com/.../...8d6724946f6c920ba9d563ffa5.jpg

Well done!
There's a saying, that men age like wine while women age like milk.
Women may have the upper hand early on (especially in their teens and 20s and around my current age) because of their blooming beauty and fertility but once a decade passes it will be our turn. Meanwhile young women tend to be unable to see the potential of our younger versions but once they do it later when the time comes round it will be way too late.
It just is the way it is.
Justice in such regards will come. But long overdue of course.

"However your actions do have consequences and while you may not like them, you may think they are "unfair" however that will not alter the fact that they do exist and you will experience them. As such its better to make an informed decision"
media.giphy.com/media/l3BYm4CjQPvjy/giphy.gif
Precisely!
Everyone should have known.

I really loved this mytake!

[rocksongwriter]

@azzntittiz?

[Unit1]

Also girls *tend* to have either such a standard or just overly prefer the man, who has got it all and is ready - the full package INSTEAD of getting with someone maybe somewhat inexperienced and not yet so successful and to train him to be their perfect partner and join him in his adventure towards success. That's however just a love story for me.

@azzntittiz
Aaand
i.gyazo.com/c8be879aaa7ab26466409bb999d9b0ce.png
Gotcha! Buh-bye.

[COCOCHANEL]

always have found myself attracted to men in their prime age 19-22

[Unit1]

@COCOCHANEL nice :)
Well what can i say. You just like who you like.
But at the same time when women like the older and more resourceful men they fit just the criteria because it took so long to meet those criteria.

As for me i personally have a huge crush on a woman, who is in her late 30s or early 40s. She used to teach me mathematical programming when i was studying. There just was something about her. Her calm nature, niceness and just her personality got me. Also she looked very modest and adequate. ❤😍
So even if women reach their "wall", granted they have built it themselves it's up to them to decide how to live with it.

But you know... Butthurt Bigots are going to downvote 😉

[hellionthesagereborn]

Thank you. Yes the roles tend to reverse as time progresses. As for why they go for the stable guy, that's because again, pregnancy is pretty draining and dangerous and two women are biologically predisposed to be risk averting so they tend to take the cautious route which explains why they go for the guy who is already secure and is also why I think they preffer a guy with experience, because another woman already found him worth taking a risk on so its a reassurance for her that he is safe bet and she is taking less of a risk.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@COCOCHANEL Then your an exception. I never said this is absolute law, this is probability and tendency. Children like candy. Does that mean that the one child who doesn't proves that the first statement is entirely incorrect? No, it just means that their are exceptions. These are not rules, they are tendencies and probabilities.

[COCOCHANEL]

females are drawn to males in their physical prime. whether they act on it is another thing. i have always acted on it. one reason why women may not act on it, money is nice.

[Unit1]

Also i did specify, that i said women *tend* to do so. The disagreements are a natural reaction when my statements are either true and hurtful (truth hurts) or the readers missed this exact keypoint about tendencies (not all women do this). Or they are like i said butthurt bigots 😎

[COCOCHANEL]

reply was to hellionthesagereborn

[COCOCHANEL]

because you are the opinion owner clicking on your name does not display the @ link in the same way clicking on his name does not display the @ link due to him being the mytake owner

[COCOCHANEL]

also, am not quite sure why men are getting upset just because i'm saying that EVERYONE loses value when they don't take care and prevent ageing. it's like men are in denial that they are more loveable and wanted when they are in their physical prime? why is this such a hard thing to accept?

[COCOCHANEL]

and hellionthesagereborn, you are reinforcing what i'm saying about women only settling for men past their prime if they have more money than a guy in his prime. watch what happens if he loses his job or becomes financially ruined or suddenly doesn't have that money. stable is a euphemism.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@COCOCHANEL No it did not prove your point. As stated women gravitate towards men with resources, not just gold diggers but all women to some degree or another, your biologically wired for it. I mean its entirely possible a small fraction of women don't, but by and large the vast majority do. Their is nothing wrong with this as I pointed out its natural just as their is nothing wrong with a man wanting an attractive woman, again its natural. Its only an issue if that's the only thing that matters (for both). Study after study shows this to be true. www.smh.com.au/.../...partner-20151001-gjyyot.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...k-paid-job-partner.html
As for saying men have a time limit, I don't find that offensive in fact I pointed that out in my take. I simply stated that because men age slower and have more collagen that they (all else being equal) will age slower then women and have a longer period of time for reproducing.

[COCOCHANEL]

why don't you want to acknowledge that if given the choice women want to be with an attractive man with a youthful appearance? you want to label me as an exception so that you can keep believing that women aren't visual. women are visual. men are visual. lets accept it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@COCOCHANEL No one said women where not visiual, what was stated was that women preffer a man with resources, not an ugly man with resources. Women preffer older men, as I have already provided you links to the surveys and data that backs this claim I don't feel I need to do it here. As stated, women preffer older men. Here is yet another link proving this point: en.wikipedia.org/.../Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships

[Unit1]

That moment when you include Wikipedia. 😱😱😱😱
The horror!
https://i.imgur.com/o3vB1SJ.gif

[COCOCHANEL]

women of any age would prefer an attractive man in his prime (20s) with money over an older somewhat attractive man with money.

www.google.co.jp/.../

[Unit1]

@COCOCHANEL yeah well maybe but men get the money only when they are older. If it was possible to make good money by 18 then there would be no shortage of such guys.

[COCOCHANEL]

some young guys do have money

[Unit1]

@COCOCHANEL yeah. If their parents are rich.
There was Elliot Rodger but her was also a virgin at my age. And died as one.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yeah, but I provided her with so many other links on other comments that I got lazy with this one. At least they have citations on this one.

[COCOCHANEL]

there are a fair amount of rich men in their 20s, some self-made, some born into it.

[COCOCHANEL]

throwing links at people doesn't make you right.

women do not prefer men past their physical prime. until recently women were forced to marry men with money, ugly, old, etc. arranged marriages were the norm. have you seen titantic? read jane austen? the man's money was everything. the women who still marry for money and not love are just golddiggers. they want the easy life.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@COCOCHANEL Arranged marriages where not the norm. In some places sure but not most. As for the links, they show statistical data, data from tens and even hundreds of thousands of people and you are going to claim that your one view counters all of those? That's asinine. You cannot speak for the hundreds of thousands of women out their who according to data disagree with you. That's it. Their is no argument, your wrong period. Move on. I'm getting sick of your denial of basic facts, facts which I have shown to be statistically untrue multiple times and from multiple sources. www8.cao.go.jp/.../f03.gif
i2.wp.com/.../marriage_age_difference_c.jpg
espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/.../chalabi-datalab-age.png
1.bp.blogspot.com/.../sweden_marriage_age.jpg
The first is japan. I rest my case so move on.

[COCOCHANEL]

why should i move on because of a few measly studies? there are billions of people in the world. more studies will be done that will prove my point. times are changing. accept it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@COCOCHANEL Why should you change because of a few studies that completely disprove your stance? Gee, I don't know. You know their is a phenomenone where after proving some one wrong instead of them accepting the information they simply double down and become more convinced then ever that they are right. Guess what your doing right now? Their is no point in discussing this with you as you are perfectly content in living a lie and denying all facts that show you are doing just that. I don't feel like wasting my time with this, you have been thoroughly disproved, I have done my part.

[COCOCHANEL]

did you read the studies i posted?

[lord_chilled]

Nice take. I think men hit the wall as well, its just that, we dont really give a shit. Like we had to pursue women in the first place, now it may have gotten a bit harder.

But for women, especially when she was very attractive in her youth, hitting the wall can be a very difficult experience.
Its sad to see sometimes older women putting on a lot of makeup and trying wayy too hard to dress in revealing outfits and trying to be sexy. No disrespect, but its honestly off putting.
Older women can be very classy in regular dresses or clothes and come across as genuinely respectable and attractive, just like some old men look very intelligent and respectable.
You can tell thise ladies were incredibly sexy back in the day and are still attractive. But the women that act very desperate and slutty or genuinely offputting, at least to me.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I would not call it a wall, I think its more gradual in men then women which is what I alluded to, because we age slower and have more muscle, bone and collagen in our skin so we have more of it to lose then women plus a potentially semi-permanent ability to reproduce.

[lord_chilled]

Thats right i guess

[10dsw]

I really don't like this wall talk but I do think that a lot of women are a bit naive when it comes to the fact that they face a wall and sooner than men.

I mean I think it's kind of amusing when I run into 30 y/o women who ask where all the good men have gone and yet fucked 200+ guys between 20-30 only as opposed to looking to build a solid family.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Actually believe it or not I was talking to a woman like last week who has serious money. And she was saying how she wants to get married, have kids and raise a family, yet I have seen this women bring different men up to her condo at 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning. Obviously I don't know what they are doing in her apartment but I'm pretty sure the guy didn't come over to watch TV only. Lol

She is a very sweet and friendly woman, but she looks like she is in her early 40's, know she really want to settle down and start a family. I was shaking my head within my head when she was telling me that. Lol

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

*now

[10dsw]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy LOL you should have been like "I'm sure some of your nightly suitors could potentially make for husband material"

But yes, there's a prime example of what I mean

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Lol I will never do that... Too mean.

[hellionthesagereborn]

I agree, its not something I like talking about but the fact is our society has been not only silent about the issue but in fact has given women false information that they end up finding out is wrong far to late. I don't think that's fair. Its like smoking, you have every right to do it, no one has the right to stop you and if its your choice its your choice. But its not right for the person to be told its healthy when its not, as long as they understand the risks then they can choose what ever they want to do and what ever they feel works for them, but they should at least be able to make an informed decision about it.

[alessandro_02]

media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

I'm impressed. This is a very factual take and honestly the best I've ever read here so far. You clearly put a lot of thought into this.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Thank you. I did indeed try to put as much information and thought into this as I could. I wanted to explain it as thoroughly as possible.

[MzAsh]

It's good for women who don't want kids. They don't need or want a man's resources and they don't have to be pressured to get a man locked down by the time her eggs stop producing. None of that matters to a woman who doesn't care about having kids. They can then turn away all the men who might demand a family, and choose a man who also doesn't want to have kids, which I have found there to be a lot of. Hell I think most men only say they want kids because they don't plan on being the primary care taker. If men took involvement with child raising, the world would be a hell of a lot less populated.

[hellionthesagereborn]

But most women do? You do see that last minute rush by these women, either trying to lock down a man or getting pregnant and taking his resources (child support, welfare etc.). Or they adopt. Its really common. I mean sure the handful of women that say they don't want kids and then actually end up not wanting kids or long term relationships may not have an issue with this but they are really rare. That's why more women then men reported wanting to get married. Its also probably why women are more depressed now then they where in the fifties, because the traditional system that benefited them is not the system we use today. Men absolutely are involved in their children's life, in fact the real issue is that women have prevented men from being in their childs life through divorce and child custody laws that only benefit the woman. Further more men have to be the bread winners so they have to work more then the woman because women demand it.

[MzAsh]

I think a lot of women want kids and to do the traditional think because they *think* they want it. They think that's what they are supposed to do, but I bet many of them would be happier not having kids or at least waiting another 5-10 years to do so.

I think the biggest mistakes women are making that leads to their dissatisfaction and depression is: 1. Choosing the wrong men. 2. Choosing the wrong role in life for themselves, 3. Abiding by traditional standards at all, 4. Getting married and having kids too early in life and too early in the relationship.

I think they would be wise to take some more time to think about what they really want and not what they are supposed to want because society and history told them.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Actually most women want kids because its what they are biologically predisposed to want. If people didn't want kids we would not exist as a species. Women are currently being told they don't want a family so they party focus on their jobs then they get to the "wall" and then realize they are miserable and unhappy and they want that family (as they are biologically predisposed to want). That's why you see these women start trying everything in their power to get a relationship, have children etc. I mean statistically women in the 50s where happier then women now. Statistically women who are stay at home mothers are happier then women who are not, traditional women are happier then non traditional women.
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...en-HAPPY-housewife.html
www.kstatecollegian.com/.../
www.redbookmag.com/.../

[MzAsh]

Maybe most women want all that, but I just know I'm not most women.

[bekkesmash]

"They don't need or want a man's resources" It's called a prostitute.

[bekkesmash]

Disregard that, I misread.

[HoneyButterCup525]

Hey I'm a 31 year old female who doesn't want kids and sure of it. So the whole biological clock doesn't stress me out.

[NJ_Casanova]

Walls to expensive... should have an Electrified fence...

www.expatmonkey.com/.../0818f.jpg

or a couple rows of Bangolre wire.

cdn.dvidshub.net/.../1000w_q75.jpg

They will obviously get hurt bad... and need medical attention... at which there is none for them for miles.

I like the Ideal of THE USA making making a massive river/canals... free up travel and can make money with shipping. Tall concrete walls sides and deep water will probably cause any trespasser to drown.

i.dailymail.co.uk/.../...e-a-116_1467123035697.jpg

[Browneye57]

TLDR. Geez.

A woman's youth and beauty are her greatest assets. So as they age they start to lose that - by forty it's almost gone.

Men are valued by their ability, their leadership and financial status, as well as their handsome good looks. Those things just gain and accumulate over time to reach a peak around 35-40.

A good looking guy with lots of money that has a good physique can pull women from 25 to 60. Pretty much the full age range of available women. But why would he pick a fifty if he can get a twenty?

[WalterRadio]

So many women spend the most fertile years of their lives trying desperately not to get pregnant, then as they are far less fertile, trying desperately to get pregnant.

Just an observation.

[vyvyn]

One of the most informed nyTakes I've read. To all the guys on GaG who bashed me for asserting that casual sex is bad, here is another counter argument.

[bekkesmash]

It explains women as prostitutes, that need resources from men before they have sex with them.

[vyvyn]

@bekkesmash No that's not the message the take is trying to get across.

[bekkesmash]

It certainly isn't the crux of the take, but this take still says women are prostitutes that need a man's resources as a prerequisite to having sex with him.

[vyvyn]

@bekkesmash No. Prostitution is an occupation.

[vyvyn]

@bekkesmash "need a man's resources as a prerequisite to having sex with him." That is not what he is implying.

[bekkesmash]

Needing a guy to be a money making prospect that will spend on you and future offspring is prostitution... and an occupation semantically.

[vyvyn]

@bekkesmash What are you talking about? You don't make sense.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@bekkesmash Who said that? No one. Read the take again if your confused.

[COCOCHANEL]

oh i see that you have this conversation with many.

there very much is a wall for men and it often happens sooner because many think it's ok to let themselves go. the only women who want to be with visibly aged, overweight men are those who see them as wallets.

[alessandro_02]

Some men. At least where I live, most my guy friends have been gym rats for a while now. All of us (including much older guys) have aged much better than the girls our age. It's all a matter of choice for men to be lazy and let themselves go or work towards their income and physical goals.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Again, as I pointed out in mytake yes their is a wall, but its not really a wall so much as a slow incline. We age slower, our body has more bone density and muscle density and collagen so we lose it at a slower rate and have more of it which slows the affect down. Also as I pointed out in the take, yes how you treat your body will accelerate or slow down this process so some women will still look attractive in old age and some men will look unattractive when young. Again, this was all stuff I stated in my take.

[COCOCHANEL]

i have read profusely on the topic of ageing and i am under the impression that it's just the opposite, from mens' facial muscles moving more vigorously leading to wrinkle formation (ask any cosmetic surgeon) to the shortening of the Y chromosone, in general men show ageing sooner than women.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

That's why many men in their 40's look like they're in their late 20's, while women in their late teens look like they're in their 30's.

It all makes sense now...

[COCOCHANEL]

@Barrabus_the_Free i'm not sure what women you're looking at but i see men in their 20s with wrinkles, sagging cheeks and receding hairlines. look around.

[COCOCHANEL]

@Barrabus_the_Free actually, how about you show me? show me these men in their 40s who look like they're in their 20s. not celebrities who get facelifts. regular men.

[COCOCHANEL]

”Did you know that men get wrinkles earlier than women? This was one of the conclusions from a Dutch study conducted by Erasmus MC. Men do not only get wrinkles at a younger age, they also get more of them. Ultimately, of course, women cannot escape it, because growing older without wrinkles is not possible. Actually, 65% of UK men state that there is nothing wrong with spending money on products to reduce wrinkles thus confirming they also have them.”

why be hardheaded? just take steps to prevent or treat.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Don't know why you think I'm saying men don't age, they do, but they age slower. I also mentioned that all else being equal meaning that how you treat your body does have an affect. I don't know what your arguing because your not arguing against anything I have said. That's whats confusing here. But here is all the information that shows that men do in fact age slower: www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...ences_n_7645204.html
I really don't understand why your getting upset over this. That's like me vehemently denying that women live longer then men, I mean whats the point of arguing what is provably true? Its not personal, its not as if their are not advantages to being a woman (like less likely to get most diseases and living longer). So why argue it? We can't have it all, best except it because its not going to change.

[COCOCHANEL]

i have been reading about medical and nutrition since i was a teenager and i never read about women ageing faster than men. from personal experience i do think it depends on the individual's dna but men tend to age faster probably because of lifestyle choices.

i am saying that there are studies that show that men age faster but more than that, women care about mens' appearance

[burpzzzzz]

I'm in my late 40's and I have been told I look in my early 20's. I look younger because I'm fasting on a regular basis. www.telegraph.co.uk/.../...-add-years-to-life.html

[burpzzzzz]

If men age sooner why aren't men wearing make up? It's women that wear tons of make up.

[burpzzzzz]

"Regardless of age, men have a higher collagen density than women; this is the ratio of collagen to the thickness of the skin. Researchers believe that the higher collagen density accounts for why women appear to age faster than men of the same age. When considering intrinsic (genetically-programmed) aging of the skin, it has been said that women are about 15 years older than men of the same age. Of course, the role of daylight exposure in skin aging, combined with the fact that men do not use sunscreen as often as women, may account for why we do not readily notice. Extrinsic aging from UV radiation can add years to a man’s skin and negate the benefit of slower intrinsic aging."
www.dermalinstitute.com/.../...lly_Different_.html

[bekkesmash]

90% OF WOMEN ARE LITERALLY WHORES/PROSTITUTES

[COCOCHANEL]

@burpzzzzz you are an exception and you are doing what i am recommending! taking steps to prevent ageing!

it depends on the country but most women in western countries don't wear makeup. i personally usually only wear UV blocking day cream unless i'm taking pictures.

[COCOCHANEL]

@bekkesmash thank you for agreeing that women who choose to be with men they find less physically attractive are golddiggers

[burpzzzzz]

LOL Western women don't wear makeup? Do you seriously think I was born yesterday? Even Asian women are wearing make up now. They are also getting plastic surgery because they want to look like a Western woman.

[COCOCHANEL]

@burpzzzzz not sure what you mean by ”even Asian women wear makeup now” LOL
lots of makeup has been the norm forever in asia. whether traditional or western makeup. come on. japanese women spent way more on cosmetics back in the 80s even. it's a WAY bigger market. every girl loves makeup here. and they aren't getting surgery to look like white women, they are aiming for Asian looking eurasian features which is basically the same thing as ”pretty” Asian features which have always existed in east asia but weren't common like big eyes. never been common but there have always been some people like that here.

i lived in the america and saw thousands of people everyday. many women don't wear makeup there.

[burpzzzzz]

Asian women want to look like white women. Being white is kind and that's why in south Korea it is common to get double eye lid surgery to look white.

[COCOCHANEL]

@burpzzzzz repeating, it's not to look white. there are east Asians who are born with double lid and an elevated nose with a bridge

[burpzzzzz]

Sure it is. Even black women want to look white by using skin bleaching cream. From what I know even South Korea sells skin care with skin bleaching cream.

[burpzzzzz]

@alessandro_02 10 Korean Skin Whitening Products that Actually Work
skinlightskinbright.com/.../

15 Japanese Skin Whitening Products for Translucent, Milky White Skin
skinlightskinbright.com/.../

[COCOCHANEL]

@burpzzzzz it's not to look like a white person. they think they are above whites. trust me.

[raspberry0416]

What cracks me up is you thought traditional marriage "helped" women. It did not sweetheart. Women do age and become less desirable over time. Men were philanderers and took mistresses. Nowadays at least women have financial independence and don't have to put up with men who disrespect them.

[azzntittiz]

Imagined that being the case back then when the men who *owned* women grew bored of them.

[azzntittiz]

*I imagined*

[raspberry0416]

@azzntittiz
Yes exactly

[hellionthesagereborn]

Traditional marriage did in fact help women, that's really absurd to suggest otherwise. They had resources, a house, food, security, and a family while the man worked anywhere between 50 hours a week to 100 hours (depending on the time period) in order for her to do so. Why do you think its women who always pushed for marriage? Why do you think its women who still push for marriage? Right now men are not wanting to get married and women are getting increasingly jaded because of it. Its women claiming men who don't want to get married are not "maning up" or are "afraid of commitment" not men. Men where not philanderers and no they did not take mistresses. I mean, I might as well say all women are cheaters and took lovers, just because some did doesn't mean all or most did. In fact the rate of cheating by men has stayed the same its about 20% which is only slightly higher then women who are a little over 15%(or higher depending on the study).

[hellionthesagereborn]

@raspberry0416 @azzntittiz As for cheating, women could and did divorce for that, as well as if the man was abusive or if the man was not providing her as she felt he should at which point she could separate and take alimony where he would pay her a stipen for the rest of his life or until she got remarried (if he was lucky). Men never owned women and that's just a moronic statement. If a woman incurred debt it was her husband who had to pay it or go to jail. She could leave him at any time if he failed in providing for her and take his money and his children from him (not unlike today). If she cheated on him the only thing he could do is sue her lover for wages lost during the time of the affair (lost because he was providing for her). In fact seduction laws as they where called where entirely in the favor of women (men could go to prison for sleeping with a woman if she claimed he promised to marry her or even thought he would marry her). So no, women where never owned ever.

[azzntittiz]

Women were very unhappy, it's late and I am up working on my business, I don't need you to provide for me, thank you :)

[hellionthesagereborn]

@azzntittiz Okay, not really an argument but statistically women are happier in traditaionl marriages, they preffer financial stability and they where happier in the 50's comparative to now all of which disproves your point, not that I didn't already do that.
www.slate.com/.../desperate_feminist_wives.html
parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/.../
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...n-happy-years-ago-.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...en-HAPPY-housewife.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...k-paid-job-partner.html
www.salon.com/.../
So everything I stated is accurate, backed by objective data. I'm sorry that it offends you but these are the facts.

[burpzzzzz]

Only wealthy men had a 2nd woman, most men didn't have the means to do so.

[azzntittiz]

I'm not clicking that shit, and no I don't believe you, men make me miserable, they only care about themselves.

[raspberry0416]

He's exactly the kind of guy that makes women miserable.

[bekkesmash]

Look how many women are still prostitutes that need a man's resources as a prerequisite to sex.

[azzntittiz]

@bekkesmash Because men are gate keepers of the world's greatest opportunities. The keep women down in anyway they can, plenty prostitutes have a story that start with a man ruining her life and sending her in that direction.

[bekkesmash]

As long as you acknowledge that you guys are whores.

[burpzzzzz]

@azzntittiz What of bunch of bs. There's more educated women than men now.

[azzntittiz]

@bekkesmash Your mom too.

[azzntittiz]

@burpzzzzz Educated women that become intimidating to men, they in turn face more workplace sabotage and get discredited all the way because she's suppose to sit and look pretty and just shut up. Or he likes when you pretend you need him to help with the simplest thing.
Did you know how I became a stripper?, and even then I was the best dancers and the guys at work, still set the other jealous women to attack me, because they didn't like that I was professional and was actually building an independent life out of it. Women are forever dealing with men and their foolishness.

[raspberry0416]

@azzntittiz
Don't worry about the hateful trolls. They're not worth it.

[oddwaffle]

Every gender have walls. The men just come at a much later point, around their 60s compare to women, around their early 40s.

Men get more matured, stable, wise and richer as they age. These are very desirable traits from the women's point of view.

This means men popularity increases over time amount younger women unless he has something really bad.

On the other hand, an older woman is less desirable amount the men. The men don't really care about stability or rich.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

Early 40's?

Damn you're generous. By about 14 years.

[oddwaffle]

@Barrabus_the_Free

Hahaha. Women these days have a lot of tricks. You're still within the limits before turning into cougars at 40s.

[Barrabus_the_Free]

I guess that depends on the guy that's viewing them. I know a lot of the tricks they attempt, as well as how to see through their deceptions to their true age, and I won't bother with a post-Wall (older than 29) woman for anything except MAYBE a fuck, and then only if my sex drive is on a rampage.

But to each his own. You do you, bro.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes that's what I said, we all age its just that women have it happen sooner because they age faster and have a limited window of opportunity to reproduce comparative to men plus what we go for is different.

[Anonymous]

"this is why you will not see men buying drinks or showering old women with attention"
Not drinks, but when my (widowed) mom was in her mid-50s, a fairly good-looking 60 year old man at her workplace wanted to buy a house and move with her out to the city. She wasn't interested, but he still calls her every weekend to talk.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Your talking about something completely different then what I was saying. Please read what was written and discuss that. A man in his sixties interested in a woman around his age isn't that odd, he isn't looking to start a family or anything. Again, as I stated before, read what I wrote first, then comment, don't just take this as some grand attack against women (its not (its no different then a woman saying she isn't going to waste her time on a man who has no job and lives in his parents basement (yet no one seems to find issue with that but the moment you point out that their are similar rules for women and we get anecdotal evidence that only relates partially to what was stated (if at all) and misses the point entirely because women currently are too afraid of the idea that their actions have consequences so they need to actually care about how they live their lives).

[MasterSirMaster]

My head hurts... what's with all words? This is SO simple...

Men are attracted to looks, women are attracted to wealth, status, and resources. Men can alway build and have wealth, status, and resources, women only have looks for a limited time.

[lazermazer]

I see a wall of text , lol.
It's good take but a bad wall.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yeah, I don't know how to provide the amount of information I feel is necessary with out it turning into a book.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Let's be clear men don't like older women because older women start to look like a old mop.

It really doesn't have to do with her ability to get pregnant. Lol. It's about looks bro.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Why do you find certain things attractive? Because you are biologically inclined to do so. Why are you biologically inclined to do so? Because it increases the odds of your genes surviving. That's why unhealthy doesn't look attractive because that person is not going to provide you with a healthy offspring and thus are more likely to have that offspring die before they are able to reproduce. It has everything to do with getting pregnant and having a solid genetic makeup to ensure healthy offspring.

[Anonymous]

One thing that you forgot to mention is that male sperm also deteriorates with age, generally after 35 - same as women.

[hellionthesagereborn]

No it doesn't. Their is no point in wear men stop being able to reproduce, however as they age they do get lower levels of testosterone which usually doesn't happen until 50s which if they stop produceing enough they can become less effective at it. That's why I stated they can potentially reproduce indefinitely, as long as their levels don't drop beyond a certain point which is different for every man and is not something that just happens naturally.

[Opinion Owner]

You sure about that? Check the research!

[hellionthesagereborn]

I did. Male sperm production is permanent barring a large drop in testosterone. That doesn't mean its going to necessarily not get more difficult as they get older but again, this is due to testosterone and that is based upon individual genetics and how they treat themselves. Unless it drops considerably (which it won't generally due so much later in life (at a time when its highly unlikely he will even want to reproduce) their is minimal issue with his ability to reproduce. You might be thinking of some recent data that suggests that under certain circumcstances a mans sperms DNA can degenerate over time and thus as they get older it can increase the risk of defects, however that's relatively recent study and its not been thoroughly researched yet. Their are those who reproduce in their 80s (I have no idea why any man would want to) and have had perfectly normal children.

[hellionthesagereborn]

So its hard to say at the moment what it is, that is is it inherent or is it how they live (some data suggests ejaculating every day can reduce the risk of these potential defects in men). But that's why I said they have a potentially life long ability to reproduce.

[John_Doesnt]

The wall is evil, the wall was invented by Lucifer himself, the wall is from Hades and Hell combined! Hear my words, the wall is bad!

[zagor]

Why does that picture show the wall knocking down an umpire?

[cavmanier]

Because the wall makes it's own rules

[hellionthesagereborn]

Because comics from back in the day where weird.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

Very well written. All true

[hellionthesagereborn]

Thank you.