Feminism Truly Has Become a Codeword for Male Hatred

[pavlove]

Shut up Emma Watson...

I know there are a lot of takes on this subject but this is crazy. How are their entire careers devoted to this? How is everything a guy says taken to the extreme of harassment? I just read an article with a singer named Mayberry freaking out a male fan for saying marry me at her concert. The article was titled "singer puts man in his place." His place? He was kinder than I ever would have been and is obviously just a fan who meant to say I like your music.

It's not about female equality so we should just stop pretending it is. It's an insult to the pain and suffering women of previous generations endured for actual equality

This is straight up profiteering off of male hatred. Some female reality star the other day got huge press for being stalked (lots of women who aren't famous get stalked too...) and for saying how it was a really scary situation and that young girls should not be scared when they are being stalked (fear is a natural response to danger) I saw a blip of Ariana Grande going off about everyone is always telling her to look pretty and get her instagram likes up and how she doesn't care about any of that and does her. Even though she's never been photographed without make up and has the most likes on a single picture ever on Instagram.

My point is women are making money off of some fake threat that men are supposedly posing to them. There are creeps but they do not rep the majority of men and we men are sick of being treated as creeps and hearing women "empower" themselves always at our expense. You do realize you can empower yourself without bringing us into it? You realize empowerment has to do with self and not with victimhood and poor you, shut up we are tired of hearing it.

Not all women are propping this fraud movement in fact most aren't but somehow mainstream society is still with this women deserve infinite props for being born with a vagina.

This is crazy. Am I the only one who sees this?

[ADFSDF1996]

There was a poll not that long ago that showed most people here in the US don't consider themselves feminists. Feminists are actually in a minority. I agree though, third wave feminism has to end. I've said this many times but I'll say it again, what people need is Egalitarianism which values both sexes not just one.

[Transigence]

There's been another one for 2017 and it's down to overall 18%, down like 3% from 2015. At the rate the collapse of feminism is accelerating, I think we can look forward to feminism being about as popular as the KKK in less than 10 years.

[Elarra]

Woman's quote: "How can we effect change in the world when only half of it is invited or feel welcome to participate in the conversation?"

Immediate male response: "Shut up Emma Watson..."

You do realize that you just proved her point without even getting into the Take yet, right?

[pavlove]

but its not true! only in this specific instance is it true

[LittleLila]

His reply was "shut up Emma Watson' because her quote is insanely ironic and naive.

Oh, and also 100% bullshit. So.

[Elarra]

@LittleLila Don't see how it was ironic or naive if that's how she feels and how many women feel lol.

And it's not bullshit considering many women agree with her.

And regardless of why he said it, he still proved her point. Pretty sure if someone told me to shut up that it means I'm not welcome to speak or participate in the conversation lol

[LittleLila]

I'm not even going to reply to you. You're brainwashed.

[Elarra]

@LittleLila Replies by saying I'm not going to reply to you because... logic hahahaha

[Max_winner1]

When war comes be ready to step up to the plate because your feminism is earning you the right to be conscripted just like any other man forced into service! You wanted equal rights as men well then you should be able to fight in a war just like any other man! That means being in the front line willing to die for your country!

[Elarra]

@Max_winner1 I actually never said I was a feminist. All I said was the he proved her point before even getting to the actual Take with his opening comment.

Also, it wouldn't effect me because I actually a disorder that prevents me from joining the armed forces anyway.

[hellionthesagereborn]

feminism has always been about female privilege. Historically women where not oppressed, thats an absurd notion don't you think? To claim that in a society where men where legally responsible for the well being of their wives, economimcally responsible to the point of being put in jail if they could not pay their wives debt, to be legally responsible for them to the point where a woman was allowed to divorce her husband simply because she felt he couldn't provide for her and as a result even though they where no longer married he was still expected to provide for her (alimony) for the rest of his life or how seduction laws made it that if a man had sex with a woman all she had to do was claim that she thought the man was going to marry her resulting in the man going to prison for two years (for "corrupting" her) or how the law made it that any man who caught his wife cheating could sue. . . her lover for lost wages that he accrued during the length of the affair (and of course the man going to prison after payin this debt and the woman suffering no negative recourse under the law), isn't it inaccurate to claim that women where oppressed? I mean they couldn't vote but neither could men. However for all of history it was men who had the government tell them to go to war, to form bucket brigades and rescue parties during fires, to help in the restraining of criminals and the formation of posses for the police. In fact this is why women got the right to vote 67 years after men, because women actively fought it becaues they didn't want these responsibilities (men argued that they contributed to the running of the government and country through these services and thus should have the right to have a say in how things operate as it was their lives on the line). So no, feminism hasn't become codeword for male hatred, its always been that way, feminist just happen to have their hands in the educational system and have convinced people (by having the biggest microphone (education, media, hollywood)) that women where some how victims even as men died so that women could live.

[Transigence]

Aww, one poor leaf, blowing helplessly in the wind, was made to feel bad by your words. She couldn't muster the strength to explain herself, though.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Transigence yep, that's generally how it works.

[Anonymous]

It hasn't. You're not following actual feminism, and you don't know anything about it.

We have made a huge point to explain we don't hate men. We love our husbands, our sons, members of our community - we legit do not hate all men, and we are not "against men".

We are just "for ourselves", we are not shy about it, we are not always nice about it. But this is not women vs men where only one can prevail.

Feminism is men and women of all kinds working to dismantle systems that maintain gendered bias - the patriarchy. Men and women uphold patriarchal norms. We're not against them, as people, we are against systems that keep us from achieving full equality in the world. We want EVERYONE to have happiness, fulfillment, success and every good thing they earn by skill, talent and hardwork. We want people to be able to determine their own paths in life free of inappropriate obstructions to progress.

Feminists don't hate men, as a group, though you may find a small number of us who have hate as individuals. But that isn't the belief of feminism. We don't believe women are superior - that flies in the face of everything we stand for. We are deeply and enduringly committed to the concept that gender has nothing to with a person's inherent value as a human being so it wouldn't even make sense for us to think we are superior.

The problem you're having is that you're repeating 25 year old recycled Rush Limbaugh nonsense, that never was the truth about anything. But you hear it repeated so much that you don't even know how to recognize the truth.

[Djaaay]

But I do... And this perception is (indoctrination) .

[Jager66]

No True Scotts man fallacy.

Also it IS mainstream Feminism that is the hateful disgusting group of people, it is a very small minority of Feminists who are actually decent human beings.

[Anpu23]

The Patriarchy as defined by feminism is a myth, a boogy man that can not be defeated as it doesn't exist. Feminism has always been about rights without responsibilities, gains without risks, and power without any checks. Ever since the deceleration of sentiments feminism has spewed half truths and propaganda demonizing men and pushing for a hidden agenda. Many of the worst injustices facing men today are the direct result of feminist action (Duluth Model, Dear Colleague Letter, rape as defined as a crime against women, etc.)

[YHL6965]

This patriarchy theory is as relevant as the Illuminati theory.

[Opinion Owner]

@Anpu23 The Duluth model is not harming men. Men need to work to build their own damn domestic violence shelters if they need them. No one's stopping you. If it's an issue, go fix it.

[Opinion Owner]

This is really for all of you who have commented:

The problem you're having is that you're repeating 25 year old recycled Rush Limbaugh nonsense, that never was the truth about anything. But you hear it repeated so much that you don't even know how to recognize the truth.

[Djaaay]

Is that so?

[Opinion Owner]

@Djaaay You may have had other influences before the days of Limbaugh, because of your age. I'll give you that.

[Anpu23]

The Duluth Model was created by feminism propagated into police and other government agencies and states that in most cases men are the primary aggressor. This is in direct opposition to the studies own information, yet it has incarcerated many many men. Further recent studies have found that most domestic violence is initiated by the woman and in most non reciprocal attacks it is a woman beating on a man. As for domestic violence shelters in the US government funding is specifically denied to any shelter that offers beds to men, it is written in the bylaws of the funding documents. Again due to feminist pressure.

[cth96190]

@Anonymous
Feminists do not hate men, you say.
Perhaps you have not been paying attention to the leaders of Feminism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzF-Q_ZEDg

[Opinion Owner]

@cth96190 Andrea Dworkin is ONE woman, and much of what you think she has said has been in the context of statements made by fictional characters in a work of fiction.

I never said there weren't individuals who hate men. I even know men who hate men. But hating men is not really anything we support in feminism. Many of us are heterosexual, love our fathers, husbands, male children and are not down on "men" in general. I know you really want to believe all we talk about is hating men because it lets you off the hook of engaging with what we are actually talking about. But when you become involved with our common discourse in America you will see A. We mostly don't talk about men at all. B. We tell man-haters to shut up because they are being counter-productive.

You can continue to believe what you want, but if you get involved with us, you'll find out you were told a lot of things that aren't true. And I don't mean just watching angry women go-off on youtube.

[Opinion Owner]

@Anpu23 The Duluth Model was meerly one way to deal with rising reports of domestic violence by women. It doesn't vilify men - it holds men who ARE abusers accountable for it. it addresses gender based reasons for violence against women. It is not all things to all people. Men who suffer forms of abuse are welcomed to be open about it and to engage in activism to create support services that uniquely address the needs of male sufferers of domestic violence. I would support that so hard you don't even know.

So, what are you doing as far as activism goes? Are you talking to your city council, local businesses, politicians, and national or local donors who would fund a project to build shelters for men in your community? Because if you are, I wanna support the shit out of your work. I'll spread the word.

[Opinion Owner]

And the Duluth Model is not responsible for how courts use their ideas. If courts are unfairly jailing men who were not actually abusing someone - protest THAT. Change laws. Work on the Innocence Project stuff as a volunteer.

[BraveHeart97]

Bullshit, anyone who can't see why feminism is toxic is either willfully ignorant or in denial. Feminism has been teaching younger girls and women on how to screw men over for years. Feminism is the reason why more men are becoming mgtow and why Trump is our president. Feminists were the ones who created this reputation for themselves. They only have themselves to blame.

[Djaaay]

I understand your reasoning for equality , but jumping on the scientific, politically correct band wagon of empowerment of other extreme feminist is not a good source of foundations to gang bang with. I believe in equality , but I detest a woman full of that lesbian_sexist biased devilish character and behavior. Furthermore , equality and feminism is not even sold at the same store. Using feminism to support equality is ( not ) the agenda of feminist movement. Equatarianism... is what you preach , feminism is what you imagine achieve it.

[Djaaay]

And this ( isn't ) a personal attack or anything... just putting out there like everyone else.

[Djaaay]

Equalatarism *

[Opinion Owner]

@Djaaay I get what you're saying. I really do. The thing is, you don't have enough exposure to the working engine of feminism - what we are really doing and saying within our organizations, so you believe things you are told by right-wing pundits. I don't blame you. It's all you've been exposed to.

But these things you believe about feminism as a whole are just not correct.

But please, do explain to me - like, give me some specific situation in which you think a feminist woman was taught to screw men over and what the circumstances were. I can talk about it more sensitively if I know what the situation was, and I am happy to hear you out.

[Anpu23]

I have read quite a bit of feminist work, I was raised by a 2nd wave feminist, I follow feminist thought, and study feminist history. I am certainly not un-familiar with feminism and it's core values. Yet we have much different views of feminism, and it's goals and structures. I suppose that to me feminism is political feminism the groups that effect policy, funding and legislature. The feminism that effects mine, and countless others lives, the feminism that directly impact my day to day activities, and what I am and am not allowed to do. Such as the recent article in LinkedIn that suggested that in order to lessen the pay gap we must force men to take advantage of flexible schedules and make them take more time off.

[Djaaay]

Yes I do understand all of it quite clearly. And feminism is a big lie from the devil. Feminism is diametrically opposed to the word of God. So knock your self out with the politically correct satanic ideologies your so faithfully believing in.

[Opinion Owner]

@Djaaay I'm a Christian. And I disagree.

[Djaaay]

I don't believe you...

[TheSniper]

I've got a crystal clear proof of how feminism is anti-male today. They coin terms like "toxic masculinity" which implies there’s a problem with masculinity, and teaching our boys and men that their innate wiring is wrong and stupid.
Ben Shapiro says- Midler and those of like mind are wrong to lump all men together, of course. It was male police officers who arrived to kill the terrorists. It is male soldiers attempting to liberate women from the depravity of ISIS terrorists. Males destroy, but males also build.
But in their effort to eradicate the destructive male tendency, the Left has pushed emasculation as a solution. While they champion the notion that women can do anything they set their minds to (true!), they simultaneously castigate men as the barriers to progress and masculinity as a condition to be avoided.
The goal of the Left, therefore, becomes to train boys not to become men. Instead, boys should be feminized; they should never be encouraged to “be a man.” That’s too pressure-filled, too nasty, too mean.

[Grimfangs]

Feminism has turned into a war right now, and it is because of solely one thing. Women with inferiority complexes and loud mouths influencing other women and convincing them that a woman is somehow inferior to a man, when in reality their roles don't even begin to collide. They are turning a natural cooperation into a competition and urging the women to make things even.
The sad part is, women who are actually strong and know about themselves don't even care about this. It's the ones the inferiority complexes that get drawn into this, and a lot more get such inferiority complexes because of learning about this at a young age. There is no hint of feminism where it is actually needed, and it is densely packed wherever it is not required.
In the end, what these feminists end up doing is dragging males down and destroying both the male and themselves in the process, instead of rising above and beyond what they think is supreme. If you want to fight, that's how you win. Anything else, and everybody is a loser. There are no winners. The saddest part is, real women realise this. Feminists don't. They just use it as a shortcut to feed their insecurities for the time being and relapsing again when it's over, instead of searching for something permanent.

[Underduress]

Feminism was founded on hate and remains hate based. Just a few of the founder feminist’s quotes emphasized----- "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms, "We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan "The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness... can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas) "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." – Sally Miller Gearhart "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins "The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood.------

While I am tired of looking at these quotes, they are still relevant because no renowned feminist ever denounced these quotes or feminists and I don’t think any feminist ever will with full identity.

[FatherJack]

& another feminist leader... Julie Bindel..." All men must be put into concentration camps & then shot !! "

[Shiningtempest]

Reading your post allowed me to take the first step of learning the truth of feminism today.

[RationalMale]

Ahh Emma Watson.

"But now Emma Watson has said she doubts she will date a British man ever again - because they are too shy.
The Harry Potter star said that even though men from the UK dress well and have good manners they take two months just to ask her out.
Instead an American will come up to her straight away and suggest a date - a boldness she finds attractive."
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../...-British-man-again.html

Oh and www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/.../emma-watson-un-goodwill-ambassador-for-women
""I remember on my 18th birthday I came out of my 18th birthday party and photographers laid down on the pavement and took photographs up my skirt, which were then published on the front of the English tabloids the next morning," she said"

Where are these photos? Can anyone link to them? Well, good thing feminist Emma Watson is taking a strong stand against the sexualization of women, and isn't one of those sell outs running around showing her tits off.
media.vanityfair.com/.../...er-march-2017-ss09.jpg
i.ytimg.com/vi/Vs1fS2mzTj4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Dale1982]

They just don't get hypocrisy do they lol. I've never read about one who actually gets how stupid they make themselves look

[Randomgirl284]

I agree mostly, today's day and age is tricky because the internet is full of uneducated people saying one thing and then some 13 year old who does understand believes it and spreads the word and suddenly everyone thinks something that is so untrue. There are so many people getting brain washed on the internet and feminism is one of the conflict that have come up and made to be something completely different and now instead of it being empowering its a joke. The people who don't know better are believing these lies that men think they're better when in reality its not true. And feminism is moving backwards because of all of this. For the woman who want to be respected this is so frustrating because you can't call yourself a feminist without deeming yourself ridiculous..

[MlleCake]

Excellent points.

[geraniumlove]

I agree, females are special because they are made to do things that males CAN'T do. Yes there are some things which it is a little ridiculous to separate genders but generally, males and females are different creatures who were made to do different things and there are no valid points to argue that science. As a girl, I feel a little embarrassed that so many feminists grow so defensive before a threat is even made by a male just to protect themselves. It is selfish and I think genders need to accept certain differences without getting too irritated by it. If you want to do something and believe you are capable of it, go ahead and do it, pursue it, but don't put down the entire opposite gender just to make yourself feel better and empower yourself. Feminism is ridiculous and so is any form of sexism really. People these are so defensive about literally everything. If someone wants to fight for something personally, do it personally.

[Wwwyzzerdd]

Feminism = Money. Pure and simple. Attempting to synonymize feminism with women's rights or equality undermines the actual progress made in these two fields. Saying feminism represents women hurts women because the negatives of the movement outwiegh the positives. The means do NOT justify the ends.

Feminism has been a blatant ploy to make money from women and women's groups for decades. There's the speaking fees, the books, the seminars, lectures, concerts, music: people have made an entire career off telling women to be pissed off.

Then there's the lies such as the wage gap or that men and women are the same. The wage gap doesn't exist when analyzed properly and we are NOT the same! There are 6,500 genetic variances between the sexes. Women are better at certain things and men excel at others. It's a balance, two pieces of a biological puzzle!

[pavlove]

yes, again i fail to see how there are so many careers devoted entirely to "correcting society to represent a more feminist vision" and why do people listen? Like you said its paid for by left women and guilty men

[Transigence]

No, Feminism = Power.
Money is just one of the vehicles in that pursuit. There are others.

[martyfellow]

There's a recent discussion of a research study that many guys are afraid to interact one on one at their workplaces with females working there, for fear of accusations of sexual harassment being concocted against them.

That's often the atmosphere these days! Yes, we're tired of that.

Naturally this is almost never directed at the powerful men at the company, who routinely sleep with the women and pay them off for it at company expense. Oh no, it's directed at the men without power to defend themselves and company many to pay off the women.

[LittleLila]

100% agree with this. I will never label myself as a feminist because, as a woman, I view it as a movement to bring men down, not raise women up. Women and men were equal 10 years ago. Now, however, I believe women genuinely have it better than men these days. And yet they fight for things like "ban man-spreading" in an attempt to degrade and punish men for literally having testicles, instead of true equalitarian subjects, like subjugation against women in the middle east or the fact that first world governments are completely one sided in 'man vs woman' cases.

[Browneye57]

You are correct. There are SO many problems with that whole like of reasoning. Sure, there are reasons for feminism, women taken advantage of, unequal pay for the same job, etc. But it's a small percentage of the norm, and the rest of it is just a way to hate men. Let them hate all they want - we don't need those women all caught up in that. The vast majority of women do not align themselves with third wave feminism.

What I get a kick out of are the staunch feminists that admit they still like the dick, and love to be dominated in the bedroom. Publicly they hate men, but sexually can't get enough. HA HA.

Or they're all 'strong and independent' 'till their roof leaks, or their sewer backs up, or their car breaks down. Then they need a MAN to help them. LOL

[Xi3s3r]

that's true, most feminism loves black with a huge cock.

[BraveHeart97]

"Small percentage of the norm" I would have to strongly disagree.

[Anonymous]

Those so called feminists want euqality when it suits them. Spliting the check in a restaurant? Beneath them. Demanding an equal pay to a man with a degree in finance while herself having one in liberal arts? It's men's fault they make less.
Boyfriend/ husband watches football with his buddies? What a disguising display of masculinity while they watch chick flicks and cry how horrible men are.
I'm at the point where I'm just so sick of hearing what these crazy and irrational women come up. Having my brother date one of them, I do feel for the men these days.

[Bezbozhnikustanka]

Neither liberal arts nor finance are legitimate. Finance is worse though, people who study liberal arts are just pretentious bellends, finance is evil. Investors grow rich because they buy shares in companies, workers make a product, then, investors get paid for the products the workers have manufactured.

[heather4N0w]

Iv seen a few of these feminist things and honestly i like that men are empowered and earn more than woman. I dont agree with calling us names but then again girls call girls worse things. Men are made to be the protectors and the strong ones and im fine with that... actually a huge turn on lol also woman need to understand that most guys are like animals they love teasing and being crazy so deal with it. If a guy whistles in the street take it as a compliment instead of shooting him down. Woman stand in front of mirrors insulting our own bodies and men are just trying to say hey your body is beautiful. We are our own enemies... Stop fighting for equality when its clear that we are and will never be equal!!!

[Evil_Pretzel]

In the words of the great Liam Neeson "I will find you and I will wife you!"

[heather4N0w]

@Evil_Pretzel lol

[Mahadav]

RASAYS You have particular components of your existence that might annoy you for a reason. There is a LESSON FOR YOU with this consideration. The divine is revealing to you an aspect of yourself that YOU MUST address and correct. There are no easy answers here. YOU have conditioned yourself with a VERY IMPROPER consideration. CELEBRATE FOR WOMEN. BE HAPPY FOR WOMEN. Constantly consider opening doors for other people at the grocery store, or Walmart or restaurants. IN FACT YOU MUST SPEND YOUR SPARE TIME BEING A DOOR MAN. Consider the word NAMASTE. It means "The Piece of GOD in me Acknowledges and loves the piece of GOD in you". You see, we are ALL part of the same energy creating experiences for itself. "The brotherhood of Man INCLUDES WOMEN. We Love YOU. We are RA. We are Golden. LOVE<3

[LadyTerror]

What's ironic is that you happen to be pretty anti-male but Emma Watson has actually stood up for men's issues on occasions.

68.media.tumblr.com/.../...w92vDV1rpdsi5o1_500.png

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...e3fb4f5eec.jpg

You really should stop pretending to care about your own gender. You've proven multiple times that you hate men!

[castratedwhiteguy]

Bullshit!

[LadyTerror]

@castratedwhiteguy so you hate your gender too? Good to know

[ADFSDF1996]

Emma is subtly shaming masculinity. "Heforshe" is clearly a gynocentric term used to put women before men.

[LadyTerror]

@ADFSDF1996 quite the opposite! She's speaking out against real issues that men actually face.

[ADFSDF1996]

She's been criticized for trying to make men less masculine. If she wants to some what decrease her negative reputation, she should at least stop using the hashtag.

[LadyTerror]

@ADFSDF1996 so encouraging men to stand up for themselves and for others is making them "less masculine"?

[ADFSDF1996]

That's not what she's saying, she's trying to destroy the traditional male.

[LadyTerror]

@ADFSDF1996 everything she's said suggests that she's trying to do the opposite

[ADFSDF1996]

It's not just her who has said things like this, it's been said by many third wave feminists and their actions have been the complete opposite of helping men.

[cth96190]

I agree.
I have learned to not speak to women, for any reason, unless they speak to me first. I have learned that when I respond, I must remain expressionless and choose every word as though I was defusing a bomb.
I have learned to avoid all forms of interaction with women whenever possible.
I have learned to not extend traditional European cultural courtesies to women, after being abused once too often by an insane hysterical Feminist.
I have learned that the only woman who it is safe to touch is a prostitute. A prostitute is unlikely to make a false rape allegation.
In the way that a dog learns to stay away from someone who kicks it, I have learned to avoid women as much as is practical.

[HereComesDrTran111]

I mean, sarcastically, I can only see this turning out well for the future.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is not about male hatred and thats a very self-centered perspective on it to be honest. Then again, its typical for defenders of any system of oppression to try to make the protest a matter of hatred of people vs the system they uphold and progress in society. Yawn. The lack of education of feminism here is impressive, given how much people have to say about why its "unnecessary." sexist dismissive bullshit.

It must suck knowing that we feminists won't stop or shut up and that what you say means nothing to us. We know what we believe is right and will continue fighting for it.

[Anpu23]

Feminism is not now, nor has it ever been about equality. It is a supremacy movement hiding in language of acceptance.

[pavlove]

You are becoming exactly what first generation feminists fought against. You're trying to stop men from being heard, talking constantly about how good you are, how bad we are, how apparently all of us are rapists, on and on and on. And of course you do because look at the way mainstream society gives props to you for being a "victim of male oppression" Real feminists would be ashamed of what you have allowed the movement to become

[Dale1982]

We been getting it since school. There was ryhmmes about girl being made of sugar and spice and all things nice and boys being made of horrible shit. No wonder we rebelled. It's a fucked up system led by fucked up people. From the classroom onwards it's one massive tyranny of control. Girls get favoured coz they're easy to control and manipulate, boys know what's fundamentally wrong and fight against it. Even as a boy I knew I was being indoctrinated in school, we all did. By the way nearly every fight I've ever seen or been involved in was started by a big mouthed bitch. They just act all sweetness and light coz they're cowards and c ant handle themselves but deep down most of them are manipulative, condescending, evil witches

[Opinion Owner]

You all sound disgusting tbh.

[Dale1982]

What makes you think anybody gives a fuck what you think

[Opinion Owner]

@Dale1982 I could say the same thing about every anti-feminists comments here, which I did, essentially. This is a Q and A website honey. People post their opinions. You dont have to care about mine and I dont have to care about yours, but I will comment if I like and especially if you're commenting on my post. So if you dont want to read my comments, you can skip your little ass on to the next, my love.

[BraveHeart97]

Typical feminist not allowed to see beyond her worldview. Then you wonder why Trump won.

[Dale1982]

Yeah touché and all of that bollocks. You sitting there in your wonder woman outfit with we are family blaring in the background? That'll explain the anon statements can't have the world knowing your real identity eh? The we part of your rants are a little optimistic, I've been with enough women to know most of them don't give a shit about each other. The only feelings they usually have for each other are spite and jealousy so this feminism movement you go on about is more like a trickle of piss than a flood. United in spite and hatred ain't unity at all. You don't even have the proper perspective. They gave you an imaginary enemy, us, imaginary problems to fixate on pertaining to us and imaginary solutions which is alienating you from us. The world was absolutely fine before. Feminism isn't about women rights its about driving men and women apart and lowering birth rates. Rothschild, that anti-human mutant, funded it. So my darlin, put that in your frothy mocha and drink it

[Transigence]

@Dale1982 Just wanted to chime in and say I had the same experience as you with school. It was a complete headfuq and I wasn't able to figure out which end was up until I was like 29, and at great personal expense.

[Dale1982]

@Transigence what her above doesn't realise, what none of them realise is this world's ordering principle is the capacity for violence, be it a country, a group or an individual; thats the only factor that separates the leaders from the followers, the slaves from the servants. You can debate me until your blue in the face but if I'm more capable of violence than you then your wasting your time. This feminism crap is as thin as a wet tissue paper there's nothing to back it up apart from words. The truth is if all men decided we want them back in the kitchen again tomorrow there's fuck all they could do about it. This is just appeasement to keep them consuming and paying taxes and giving them a sense of purpose, when the shit hits the fan again and they see how brutal the world really is they'll be begging to hide behind us. It's about time some of these daft bitches got a heavy dose of reality. In fact this whole generation men and women need a heavy slap

[Transigence]

@Dale1982 I somewhat agree. I do think it's appeasement, but it's appeasement of the most violent men at the top who are virtue-signalling to the women -- not a direct appeasement of women (by the reasonable, non-violent masses).

Also, I think that capacity for violence is quite important, but it's really not the only thing. You can subvert a person or entity that is both smarter and stronger than you if you are able to make a persistent appeal to their emotions and values, and confuse them into thinking what you want is part of their values. This is what some of the religious class have done.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Women are not oppressed, thats just idiotically stupid. How can you be oppressed when you have significantly more rights then men? You live longer, have your problems taken seriously, are never accused of wrong doing while men are believed to be monsters (just a while a go a man found a child wandering around with out her parents, he picked her up and started going from person to person trying to find this girls parents, at which point he was beaten and doxxed and accused of preying on children), women are rarely sentenced for crimes (30 year old teacher raped a ten year old boy, her punishment was that she had to teach with the door open.), we have court rulings that state (hermsmann vs seyer) that a man is obligated to pay child support no matter the circumstances of the pregnancy, hermsmann vs seyer was a court case where a 12 year old boy was raped by his babysitter then forced to pay his rapist child support when he turned 18. Women are not oppressed in any way shape or form.

[Dale1982]

@hellionthesagereborn mad America. Land of the fee and home of the slave.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@Dale1982 Where free, just not in the same way as women are. Most societies cater to women, in fact I would argue all societies cater to women. Its messed up but its part of our biology so its hard to escape.

[FatherJack]

@Dale1982 " Rothschild, that anti-human mutant, funded it. " Exactly , they control the lamestream " media " , so too many people still swallow their lies !!

[DonkeyRick69]

Funny thing is men are supposed to support feminism but any male rights movement or male issues events is protested and often violently protested against, feminist refuse to support anything that deals with men's issues through hate and because it diverts the attention the crave more than anything.

[MlleCake]

You know that feminists have fought for the right of women to be in combat position in the US military, right?

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake some have and some are opposed.

[MlleCake]

I don't think you will find many serious feminists opposed unless they are just generally opposed to the military and war.

I am a pacifist, but I believe that if there is to be an army, it must be a people's army, and women are included in that. The women who have proven themselves capable of the rigors of combat should not be prevented from serving in that capacity. Most feminists I know feel about the same.

Here's the thing about men's rights though. 1. It's not feminism's job to focus on them. It's ok if YOU focus on them, and I will support you, but these are issues men need to initiate action on.
2. Many of the talking points men raise when they are talking about men's rights are actually products of the very same gender restraints and expectations that feminists are trying to fight - so if we fight together, they will be gone faster.
3. We aren't "against you", but we may not understand your issues the first time we hear them...

[MlleCake]

... Just as women had to educate others about our issues, you will have to do the same.
4. OTHER things mentioned as men's rights have nothing to do with men having a right taken away by current laws. I just hear a lot about how men do not want to be made to honor their financial obligations to their wives and children. They paint divorce and child support laws as being against men, when what they really are is gender neutral and simply apply to financial commitments one already agreed to make - and they apply to women who are the higher earning, non-custodial partner just like they apply to men.

I am genuinely committed to ensuring fairness in laws, hearing all sides, understanding the impact the laws have.

5. But really, the thing I see the most is, when men talk about men's rights it's to take the wind out of a discussion of feminism, not raise important issues. And the men admit, very readily, that they themselves are NOT engaged in any activism to fix the problems.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake
Are you kidding feminists are opposed to any men's group being set up to deal with men's problems and rights. They've opposed men's shelters, talks on male suicide, fathers groups, men's social clubs, male youth organisations and so on. If it's not feminisms job to focus on male issues and gender equality then they shouldn't harrass men on these issues.

[MlleCake]

No we aren't. We just don't want these issues to be used as a way to derail an existing feminist conversation. Please, join a group like the Good Men project and start your own topics about how to help men in crisis in ways that uniquely and sensitively address men's real problems and pains in life. You'll see many of us support you.

And we don't value the work or opinions of sexists, nor should we, because it's an indefensible attitude, and it is not our job to play nicely with people who see us as fundamentally worth less as human beings.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake so join a group you approved of that feminists approve of rather than a group that is about men's issues. That's quite a sexist attitude you have.

[MlleCake]

Join ANY group that isn't specifically anti-feminist but is working on these issues in an air of cooperation. I suggested but one. There are many. I bet you I can find many others. That's just one I knew off the top of my head.

Feminism is pro-woman, not anti-man. But anti-feminism IS anti-woman, by their nature. It's an indefensible position really and I am under no obligation not to criticize it because it hurts your feelings.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake so feminism is pro women meaning excluding men based on gender which is sexist and not about equality.
Most men's groups have nothing to do with feminists such as the boy scouts.

[MlleCake]

We certainly don't exclude men. Many men are members of feminist groups. Feminism is focused on achieving liberation for women and other marginalized people. That's our goal. That's our job.

Many feminists lend a hand to other organizations that are not specifically about women. But feminism IS un-apologetically about women, and that is OK. We are allowed to work to achieve rights and societal equality for ourselves. That's a worthy cause and focus.

And it's ok for the Boy Scouts to be about boys. I think scouting can be incredible for some boys. I had budding eagle scouts as students when I was a youth pastor. Boy Scouts is FOR boys, and that's fine. It isn't "against" women simply because it serves males. It doesn't have any obligation to be what it isn't. I may object to some regressive philosophies held by some men in scouting, but overall I have no problem with it as an institution.

And I love to see men working to change societal problems that affect them.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake "feminism IS un-apologetically about women, and that is OK" which is discrimination based on gender. How about fighting to achieve rights and societal equality for men?

[MlleCake]

It isn't discrimination based on gender, because feminism is not working to harm men, take away their rights, or endanger their well-being. Feminism is not anti-man or about female supremacy or creating a society where men are oppressed as pay back or some such shit. The world has enough resources for men and women to be treated equally. This is not a competition where men have to lose in order for women to win. We all get to win. And most importantly, feminism acknowledges and promotes a worldview where men and women cooperate in all areas of life from workplace and education to business settings and political arenas. These are things we are deeply committed to.

We just don't think we have to put up with being treated as second-class citizens. And we think it's right for us to expose those problems and work to remedy them.

We don't stand in the way of men trying to solve problems that are unique to them. We support them inasmuch as we understand the issues.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake so promoting one genders rights and not the other isn't gender discrimination?
Women have more rights now than men espicially with legal protections, Medicare, reproductive rights, in the workplace and in education.

[MlleCake]

Examples: Women are mostly the ones who get breat cancer. In the 70s breast cancer was barely understood and often fatal. Women wanted to see more funding for research on prevention and cures, and other things that make battling cancer easier, because we didn't want to keep dying of cancers. We worked to raise awareness. People responded, and the money spent on research has benefited not just women with breast cancer, but men with breast cancer, women with ovarian, cervical and uterine cancer, people with any kind of cancer, children with cancer, women with hormone imbalances, even family pets with cancer.

Men also have cancers such as testicular, penile and prostate. We support research on these cancers. We support funding for research. We support cures. We participate in activism and awareness about these cancers. We hate to see the men we love die. We don't stand in the way of activism for these cancers.

But at the breast cancer rally, it's ok for us to focus on breast cancer.

[MlleCake]

We have one and only one more right than men have in reproductive matters and that is the right to abort - and that's just the dumb luck that women got all the uteruses. We didn't create that situation.

But you will be very hard pressed to demonstrate that women are actually afforded more rights legally in any way that is widespread. And I don't support it under most any circumstance that I can imagine. But look, if you find one that is well and truly a "right" given by law that is deliberately unfair to men, I am all ears. If you find it, I will post a MyTake essay on why it should be abolished. I'll even write to my elected officials to condemn the policy. Just provide me the penal code and municipality - in the United States. (I don't want to go foreign just because I don't know enough about their legal systems to be able to pen an intelligent post.)

Just find me one.

[MlleCake]

Oh yes, and please do tell me about the direct actions you are taking to support what you see as men's issues. And please explain to me the specific ways in which these issues are happening - like, show me the policies that Medicare has that discriminate. I'm genuinely interested in hearing more details.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake men get breast cancer too. College education is 51% female, girls do academically better than boys in school which shows gender discrimination as most teachers are women and men are discouraged from the teaching profession. Men are also more likely to be murdered, there are more men incarcerated, men get harsher sentences than women for comparable crimes, less likely to get full custody of their children, less likely to receive justice and protection than women when comes to domestic abuse and assault, less likely than women to be believed when raped and sexually harrassed and have absolutely no legal rights over whether or not they become a father.
In the workplace men are more likely to work manual labor jobs than women due to gender discrimination in jobs such as nursing, teaching and admin.
Men face so much institutionalized gender discrimination and sexism from women in today's soceity but soceity tells us that only women can be victims and men must "man up"

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake but then men have always been yoked to the plow to provide for others

[MlleCake]

Ok, so let's say I accept all of those without question for a moment. What kind of direct activism are you involved in to create solutions to these problems?

I think several of those are products of the same patriarchy we are trying to dismantle. not examples of women oppressing men, but that's just me. We don't need to debate it to make my point.

It isn't feminism's job to fix things for men, but some of what we are doing will end up helping men too. Just like it isn't the Boy Scouts of America's job to do all kinds of things for women.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake you can't campaign to fix those things without being attacked by feminists as sexist mysoginsts in a patriarchal soceity. To feminists mind anything that's pro-male or addresses male issues in society is anti-feminist and is attacked and campaigned against.

[MlleCake]

I hear you, but I believe you are missing an important reason the women are protesting these actions. It's not that men are working on problems they find important in their lives, it's that MRAs and related guys are using these issues as a context for being anti-feminist and trashing women, and in my experience, almost none of them are actually doing jack shit about the issues.

It's the same thing you hate about our loud-mouth angry man-haters (the tiny minority). And I don't blame you for not liking women like that. WE don't like them either and we wish they'd cool their jets.

Because of our discussion, I actually did a little research on domestic violence shelters for men and found some great organizations that are neither specifically feminist nor anti-feminist in nature that I could happily support. They are out there.

This is not a zero sum game where only one side can prevail.

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake so men's rights bad but radical feminists good is what your saying

[MlleCake]

Nope. Opposite of what I am saying.

I have said at several points that extreme man-hating feminists exist, they are a small minority, and WE also do not like THEM and wish they would chill on the hateful rhetoric.

I support men's civil rights, and I support men working on problems that are unique to them or need to be handled in a unique way for men. Totally, 100% support that and have actually done work on some of the oft mention problems you described.

But "MRA" specifically is a lie, usually. These are NOT men doing any work to solve the problems they perceive. They are almost always men who use the discussion as a context for trashing feminism, trashing women, while a lot of the problems are actually issues between men and other men, or due to strict gender norms that feminism is already trying to dismantle. If solving these issues is a priority, why am I never seeing any work being done? Why am I just seeing is used as a manipulative tool to silence feminists?

[DonkeyRick69]

@MlleCake in your opinion

[MlleCake]

I'm waiting to be proven wrong. Really I am. But none of these MRA guys ever can tell me an organization they belong to or specific activism they're doing that isn't basically anti-feminist in nature. No one has ever promoted an organization like the Innocence Project or any of the programs to serve men who have suffered from violence. No one is ever able to show me anything they have done to reform prison sentencing.

All they are ever able to do is tell me how much they hate feminism and feminists and we are causing all their problems. We aren't. We can show you what is causing those problems, and we can show you the work we're already doing that will have a periphery effect of helping men.

It just isn't feminism's job to be all things for all people. Men who identify specific problems that effect men will have to do the work to solve those things, and when they do, they will find many feminists who support them, and are even willing to help in the work.

[MlleCake]

@DonkeyRick69

I appreciate that we are having a sensible discussion here, and I thank you for the time you have taken to hear what I am saying. I am listening to you too. I am leaving to go to a 4th of July party, but I will be happy to discuss this more with you. Have a great day.

[Transigence]

@MlleCake Who gives a crap. I don't see feminism fighting for the OBLIGATION to be put on the registry or the REVOCATION of their franchise since they don't have to earn it the same way men do.

[Transigence]

@MlleCake You know that while you say that feminists aren't doing this, feminists aren't doing that, there are MOUNTAINS of videographic evidence to the exact contrary. Ask Cassie Jaye what it was like trying to get "The Red Pill" screened in Australia or as Laci Greene how she was treated just for inviting anti-SJWs in for a debate.

Sorry, but your claims fall purely flat. This isn't something you can just say, "Nuh-uh" and pretend it never happened. NOW regularly opposes equal shared parenting bills proposed by father's rights activists. Feminists oppose MRAs who oppose circumcision on the grounds that FGM is a more serious issue and therefore it's anathema to even talk about MGM. They straight up inject FGM into a conversation about MGM in order to invoke female genital supremacy to prevent intactivists from getting traction.

[Transigence]

@MlleCake Do you support a window of opportunity for legal paternal surrender for men?

[Transigence]

@MlleCake You want to be proven wrong? Watch "The Red Pill."

[MlleCake]

@Transigence No, I do not support men being able to abandon children they created because they just don't want to support the child. Child's needs come first.

There are many really easy ways to keep from impregnating your partner, and a couple new ways about to be approved by the FDA. Can't handle paying for a kid? Don't make one.

[MlleCake]

@Transigence The Red Pill cannot prove me wrong because they don't deal in facts, truth or reality.

[Transigence]

@MlleCake Do you support a woman's right to abandon her child?

[MlleCake]

@Transigence Abandon? No. No one has that right. Once the child is born, both parents have an equal obligation to ensure the child is supported financially and given an adequate level of care. There are many ways to ensure this. But it is an equal responsibility.

[Transigence]

@MlleCake Well as it turns out, that's exactly what she does have. Every state has "safe haven abandonment" laws that allow women to dump their infant at the nearest fire station/police station no questions asked.

My gripe is that men are held to strict liability for the creation of a life, but women are not. You say if a man has sex with a woman, that's the same as agreeing to create a child, but you don't hold women to that standard. If you did, the conception of a child would equally obligate the mother to see that "child" to term and be obligated to support it. But it's not a child if she doesn't want it to be a child -- it's a clump of cells. But if she wants it to be a child, it's a child that he is responsible for.

Here's the point I'm making:
A man hasn't created a child until that child is born. Otherwise, it's murder when women get an abortion. And if a man hasn't created a child, he ought to have the same opportunity to bail as any woman has.

[DonkeyRick69]

@Transigence exactly shouldn't the mother be forced to pay child support for the child she abandoned

[Transigence]

Yes, frankly women who abandon their children to the abandonment framework should be forced to pay child support to the state.

[Transigence]

And infanticide laws need to be struck from the books.

[Listening5]

They are putting men and women at odds, have placed us to fight and argue men vs women. Meanwhile they change the society as they see fit while everyone fights over silly things. Then to top it off, feminism has been used as a tool to destroy the family unit.
They are spreading hate, much of it and indoctrinating young women. Either way, our society is fucked up already.

[Dale1982]

Exactly right, it's just a tool to curb birth rates