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What I think is to first, for BOTH GENDERS, is to put clear in what consists both respect, aggression and harrassment.
Unfortunately we humans take things to how we got raised and to our convenience. It is true that there are Men Who treat women as inferior beings, like in other parts of the world or the ones Who hit, punish unfairly or cheat on their wives in some families because that's how they got raised, and women to put on With the aggression.
Also there is the other extreme, where women treat badly Men but some of them don't deserve it.
And in the trial there are both the people who defend the innocents, the real victims against the true agressors Who are also defended by giving them excuses for their actions.
I think the point here is to differentiate and see Who is the people who deserve the protection and support and the ones Who deserve the punishment. And that is for BOTH GENDERS.
I think it is a bit of a stretch that "man hatred" is connected to Feminism. A left leaning man is by and large loved by most left leaning feminist.
My impression however, is feminism is more exclusive with Liberal leaning woman than those woman that embrace Conservatism. As those views between them by and large collide.
I haven't heard feminist leaders champion any woman who embraces conservatism.
Granted there may be Conservative woman that consider themselves a feminist, even though many Liberal feminist struggle to embrace their ideology.
Uhh... have you read the Declaration of Sentiments?
@Transigence
Nope,, sounds like a long book,, haha
Bother to even Google it? It's a one-page document (the body text, anyway)
@Transigence
yeah I googled it,, dated 1848.. I know you have a point you are trying to make,, maybe you can share it.
That document is pretty much the founding document of feminism. Setting aside the clear objectification of men and women (Man has done this to Woman -- reification), it's wholly one-sided and mischaracterizes society, and it's very hateful. It would be understandable if the things said in it were true, but it's solid slander.
The point I'm trying to make is that feminism was never good. It was ALWAYS a hate movement. So it's not "a bit of a stretch" to think that man-hatred is connected to feminism. Man-hatred is baked into the founding document of feminism.
And that date is part of the point I'm making. Feminism is over 150 years old.
@Transigence
I don't think I ever suggested feminism is good. I don't nessacarily say they are overall a hate group.
I don't deny that there are those in the feminist movement that hate men and even woman who's views collide with theirs,, mainly those that don't embrace Liberalism.
Feminism and chauvinism are twin sister and brother, both of which minimize in a degrading and narrow way, their views.
Fair enough, that's extraneous commentary on my part. I'm just addressing the claim that "it's a bit of a stretch that 'man hatred' is connected to Feminism."
It most certainly is. It's fundamental to it (but it's not really the purpose).
@Transigence I can see hatred not just isolated toward men but also toward women who don't embrace the same liberal ideology as those feminist who do. Most feminist don't hate men who are liberal,, and there are many feminist who don't hate any man.
The feminist movement is pretty much one-sided when it comes to Liberal Ideology with very little tolerance toward men or women who embrace moderate to conservative social views.
And really that 1848 document you referred to, most that signed were probably more conservative than the current leaders within the feminist movement.
Certainly most feminist don't hate men, but the feminist doctrine is rotten to the core. Most feminists just don't know what feminism really is. They are the Marxist "Useful Idiot." They're good people, they've just been sold the seeds of hatred packaged as "equality" and "progress" and happily planted them in their minds.
The minority of feminists (red pill feminists -- feminists who KNOW what they're doing) are in positions of power and influence (education, media, government, industry).
@Transigence the seed may have been rotten to the core,, interestingly one of the signers was Frederick Douglas who was an African American who escaped slavery.
Cruelty, racism and chauvinism by some of this nations fore-fathers is what stimulated this movement to exist,,
Women in Africa and Middle East have things worse off than Women in America and the United Kingdom where they have more freedom of dress, work, marriage, and child rearing. We should pay more attention to areas that actually need it instead of areas that have already been approved first.
Women in the Western World have more freedom than they realize. According to how things were in the 50's and 80's, women's roles are getting better and have improved greatly-that was when Feminism was fighting for equality in men and women combined.
Feminists, NOT feminazis, don't hate men-we love men, are in great relationships, and are having the time of our lives with men :)
Annoyingly loud, aggressive, irrational man haters are definitely real-but they are a minority of women.
Women do not love or care about men. Nice try.
Sorry.
@HereComesDrTran111 welp, I love and care about the men in my life, strangers are neutral, that's how it is with any person.
i feel like the latter have taken over the movement
I like actual feminism, and not this misandristic shit. Yes, women have it hard on some aspects, but so do men. Feminism, from what I've heard, is supposed to be about gender equality, and not one gender having power over the other... that's what I call toxic femininity, when you work "so hard" for women to get respect and then turn around and harshly harass men. Hooray for you, Linda, but just because you're a feminist doesn't mean you aren't a piece of shit.
I agree, there are some crazies wearing the feminist hat that do some pretty stupid shit. But they represent such a tiny part of the feminist landscape.
Feminism is specifically about civil rights for women as a way to achieve gender equality. Female supremacism is not feminism, and is not what feminism is working toward. When people tell you otherwise, they are repeating a lie - they may think it's true, but it isn't. And you really only have to get a little bit involved in feminist organizations to realize it was a lie.
@MlleCake While I agree with everything you say, the issue I take is that none of the silent majority feminists aren't saying anything to denounce the crazies. This becomes an issue (if that's the right word for it) because if the crazies do end up getting any of their insane demands, only women benefit from it, which discredits the entire premise of what true feminists stand for. That's why people would rather be called egalitarian, in order to distance themselves from the crazies in the party.
@Botchie That was the point I was trying to convey, I guess? I support feminism as a whole, however, despite what my answer my say.
@Botchie We do denounce them. But because people are so sure that us reasonable feminists don't exist, that they don't hear us denouncing the crazies.
@MlleCake I try to search for and hear you guys. But I'm just one guy. I can't speak on behalf of anyone but myself.
Just out of curiosity, why do you prefer being called a feminist rather than egalitarian?
Hold up. FEMinism is for FEMales. It's right there in the name! EGALITARIANISM is for equality of the sexes.
But it is an impossible goal to ever achieve like the "War on Drugs" because there is no equality between the sexes. Sure women can go to work equally as men, but will men EVER have equally the same sexual freedoms and abundance as women? HELL NO!
So all the "equality" BS is one-sided! Women gain everything men had while men get NOTHING!
Bonus (for those who understand cause and effect):
Through this rampant abuse of men, new Elliot Rodgers' and George Sodini's are born every day. Cause and Effect. Tick. Tock.
People only notice the loud ones and everyone is represented by the loud ones. It's not really fair to judge any group by the outspoken crazy people. You got to look past that and see the majority quite ones and figure out there impact and contributions to see if it's a worthy cause.
'Become'? No, bud, it has always been such. Look at the bitches with the white feathers that shamed 14 year old boys into dying in the trenches of World War One. There's some privilege for you, eh, getting gassed and your legs blown off before you're even 15.
Here, take this microphone so you can drop it.
She has a point.. to a point.. But, you have to consider the possibilities at stake.. Females in politics and leadership.. The middle east practically hates women and will do anything to keep education from them. They will stop at nothing to make women look "dumbed down". They pretty much birth and raise the world we live in, why can't you appreciate? Men play a role but it's not right to let these living conditions persist.. especially in places they actually NEED feminism.
They don't need Feminism, no one needs Feminism anywhere at any time.
What they need is human rights for everyone not just a focus on women or you will get the same shit pile of problems there we have here.. learn from mistakes don't repeat them.
for fucks sake you dont live in the middle east, why do you need feminsim in america, you want to be a 16 years old feminist with no life experience then immigrate to the middle east
@Z-Spark I didn't say I wanted to be a feminist you stupid motherfucker, I said people need it more than america. And you're only, what.. let's see.. about 3 or more years older? You're a fucking idiot.
Yeah, actual feminism is needed there but what w cal feminism in our society is pure bullshitery.
23-16=7
more like 7 years older actually
america doesn't need feminisim at all you have more rights than most men who aren't CEOs of microsoft or apple
@Z-Spark 7 years old? The bonus years you spent shitting your diaper and playing at the monkey bars? Wow, some next level experience you have there.
you added nothing to the argument because you know iam right and you're wrong, have a nice day i won already and i dont have to keep posting.
I agree fully. I was only responding to feminism in america which has become so far removed from actually getting equal rights for women to now becoming just about male shaming females worshipping other females for being females
If you're discriminated against for having the wrong skin colour or practicing the wrong religion you can claim "Political Asylum", can you claim asylum if you're the wrong gender? Could every woman in Saudi rock up at Gatwick and demand asylum?
@Z-Spark No because I'm been busy. You're like a pigeon who shits on a chess board and calls it your victory, you have nothing to win.
You are the one who needs to shut up. Women do need to empower themselves against creeps and sexist men. I am sick and tired of hearing this "Not All Men" argument. Yes we know not all men are part of the problem. You can tune out and ignore these messages if they do not apply to you.
Unless you are trying to argue that threats to women do not exist AT ALL? I'd like to see you try that.
Tune it out like u just did, right? lol
@xmark76 Exactly!!
just so you know, some feminists are so terrifying, that they don't even care about how men feel, "female is the future"? hell na. Like wtf is wrong with som people. If you are fighting for gender equality show some respect for the other gender cause honestly some feminists are moe sexists than men.
@MrsBieber01 yep;)
@MrsBieber01 The scary thing is, and people keep saying, "But it's a minority of feminists, not the REAL ONES." But it IS the real ones. Yes, it's the minority, but they're the acadamicians brainwashing our children, lawyers and politicians, and media personalities! They're IN CONTROL OF SOCIETY. They ARE "the man!"
Sorry, but all the "coffee-shop feminists" who think feminism is just about equality, sorry. They're the "useful idiot," as Karl Marx put it. Their purpose is to engage in apologia and defend the brand of feminism while the feminists who are in control of society run roughshod over the rights and well-being of EVERYBODY.
@xmark76
I actually responded to what the OP was saying. You did not respond to what I was saying.
@Transigence i agree
And being hypocritical.
This isn't new. Everyone knows that it isn't fair to judge an entire group based off of one or a few people's actions. But no one gives a shit about the reasoning or logic. So suck it up. The rest of us feel the same way about one thing or another.
The difference is women are not being persecuted and having their livelyhoods destroyed and their rights taken away for the benefit of men. So, thats why we talk about it.
@hellionthesagereborn lmfao. Women have been persecuted for centuries. When's the last time babies were killed just for being born male?
America, 2017. Females are PROUD to abort male fetuses.
@hellionthesagereborn Yeah because the wage gap doesn't exist lol. Did you know the average male employee in the White House makes over $110,000 while the average female makes just of $70,000? But yeah, you're right, men are tooooooooooootally having their livelihoods destroyed hahaha.
Proud to abort male fetuses... obviously not or you nor any of the other butthurt males on this site would be breathing.
@Elarra Butthurt. Sure. Tell that to the next George Sodini before he blows your brains out. This issue is serious enough that men are driven to murder over it. But you couldn't be bothered to care, high above the world on your lofty cloud of female privilege.
@HereComesDrTran111 If by privilege you mean the right to my own body then yes, I will enjoy it.
If men are driven to murder over it then that just makes them dumb AND butthurt. I'm going to break a law to fix a law. Mmkay, because THAT makes sense lol
"When's the last time babies were killed just for being born male?" In Ancient Egypt when the Pharaoh commanded midwives to Kill Hebrew Boys at Birth.
@llorando Nice one, llorando! Too bad reality and facts mean nothing to females :(
It's almost like the ancients held women in contempt for good reasons...
First and foremost women where never persecuted period. As for the female infanticide your talking about, you obviously didn't actually delve into the topic to much did you? In china for instance its done because of the one child policy and since in Chinese culture the parents are taken care of by the son (because women don't get responsibilities thrust on them) they opt for males because they are a better utility. For historical reasons it was because a male could produce significantly more food then he consumed and if it got to a point where the family was getting to big and they had a female born, it was necessary for survival that they abort only settling for a male so he can be thrown into the fields to work so that the women could be made comfortable. So again, wrong. Then you go through out all of history, who was forced to fight in wars? Men. Who was expected to die in the place of a woman? Men. Who was expected to fight to the death for the "honor" of a woman? Men.
Starting to see a trend here? When a man is legally responsible for the well being of a woman to the point where if she find that he is not producing enough for her she can divorce him, then take what he earns for the rest of his life, how does one claim she is the victim in all of this exactly? When men are forced into posses, bucket brigades and war against their will with no right to vote (they only got it 67 years before women in the US and in England they didn't even get it until after WW1(the very feminist who demanded the right to vote also shamed any man who tried to get out of going to war, a war those same women never had to be drafted into). So yeah, kind of got that one ass backwards didn't you?
@Elarra The wage gap doesn't exist, we know it doesn't exist and its been proven more times then I can count. Their has been no evidence what so ever of a wage gap when one factors in, well the most important thing being having the same job (which feminist did not factor in) then the fact that men work more hours, take fewer sick days, tend to work holidays more, ask for raises more and drive further for higher paying jobs the "wage gap" disappears. the rest is based upon choices made by women. In fact women who are single make more money then men who are single. So is that evidence of sexism? Must be according to your logic. Also why do we never talk about the wage gaps that actually do exist, like how social workers make a dollar more then there male peers even though said peers work more hours, call in sick less often etc? Or in stem fields where women earn more starting pay because of hiring quotas (which of course discriminate against men both in pay and their not being male ones)
@Elarra? Or how women are 2x more likely to be hired for a teaching position for STEM fields then men? Or how female models earn anywhere between 10x to 100x more money then male models? Why don't we talk about those because unlike the women's "pay gap" these actually exist. Funny how that works doesn't it? Or how we are constantly being told that poverty is a womans issue despite the fact that 80% of all homeless are male, or how we ignore the fact that 97% of all workplace accidents and deaths are male, or how we ignore that almost 80% of all suicides are male, or how women get 66% less sentencing for commiting the same crime as a man, or how women get equal or better custody of children 96% of the time vs a mans almost 40% of the time (then factor in that 36% of the time its equal custody meaning that less then 4% of the time a father gets better then equal custody vs a woman's 60% despite which feminist claim this is some how not bias).
@Elarra Maybe after that we can talk about the court ruling hermsmann vs seyer which states that a male is always require to pay child support no matter the circumstances of the birth, this being a court ruling forcing a 12 year old boy to pay child support to his babysitter that raped him. Its been upheld in Arizona where a 14 year old boy was raped by his 28 year old neighbor, in florida where a man had his sperm stolen from a sperm bank by his ex, and in new York where a man had his used condom taken out of the trash can by his girlfriend who used it to get pregnant, all where sued for child support, successfully. While where at it why is it that women are oppressed in a society where paternity fraud is perfectly legal? That a woman can lie and extort money from a man without repercussion? Sounds pretty oppressive to women to me. Why is it that men have no reproductive rights in this society where everything is designed for their benefit?
@Elarra Or how about how men are still expected to sign there selective service card in order to vote, get a license, take out a state or federal loan, be elligble for state and federal grants, something of which women are allowed to do all without having to agree to the government getting the right to send you off to fight, kill, and probably die in a war. Hmm, starting to sound like their is a pattern here doesn't it? Oh and for the record even if their was a wage gap, which again there isn't (also really, men make on average $110,000 dollars despite the fact that national average is $50,000? Clearly, your getting your information from very reliable sources) then I still wouldn't see much of an issue considering that 80% of domestic spending is done by women (70% globally) so clearly, considering they "earn less" has not impacted their spending any. In conclusion, that was the most idiotic, ill informed argument I have ever heard.
I know what feminism used to be and I respect and admire it, but feminism today is completely different and it's disgusting. It's a sexist, hate driven bunch of dishonest cunts.
To you women who will say I don't know what feminism really is... fuck you! I know exactly what it is and I'm tired of you telling me it's something different than what I actually see and feel and experience every day in the real world. Fuck you for supporting it. Fuck you...
And there it is... the inevitable and predictable denial from pink Anonymous (36-45). Bitch, we are not "repeating 25 year old recycled Rush Limbaugh nonsense". We are reacting to the hared and sexism we experience every day from feminists. Such incredible dishonesty.
No dude, you're not crazy. You're absolutely right. Also, it's been very well studied, and feminism isn't a rights movement at all, but an outcropping of critical theory and a repackaging of dialectic materialism.
Listen to Dr. Jordan Peterson for hours, especially on this topic.
I agree that feminism note that we have equal rights has switched to a movement of reading female disadvantage into everything, which is kind of ok for a group focusing on female interest.
What is not ok is claiming to be in favor of equality for both genders. Feminism is super dismissive and even attacking social justice warriors and mgtow even though most of them have quite reasonable claims and agendas. Feminism isn't for quality. It has never been. It's about assuming women aren't equal.
Feminism is not a monolith. There are multiple forms of feminism, which can vary considerably in meaning from each other.
However, as the term "feminism" is often used on GAG and elsewhere, it's virtually always just a lazy scapegoat for insecure and unhappy men.
Why do people even take feminists seriously anymore? That boat has sailed on the seas of madness.
Just ignore it. It becomes useless if you just ignore it.
Women let the crazy types become the loudest and didn't bother distancing their movement from them. And you must clean your own house before attacking everyone else.
If people want to stand for something that has become a joke- just ignore them.
Not when feminism still has the power to create laws, and direct legal reform it cannot be ignored.
@Anpu23 without the support of people feminism loses all its power. When lawmakers see that there is no support they will stop trying to please them.
I think that it's too deeply entrenched in academia for that.
I'm all women empowering themselves and wanting more, but even like men, there needs to be a limit. We are human beings which mean if we as human beings can function as a humanity that like the dinosaurs we will become extinct as well. The only difference is, in the after life, God will judge us on our actions.
I think all sides are ridiculous
Feminism is parodying itself at this point
MRAs aren't really doing shit
MGTOW has great core sentiment, but it falls apart in part due to the fact that it's defeatist, and in other due to the authentic misogyny in some supporters
I like MGTOW, it leaves more rampant totty for the rest of us.
MGTOW could rape a great deal of sanity to this country if only they realize that the Civil Rights movement only succeeded through violence and the threat of much more violence. Women's only real power comes from vagina. Men's only real power comes from force.
NO! TYPO!
"RAPE" SHOULD BE "RESTORE" !!!
Damn it... humans are so wretched they will ignore the entire content of my message over a single slide text failure. I give up. You win. Destroy yourselves as you please... I won't try to stop you anymore.
A female singer told off a male fan for asking her to marry him?
The agony!!!
I completely agree. Feminists are the most sexist. But nowadays, people just want to protest about ANYTHING, just so they fit in or feel like they made a difference in the world.
Hey bro you accidentally picked the female silhouette default profile pic.
@HereComesDrTran111 What? Im a female, so they gave me the female silhouette default.
Lol no way. That comment is way too rational. Not a single lie or deception in it. So you're a dude masquerading as a chick.
@HereComesDrTran111 Oh lol! I thought you were trying to say I was a feminist for having that female picture! It's true though!! As a girl, I've never experience inequality. That's because Im your typical cute girl whose 22 and 4'11.
Im also a college student, and I see a bunch of people always trying to fit in and feel like they've made a difference in the world. I do have some feminist friends, but they're very high maintenance, so i feel like that's a self-esteem issue that they have. They also look up to the Kardashians, soooo... I feel like that says a lot, lol.
Lol bro! I liked what you said and upvoted you. Thought I would let you know you have the female default, but you already know. So if that's your angle, cool! Work it!
IF you ARE a cute female, 22, 4'11", I _guarantee_ you've experienced inequality. You just happened to benefit from it, so no problem from your perspective. But that still doesn't explain why you're still not lying.
The quote is right tho ""How can we effect change in the world when only half of it is invited or feel welcome to participate in the conversation?" male and female make a society but we never get to hear both sides just one or the other... and if anyone thought feminism was for equality just look at the beginning of the word (it stands for women) not both