
Do you need religion to have morals and ethics?


Absolutely not. In fact, some religious rules are insane.
I don't need a handbook to know right from wrong.
The only four "Commandments" in the Bible that are universal are:
- Don't murder.
- Don't steal.
- Don't lie.
- Don't covet.
Duh. Mere common sense tells you that those things are wrong. Anyone who does them knows that they are doing something bad.
Another aphorism that makes sense is "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". But that policy doesn't just come from the Bible. It has been said in different words by all religions. And it could have been said by anyone. It's not necessarily religious.
You don't need the threat of eternal damnation to hold you back from harming others.
Most people possess something called empathy.
And a lot of people who do not subscribe to the mythology of religion have great love, awe, gratitude and reverence for all creation, including living creatures and people. Therefore, they don't cause unnecessary destruction, harm or suffering to anything or anyone.
As an agnostic, I hate hurting anything.
The REAL Ten Commandments! ↗
If everyone has empathy, and that prevents you from hurting people, why is there so much violence in the world?
@Ladsin2. I said "most" people have empathy. Maybe I should have said "the majority" instead of "most". Empathy is a natural human emotion. It's natural with many animals, too.
Religious people are no different than others when it comes to violence. Look at the Crusades, the Inquisition, Cromwellians, Anglicanism, Puritanism, European imperialism, Israeli theft and blood lust, radical Hindus and Muslims, the KKK.
What about mega-church ministers who prey on gullible believers to get incredibly rich?
There is no end to the number of crimes committed by Christians or in the name of God. People have to dehumanize others in order to harm them. And religion often justifies the dehumanization of those who don't have the same beliefs. "You're a heretic." "You're a pagan." "You're going to Hell."
Religion doesn't stop people from causing death and misery.
I didn't say anything about the morality of religions or religious people, I'm just trying to understand your perspective. As I understand it there's not really a significant positive or negative correlation between empathy and violence.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” - CS Lewis
"Mercy (empathy) to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent" Adam Smith
What do you think about these two quotes? They both resonate pretty strongly with me.
Your statement is that empathy prevents cruelty. Both of my statements imply that empathy (misapplied) is cruelty. How are those two statements not in contrast?
I don't care about religious folks, I'm just trying to pick your brain about your thoughts on morality, particularly in regards to empathy as that was your comment.
Yes you do, even atheist have their morals influenced by religion (the religion of the country they grew up in even if they do not believe into it) because religion become part of culture and it mix together.
All Atheist from around the world do not have the same morals / ethic on what's ok and what's not, Christian are against prostitution and women getting into porn, dressing revealing, etc... even atheist in my country are against such things they consider those stuff degrading for a woman (porn, sexy pictures, etc...) while in Japan all of those are consider ok and encouraged (no mean comment to women being gravure idol, they search for porn star in the street asking very young women to star in their porn movie and nobody think is bad, in France they would be considered pimp and not ok), etc... The ways women are portrayed in Japanese media are seen as a shame, rude endnote ok this is because we have Catholic culture in France and morals / ethic the religion influence what's good and bad even for atheist so yes you need religion o shape your morals / ethic.
Inuit used to share their women with stranger that they encounter and were in bad shape, they gave them food, a house for a day and shared their women in the stranger bed for a night this is considered cheating and wrong any person doing this in France would be considered as having no morals (as any person cheating on their spouse with a prostitute but this same things is totally ok in Japan because is it seen as purchasing a service and not cheating) the religion shape all of our life / culture even for the non believer.
I'm surprised you know about the Inuit thing. My dad told me about it, but you will find almost nothing online. I think they do it with their daughters too. I read there's a tribe in Kamchatka that also does the wife thing. And I also read Inuits teach their children how to have sex by letting them watch
@KostasKouvalis Really? I know about it since I'm a child, I was a fan of watching documentary about every countries of the worlds.
They do it with every women there's in in their "clan".
They're depraved people especially when killing baby seal, they disgust me, they do since I learnt about them killing baby seal and laughing while doing it, I'm still amazed by how the journalist wasn't throwing up when he saw them doing it while laughing and mocking the dead baby seal, they're monster. They did it for pleasure since today they do not need to do such things.
And I don't know if you know but in Maghreb men used to be forced to marry the wife of their brother if this one died so to be sure the women wasn't a single window struggling to raise alone her children (which is kind of why they're able to marry multiple women). The rich could have many wife / harem for pleasure but the poor one had to marry his brother widow and was expected to support all their need (window and her children).
I know a lot of stuff like that mainly useless caused I love learning about the worlds but I'm not so much into travelling because the health / hygiene in most country of the worlds isn't good except in rich countries that are expensive.
Yeah, I was watching a documentary when I was in Poland, and they talked about how when they get old, they paddle out into the sea and let a whale tip them over, so they don't have to be a burden to young people. There is a satirical cartoon here that talked about the baby seal stuff, but I've never seen actual footage of it. But I've seen footage of "The Grind". I am not surprised, because my mom said in Poland they showed this kind of stuff. They even showed hari-kari and didn't censor it.
That reminds me some footage I saw of Mexicans watching an illegal car race and laughing at people crashing.
Honestly, very backwards people.
I heard something about that.
I see. That's very true. When I was in Panama, people were throwing trash out their window directly onto the street.
Me and my mom also prefer civilized first world countries honestly.
I hate when people say, "people everywhere are the same." That is such bullshit!
By the way, I watched that Maurice movie. The situations were funny but I missed a lot, because it wasn't subtitled. That's cool that part of it was filmed in Venice. There is a play version too and I thought that was the movie at first. My favorite part was when the guy tried to rape him😂
I couldn't find the other movie you were talking about
@236color And you're pretty naive just look at the majority of the world how a lot of people believe rape is justified for some reasons (like shorts skirt or if she's his girlfriend, etc...) even if Europe a big percentage of people believe rape can be justified by some reasons. So no people have yet to figure out rape is wrong...
Same with killing how people believe it justified to kill someone if they have made a comment about them, a cyclist have made a comment to a car driver that he was driving in a bike line and the dude literally run over him 3 times...
Stealing is also justified in many part of the world if the person go around walking with a gold bracelet or necklace majority of poor people believe is it justified to steal it from him cause eh's rich so no big deal and that he shouldn't flaunt around his wealth.
Or how people believe is it justified to slap and kick down people is justified if they eat in a train or are being loud...
All those example exist in majority of the worlds so no majority if human are not good at all and without religion it would be ways ways worse.
No, I'm an atheist but I'm a better Christian than most church goers. I definitely have better morals and ethics than most of the religious people on this site.
No I don't believe so I believe you have to know who you are and who you want to be it's a choice to have morals values and ethics
Look at bad people and the things that they do the reason why they do those bad things is because it's easy they're lazy and it's easier to do those things because it's hard it's very hard to be the person that you want to become because you have to practice it until you become it you have to believe in it with all your heart until you become it and that's just with everything in life religion doesn't hurt anything or make it better or faster for you to believe in these things but it's a choice we all make on our own on who we truly want to be and when you have morals values and ethics and you live that lifestyle things are just better if you're lazy non caring used people and you have no morals values or ethics life sucks
Opinion
28Opinion
Obviously need religion!
First morals can't be subjective or else everone has different morality.
One says, ' steal from rich is okay" another says "steal clothes is necessity" despite shoplifting.
Worse look at the world in england as christian lessened crime and rape increased.
People say "nobody will punish me" what motivation does an atheist have, to not shoplift. They deny god n nobody can tell them what is immoral. Then we get what we see on the news n things get worse each year.
Strictly speaking, no. But then again, something else important to consider is that the object of religion is not simply the teaching or practicing of good moral values, though that is indispensable. The primary end of religion is about man's relation to God.
My thinking is that while it's good that a Christian and an atheist might both agree that you shouldn't murder, steal, or cheat on your spouse, there has to be a higher reason for doing good things and avoiding bad ones. A higher authority has to confirm, has to give weight to these things. Otherwise, the risk (at the very least) of morality being subject to personal feelings and whims, cultural norms, and votes increases. Or in other words, religion brings moral behavior to a sense of fulfillment.
I would almost say the opposite is true. To truly think on behalf of others' plight you need to shed the idea that there is an absolute moral authority who will cover the costs of whatever terrible thing you might do to others.
It's easy for a religious person to justify murder because they believe this life is fleeting anyway. And if anything they are saving anyone they kill from damnation by helping them die for the right god. But if you don't believe any of that it gets really hard to justify even wishing harm on someone.
I don't think religion is necessary for a moral compass to function. However, a person has to be exposed to someone with morals to learn. Popes of long ago wanted to know what language Adam and Eve spoke so the took a male and female child an allowed them to grow uncontaminated by social input. The result was not encouraging. They developed no language and no socialization skills. Nuff Said. But even those beyond the influence of organized religion develop some sense of right and wrong.
Obviously.
That's as daft as asking if you need to have "chocolate" to have a chocolate cake".
Anything else can only be "chocolate flavoured" or an imitation, but not "chocolate" regardless of how it is spun.
Ethics is a form of imitation of religious morals. But it's more towards consensus and culture, than religion.
I’m a Christian and I have Jesus not just to say I’m perfect and have it all together! I’m a Christian and I have Jesus because I admit I’m a sinner and I need a Savior! I am a sinner and a full mess, but Jesus is my Savior and I want Him in control of my life!
obviously not. like you don't even need to think 2 seconds about it. here, i'll quickly make a moral: drinking beer is good. drinking water is bad. that's it. that's by definition a moral. cause having morals just means having a concept of right and wrong or good and bad. doesn't have to be a good one or one people agree with. and if i take that moral and let it guide my actions, i got ethics. it's that simple.
No it's an absurd thing to think.
The morals within religion were already morals pre-existing in some shape or form before that religion existed.
Though of course if you think the religion came before humans and the humans didn't just create that religion then you would be right but your right in your own pattern of logic than reality of what happened.
Maybe up to a certain point. For instance, I'd be far more likely to commit a crime than a religious person because I do not believe in God or heaven or hell. I believe that all consequences of that action will take place on earth. But this doesn't mean that I'd want to commit a crime. I'd just be more likely to than someone who feels that they'll be perpetually on fire for infinity & beyond for stealing a pack of wrigleys doublemint gum.
No, recognize the Ten Commandments but I do not consider myself very religious. I am more a Code of the West guy.
Well I most certainly do not require, need, want or ever desire to have any of that complete and utter fucking Bollox to determine anything in my life.
No, but you need a higher power to explain where ethics and the idea of right and wrong come from. There's no morality without a moral-giver. If morality isn't up to a higher standard/power, then it's subjective and meaningless because anyone of us can dictate right and wrong and no one is more right than the other. Which as any sane person can conclude, means chaos.
Precisely what i was gonna say but you said it better
No. You can still have morals and ethics without religion, and I'd even argue those morals and ethics are more sincere since they aren't coming from a threat of eternal damnation.
No. I am Pagan, which for me, is a way of living, not a religion. It is a system of celebration rather than veneration.
I hope in my way of living that I have decent morals and ethics. Others can judge whether that is a reality.
@alice55 Not for my family. We do not invoke Gods or Goddesses. We do not call quarters. We do celebrate the wheel of the year. We also partake of cakes and ale, when with others, as a symbol of sharing with them.
We are also Taoists, as we will always help others in GENIINE need without seeking thanks or reward.
Most ethical and moral systems are non-religiously based. Consequentialism, most Deontological ethics, and Virtue ethicists aren't dependent on a religion. The only one I can think of would be the divine command theorists.
No and it’s sort of scary that people need a book written thousands of years ago, just to work out right from wrong.
No, however having guidelines set up for you DOES make things easier for youth to learn and craft a solid sense of ethics.
No. Its a common misconception that laws, ethics, and morals come from religion. It in fact does not. These things predate written language.
No, too many got killed in the name of religion to believe otherwise.
What if they killed bad guys?
Would have been a nice what if :(
Not at all. I know plenty of people who are not religious that have more ethics and morals than most religious people
Not necessarily. God gave us a conscience to know right from wrong unless a person is a psychopath.
Now, becoming a christian and following God's commandments in the Bible strengths your morals.
No. Just don't do to others you don't want others do to you.
Nope. I'm a sensible person. Morals and ethics automatically come with that...
There are no morals and ethics without a belief system National Socialism/The Democrat Party is a belief system, all evil.
Yeah! Society changes so the morality. Religion gives us morality which objective.
I'm not religious and I'm am highly ethical. Almost no atheists are incarcerated in the US.
not really... I'm agnostic myself
common sense and basic decency can go a long way...
Common sense and decency do not mean the same things everywhere the world though everything is shaped by religion... I assume you would think that is it cheating to go see a prostitute if you're married right? This come from the Christian religion because for Japanese (who have a culture of Shintoisme even if they're all atheist nowadays) paying a prostitute to have sex is not considered cheating so common sense and decency literally do not exist and become an utter nonsense for countries that do not share the same religion as you...
@alice55 well, yes... however Japanese culture is heavily influenced by religion, so that's not what I meant at all, I see your point though... on perspective and how different they can be, yes
but I was going deeper into it... and the wiring that most of us have, which is the instinct of preservation and the nature of us being social creatures, and mostly into getting along, which yeah, again... it might not be as common either
but still... whatever it is considered wrong and bad in either society, most people understand that it is bad to do bad to others... right?
People don't care about getting along with each other, they only care about their selfish need just as children, they need region / laws to shape what's ok and what's not. Let people alone without rule and nobody will ever have the same view on what's ok and what's not.
No, I do not agree, what's right and what's wrong depend on society / religion / culture, in Muslim culture is it seen as a good things to say to people when they do things wrong (for example someone dressed revealing would have many people tell her she's on a wrong path and she should change her ways, this do not happen in Japanese culture because is it seen as rude, in Muslim culture is it seen as helping them going on the right path, religion shape what's ok and what's not, what's rude an what's not, everything is different from country to country from religion to religion, what I see as ok American would see as rude, I do not believe for one second there's a lot universal ok and bad. In France is it seen as ok to cyberbully a criminal for the youth generation, even pushing them to suicide is ok to them but is it consider as not ok for the older generation, etc... view, opinion on what's ok and what's not is not universal and are shaped by law, culture and religion there's no universal like some people seem to believe.
For another example going outside wearing sweat without make up for a woman is seen as an insult and rude for Japanese (and going to work without heels would make you fired for indecency) in France it's the reverse too many make up and you would be considered a clown and asked to take it off.
" most people understand that it is bad to do bad to others... right"
So you do not believe is hurting to one to cheat on them with a prostitute? This is cheating no matter what they think swell as their work culture of only working drinking with their boss and coming home at 3 am drunk after spending all night at a hostess bar how is not considered as bad to you? This is bad and a lot of Japanese dislike it but are forced to do it.
People do not believe in such good and bad things, just as men lying to women to get sex then dumping them... so no people do not understand is it wrong to do bad to others because in their culture is seen as ok
I'm talking about the fact you think people are naturally good and do not need religion to shape their view on what's ok and what's not.
And you do not need to live in every country of the worlds to learn about it there's so many ways to learn about every culture of the worlds and see that actually yes the religion shape the view on what's ok and what's not.
@alice55 I never said people are naturally good, no...
and also... religion has many times controlled and shaped societies into doing wrong, and very wrong...
ever heard of the "holy land" and their never ending wars? well, guess what... regions in the world which are way less religious have not had as much ongoing conflict as that little peace of land...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIdCsMufIY
Holy land is a propaganda this did not happen this ways, Christian were massacred during their trip to the holy land so they had to send Knight to protect them because of muslim babaric ways of massacring Christian.
The whole war wouldn't have started if the Muslim were decent person.
@alice55 there it is... there's that religious take which is exactly what's shown in the video
both religious sides pointing at each other " if they were decent people... "
here's one more for ya...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI
Joke on you I'm French and do not understand spoken English... I'm good at writing and reading but cannot pronounce the worlds neither understand it when spoken...
And you're just racist agains't religion notice how you're obsessed with religion and do not care at all about what I just said about people destroying and invading everybody countries without any religious motive?
By creating a code of morality and ethics, you essentially create a religion.
I’m religious and religion is what i follow for my morals. However, i believe people can have ethics regardless of their religion.
No, I'm not religious at all, but I'm a very moral and ethical person.
No, just being a good person will give you that
Who gets to decide what is considered a "good" person? If each person, then different and meaningless.
A murderer can say i am moral by my morality.
Absolutely Not
Yep.
Obviously not
But then you end up harming a fetus... and harming is bad.
Yes, I want religion, morales and ethics
Nope
not really
Nope
Nope
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