Should women who lie about who the father of their baby is be jailed?

[Stephen10]

In our wonderful society of equality and justice where women must be respected and fathers must be punished for not paying for their child, why on earth is there no punishment for women who lie about who the father of their baby is?

Some years ago I was listening to a radio show that talked about this issue. There were some men who were told after 15-20 years that they were not really the biological father. At the very least he should get a refund for all the child support that he paid. How the hell can society tolerate such evil and injustice? If fathers can be jailed for not paying child support, why can't mothers be jailed for lying about who the father of her baby is?

I just don't understand how women can tell such an horrendous lie. How can a woman allow a man to believe he's the father of her child, knowing he isn't, while at the same time sleep with him in the same bed every night and tell him that she loves him. How is it possible to live with such a huge, evil lie? Refusing to jail women who do these things is the height of injustice.

Updates

+1 y

The only thing you have proved is that you are a complete and utter moron, a feminazi, and a man hater. The amount of diarrhea that you have displayed on this forum is pitiful. Good bye and good riddance.

[GingerBear]

No, they shouldn't be. Let's look at two scenarios. In the first, the man is told he is the father, but isn't in a relationship with the woman, and pays child support. He then finds out he is not the father. The child support should be paid back, plus compensation for emotional distress.
In the second scenario, a woman (for whatever reason) falls pregnant to another, outside of her current relationship. She tells her partner he is the father (she may know this is a lie, she may not, that's near impossible to prove). He accepts and loves the baby, raises it as his own. He then finds out the child is not his. Is he going to suddenly hate the child that he raised? Unlikely. Should he leave the woman? Maybe. She did something stupid, sure. But not criminal.

And I don't know where you live, but here, men don't get jailed for not paying child support. In fact, there is little to no retribution for not paying. If they default long enough, or claim bankruptcy (happens very often), any child support debts usually get wiped.

[Stephen10]

You say that the women "did something stupid." No, she did something evil and abhorrent. I don't understand women's mentality, how they can think it's not a big deal. She allows a man to believe he is the biological father and then tells him 20 years later that he's not really the father. How insane are you? And actually there are many cases where men have been imprisoned for not paying child support, even if they're unemployed.

[GingerBear]

I don't think it's ok, but it's hardly evil. It is a big deal, and I could completely understand the man taking her to civil court over it, he would be totally justified in wanting any child support back, and compensation.
But it's not criminal. She can be punished without being imprisoned. That sentence is way out of balance with the wrong committed.

[Stephen10]

It's very evil indeed. How you can think it's not evil just shows how evil society has become.

[GingerBear]

It is not evil. You're being irrational and foolish. It is wrong, yes. And yes, she should be punished. But it is not a jailable offence, and you have given NO reasons why it should be made one.
Once again, it is a civil matter, and should be punished as such. The woman should have to pay reparations to the man, absolutely. But there is no sensible reason to imprison her over it.

[Stephen10]

Yes it is very evil, and only a moron would think that it's not.

[GingerBear]

If you're not going to offer any actual arguments for that, you probably shouldn't be insulting other people's intelligence, when yours is that if a child.

[Stephen10]

If you haven't got the intelligence or the morals to understand just how evil it is then nothing I say is going to convince you. Typical western woman.

[GingerBear]

No, you're using that to cover your total lack of logical reasoning. It's bad, but not on par with genocide, or serial murder, or other things that truly are evil.
I'm not going to call you a typical male, because I'm not sexist, and the entire gender doesn't deserve to be lumped in with someone as ridiculous and stupid as you. At least, with your attitude, you'll never contribute to the gene pool.

[Stephen10]

Well I guess it depends on what one regards as evil. What is evil to someone might not be evil to another. To me, it is evil, but to you it isn't. I guess you just don't have much of a conscience.

[GingerBear]

Oh for fucks sake... Lying about the identity of a child's father is wrong, but is not, and should not be, a jailable offense. Deal with it, and move on, or explain why it should be.

[Stephen10]

Well, this kind of thing has driven some men to suicide. Believing you are the father, only to be told 10-20 years later that you're not, can cause lots of trauma. And the woman just gets away with it. If you can't see how evil that is then you are deranged.

[GingerBear]

You're an idiot. Bullying in schools drives people to suicide. Divorce drives people to suicide. Losing a job drives people to suicide. Should we be jailing every person who bullies, divorces, or fires someone? Of course not, that would be stupid. Charge someone with a crime, and give a punishment that fits that crime.

[Stephen10]

Yer but you forget that it's also fraud. Many men would not pay thousands of pounds in child support if they knew the baby wasn't theirs. So lying about something like that is fraud, yet there's no punishment for these women. What freaking planet are you from?

[GingerBear]

There is punishment for these women, idiot. They can get sued for millions, and they DO get sued for millions.
Fraud, in cases like this, go to CIVIL COURT. They get sued for compensation, they do not get jailed.

[GingerBear]

Fucking hell, you really are stupid. Look this shit up, and maybe you'll stop spouting bullshit.
There have been successful cases where men have won lawsuits over paternity fraud, and been awarded money, in many countries, including Australia, the US, France, and the UK. If you were smart enough to do a simple google search, you'd know this. It took me a few minutes to find it, so it shouldn't take you more than an hour or two.

[GingerBear]

I know you have mental deficiencies, but you can read, right?
Here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2598159/
There have been successful claims of compensation for paternity fraud. The reason is is often not punished is because it is so hard to prove that the woman intentionally lied about the identity of the child's father. It's also difficult because the child will suffer, and most courts place the child's wellbeing over all else.

You have not come up with a single shred of proof or logic that supports your stance. You keep claiming it is 'evil', and bad enough for women to be taken from their children and jailed, but you can't say why it's any worse than other civil crimes.

[GingerBear]

Hahaha that's priceless. So you admit I'm right, but because I think things like genocide, serial murder, and crimes that cause mass suffering are 'evil', and not something as relatively trivial as fraud, that makes me a moron? Hon, you need to see a therapist.

[GingerBear]

It is fraud. It is not abuse, since there is no repeatedly cruel or violent treatment, emotionally or physically. It is not fair, no, and that is why it can be taken to civil court, as I have repeatedly stated.
You may believe it is evil, that is your opinion. I do not, nor would any rational person. It is not, nor should it be, a jailable offense.
You cannot legally be responsible for someone else's suicide. Claiming that the woman is to blame for the man's suicide, because she lied about him fathering her child, is like blaming a man for a woman's suicide, because he broke up with/divorced her. It's illogical, stupid, and has no legal basis.
The only time anyone can be convicted over someone else's suicide, is when they are in a position of responsibility for the deceased. For example, parents, school officials/teachers, and medical professionals.

[GingerBear]

I repeat, you cannot LEGALLY be responsible for someone else's suicide. Someone may be driven to suicide by certain events, but that does not make it anyone else's fault.
You don't seem to be able to separate law from your personal feelings. Like I said, you really ought to see a therapist, and then maybe try to get some remedial education.

[Stephen10]

And the fact that you cannot see how evil it is shows that you're the one that needs to see a therapist.

[GingerBear]

And I'll say it again... just because something is wrong, does not make it evil. Unless she's done it with malicious intent, it's not even close to being evil.
You really like to insult people without any basis, don't you? At least I've proven that I can rationally explain my stance. All you do is talk nonsense, get shot down, then make up more nonsense.

[GingerBear]

Hardly. My guess though, is that you're one of those pathetic as fuck guys that hate women, because no one would ever touch you in your special place.

I'm done here. I proved you wrong, all that remains is for you to eventually come to the realisation that you are, in fact, a complete idiot.
Please, for the sake of the human race, never reproduce.

[Woody100]

Women like you should be jailed

[Marinepilot]

You're right as rain about this. Clearly something must be done the only viable
solution to require DNA testing all newborns. Before the man is name on the birth
certificate. That is the only way to eliminate and prevent it. This is a horrible things
to do. Sadly, the kids are the ultimate losers in this. Most men would continue to be
in the kid's life. I wouldn't and that maybe wrong, but who could blame anyone or not doing it

[GirlScout]

So you think the child should suffer for the mistakes of it's parent, be left in care and probably grow up to be a badly adjusted individual, possibly burdening society by being dysfunctional and creating the same issues it was dealt?

Jail... are you serious? Pay back the money? No. You think making a single mother pay back years and years of cash is actually feasible? It's a very poorly thought out response to a problem.

To be honest, paternity testing should be mandatory for estranged couples who are sorting out child support. Just mandatory, no arguing. I fully agree that paying for a child that isn't yours is disgusting, as is abandoning a child and never paying a penny towards it which happens a fuck of a lot, lets not pretend men as a whole are the only victims in this set up. Plenty of men just fuck off never to be seen or heard from again.

[Woody100]

Yer but dead beat dads often get punished, whereas mothers who tell such evil lies get away with it. So yes, these would be jailed or shipped to Saudi Arabia.

[GirlScout]

@Woody100 what are you doing with these kids then? You're creating single parent families. This "solution" is so lacking in foresight. It will create more problems, while not really solving the one at hand. It's stupid is what it is, but this punished dads thing. ... nope, thousands of men walk away and never pay a penny, never get tracked down. Never earn enough to actually support the child, don't make out all fathers are doting, devoted parents.

[Woody100]

If you read a book called "Who Killed the American Family" which was actually written by a woman, you would know that many good fathers get pushed out of their children's lives, either by bitter ex girlfriends or by corrupt family court judges, which is why many of these fathers commit suicide. The media always talks about dead beat dads, but never about bad mothers. And besides, many mothers turn to big brother government for financial support so the father isn't needed anyway. My solution would be to make the mother pay back the child support, or be banned from ever having children again.

[GirlScout]

@Woody100 look, can you stop making out all fathers are the victims? It's lies! Yes, lots of men are pushed out and it is terrible, it's heartbreaking that they are forced to separate from their children, I genuinely think its unfair when caring fathers are pushed away and out but there are literally thousands of men who walk, no run away. Don't deny it.

[Woody100]

I never once said that dead beat dads don't exist so I have no idea why you would imply such a thing.

[SomeKindOfPerson]

Why do you think paternity testing isn't mandatory? I mean, you'd think it would be an obvious response to these kinds of problems. It's really weird when you think about it.

[GirlScout]

@SomeKindOfPerson I don't know why, if it was mandatory at birth then there wouldn't be the whole issue of being offended by your spouse asking. I've stated many times that if a guy questioned the paternity of our child I would do the test, but he wouldn't be my partner anymore. I wouldn't be with a man who questioned my fidelity when we have a kid together.

@Woody100 well why are you bringing up all this other business when we are talking about dead beat dads? I'm not talking about wrong-done-by fathers, why did you bring them into it?

[Woody100]

Because you were the one who brought up dead beat dads, duh.

[GirlScout]

@Woody100 no, I meant why are you talking about the non-deadbeats? They had nothing to do with this and you started going on about how unfair it all is when we were talking about fathers who fuck off.

[Woody100]

Because you were the one who brought up dead beat dads first.

[GirlScout]

@Woody100 yes I was, why are we going around in circles here?

I brought up dead beat dads and you start talking about ones who aren't, well... I don't care about them, they don't have anything to do with what I was talking about. They do not have a place in this conversation.

[Woody100]

Bloody hell. Okay, so what is the point you are trying to make?

[GirlScout]

@Wood100 that many, many dads just walk away with no jail time.

[Marinepilot]

I'd leave her and the kid. Sadly , the kid is the ultimate loser. But no one
can blame a for walking away from this. I know the kid is losing a father
figure, but I'll be damned if Ill support a kid who isn't mine. Some have to win
and some have to lose, Good time Charlie sings the blues. To me, this is the
most unforgivable thing a woman can ever think of doing to a man. Many women
do get battered because of this. No way I'd ever convict a man for doing that in these
circumstances.

[GirlScout]

@Marinepilot sorry, I don't condone violence against people, especially when it isn't necessary at all. I'm not saying it's ever a right thing to do, it's wrong, but that does not justify physically beating someone. Please don't comment on my post again. I'd prefer not to interact with someone who has such a mentality.

[Marinepilot]

I'd never do this, many men would. no right way. Go ahead and try to keep me from posting. I simply stated the truth and you can't handle it.

[GirlScout]

@Marinepilot I could have blocked you but I was hoping you'd respect my wish. It isn't a truth, it's your opinion on a violent act.

[Marinepilot]

It's the way most guys see it.

[GirlScout]

@Marinepilot doesn't make it right.

[throwit]

Lying and cheating to and on your spouse is hardly something that should result in imprisonment.
But if he thinks the kid is his (hell, if SHE thinks the kid is his) then I don't think anything can really be done. You've raised this baby loving it thinking it was your own, happy to spend money on what it needs, you can't just take that back and say you want your money back lol the guy should have the option of walking away at that point with no obligation to pay further child support, but if his name is on the birth certificate then the kid is legally his and he probably WOULD continue paying child support if he broke up with the mother.

[Stephen10]

Yer but a lot of men would not have invested so much money in the child if they knew it wasn't theirs, so at the very least the woman should get done for fraud.

[throwit]

And what if she also didn't know? There's no way to prove she had any idea. And I'm sure if you raised your kid and loved them their entire life you wouldn't suddenly feel nothing towards them. Your name is on the birth certificate which means they are legally yours. It's as if you adopted them when the real father wasn't in the picture. You are their dad.

[Marinepilot]

A lo tof m encould walk away and not feel anything Some us are that cold. I am.

[throwit]

@Marinepilot well I have no idea how the legal system for that works. I'm sure there's some way to stop paying since it's not your child.
But on the other hand I don't think it's unfair if you still have to pay since you are he legal father and you can't simply (legally) walk away from your child

[Marinepilot]

It's a nasty, lose-lose situation. They would have to jail me. No way
I'm paying for a kid who isn't my DNA. Especially since paternity fraud.
If this happened to me, I'd leave, divorce her and I'd never have anything
to do with the child ever again. Why be continually reminded that you got
played for a sucker? I wouldn't do it. The courts usually make the non bio dad
pay because it's "In the best interest of the kid". How could it be when the non bio
dad will most likely, if he has a brain never have anything to do with the kid who isn't his?
I think that mandatory DNA tests for births should be done. Of course the feminists will
scream like mashed cats over this. But fair is fair and right is right. And this is far more common that I ever imagined.

[throwit]

What does that have to do with feminists? I do think most women would feel untrustworthy if their husband didn't trust her not to be sleeping around. Making it mandatory would just be one more unneeded thing that taxpayers are forced to fund @Marinepilot

[Marinepilot]

That's true. But when 30% of births are a result of paternity fraud, then something must be done.

[throwit]

You got a source on that statistic? @Marinepilot

[Stephen10]

Whether or not he has statistics, which don't prove anything anyway, I myself have seen lots of paternity fraud.

[throwit]

And I've seen countless girls have a baby with someone who promised to be with them, but then the father decided to just walk away and leave the baby with the mother.

[Stephen10]

What's that got to do with paternity fraud?

[Vesuvius87]

There will always be rotten people on earth. I think the man should get all his money back; he is now free to choose whether he still wants to recognize the child as his or bail out which is understandable.

As in jail time, if the child is a minor wouldn't it be worse for the kid... he/she already doesn't have a father and if the mother goes to jail that would lead him to be place in foster homes, which he/she can get abused or neglected.

[Vesuvius87]

By throwing the mother in jail, the child would be even more damaged.

[Marinepilot]

The man should bail out. I would and never give it a second thought.

[bostonceltics10391]

It's paternity fraud. It's a criminal offense, but I don't think women who do this are punished enough.

Long jail time sentences. Hefty fees. Restraining orders. Leave that poor man the FUCK alone. You robbed a hardworking man of his money and his life. And you've ruined a child's life. Basically you've destroyed two people because you couldn't keep your legs closed and were too cowardly to own up to your crime.

This is why I am on the edge about getting married. Infidelity, slander, and fraud against married men are just far too many for marriage to be worth a damn. I have my own nice apartment and a good amount of money only for me.

[SomeKindOfPerson]

First of all, in those cases, the women themselves probably don't know. They just sleep with more than one person and don't use protection (or protection fails). Then they simply say that the father is X for whatever reason.

What really seems strange is that there is no legally required paternity test. If this isn't required, you can never prove fraud actually took place (since the woman can always claim she had no idea), and if it is, fraud does not take place.

[SomeKindOfPerson]

However, if it can be proven the woman lied, it does seem to be a case of fraud, both against the supposed father and against the government.

[Stephen10]

But if the man finds out that he's not the father after many years, then the courts could question the woman and ask her why his name is on the birth certificate if she knew there was a chance he wasn't the father.

[SomeKindOfPerson]

Paternity tests aren't required, so no one really knows who the real father is. If she claims that she was certain he was the father, it seems to be difficult to prove she acted maliciously.

However, this is just my impression and some common sense. I'm not a lawyer. If you want a real answer, ask on Quora.

[ElissaDido]

Yes, absolutely. This is not a white lie. The man would not only be emotionally lied to, he would also be financially robbed and cheated...

[JuicyBrain]

Who cares about the parents? What's important is the child. As long as the child is kept safe and taken care of by he mother and a father figure, I don't care. Give her a fine or something. But if you make the mother go to jail and the "father" won't take care of the child, how is this not stupid and irresponsible?
Is it completely fair? No. It is part of the things that sets us apart from women. Hey, we don't have to deal with periods and we don't have to deal with the pain of child birth, so, we each have advantages and disadvantages.

The child support is for the well being of the child, not for hers. THAT is what should be sought.

[MargaritaPeach]

I am not sure jail would be much of a deterrent for someone so rotten. But I think permanent sterilization sounds like a fair punishment. A judge should order her to cut, burn, and tie her tubes to minimize the risk of her re-offending. People like her don't need to be out there preying on men, and they certainly don't need to be reproducing or raising children.

[Marinepilot]

I totally agree. That's the worst possible betrayal and many woman get battered because of this. This very thing happened to a friend of mine.
He had a nasty temper to begin with and he lost it ! He beat the shit of
of his soon to be ex, hunted the bio father down and put a serious ass
whipping on him. Sadly many courts force the non bio father to pay child support for a kid who isn't theirs. This happens a lot. I'm told almost 30 % of births are in this category. While I don't think it's ever right for a man to hit a woman, I'd have a hard time convicting a man of domestic abuse if this happened to him. What I believe needs to happen is that DNA tests need to be done on EVERY birth, if the man isn't the bio dad then he's isn't required to pay child support. That would put a stop to this bullshit. Many men will continue to be a part of the kid's life. I couldn't do that.

[ChocEyes]

No, civil reparation would be more effective. Jails are already full. They should be reserved only for the worst crimes.

Incarcerated population is only increasing and this is not solving the world's problems or making society more safe. People often enter prision as petty criminals and get out as members of organized crime.

[RJGraveyTrain]

I think rather than invoking harsh punishments (our jails are full enough as it is, on tax payer's dimes) we should make it mandatory to have a paternity test before the courts issue that a man has to pay child support. First prove he's the biological father, and then by all means, make your judgment, but not before then.

[matheus_mb]

Yes! This is the voice of reason!

[RJGraveyTrain]

Thank you @matheus_mb.

[Marinepilot]

You're right. Well stated.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Thank you @Marinepilot.

[fauchelevent]

Hmm... No, because then the child would lose two parental figures rather than just the one. Obviously there should be some form of punishment but I don't think jail would be appropriate.

[DessieDoo]

No, she shouldn't be jailed. Just as I don't think a man should be jailed for not paying child support. However, she should be made to pay back that child support. No doubt about that!

[tattooedhandfet]

He can press charges. I'm sure this would be deemed a civil suit.

[longjohndan]

It's actually not. The state sees it as preferential that any father be named over none as it frees the state from possible liability for support. It's really an absurd standard.

[tattooedhandfet]

That's total insanity and not taking the men into accord. Realty pisses me off

[Stephen10]

not sure about that

[tattooedhandfet]

Well fuck it. If I was a guy in this predicament I would want to know my rights as a human being!

[Anonymous]

This is just one of the many, many injustices against men that happen all the time and get no attention because the victims are men, not women. Like anything else, if women were the victims, the entire world would be up in arms and demanding it be addressed.

Women's problems are society's problems but men's problems are men's problems.

[Stephen10]

Yer, I think that sums it up nicely. You're spot on.

[Anonymous]

There are some explanations for the law on this subject, but I doubt that you really want to hear them.

[LittleAnnabelle]

Yes!!! That is the most stupid thing a woman can do! It is completely immoral and unfair to the father, the fake father, and especially the child. A woman shouldn't be able to fuck up peoples lives over a dumb lie and get away with it.

[Lolomon]

Cool thing in 2015, is a DNA test solves everything, if you are a man and have doubts the child is yours and don't get a DNA test than you are dumb. DNA doesn't lie.

[FakeName123]

Except that the US law makes you the "right father" after you accepted you are the father for 6 months without complain. So you get punished for being trustful.

In other "modern" western societies making DNA tests for your potential child is actually deemed illegal (Germany for example).

You are right though. A DNA test would be a simple way of solving it, but there are unfortunately tons of unnecessary legal issues and burdens upon a man which makes it much more difficult than it should be.

[Lolomon]

Well cvs sells dna tests. You don't have to go through a court right away, but in Germany you also don't have to pay child support or markets it was so when I was there

[admles]

But you have to have the mother's consent to perform a DNA test I believe.

[Lolomon]

@admles nope. You don't. it's specifically made for men who question wether they are the father or nor.

[admles]

That's a brilliant idea.

I do know that in some countries though, they won't do it without the consent of both parents.

IMHO it should be mandatory at birth.

[itsallover]

A guy should be given the choice to have a paternity test taken before he agrees to put forward any money to support the child. I don't think jail is the answer.

[nalaa]

I understand those men are mad. But what good would come out of that. Taking a child mother and throwing her prison?

[FakeName123]

So because a woman is a mother she should be treated favourable to the point that she doesn't get punished for massive fraud?

[nalaa]

@FakeName123 No but lying about who the father is (btw not so easy to proof), shouldn't be punished by imprisonment. In fact most frauds aren't.
What you're doing is taking away a child's mother and presumably it's father. Do get what exactly? vengeance? Punishment is only part of a prison sentence , the others are protecting the public (not applicable here ) and rehabilitation

[TheFurstyFerret]

Put the woman in prison and place her baby in care is what should happen. I am fed up of society going soft on women because they have a vagina.

[nalaa]

@TheFurstyFerret right because what we need is more kids being torn away from their families and put into the foster system
that can't be a serious suggestion from a man your age.

Guys here are mad beyond reason. You can't put a criminals kid up for adoption. Any criminals. But in this case suddenly guys think it's ok

[TheFurstyFerret]

Ok stick the child in the prison cell with the Mother.

[nalaa]

@TheFurstyFerret imprisoning innocent children. Great idea.
Look you're obviously irrational and hysterical. There's no point arguing with you

[TheFurstyFerret]

No I am just fed up of a species of humans who possess a vagina getting a free pass in society because they have a slit hole that shits life form out. It's nothing to do with irrationality or hysteria.

[nalaa]

@TheFurstyFerret so imprisoning innocent children is the answer. I got it now.

As for asker. It's people like this why your point will never be heard. When you bring it up, people suggest things like that. So it gets dismissed as stupid

[TheFurstyFerret]

Hahaha.

[Marinepilot]

She should have to pay. She must face some kind of penalty for being fraudulent. Many
men would kick her ass and in many countries get away with it. In some countries she would
be killed. If the man didn't do it he would bring shame on his family. Sad but true.

[nalaa]

@Marinepilot that's why when they say "all cultures are equal, just different" I disagree. Some countries are just better than other.
In those countries she wouldn't get killed for lying who the father is, but for adultery or sex outside of marriage. And I for one think we're better than that

Some kind of penalty is very different from imprisonment, which is what the question was about. So not sure what purpose your comment is supposed to serve?

[Marinepilot]

I know that she would be killed in Brazil. Also in Islamic countries. They called
honor killings in my opinion they're very wrong. But they happen.

[Marinepilot]

I like to think we're better than that. But Im not sure.

[cjmtherfcker]

There should be some punishment, jail might be harsh. Maybe if she knowingly withholds the information while making the guy pay child support for years. Just having a hunch that the kid might be someone else's. I would say no

[swirlywirly169]

I feel like it should be punishable by law, it cost the man money and time so it is criminal in nature.

[Illusive_Man]

Of course !
But the problem is... how are you going to prove that the woman was lying with malintent?
Probably a field of law waiting to pop-up.

[Anonymous]

yes! cause what this world needs is more orphaned children. great idea! ;)

[Stephen10]

I see, so women are allowed to get away with telling such horrendous lies? At the very least she should be ordered to pay back the child support that the man paid over many years. To allow women to get away with this is just outrageous.

[Opinion Owner]

ok pay back the money, but taking away that child's only parental support make no sense.

[Stephen10]

Yes, I think you're right. I never thought about that before asking the question.

[Marinepilot]

Some have to win and some have to lose.

[jacquesvol]

Are men who make a baby with a married woman jailed?
Are men who make a baby and then 'forget' a woman jailed?