I think a lot of the stuff you mentioned is pretty accurate, and just common sense. It's just people that want to play the victim that use the word "feminist" instead of what they really are which are just people that want to lean on their gender for an excuse to fail or step on people. But those points are just apical to those radical butch people who don't want to be seen as butch.
That being said, some of the stuff You mentioned is just your superiority showing its ugly head.
"That being said, some of the stuff You mentioned is just your superiority showing its ugly head." What? Superiority? Where on earth was I displaying my superiority on this take?
Yeah... You said out right that women aren't equal... Maybe you meant to say they aren't the same as men? if that's the case you should rephrase bc it comes across as you feel women aren't equal in value
Why would you assume that? I said women can't do somethings men can do, not that they don't have the right to do so. I never meant it as women aren't equal to men. I would rephrase it but myTakes can't be edited.
Well just the phrasing is why I assumed. to me if two things aren't equal, one is less valuable than the other. But obviously you didn't mean it that way so it just turns out I just don't agree with some of your points lol
"In my opinion you come across as bitter" I have no choice, I don't think you can list those points without sounding like one but overall I agree with you, I could have written it better.
And no I'm not a dude but I can understand why you would think that :P Men aren't superior, neither are women. I felt I had to write this because very few people care about the problems men face.
I hope that as some point society will that feminism is simply an alternative word for misandry. It's a man-hating movement. Time to kill it. If misandry is okay then so is misogyny. If virgin-shaming is okay then so should slut-shaming. If skinny-shaming is okay then so should fat-shaming. If hitting men is okay then so should hitting women. If forcing a man to pay alimony for a child that's not even his or did not want, then women should pay alimony for a baby that he wants to keep. I can go on and on.
Women have enough rights as it is, i just had this talk with my older sister and she agrees. Its great women are being treated equal, but that doesn't mean if a Man is more of a hardworker and wants a promotion, he shouldn't get turned down simply for being a male because companies like to please the social norm and instead may promote a female insteaed. I've read this type of story from guys countless times over the net, most feminists not just want to be equal with men but have more power then them. Which is silly, everyone should be the same :)
What kind of downvotes do you want? Want pink downvotes? Agree with this take, Want blue downvotes? Disagree with this take.
Anyways, I am disappointed by you nuts, you came up with very few points. What about the fact that feminists only act out of self interest, only acts equality on those grounds which would benefit them, eg - no feminist would ask for clubbing of sports teams into one unisex team, and players get the position on the basis of skill. Also , women tend to get shorter jail time than men. Double standard in public opinions like when woman beats a man in public no one gives a fuck, when man beats woman, hoot hoot.
This is highly inaccurate. I'm sorry that you may have friends like this, but NONE of my female friends who are all feminists believe this, including me. It's sad that you want women to look bad. A feminist demands equal rights and in doing so she asserts her power and her voice which I find beautiful. A feminist also loves men and what they offer just as they love women. There are so many statistics proving that we live in a society that does not treat women equally to men. It's cool that you want to look cool for the guys though. I bet the guys think it's totally hot, girl.
This mytake already pointed out that not all feminists are like this so you bringing up your feminist friends and saying how they think differently isn't relevant.
You in united states or in afghanistan under taliban regime? women got equal rights on the western societies long ago, but the radfems con artists keep to insistent that it's not so.
But her using the term feminist which is defined as the equality between the genders and then using examples that do not actually embody the actual definition just goes to show that she does not understand the actual term. Some of the examples she used are people that are sexist. THEY ARE NOT FEMINISTS. That's a completely different argument, yet being a feminist is given a bad name because they just go by extreme stereotypes. She could have addressed this to sexist man-eating females... but that is not what feminism is about so let's stop acting like those are interchangeable.
And I understand that other countries do not have the same freedoms as others. I know that I should be thankful for where I come from... but isn't that a weak argument? Should I have anyone making me feel bad about feeling like I should be equal in this country because in other countries they don't have it as good as I do? The reality is that I do live in a westernized country and therefore THERE SHOULD BE EQUALITY. And I'm not going to have any person change my mind about that.
Why you need equality if it's already equality? feminists like to say that there is not equality yet, even after woman get the right to vote to and go to work, and many others things already, just so they can continue to preach against man, and keeping the feminist movement alive by doing so, many feminists need sexism like air. Why is misandrists are not feminists? it's almost like saying that al qaeda is not muslim, radfems are extremists but they are still a feminists as well, and radfems make a considerably part of modern feminism, and that's lowers the reputation of feminism as whole.
"but NONE of my female friends who are all feminists believe this, including me. " Not everyone lives in your little world darling.
" It's sad that you want women to look bad." Yet it's perfectly fine for men to look bad. Well that's not hypocritical at all.
"A feminist demands equal rights and in doing so she asserts her power and her voice which I find beautiful." And in demanding some of those rights, they end up misusing them.
"A feminist also loves men and what they offer just as they love women. " Generalization 101
"There are so many statistics proving that we live in a society that does not treat women equally to men." Exactly yet there are little to none for men, despite my take already showing how disadvantaged men are. Where are the statistics for these? I guess men being treated like shit isn't as important as women being treated like one.
"It's cool that you want to look cool for the guys though. I bet the guys think it's totally hot, girl." I don't want to look cool or hip, I'm simply being a rational minded human being, showing the world doesn't revolve around a single gender.
I'm still looking, decades now, for one of you "feminists" ( I use parentheses because apparently none of you are REAL feminists depending on which Sect is asked) who won't cowardly fall back on the no true Scotsman fallacy when your ACTIONS are judged for what they are. Do you realize how sad it is that the only consistent defense to the hateful people within your group is a fallacy?
A few of those you mentioned I see are true with regards to some hardcore feminists, but honestly, some of your points I've only ever seen people complain about here on Gag but have never witnessed feminists arguing it on here or in real life. Like, for example, I've never heard anyone say "Women get full child custody by default, fathers desperately fight for their children," or "Female sexuality should be open and embraced. Male sexuality is violent and should be contained" or "A drunk woman consenting to sex was raped by the man. A drunk man consenting to sex had poor control over himself and raped the woman." Do feminists blatantly argue like that or are people just assuming implications?
The national organization for women actively pushed for women being the primary care giver and even had it on their website until a few years ago where they realized how hypocritical it was and removed it (they still advocated it they simply didn't blatently state it on their website). We have laws that state that if a woman is drunk then if a man has sex with her its rape on most college campuses. The "yes means yes" campaign in california stated that men had to ask for verbal consent to even touch a woman or kiss her otherwise its rape/sexual harrasment. Then the "real men don't rape" campaign (because men are so ignorant that they can't graps the concept that rape is bad with out people telling them apparently) www.google.com/search So, yes feminist say these things regularly and push for laws to enforce these ideas. Its not an assumption, its not something that feminist imply, they are actively involved.
@hellionthesage Your examples don't sound like what the original post implies which is distinctly anti-male. That's what I'm talking about... what I haven't seen is such blatant anti-male. The rest I have seen. "Real men don't rape" is a generalization phrase much like lumping all feminists or all females or all males into one category and making a statement about them, no?
@SilenRose Same. My old roommate was a feminist, and though we didn't agree on some things... she never went on anti-male rants but rather focused on female issues. It just feels like instead of being pro-male about certain issues where males have a disadvantage and fighting for those rights, men on this site seem to bring up the male issues solely as a retaliation to feminism and turn it into a gender war. It makes no sense to me.
Well done love the take. Feminazis want the rights but not the responsibilities that come with it. If they were true feminists they would fight for men's rights as well.
@VampireEmpress MRAs don't have to fight for women's rights because women have already gained equality in the West. It's all about merit for them now. Men's issues are often overlooked because we are expected to be stoic and let the women complain. Feminists should fight for men's rights since men face the same problems women once did and do to this day. Domestic violence, being screwed over by divorce, no aid for rape victims and e. t. c.
But then if they did fight for men's rights as well they would be egalitarian not feminist. Since feminism focuses only on women being made equal to men. Emma Watson is one of the few advocates for feminism that understands that men's issues exist as well.
Feminazis pollute what was a good idea in order to create an anti-male matriarchal state of social justice warriors. If they truly cared about women's rights they would be in Saudi Arabia right now fighting for them and not complaining about manspreading or some other bs.
but the bottom line is that the mras want to be acknowledged w/o having to do the same, which is extremely unfair.
and men's rights? I said on my main opinion that men are the majority of the victims of most crimes, which are mostly committed byy men... so what do you think of that?
if mras really cared about men instead of just trashing feminsim, they'd talk about how men are mostly the ones victimizing other men from violent attacks and crimes right?
@VampireEmpress Facepalm. They don't have to support feminism because it's already won in the West. It's like joining a war when the enemy has already been vanquished, what good would it do?
Women commit crimes as well but they are not taken as seriously. Women often get lower prison sentences than men for the same crime. MRAs goal is to end this type of preferential treatment. I'm not talking about male on male crime since in that case a fair punishment is usually giving to the perpetrator.
MRAs are fighting for true equality between men and women. You on the other hand seem to be focused on men harming other men and not seeing that women have it better because of reverse discrimination.
then it depends on how you define winning. did you know that only 2% of rape cases end in convictions? because the victims dismiss the cases or aren't taken seriously? and before you mention that survey about men getting raped, you should remember that its just that, a survey where people could choose to say whatever they want or give random responses. and that same survey in 2011 said that men were the majority of rapists fyi.
you can scroll down and see my last reply to hellionthestage for everything else you mentioned. I don't believe men are treated that way because of feminism but because of profit.
@VampireEmpress Usually a rape claim is enough. There was a case of a football player that went to jail and lost a lot of money because a woman made a false rape claim. When she admitted she lied and he was released, she wasn't punished.
This system doesn't exist out of profit but because society is structured in a way where men are supposed to be strong and women are allowed to be weak or strong.
If a man cries he is seen as weak, while a woman would be comforted.
no, like the usual the victim dismissed her claim. in this case, it sounds like she was blaming a famous guy so he could have spent thousands and thousands on the best lawyers and attorneys... what else could she have done but dismiss it?
did you know that lots of people say Elvis used to sleep with 15-16 year old girls? no one did anything about that or cared, since he was so famous.
and the system always tries to get as much profit as possible for itself lol that's why it's there.
I love you for making this post. Some people really have no idea how accurate this is. Some good friends of mine are these "nutty" feminists and it's mildly upsetting that I have been flamed for pointing out these double standards to them, once upon a time. I always find myself having to bite my tongue to avoid "male vs female" debates at some point of the day, though. I do hope someone posts this on Tumblr, though. The armchair extremism of modern feminism has spread through there like a wildfire.
"• "All women should have the right to believe what they want" . Anti-feminist or non-feminist women are labeled as stupid with internalized misogyny."
So true! I've been called names on here before, simply because I'm not a feminist. And of course they pulled out the "internalized misogyny" card immediately.
I'm not a feminist since I have become Christian and believe that Christian beliefs are better for both men and women
When I was a feminist, my concern with the issue of women being scantily clad in media isn't that it happens to women more often (women are just hotter than men) but that often women are forced to do it, or otherwise not allowed representation in media (and women only have 25% of speaking roles in media to begin with). There are many women who want representation in media but aren't able to, because they're not comfortable stripping down This is also why a woman freely choosing to wear revealing clothes is different from women in media.
Many suffragettes such as emmeline pankhurst did advocate that women be conscripted. Other suffragists fought against conscription for both men and women; Quakers, who are anti-war, made up a high percentage of suffragists.
This is why I dislike myTakes like this. Even though you are listing your personal views on it and even gave a disclaimer: "I wouldn't directly blame feminists for all of these, but I would say they're a side effect."
When you post something like this you will have the misogynist flocking here and using your own words against true feminist and not the corrupt ones (such as those who don't believe in equal pay). Also the women you describe who think like that sound more like misandrist then feminist. I also believe men and women will never truly be equal because some things men do better then woman and some things women do better then men but it can be pretty close.
All of these where valid points and in my experience and according to (nearly) all feminist writers/educators/organizations these are the things they advocate. That is quite provable. Further more you criticising her for stating these discrepencies shows that you really only care about the image of feminist not true equality. True feminist are exactly as she described, you prove it by criticising her pointing out the discrepencies. You cannot name a single thing feminist did for men becaues they have not done any thing for men. They have consistently advocated for women having the rights that men have but none of the responsiblity (while maintaining all the privledges of being a woman on top of that.).
How was anything I said misogynist? At no point did I exibit any behavior or make any statement that suggests I hate women, unless you believe that to attack the feminist ideology is the same as attacking all women which would be an absurd thing to think. The irony is that by claiming I am misogynist you are attempting to shame me into not arguing, the ironic part in this is that this tactic only works if our society as a whole (and I personally) find the idea of hating women revolting. Ie you are using societies desire and prefferential treatment of women to prevent the questioning of this prefferential treatment.
@hellionthesage You're free to express your opinion but you should be prepared to be called out on your misogynistic views. You don't actually have to say "I hate women" to make it obvious. <3
@hellionthesage I can say that that is a lie. Many feminists advocate for men on the lines of sexual abuse and mistreatment. The truth is that being a woman in this country is automatically a disadvantage. We are paid less, socially conditioned to believe that we need to adjust our bodies for men's approval, and are not given the same ranking in many occupations statistically based off gender. Just like with Black Lives Matter, they are not saying that just black lives matter, but if a certain group is mistreated, it is important that their voice is heard.
"Even though you are listing your personal views on it and even gave a disclaimer: "I wouldn't directly blame feminists for all of these, but I would say they're a side effect.""
That isn't a disclaimer, you took that sentence the wrong way. The things I don't directly blame on feminists - are the side effects. The things I blamed them for - are 100% their fault.
"true feminist" ? Who are you to say who's a feminist and who's not. The ideals don't make a feminist, the feminists make the ideals.
"Also the women you describe who think like that sound more like misandrist then feminist." I'm not describing any "women", I'm listing the effects of feminism, using women as a medium. Big difference.
@smalls1995 No, it is not a lie. If you can prove it then do. However feminist had the definition of rape altered to "a penatrative act". Notice how this excludes women? Only men have the "equipment" to penetrate. So the CDC research team found that only 1% of men where ever raped. Yet if you read deeper you notice a statistic under sexual assualt that is labeled "forced to penetrate" ie female on male rape. That number is almost identicle to the female rape. Odd isn't it? Especially since Christine Lindquist a socioligist and feminist (responsible for the false 1 in 5 statistic) was apart of this team. Thats feminist harming men ignoring male victims. The National Organization for Women actively pushed for mothers to be viewed as the primary caregiveres and thus get full custody cutting fathers out of their childrens lives. Feminists backed the duluth model of domestic violence that states that men are the primary aggressor and women the primary victims.
@smalls1995 This is rather ironic since all data shows that men are more likely to experience domestic violence at the hands of women rather then the other way around. 70% of all non-reciprocal violence between intimate partners is perpetrated by the woman. 50% of reciprocal violence is perpetrated by the woman. While a violent relationship was not an indicator for violence in previous or future relationships for men it was an indicator of violence for the females ie the violence was instigated by the woman. When it comes to emotional/verbal abuse men experience it at a significantly greater percentage then women do. Yet feminist pushed for the idea that it was only men who where abusive. Amy schumer spoke at a feminist event and regailed them with a story of how she raped a man, how she whent in and had sex with him while he was blacked out (she also mocked him for his lack of performance) she was applauded. Feminists do not care about equality.
I further went on to explain why I dislike myTakes like this: "When you post something like this you will have the misogynist flocking here and using your own words against true feminist and not the corrupt ones". However, you said I was wrong. I didn't want to believe you were blaming all feminist but you said I was wrong. So...
"First of all I'd like to say I'm not a feminist (it has mostly to do with my belief that women aren't equal to men in all regards, that there are certain things only men can do.) My beliefs are however not relevant to this myTake. It's written solely to list some of the double standards that have arisen or/and have been influenced by feminism."
First paragraph proves how clueless you are & why no one should even take this myTake serious lol! You really need to brush up on your history & what feminism is.
I'm guessing you're one of those people who take textbook definitions literally to heart as the basis of your foundations, well good for you. If you are in fact so knowledgeable about feminism then please take the time to explain what exactly makes me so clueless on the subject, instead of nonchalantly bashing my take without even presenting a reasonable argument. Simply stating dur dur "This paragraph shows how clueless you are... lol!" only makes you seem unintelligible.
Funny how you same people will point to Webster's as the argument for "what feminism means" yet you need to change the meaning of words like "rape", "racism", and so on and so on to suit your needs. You're the same people who say "hur dur look at the idiots who don't believe in science" when talking about climate change yet to you "biology doesn't mean anything, gender is a construct" etc etc. Simply adorable.
Feminist are sexist, these are feminist, they have fought for these things, advocate for these things and encourage it. Its in their writings and in their teachings. Its the equivalent of saying that "real" christians don't believe in jesus christ, its literally integral to their entire ideology.
@hellionthesage flip the Christianity around and you got it right.
Just like many Christians like to call themselves that, yet only use it as a means to pout and cry and take freedoms from others, many will call themselves feminist yet only do that.
There are tons of groups that have a bunch of cunts that take the word without the teachings solely for their own benefit. Feminism isn't special in that regard and thus, like all those other philosophies, the basic ideas shouldn't be forgotten because a few bad people want to manipulate it for self gain.
Feminism by definition is not about equality its a female centric ideology. You cannot be about equality while actively fighting it as feminist do. My statement still stands. If the entire body of work the feminist writers and academics are actively attacking men and actively blaming them for suffering that is not their fault then that is sexism. If all feminist do this then they are also by extention sexist and by proxy so is the group. How are they not sexist? They pushed for women getting full custody of children regardless of the fathres wishes. They pushed for women having greater reproductive rights then men, they pushed for the duluth model of domestic violence that states men are the violent ones and women are the innocent victims (despite all statistics showing the opposite) they pushed for the "real men don't rape" campaign that demonizes men and their sexuality, they pushed for the violence against women act which excludes any non women again suggesting that only women can be
be victims and men are only aggressors. They pushed for this ideology that men are oppressors and women are victims despite all evidence showing that women have always been treated better then men through out all of history. So yes feminism is sexism, you cannot divest actions from words (not that it would matter since feminst actions and words synce up perfectly) Do not simply except what your told, question it. That means research and analysis.
@hellionthesage i think you don't care about fact or the definitions of words. There is, therefore, no possibility in having a logical conversation with you.
What facts have I misrepresented? I don't much care for the supposed meaning of words though, they change constantly people have their own opinion on them and usually misuse them. For instance feminism is comprised of two words Femin (in) meaning female or female centric and ism which refers to an ideology thus the actual meaning of the word is female centric ideology. I also think that if one claims to be a part of the group they cannot ignore the actions and doctrine of the group hence my example of christianity. You cannot be a christian while simultaneously rejecting all the things that make them christians. That is an absurd notion but then you know that. I think the reason why you claim that I don't know facts (I have presented many all of which can be proven readily something you haven't done) is that I am saying something you don't want to hear. So you draw away from it and attempt to find some kind of rational for why I am wrong. If I was wrong, you could just easily prove it.
And yet all Christians have to have a few tenets in common, namely a belief in Jesus. Just as all feminists, regardless of what sect, have the "Patriarchy Theory" as a common denominator. One of the most hateful and bigoted ideas ever given voice. All your NAFALT garbage doesn't take away from that. "i think you don't care about fact or the definitions of words. There is, therefore, no possibility in having a logical conversation with you" That right there is the typical feminist intellectual cowardice right there. Someone doesn't agree with you and presents why and you just want to take your ball and go home.
"All women should have the right to believe what they want" . Anti-feminist or non-feminist women are labeled as stupid with internalized misogyny.
A perfect example of this was the #WomenAgainstFeminism campaign. That really rustled feminist, so much so they even accuse some women of being men, only for them to post picture of them holding a piece of paper with their username.
You forgot to mention that out of the small percentage of women who are forced to pay child support, less then 40% do while over 60% of men do (many times regardles of there lack of paternity) thus making woman more likely to be the dead beat parent then men. Otherwise good take.
@VampireEmpress I know that many can't pay. My point was that we only see the men as deadbeats and the women as innocent victims who are just to poor to support their children. Meanwhile those men (some of which are not even the fathers but are still forced to pay) are viewed as dead beats even as they get thrown in prison because they cannot pay, which of course causes them to lose their jobs so when they get out of prison six months later the courts can come in and throw them in prison again for not having the money for the past six months and for being a dead beat who didn't even have the decency to get a job to try and support his kids. See where I am going with this? Its absurd.
yep, totally agree. and did you know people actually have to pay for their jail cells now? how could anyone ever escape from court ordered payments? I think people need to see deadbeats as evil, because otherwise they'd have to admit there's something really wrong with society and the law. it's called the 'justice' system after all, so I think people can be sensitive to criticisms of it.
if you can't work, then you have to turn to crime and drugs or just do community service for free... it's just such a shame. but I don't think the courts/gov are sexist. they just target whoever they can extract the most profit from, which is usually men. I guess since men can do harder labor jobs, or even because they're more likely to turn to crime faster...
@VampireEmpress Actually the courts are sexist. If you look at sentencing women get only a third of what a man does for commiting the same crime hence why women generally don't go to prison for skipping childsupport payments but men do (again even if they are not the father which happens, I wouldn't say regularly but more frequently then is reasonable.) www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...r-gap_n_1874742.html www.law.umich.edu/.../...r_gender_disparities.aspx
I meant that the courts don't act that way for the sake of being sexist... like I said, they can extract the most profit from men a lot of the time, so why wouldn't they charge them more? on the other hand, like when we talked about the rape cases? most don't amount to convictions, and I honestly think that's because the courts don't get any kind of profit from them, for whatever the reason.
so for the rest of the crimes I think men will always be convicted more, because they can be used the most or at least for labor. or even with the divorce thing... if most women had to pay child support and they didn't have enough $, they'd probably have a much higher rate of resorting to welfare. men will resort to selling drugs and stealing... so they have a better chance of paying back some of the money.
why would the gov go after someone for payments, knowing that they'd probably just use the gov for support anyway? so they'll probably always use men the most.
@VampireEmpress If a woman is expected to pay child support then she is by extention wealthier then the man which means more money going through the court rooms and again, we can and have shown a court bias towards women. Those studies where case by case, that is if a woman commited a crime she was given a lighter sentence in comparison to a man. It was not one of them was going to jail and they chose the man it was separate accounts meaning money was not a factor.
you'll see 1 day about what I'm talking about. the only reason those systems are there, are to make money for themselves. and I think thats especially true these days. for another example, look how many people have student loan debt horror stories, and they're not even allowed to file bankruptcy... that wasn't by accident fyi.
I loved this post because some of the points made me really happy and some made me angry, but that's only because some of the points (I feel) are for more specific cases... It's definitely though-provoking! I think you'll see a lot of people arguing both ways about this... I would like to consider myself a Feminist, but I simply can't because my values are not what feminism has come to represent today.
There is a double standard on both sides, whether a woman or a man. We see it in our society, more and more women and women are increasingly changing the rights of men. Here's an example, just about every woman wears pants, as a dress or skirt. In the world of work too, we can observe some women who break the old male domain and feel equal. Here I would like to say that some jobs make women better than men.
I let myself be surprised how the future decides if there is a decline to feminine and masculine ideals or if everything turns even more.
I am aware of some of these things, it has become more difficult as a man to have an opinion or to speak freely. A lot of things i grew up with and things i saw as just "how it is" have changed a lot, i have to be very careful not to just "auto respond" to people with behaviours i grown up with as that was just how things were when i grew up.
Things have certainly sped up more in the past 2-3 years, to the point now where i had to question myself to even respond with this vague response. What i feel as a white man is that my opinion in today's society is very muted. I am not trying to say "oh no poor me" but stating that i feel the change, is it good? maybe, but it does look like its speeding up and not slowing down so we are very much in danger of going too far one way.
My stance at present (with the exception of this post) is to just keep my mouth shut and went for it all to blow over.
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I think a lot of the stuff you mentioned is pretty accurate, and just common sense. It's just people that want to play the victim that use the word "feminist" instead of what they really are which are just people that want to lean on their gender for an excuse to fail or step on people. But those points are just apical to those radical butch people who don't want to be seen as butch.
That being said, some of the stuff You mentioned is just your superiority showing its ugly head.
"That being said, some of the stuff You mentioned is just your superiority showing its ugly head."
What? Superiority? Where on earth was I displaying my superiority on this take?
Yeah... You said out right that women aren't equal... Maybe you meant to say they aren't the same as men? if that's the case you should rephrase bc it comes across as you feel women aren't equal in value
In my opinion you come across as bitter
Why would you assume that? I said women can't do somethings men can do, not that they don't have the right to do so. I never meant it as women aren't equal to men. I would rephrase it but myTakes can't be edited.
Well just the phrasing is why I assumed. to me if two things aren't equal, one is less valuable than the other. But obviously you didn't mean it that way so it just turns out I just don't agree with some of your points lol
i thought you were a dude... That's why It came across that you thought men were superior
"In my opinion you come across as bitter"
I have no choice, I don't think you can list those points without sounding like one but overall I agree with you, I could have written it better.
And no I'm not a dude but I can understand why you would think that :P
Men aren't superior, neither are women. I felt I had to write this because very few people care about the problems men face.
I hope that as some point society will that feminism is simply an alternative word for misandry. It's a man-hating movement. Time to kill it. If misandry is okay then so is misogyny. If virgin-shaming is okay then so should slut-shaming. If skinny-shaming is okay then so should fat-shaming. If hitting men is okay then so should hitting women. If forcing a man to pay alimony for a child that's not even his or did not want, then women should pay alimony for a baby that he wants to keep. I can go on and on.
Here's the real facts! l.facebook.com/l.php
Great take i1127.photobucket.com/.../...-85f0409c20dd.jpg.png + in my mind "US Feminism = female dominance, male bashing" which is why I don't support the shit now LOL.
Women have enough rights as it is, i just had this talk with my older sister and she agrees. Its great women are being treated equal, but that doesn't mean if a Man is more of a hardworker and wants a promotion, he shouldn't get turned down simply for being a male because companies like to please the social norm and instead may promote a female insteaed. I've read this type of story from guys countless times over the net, most feminists not just want to be equal with men but have more power then them. Which is silly, everyone should be the same :)
What kind of downvotes do you want?
Want pink downvotes? Agree with this take,
Want blue downvotes? Disagree with this take.
Anyways,
I am disappointed by you nuts, you came up with very few points.
What about the fact that feminists only act out of self interest, only acts equality on those grounds which would benefit them, eg - no feminist would ask for clubbing of sports teams into one unisex team, and players get the position on the basis of skill.
Also , women tend to get shorter jail time than men. Double standard in public opinions like when woman beats a man in public no one gives a fuck, when man beats woman, hoot hoot.
This is highly inaccurate. I'm sorry that you may have friends like this, but NONE of my female friends who are all feminists believe this, including me. It's sad that you want women to look bad. A feminist demands equal rights and in doing so she asserts her power and her voice which I find beautiful. A feminist also loves men and what they offer just as they love women. There are so many statistics proving that we live in a society that does not treat women equally to men. It's cool that you want to look cool for the guys though. I bet the guys think it's totally hot, girl.
This mytake already pointed out that not all feminists are like this so you bringing up your feminist friends and saying how they think differently isn't relevant.
You in united states or in afghanistan under taliban regime? women got equal rights on the western societies long ago, but the radfems con artists keep to insistent that it's not so.
But her using the term feminist which is defined as the equality between the genders and then using examples that do not actually embody the actual definition just goes to show that she does not understand the actual term. Some of the examples she used are people that are sexist. THEY ARE NOT FEMINISTS. That's a completely different argument, yet being a feminist is given a bad name because they just go by extreme stereotypes. She could have addressed this to sexist man-eating females... but that is not what feminism is about so let's stop acting like those are interchangeable.
And I understand that other countries do not have the same freedoms as others. I know that I should be thankful for where I come from... but isn't that a weak argument? Should I have anyone making me feel bad about feeling like I should be equal in this country because in other countries they don't have it as good as I do? The reality is that I do live in a westernized country and therefore THERE SHOULD BE EQUALITY. And I'm not going to have any person change my mind about that.
Lol not man-eating. Man-hating*
Why you need equality if it's already equality? feminists like to say that there is not equality yet, even after woman get the right to vote to and go to work, and many others things already, just so they can continue to preach against man, and keeping the feminist movement alive by doing so, many feminists need sexism like air. Why is misandrists are not feminists? it's almost like saying that al qaeda is not muslim, radfems are extremists but they are still a feminists as well, and radfems make a considerably part of modern feminism, and that's lowers the reputation of feminism as whole.
"but NONE of my female friends who are all feminists believe this, including me. "
Not everyone lives in your little world darling.
" It's sad that you want women to look bad."
Yet it's perfectly fine for men to look bad. Well that's not hypocritical at all.
"A feminist demands equal rights and in doing so she asserts her power and her voice which I find beautiful."
And in demanding some of those rights, they end up misusing them.
"A feminist also loves men and what they offer just as they love women. "
Generalization 101
"There are so many statistics proving that we live in a society that does not treat women equally to men."
Exactly yet there are little to none for men, despite my take already showing how disadvantaged men are. Where are the statistics for these? I guess men being treated like shit isn't as important as women being treated like one.
"It's cool that you want to look cool for the guys though. I bet the guys think it's totally hot, girl."
I don't want to look cool or hip, I'm simply being a rational minded human being, showing the world doesn't revolve around a single gender.
I'm still looking, decades now, for one of you "feminists" ( I use parentheses because apparently none of you are REAL feminists depending on which Sect is asked) who won't cowardly fall back on the no true Scotsman fallacy when your ACTIONS are judged for what they are. Do you realize how sad it is that the only consistent defense to the hateful people within your group is a fallacy?
A few of those you mentioned I see are true with regards to some hardcore feminists, but honestly, some of your points I've only ever seen people complain about here on Gag but have never witnessed feminists arguing it on here or in real life. Like, for example, I've never heard anyone say "Women get full child custody by default, fathers desperately fight for their children," or "Female sexuality should be open and embraced. Male sexuality is violent and should be contained" or "A drunk woman consenting to sex was raped by the man. A drunk man consenting to sex had poor control over himself and raped the woman." Do feminists blatantly argue like that or are people just assuming implications?
Agreed. I've only seen people complain about this on GAG. I haven't witnessed or heard any of this offline.
The national organization for women actively pushed for women being the primary care giver and even had it on their website until a few years ago where they realized how hypocritical it was and removed it (they still advocated it they simply didn't blatently state it on their website). We have laws that state that if a woman is drunk then if a man has sex with her its rape on most college campuses. The "yes means yes" campaign in california stated that men had to ask for verbal consent to even touch a woman or kiss her otherwise its rape/sexual harrasment. Then the "real men don't rape" campaign (because men are so ignorant that they can't graps the concept that rape is bad with out people telling them apparently) www.google.com/search
So, yes feminist say these things regularly and push for laws to enforce these ideas. Its not an assumption, its not something that feminist imply, they are actively involved.
@hellionthesage Your examples don't sound like what the original post implies which is distinctly anti-male. That's what I'm talking about... what I haven't seen is such blatant anti-male. The rest I have seen. "Real men don't rape" is a generalization phrase much like lumping all feminists or all females or all males into one category and making a statement about them, no?
@SilenRose Same. My old roommate was a feminist, and though we didn't agree on some things... she never went on anti-male rants but rather focused on female issues. It just feels like instead of being pro-male about certain issues where males have a disadvantage and fighting for those rights, men on this site seem to bring up the male issues solely as a retaliation to feminism and turn it into a gender war. It makes no sense to me.
Exactly and it happens every single day.
My face while reading this:
img.pandawhale.com/...lson-Creepy-Nodding-SRXv.gif
<3 Jack
Well done love the take.
Feminazis want the rights but not the responsibilities that come with it.
If they were true feminists they would fight for men's rights as well.
Last sentence > So true
There are no feminists in a sinking ship or a burning house.
I suppose these feminists adopted the double standards of females in society.
Thank you :)
I can't resist asking what are those MRA people doing for women's rights? since even their name doesn't acknowledge women at all?
so if they don't acknowledge women's rights, how are they fighting for equality?
@VampireEmpress MRAs don't have to fight for women's rights because women have already gained equality in the West. It's all about merit for them now.
Men's issues are often overlooked because we are expected to be stoic and let the women complain.
Feminists should fight for men's rights since men face the same problems women once did and do to this day.
Domestic violence, being screwed over by divorce, no aid for rape victims and e. t. c.
But then if they did fight for men's rights as well they would be egalitarian not feminist. Since feminism focuses only on women being made equal to men.
Emma Watson is one of the few advocates for feminism that understands that men's issues exist as well.
Feminazis pollute what was a good idea in order to create an anti-male matriarchal state of social justice warriors. If they truly cared about women's rights they would be in Saudi Arabia right now fighting for them and not complaining about manspreading or some other bs.
but the bottom line is that the mras want to be acknowledged w/o having to do the same, which is extremely unfair.
and men's rights? I said on my main opinion that men are the majority of the victims of most crimes, which are mostly committed byy men... so what do you think of that?
if mras really cared about men instead of just trashing feminsim, they'd talk about how men are mostly the ones victimizing other men from violent attacks and crimes right?
@VampireEmpress Facepalm. They don't have to support feminism because it's already won in the West. It's like joining a war when the enemy has already been vanquished, what good would it do?
Women commit crimes as well but they are not taken as seriously. Women often get lower prison sentences than men for the same crime. MRAs goal is to end this type of preferential treatment.
I'm not talking about male on male crime since in that case a fair punishment is usually giving to the perpetrator.
MRAs are fighting for true equality between men and women. You on the other hand seem to be focused on men harming other men and not seeing that women have it better because of reverse discrimination.
then it depends on how you define winning. did you know that only 2% of rape cases end in convictions? because the victims dismiss the cases or aren't taken seriously? and before you mention that survey about men getting raped, you should remember that its just that, a survey where people could choose to say whatever they want or give random responses. and that same survey in 2011 said that men were the majority of rapists fyi.
you can scroll down and see my last reply to hellionthestage for everything else you mentioned. I don't believe men are treated that way because of feminism but because of profit.
@VampireEmpress Usually a rape claim is enough.
There was a case of a football player that went to jail and lost a lot of money because a woman made a false rape claim. When she admitted she lied and he was released, she wasn't punished.
This system doesn't exist out of profit but because society is structured in a way where men are supposed to be strong and women are allowed to be weak or strong.
If a man cries he is seen as weak, while a woman would be comforted.
If women can be strong, why can't men be weak?
no, like the usual the victim dismissed her claim. in this case, it sounds like she was blaming a famous guy so he could have spent thousands and thousands on the best lawyers and attorneys... what else could she have done but dismiss it?
did you know that lots of people say Elvis used to sleep with 15-16 year old girls? no one did anything about that or cared, since he was so famous.
and the system always tries to get as much profit as possible for itself lol that's why it's there.
and as for the money that he lost... that's what I said to hellionthestage. his $ went to who? did the girl get anything?
why they choose some celebrities and ignore others for this I don't know, but I'm sure that's profit based too.
I love you for making this post. Some people really have no idea how accurate this is.
Some good friends of mine are these "nutty" feminists and it's mildly upsetting that I have been flamed for pointing out these double standards to them, once upon a time. I always find myself having to bite my tongue to avoid "male vs female" debates at some point of the day, though.
I do hope someone posts this on Tumblr, though. The armchair extremism of modern feminism has spread through there like a wildfire.
"• "All women should have the right to believe what they want" . Anti-feminist or non-feminist women are labeled as stupid with internalized misogyny."
So true! I've been called names on here before, simply because I'm not a feminist. And of course they pulled out the "internalized misogyny" card immediately.
Nice take.
I'm not a feminist since I have become Christian and believe that Christian beliefs are better for both men and women
When I was a feminist, my concern with the issue of women being scantily clad in media isn't that it happens to women more often (women are just hotter than men) but that often women are forced to do it, or otherwise not allowed representation in media (and women only have 25% of speaking roles in media to begin with). There are many women who want representation in media but aren't able to, because they're not comfortable stripping down
This is also why a woman freely choosing to wear revealing clothes is different from women in media.
Many suffragettes such as emmeline pankhurst did advocate that women be conscripted. Other suffragists fought against conscription for both men and women; Quakers, who are anti-war, made up a high percentage of suffragists.
This is why I dislike myTakes like this. Even though you are listing your personal views on it and even gave a disclaimer: "I wouldn't directly blame feminists for all of these, but I would say they're a side effect."
When you post something like this you will have the misogynist flocking here and using your own words against true feminist and not the corrupt ones (such as those who don't believe in equal pay). Also the women you describe who think like that sound more like misandrist then feminist. I also believe men and women will never truly be equal because some things men do better then woman and some things women do better then men but it can be pretty close.
All of these where valid points and in my experience and according to (nearly) all feminist writers/educators/organizations these are the things they advocate. That is quite provable. Further more you criticising her for stating these discrepencies shows that you really only care about the image of feminist not true equality. True feminist are exactly as she described, you prove it by criticising her pointing out the discrepencies. You cannot name a single thing feminist did for men becaues they have not done any thing for men. They have consistently advocated for women having the rights that men have but none of the responsiblity (while maintaining all the privledges of being a woman on top of that.).
@hellionthesage You just proved my point. Thank you for showing an example of the type of misogynist this myTake attracts. :)
How was anything I said misogynist? At no point did I exibit any behavior or make any statement that suggests I hate women, unless you believe that to attack the feminist ideology is the same as attacking all women which would be an absurd thing to think. The irony is that by claiming I am misogynist you are attempting to shame me into not arguing, the ironic part in this is that this tactic only works if our society as a whole (and I personally) find the idea of hating women revolting. Ie you are using societies desire and prefferential treatment of women to prevent the questioning of this prefferential treatment.
@hellionthesage You're free to express your opinion but you should be prepared to be called out on your misogynistic views. You don't actually have to say "I hate women" to make it obvious. <3
@hellionthesage I can say that that is a lie. Many feminists advocate for men on the lines of sexual abuse and mistreatment. The truth is that being a woman in this country is automatically a disadvantage. We are paid less, socially conditioned to believe that we need to adjust our bodies for men's approval, and are not given the same ranking in many occupations statistically based off gender. Just like with Black Lives Matter, they are not saying that just black lives matter, but if a certain group is mistreated, it is important that their voice is heard.
"Even though you are listing your personal views on it and even gave a disclaimer: "I wouldn't directly blame feminists for all of these, but I would say they're a side effect.""
That isn't a disclaimer, you took that sentence the wrong way. The things I don't directly blame on feminists - are the side effects. The things I blamed them for - are 100% their fault.
"true feminist" ? Who are you to say who's a feminist and who's not. The ideals don't make a feminist, the feminists make the ideals.
"Also the women you describe who think like that sound more like misandrist then feminist."
I'm not describing any "women", I'm listing the effects of feminism, using women as a medium. Big difference.
@myTake Owner
Oh okay. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I guess I was wrong. The others were correct in their statements.
"This is why I dislike myTakes like this. Even though you are listing your personal views on it"
Right benefit of the doubt 😒
@smalls1995 No, it is not a lie. If you can prove it then do. However feminist had the definition of rape altered to "a penatrative act". Notice how this excludes women? Only men have the "equipment" to penetrate. So the CDC research team found that only 1% of men where ever raped. Yet if you read deeper you notice a statistic under sexual assualt that is labeled "forced to penetrate" ie female on male rape. That number is almost identicle to the female rape. Odd isn't it? Especially since Christine Lindquist a socioligist and feminist (responsible for the false 1 in 5 statistic) was apart of this team. Thats feminist harming men ignoring male victims. The National Organization for Women actively pushed for mothers to be viewed as the primary caregiveres and thus get full custody cutting fathers out of their childrens lives. Feminists backed the duluth model of domestic violence that states that men are the primary aggressor and women the primary victims.
@smalls1995 This is rather ironic since all data shows that men are more likely to experience domestic violence at the hands of women rather then the other way around. 70% of all non-reciprocal violence between intimate partners is perpetrated by the woman. 50% of reciprocal violence is perpetrated by the woman. While a violent relationship was not an indicator for violence in previous or future relationships for men it was an indicator of violence for the females ie the violence was instigated by the woman. When it comes to emotional/verbal abuse men experience it at a significantly greater percentage then women do. Yet feminist pushed for the idea that it was only men who where abusive. Amy schumer spoke at a feminist event and regailed them with a story of how she raped a man, how she whent in and had sex with him while he was blacked out (she also mocked him for his lack of performance) she was applauded. Feminists do not care about equality.
@myTake Owner
I further went on to explain why I dislike myTakes like this: "When you post something like this you will have the misogynist flocking here and using your own words against true feminist and not the corrupt ones". However, you said I was wrong. I didn't want to believe you were blaming all feminist but you said I was wrong. So...
"First of all I'd like to say I'm not a feminist (it has mostly to do with my belief that women aren't equal to men in all regards, that there are certain things only men can do.) My beliefs are however not relevant to this myTake. It's written solely to list some of the double standards that have arisen or/and have been influenced by feminism."
First paragraph proves how clueless you are & why no one should even take this myTake serious lol! You really need to brush up on your history & what feminism is.
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confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/about
Another one bites the dust :)
I'm guessing you're one of those people who take textbook definitions literally to heart as the basis of your foundations, well good for you.
If you are in fact so knowledgeable about feminism then please take the time to explain what exactly makes me so clueless on the subject, instead of nonchalantly bashing my take without even presenting a reasonable argument.
Simply stating dur dur "This paragraph shows how clueless you are... lol!" only makes you seem unintelligible.
Funny how you same people will point to Webster's as the argument for "what feminism means" yet you need to change the meaning of words like "rape", "racism", and so on and so on to suit your needs. You're the same people who say "hur dur look at the idiots who don't believe in science" when talking about climate change yet to you "biology doesn't mean anything, gender is a construct" etc etc. Simply adorable.
Yeah but women who believe that are only self appointed feminists. They're not feminist in any real sense of the word.
You're just describing sexist people.
Modern feminism is sexist in nature.
Feminist are sexist, these are feminist, they have fought for these things, advocate for these things and encourage it. Its in their writings and in their teachings. Its the equivalent of saying that "real" christians don't believe in jesus christ, its literally integral to their entire ideology.
@hellionthesage flip the Christianity around and you got it right.
Just like many Christians like to call themselves that, yet only use it as a means to pout and cry and take freedoms from others, many will call themselves feminist yet only do that.
There are tons of groups that have a bunch of cunts that take the word without the teachings solely for their own benefit. Feminism isn't special in that regard and thus, like all those other philosophies, the basic ideas shouldn't be forgotten because a few bad people want to manipulate it for self gain.
Feminism by definition is not about equality its a female centric ideology. You cannot be about equality while actively fighting it as feminist do. My statement still stands. If the entire body of work the feminist writers and academics are actively attacking men and actively blaming them for suffering that is not their fault then that is sexism. If all feminist do this then they are also by extention sexist and by proxy so is the group. How are they not sexist? They pushed for women getting full custody of children regardless of the fathres wishes. They pushed for women having greater reproductive rights then men, they pushed for the duluth model of domestic violence that states men are the violent ones and women are the innocent victims (despite all statistics showing the opposite) they pushed for the "real men don't rape" campaign that demonizes men and their sexuality, they pushed for the violence against women act which excludes any non women again suggesting that only women can be
be victims and men are only aggressors. They pushed for this ideology that men are oppressors and women are victims despite all evidence showing that women have always been treated better then men through out all of history. So yes feminism is sexism, you cannot divest actions from words (not that it would matter since feminst actions and words synce up perfectly) Do not simply except what your told, question it. That means research and analysis.
@hellionthesage i think you don't care about fact or the definitions of words. There is, therefore, no possibility in having a logical conversation with you.
What facts have I misrepresented? I don't much care for the supposed meaning of words though, they change constantly people have their own opinion on them and usually misuse them. For instance feminism is comprised of two words Femin (in) meaning female or female centric and ism which refers to an ideology thus the actual meaning of the word is female centric ideology. I also think that if one claims to be a part of the group they cannot ignore the actions and doctrine of the group hence my example of christianity. You cannot be a christian while simultaneously rejecting all the things that make them christians. That is an absurd notion but then you know that. I think the reason why you claim that I don't know facts (I have presented many all of which can be proven readily something you haven't done) is that I am saying something you don't want to hear. So you draw away from it and attempt to find some kind of rational for why I am wrong. If I was wrong, you could just easily prove it.
And yet all Christians have to have a few tenets in common, namely a belief in Jesus. Just as all feminists, regardless of what sect, have the "Patriarchy Theory" as a common denominator. One of the most hateful and bigoted ideas ever given voice. All your NAFALT garbage doesn't take away from that.
"i think you don't care about fact or the definitions of words. There is, therefore, no possibility in having a logical conversation with you"
That right there is the typical feminist intellectual cowardice right there. Someone doesn't agree with you and presents why and you just want to take your ball and go home.
"All women should have the right to believe what they want" . Anti-feminist or non-feminist women are labeled as stupid with internalized misogyny.
A perfect example of this was the #WomenAgainstFeminism campaign. That really rustled feminist, so much so they even accuse some women of being men, only for them to post picture of them holding a piece of paper with their username.
You forgot to mention that out of the small percentage of women who are forced to pay child support, less then 40% do while over 60% of men do (many times regardles of there lack of paternity) thus making woman more likely to be the dead beat parent then men. Otherwise good take.
honestly, a lot of parents are deadbeats because they can't afford to pay. I could link you to an article about that if you wanna see.
@VampireEmpress I know that many can't pay. My point was that we only see the men as deadbeats and the women as innocent victims who are just to poor to support their children. Meanwhile those men (some of which are not even the fathers but are still forced to pay) are viewed as dead beats even as they get thrown in prison because they cannot pay, which of course causes them to lose their jobs so when they get out of prison six months later the courts can come in and throw them in prison again for not having the money for the past six months and for being a dead beat who didn't even have the decency to get a job to try and support his kids. See where I am going with this? Its absurd.
yep, totally agree. and did you know people actually have to pay for their jail cells now? how could anyone ever escape from court ordered payments? I think people need to see deadbeats as evil, because otherwise they'd have to admit there's something really wrong with society and the law. it's called the 'justice' system after all, so I think people can be sensitive to criticisms of it.
if you can't work, then you have to turn to crime and drugs or just do community service for free... it's just such a shame. but I don't think the courts/gov are sexist. they just target whoever they can extract the most profit from, which is usually men. I guess since men can do harder labor jobs, or even because they're more likely to turn to crime faster...
@VampireEmpress Actually the courts are sexist. If you look at sentencing women get only a third of what a man does for commiting the same crime hence why women generally don't go to prison for skipping childsupport payments but men do (again even if they are not the father which happens, I wouldn't say regularly but more frequently then is reasonable.) www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...r-gap_n_1874742.html
www.law.umich.edu/.../...r_gender_disparities.aspx
I meant that the courts don't act that way for the sake of being sexist... like I said, they can extract the most profit from men a lot of the time, so why wouldn't they charge them more? on the other hand, like when we talked about the rape cases? most don't amount to convictions, and I honestly think that's because the courts don't get any kind of profit from them, for whatever the reason.
so for the rest of the crimes I think men will always be convicted more, because they can be used the most or at least for labor. or even with the divorce thing... if most women had to pay child support and they didn't have enough $, they'd probably have a much higher rate of resorting to welfare. men will resort to selling drugs and stealing... so they have a better chance of paying back some of the money.
why would the gov go after someone for payments, knowing that they'd probably just use the gov for support anyway? so they'll probably always use men the most.
@VampireEmpress If a woman is expected to pay child support then she is by extention wealthier then the man which means more money going through the court rooms and again, we can and have shown a court bias towards women. Those studies where case by case, that is if a woman commited a crime she was given a lighter sentence in comparison to a man. It was not one of them was going to jail and they chose the man it was separate accounts meaning money was not a factor.
you'll see 1 day about what I'm talking about. the only reason those systems are there, are to make money for themselves. and I think thats especially true these days. for another example, look how many people have student loan debt horror stories, and they're not even allowed to file bankruptcy... that wasn't by accident fyi.
I loved this post because some of the points made me really happy and some made me angry, but that's only because some of the points (I feel) are for more specific cases...
It's definitely though-provoking! I think you'll see a lot of people arguing both ways about this...
I would like to consider myself a Feminist, but I simply can't because my values are not what feminism has come to represent today.
There is a double standard on both sides, whether a woman or a man. We see it in our society, more and more women and women are increasingly changing the rights of men. Here's an example, just about every woman wears pants, as a dress or skirt. In the world of work too, we can observe some women who break the old male domain and feel equal.
Here I would like to say that some jobs make women better than men.
I let myself be surprised how the future decides if there is a decline to feminine and masculine ideals or if everything turns even more.
I am aware of some of these things, it has become more difficult as a man to have an opinion or to speak freely. A lot of things i grew up with and things i saw as just "how it is" have changed a lot, i have to be very careful not to just "auto respond" to people with behaviours i grown up with as that was just how things were when i grew up.
Things have certainly sped up more in the past 2-3 years, to the point now where i had to question myself to even respond with this vague response. What i feel as a white man is that my opinion in today's society is very muted. I am not trying to say "oh no poor me" but stating that i feel the change, is it good? maybe, but it does look like its speeding up and not slowing down so we are very much in danger of going too far one way.
My stance at present (with the exception of this post) is to just keep my mouth shut and went for it all to blow over.