They’ve had the right to vote since 1920 in the USA… Everything else since then has just been an entitlement.
Can’t be fired for pregnancy: It’s nice that if I get seriously ill now (FMLA), I won’t lose my job for at least 12 weeks, but as a man I could have been fired for having medical problems before just like women could have been fired for being pregnant. It wasn’t an equality issue, it was a workers rights issue. Both sexes benefited from it.
Can’t get a credit card: A bank should be able to extend or refuse to extend credit to whoever the want. They are letting you borrow something and risking never getting it back. If I walked up to you on the street and said open your purse and give me all your money I need it and might pay it back… If you don’t do it your are discriminating, you’d probably call the cops on me. That’s preferential treatment not equality.
Equal Employment/Affirmative action: It’s total bullshit. Having the correct skills and experience is the equal way to approach employment. Once you start giving special treatment based on gender, race, religion, etc. you’ve started to discriminate. Again that’s preferential treatment not equality.
Equal pay: Companies should be able to negotiate what they are willing to pay an employee and employees should have the mind to walk away if they aren’t willing to do the job for the pay they are being offered. It’s as simple as that. All this really does is create more job titles to legal protect a company from litigation and screwed up the free market.
Reproductive Freedom: Abortion isn’t equality. Men don’t have the right to abort a child they don’t want.
Faultless divorce: Total disaster. Divorce rates went way up. Discrimination against men went way up. Kids ruined. Families destroyed. Men robbed. Mental health problems through the roof especially for women. Declining marriage rate.
Rape/Sexual harassment: Total disaster. All kinds of frivolous lawsuits, false allegations, etc. A lot of men and women can’t get along anymore. Discrimination against men up.
Military roles: Well it’s good that they can serve in the military and fight on the front line, but they have no obligation to fight on the front line like men nor do they have to register for selective service. Men are forced into slavery and have to risk losing their lives and women are not. It’s the largest inequality injustice of all.
That's exactly what Modern Feminism is trying to achieve. Not all women but some crazy ones.
I support equality but there are so many misguided definitions out there caused by toxic feminists that are entirely nonsense and unequal to an extend. Which represents what you've just mentioned. Equal rights but no equal responsibilities.
Equality means an equal treatment based on our qualities rather than solely based on our gender. There has to be an opportunity for everyone in every field for all people regardless of gender.
But then we have Feminism who came and brainwashing women that they must seek quality everywhere and anywhere to a point where they actually insult women who make a conscious choice to be a housewife. Just one side of the example that would be. Or they expect to be paid the same amount of salary as their male counterpart regardless of Quality, skill set, Value, Contribution Level and Position but only based on gender.
They speak about equality as a form of forcing women to involve everywhere and anywhere a man exists but the reality is that is not happening and never will. Those women speak about equality but they still don't come forward to take difficult jobs. The most life risking and difficult jobs still dominated by men. So what happened to equality there? to some women and crazy feminists equality matters as long as it benefits women. The biological truth is that women on average are not as ambitious as men and they are more family orientated that men and they are not as career driven as men. But Feminists working so hard to force women into workplace for equality. It's so hilarious.
I quote Bonnie McFarlane a female Feminist comedian who makes a mockery on those illogical Feminist ideas that are fraud on her stand up: [Whoo the future is female. . . are you still gonna pay for everything? is that deal still on the table? i'm more of a Feminist in the morning when no one is trying to buy me anything. . . lol]. That sums it up a lot.
This is a fantastic question and a question which needs to be addressed. As I read the men’s responses on here, I see anger and frustration towards women and I understand that.
I would say to not let the behavior and attitude of women who take advantage of the institution of feminism to ruin the good standing women who have worked so hard to get to the top.
For me, I’ve worked very hard in my career. Twice as hard as men sometimes to even get noticed or taken seriously in the workplace. I don’t expect a cent from any man and think no other woman should expect anything they haven’t earned.
The problem with this issue is that society hasn’t completely caught up with feminism. What I mean is that when you go on a date with a woman and she expects you to pay, that is what her parents taught her growing up. “Don’t ever date a man who can’t take care of you.” I think in this idea, it’s confusing for everyone. I dated a man who didn’t pay a cent for anything, I paid for it all and I understand how men feel now.
The standard of "never date anyone who can't take care of you" (which is theoretically older than patriarchy) results in women strictly looking to date men of at least equal or greater status, competency and genetics. It seems to be all women are even attracted to. Men are allegedly attracted to generally a wider range of women relative to themselves.
Anyway, after dating that guy who didn't have to pay, do you still look to date equal or better? Has the experience caused you to more fervently apply this standard- (double down on it)? Or do you instead date in the way men women who aren't as successful?
@Lightning8 oh I see what you are saying. Well, I don’t think I would want to date someone who drained me of all my resources. I don’t think anyone should put up with someone who won’t contribute in some way. There are women who insist on being treated like a princess by her man.
I’ve always gone Dutch on dates or sometimes one person pays for one date and the other person pays the next date.
As far as success goes, I’m a Park Ranger so I usually just date who ever is around which is usually other outdoor oriented men. The whole money thing doesn’t matter to me but I wouldn’t date someone who sat on his ass all day.
In all honesty, neither gender wants it. Regardless of gender people want to enjoy their rights but dread taking its due responsibilities. And people do it when they have the chance to. Where I live society is still very patriarchal dispute women looking like they are 'progressing' on the outside when it comes to education and employment. The real deal is, over here women have to now maintain BOTH household work AND office job here because men still have the mindset that cooking and looking after kids is the woman's job but men are still convinced that their wives earn as much as them so they don't have to work as hard into providing for the family.
The reason men are being able to get away with it is because our society is structured to favor men. People just don't miss these chances 🤷
I'm not defending guys who genuinely put off both of those expectations on their women. But generally if a man isn't smart, strong, independant, individually accomplished and successful, he can't hope for a family or even just love. Most women can have this without all of that.
Yes they want more then equal right the feminist that I've spoke with feel that men owe them something, I'm an older gentleman I was raised to be a gentleman so it's easy for them to take advantage of me, the things I was taught to be a gentleman I am now being scolded and ridiculed for the chivery I was taught, I don't ask anyone out on dates anymore and when I am asked I immediately say how is the pay schedule going to be are you asking me out on a date and you are paying or are you assuming that I am paying because you're a woman I never got a free meal I think that should be enough of free meals if they want to be in the 2020 year it is time for either at go neutral or they start paying, eye problems with my car my motorcycle my RV that need to be repaired they better start getting their hands greasy and take care of me, there are things broken in the house they better start fixing them or calling someone to fix them and paying for it, cuz I'm going to go shopping right now on their dime I'm even thinking of having kids just so I can get half of whatever they make I'm going to be a stay-at-home dad, my hair needs to be done I should get a manicure and a pedicure and I saw this real cute leather outfit that'll go great with my motorcycle as I ride around looking hot and sexy for all to see and when they get jealous I'll just say what? They're just friends? Don't get jealous? Oh yeah I have to go food shopping or are we going to go out to eat every night 365 days a year or order have all kinds of new order online stuff we could do that, I saw this man purse for $800 it's a deal I think I might go buy it on their dime, it's only $800, yeah my car is also a little ratty it's going to break down any any minute now you wouldn't want me to break down on the freeway with a ratty car I need a new car on their dime, oh I have nothing to wear I need new shoes too the boots I saw were only $1,100, I saw this cute fur jacket so it was awesome with only $2,200 on their dime, my phone isn't working right I want the new phone I want that new iPhone I know I have the old iPhone but I want the new one now, and the kitchen needs painting it needs to be remodeled I don't like the appliances it's only going to cost 20 grand, I know you don't want me going out looking like a hag do you I need beauty supplies let's see go to the beauty shop get my hair dyed $220 makeup I know my makeup is a month old I can get germs new makeup this month hundred fifty I need lotions any bubble bath I need perfumes and if we're going out somewhere I need jewelry, as a man I don't ever remember any woman in my entire life everbuying me a ton of jewelry beauty supplies clothing unless it was underwear socks and t-shirts for Christmas, there's so many things on on the list I I'm just at a lost of it all I think I'll just go gay at the mall when you can't find a man in your life you'll know why, again it is 2020 the year of equal if this doesn't sound equal to you it didn't to me
In summary most of the guys here complain about hypergamic hyperbole, which is a very real, tangible and tenuous issue in the modern world. All the while lot's of the women here are displaying the usual degrees of cognitive and emotional dissonance, in that they reject all individual and collective accountability for how utterly skewed in political favour modern society is, towards women.
But what women struggle to articulate is that they don't actually enjoy the emasculating effects modern society has on men's ability to validate the sexual identities of those very women who childishly placate and deny responsibility for flawed female behaviour...
In a nutshell, men need to stop bleating on about how unfair things are and strap on those lost cock and bollocks, and put women back in their rightful places. Only when women have actual men to respect do they begin to snap out of warped behaviour and submit.
I think most women who fancy themselves feminist generally care more about the idea, than the actual reality. They like the idea of being seen as equals, rather than what being equal actually looks like. Remember a conversation I had with my sister once where she said something I thought described how a lot of girls think about it.
"I want to be strong enough to save myself, but for a manly man to come to my rescue". Me: So if you're on a sinking ship like the Titanic and you're strong enough to save yourself... you want a guy to go in their and risk his life to save you, when you would have gotten out alright anyways. Her: *embarrassed laughing smile* Yes
I think most girls like that idea. Where they want to feel/be/be seen as that empowered girl who can do it all, but at the end of the day still have that hero guy for whatever reason chooses to save her when she can do it herself. Best of both worlds I guess. "I know you're strong baby. I know you can do it. But I WANT to do it. Let me do this for you".
There's some women out there who have these views, but there's always going to be different groups of people out there with strong views, no matter how wrong they are. But we can't assume they represent the whole female species, not every women thinks that way.
Yes of course!! I buy random gifts for my partner all the time, if I see something and think he will like it! And we always split the bill, or sometimes I pay, sometimes he pays, depending on who has enough money at the time 😊 I don't understand why I've got so many downvotes on this though 😂
Sadly, that's not entirely true (there are men who are the same way), but it's definitely true that there are a lot of women that way, especially in my generation (GenX). I actually think it's getting better with the current generation - plenty of kids have seen their mothers or other women have those double-standards and it's not hard to figure out that it isn't fair or right.
Most men don't need or even want their girl to spend money on HIM - we'd just be happy if she covered her own needs and extra expenses.
I can't tell you how many girls would blow their money on discretionary spending, and then couldn't pay rent, or couldn't make their car payment, or "just needed to borrow", etc. (and I'm not just talking about my own relationships - I see it happen to my friends constantly) - and by next payday, she's "forgotten" that she borrowed money or "she really needed these clothes on sale for work" or whatever. Guys grit their teeth and get past it, but men generally don't have other people who are going to bale them out, so we prioritize work and earning because we have nothing to fall back on.
Or, the girl will insist on, say, getting a dog. "I'll take complete care of it" is always the answer to any complaint - but 2 months later, and it's the guy who is scooping poop off the lawn, fixing the holes in the fence, taking it for a walk, paying for dog food and shots and pest control and on and on. And then, if you want to take her someplace for the weekend, you have to find someone to watch the dog - and if you can't, then you don't get to go - despite her insistence that "it isn't going to affect you."
Obviously every woman isn't like this, and obviously there are some guys just as bad, but women seem to get away with this kind of crap way WAY more often.
Of course, some do. But man do this as well. They all complain about how women don't approach first romantically, but when it happens, most of them deal terrible with it. Men do not know how to reject. And imagine what kind of chaos would happen if they were sexually/romantically approached by women on a daily basis?
Nah I don't think so. Men have stronger sexual urges and it's harder for them to restrain them. It would be a torture for them and most would give in most of the times.
If you say so. lol It's more likely the guy will find his open admirers sexually attractive. But recieving verbal validation particularly when you are already secure in a relationship is hardly torture compared to the opposite. I don't think women have proved themselves to be necessarily more faithful either. They're proven to be more socially savvy, and said to be far better at hiding affairs. That's why many men used to not know if their children were really theirs.
A lot of them, yeah. You can see this going back to women's suffrage. At the time the argument against suffrage was that it came with the draft. By being subject to the draft and things like bucket duty, this entitled men to vote. Most women either didn't want suffrage or didn't care, but the loud minority convinced the US gov to give it to all women unconditionally instead of just the ones that wanted it and while men still didn't have the vote by default, they had to sign up to these duties to get it.
I'm not arguing against women's suffrage in the present day, just pointing out the strain of thought.
So when it's put that way it's apparent that there's a subset of women that -- while they don't have an inclination toward outright world domination -- they still have a penchant for at least mild female supremacy. And of course there's always more to complain about so it starts mild and gets worse the more you capitulate.
The world will never be equal but that doesn't mean I percieve myself as beneath anybody. Women just want safety, security, and acceptance in every situation just like men want. How hard is it to understand that?
Thats why I said the world will never be equal. Complaining isn't going to solve it. This problem won't ever be fixed by complaining about the world, politicians can't solve it, its starts with you. If you want to actually do something about it then start accepting equal responsibility. And reciprocation starts with someone giving things to you and nobody gives me shit. I get evrrything on my own, I pay for myself, I take care of myself and I accept responsibility for my life. I couldnt give a shit about what the next woman doesn't have because we have to make the best out of the life that is given to us. Anyone who isn't capable of doing that will never be satisfied. But that doesn't change the fact that everyone wants to be secure, safe, and accepted. What was your point even?
This is a person to person thing. Every woman doesn't expect men to give them shit. Some women dont even want to be in relationships or care about romance. Romance is really the only aspect of society where men have the short end of the stick. But not every woman cares about romance or relationships. I really just feel like people find shit to complain about just because they dont like what society offers but society is made up of individual people. If anybody doesn't like whats being offered then just stay single or be with a girl who doesn't expect anything its that single
@Kibler I think what @Europeanchick refers to is hypergamy in women. Whereas, men are much more accepting of a wider range of women out there relative to themselves. This is generally speaking. A quick example is to look at the differences in activity with men's dating accounts vs that of women's dating accounts. It would seem like physical/emotional safety, security, and acceptance should be more reciprocal than it is between men and women in a supposed sexually revolutionized world.
But it's simply not even true that the only aspect of society where men have the short end of the stick is romance. Women are more accepted in general. Jobs in tech, careers in general, studies have shown that people tend to respond more positively to the female voice. They generally have more friends including close friends. Suicide is a serious issue that I've heard people terribly mistake as a teenage girl issue. Perhaps little do they know that men at minimum quadruple women in this unfortunate problem. Women are almost dominating college and education, making up most graduates for whatever reason that may be. But the list just goes on and on. I recommend watching the documentary, The Red Pill by former prominent feminist Cassie Jaye. There are clips and exclusive content from the doc free on Youtube, but the whole doc can be bought/rented on services such as Youtube and Amazon, etc.
They don't want equal rights, they want all the rights and yes that means pushing all the responsibilities off onto men. Its been that way for quite some time (I mean how can you complain about a lack of equality from women when they legally have more rights then men are statistically better off in every single situation bar none, and have more programs to benefit and help them then men do? Clearly your not about equality but privilege at that point.).
I think you're highly confused and might not have a positive female influence in your life. I dont think you understand the difference between equal rights and a man taking the lead in the home as a man. Those are two different things
@FakeName123 men are paid more than women. Even when it comes to sports as it has been discussed womens professional soccer league has recently complained about but what you said does come into play aswell. Along with men being paid more than women overall.
@FakeName123 yes women have voting rights but our rights taken into account? why should a man be able to vote on issues concerning a womans body? hmm no for me
Let's say that the women who are in charge and support those high-name feminists are thinking that way. And they are the ones who create political pressure on policies.
Add to it a drastic increase in narcissim among women and you get quite the dangerous mix.
They've always wanted it that way. Why do you think women dont have to sign up for the draft to vote, yet men do, in the US? Many women want a guy to be old school and chivalrous, yet refuse to do the same thing women did in that time period.
Yes, I do and what misinterpretation. I named a right women got that didn't come with the same punishment men have, then I slightly altered it. To further show how women expect and wants lots yet dont actually want to do anything or get any of the consequences.
Women want equal opportunities, how they step up and treat that opportunity varies from person to person as it does with men. Still if they don’t get an equal opportunity then something’s wrong.
No, the "equal responsibilities" the way most "feminists" and guys who don't want to pay for dates are pushing are actually not equal at all and tripples the load on women by making it easier and easier for men.
@morimeme1 "who don't want to pay for dates are pushing are actually not equal at all and tripples the load on women by making it easier and easier for men." Your words, and im not even taking account of gender. So explain me how making you to pay for your own stuff is wrong. Hell ye its harder, quiz you need to earn means to do pay for your own stuff. Ps. how making girl pay for date is 3 times harder than making man pay for date? Im bad with math, but not that bad.
I am so tired of explaining this to men who will still never back off. But since you insist: if we are talking about equality let's look at how much time and money men spend on preparations for the date in comparison to women: you take a shower and maybe get a haircut (which is really cheaper than that of a woman's anyway), while women: doing their hair, makeup, nails, waxing and what not. Every party puts in their share just in different ways. Just as generally as gender roles fade away men mostly don't have mandatory military service, they are not expected to be the sole providers for the household or spend as much time with kids while women are still the primary caretakers, house cleaners, food makers apart from having to make money and look perfect or they will say that she has let herself go. I know that here you will say something along the lines: she doesn't have to wear makeup and all that. But let's be real, you will not go for that woman who does not take care of herself and most men when they say that they want a woman without makeup have no idea what that actually means.
@morimeme1 I also put effort in my appearance. :) If it was acceptable for men to wear make up etc men would be doing it too. They reason men starting putting in less effort was because women stopped putting in effort.
Yes women put in effort (depending on the girl) for a date. But do they put same effort in everyday life. You are absolutely correct in what kind of girls guys go for. Hence my point as soon as women stopped putting in effort men started putting less effort in return.
I have no problem paying for few dates, and I always asked a girl out. I would only however date a girl who generally puts effort in her appearance and not just for a date.
@morimeme1 your wrong about military service, men are still required to sign up for draft. And when shit hits fan, they will be first to go. So you want to get free stuff just because you dressed up? Man haircut at good place isn't cheap, to do hair and beard it cost more than woman haircut. Talking about normal day to day ones here. Trust me i get what you are saying, but man paying for dates was normal when woman was staying at home and not really working, now your working, earning your own stuff and somehow asking for free stuff to. Your rising up, often driving man down quiz 50/50 gender equality at work places, get special woman only scholarships (man dont have them), and yet you still want to get free stuff. Dont get me wrong I pay for dates, but i also expect woman to at least make sugestion to split. I will ignore it, but still now that you have all that nice power, be ready for its responsibilities. Wanna be equal, than be equal. Want privileges, than dont ask for equality. Ps. male grooming stuff aren't cheap. I trully hope you get where im comming from, quiz i perfectly understand your points and some of them are valid. But demanding even asking for free stuff isn't way to go.
I am happy that you get my points and I see that I came off a bit wrong, I don't support women who simply feel entitled to get free stuff and 100% expext the man to pay or only have high standards when it comes to others and not themselves, I personally don't go on dates if I am not ready to pay for my half even though it does give the guy extra points if he offers to pay because that shows generosity (something we all look for in a partner) and I know some men do put in a lot of effort too sadly not that many though.
Yet I feel like the point of the question is aimed more for those inadequate points that people here tend to make that if women truly want equality then "they should have mandatory military draft", "do the dangerous jobs" and all these which really do not make any sense because the female biology is just different and not suited for fhese things and it's not like men can't choose what type of job they want to do and that there are 0 women who actually do those too, about military - it makes no sense to put women on the front lines, maybe in other positions yes.
I believe that women do want you to rights, but the judicial system and Society right behind gives women the opportunity to absolve themselves of any real responsibility. For example, I know it is a Hot Topic right now but if women were to take the issue of pregnancy and abortion with a real grain of salt they would not be having unprotected sex. But because abortion is such an easy option, it gives them a reason to not take responsibility for their actions.
Women have never wanted equal responsibilities. Women have never wanted ANY responsibilities. "These days" is just trying to sugar coat the women's rights movements of old, but even those were dog shit. There were a few rare gems like Susan B Anthony who insisted on equal responsibility, but she was the exception. Not the rule.
Spiderman's uncle said "with great power comes great responsibility". Women want to have all the power but refuse to accept any responsibility. Women will never choose to work in farming, mining or construction. They want to sit in an office and be bossy to men while complaining about sexist air conditioning.
Most women I know want equal rights and see that they have to accept responsibility for those rights just as men have to. Seems like that is only where I live which can't possibly be true but whenever I talk to someone from anywhere else they complain about equal rights but don't want any responsibilities that come with it.
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