I agree with you that third-wave feminism is counter-productive and the only thing it will achieve is creating equally ridiculous movements from the men's side like MRA, 'the redpill', etc..
@Transigence It's basically the same argument (fighting for more men's rights, allegedly, but you'll have a hard time finding any sensible argument or even mention of what rights this would include as you sift through countless posts/threads about how difficult it is to deal with all the manipulative/slutty cunts infiltrating society)
@Transigence I used to spend a lot of time on all of those, funny enough, on reddit. I was subscribted to r/MGTOW, r/PUA, r/theredpill, hoping to get some insight into the objective of all or those subsets of the whole MRA. I ended up having to unsubscribe from all of those as the more essays I read whose sole purpose was to pretty much drag all women through the mud due to the posters one or two bad incidents, the more I started to lash out at my boyfriend thinking he must be hiding having the same kind of mindset as the guys making those posts.
@kaylaS91 Well there's your problem right there. None of those threads are MRA threads. r/MGTOW is Men Going Their Own Way (basically marriage strikers), r/PUA are pick-up artists, which are basically pussy-chasers finding new ways to debase themselves and trick women into having sex with them, and /r/theredpill is basically a weird mish-mash of disaffected pick-up artists (particularly bitter). None of those guys have anything to do with men's rights. No wonder you think MRAs are a bunch of woman-haters. (There's a spate of anti-MRA hit pieces that basically go around pointing to every despicable person or group and say, "Look at those hateful MRAs!")
Try looking at r/MensRights or www.avoiceformen.com or Honey Badger Radio, getting in touch with intactivists (say, maybe neonatalcutting. org), the Honest Ribbon campaign, UK's Justice for Men and Boys party, Canadian Association for Equality, National Coalition for Men, and A Voice for Male Students.
@Transigence hmm.. Featured posts on a legitimate 'Men's rights' site: -Bettina Arndt on today’s sex starved husbands -Feminists Hide After Embarrassing Gender Diversity Test Results!
... lol. Sounds pretty trivial to me. I'm not sure how bashing women in 'gender diversity tests' will result in men being given any more rights. &seriously? Sex starvation faced by men? Sure, being on the same page when it comes to libido is important for both sexes. But.. what kind of 'rights' do men want in respect to that? Constant access to their wife's vagina or something? I'm still having a hard time giving these 'arguments' much credibility.
Have you managed to get past any of the article headlines, yet? If you want, I can dig you up some very relevant articles. AVFM has been in operation for like 15 years and there are thousands of articles covering a wide range of topics.
Did you gloss over "How do we define healing," "Men's suicidal life," "When anger is legitimate, "Boys and Girls emote differently, can we be okay with that?"
Give me a few minutes, and I will link to some very important articles, that actually make points.
@Transigence articles pointing out the obvious (men and women emote differently) are purely informational. Psychologists and neurologists have been aware of that for decades, if not longer. I'm still not sure how acknowledging the obvious is going to in any way gain men some more rights they don't already have.
@Transigence thanks for sharing more articles at how men think they'll gain some rights via being bitter af about the feminist movement. As mentioned above, I already know where to find shit like that. :)
What's wrong with purely informational articles? Are you saying that informational articles have no place in a rights movement? The men's movement is a counter-culture movement. The first step in counter-culture is getting the message out there, and getting the hidden facts on the table. You have to shine a light on the problem. There's plenty of this in feminist literature! The MRM isn't purely a "rights movement" isolated in a vacuum. All sorts of issues that men face that don't get addressed adequately elsewhere falls into the laps of the MRM, such as suicide, homelessness, and victims of domestic violence. Men have been around 40-60% of IPV victims for decades, AND WE'VE KNOWN IT (http://www. nowhitefeather. com/fiebert-bibliography-of-partner-violence/), but yet there are no DV shelters for men (and their children). Is that strictly a rights issue?
As for actual rights issues, genital integrity is a black-and-white rights issue. We have the right to integrity or we don't...
... legal paternal surrender is a rights issue. Here's some more: www.reddit.com/.../
Oh, look, it's that /r/MensRights I was telling you about.
But the point I was making is that the MRM has issues and arguments -- you're just refusing to look at them, and when you can see them you just say, "Well that's purely informational, and I don't see how that exactly leads to more RIGHTS for men."
Have you bothered to crack open any of these articles and actually read the body text?
@Transigence yup, I've read most of them. One is talking about how unfair it is that men get accused of rape because men get assaulted too. Another is talking about how family courts are destroying families. Not going to read anymore- my opinion is unchanged.
Now you're outright lying. You've refused to say what "a legitimate men's rights site" is, you've purposely tried to smear MRAs with the 'crimes' of others, and done every other thing to prevent yourself from taking an actual honest look at the MRM. You've also lied about the contents of the articles.
When I start doing this, I don't always know who I'm doing it for at first. Well I guess I'm not doing it for you.
"you'll have a hard time finding any sensible argument or even mention of what rights this would include" you mean like when they argue that male circumcision is immoral especially since its illegal to do it to women but not men thus they wish to have the same rights as women in that respect? Or how divorce courts are bias against men and this is why women get equal or better custody about 96% of the time while men only get it about 40% of the time (36% of custody is equally split meaning less then 4% of the time men get better then equal custody as opposed to a womans 60%)? Or how paternity fraud is perfectly legal? Or how women have the right to abort a child, abandon the child, or give the child up for adoption all without the fathers consent meanwhile the only options of reliquishing their parental obligations are purely based off of the womans choice, the man has no say in it unlike the woman? Or unfair laws like hermsmann vs seyer which declare that no matter the reason men owe
child support to the woman, in the case of hermsmann vs seyer it was a 12 year old boy who was raped (both in act and under the law) by his babysitter who sucessfully sued him for child support which he was forced to pay the next 18 years (despite the fact that feminist have argued that abortion should be legal on the off chance that a woman is raped because its unfair for her to take that child to term. Apparently the same does not apply to boys and men.)? Or the huge sentencing gap where women when convicted (wich is rare) are given a 66% lighter sentence then their male counter parts for commiting the same exact crime? Or how a woman can divorce her husband for any reason and still get alimony and childsupport from him (which men pay 80% of the time) even if she cheated on him, and the man has no recourse and is forced to pay most of his money to her? You mean arguments and rights like that? Which they argue for on a regular basis?
@Transigence don't worry. Complaints and incessant whining isn't going to convince me of anything unless there's some validity to your concerns (which I have yet to see any of).
Well, except for all the ones I just listed. Except for those you mean? Your not interested in fairness or equality, you don't care about the facts, you have an ideological belief and that's all that matters. I mean I get it, most people operate on this principle, unfortunately, where they take their ideology and treat it as untouchable, godlike really. But at least be honest about it, don't try to suggest your interested in facts or the truth when your clearly not, just be honest, you don't care, and move on.
@Transigence Trying but clearly failing. Though to be fair all feminist are the same, they are just sexist bigots who are adverse to the truth, they really don't care about any one but themselves. But I still feel obligated to at least try just in case I come across one that is just ill informed rather then a zealot.
@hellionthesagereborn takes a sexist bigot to know a sexist bigot if you apply your own principle. Thanks for trying and all the best on your crusade of self-pity.
So your admitting your a sexist bigot? How exactly did anything I say suggest I was a bigot? That I was sexist? I said their are many male issues that get ignored, you said I was a sexist bigot for suggesting that. Kind of proving my point that your being sexist don't you think?
I suppose I left myself wide open for that, but... well... I have a sex life you could only dream of. It's just so juicy and awesome. If you want to insult me, you have to pick something I'm sensitive about.
I actually liked a speech she gave once. She spoke about a gender free society, where we can speak our own opinions as individuals, free from gender prejudices. I guess that's the ideal.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(36-45)
+1 y
she's a idiot, because feminism is equality to men who are gays/transgender. (Feminism isn't equality to men straight)
Oh boo hoo, another butt-hurt MGTOW guy with a pointless rant. Got any evidence to back up your rant? No.
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0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
I find that Emma Twatson quote hilarious because it's men who are silenced by women when we try and speak up about men's issues, speak out against feminist hate, or generally do anything women don't like.
"Do women deserve equal rights? Absolutely." Nope. Women haven't taken on equal responsibility and men do not have equal protection under the law.
Women can deserve equal rights when: 1. They're subject to the draft. 2. Male genitals are protected from mutilation 3. Men have a suite of options to opt out of parenthood that is similar to the options that women have. 4. All court-mandated child-support ends (men and women obligors). That's literal slavery, justified with "the best interest of the child."
You can look it up, it's a pretty significant thing with her especially. She's been the subject of online harassment for years, and has become an advocate in a way for victims of online bullying.
Ok. I'll bite... and rip your bs apart on the only issue that matters.
Where, on your "equality" agenda is granting men the same sexual freedoms and abundance you have enjoyed for the last 50 years while encroaching on everything male?
Or does "equality" only happen when you want something men have, hmm?
Fun bits: No female will answer the question. They will attack every other part of this post and even my character, but they wouldn't dare expose the true nature of this "equality."
@HereComesDrTran111 I can see that you're full of bs ;) Women did not have "the same sexual freedoms and abundance in the last 50 years" (at least not in the whole world, especially not in religiously/chauvinist countries like the USA). Nope, equality is when men and women are completely equal, not just formally, but really, in every day life, without discriminating or discrediting women based on sexism. Fun bits: I answered your question, but it was not an attack on your post, just an explanation, and surely I can't attack your "character" because you don't have one :P
So you come back with outright lies. I didn't expect any better out of you.
You do have absolute sexual freedom and near infinite abundance of it. You have sex offered up on a silver platter to you every day while men kill themselves from loneliness. You have achieved equality and more in every aspect of American life, yet you will forever refuse to grant to men the same sexual abundance you enjoy and take for granted.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
44Opinion
I agree with you that third-wave feminism is counter-productive and the only thing it will achieve is creating equally ridiculous movements from the men's side like MRA, 'the redpill', etc..
How is the men's side ridiculous?
@Transigence
It's basically the same argument (fighting for more men's rights, allegedly, but you'll have a hard time finding any sensible argument or even mention of what rights this would include as you sift through countless posts/threads about how difficult it is to deal with all the manipulative/slutty cunts infiltrating society)
@kaylaS91
Sounds like you've been reading MGTOW and PUA sites to me, not MRA sites. Where do you find this stuff?
@Transigence I used to spend a lot of time on all of those, funny enough, on reddit. I was subscribted to r/MGTOW, r/PUA, r/theredpill, hoping to get some insight into the objective of all or those subsets of the whole MRA. I ended up having to unsubscribe from all of those as the more essays I read whose sole purpose was to pretty much drag all women through the mud due to the posters one or two bad incidents, the more I started to lash out at my boyfriend thinking he must be hiding having the same kind of mindset as the guys making those posts.
@kaylaS91
Well there's your problem right there. None of those threads are MRA threads. r/MGTOW is Men Going Their Own Way (basically marriage strikers), r/PUA are pick-up artists, which are basically pussy-chasers finding new ways to debase themselves and trick women into having sex with them, and /r/theredpill is basically a weird mish-mash of disaffected pick-up artists (particularly bitter). None of those guys have anything to do with men's rights. No wonder you think MRAs are a bunch of woman-haters. (There's a spate of anti-MRA hit pieces that basically go around pointing to every despicable person or group and say, "Look at those hateful MRAs!")
Try looking at r/MensRights or www.avoiceformen.com or Honey Badger Radio, getting in touch with intactivists (say, maybe neonatalcutting. org), the Honest Ribbon campaign, UK's Justice for Men and Boys party, Canadian Association for Equality, National Coalition for Men, and A Voice for Male Students.
r/theredpill I think is disaffected PUAs and masculinists, and hardline biological determinists.
@Transigence
hmm..
Featured posts on a legitimate 'Men's rights' site:
-Bettina Arndt on today’s sex starved husbands
-Feminists Hide After Embarrassing Gender Diversity Test Results!
... lol. Sounds pretty trivial to me. I'm not sure how bashing women in 'gender diversity tests' will result in men being given any more rights. &seriously? Sex starvation faced by men? Sure, being on the same page when it comes to libido is important for both sexes. But.. what kind of 'rights' do men want in respect to that? Constant access to their wife's vagina or something?
I'm still having a hard time giving these 'arguments' much credibility.
Have you managed to get past any of the article headlines, yet? If you want, I can dig you up some very relevant articles. AVFM has been in operation for like 15 years and there are thousands of articles covering a wide range of topics.
Did you gloss over "How do we define healing," "Men's suicidal life," "When anger is legitimate, "Boys and Girls emote differently, can we be okay with that?"
Give me a few minutes, and I will link to some very important articles, that actually make points.
@Transigence articles pointing out the obvious (men and women emote differently) are purely informational. Psychologists and neurologists have been aware of that for decades, if not longer. I'm still not sure how acknowledging the obvious is going to in any way gain men some more rights they don't already have.
www.avoiceformen.com/.../
www.avoiceformen.com/.../
www.avoiceformen.com/.../
www.avoiceformen.com/.../
(Just to get you started)
@Transigence thanks for sharing more articles at how men think they'll gain some rights via being bitter af about the feminist movement. As mentioned above, I already know where to find shit like that. :)
What's wrong with purely informational articles? Are you saying that informational articles have no place in a rights movement? The men's movement is a counter-culture movement. The first step in counter-culture is getting the message out there, and getting the hidden facts on the table. You have to shine a light on the problem. There's plenty of this in feminist literature! The MRM isn't purely a "rights movement" isolated in a vacuum. All sorts of issues that men face that don't get addressed adequately elsewhere falls into the laps of the MRM, such as suicide, homelessness, and victims of domestic violence. Men have been around 40-60% of IPV victims for decades, AND WE'VE KNOWN IT (http://www. nowhitefeather. com/fiebert-bibliography-of-partner-violence/), but yet there are no DV shelters for men (and their children). Is that strictly a rights issue?
As for actual rights issues, genital integrity is a black-and-white rights issue. We have the right to integrity or we don't...
... legal paternal surrender is a rights issue.
Here's some more:
www.reddit.com/.../
Oh, look, it's that /r/MensRights I was telling you about.
But the point I was making is that the MRM has issues and arguments -- you're just refusing to look at them, and when you can see them you just say, "Well that's purely informational, and I don't see how that exactly leads to more RIGHTS for men."
Have you bothered to crack open any of these articles and actually read the body text?
And just what did you mean by "A legitimate men's rights site?"
@Transigence yup, I've read most of them.
One is talking about how unfair it is that men get accused of rape because men get assaulted too. Another is talking about how family courts are destroying families.
Not going to read anymore- my opinion is unchanged.
Now you're outright lying. You've refused to say what "a legitimate men's rights site" is, you've purposely tried to smear MRAs with the 'crimes' of others, and done every other thing to prevent yourself from taking an actual honest look at the MRM. You've also lied about the contents of the articles.
When I start doing this, I don't always know who I'm doing it for at first. Well I guess I'm not doing it for you.
"you'll have a hard time finding any sensible argument or even mention of what rights this would include" you mean like when they argue that male circumcision is immoral especially since its illegal to do it to women but not men thus they wish to have the same rights as women in that respect? Or how divorce courts are bias against men and this is why women get equal or better custody about 96% of the time while men only get it about 40% of the time (36% of custody is equally split meaning less then 4% of the time men get better then equal custody as opposed to a womans 60%)? Or how paternity fraud is perfectly legal? Or how women have the right to abort a child, abandon the child, or give the child up for adoption all without the fathers consent meanwhile the only options of reliquishing their parental obligations are purely based off of the womans choice, the man has no say in it unlike the woman? Or unfair laws like hermsmann vs seyer which declare that no matter the reason men owe
child support to the woman, in the case of hermsmann vs seyer it was a 12 year old boy who was raped (both in act and under the law) by his babysitter who sucessfully sued him for child support which he was forced to pay the next 18 years (despite the fact that feminist have argued that abortion should be legal on the off chance that a woman is raped because its unfair for her to take that child to term. Apparently the same does not apply to boys and men.)? Or the huge sentencing gap where women when convicted (wich is rare) are given a 66% lighter sentence then their male counter parts for commiting the same exact crime? Or how a woman can divorce her husband for any reason and still get alimony and childsupport from him (which men pay 80% of the time) even if she cheated on him, and the man has no recourse and is forced to pay most of his money to her? You mean arguments and rights like that? Which they argue for on a regular basis?
@hellionthesagereborn I sincerely hope you aren't trying to convince kaylaS91 of anything.
@Transigence don't worry. Complaints and incessant whining isn't going to convince me of anything unless there's some validity to your concerns (which I have yet to see any of).
Well, except for all the ones I just listed. Except for those you mean? Your not interested in fairness or equality, you don't care about the facts, you have an ideological belief and that's all that matters. I mean I get it, most people operate on this principle, unfortunately, where they take their ideology and treat it as untouchable, godlike really. But at least be honest about it, don't try to suggest your interested in facts or the truth when your clearly not, just be honest, you don't care, and move on.
@Transigence Trying but clearly failing. Though to be fair all feminist are the same, they are just sexist bigots who are adverse to the truth, they really don't care about any one but themselves. But I still feel obligated to at least try just in case I come across one that is just ill informed rather then a zealot.
@hellionthesagereborn takes a sexist bigot to know a sexist bigot if you apply your own principle.
Thanks for trying and all the best on your crusade of self-pity.
So your admitting your a sexist bigot? How exactly did anything I say suggest I was a bigot? That I was sexist? I said their are many male issues that get ignored, you said I was a sexist bigot for suggesting that. Kind of proving my point that your being sexist don't you think?
I believe that feminism destroys family and future of their children
we know feminism equality mens are gay/lgbt!
Feminism is just a movement for a bunch of fat ugly undesirable degenerates to get together and blame men for their own undesirability
Then why do I get SO MUCH DICK?
@MlleCake cuz you left even the lamest of lames get inside you
LOL! true dat
I suppose I left myself wide open for that, but... well... I have a sex life you could only dream of. It's just so juicy and awesome. If you want to insult me, you have to pick something I'm sensitive about.
Germane Greer was quite attractive back in the day.
To be fair, both Ronald MacDonald and Colonel Sanders are men.
I actually liked a speech she gave once. She spoke about a gender free society, where we can speak our own opinions as individuals, free from gender prejudices. I guess that's the ideal.
she's a idiot, because feminism is equality to men who are gays/transgender.
(Feminism isn't equality to men straight)
You don't really read about or interact much with Feminists, do you?
Oh boo hoo, another butt-hurt MGTOW guy with a pointless rant. Got any evidence to back up your rant? No.
I find that Emma Twatson quote hilarious because it's men who are silenced by women when we try and speak up about men's issues, speak out against feminist hate, or generally do anything women don't like.
Do women deserve equal rights? Absolutely. That's what feminism should be about.
But like you said, feminism has nowadays somewhat turned into what seems like supporting your team and hating on your rival team. It's ridiculous.
"Do women deserve equal rights? Absolutely."
Nope. Women haven't taken on equal responsibility and men do not have equal protection under the law.
Women can deserve equal rights when:
1. They're subject to the draft.
2. Male genitals are protected from mutilation
3. Men have a suite of options to opt out of parenthood that is similar to the options that women have.
4. All court-mandated child-support ends (men and women obligors). That's literal slavery, justified with "the best interest of the child."
She says that, meaning women are excluded... except now it's men who try and participate in discussions that are shouted down for 'mansplaining'.
The strong and cunning will always find a way to prey on the weak and naive. One of the trending ways is feminism.
The results of feminism is why millions of men are deciding to go their own way, hints MGTOW.
Lauren Mayberry is an amazing singer first of all so don't torch her so quickly now lol. She's been harassed a lot on the internet
Why did I say first of all? Forget about that lol
lol what exactly has been said to her that's so heinous. all the guy at the concert said was "marry me" and she made it awk...
You can look it up, it's a pretty significant thing with her especially. She's been the subject of online harassment for years, and has become an advocate in a way for victims of online bullying.
I know of this chick cuz I'm a fan of her band.
Plus she already is married
Sorry not married was thinking of someone else
Dude, that's feminazism, not feminism.
Same shit.
@BraveHeart97 It's not the same:
i1.wp.com/.../feminist-feminazi1.jpg
i0.kym-cdn.com/.../fe7.jpg
thexidentity.files.wordpress.com/.../misandrist.png
rationallycorrect.files.wordpress.com/.../...9.jpg
thexidentity.files.wordpress.com/.../...able-2.png
Ok. I'll bite... and rip your bs apart on the only issue that matters.
Where, on your "equality" agenda is granting men the same sexual freedoms and abundance you have enjoyed for the last 50 years while encroaching on everything male?
Or does "equality" only happen when you want something men have, hmm?
Fun bits: No female will answer the question. They will attack every other part of this post and even my character, but they wouldn't dare expose the true nature of this "equality."
@HereComesDrTran111 I can see that you're full of bs ;)
Women did not have "the same sexual freedoms and abundance in the last 50 years" (at least not in the whole world, especially not in religiously/chauvinist countries like the USA).
Nope, equality is when men and women are completely equal, not just formally, but really, in every day life, without discriminating or discrediting women based on sexism.
Fun bits: I answered your question, but it was not an attack on your post, just an explanation, and surely I can't attack your "character" because you don't have one :P
So you come back with outright lies. I didn't expect any better out of you.
You do have absolute sexual freedom and near infinite abundance of it. You have sex offered up on a silver platter to you every day while men kill themselves from loneliness. You have achieved equality and more in every aspect of American life, yet you will forever refuse to grant to men the same sexual abundance you enjoy and take for granted.
Your face has become the code word for male hatred.
That Emma Watson is a brainwashed Muppet. Most of them are at that age.
"Bleached muppet."
I agree. I've been saying that shit for years.
The topic of Feminism has been done to death.
yet still we have to talk about it because people refuse to listen.
Do you think this is idle entertainment?
I don't feel hated by feminists.
I feel more hatred from anti feminists.
As a feminist, Jacques, I adore you.
you pose no threat to them is why...
Yes, it is. It always has sense the beginning of it