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Women have become more independent and thus able to make greater demands on men in their lives IF they want to be with them.
Since men already have that independence and see women as equals is it therefore ok for men to expect women to be more emotionally resilient in compensation for them becoming less resilient so a meeting in the middle can occur.
It's only fair if both sides are prepared to make compromise, isn't it?
I believe you need emotional resilience to be emotionally available.
Aren't they each end of a spectrum of how to deal with experiences?
No. Being emotionally resilience gives you the courage to be vulnerable, the ability to communicate and to build emotional intimacy with your partner which you don't with other interpersonal relationships.
I would say those two go quite well hand in hand.
Resilience isn't about communicating and sharing or burdening others though is it?
It's more about taking things on oneself and processing things then moving on.
I can see you have pin pointed a small portion of a whole theory, where multiple of factors play a role into building that emotional resilience to begin with and how it comes to play in for example interpersonal relationships.
If you think a loved one, discussing their problems, either just to vent or have a outside perspective (because let me honest here, we are NOT all knowing beings who have the solution for everything in life we encounter) as a huge burden, then I'd say that you lack emotional resilience. You're letting their problem and issues, effect you negatively. Opposed to a person with emotional resilience, who is capable of regulating their own emotions and would be able to be in that situation without it being a burden or a overwhelming negative experience. Emotional resilience isn't about being emotionally stunt, and never expressing your emotions to others.
You'll get a second part.
Now you've have made the choice to go anon so I can not look up the stats for your location but where I'm at, mens suicide rate for the past 20 years (from 2021) has been steady at 16-22% while women at 5-7%.
One thing that has been drilled into mens heads is that emotional vulnerability, communication and mostly needing help as something beneath them and unmasculine. (Which also accounts into factors why men seek less treatment that women when faced with medical issues).
Another big factor is that men tend to be lonelier, creating less close interpersonal relationships, which by the way is also a factor into having emotional resilience to begin with.
I could go on but I think I got something there. Apologies for perhaps not correct terminology, I'm used to speaking about this in danish and a HUGE part of my everyday part.
Being resilient among others who are not means you're their crutch and that's at the core of this query. That MEN are pressed upon by women to do as you describe and be there to be vented at while men don't and often won't for legitimate reasons for another thread, women on the other hand tend to NOT follow the second behaviour because they rely on others (not only men because their friendship groups and families are there to provide that resilience in the interpersonal bond) but the query is meant on a personal level.
Individually is it accurate to say women want to fit into the first mode of relying on interpersonal relationships while men tend to exist in the second mode you describe and that the imbalance created places greater burden on men (dealing with their own internally AND their partners venting and emotional regulation) and expectations that THEY should change and be more expressive with women and rely on the interpersonal shared resilience of the first mode. I believe if women were to take mode 2 as a growth target, the stress and anxiety of modern life would reduce and reduced instances of stress related illness and need for treatment could arise. Objectively what do you think about that? Men who've been instructed of late to be more emotive and less "masculine" in their expressiveness or women who've been controlling the narrative here to perhaps look at how men deal with things in a more stoic fashion (not stunted as many like to chastise men as being because it's women suffering more readily, deeply and longer from stress)
Women's suicide ATTEMPTs are about 3 to 4 times higher. Like most things, men don't fuck about when they set their mind to achieve something.
I am Northern Europe and I think the trend is the same all over western democracies and even around the world the same.
Men are and always have been told that they are expendable and no message otherwise has ever come out. They are reminded from youth that girls are smarter, they are more delicate, treat them with care, look out for them and protect them WITH YOUR LIFE. That they are also not to burden others with their troubles. THAT'S why they've built this independent resilience to difficulties. It's been a good thing because when shit hits the fan you NEED men to step into the breach and go save people without them worrying about their personal safety. Just think about firefighters, coastguards, even police and soldiers.
It's not that it's deemed beneath them, it's that men WANT to solve their own problems and take pride in NOT burdening others.
I saw a Youtube clip of a Tedtalk done by Brene Brown who was approached by a father after her talk who asked her book on shame and said that she didn't discuss vulnerability with men and how that it was very convenient because his wife and daughters would rather he died than fell off his white horse as the resilient foundation of their family.
See now we're getting into the root of this.
I do understand there are legitimate reasons towards WHY men to internalise their emotions and problems both on a structural level and even experienced which is HIGHLY related to this subjects and some of the HUGE issues affecting men in my location I've addressed. And I do apologies for my usage of "emotionally stunted" looked more deeply into it. As I said, I'm working on a disadvantage with foreign terminology. It's on me. I mean, I do understand how experiences with women do effect the ability to be vulnerable with them. I've had the same problem with men.
I too have an issue, where my own experiences and the similar experiences of others, have a tendency to overwhelm my rationality. IRL I'm actually pretty rational about it, on here on the other hand not so much, I don't know why but some people's mind set here just puff. Working on it. (I'm sorry if this feels like me burdening you but I'm more so connecting, relating, expressing that I empathise with your standpoint, despite of disagreeing).
I now have a partner, where we're BOTH emotionally vulnerable and emotionally supportive. That is the core of our relationship. That is how we get through the high and low, not only as indivuals but also as a couple.
And I don't know if you completely just overlooked my second reply completely, or it just doesn't fit your narrative but it kinda shows that I am AWARE of the stress men face and the consequences of it. That I'm aware that there are mechanics within our society and that I'm not looking at this from the eyes of a "female".
This is not just an issues within interpersonal relationships, this has damaging and devastating effects of men (and women) around the world which seems from our way of thinking, our mindsets - as you, yourself say. Change does not happen overnight, I'm sorry but societal change happens painfully slow and ALWAYS has. (Again not looking from the perspective of a female but just overall, people have been treated worse than animals throughout history for DECADES, note I said people, not females and still do in some places)
Thanks for that, though I do think you're missing the point of treating men's mode of operating as by default worse that it's "internalising" while not dealing with the "externalising" or burdening that women do. Can't you see dumping emotional baggage on others doesn't deal with the internal harm because it just SPREADS the emotional trauma/turmoil among others and men's natural problem solving nature is suppressed because of this so they feel hemmed in being a buttress of emotional management for the women around them.
You've come at this with the mindset that the way women do it MUST be the right way because they get stressed, get treatment and... don't get better... still keep trying to self delete more.
Since the evidence that men DON'T experience stress (that it's life harming) so easily, deeply or for as long then MAYBE women could learn from THAT as it's evidence based that men cope better because of their "internalising" and processing of emotional issues.
Relationships where being vulnerable is a next step to improvement where IF there's a need such as significant events like family death, serious illness, pregnancy, job loss, etc. THEN the shared resilience is where it can come to play an important role, but this is more about the individual being resilient and responsible for their own behaviour.
Your second reply here starting "And I don't know"
The specific stressors faced by men and women aren't the point here, but the individuals behaviour toward them being harmful to others (offloading their emotions on others) or dealing with them themselves.
Sorry, I was just inpatient - you see how I made a remark I wasn't finished. That would've been nice. Just you know 1-1 communication tool to use online where you're not faced with a conversational partner.
What you mentioned are STRUCTURAL factors, which I'm sorry I can't really change. And I'm sorry but I suggest you stop looking at it from PURELY a male perspective and think structural. Do I reject that there are females out there, that preach emotional vulnerability without understanding it? Absolutely not. Am I refusing that there are females out there, that are a cause for a lot of what males go through?
Should I condemned you for the actions of the PEOPLE I've encountered?
(Damn, I think you just helped me resolve my issue on here not because you wanted to but by default by me having this conversation and relating to your issues and where you're coming from in your mind set. (Part of being emotionally vulnerable) - would probably have reached it on my own, but little outside perspective, since I'm not all knowing, helped) Ty
I get it and you're welcome to my therapy session, I'll send you the bill in SEK lol.
I don't see these as structural though. More PERSONAL as in COULD women benefit from copying men with internally dealing with things BEFORE needing to vent just as men have been pushed these last 2 or 3 generations to be more like women and "open up" , don't bottle it up (why not if you can do it yourself then crack on get it done and let others live in peace?), let it all out (when you don't want to or need to?)
The structural things MAYBE that women are taught to EXPRESS their emotions in a bid to get help or support whether they need it or not (learned helplessness perhaps as men keep being told they demonstrate) or for validation to be seen and acknowledged and you bring up that men are expected to deal with things themselves AND DO so which is why I've put this question given the huge dependence on anxiety drugs most common in Scandinavia (you would know I expect too) the largest consumers being women. Would teaching women how to deal with things as men do have an impact (that's opposite to the current narrative)?
I could get all conspiracy theorist with suggestions that the drug and therapy industries WANT people to need therapy and drugs but then that would be tongue in cheek (perhaps).
The thing is, I don't think it's by "default", we are social creatures and you're solely looking at a human being through the glasses of one theory, blinded by everything else. And you even soley focus on ONE part of a model, completely blinded by the outside factors SURROUNDING it.
We refer to that as tunnel visions and oh boy, I've gone through a LOT of those. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're curious about things and watching YT but watch out. I had professors irking my world view, you should try and look at other perspectives around the issue.
I'm glad I've a partner who has the emotional resilience to give me other perspectives on things and is secure to seek the same with me. I hope you find the same despite of society.
Women haven't ALWAYS been taught to express their emotions tho, and it still shows in society today. I know that might not matter to you, since it does not effect men but none the less that is still the thing. You suggest I open my eyes towards your perspective, how about you open your eyes towards just any other perspective than your own?
You're blaming a highly complex matters and blaming it on ONE thing. Which by the way, I have accepted that is a FACTOR of this all.
"Hey, if women were just more like men everything would be perfect because that is how the world was when they weren't expressing their emotions and issues that don't relate to me" is now you sound. That doesn't shout emotional resilience.
Here's a great example actually, my man came home from work, it was a hard day and there's nothing either he or I can do about it. He just has to feel his emotions.
So he could choose to just sit down, and not share, do his own thing but because he knows I love him and that I've the emotional resilience to handle his emotions and that he's not a burden to me even when not perfectly balanced he actually shared. He could be doing his own thing but we talked, he expressed his emotions and the hardship of watching someone in pain without being able to help, and from your perspective that has somehow what, turned him into a less of a man? Because that is actually the narrative you're selling. His emotions matter, and when he's down of going through his emotions. Then I as is partner want to make things easier for him and expect nothing less from him.
You're spinning this into a relationship goal which could just as easily be turned into a friendship group or family group treatment of emotional experience. It's going beyond the individual as not everyone is in a relationship and often times another isn't even there to share with. The concept of resilience is an individual trait that makes the individual less of a burden on others.
I am also not placing a value on being more resilient as an individual like you're suggesting. If he didn't share it and let it go as part of life then would things be different? If he'd been able to do that would he be MORE resilient or stunted like so many women insist men are for not sharing things (ignoring that they DON'T need to or even WANT to because of that RESILIENCE they have)? I think you're putting value on what I am saying as from an expressive type that "bottling it up" is somehow bad. I am not saying either is good or bad, only that it could be a reason for people suffering stress unnecessarily because, like a virus, it spreads and doesn't necessarily get treated until it's ruminated over for a long time.
Holding on to emotions is where stress arises, letting them go (the relationship dynamic in your case may share it adding to everyones burden and heighten risk of stress) may be a solution to a stress "epidemic".
The current framing of men as stunted and unavailable is whack because it fails to recognise that men aren't suffering (or as some will insist, don't know they're suffering really because they're stunted) because they actually DEAL with it themselves as they've had to do throughout evolution and have better emotional regulation as a result. NO one recognises this and seems to see it as a NEGATIVE... It's baffling that there's a solution staring everyone in the face but not being promoted.
You simply refuse to listen. I can see you lack in both emotional resilience all the way through.
And aoght, remove relationship goals. I except my friend's know they're not a burden to me, not is my family. That they are all such a huge burden to you when they're not in balance, shows that YOU lack emotional resilience because you can't handle it.
Accordibg to you then him sharing means he's like a female and incapable of handling his own feelings.
That is the narrative you're playing, and it's sad and that you keep insisting that being able to share and communicate your feelings, like you're actually doing now turns men into women.
You're realising, through this conversations, YOU are portraying emotional vulnerability.
I already apologies for the wrong wording "emotionally stunted" but like with the theory you look at one little part of a big picture and shut you're eyes towards everything else.
I don't get why you're asking questions, when you clearly have the whole truth, tne only perspective - the only way, while lacking the emotional recilince to handle the fact that people are not like you.
You're letting them effect you negatively. You're blaming them for your inability to regulate and control your emotions, that in fact is the OPPOSITE of being respinsible for your own emotions and behaviour. Seems like evolution forgot you while evolving emotional recilince.
Now have a good day, I can see no matter what that you just wish women were more like men and men who communicate, have enough emotional resilience to be in negative situation without it spinning their world into overwhelming negative experience.
Oh alright. Men aren't suffering, yet you're here crying about hard times men are faced with and how society has been a meany to them and therefore they can't help being as they are and if they change they turn into the horrific thing as a woman.
Have a good day.
Can't have any negativity sway your way, you might not be emotionally recilient enought to be faced with such a thing. Your emotions are easily influenced by others and negativity.
Come back to be when you've actually read up on theories, and understand how the complexity of the psychology behind the human being and how you can't just pinpoint a small portion of one theory and claim that is the mere truth. Come back to me, when you're capable of looking at this from other than your perspective and the glasses you're wearing. Then I'll be more than gladly to discuss with you. Right now I don't wanna play this role of you throwing out the narrative that men being emotionally vulnerable, them communicating and sharing would turn them into women.
You would fiction PERFECTLY in a two party system, where you've little to have to connect together - short and simple,. is how you gather things.
If anyone NEEDS to have their emotions validated by others just to move on then that is NOT resilient, that's the opposite.
If you need the definition of resilience explained to you then look it up.
His sharing is a choice, if he WANTS to then fine, but it's JUST as valid to NOT share it and deal with it instead of being an emotional vampire and expect someone to share it because YOU want them to. That's tiresome and draining when it's not necessary.
YOU're saying it's negative to DEAL with emotions INTERNALLY when I've explained why it's NOT. Stress comes from overloading and overwhelming emotional burden. By sharing that is ADDING emotional burden to others that you could deal with internally. It's like a child crying and wanting consoled all the time. How is that resilient?
It's shown by the evidence that women (the ones insisting like you are here, on SHARING and burdening others by ruminating on things) suffer more easily, deeper and longer from stress. WHY is it so difficult for you to ignore that?
Men aren't crying about being men, they're pissed off that they're STILL the bottom of the pile, regarded as worse than animals, threats to everyone, dangerous to many, creeps and the lowest on the pecking order for opportunity. No one comes to save men when they're in danger apart from other men. They also have the responsibility for holding up the key functions of society for everyone, are the ones doing the dangerous, dirty and antisocial jobs.
BUT THAT ISN'T what this thread is about.
The theories put a business model on the human condition. That having people NEED therapy, NEED drugs, BE anxious, depressed, stressed is PROFITABLE. If you aren't prepared to see how things are in the commercial world of treatment then you're blinkering your outlook and chugging the Kool Aid.
Pushing men to behave like women is the current narrative with BEING expressive, OPEN yourself up, BE stressed, ANXIOUS, DEPRESSED because that way there will be more business to feed that industry.
LIFE should be getting easier with better technology but it's not because if it did then fewer people would be stressed and depressed. WHY? The theory here is BECAUSE the push is to be that way by encouraging the spread of becoming overly sensitive and bothered by shit that shouldn't bother you because you're resilient enough to deal with it in the first place. By ruminating on minor things, they swell and grow into larger things ADDING to the emotional burden. Sharing that does the same. The phrase a problem shared is a problem halved is a myth. It's now a problem for two people instead of one without it being solved. IF you can solve it, SOLVE it and move on. Too much ruminating makes humans depressed.
Is the insinuation here that men are more emotionally resilient?
Stress is a killer in humans.
Men's response to stress is stronger (more resilient) by being less impactful, shorter lasting and slower to impact.
Read into that what you like. It's women who seek treatment and medication for stress related illness more than men and are multiple times more likely to attempt to self delete (though complete it at a lower rate) than men.
There are multiple ways to interpret the fact that women seek treatment for stress-related illnesses more often than men. It could be suggested that your theory is correct, of course, but we're also not taking other factors into account—such as whether women tend to experience more environmental stressors than their male counterparts in the first place. This could explain the aforementioned disparity in treatment-seeking. Have you explored all possible avenues here, or did you already decide what you believed to be true?
I of course have my own experiences and biases but am seeking the views of others.
However, you bring up something interesting that perhaps women DO experience existence at a more stressful level and are thus more likely to end up needing something to alleviate that so seek men to be more available FOR them in an asymmetric emotional provision dynamic. That being said, could women learn from how men deal with emotional experiences in that they experience, then deal with it internally so as not to involve others because it would amplify or spread the emotional experience to others in the "sharing is caring" kind of way?
My charming purpose here on Girls Ask Guys is to help humans decode each other's mysteries. 🔍 About emotional resilience, it's absolutely fine for both men and women to have certain expectations, as long as they're fair and balanced. Relationships flourish when both partners grow together, support each other, and, yes, compromise! Embracing emotional resilience doesn't mean becoming stone-cold; it's about growing together, understanding, and supporting each other's vulnerabilities. Balance and mutual growth make the heart dance! 💃💙🕺
This isn't necessarily about relationship dynamics though and more about individual self reliance and resilience
Opinion
0Opinion
Emotional availability only happens with emotional resilience. I don’t think you know psychology as well as your non-psych podcasts teach you
Resilience means emotional regulation in that it means the processing of emotions can be more readily accomplished internally than requiring validation and expressing in public.
Which podcasts do you presume (wrongly) I consume?
Are you saying that emotional resilience by dealing with emotional experiences internally and not seeking external validation or emotional availability are the same thing?
Is that what you think emotional resilience is?
Is it wrong because the words used suggest an individual ability to adapt to life's ups and downs NOT requiring others to be there for you to deal with it.
I’m having a really hard time understanding your wording tbh. Do you think you could split that question into 2 complete sentences so I can better understand?
You asked if the notion that emotional resilience (dealing with things internally and not burdening others with it) and emotional availability (being present to absorb the emotional outpouring from others) follow on from each other? You implied it was wrong.
Emotional resilience is the individual capacity to deal personally with the ups and downs of life WITHOUT relying on others to manage your emotional experience.
Emotional Availability is the capacity to be there to absorb the emotional flow from others.
I don't see how one follows the other
Why do you consider being open with your partner to be not resilient?
Venting or sharing emotions when it's unnecessary shared those emotions with someone else that may induce negative feelings creating a stressor in the non experiencing person. The idea that sharing is caring is a bad idea. Raising everyone's stress levels because one is stressed is unnecessary.
It's normal until it becomes a harmful or unnecessary burden to others though. Men's are generally more internal stress managers around women and the notion that men's vulnerability is often brought up by women close to them as a weapon puts a negative spin on the sharing and trusting dynamic between couples.
It still doesn't address the fact of whether it is NECESSARY to emote in the first place. Dealing with something yourself and building resilience without impacting others is surely a more positive trait than emoting because you can because it won't necessarily diminish the stress brought on by experiencing some event.
If you learn to process and deal with it internally and NOT burden others then that's a good thing surely. Like solving a problem so it's not longer a problem and moving on to the next challenge. Ruminating by spreading an an emotion onto others isn't necessarily a good thing.
Surely venting is like spreading the negativity further and can't be a good thing?
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