Is Religion Necessary? - A personal experience.

[najekim]

Another life story from this old fart. Many centuries ago I met up in a coffee house with a Rabbi, an Imam, a Minister, and a Priest. My base question to each of these gentlemen was this: Is religion actually necessary?

And off we went for the next hour or so discussing their respective religions. The good points, the bad points, the expectations, the rewards, the punishments, what each thought of the other's religions and why some were becoming more popular than others.

When the dust settled and the dregs were left, a consensus was tentatively reached that each religion could respect. These were:

1) People actually do NOT need religion.
2) People not needing religion must have a strong faith in themselves.
3) A person might want a religion.
4) Every religion has it's good points and it's bad points.
5) All religions were deeply respected by these men.
6) For a person wanting faith in a religion, they must surrender themselves to it.
7) Free will and religious dogma do not co-exist.
/8) Religion is a crutch for most people.
9) To accept a religion you must become what it wants you to be.
10) Yes, religion is a tool to placate the crowds.

It was amazing watching these men of faith tell about their faith in their religion and how easy they took compliments and criticisms for their faiths. I was impressed with the fact that most these men visits each other's place of worship to help understand the differences and try to come up with ways for the religions to co-exist.

The final thing that came out of the discussion was that Mankind will never truly become one people as long as there are more than one religion and theirs was not the religion to unite the Earth.

[jacquesvol]

I've been doing without those last 71 years. I never missed religion.
People need empathy, not religion

causes-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/.../7OB.jpg

[jacquesvol]

https://i.imgur.com/YaX4OBq.jpg

[RicoSuave123]

HAHAAHA lol
when idiots talk lol

[Bellice]

If you can’t be a good person without religion, then you’re not a good person to begin with.

[satankicksgodsass]

BEAUTIFULLY SAID! THANK YOU!

[RicoSuave123]

so you mean everyone on earth cause you are all fucking evil lol

[ladsin]

Sounds like a fun discussion, wish I could've been a drunk fly on the wall.

[hellionthesagereborn]

we do need religion. Individually probably not but socially yes because it creates a frame work which allows the society to function. Without that "higher power" society becomes broken because we function on a heirachy and removal of religion removes the top of that hierarchy. Without that looming above their is no particular goal in society you just are which eventually results in a break down of motivation (becoming decadent which in turn breaks the society). It also does not hold the people near the top accountable as they are now free to act with impunity and I think they tend to try and take the place of god, manipulating society to create what they feel is a "perfect" society (which usually collapses because we are so complicated that we cannot fully grasp all of our motivations and thus the potential consequence of removing this or that). But that's just my off the top of my head opinion. Jordan Peterson actually talks about this (you can look him up on youtube) and the necessity of religion, its actually quite interesting because he doesn't take it from a religious approach but a psychosocial approach.

[curiousnorway]

I think it's very individual when it comes to who needs a religion like other needs. Some may need it, while other don't need it at all. It's similar to some needs glasses to see, while others don't. I mean people have different needs and interests, and not everyone is the same.

It's true religion has been used to control the masses. But to be honest, I think religion has both positive and negative things with it. It don't need to be either A or B and it can be both. Religion is like a car. It can be used for the good - where religion gives hope and purpose, while a car can make you go from one place to another one quicker. But it can also be used badly and abused - where the religion can be used to control and discriminate people while bad drivers can kill people with their cars.

[dandee55]

"Many centuries ago"? I understand you're old (ish), but wow; that is old!

No, religion is not necessary. It's basically a bunch of rules and rituals. True Christianity is not "religion" (and you don't say what denomination the minister was). It's a faith/relationship with God. Very religious people were the ones who wanted to kill Jesus (although, the reason he came to earth was to die for us) and another very religious person, named Saul (later Paul) persecuted and killed Christians (before he became one himself). And meeting together with those we agree with helps strengthen our faith. The early Christians met with each other in homes, worshipping, teaching, eating, etc. And they shared with each other if someone was in need.

[John_Doesnt]

According to Freud humanity needed religion in the past when we were first evolving and forming societies. Humans needed an invisible threat to stop killing, raping and torturing each other. But now that humans have gotten to a scientific and rational stage it is time to cast religion off as a shackle. It's time for humans to grow up and stop believing in an imaginary figure.
i.ytimg.com/vi/kJD_UbrN9mU/maxresdefault.jpg

[hise-DepartmenT]

If I take the opposite of Heads, it's Tails but both Heads and Tails is still a coin. So 'atheism' and theism is both a religious viewpoint.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Yet you can't prove God is imaginary and resort to mockery and false dichotomies that burden of proof is only on theists, when it's not.

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT you're wrong on both, because there are people who believe in God and do not have a religion.
I can prove God is imaginary because there is no evidence for any God. That's all that's needed to prove that something isn't real: lack of evidence. The burden of evidence is always on the person making the claim.

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT s.quickmeme.com/.../...6239fe6f60fc7519dc63c7f.jpg

[hise-DepartmenT]

It's a religion. They just don't call it that.

You mean they don't have a sect.

Lack of evidence is not proof.

So I can prove there is a God because there's a lack of evidence that there's no God.

[hise-DepartmenT]

The person of proof is not only on the claimer.

strangenotions.com/.../

[hise-DepartmenT]

I meant burden of proof, not person of proof.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Lack of evidence, if indeed evidence is lacking, is no grounds for atheism. No one thinks there is good evidence for the proposition that there are an even number of stars; but also, no one thinks the right conclusion to draw is that there are an uneven number of stars. The right conclusion would instead be agnosticism.

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT 4 responses, don't you have anything better to do? I must be shaking your faith for you to keep following me.

[hise-DepartmenT]

I'm shaking your faith in 'atheism' too.

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT no, you're just annoying.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Because you have no oppositions towards it to present.

You're either refusing to give or or you want to keep it personal.

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT There are two types of atheological arguments:

Logical Arguments attempt to show that the concept of God is self-contradictory or logically inconsistent with some known fact
Evidential Arguments attempt to show that certain known facts that are consistent with theism nevertheless provide evidence against it.
A Christian God is self contradictory because there cannot be an all powerful all loving God who allows suffering to exist in a world he created. The evidence for a creator is also contradictory because evolution only works after the mistake has already been made, any proof of a creator would demonstrate forethought not simply fixing the problems that already existed.
As for evidence against God: Christians claim God can cure all diseases, yet we have evidence of multiple conditions which have never been healed on there own: amputees, broken teeth, birth defects. Lastly, you won't read this whole thing, so I can call you a smelly tard at the end.

[hise-DepartmenT]

QUESTION: Is there any proof that God exists?

ANSWER:

Is there any proof that God exists? Whenever this question comes up, I am always reminded of Thomas in the Bible who would not believe that Jesus was alive until he could touch Him. That is the same analogy many people use today when it comes to answering the question “Is there any proof that God exists?” They want physical proof for something that must be taken on faith value.

It takes greater faith to believe that an unseen God exists than it does to just dismiss Him because you cannot physically confirm that He is there. For those who deal in evidence there is proof all around you and inside of you that God does exist.

[hise-DepartmenT]

www.allaboutphilosophy.org/...t-god-exists-faq.htm

[hise-DepartmenT]

That's why 'atheists' and other religions are more religious than Christians.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Does God Exist - Things to Consider
Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:

Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?

[hise-DepartmenT]

The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?
Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

[John_Doesnt]

@hise-DepartmenT is it possible for you to respond in less than 3 posts? I've got better things to do than read your "La la la, I can't hear you" arguments.

[hise-DepartmenT]

You also have no arguments because if you did, you'd know that God created things perfect but man corrupted it.

[RegularTK421]

Yeah, nice made up bullshit story. You just happen to get 4 men of 4 different faiths, to meet with you to agree with your viewpoints on religion? Not only that, but these same 4 men, decided to become religious leaders of their respective communities and dedicate a career to serving their faith, only to say that they all agree people don't need religion. Lmao, stop fucking lying. If you don't believe in it, just say so, don't make up some bullshit scenario to try to persuade others to mold to your viewpoints.

[RegularTK421]

It doesn't make your views any more authentic either.

[Anonymous]

Religion is more than an institution and a "forcing people to be good" kind of mentality. Religious people are a group of people who just need love, to be filled with love by their God so that they can learn to love others. They are in search of "spiritual food" that fills them up because we need more than bread but the word of God. That's my religion. It helps me understand love, what I am and who people are according to a true God. It's for me something that brings me peace and clarity and helps me to grow in my faith as well as helps me to grow in my love for God first then also for man kind as a whole.

[SmartGirl92]

I made a post about why I left the church & many religious people went on to tell me how delusional I am. How the devil is tempting to exactly how he wants & I'm making it too easy for him & I'm definitely going to burn in hell. So yeah! I think that covers why I'm much happier without religion in my life. Now I'm happily an atheist who supports TST & I live my life for myself. Which falls in line with a more hedonistic viewpoint.

[Red-Blaze]

Dose not sound to me like they had much faith in there own religion if they agreed on 10 and more
I mean it sounds from all of that like there saying in the end there religion is a lie and they know it...

Or maybe i am missing reading of of that, but sounds over all like there trying playing a rule in a show to help people do stuff, but don't believe in it them self

[Isaack]

It’s nice that they were willing to admit their superfluousness and at least hint at the damage they do to society. It would be better if they just shut down their cult cells and admitted that they don’t have real answers, but were willing to chat about theories.

[NeglectedChild]

What do you mean by need?
Do I need religion to drive a car? Not necessarily
Do I need religion for guidance and to be a good person? Yes

You can live this life roaming around, eating and pooping but that makes you no different from animals.

Muslims believe in free will. God has given mankind the ability to choose from right and wrong; your choices in this life will determine your fate in the next.

[Bellice]

If you need religion to be good, you can’t be a very good person to begin with.

[NeglectedChild]

@Bellice That makes no sense at all. That's like saying "if you need laws to be considered innocent, you can't be innocent to begin with and there for you're guilty".

It's a question of who determines right and wrong.
Religion gives you an objective set of morals to follow as God is the one who determines right and wrong. Without objective morals your definition of right and wrong becomes subjective.

If you ask a non religious person "who determines right and wrong?" they will usually say that people do or that the consensus of the majority does, similar to a true/direct democracy.
True/direct democracies suffer from a problem called tyranny of the majority. And this tyranny would also apply to this set of morals.

If for example an entire country believes that homosexuality should be punished my death, if you adopt the "consensus of majority" set of morals then there should be no problem with doing that. Despite it conflicting with the secular post modernist status quo.

[Anonymous]

you are stupid
one there will come a time when a one world religion will rise up
that's a fact
it's basically gonna be satanism packed in a pretty bow
and tons of people will go to it cause they made the choice not to study their ancient texts and stay stupid

second, GOD does exist, he is only a few miles away not far
literally right above us

so everyone is without excuse
I do not care what area you grow up in,
the same story of the bible is in India, China, Sumeria, Europe,
name an island
it's all over the earth

Job 37:18
hast thou with him spread out the sky which is strong and as a molten looking glass

GOD is above us no excuses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAcp3BFBYw4&t=6s

[Goochbreaker]

don't do the devil's work for him. Yeah, this is where we are heading, one big satanist world, we are pretty much there right now as all current iterations of the major religions slant heavily towards satanism. Go to whatonearthishappening. com and visit the podcast section, start from #1

[Opinion Owner]

@Goochbreaker

I want you to understand something
IM TIRED

so many lies
so much bull crap
ughh I can't wait to be with my Lord
so if you hear frustration from me do not be surprised
it's so clear GOD is real

and i'd rather be angry in truth
then be angry in a lie

but thank you
and I will go look it up

[Goochbreaker]

dude you are so right and I understand, I am more furious at this point in my life than I have ever been, you already get what's going on so listening to the podcasts won't make you any angrier, but damn, did it make me angrier... knowing the truth. I would rather see the world for the burning pit of hell that it is than pretend it's some utopia like I used to... you are the perfect candidate for this information, start from podcast #1 and be patient it will take months if not years to intake all this information into your worldview, but he will go into the specifics of how this agenda is being perpetrated, what you can do about it, go back into the history of how this all came about, why it worked and why it continues to work, you are right to be angry, but you don't get to rest yet. The lord will have to wait

[Goochbreaker]

we have work to do here

[Opinion Owner]

@Goochbreaker

yup we got work to do :)

and OMG the whole firearms are just paid actors
there is too much fake news reports for me to believe the recent stories

EVERYTHING IS A DAMN LIE
once I did the research
all government leaders are satanist from every country

and america is just invading other countries
and I believe they are trying to herd the people now since the mark of the beast is out in
public

if you can herd everyone,
you can mark everyone

I believe that's why they are accepting refugees from every country

[Goochbreaker]

all satanists, correct

[Ahsthen]

Negative, mijo. I am God. KNEEL, BEFORE ME! No, don't, gee whiz.

[SirRexington]

I dont beleive so, but some people genuinely find happiness in religion or a given set of rules. I am not that type of person so its difficult for my to understand where they are coming from as in my experience religion is full of shit, regardless of the name of the god or religion.

[Fiona1993]

I have been an atheist for over 10 years now, and I don't feel any different because of it, except that I stopped being a xenophobe.
Religion is not a moral compass, I can differentiate between right and wrong all on my own.
Religion only taught me how to judge others around me. Sadly, I'm not the only one.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Yeah but you believe there's no punishment if you chose to do wrong and no reward if you chose to do right.

Sometimes during life, people are not fairly judged.

[Bellice]

@hise-DepartmenT it might not be fair at all that horrible people go through their whole lives and are not punished at the end. But fairness doesn’t determine truth or fact.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
Well people have different views. Some believe in God and some choose not to.

[Fiona1993]

@hise-DepartmenT
Life is not fair, and according to many religions, afterlife is not fair either. If you ever read the Bible, you know what I'm talking about. I became atheist by reading it, just like every single atheist I met. Oh, the Irony!!!
And if you are choosing to treat others with kindness and respect only because you are afraid of punishment, then sorry, but you are not a good person, you are just doing this to save your own ass. I chose to be a good person because that is who I want to be, not because I think that some immortal deity might punish me for choosing otherwise.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Fiona1993
But some former 'atheists' change into believing in God too. People have their reasons. It's not just based on randomly choosing it.

[Mikey_Ramone]

My ex infatuation from Canada she's a true God believer and a Bible worshipper. What I disliked about her regardless her very nice behaviour and feelings to me it was all about her religious views. She's quote the Bible all the time and even my friend a very patient dude would ask for her prayers and thoughts sending to him - eventually he couldn't stand it. Whatever it is, it should be just as good as enough, but not too much.

[hise-DepartmenT]

That's a crude way to view it. It's amazing how people view Christianity as a religion, yet 'atheism' is more of a religious belief than Christianity is. For those who want to debate, I'm not. If you're not wise enough to grasp and have an understanding what I'm implying, so be it.

[Bellice]

Well actually if you look up the definition of religion, it is the belief in a god or supernatural entity. Atheism is the disbelief or rejection of such a thing. Atheism could not be further removed from religion. It is literally it’s exact opposite. I don’t know why people don’t understand this.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
Because you view religious as a secular minded person and not a Godly minded person. 'Atheism' is a religious belief and most 'atheists' are more more religious than Christians themselves.

www.standleague.org/.../...s-are-smarter-myth.html

Atheism is as much of a religious belief as any kind of “theism,” mono, poly or what have you. There is no empirical proof of the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being. Any assertion for or against it is a belief regarding religion, and therefore a religious belief.

[Bellice]

Well here is another source..

While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more humorous way: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Despite the fact that atheism is not a religion, atheism is protected by many of the same Constitutional rights that protect religion. That, however, does not mean that atheism is itself a religion, only that our sincerely held (lack of) beliefs are protected in the same way as the religious beliefs of others. Similarly, many “interfaith” groups will include atheists. This, again, does not mean that atheism is a religious belief.

www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
Atheism is a religon of self, aka 'me'ology rather than theology.

'Atheists' have their own way of thinking, mindset and traditions. Epitomizes being a religion because it's religiosity, part of the religion-head.

You can call it a fact all you want that 'atheism' is not a religion but it's holding a certain view based on religion, which means it's a religion.

If I take the opposite of Heads, it's Tails but both Heads and Tails is still a coin. So 'atheism' and theism is both a religious viewpoint.

[hise-DepartmenT]

Of course that article is written by Atheists.

[Bellice]

You must disagree with the dictionary definition of religion then?

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
No. Just the interpretation of the definition.

You're seeing it in terms of fixation vs non-fixation of a belief. I'm seeing it in terms of continuum, of a belief.

You see it as if something is there, then it's fixed as that. If it's not, then the opposite is not there.

I see it if you have heads and tails. If you're not heads, you're tails and vice versa.

[Bellice]

Hmm I see what you're saying but I disagree with the two sides of the same coin thing. Atheism and actual religions are not even on the same coin. Atheism isn't a way of life, doesn't have traditions or particular set of values or beliefs. It is simply the lack of belief in a god. Very simple. Nothing more or less.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
It's still a choice concerning religion. That's why the term is within the word. But so be it.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
You're making the decision not to accept theism.

If I make the decision not to accept a bowl of soup, the bowl of soup was still part of the 2 choices regarding the acceptance or rejection of it.

[Bellice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHsFA7cp7M0

If you can be bothered, have a look here. Matt explains it pretty well.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
That's cool but I can send videos that debunks it.

[Bellice]

You barely watched it...

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
All 'atheists' can be debunked with simple things. Dawkins has been stumped. I'll watch it in morning. Can't play sound at this time. It'll wake up my important people.

[Bellice]

Oh gee. Look I don't think there's any point trying to have a rational discussion anymore. Thanks and bye.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
Yeah because 'atheists' are religious and you know it.

Also, I can't play the sound right now on my computer at this time. Wait 8 hours and I'll listen.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
You are arrogant and think you're right and that you're rational and I am not.

[Bellice]

I am right :)

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
You already know 'atheism' is a religion. I proved it to you.

Atheism is as much of a religious belief as any kind of “theism,” mono, poly or what have you. There is no empirical proof of the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being. Any assertion for or against it is a belief regarding religion, and therefore a religious belief.

Nothing you say can take away the continuum of the have and not have. I presented you with theism. To reject is partaking upon the opposite view. To not believe in God is making a decision concerning religion and hereby is a religious belief and de facto a religion in the essence.

Atheism is a religion. Say whatever you want. You believe it. I believe and so called 'atheists' know it and can't deny that it's a religion. All people are religious because it encompasses a belief concerning a mindset or tradition.

Especially God and exclusively God is different things. Religious can be without God but usually not.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
If a person was smarter than their debater, they'd not claim to be rational by jabbing at their opponent. It shows wuss-hood and a tendency to not address the basis upon the given encounter I presented.

[Bellice]

So not drinking alcohol is a form of alcoholism, not partaking in sports is a form of activity, standing still is a mode of transport, not watching tv is a hobby, not having children makes one a parent. This is the level of rationality I am hearing from you so that is why I can no longer stand to discuss it.

[hise-DepartmenT]

@Bellice
Those are things on a composite vs non-composite basis, not a continuum basis.

If I provide to you a bowl of soup and you reject it, you made a decision based on what's presented.

You're not an 'atheist' by default but because you refused to accept it. You didn't decide to be an atheist based upon randomness but by not believing in theism. Thus religious.

Alcohol is a condition, not a belief.

[Gedaria]

That is where faith comes in you have to make sure what you believe in. Many people just follow an ideal,,(it sounds good) without really proving it is true. In the Bible are many things talked about have been proved to be true. Many prophecies about Jesus came true. So
looking at its accuracy it is a good thing to study !!!

[Clap-FLUTES-YesYes]

Everybody is religious.

Atheism is as much of a religious belief as any kind of “theism,” mono, poly or what have you. There is no empirical proof of the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being. Any assertion for or against it is a belief regarding religion, and therefore a religious belief.

[Bellice]

Atheism is the disbelief in a god. Religion is belief in a god. They actually could not be more different. The amount of people who think this way hurts my head 😩

[Jmcmanning]

I don't need religion but I do need the Bible and God's word for direction.

[joelkc]

Amen

[Larissa_007]

I'd be lost, you would need real strong mental health to believe everything is a coincidence and that you are nothing.

[Shutupman]

Not really it's harder for me to understand and envision believing in an entity that is either hearthless or powerless.

Whether you believe or not; believing that an entitiy that came out of nowhere created you out of nothing, or the universe came into existence out of nothing and overtime we evolved from that, you both basically came from nothing.

[Bellice]

Yeh I’m with @Shutupman. All through my 13 years of Anglican schooling I never understood it. When we prayed I so desperately wanted there to be something there or to receive an answer. But there was never anything. I feel very satisfied with the notion that my life has no purpose except the purpose I give it. I choose my own path, I’m here for a short time so I better make the most of it, and I am on insignificant speck of dust in the cosmos. If there’s anything I believe in, I believe in myself.

[Larissa_007]

I'd say go take a look at cancer support groups... Just to have an idea about what I mean.
And I believe in myself and in my path too It doesn't mean I sit and pray for the things I want lol

[Shutupman]

My mom had cancer, know lots of people that dealt with the disease. They did not resort to an entity.

[Larissa_007]

@Shutupman Good for them I guess as long as you are happy and a good person you are free to believe whatever you want ;)

[Shutupman]

Very true