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Chivalry vs. Feminism: Can they co-exist? (Page 3)
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I believe so. However, some woman already expect a certain behavior from man. I am a feminist and I believe things should have a balance. I personally like to open doors for man or pay for some things just because I want to not because is a duty. I don't expect a guy to do all those things for me just because I'm a woman. I think chivalry shouldn't be an obligation but an option.
well its is an obligation when most men are still paying for first date.
"dates"
Well in all honestly I believe that "equality" doesn't exist. Equality is an idea of the perfect society/universally different in everyone's opinion. It's very unrealistic to actually believe that change will happen towards the way some people view women. It's not just mean that are the problem, it;s women too. Not every woman believes in feminism (most of the time that's because of religious purposes). I'm not saying I'm against feminism (because I believe everyone has a belief/opinion) but that it's very unrealistic for the world to actually believe in "equality". Now I do believe that chivalry can co-exist with feminism but to an extent. Thanks to opinions, everyone is going to be different. For example, some women might be offend at a man holding a door open for her while others might not. So yeah I feel chivalry can co-exist with feminism but to an extent. I hope I'm not offending anyone but I probably am...
Nice take. I believe in equality for both genders and would open the door for any women or man. Those knightly qualities I would do even for another man.
Yes and I think chivalry should apply to both genders.
On this take however I wanted to point out both can coexist peacefully.
I was taught to open the door for ANYONE behind you regardless of gender. That's called manners. I don't mind someone opening the door for me. What really irks me is when they let it shut in the face of the GUY behind me, rude.
I think they are both outdated to a large extent. Women were never really oppressed to begin with, and now they have the right to work, and vote. There really is no right or opportunity barred from them except certain military jobs, and that is disappearing. Chivalry is definitely dead, it's been dead, we are not in the medieval times.
Wow, your ignorance is astounding.
@bang678 In what way? I mean holding doors open and being nice is just common courtesy, I don't consider it chivalry. In terms of Feminism many of their earlier objectives have been met, such as no fault divorce, the right to work, access to contraceptives, etc. Aside from saying they weren't really oppressed, I mean not really. The farther back in history you go, the worse life was for everyone. That was just the times. Explain to me what you consider unfair in today's times. Unless you mean the chivalry part?
No, i don't mean chivalry.
Access to contraception? Uh no, look at hobby lobby. there's complete lack of church and state.
Who is making laws about women's bodies? Pasty old men
And lets not ignore the glass ceiling.
*lack of separation of church and state
@bang678 Well there can only be so many at the top, that just boils down to odds. Contraception, yes that's widely available everywhere. Last time I checked condoms, and birth control are everywhere. No oppression there. The only issue that is being debated is abortion, which I do understand both sides of it. It's an unborn, innocent life that's in question. Really depends on whether you view an embryo as a human or not, and churches don't really have that much power. They can influence their congregations and yeah there is funding for pacs, but no special advantages there. They lobby like any other interest group in any other country does. Glass ceiling? Yeah everyone smashes against it, welcome to real world. Very few people make it to the top of pyramid. Those at the top, want to stay at the top. That's just called self interest.
Are you serious? For example, male nurses earn over $1000 more a year than female.
Also with contraception like birth control it can get very expensive. Many women take birth control for other health reasons besides contraception. In the case of hobby lobby the business prevented their workers from being medically covered for birth control which was completely unfair.
@bang678
"Access to contraception? Uh no, look at hobby lobby. there's complete lack of church and state."
Lol access to contraception? You have access to contraception either way. What are you talking about? Hobby Lobby didn't want to be involved in funding it. Not only that but i'm pretty sure that had to deal with abortion not birth control.
"Who is making laws about women's bodies? Pasty old men"
Brah they are not the only ones making the laws. They vote for their districts that put them in office. Also, your body's cease to be only yours when you have another human growing inside of you.
"And lets not ignore the glass ceiling."
I'd need elaboration.
"Wow, your ignorance is astounding."
The only ignorance that's astounding is yours lol separation of church and state is not to remove religious influence from government it's to remove religious CONTROL over the state to prevent a theocracy. Also that isn't even a law lol that was just a letter Jefferson sent or something.
@bang678
"Are you serious? For example, male nurses earn over $1000 more a year than female."
Things like this are not always true. Sometimes pro-feminist organizations skew the numbers to make their point. For the most part the wage-gap is due to things like the amount of hours people work and the amount of experience and what not. The only thing you could probably really argue MIGHT be hiring bias. But most of the other stuff is moot, typically. However if you'd like to find links on that sort of material from a reliable source I'd be glad to check it out.
The wage gap is a fact. Not a hoax or myth. a fact.
@bang678 my friends wife is an RN, she makes a very nice annual salary, and it has nothing to do with gender. People just want to be victims, and play the victim card all the time. Women are not oppressed, there is nothing a girl can not do that a boy can. Girls can play sports, go to college, join the military and can be most military occupations. I can't think of a single limitation that women have in western countries in today's times. Globally yes, here no. People are just spoiled and have a sense of entitlement. Grow up, people face real problems in the world. Women and men have it made here.
Stupid people nowadays... Consider this as a defining feminism;
"Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment."
This has nothing to do with chivalry or romantic relationship pertaining a man's behavior towards women.
My guess is no. Only because Chivalry is focused on masculinity... and feminism doesn't seem overly fond of the distinction between males and females.
I urge people who disagree to post because I'd like to figure this out.
Me and my boyfriend are both feminists and we treat each other, open doors and do other things for each other all the time to show that we care. I don't believe that chivalry are only for men :)
chivalry is*
I just wish people could be more chill. It makes me nervous, like, either I'm apparently not being feminist enough, or else I'm not being chivalrous enough. What happened to just hanging out and giving each other a few passes?
Hehe I can see that. I feel like though that's more an issue with high maintenance females.
With me as long as a guy isn't trying to grab my ass or isn't saying anything sexist from the start I am good. Well as long as he isn't actually sexist I don't have many things that would be a deal breaker.
I am also fairly low-maintence.
Feminism served it's purpose 100 years ago when women didn't have the right to vote, etc, but now it's just being used as another political buzzword to try and trick uninformed voters.
I agree and disagree.
The main focus of feminism was served in the past however in certain areas women are not equal.
ex. them being treated as objects or being objectified, are more often victims of crime like rape.
I have to strongly disagree. I am tired of women whining about being "objectified". When women say this all they are doing is slut shaming men, but rewording it so that women sound like the victims.
It's funny how people need to keep defining what feminism is. You want ME to open the door for YOU.. how is that not special treatment... how about YOU open the door for ME all the time and I will thank you. Oh and buy me gifts too and I'll make sure to say thanks for those too :)
Gezz ok, don't have to be so greedy.
Can't handle me then too bad :)
Chivalry is about men's behaviour towards women. Feminists claim that feminism is for gender equality. That they can co-exist in an equal society makes no sense. How about showing good manners to everybody?
Feminization of Men: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1363105-the-feminization-of-men
I don't get it, a lot of guys complain about feminist & equality, but what does equality in the workplace have to do with dating?
www.psychologytoday.com/.../why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates
Science to the rescue
@crayven, That article just furthers my questioning of why does equality in the workplace affect dating? From one of the comments: "Modern American women want equality from 9-5 and traditional gender roles from 5-9" - Why even associate the two? Work vs personal life. So, she has to be a boss at work, wear the pants in the relationship & birth/nurture the children? So what is the male's role?
This is why the marriage rate is down, there are too many people who can't get a date right. Guys who wait for me to initiate & guys who say I intimidated them at first, are huge turn offs. It makes me wonder, what other areas in their lives are they slacking off/rebelling in if approaching women is so hard. I do not see confidence, they're more dependent & need more guidance/help and aren't ready to be someone's partner, but rather someone's child. Some men can say the same about dependent women, & maybe that's what they like or not, but to me it's just not an attractive trait.
Haha your sexist. Expecting you men to take the lead is another gender role in which you have reinforced.
Hahaha! @damionrain100, Learn how to formulate a proper sentence before trying to insult someone ;-)
yes it can and it exists. find the right guy, leave the rest of the sexist guys behind.
no special treatment, just respect and love to another human being.
Admit you lost.
Yawn. Its "I want equality but i want special treatment." Yet again. Why don't women hold the door for their boyfriends? Why dont women jump in and protect their boyfriends when they say leave me alone to some stranger? Smh. can't women be chivalrous? Its sexist to say they shouldn't be equal. Does not compute
I'll gladly open the door for girls (or rather, anyone) I don't want to see again. Although sometimes I pretend to open the door for people only to go in myself so I could witness their confusion.
These two things are like PLAYSTATION and Xbox. As long as one of them exist the other will exist also. None of them will progress or deprogress as long as they both exist and share the same world
Women want it both ways. They want to be weak and submissive on the night out and have you pick up their bill for them, and they also want to not be treated that way when it's convenient for them. Can't have it both ways.
The issue is more when women expect for a guy to treat her like that. People shouldn't have any expectations of others, other then basic human respect.
Once you start expecting more then that from someone you barely know, that is when you become a spoiled brat.
Before complaining about men paying for dates you should look in the history of women being allowed (or rather not allowed) to even have bank accounts.
Its just a tradition that has followed through because of that.
Well the women don't seem to complain. Get over it. You want it both ways.
Chivalry of today isn't the same as historical chivalry, I believe being kind to others and doing treating people with respect is something that everyone should do for everyone else.