The Importance of Acknowledging Multiple Definitions of Feminism

[samhradh_leannan]

Feminism is a touchy subject these days, and there are many reasons for that. But one major contributing factor is confusion about what people actually mean when they use the term "feminism". Traditionally, feminism refers to the fight for gender equality and the belief that women should be socially, politically, and economically equal to men.

Despite the persisting dictionary definition, the rise of radical feminism has introduced new ideas about what "feminism" can mean. Feminism is now often associated with misandry, and the definition of the term "feminism" has become convoluted and messy. Some people would even go as far as to define feminism as a form of misandry or a misandristic concept- and that choice is not unfounded. But using an existing established term in a completely new way has consequences.

The main consequence I'm referring to here is confusion. You might be for or against feminism, but that likely depends at least partly on the definition you use. No matter how strongly you feel that your own definition is the most correct or best one, the reality is that others out there are defining the term in different ways. Multiple definitions are a fact at this point. The terms "feminism" and "misandry" may be used, confusingly, with either very similar definitions OR nearly opposite ones. This can cause serious misunderstandings during conversations about feminism, and you might waste energy (and peace of mind) arguing with someone who actually agrees with you about the real issues.

Person 1: "I'm against feminism."

Person 2: *gasps* "How could you?!"

Person 3: *Grabs popcorn*

I'm not here to tell you that you must adhere to the traditional dictionary definition of feminism. But when you talk about the subject of feminism with others, it is imperative to acknowledge that the person you're speaking with may be using a definition that differs from the one you choose to use. Neither of you is necessarily right or wrong; what's really important is where you stand on the issues themselves, not how you choose to define a term. So the next time you're having a discussion about feminism, remember to clarify what you really mean when you use the term. This will help you avoid meaningless disagreements and put you on the right path towards a productive conversation.

Thanks for reading!

Image sources:

bellebrita.com

jordantrudgett.com

apfw.wordpress.com

[Anonymous]

You can make up new definitions to suit your needs, but feminism at its core is a hate group and always has been. This is why the most famous voices of feminism have spewed hate and misandry.
It is why major groups like NOW, WAR, and the Women's UN have stopped equal rights for men and made idols out of false rape accusers.

So regardless of the "definition" a person claims to be part of, if you claim to be a "nazi", you can't claim to be a "3rd wave nazi" which only believes in "good" nazi stuff, as if that makes it magically ok to be part of a hate group.

There are few if any people in western society who believe that women and men shouldn't be equal. There are on the other hand MANY women who believe that women should have more privileges than men. Which is why western women DO have much more rights and privileges than men in the western world.

Eastern cultures still need to come a long way but western women are NOT underprivileged, they are not the victims, they are not oppressed.

[Anonymous]

There are no multiple-definitions. Femi-Nazis should found their Femi-Nazi organization, because they are just giving a bad name to a noble movement. They are not feminists, they are just bitter misandrist beatches. True Feminists don't hate men.

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree with you, but at this point, there are many people who insist that the definition of feminism has changed. That's why it's important to talk about meanings in order have a productive conversation.

[UnknownReflection]

Finally someone understands! i respect you at the highest.

[Salohcin22]

I agree with you, but most true feminists have left the movement and don't care or police the sexist feminists, which shows that they don't actually care about men or sexism, as long as they get the extra power and benefits, the other groups can go f themselves.

[Opinion Owner]

Definitions can't be changed, a tree is a tree, and it will always have approximately the same definition. People who insist on changing the definition are those who lack understanding of what feminism is, and those guys who are trying to equate feminists with femi-nazis, because such men are misogynists, just like femi-nazis are misandrists. That way, they are just pandering the femi-nazis, with their stupidity.

[Opinion Owner]

@UnknownReflection Thank you, I'm glad you like my opinion :)

[Opinion Owner]

@Salohcin22 True Feminists should form the Original Feminism movement, but the thing is, most of them think feminism has mostly carried out it's mission in the modern countries. That's why femi-nazis are still ruling the movement, making it look bad, because they are falsely representing "feminism".

[Ramiro1992]

there's not 2 separate movements, there is only 1 feminist movement, so if you call yourself a feminist, you should accept everything that comes with that movement, otherwise you are not a feminist

[Opinion Owner]

@Ramiro1992 That's not true, because femi-nazis are not true feminists, they are not following the ideals of feminist movement, they are misandrists and self-proclaimed "feminist", just like Stalinists were false "communists".

[FakeName123]

"That's not true, because femi-nazis are not true feminists, they are not following the ideals of feminist movement, they are misandrists and self-proclaimed "feminist", just like Stalinists were false "communists"."

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...0cd55e6a1e.jpg

You are welcome.

[Opinion Owner]

@FakeName123 Dude, cut the crap, so called "Scotsman fallacy" is an idiotism created by quasi-intellectuals like you. We all know what feminism is, and what feminism isn't - that's real logic, not bullshit like femi-nazism and your obvious pseudo-philosophical misogyny. Now quit spamming ;)

[FakeName123]

Everything to appeal to your own bias.

Femi-Nazis are part of the feminism label. If you want it or not. And if it really bothers you, you don't push the responsibility away by saying "they are not" - but actively go up against them. Yet I don't see anyone actively doing it. All you have to say "they are not TRUE feminists". This is why no one in their right mind takes your bunch serious. You are making a joke out of yourself.

[Opinion Owner]

@FakeName123 Femi-Nazis are not following the ideals of Feminism, the only bias and joke I see here is yours. You can't blame honest Feminists for things stated by the Femi-Nazis, it's like if you would blame all the Germans because of things stated by the Nazi regime in the WW2.

[Mysterioustruth]

There's nothing noble about feminism

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth There is nothing noble about femi-nazism, but feminism is totally noble.

[Mysterioustruth]

What is feminism needed for today?

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth For female rights (not all the countries are fair to women).

[Mysterioustruth]

Right but unfortunately these feminists aren't doing anything to help those women in other countries. If we are talking about western females. Women are the most privileged group in the history of humamity.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth Nope, noblemen and royalty are the most privileged people in history, as for the women in other countries, feminists can't do much to help them, because feminism movement has no control over army. You can't convince some islamic dictator to stop maltreating women just like that, such people are not very reasonable.

[Mysterioustruth]

Right but you can still try! It's better than the bullshit propaganda going on in the west.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth I'm aware that west is full of bullshit propaganda, but what can I do as an individual, I have no political power... if I were a politician, I would do something :)

[Mysterioustruth]

Good, so stop complaining and if you want to change things, go into politics.

[Opinion Owner]

@Mysterioustruth I'm not complaining here, you are ;)

[FakeName123]

"the rise of radical feminism"

Meanwhile already the 60s-70s feminists were radical nutcases:

"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" ~Susan Brownmiller

"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." ~Catherine MacKinnon

"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." ~Robin Morgan

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." ~Andrea Dworkin

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." ~Sally Miller Gearhart

"All men are rapists and that’s all they are" ~Marilyn French

"Patriarchy requires violence or the subliminal threat of violence in order to maintain itself… The most dangerous situation for a woman is not an unknown man in the street, or even the enemy in wartime, but a husband or lover in the isolation of their home." ~Gloria Steinem

"We have long known that rape has been a way of terrorizing us and keeping us in subjection. Now we also know that we have participated, although unwittingly, in the rape of our minds." ~Gerda Lerner

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together…. Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process…. No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children… Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people’s needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all." ~Linda Gordon

And you want to tell me, tell us that radical feminism is just recently rising and that you rather want to talk semantics instead of accepting that the entire movement is rotten to it's core.

I am saying this even while ignoring the White Feathers movement of the Women Suffragettes who shamed teenage boys into going to war as well as the connections they had to the KKK - only wanting white women to be able to vote.

Clearly the different definitions people have is the problem though... not.

[UnknownReflection]

Short and productive. I like it.

I didn't even know there are different definitions of Feminism but i found out about it ever since i joined this community. Where i live in L. A Feminism is what it used to be for the most part.
But here. People are confused as hell. Everyone defining their own definition. Specially confused people who grew thinking Feminism is as equal as Feminazi.

I've learnt this recently myself and appreciate your brief explanation and maybe few people think about it deeply and realize Feminism is getting twisted meanings and people view it differently. Which is odd. However, yet crucial to talk about it in order to be productive during conversations. To find this ability to reach an understanding with the opposite when a person claims they are Feminist or Anti-Feminist. What are their sides and intentions.

Your Take's goal is to give a hint to people that they must learn to inform their intentions if they claim Feminism or Anti-Feminism. Because Feminism has many forms and meanings nowadays. (Which is true) but i also would mention, if we want to have a really productive discussion, Many individuals also must learn to maintain their morality and don't necessarily prove how rude and impolite they raised to be by attacking someone or group of people because of their belief or claims. I'm saying this because i have observed it in this community. When the word Feminism get to be discussed. People forget their civilization and morality. The environment turns into Profanity University without any useful outcome at the end. This is absolutely terrible.

[samhradh_leannan]

Yep. People go nuts here over feminism.

[HorrorFan]

To all feminists:

Movements and ideologies change over time or are taken over and aren't beholden to dictionary definitions.

Look up the dictionary definition of communism. Now think about everything that has happened in the name of communism. Do you see the disconnect?

One has to ask oneself when one is a part of a movement... what is that movement currently fighting for?

You can only fight for legal rights for a group. Attempting anything beyond this is thought policing, which is totalitarian in nature. In the US at least, women are legally equal to men. (this is actually avoiding going into things like child custody/divorce laws and jail time that FAVORS women legally)

So if men and women are legally equal, what is the movement fighting for? Is it to make sure that things stay equal? This is done through the majority (of those that matter) being simply egalitarian. No one is rescinding female rights without a massive shit show that simply won't fly.

So since feminism isn't really fighting for anything in the present day but won't actually go away, then it has to make things up so that it seems like it's fighting for something.

Enter the wage gap, pink tax and various other non issues. This is the type of fallacious shit that frustrates virtually everyone. Throw in all the other crazy shit that loud mouthed feminazis spew and this is where we're at in today's society. Throw in total bullshit like the false dichotomy of "You are either a feminist or a misogynist." utter garbage and here we are.

This is why feminism has become such a talking point.

The far left/SWJ/Feminist types are so busy accusing everyone that disagrees of wrongthink or blocking them completely from rational discourse that they often chase away potential allies and actual bolster the opposition.

[Anonymous]

I agree with your point whole heartedly. The loss of meaning in words has pervaded many issues in modern times. But what I find fascinating is people's responses. You could write an article that is explicitly misandrous and get half the responses and a quarter of the outrage. But you instead write an article that could easily be viewed as a criticism of feminism and all the MRAs come out of the woodwork to scream bloody murder.

The thing that threatens them most is not the boogeyman (evil feminist conspiracy) winning. The thing that threatens them most is the boogeyman not existing. They have based their whole identity on opposition to the boogeyman of their choice. Used it as a scape goat for their faults, etc. Being in a fight with their enemy is what they want. But their "enemy" either not existing or not acknowledging them makes them furious.

[samhradh_leannan]

Isn't that interesting? My article doesn't even support feminism, and it CERTAINLY doesn't support misogyny. But people are responding as though it does.

[Petersmithing]

The problem is feminist are no longer looking for equality but rather to become the dominating gender in society. The best thing I did was to say fuck to society. And what society demands from men. This modern type of men, who kisses women ass simply doesn't work well.

I went back to my roots and I feel good being a man nowadays. I don't give a shit if they call me macho or whatever. A lot of women don't even know what that means any longer. A girlfriend of my friend, called him macho because he didn't like the idea of her going out naked to a nightclub and getting drunk. As I said, society is fucked up!

[Chico_brah]

Okay. Nobody in real life knows different definitions of feminism. The issue with this is the fact that you can use whatever definition of feminism you want in attempt to make it fit the narrative that you wish. In other words, use whatever definition benefits you at that time. Feminism is a joke. Any woman who calls themselves a feminist in the U. S. is a joke. My girlfriend cringes at feminism. My mother cringes at feminism, and my sister cringes at feminism. Only in western society do we have women acting like men to try and prove a point. So no, we're not confused. We simply don't give a fuck because feminism is a joke.

[samhradh_leannan]

I know lots of people who consider themselves feminists who are not acting like men or against men. Multiple definitions ARE used; there's not a question there.

[WavyWyx]

Feminism isn't a joke. It should probably be replaced by new labels though, because that "feminist" one is being used by a lot of different groups. I would suggest something that incorporates both genders, because if you're trying to figure out the role gender plays in society, it doesn't make any sense to isolate the "female variable", as if women aren't a part of society, and have no influence on social norms or policies. Even in cultures where women have roughly the same rights as a family pet you can stick your dick in, they still have power. Nor does it make sense to make a monolith of men, as if men are always this fixed hyper-masculine, hyper-dominant variable.

[Salohcin22]

@WavyWyx
What I've learned is the way you can tell a groups true goals is to see look at any actions that conflict with one another and then mark that out. Politicians who completely flip ideology or from democrat to republican do not care about the issues both organizations have, and therefore only have the goal of power. (Yes, I'm looking at you Rick Perry)

Feminsm has a bunch of conflicting views but still has some overall goals. there are pro life and pro choice femists, but the pro choice feminsts sometimes get mad at pro life ones and tell them they are real feminists, so being pro-choice kind of matters. They allow women who hate men, and are against any men's rights, so being equal and not sexist is not one of their goals. A good chunk are radical feminists, and several leaders are radical as wel. The radicalism is a grass roots movement too, my whole Universities Feminist group has spiteful manhating all over their facebook. In the end Feminism is for Power and Womens Rights

[Ramiro1992]

he is right, feminism is a complete joke, and you should stop being a feminist for your own good

[WavyWyx]

@Salohcin22 Once again, I'm thinking you're making a monolith out of feminism. To make an analogy, let's compare feminism to atheism. Atheism is simply the belief that there are no deities. However, atheists, as a group, are often associated with anti-theists (people who actively oppose religion). But do you have to be an anti-theist to be an atheist? Of course not, but even some atheists would argue to the contrary. Atheism and "anything" isn't just atheism.

In the same way, feminism could be defined as the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. Some feminists believe you have to be a misandrist to really be a feminist. Or a seperatist. Or whatever. But you can distill feminism down to that central premise. I suggest that feminists who do believe misandry solves problems or that the study of women's role in society merits roughly 40% of all national news stories and it's own field of academic study find something else to call themselves.

[Ramiro1992]

@WavyWyx wrong, feminism was never about equality. it was always for more rights for women

[WavyWyx]

@Ramiro1992 Yes, which at times included the right to vote, the right for equal opportunity in schools and professional fields, the right to served in the armed forces. You know... "equality".

[WavyWyx]

@Ramiro1992 I'm gonna be honest, that was just kind of a dumb, not-very-smart thing to say. lol

[Ramiro1992]

@WavyWyx they didn't fought for men's rights, they only fought for women's right, but both are already equal, there should not be a discussion, everybody knows that feminism is not about equality anymore, feminist people like you are trying hard to win any debate but you already lost showing as how dumb of a feminist you are, it's irrelevant for me what you think, because any feminist argument is not worth my time

[Ramiro1992]

@WavyWyx I think you should give up, you are embarrasing yourself even further, I am not suprised that you are a feminist, you are a dumbass

[WavyWyx]

@Ramiro1992 Alright, you got me! I give up. Such peerless rhetoric.

[Salohcin22]

@WavyWyx
disregarding ramiro,

While it would be nice for the more radical feminists to label themselves something else,. I disagree that feminism is fighting for equality. That statement is fallacious. When women didn't have the right to vote and the majority of rights issues were women's rights issues, feminism was acting the same way that egalitarianism would because of the disproportionate lack of women's rights. After that, there was a split. When things get more equal like today, you can finally see how neither Feminists or MRAs are fighting for equal rights. They are only fighting for one gender's rights based on the assumption that that gender is oppressed and grossly in need of rights/power whatever.

All claims that you can make about feminism being for equality can be equally made about MRAs. They both pretend to be for equal rights, but are somehow opposed to each other. In fact, MRAs came because feminism was not addressing equal rights. If they had ever focused on men's

[Salohcin22]

@WavyWyx
Rights, then the organization would never have been created. If you go to the Wiki on Men's Rights Activists for example you can see the similar "Academics critique the rhetorical framing of custody decisions, stating that men's rights advocates appeal for "equal rights" without specifying the constitutional rights that they believe have been violated"

Feminism can never be about equal rights topics for both genders because it never was, and the name itself is not even gender neutral.

As for why people identify as a Feminist claiming it's about equal rights instead of just being egalitarian suggests that they don't really care about men's rights or men's issues.

Whenever you make a claim that feminism is for gender equality, first make sure it isn't on the assumption that men and women today are mostly equal, and then switch all the gender pronouns and see if you can apply it to MRAs, that way you can see the contradiction if they can use it as an excuse too.

[XRabbitHeartX]

Yeah it's funny because people knit pick. When it comes to feminism, a lot of men seem to think there cannot be multiple feminisms. If you believe in gender equality, you must of course, also believe that women need MORE privileges. They cannot comprehend that a concept as feminism spans through multiple extremes, depths etc. and depends on various factors such as location and culture. It's like "Oh you are a feminist? Enough said. Let me just assume I know every single little thing about you". I'm just meh about it really. The right people will actually be able to be intelligent enough about it and understand you cannot just know what a person stands for due to one statement. Triggered people will on the other hand, be triggered by one statement and will then think they know EVERYTHING. Just feel sorry for those people!

[homegirl123]

I think we need to talk more about feminism and educate others about what it means to be a feminist. Because, like the article says, there IS a lot of confusion around the term. I wish there would be more unity in giving women rights, because in this day and age we should have to fight to be independent, strong, and paid equally.

And can I just say it is supremely ironic how there are a shit ton of men trying to mansplain feminism and why it "isn't good".

[Mysterioustruth]

Women like you are the reason men hate feminism and think women are inferiority.

[homegirl123]

@Mysterioustruth Seriously? you don't even know me... I am pretty sure I am not the reason. And no matter what ones opinions are they should not be seen as lesser. All opinions are valid and are worthy of discussion, that does not make them right, but that does not mean one can disrespect them.

[Mysterioustruth]

Again... this is why men see woman as inferior

[homegirl123]

@Mysterioustruth Really? because I'm open minded and want to hear the opinions of other? Those are the principles that guided the constitution, greek philosophy, and 18c philosophy. Openness to new ideas is the reason we have the United States, Democracy, football, softball, the internet...

[Mysterioustruth]

You're not open minded. I just I'm very weak right now. Unless you bring an interesting point I'll argue with you. But all those big paragraph of yours had nothing intelling or factual in them.

[Mysterioustruth]

You're are almost laughable

[homegirl123]

@Mysterioustruth I can't with this you just want me to agree with you and that is not going to happen. I am willing to have a conversation about the pros and cons of feminism, but you clearly think that you are an omniscient being and that I am an ignorant troll. Its sad because I am sure that we probably do agree on several issues, but your inability to have an intellectual conversation with out trying to put me down completely stops that process.

[Mysterioustruth]

It's because I've had so many of these intellectual conversations that I'm tired but I don't mind having an intelligent conversation with. Okay what are women fighting for.

[Mysterioustruth]

And please don't mention pay gap because it doesn't exist, and don't mention anything emotion. Use only FACTS.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth The pay gap of seventy seven cents to the dollar doesn't exist, because it doesn't acknowledge differences in jobs. But there is in fact still a pay gap of ninety three to ninety five cents to the dollar when differences in jobs ARE taken into consideration. Just putting that out there. Do what you will with it. www.politifact.com/.../

[Mysterioustruth]

Does that pay gap take into consideration the life choices women? Does it take testosterone Into consideration? If anything women have an advantage. They are at a 2 to 1 advantage to get hired in certain jobs. So women should stop whining and try to perform well.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth Why would it take testosterone into consideration?

[Mysterioustruth]

Because testosterone is 1 of the many reasons that men excel or get paid better than women.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth Excelling better and getting paid better are two very separate concepts.

[Mysterioustruth]

You get paid better when you excel honey. That why there difference in pay.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth Paying someone better because they're legitimately and noticeably doing better work is entirely different from automatically paying someone better based on their testosterone levels.

[homegirl123]

According to pew research a legitimate research center there is a wage gap. www.pewresearch.org/.../

Also, these are considering varying jobs, et cetera. So you are right. Women are not being paid as much, in some cases, because of the jobs they hold. And I am completely aware that women have many rights and in some cases equal rights as men.

But growing up as a women I have had to fight for what I have. I fought to play on a flag football team growing up, because "football is for boys." I am constantly told "you should become a house wife" beside the fact that I tell these people I am studying to become a neuropsychologist. I do not want to be superior to men I just want to have freedom and choice in what I do. I should not be told that "because your a girl you should not be in science". I have been told that I CAN NOT work the same as men because I am a woman. This struggle may not be evident to you because you do have to live through this.

[homegirl123]

but I do and many other women do as well. I just want social reform so I can pursue my dreams with out being told I can't because of my sex. I do not want to take away a mans rights or devalue a man, because that is what I have had to live through. It is more about social sentiments about what a woman can do in society, for me.

[homegirl123]

and women are not excelling in positions because they are seen as incapable because of their sex. Men are seen as leader and women are not. We are working towards both sexes being seen as leaders, but until then men will continue to get promoted and women will not. yes SOME women do. But we have to realize that we, as a society, NOT JUST MEN have stigmas surrounding a womens abilities and limits.

[Mysterioustruth]

Homegirl your an idiot! No facts all that bla bla that you are doing is solely based on emotion. Women aren't being paid less than men infact they are paid even better. Study show that young women are paid more than there male counterparts. Women actually have an advantage in work place. All they need to do is show their tits and they get the job. There are certain jobs where women are at a 2-1 advantage to getting into. When all factors are taking into consideration, there isn't a wage gap. So what's the hysteria about.

[homegirl123]

@Mysterioustruth Going back to calling me an idiot now are we?
And really? "women can just show their tits and get a job" I have heard men say, " I just flirted with this girl" or did "x" and they got the job, free stuff, et cetera. And I would like to see that study that says women get paid more, because that isn't true. you can even look at the most public jobs out there--hollywood. Women in hollywood are not getting paid as much as men (ex. scarlet johanson v the lead male avengers).

I also think its funny how I am able to PROOVE my points and yet you have none. strange how that works.

[Mysterioustruth]

When it comes to Hollywood honey, it's offer and demand. The best, most popular and interesting actors are males, so they are paid more. Look stop with all that victimization bullshit. If women earn less is for a reason. I guess the wage gap that you don't take all factors into consideration highlight the difference between men and women. Men are actually at a disadvantage in society today. However we don't complain, we just work very hard. Women like to whine and cry instead of putting in work hence they are paid less. It's simple you want to be paid well, stop whining, shut up and work!!!

[homegirl123]

@Mysterioustruth OH MY GOSH!!! MEN ARE NOT AT A DISADVANTAGE STOP!!! If you are African American, Latinio, Muslim, yes you are at a disadvantage but if you are a white man no, no you are not. So stop trying to play the victim! Pretty much 80%+ of our government are white males, WHO REPRESENT YOU. Women do not have the same representation, rights, and freedoms as men. but you wouldn't know that because you are a FUCKING MAN!! you obviously can not see our oppression because you are blinded by your own god damn inability to view struggles that aren't your own or don not benefit you.

I just. I can't. These are my rights and I just find it appalling that there are REALLY truly people in this world that would take that from me. Its disgusting. Try explaining to your future daughter why she should be limited in what she does just because she is a woman. And I would like to see you tell her that the struggles that she is facing is not as bad as men, they are the true victims.

[Mysterioustruth]

You're so dumb and it's sad. I will name you the disadvantages that men face and after that I dare you to name me 1 disadvantage that women face. I'm telling you, you won't be able. 1. Women have a 2: 1 advantage for certain jobs. 2. Men have no rights when it comes to children custody. 3. After mariage, the man is usually heavily penalized. 4. Women have a better time getting into college since the school system favours them. (Linear system). I could go on and on. I think there is said to be 21 disadvantages that men face but not even 1 that women face. Name me a disadvantage that face.

[Anonymous]

I do not support the notion that feminism has multiple definitions. We need to look at it as a whole and judge it based on what it is rather than what we wish it was. It's dishonest to suggest otherwise.

Feminism is as feminism does, and there is no disputing the fact that what feminism has been doing in the western world for years now has been overwhelmingly destructive. If you call yourself a feminist, you're supporting all of what feminism does, whether you like it or not.

If you truly support gender equality and fairness, feminism is not what you should support.

[Ramiro1992]

I agree, if she wants equaliy she should not be a feminist

[samhradh_leannan]

This myTake has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting feminism. It has only to do with talking about it effectively.

[Salohcin22]

@samhradh_leannan
I admire Your drive to separate the issues and try and make everything as unbiased as possible.

[Opinion Owner]

@samhradh_leannan All the multiple definitions of feminism mean nothing. They have no value in terms of "talking about it effectively". The only thing that matters is what feminism does. THAT is the only thing that defines feminism.

[samhradh_leannan]

My point is that "feminism" does very different things depending on which type or sect of feminism you are referring to. Even if you are against all forms of feminism, you still have to admit that not all "feminists" behave the same way or fight for the same things.

[Opinion Owner]

Almost everyone in the western world supports gender equality. I certainly do. But we don't have to call ourselves feminists to do that. Feminism went off the rails years ago. Supporting it actually does far more harm than good in the quest for equality.

It's true that not all women who label themselves as feminists do bad things, but by supporting the feminist label they are supporting the bad things done in the name of feminism, which in my opinion is unforgivable in this day and age.

[samhradh_leannan]

You don't HAVE to call yourself a feminist to support gender equality, but that doesn't mean there aren't still traditional feminists who legitimately support equality and still call themselves feminists. To me, there are two ways to look at it. One way is that supporting any type of feminism- even traditional egalitarian feminism- is harmful because people may think you're supporting misandry and it gives attention to the wrong groups. The other way to look at it is that it's just as harmful for radical misogynists to hijack the term and turn it into something negative, and that traditional feminists have a right to try to reclaim the term. I honestly can see legitimacy in both of those frames of mind.

[Opinion Owner]

I would agree with all of that except for the fact that traditional feminists will never be able to reclaim the term feminism. It's way too far gone. Feminism has been trending toward sexist extremism for a long time now and that trend is not going to reverse itself. Feminism is never going to be "egalitarian feminism" again.

And let's be honest about the fact that feminism has always been gynocentric. It has never been accurate to say that it advocates for gender equality. It has always been about advocating for female interests, regardless of any injustices to males. Anyone who supports feminism today supports the false claim that females are oppressed and disadvantaged relative to males, and by doing so they deny or marginalize male issues. That is what feminism DOES, regardless of what it claims it does or what the dictionary says about it.

[Opinion Owner]

It's time to recognize feminism for what it really is. Wasting energy talking about various definitions is pointless and counterproductive. If we REALLY want fairness and equality for both genders, let's dispense with the dishonesty of feminism and turn our focus to an ideology the ACTUALLY cares about both genders. Feminism never has and never will.

[Ramiro1992]

and that is why lots of people hate feminism, me indluded. Your words have a lot of wisdom, thanks for speaking the truth abou feminism, the most pathetic movement that already exist.

[Ramiro1992]

I honestly think he is right, I don't find suprising that most of men in this forum hates feminism, I hate feminism as well, for the simple fact that feminism never care about men's issues and rights, and they are extremely sexist and they hate men and they keep going with the stupid claims even in the 21st century, you can report my comments all you want, but you will never cenosr the truth, I thnk it's time for you to leave feminism and join a equal society

[Ramiro1992]

@samhradh_leannan you lost a debate again xD

[samhradh_leannan]

You sure get petty when you're upset.

[Opinion Owner]

@samhradh_leannan To whom are you referring?

[samhradh_leannan]

To Mr. Ramiro here

[Opinion Owner]

@samhradh_leannan OK, thank you. And thanks for listening.

[Blitzkrieger]

If feminism wants to make women equal to men why dont feminists advocate circumsision of women? If 60% of all women in the USA would be circumsised they would be equal to men. Women have the right to genital integrity which men dont. If feminsim is about making women equal to men why do women have more rights than men? It must be that feminsim is about equality in name only.

One could argue thay feminism advocates the end of male circumsision to make men equal to women, but infact feminsim is not concerned with male rights whatsoever.

Men are several times more likely to commit suicide after being the victim of a rape than women men typically suffer more bodily damage than women too, do you see any resources available in society for male rape? not much because feminists claim that only men can be rapists. So much for gender equality. Fuck feminsim.

[Salohcin22]

you got a little worked up and didn't seem like you read the whole thing, but I agree with you. In fact I think it's extremely fallacious for anyone to call feminism gender equality driven. All the same arguments could be made about MRAs.

"Men's Rights Activism is a touchy subject these days, and there are many reasons for that. But one major contributing factor is confusion about what people actually mean when they use the term "Men's Rights Activism". Traditionally, Men's Rights Activism refers to the fight for gender equality and the belief that men should be socially, politically, and economically equal to women."

The thing is the exact same argument can be made for both sides, and no, just because feminism isn't called women's rights doesn't mean it is fighting for men's rights as well (it's not and never will).

So how then, can Feminism and MRA be both fighting for equal rights when they are opposed to each other? The answer is they aren't they are fighting for only one gender

[Blitzkrieger]

@Salohcin22 they are both flawed. They both have an ideology to them. Id say egalitarianism is the better option.

[Salohcin22]

@Blitxkrieger
Right. That's my point, and I should have mentioned that at the end but I ran out of space.

[Blitzkrieger]

@Salohcin22 lol i got the point still :)

[Ramiro1992]

you are right, feminism never cared about men's rights

[asheslee]

It is time to ditch the term! Why do we have to belong to a stereotype. Like it or not, feminists are Now commonly stereotyped. In addition, you acknowledged that WE ARE DIFFERENT! Why then, do our viewpoints have to fit under a label? Why can they not stand on their own merit without attaching a definition to them?

[heavensgift2girls]

They need to be under the same label to have any power. This allows every woman that identifies as a feminist to claim more people support her views than really does. This is something that actually happened to me.

Feminist one - Do you think women should have a right to go topless?
Me - No.
Feminist one - How dare you try and tell women what we are allowed to wear! Guys like you are the reason we need feminism!

Feminist Two - Do you think women should have a right to go topless?
Me - Yes.
Feminist Two - You just want to sexually objectify women! Guys like you are the reason we need feminism!

Feminist Three - Do you think women should have a right go go topless?
Me - I don't care.
Feminist Three - Oh! So you don't care about women's issues! Guys like you are the reason we need feminism!

If we assume feminism is a single movement, this allows any man to be viewed as the enemy of all women, instead of just being a person that disagrees with that particular feminist.

[Johnvp]

@heavensgift2girls

It's pretty sad when a movement's members have no uniform opinion. Literally any statement can be turned into proletariat-bourgeoisie nonsense

[G_Mars]

We certainly needed a post like this, there are a lot of women that did not get the right message from feminism (message which i agree with) and hate men. They think men is the scourge of this planet and we are the bane of this world just for sharing the same gender as Adolf Hitler or Osama bin Laden.

[Botchie]

@samhradh_leannan So what's wrong with calling it egalitarianism then? Why is the word feminism so important to you rather than just maintaining the beliefs of it regardless of the name?

[samhradh_leannan]

It's not necessarily important to me personally. If referring to it as egalitarianism would make things simpler, then I'd be on board with that. But we're dealing with an entire society and ultimately an entire planet. It's not simple to just "decide" to call something by a different name. That's where this myTake comes in.

[DesertFox11]

feminism isn't about equality, it is about trying to make women greater than men. my biggest problem with feminism in the west is that it isn't needed. women here are doing just fine. take a trip to the middle east and ask the women there how they are doing. you'll find that theyre incredibly oppressed and do not have basic freedoms. women in the west need to shut up and be thankful

[ProjectBaby1K]

The fact that there is division in feminism and groups of people have their own meanings to define that movement shows just how ridiculous your movement is.

Also, if feminism was what you claimed to be, men would see some benefits from it. But feminism bears no resemblance whatsoever to the definition you gave here.

[samhradh_leannan]

Not the feminism that makes the headlines these days, no.

[ProjectBaby1K]

Men never seen any benefits from feminism. Ever. Not just today.

Also there it has never beared any resemblance to the definition you gave.

[Kirah]

The biggest feminist organizations in the world *support* radical ideologies (such as NOW). And every time a radical feminist says something bad, those "real" feminists are nowhere to be found. There are almost no feminists who fight for men's issues.

Considering all that, it's not weird that feminism has gotten such a bad reputation.

[FakeName123]

Correct. Actions speak louder than words. I can tell people constantly how I am a pacifist, but if I go around beating people up then no one will believe me anymore.

[JuliaHarris]

There are 19 different types according to wikipedia. This ideology is fractured beyond repair in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Feminism doesn't have multiple definitions unless you view it 4 dimensionally. It has different definitions across time.

Anyone trying to use the ancient definition today, is to my mind, showing how ignorant they are about the movement. And why should I pay attention to ignorant people or cater to them? Even if we believe in equality of the sexes?

[samhradh_leannan]

People use multiple definitions. That's really not something you can argue with at this point.

[Opinion Owner]

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying idiots try to use the old definition and they can be ignored because... Idiots.

[Jager66]

pics.onsizzle.com/...re-idealistically-6386603.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqHv0xgOlc

[Anonymous]

so in that logic the REAL feminism claims that there is some inequality with women and men but the only problem is in the west, this isn't true at all. ITs gotten to the point where REAL feminists had to come up with myths like ''rape culture'', ''wage gap'' and ''violence against women'' but in reality, men face BIGGER problems than any women in the west does, but its all about women.

[samhradh_leannan]

Feminism isn't concerned only with the West, though. I'm not here to argue the pros and cons of feminism, more to discuss how we talk about it, but that's a point that needs to be made. Real feminism, or the kind that is still positive, is focused on women EVERYWHERE.

[Opinion Owner]

and thats the problem, you are focused on women ONLY. As long as you keep sprouting movements directed at certain people there will never be equality. There is nothing for western men to fall back on like there is for women, we are basically backed into a corner to the point where we are finally coming out on social media expressing our anger and we get bashed for it. You think men in the middle east have it good too? who do you think the biggest victim to crimes are in war? or in any other situation for that matter? MEN. just because other men do it doesn't somehow make the ones who have to pay for it guilty too. you think female mutilation is bad in third world countries? men go through the same thing there and HERE in a 1st world country. So before you go march for women think about all the other people you leave under the rug.

[samhradh_leannan]

Please don't compare female genital mutilation to the type of circumcision routinely performed on men in developed countries. I don't support male circumcision but female genital mutilation is on an entirely different level.

[Opinion Owner]

I can compare it because it is the same thing. do you know in the third world countries that remove the clitoris there is a male version that involves splitting the penis in HALF? also, all female mutilation is not extreme as you make it out to be. Just like all male circumcision isn't the same. the clitoral hood/labia removal is like removing the forskin.

[samhradh_leannan]

Removing the clitoris is the equivalent of removing the entire head of the penis. Removing the foreskin of the penis is the equivalent of removing the clitoral hood, not the whole clitoris. Female genital mutilation also often involves sewing the entire vulva shut and other procedures that can lead to infections and serious problems. Cutting half the penis off is certainly on the same level as female genital mutilation, but that is not at all the same thing as the standard hospital circumcision that happens in the Western world where only the foreskin is removed.

[Opinion Owner]

do you even read? like AT ALL? literally read my previous reply, then read yours, and realize that what you said was already shot down.

[samhradh_leannan]

The fact that you SAID that removing the clitoris and labia is the same thing as removing the foreskin doesn't make it true. So nothing was "shot down". Hate to break it to you.

[Opinion Owner]

you see, you just proved that you didn't read and what is funny about this is that even when I asked you to read over it, you STILL are acting like you know whats going on. you did this on another post too where you claimed I said something and just started rambling about opinions I didn't even have. Here is the exact quote to what i said. ''do you know in the third world countries that remove the clitoris there is a male version that involves splitting the penis in HALF?'' Now please do tell me, WHERE in that quote did I compare foreskin to cutting of the clitoris? Everything you said was shot down from the start. Sorry to break it to you

[samhradh_leannan]

I did read your comment, multiple times. But you're right, I misread the last sentence. I apologize for the confusion there.

However, you DID initially state that "men go through the same thing there and HERE in a 1st world country.", implying that men in the first world go through "the same thing" as female genital mutilation, which is how I got the wrong idea about your opinion on this.

[Opinion Owner]

it is the same thing. Its mutilation of the groin against peoples will as it removes one of the sensitive parts of the penis. I never said that 1st world countries had it worse than 3rd world, but it is the same humans right issue.

[samhradh_leannan]

It's a human rights issue, yes, absolutely. But there's a reason why severe genital mutilation in developing nations receives far more attention than routine male circumcision that happens in the Western world. It is altogether far more horrific and damaging. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't also fight to put a stop to male circumcision here in the West, and I have always supported that cause.

[Opinion Owner]

here's the thing, those same places that has severe mutilation against women the same thing happens to men there. Also, not all cases are extreme, as there are some that get their labia removed, so do we just ignore that because what we think is worse? this is why I can't stand things like feminism. It NEVER focused on both sides.

[samhradh_leannan]

You're right, that's a legitimate problem. However, I have to point out that nothing is stopping men from taking a similar stand against male human rights violations. Feminism does have a tendency to focus on women's issues, but that doesn't mean it is working AGAINST men (although, these days, it certainly seems to be at least some of the time). I'd say that we do need a greater focus on general human rights and less focus on feminism, BUT that doesn't mean taking action against female human rights violations is actually a negative thing.

[Opinion Owner]

''men from taking a similar stand against male human rights violation''

that doesn't make the problem better. people always think men need to represent for themselves, women too, or blacks, latinos etc. The truth is, this is just making things 10000x times worse.

[samhradh_leannan]

But it's true, though. There's nothing stopping men from saying "hey, let's not circumcise our sons anymore." The fact is, people are always going to have a better awareness of the issues that directly affect them or people like them. Standing up for your own group is an important way to make issues known and spread awareness about problems. I'm not saying we should all only take care of ourselves, not at all, but we do each bear a responsibility to be a squeaky wheel.

[Opinion Owner]

just because you are not a man doesn't mean that it doesn't effect you. There are mothers who also advocate for it, making them equally involved on the education of it. Just gathering a bunch of males together will make people feel like all they have is that one group, just like feminists feel like men aren't helping. If you had a son, I am sure you would fight for his rights just as much as a father would

[Opinion Owner]

and the same for me, If I had a daughter and I was in the middle east I wouldn't leave it to women.

[samhradh_leannan]

I never meant to imply that women shouldn't play a role, or that men and women shouldn't fight for each other. But, as I said, we each bear a responsibility to be a squeaky wheel about the specific issues that we have the greatest awareness of. I said before, I do stand against male circumcision, and of course I'd fight for the rights of my son. But if I hadn't heard from men, I might have never realized what an important issue it is.

[Mysterioustruth]

You never would have realize what an issue it is because you're an egotistical bitch who only cares about the rights of women.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth Where I live, male circumcision is common, routine, hygienic, safe, and touted for its medical benefits. Of course I wouldn't have seen it as a problem if I didn't know that there are men who wish they weren't circumcised. The fact that I'm now against male citcumcision after understanding the full picture clearly indicates that I do in fact care about the rights of men. If you hate me just because I'm a woman, then you're the one with the problem, not me.

[Mysterioustruth]

I don't hate you because you're a woman, infact I don't even hate you. However, I dislike your hypocrisy and your terrible logic.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth Calling someone an egotistical bitch is pretty hateful. I dare you to point out where I showed that I only care about women's rights.

[Mysterioustruth]

it has nothing to do with hate. It's exactly what feminists are. And if you call yourself one then that's exactly what you are. You don't have to tell me that you're a hypocrite before I know you're one. You came out listing female issues that aren't even real. Truth be told, women don't have any real issues. They just create some to make themselves victims. Name me one issue that women face.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth When did I call myself a feminist? When did I list female issues in the first place, let alone female issues that aren't real? Honestly, I think you may be mixing me up with someone else, because your reactions to my comments are way disproportionate. Take a chill pill. You don't know nearly enough about me or my beliefs to know whether or not I'm an egotistical bitch.

[Mysterioustruth]

When you come out here defending feminism, you are a feminist. So don't act like a hypocrite with me. Aren't you the trend maker?

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth The "trend maker" Lol what?

I'm not defending or promoting feminism here. If you read this take, you should know that. I'm making a point about communication and definitions, and hoping that both men and women, and both people who call themselves feminists and people who don't, will use this info to communicate better and make better progress during discussions about gender issues.

[Opinion Owner]

feminism isn't needed in the west anymore period especially when they have to make up myths like a wage gap to make it seem as if there is a compelling reason to fight for ''your rights'' I personally find that offensive when there are actual problems with males in the education system, crime statistics, lack of homeless shelters, abuse programs and overall unfairness in the legal system. feminism was needed, in the 60s but now its just a joke.

[Opinion Owner]

so no matter how you spin it, looking for equality in the most privileged gender while others suffer isn't right under any definition whether you be a radical or an orthodox feminist

[samhradh_leannan]

My entire point throughout this conversation has been to argue that feminism is needed in areas OTHER than the West. Man. What is with you guys?

[Opinion Owner]

and men are getting by just fine in the middle east? one example. FGM is a topic that is often brought up for women rights in foreign affairs. They claim that FGM is worse than a mans yet compare the most subtle male mutilation to the most extreme female mutilation. Some male mutilations involve splitting the entire penis, which is the equivalent for the type feminists are against. women are seen as property? who do you think are the first people to get killed based off the color of their skin, religion or speaking out? MALES. who do you think get killed off when terrorist groups invade iraqi, syrian and lybian territories? MALES. who are the ones who suffer the full fledged force of isis and are being killed senselessly? MALES. the syrian government has gassed both men and women. assad has tortured and killed men and women. saddam has killed men and women. Feminism has no place there either. Nobody gets rights except the government officials and high ranking military members

[samhradh_leannan]

I am NOT saying that men's issues aren't important too, and I think I've made it clear that I do care about men's rights and acknowledge that there are serious problems affecting men around the world. But the fact that we should be helping men doesn't mean we shouldn't be helping women as well, or that helping women isn't a step in the right direction. Addressing women's issues in those areas may even shed more light on issues affecting men. That's the only point I've ever tried to make here.

[Opinion Owner]

that is counter productive and makes no sense. ''hey both genders are treated horribly lets bring feminists movements over there and fight for one gender!'' feminism has no place in the modern world unless there is a society that has men who all have rights while females have none. imagine you living in a house and your parents treat you and your brother horribly. child protection services comes in and works on your brother only and gives him the rights in the family and undermines you because they are only focused on your brother. most of the time, that turns into resentment. There is a crime for that and its called neglecting your child. Now only if governments could be held responsible for allowing political movements of feminism take place in areas such as sweeden jermany and certain areas of the UK. we know what happens when feminism injects itself in society, and its poison

[Opinion Owner]

those places I named undermine the male population and it becomes unbalanced, and makes them miserable, angry and lose respect for a lot of females as they start to turn bitter. What justice is feminism going to do in the middle east?

[samhradh_leannan]

Well someone needs to do SOMETHING in areas such as the Middle East. If not feminism, then what? Look, I'm truly not here to promote feminism, but don't use it as a scapegoat for every problem.

[Mysterioustruth]

Feminism is a pathetic organization that should die off. I think a new organization should rise to fight for those women. However, again your a fucking hypocrite. You claim that you aren't fighting for feminism but that exactly what you're doing. Do you think you are smart?

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth I believe that feminism can potentially have some benefits in some situations. However, if we can make a new organization which will be more effective and address ALL human rights issues, I'm all for that. But currently, that organization doesn't exist.

[samhradh_leannan]

And when I say I'm not promoting feminism, what I mean is that feminism isn't perfect or a panacea. But just because I'm not promoting feminism, that doesn't mean I think it's always the devil in 100% of situations.

[Mysterioustruth]

Again trying to fool me. Not to be sexist but I've realized that any organization run by women won't go anywhere because most women don't have the qualities to bring about change. You don't get things done by whine and bitching. Secondly, feminism doesn't bring any good whatsoever.

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth It's absolutely sexist to assume that no organization run by a woman will ever be successful. And frankly, I don't see MEN doing much to stand up for the human rights of either gender. That was a big part of the conversation I was having here before you joined in. Men are choosing to circumcise their sons. So don't put all the blame women for doing an imperfect job of addressing human rights issues; at least we're making some sort of effort, whether or not those who are doing so refer to themselves as feminists.

[samhradh_leannan]

I don't consider myself a feminist, but I don't think it's bad that SOME people who do consider themselves feminists use it as a way to shed light on human rights issues. It's not black and white. Feminism is ultimately just a word. And that's the point I'm trying to make with this myTake.

[Mysterioustruth]

Who do you think legislate things. That's right, Men! I don't wanna talk with somebody who reports me because my arguments are to straightforward. Can I ask you a question? Why did you report me?

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth I never reported you.

[Mysterioustruth]

You sure?

[samhradh_leannan]

@Mysterioustruth I certainly have no recollection of doing so.

[Opinion Owner]

if not feminism than what? oh I don't know maybe a HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT? because you know, men are human too, with actual feelings and should not be put on some back burner because people like you feel that bringing feminism in other countries is just fine. why is it so hard to wrap your mind around a movement that does not neglect others and fights for everybody? you are acting as if feminism is the only option, it is a poor option and it is cancer to society PERIOD.. Its not making excuses or scape goating, as you can see wherever feminism has gone in the modern world it is causing problems. IT IS NOT a solution and it never will be.

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree with basically all of that, and I have never argued that men's rights aren't important. Jesus christ. You are downright exhausting to try to communicate with.

I agree that we should have a human rights movement, and that would be preferable to feminism. But the fact is, I don't see that many men taking a stand for human rights issues. Which still doesn't mean we can't have a human rights movement instead of feminism, but when the genders involved in a movement aren't proportionate, it's natural that the interests won't be proportionate. It comes back to the whole squeaky wheel argument that I made before. We NEED to hear from BOTH genders in order to properly address issues that affect both genders. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. That's just how it goes. People and organizations have a limited amount of time, manpower, funding, and resources, and those will go towards the issues that are getting the most attention and that people are the most upset about.

[Opinion Owner]

ok, you are hearing from both genders its just that when a lot of men come out about it they are ridiculed or ''acting like a women'' its not accepted so a lot of men keep their mouth shut. The media covers everything except male issues

[samhradh_leannan]

Do you think women never deal with ridicule, judgement, or even threats when they speak their minds or promote issues that are important to them? Honestly, the more I talk to people about these issues, the more I get the impression that men are total wimps when it comes to the idea of fighting for what they need. Women have had to stand up for themselves and fight for their rights since the dawn of time. We KNOW that we have to fight for what we want, or we won't get it. Men are like "Huh? Fighting for what I want actually requires effort and sacrifice? Okay, never mind then." That's obviously a vast generalization, but it's the trend I've noticed here on GAG at least. Maybe you guys just don't want it badly enough yet. Or maybe you're oblivious. But that's why I'm here saying come on, if you feel strongly about something, use your voice and help make that problem important. The only reason why women are where they are today is because we did that. You can do it too.

[Opinion Owner]

''Do you think women never deal with ridicule, judgement, or even threats when they speak their minds or promote issues that are important to them''

In the west? no. It is advocated for women to speak out. you have media outlets with thousands marching for you. The former first women michele obama focused on girls and constantly made programs for them. its hard when guys are also against you. women fought for rights back then by speaking up, but want you dont realize is this is 2017, not the 60s. Times are different, and now we live with a bunch of sjws where you have to be PC and speaking logic labels you as a ''fan of trump'' or anything of that sort. That doesn't make us wimps. It simply means that everything is not as simple as people make it out to be.

[samhradh_leannan]

Currently, yes, women in the West are encouraged to speak out for the most part, but that has NOT always been the case. And female activists to still receive hate, judgement, and even responses as serious as death threats in the current day and age. It still happens.

[Opinion Owner]

female activists receive hate for obvious reasons. dont try and rephrase it, just call it how it is FEMINISTS lol. its gotten to the point where you dont even want to say the name anymore.

[samhradh_leannan]

Exactly. Now that feminism has become what it is, pretty much any female activist standing up for a female issue- even a legitimate one happening overseas- is controversial. And that's the part that I think is really sad.

[Opinion Owner]

well thats another reason to completely abandon it and weed those sorry suckers out. just become a egalitarian

[samhradh_leannan]

I agree with you for the most part, but I think it's very problematic if we allow the problems associated with feminism to produce a notion that it is inherently bad to support female issues. And the fact is that the term feminism IS still being used in multiple ways, and the whole point of this myTake was just to encourage people to take that into consideration.

[Opinion Owner]

egalitarian includes females. not siding with feminism means you are not exclusive to one gorup

[samhradh_leannan]

I don't disagree with that.