Do you believe the bible is a fictional book?

[welcomemen]

[Anpu23]

First I understand that the Bible is a collection of writings, some is allegorical, some is history, some is propaganda and some is outright fiction. You can't say its absolutely true, just as you can't say it's absolutely false.

[Anpu23]

Thanks for MHO

[welcomemen]

Welcome

[Astarlessnightsky]

Yes, completely made up.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I view it more in a sense of meaning... like, I don't literally believe in Adom and Eve, Noahs ark or miracles... parts of it I just have to take with a grain of salt. I'm looking for the message that's trying to be expressed. The moral of the story. Just like when I read Aesop's Fables. There is knowledge there to be found. I like that "oh shit, that makes sense" feeling when I just get the point of a story rather than actually believing the story is real. I mean... you watched The Matrix right. The deep part of that wasn't believing that we are actually living in a simulation and being used as batteries for the robots.

[Shelbina]

So do you believe that the gospel/salvation is true, or that heaven is tangible?

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina If you're asking me if I believe in the Jewish divine wind God Yahweh (Google says "divine warrior"), then I would believe Thor and Odin are real tangible things...

Heaven... Less than half of Jewish Americans believe in Heaven or Hell. Where did the concept come from? Well, I just mentioned a couple of Gods, and that faith believed in an afterlife.

I only go as far as to study religions because I find them interesting... their history, where they come from, the meanings... but you're not going to catch me dancing around yelling hallelujah. I'm not a faith or random belief driven person.

[Shelbina]

Gotta be honest that first little bit threw me for a loop, just because I'm so used to only talking about one God.
There are other 'gods' that people have mentioned or created, however they came to be, I don't know. But, just a side note, if there are more than one god, does that not take away their title of 'god'? Hear me out: the title 'god' refers to the omnipotence of a being. There cannot be more than one all-powerful being. It's just logic. I believe in one God, called Yahweh among many other names known both to Jews and Gentiles, and I believe that he created everything, knows everything, and is perfectly holy. That, in turn changes how I view life after death and faith itself.
Because you don't believe the same thing as me in that respect, you are going to have different opinions. Therefore, regarding the question "where did the concept of heaven come from", I would have to say that God himself came up with it. He gave the concept to the writers of the Bible to tell all Christians about it because Heaven and Hell are absolutely pivotal to the Gospel story. To me, it's all one connected ideology. For you, because you have studied so many religions and believe in none of them (I am assuming that here, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), there are many different concepts and ideologies.
LoL trust me I'm not a hallelujah yeller either, but I do feel very passionately about my relationship with God, because it has meant the world to me.
That probably didn't make a lick of sense sorry :)

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina They call Yahweh simply "God" because it's disrespectful to say his name, I guess. Kinda like me drawing Muhammed or anything alive in Islam (because drawing it, is like trying to create as Allah does). The term "God" just refers to any non-dying magic dude we haven't seen. 😂 I'm going to refer to this God as God though just so I don't have to keep checking my spelling

I would have to go back to why to when this became a single God. Remember there were a bunch of different tribes back then and they had their different Gods... The most important one was Ba'al (Master) which is just a honorific term for Hadad... Oh and Adonai (my master) is the honorific term for Yaweh.

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina Anyway, so these tribes had different Gods and whatnot (just like ancient Greek people) and they'd believe in all these Gods but their tribe would kind of have a special one picked out for their tribe. (again just like ancient Greek people and their city states). There were some miracles proving god was the better god and then there was a lot of wars. You can guess why God is now called the one true God... with me right? Because God was a jealous god, the worship of other gods (This is where the false idols come from) got banned. Ba'al was sort of merged... basically, a lot of people just agreed it was the same damn thing and they just traded names. Less bloodshed like that right?

If you go back even further you'll start to notice a bunch of these gods are from ancient Egyptian Gods. The name changes just like it did everywhere else. Odin for instance is also Wodan, Wutan, or Wuotan. By getting under one God, it was sort of a way to flick off the people that had them enslaved (the Egyptians) in my opinion. Their God and they owned this God, so to speak... I mean this God wins wars for them, he serves these people and outsider are servents to that God. Still with me? It's really fucking complicated shit.

I gotta admit was scared you'd go all bible thumper on me... I can't talk about this shit with them. History is just fake in their eyes because it doesn't line up with their beliefs. It's like destroying their house by removing the foundation.

[D_Bone_Steak]

To give specific names of these other Gods... You'll notice they became the names of demons after the New Testament. Pretty cool huh? They picked their favorite and then turned the other Gods into fucking demons 😂

[Shelbina]

Yeah so I think like the main difference between our opinions is that you equate all the 'gods' that have ever been worshipped and believe in none of them, and I only believe in one true God and the existence of bunch of other fake ones. I very much appreciate your research. Most people don't care about their opinion enough to research it.
As far as the Bible thumping, it amused me. I go to a school where the administrators are pretty much those people, but I call them legalists. I don't like what they do either. I'm glad I am different than them, because I get to have conversations with people instead of throwing shade at people and refusing to I don't know cooperate. At least that's my experience. Not that I don't like the people, I just very much disagree with their methods. And as far as the history thing goes, the Bible is actually very accurate in that respect. If anything, the history in the bible affirms my faith. I'll find some examples. :)
and that bit about the demons is fascinating thank you for that :)

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina Yeah I don't try to change people's beliefs. I feel like that's EXACTLY what a lot of Bible thumpers do when they start preaching scripture to people that don't even have the same religion or any religion at all. One of my best friends became a Buddist Monk and I found that religion interesting as hell too. It's when I start feeling that pressure where someone is basically saying "agree with me... just because I want you to agree" that it gets annoying.

You're right about the bible being pretty accurate, a lot of what I just said is in the bible. I can't remember the name of that king though (shotty memory). I wanna say Soloman or David but the war stuff and the miracles to prove which God is more true are around that area of the bible.

Where I got beef with the bible, is when I started asking... which bible. Christianity is a borrowed religion to begin with and it's made up of many different books. Those Romans picked and chose which ones they liked best. Basically why there is a huge gap from baby Jesus to adulthood. The books that had his childhood were cut out completely. He was a troublemaker... kinda like Loki. Then that Bible got chopped up some more (King James version) and a lot was lost in translation. That's why I liked listening to that preacher Dr. Gene Scott, he held a degree in Latin and went word for word showing what words were changed and what was left out. Look up exact translations from versus a few times and oh man... that's just the Latin to English... I haven't even looked into the Hebrew to Latin stuff yet. I went to school for accounting so I was around a lot of Jews. Business law was required as well. They would talk about their faith, like the whole no afterlife stuff, and I would go research it. Holy hell... was I surprised. Some groups have adopted the concept... I mean, Jehovah Witnesses added a bunch of stuff, or just look at the Protestants causing hell for the Catholics... big ole huge can of worms.

[D_Bone_Steak]

If you want a hilarious bible study may I suggest finding this series
https://youtu.be/3TDrtuGIHrs
Just like any other bible read verse by verse but way not as boring or filled with the hookie pookie stuff. I watched the Quran one they did too.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Never mind... it's pay to watch now. Ouch, when did they do that?

[Shelbina]

Yes and when somebody acts like that it absolutely ruins the point of trying to prove your point.
When people start talking about the accuracy of the Bible, it gets a little sketchy. People find so many holes in it, like the loss of meaning in translation, and the fact that it doesn't agree with today's 'science', and thousands of other things. The fact is, compared to other manuscripts, the Bible actually has a lot more original substance than other texts we trust fully. For example, the Odyssey and the Iliad were written thousands of years after it happened while The Bible was written by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eye witnesses if the events that they recorded. And yes there are fragments and parts that are questionably accurate, but do you not think that God would preserve what claims to be His inspired (which, that hebrew word actually means "God-breathed") word to us for future humans? And, if you take the Bible as truth in its entirety, you wouldn't add or take away from it. Does that make sense?

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina That makes sense. Aesop's Fables for instance have a lot of meaning, but it would be silly to get lost in or caught up with trying to prove a tortoise and a hair actually raced or that 3 pigs actually built houses. Perspective as well... They were describing things the best they could and there is us in current times trying to really understand it.

Like have you ever cracked open one of those illustrated Bibles and seen how they depict the land just as it looks today? That place was way greener back then. The great pyramids was waterfront property at the time. Science is just now catching up and acknowledging the Sahara was more like grasslands and even had rivers and lakes. As you mentioned the Iliad, I remembered that movie with Brad Pitt... I just don't think people would fight to keep a desert 😂

All that aside though, it is probably how I pull meaning out of it all without feeling the holy ghost or actually believing in miracles. I approach it the same way I approach Aristotle or Plato.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Like, let's take the Great Flood for instance. Ah... I think it was Aristotle that also had a flood story that lots of people just don't believe... Atlantis. I'm hella into science-type shows and now they're figuring out a comet hit right in the Mediterranean, a guess what time period. The tsunami was effing huge. North Africa and Italy got hit pretty badly. Basically, half of Italy got doused and there was major flooding in North Africa... now they're thinking Atlantis more in the western north part of Africa and it's basically under the sand, just like the sphinx was. If Italy got hit that hard, and north africa got hit that hard... reminds me of Noah's ark right? Maybe the literal 2 of each animals stuff is taken a bit too seriously. It was probably 2 goats, 2 pigs, and chickens and that was about it. You know, to make food... I mean sailors during the 1400's took goats with them for milk and to make dairy products (cows were too big) and if I research it more they probably took more than that.

The calm approach to anything is the way to go... I just find it all really intriguing to think about. I'm not going to say I know the exact truth of anything though. But we have little chunks of evidence. They all seem to match up in my mind.

[Shelbina]

I agree. many people take things out of context or simply forget that it was written in a different context. like it irks me so much when people depict Jesus as white like he was an Israelite, a middle eastern country, and you think he was white?
But anyhow, I think that if you read it in the context that it was written in, you get a whole lot more meaning than if you were to just try to extract the modern morals or something. like when you read about the customs of these people and then read the Bible it's like woah, really? you know? And I guess I'm coming at this like okay I believe that the Bible is inspired and it's how God is speaking to me, and you're coming at it like it's another ancient text. Which I respect that I appreciate that you are actually I don't know I guess just not ignoring it, like other people do. If you were to combine our opinions, that would be like, writing a book worthy

[D_Bone_Steak]

@Shelbina I saved a video for you about the possible tsunami stuff I was talking about that I ran across this morning.
https://youtu.be/ft0N03_XbBo
It's interesting stuff to think about.

I totally agree about the entire context needs more understanding. I know for me, understanding the religious structure that Jesus had to contend with at the time was a big one for me. The priests were basically making themselves royalty and it was very corrupt. They were under Roman rule as a sort of vassal state, but those priests basically ran the show. Beneath them, one could only get to God through them, and above them, the Romans relied on those priests to keep the Jewish people from having a riot... such was the priests' power. So a dude like Jesus saying you can get to God yourself without the priests was really threatening to them. Jesus was like a real rebel. It stirred up enough spite out of the priests that they used their basic power over the Romans to do their bidding. I guess this is like a historical socio-political view. They must've really hated Jesus. Those Romans tried to cut him a break by making the priests choose between a murderer/rapist (can't remember what he did exactly) and Jesus just a basic prophet... Like, logically they'd choose to get rid of the rapey/murder guy and not a street prophet, right? Nope! They wanted the guy challenging their singular divine right to God gone that bad.

Dang, I start talking a lot about these subjects. They're just so vast and deep.

[jshm2]

That would be rather daft, as it's a real book you can hold in your hand.

If ever you come across some fuckwit making the "fictional book" claim. Pick one up and throw it at their face and scream they have a very active imagination as something fictional has hurt them so badly.

[MementoMori777]

I made some good points on Agape opinion but she kept deleting them leaving me literally speechless, everytime I said something she would delete it leaving her with the last word smh

[Agape93]

Yeap. So much of it never actually happened. Like a worldwide flood in the bronze age which killed everything except birds and folks on a boat, the world being made in a week etc.

[MementoMori777]

They found Noah's ark and there's fossils of fish on mount everest

[Agape93]

No they didn't, that's just a conspiracy theory that you people keep pushing. Also, yeah, no shit. Plate tectonics, that area of rock used to be under water. When the rocks shift, it pushed up, making the mountain and taking the fossils up with it.

[MementoMori777]

Agree to disagree

[Agape93]

No, not with facts. You are demonstrably wrong here, you need to get out of your bubble and actually learn something. Even if it conflicts with your religion.

[MementoMori777]

It's called faith, which you clearly don't know the meaning of and what about the euphrates drying up, false too?

[MementoMori777]

You think people sat there collecting and picking up all the water with buckets to fake it? Lol

[Agape93]

Nope, it is drying up. It's a river, in a hot climate during a drought. It happens.

Actually I do, and I have 0 respect respect blind faith, especially when it conflicts with proven reality. You're welcome to believe in and adore your god, no problem, I do the same with my divine. But don't cling to things that are not true just because you want to remain ignorant.

[MementoMori777]

Bible never mentioned it being supernatural, seems more of a denial to me, it's why I said agree disagree.

[MementoMori777]

Your science will deceive you.

[Agape93]

Except it hasn't, it's already been proven correct. Your peoples conspiracy theories are wrong, end of story. This isn't a matter of agree to disagree, it's a matter of if you're correct or wrong, and yours is wrong.

[MementoMori777]

You keep deleting, I'll keep talking

[Agape93]

When I said end of story that means it's the end of the discussion. Until you accept reality, there is nothing further to discuss.

[purplepoppy]

The real question is why did 2 penguins travel thousands of miles and cross a desert to get on a boat

[Agape93]

BeCaUsE gOd SaId So

[HaveNoName]

Question to you is, by calling it "fiction" what are you trying to get at? (1) that Jesus and all prior prophets were fiction? or (2) that book itself is a figment of human imagination?

[purplepoppy]

Yes and no. I think it mixes real accounts with fantasy.

[weysally]

good answer

[PointTaken]

Like @purplepoppy said. They probably took real stories and did a little adding to it. It's like playing that game telephone. It's never the same as the original 20 people down the line.

[BarryLiverstone]

To a degree this is true as much of the Old Testament is oral history. However the gospel is comprised of multiple authors independently recording the same events so it’s got some juice.

[PointTaken]

@BarryLiverstone very true. Yet there I probably a little bit of difference of what really happened to what's in the gospel. Maybe not much, but some. It's like this, write down everything you did one day last week. How much will you keep going back to change it once you remember something?

[BarryLiverstone]

Of course it’s not word for word. But it’s good news regardless. Anyone who claims that all the words are literal is insane.

[PointTaken]

@BarryLiverstone lol. Yep!

[call_me_scar]

Nope all the evidence shows otherwise, theirs no evidence of a flood, humans are still evolving and the sun is billions of years older than the earth

[Masumgunahkar]

St. Louis wrote the Bible in the 16th century. The bible being read right now is not the real bible...

[Anonymous]

Not at all. The bible is a holly book that i alwase feel ashamed i never read it completly only some text and some pages from the beggining.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

No. I 100% believe it's the inspired word of God.

[Anonymous]

Well, the stories do seem quite far-fetched

[es20490446e]

For the most part, yes.

[BarryLiverstone]

It’s not a book

[welcomemen]

It looks like a book to me.

[BarryLiverstone]

Have you read it?

[welcomemen]

Some pages yes but not entirely

[BarryLiverstone]

Tbh much of it is boring if you read it like a novel. But reading it as a Bible study and conversing with others it’s powerful

[welcomemen]

I seen another user call it a holy book.
Also I’m assuming a lot of people including religious people haven’t read the book entirely or every single page

[BarryLiverstone]

Ya it’s known as a holy book but in fact it’s a collection of lots of books. Sure no one is perfect and many religious people haven’t read half of it. It’s full of love and understanding so if people project hate or are very judgmental it’s easy to spot

[welcomemen]

Okay thanks for your response

[BarryLiverstone]

You are welcome, grateful for your curiosity