Does God unconditionally love us…if we do things his way?

[OddBeMe]

Kinda good point…

[zeitgeist057]

"God" for the vast majority of people is a projected manifestation of their inner psyche, so that's not usually an issue.

If a person hates homosexuals, their "God" does as well.

If a person believes in ____________, their "God" does as well. It's pretty uncommon for people to have views that are in opposition to their "God". And if/when they do, that's kind of a personal matter, since they are battling with their own psyche. What is common, is for people to have desires which they also see as "bad" and condemn/torture themselves for wanting stuff. They can use the projection of "God" as an inspiration to avoid that stuff they have condemned. Example of closet homosexuals who condemn homosexuality.

[lightbulb27]

I've witnessed God's love reach people who were weighted down by the miseries of life. Have to consider it's both sent and received. Unconditionally sent, things you gotta do to receive it.

In essence, it's "connection" and behavior/belief can break the connection...

[OddBeMe]

Sure but its also made people fly planes into buildings.

[lightbulb27]

that doesn't sound right. I think you are referring to Allah or some other god I don't know. Allah is not a god of love, but god of honor and pride. But as well, people can do things in the name of a god, but not be behaving like that god. Jesus of Nazareth did no such thing...

[OddBeMe]

I’m just talking about “gods love”. You and them decide which god you want to try to prove.

But to me, you and Islamists are the same. Not the terrorists, that was a cheeky response. :)

[lightbulb27]

there's certainly commonalities in "beliefs". I think I answered your question... going into beliefs is another thread.

[lightbulb27]

and thus I get the prize... when do I get my Lamborghini?

[OddBeMe]

but you can't deny the 9/11 guys thought they had "gods love"... right?

[lightbulb27]

I don't know enough about them and their thinking for sure. What I've heard, no, I don't think it is love as Christ conveyed. Hijackers thought they were doing good deeds.. yes, going to blissful place to knock off the "evil" that is the West. The evil at it's root was due to dishonoring their god and land (running our military over their sacred lands). They were then "brain washed" by a man to do this work.. not all unlike other "cults". Maybe that is "love" to them. To me, I see "honor" and pride.
that fits nicely into "the knowledge of good and evil" as the bible says. one persons good is anothers evil. It's confounding.
I see feeder emotional roots in the fallout the relationship of the father and respective mothers of the peoples... Sarah and Hagar. Hagar being cast out in desperation, that traumatic wound permeates the mindset of Arab people. Thus there is a "bitter" heart (used, rejected, thrown out). Imagine a pregant woman cast out how she'd feel and what shed pass onto her child about their father!, their concept of love is "slavery... to God"... they see themselves as slaves. That mentality is not seeing themselves as loved by God, as a Christ conveyed it... like a "son" or family member. It's viewed as they are subjects of. A different mentality. I'd be very curious to hear how Muslims describe how they relate to their god and especially the extremist ones. They are very devoted, but I don't think they feel loved. They feel... duty? Honor? I think...

[lightbulb27]

I found this relevant from a "belief" viewpoint: watchfrom 15. xx to 18. xx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fbrl6WoIyo

the point is... what you believe drives your interpretation. that is exactly what I got out of Christ... belief in Christ changes perception... but in a good way. maybe others don't that have the belief. Certainly belief in other "gods" changes belief. To me, the root belief in Christ is love of God, which thus drives interpretation and resolves the big issues of separation/death. that said, we as humans often fail and you see a lot of that, I fail at times to fulfill my calling and heart.

[OddBeMe]

Its good that you're open to them. I’ve found vast majority of islamists live in the west and are just like you and me. Just with their own window dressing traditions.

Its the small minority still living in the hell of the Mid East that we have to worry about.

[lightbulb27]

sure, if I saw the usa on tv and news through the lens of their beliefs, I can see how some would want to destroy us and think it good. ditto the enslavement going on under the radar in UAE. they view it as good to "save" westerners by indocrinating them by slavery.

[Anonymous]

No, that's not true.

If that was true he wouldn't have sent Jesus to die for us all, even though we don't deserve it.

He loves all of us unconditionally, even when we're such sinners.

But ofc, He doesn't get happy to see us committing sins.

I sometimes think that He probably feels sad or disappointed when it happens, but has always hope that we're still going to truly regret our sins and choose to do the right thing.

[AndrésC64]

Why did God have to send himself as a sacrifice to himself in order to save us from what he himself is going to do to us? Why not simply forgive?

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 Some things are a mystery. Only God knows the accurate answer for it.

There's the holy trinity. Holy Father, Holy Son and Holy Spirit.

Even nowadays the whole holy trinity thing is a mystery.
The explanation usually says that they're all God, but at the same time not.

So what I'm trying to say is that not everything has a logical explanation and not everything about God is revealed. Some things He chose to kept as a mystery, mate.

As far as I know (was taught), millions of years ago in the Old Testament, God was really eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If one person would sin, the whole family would suffer the consequences together with that person. Was really the definition of "kill the evil in the bud".

But as time would pass by, God saw how people would keep on committing more and more sins. And He wondered why would we do such a thing, when he already gave all everything. He probably thought humans were ungrateful but still wanted to understand why we act the way we do.

So that's why He sent Jesus to earth as a human. He wanted to know why people commit so many sins, so He needed to live as a human on earth to understand why we are the way we are.

The more Jesus would live, the more he'd understand the situation on earth and the struggles we all pass through. He then understood the other side of the coin (our side of the story) and how hard life sometimes could be. (more or less like this, a pastor can give you a much better explanation).

Then when Jesus sacrificed himself, that was a symbol of God's forgiveness for all of us and the beginning of the New Testament.

Because of that, we all have salvation and will be forgiven even though we're sinners.
As long as we truly and from heart regret for our sins and ask for forgiveness, we shall be given forgiveness (regretting and choosing to do the right thing).
God knows one's heart, as long as we follow God's words we shall receive our salvation.

[Opinion Owner]

Salvation = Live in the heaven with God after our journey on earth.

Had Jesus not sacrificed himself, we'd all be doomed to live in hell for eternity after our journey on earth.

God didn't even need to do all that work. He created us and we're so ungrateful, just that he did all of that just to understand us is already an immense proof of all his kindness, love and mercy.

[AndrésC64]

All that "mystery" stuff is just an excuse for things that are illogical and don't make sense.

And again with the so-called "sacrifice", why didn't he simply forgive? Do you demand a sacrifice before you forgive?

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 It's as clear as water that you're not a believer. If you don't believe alright, but do not try to point out that other's beliefs are wrong.
How old are you? 9? How unethical.

Bear in mind that religion has nothing to do with logic, but faith.
That's not something was can explains with a mathematical calculation, you can only feel it.

I can't do anything if you don't believe, that's your problem.
So, will you please grow up and quit with this foolish argument?

I already explained all I know.
If you want to know everything, then ask God for wiseness and clarity.
Then you'll might understand, or not.

[Opinion Owner]

*one can explain

[AndrésC64]

How is my questioning/examining your beliefs, or even trying to get you to question/examine your beliefs, unethical?

Should we all simply believe everything that we're told without regards as to whether it makes sense or is actually true or not? Why is examining what you believe such a bad thing?

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 I mean, I'm not a pastor. That's what I was taught and believe.
I already told ya there's no mathematical calculation to prove what I said.

No matter what I say, you only look to pinpoint logical facts and point out that what I believe is wrong.
But you seem to forget that faith is not logical.

And yes, questioning and analysing others' beliefs to see if it's right can be seen as rude and unethical. Especially if it's about religion.

If what you're looking for is a logical explanation, you won't find any regarding faith and religion.

[AndrésC64]

Beliefs do not do not deserve respect. Every belief should be subject to questioning and criticism.

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

[Opinion Owner]

My parents taught me to respect other's beliefs and opinions. Just because mine is different, doesn't mean theirs wrong.

So, let's move on from this.

Let you with your beliefs, and let me alone with mine.
Bye

[AndrésC64]

So you think we should respect the beliefs of Nazis and white supremacist groups?

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 Respect and agree are two different things.

I don't agree at all with them, but what can I myself do?

[AndrésC64]

So you respect their beliefs and wouldn't challenge them?

[Opinion Owner]

@AndrésC64 Well, what about yourself?
If I knew one irl, I'd tell them that discrimination is not okay.
But there's not much more to do than that Ig.

[Jennz6]

@AndrésC64 WHY? To show HIS Love ❤️ for us

[AndrésC64]

So all beliefs are not entitled to respect, right?

@Jennz6 What?

[Jennz6]

@AndrésC64 GOD is ❤️ LOVE

[AndrésC64]

God is love? That would explain why there is so much horror in the world and a hell in which people are suffering unimaginal pain for eternity. The true image of love. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[Snsl153]

Yes, this is something that I just could never understand. When someone tells me in all apparent sincerity that "God loves you", but then goes on to list all the things I need to do in order to be "saved", well... that's just completely illogical, and I can't understand it. It makes precisely zero sense.

[ObscuredBeyond]

You're still welcome to not enter Heaven if the homeowner offends you that much. But he'll give you every possible chance to reconsider before the deal is finalized.

He's not going to wipe your mind before that moment, and reduce you to a robot.

Giving you limited capacity for seeing big pictures, plus a meat suit he could also assume, means no need to write you off immediately, like with the fallen angels.

Also, I might still care about my one sister deep down, even after all she's done. But as long as that prick still controls her thoughts, I don't trust her judgment.

As far as she's fallen into NPCdom, I wouldn't trust her around my nephews and nieces. Doesn't mean I hate her. But I'd be a fool to act like she poses no danger, and like I can let her go just anywhere.

Same thing with God handling you.

[AndrésC64]

Riiiiiiiight. It's all our choice, right?

https://youtu.be/Nv9IvCpiHxA

[ObscuredBeyond]

@AndrésC64 : Look at it this way: You can get to know me and desire a good relation or not. But if I don't know you as a friend, and I need to open up my home to everyone who is a friend because a fire is coming and is inevitable, and my house will be the only one that doesn't burn down, but you want to throw one of my friends into the fire and take their good spot for yourself, then in what universe am I obligated to let you get away with that?

Because you are choosing to ignore the order to get aboard while it's good. You are choosing every path except the one that will get you out of the fire. And then when it all burns, you demand that your desire to reap the benefits you didn't sow be honored, at the expense of everyone else.

That makes you a thief and a murderer. All who do not enter by the gate.

There were really only two rules for Noah's Ark: Get in before God shuts the door, and don't do anything stupid while on board (like try to light the ship on fire.)

Noah and his family were the only survivors, because they were the only eight human beings on the planet that could follow two simple rules that any idiot should have been able to understand.

Everyone else was too full of themselves to honor two very basic rules for survival. The whole Earth was Tide Pod stupid, and unworthy of sympathy because of it.

Why would you want to be a rerun of that?

[AndrésC64]

So there are a limited number of seats in heaven?

I've never heard any order. I've heard people tell unbelievable stories that were written down by unknown authors thousands of years ago. But I've never seen/heard an order.

How the F do you figure that me not believing in an invisible being makes me a thief and a murderer?

And God knew that he was going to have to kill everyone except for Noah and his family. Why didn't he simply spare those people from hell and simply get on with it?

[ObscuredBeyond]

@AndrésC64 : If holiness is the standard, and you refuse to be one with the only chance you have to be holy, then Heaven will give you severe God Derangement Syndrome. And in your obsession to remake it in your own image, you'll destroy it.

Not just for you, but for all existence!

Therefore, for that very specific reason, you must attend the banquet with the garment provided you by the king.

You show up in a festering pool of arrogance and entitlement and GDS, you may as well meet with a foreign dignitary dressed in rags soiled in rat poo and period blood.

You're not the victim of anyone but yourself.

[SpaceGalaxy]

People are funny. They believe in an invisible man up in the sky who watches over us and ask him for things yet most things they ask for they never get, so they fool themselves by referring to it as having "faith" which simply means believe in things you cannot prove!

[OddBeMe]

Yeah…god is great, but he’s killed your entire family.

[dustybiker]

But… he too is pre-claimed to be all forgiving in the end. That alone should rule out the possibilities of a hot and toasty credit roll.

[CountessSarah]

Yeah, the only people who think their god is unconditionally loving, are the people who haven't read their religions holy text, or just don't care what it says.

[MiseriaCantareAFI]

So what he's saying is, even if you murder, he'll still love you

which is funny because, aren't abortionists, according to pro lifers, murderers?

So, does god still lvoe abortionists?

[MiseriaCantareAFI]

love*

[OddBeMe]

The bible doesn't count babies as people until a month after theyre born.

[monkeynutts]

Yeah, and the pope needs a gold plated toilet bowl, if you chip in gold will favour you a little more.

[OddBeMe]

All about tithe

[jshm2]

That's a strawman argument.

Nowhere does God say "love you" let alone "unconditional".

The proper term is "Jesus loves you unconditionally, but everyone else thinks you're a cunt"

[OddBeMe]

that's the problem. God has never "said" anything.

[slatyb]

His way? Who knows what that is? Many people are happy to tell you, but they are just telling you their way. No one knows God's way.

[OddBeMe]

very true. even if he exists. no one knows...

[D_Bone_Steak]

If I could get away with killing people for not worshiping me the way I think they should... wouldn't I be God?

[OddBeMe]

I’ve never had someone define a god to me. An advanced alien lifeform could be godlike to us.

[Dargil]

G0d loves us but it is not unconditional. We can forfeit it. He created us and gave us free will. But that does not exempt us from judgment. Hitler had free will.

[OddBeMe]

Being serious, if Hitler asked for forgiveness and loved him some jesus, is he in Heaven?

[Dargil]

That's where "forfeit it" comes in. And nobody, except Jesus Christ is now in heaven. Both the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds state "and (Jesus) will come again to judge the living and the dead." So Adolph has not yet faced judgement and is presently in the ground/purgatory awaiting for his call on the docket, giving him time to contemplate is private oven.

[OddBeMe]

Interesting. So how is purgatory? Like a waiting room? Or are there tortuous/feel good things to do there?

[Dargil]

Maybe like the waiting room at the dentist before a tooth extraction. You know what's coming.

[OddBeMe]

do we? we're all awaiting judgement there. Hitler could go to heaven and I could go to hell.

[Dargil]

G0d is not arbitrary.

[OddBeMe]

Actually i think he is. Every religionist I speak to has a different view of their god. It almost like god is arbitrary to every beleiver.

[Anonymous]

Does a father still love his children when they screw up?

Your bias against religion really is nauseating. Bigot.

[OddBeMe]

its not unconditional if there are conditions for his love.

[Greedier]

@OddBeMe You didn't get it... The 10 commandments are not conditions for his love. Such thing was never mentioned.

The 10 commandments are some little things we need to follow in order to have our salvation.
God loves a of us regardless tho, even though we're ungrateful sinners.

I agree with what @agagagagaga said. Even though we screw up, He still loves us.

[Greedier]

But I respect your opinion regardless.

[OddBeMe]

@Greedier commandments are optional?

[Greedier]

I'm not intirely sure, but even if we commit a sin we still can be "forgiven". As long as we truly regret and choose to do the right thing. As they say, He knows our heart.

The commandments seem to be something really good to follow (like, "thou shalt not kill", "thou shalt not covet..."), unless the person has other kind of religion ofc.

[888theGreat]

You are God's creation as twisted as you are , but God loves all his creation. I am sure he hates what you do.

[joeldalton]

Very weak effort. I thought anti-religious edginess was something people grew out of after middle school. Guess not.

[nawtee_me]

God loves you no matter what you do, it is the things you do that he might not like...

[Dinosaursandanime65]

He Willa still love you, he just doesn’t allow you demonically influenced things to enter Heaven

[AndrésC64]

Who created the demon in the first place? Who knew what the demon was going to do before he even created it? Who could have stopped the demon? Who could stop it even as we speak?

The answer to all of those is the invisible being that you worship.

[Dinosaursandanime65]

@AndrésC64 They kind of made themselves. He has never (intentionally) made anything evil. Come on, don’t let be delusional. When you fall off the horse, you get back up, and eat that horse. Let’s go eat that horse

[AndrésC64]

What do you mean they made themselves? So demons simply created themselves? Come on, don't be delusional. God created them EXACTLY as he wanted to and he KNEW EXACTLY what they were going to do BEFORE he created them EXACTLY how he wanted to.

[Dinosaursandanime65]

@AndrésC64 You make it sound as if you aren’t aware demons used to be Angels. It’s a story we’ve all heard, it as old as time (almost). A classic, and is the roots of all others inspired by it. I bet you don’t even know what BIBLE stands for

[AndrésC64]

I know that that's what the Bible says. But they were still created by your God. He still created them EXACTLY as he wanted. He still KNEW EXACTLY what they were going to do BEFORE he created them EXACTLY AS HE wanted. He COULD HAVE stopped them BEFORE he created them EXACTLY as he wanted and they did EXACTLY as he KNEW they were going to do. He COULD stop them even now.

[Dinosaursandanime65]

@AndrésC64 This is the Tournament of Bars

[Dinosaursandanime65]

That’s what a “god” in a religion would do.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

God doesn't love anyone unconditionally. Lie from hell.

[Jennz6]

God loves you.

[AndrésC64]

Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you.

-- George Carlin

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.” - Roger "Verbal" Kint in “The Usual Suspects”

[AndrésC64]

Well, seeing as how there's no evidence for the existence of any god or devil, there's no reason to believe in either.

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
“[T]he 1st Law of Thermodynamics [states] that you can never have an increase or decrease of energy/matter, which means that matter/energy can not be created from nothingness…when you open your eyes and see matter and experience energy, what you see is impossible according to the known Laws of science if, in fact, there is no God. Therefore, science itself says there must be a God.”

toptenproofs.com/.../scientific-evidence-of-god

[AndrésC64]

That's nice. It doesn't help your case for God in the slightest however. You see, scientists don't say that the universe "poofed" into existence out of nothing. That's what people like you say, so you are contradicting yourself.

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
“The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic processes, distinguishing three kinds of transfer of energy, as heat, as thermodynamic work, and as energy associated with matter transfer, and relating them to a function of a body's state, called internal energy.

The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of any isolated system (for which energy and matter transfer through the system boundary are not possible) is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but can be neither created nor destroyed.”

So Question for you:
“How did the matter & energy observed in our closed-system universe get created within itsekf if it ‘can be neither created nor destroyed’ ?”

en.m.wikipedia.org/.../First_law_of_thermodynamics

[AndrésC64]

The only honest answer is, we don't know. Additionally, we don't know that our universe is closed, because we don't know what happened "before" the Planck Era is prior to 10^-43 seconds after the Big Bang. That's a zero with 43 zeros after it (0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) seconds. Our math and science breaks down after that. But that doesn't mean that "God did it" is the right answer. You would need to provide evidence for that. You can't.

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
“we don't know”…ha…
What “great faith” you have—believing in something which you can’t prove 😉

[AndrésC64]

WTF are you babbling about? I just said that we don't know. How is that believing or having faith in anything?

[AndrésC64]

How do you figure that not making a claim takes faith?

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
You believe that there is an “escape clause”/“excuse” that will somehow not contradict the 1st Law of Thermodynamics (because “we don’t know” & “we don't know that our universe is closed”), yet you yourself require no proof before believing in this…

In order for ne to believe in what you believe in I “would need [you] to provide evidence for that. You can't.”

[AndrésC64]

What? No one is talking about an "escape clause"except for you. You are committing the logical fallacy known as Special Pleading" in one breath you say that matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed. And in the very next sentence you say that your God created everything out of nothing. Those are contradictory statements.

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
Incorrect. You are the illogical one.

Regardless of what you call “everything”—the totality of everything that exists: “Universe” or “Multiverse” or “Multiple Dimensions,” etc., matter & energy DO exist.

And in my “world view” an all-powerful infinite God—Who/which is beyond my understanding—created everything.

And you believe basically “everything just happened out of nothing.” And you say you “require evidence” in order to believe something. LMFA

“Occam's razor“:
God exists and He’s too big/powerful to understand and He created the universe/“Big Bang”…or whatever caused/led to that…etc, etc.

[AndrésC64]

@Gagname Wrong, again. And I don't care how you define "everything". Theist like you are the one claiming that your God that somehow "exists" outside of space (nowhere) and outside of time (never) created everything out of nothing. You are continuously contradicting yourself.

And as far as Occam's razor goes, which is the simpler solution? That the universe has simply always existed in one form or another? Or that there's an invisible, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being?

[AndrésC64]

@Gagname And by the way, if there were some way to with 100% certainty disprove every theory ever put forward by science (evolution, Big Bang, atomic, germ, plate tectonic.. ) that wouldn't get you one centimeter closer to proving that your God is real. You would need to provide evidence for that. You can't.

[Gagname]

@AndrésC64
“Everything Has a Cause [Except God]”

https://www.icr.org/causality

“In ordinary experience, one knows intuitively that nothing happens in isolation. Every event can be traced to one or more events which preceded it and that, in fact, caused it…

When we try to trace the event to its cause, or causes, we find that we never seem to reach a stopping point. The cause of the event was itself caused by a prior cause, which was affected by a previous cause, and so on back…

Eventually, we must face the question of the original cause—and uncaused First Cause…

The very basis of the highly reputed "scientific method" is this very law of causality...

This law inevitably leads to a choice between two alternatives: (1) an infinite chain of nonprimary causes (nothing ultimately responsible for all observable causes and effects); or (2) an uncaused primary Cause of all causes (the One absolute Cause that initiated everything).”

For me:
The very FIRST CAUSE of the chain of events that led to “The Big Bang” and has culminated in today’s observable universe of all matter & energy—is God…

A universe without a very FIRST CAUSE makes no logical sense.

We need to stop our discussion.

Take care.

[AndrésC64]

That's a Special Pleading argument, and it is fallacious. You don't get to play by different rules.

[TroyDT]

Who said God loves unconditionally?

[OddBeMe]

Did you not see his tweet?

[Fuentes]

He forgives many

[jimmy2]

He sure does