Is Feminism synonymous with man-hating?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

[TruthBringer]

For what feminism is today, it IS about man-hating. Maybe the first and second waves had their merrits before the marxists took over, but any woman who identifies herself as a feminist today is either doing it out of peer pressure or she holds grudges against men. I've witnessed way too many (young) women who call themselves a feminist and yet don't know what it truly means. There is a certain 'Crazy' user on here who claimed she is traditional but also a feminist. This goes to show she knows nothing about feminism as the whole point of feminism was to shake the foundation of the traditional woman. And when corrected on her mistake, all she could do is throw a temper tantrum and insults. Which is a dead give-away that she had no solid ground to stand on, to begin with.

People here say it is just "certain" or the "radical" part, implying that it is just a small portion. However, the truth is that we've seen way too much shite coming from the feminist side.

The way feminism IS today as well as how it is perceived, any decent woman would do best to stay away from calling herself a feminist. I highly recommend reading this Take: 8 reasons why I'm not a Feminist! (From a Christian perspective)

[Lucina_Rose]

Love it 💕

[Bel88]

I really like the message in the second image. It's all so true. I take full responsibility for my own actions, and don't need to be "empowered". Feminists treat women like helpless little children who are all passive, and victims of the "patriarchy". It's ridiculous.

[MCheetah]

Feminism literally is a misandrist hate-movement when you study it and learn its core tenet is patriarchy, the sheet hatred of men for being "oppressors" to all women throughout all history. So according to what feminism thinks. So according to what its founders, Millicent Fawcett and Susan B. Anthony thought in Seneca Falls, New York in 1848 when first-wave feminism became an official thing.

I despise the ideology and how mainstream is so strong to adapt its misandry, so I really don't want to talk about it much today. I'm also sick of all the painfully ignorant people who know nothing of feminism; the ideology they claim to support, trying to play No True Scotsman for it. It's like saying "TRUE National Socialists didn't hate Jews; they just pointed out Jews' heteronormative privilege and how they need to 'do better.'" I don't even bother with these people anymore; actions speak louder than words.

[MCheetah]

Thanks for the MHO.

[PlacentaSalad]

I think the misandry associated with feminism has become more quiet over time as men have become more vocal about their own issues to effectively shutdown the whole "check your male privilege" retort feminists used to resort to in order to silence men from disproving the idea that being born as a male means you live an inherently easier life. That used to be the narrative of third-wave feminism. Now, it's more about "white privilege."

While the anti-male sentiments still exist to an extent, such as on Facebook and Twitter where it's normalized and tolerated, most women have also become educated at the same time as men have to realize that both genders need their livelihoods improved. There's been a lot of reflection the last few years in regards to both male and female issues, rather than the focus being solely on women like it once was. This is because women actually are equal to men now, that the flaws that come with being a male can finally be brought to attention.

I think a lot of misandry you'll witness comes from younger females, like teenagers, who spend too much time on the internet and are easy targets for the toxicity due to their being gullible and naïve. They are basically brainwashed (groomed?) by the women who do hate men, whether that be their own mother or someone on the internet, as well as the army of simps these ladies command to help corroborate the biased details.

Female supremacy as a notion does exist and these radicals will use the feminism movement to help push their demands and their sexism. The failure to eliminate this prejudice early on is why many people stopped taking feminism seriously, and I think feminism finally started to realize that making enemies with the supposedly superior gender is not a good idea if you want to resolve anything, as plenty of men still have their dignity and pride and aren't going to sit there and be demonized just for being men. So, feminism now is less about complaining and more about acknowledging that, yes, men have issues. And so do transgendered people, etc.

[JamesMI616]

Maybe to an incel or to the average person who was raised by the patriarchy. I feel like that's stereotypical oversimplification rather than a synonym. I was raised by strong women who would identify as feminists although they are far from radical so I was in my 20s before I was introduced to the ideas by a young lady rather than through the filter of the media or some guy who's convinced that any girl who doesn't immediately throw herself at him is a hardcore lesbian rather than simply not interested. This is a matter of perspective and I value the girl's in this case and take all others with a grain of salt to say the least. The first time she shared her perspective on the "Friendzone" made me feel like a Dick and instantly changed my perception of the paradigm. In short she said that the idea of a so called nice somehow feeling entitled to sex in exchange for his kindness and support is insulting and Fuckin gross. He likely had always been interested in her and either feared rejection or settled for just friends over not being in her life at all. It's common in young boys who may be shy or clueless when it comes to talking to a female. On the surface it almost seems understandable or at least justifiable at first. In practice it's bordering on predatory. The girl in this scenario is holding up her end of the friendship while almost certainly sharing parts of her life with a guy that she almost certainly wouldn't share with him if she had all of the information going in. The "nice guy" I used to root for and on some level related to instantly seemed selfish inevitably doomed their friendship as well as any chance of a successful romance. All while feeling like he's been victimized. Hearing this left me questioning my own behavior and attitudes towards women in every part of my life. I'm still a card caring member of the patriarchy but I've done my best to form my opinions on women from women.
P. S I'm far from fully enlightened and apologize if It sounds that way. Even the most well intentioned of us are clueless to why feminism is such an important issue. American boys are taught persistence. It took a persistent gay dude's advances to make me ask myself I had made anyone feel like that even once let alone persistently. Maybe feminists should hate men. All ladies have more reasons to hate us than to put up with us. Smh...

[ChrisMaster69]

No I don’t believe so, I think any named group will attract extreme views and those fanatical in their thinking.

I have met some of those who are extremists and pretty much the same as any extremists, tend to froth at the mouth at certain things and don’t really live in the real world.

at the counselling centre I worked at, we had to ask one of those working their to leave as most of their counselling was based on everything being the fault of a guy and not balanced, open minded or judgmental.

The vast majority I have met are very much not in to hating men, for example one I am friends with was very much a feminist and she worked (at the time) as a dancer in a gentleman’s club.

At school the girls had what would have been called a feminist organisation, they demonstrated for the right to wear trousers in winter and not just skirts 365 days. A lot of the boys also supported them.

none of them hated guys, if anything they were very much into guys and fully recognised that there were large differences, however some differences were pretty much down to ‘because it’s always been that way’

For me equality is needed, however it needs to be balanced, accept the positive and negatives of both sides, be realistic in its message and expectations.

The above I think could be applied to a number of causes seeking equality, racial, sexual, disabled etc.

[NamerOfStars]

No, and I think that may actually be part of the problem. Up until the 1970's or so, when you found yourself dealing with a member of the KKK, you knew *exactly* what kind of person you were dealing with, and what they stood for. That was their one virtue; they were totally unambiguous about their goals and desires. That changed with the rise of folks like David Duke, who claimed the whole thing was about "celebrating the heritage and achievements of white people", putting a far more relatable and respectable face on the movement. Feminism (which has a long intertwined history with the KKK) pretty much invented that trick; putting a socially acceptable face on a movement rooted in bigotry and violence, in an attempt to make it resistant to criticism.

Your typical modern self-described feminist has little to no knowledge of the movement's history, or even the actions and goals of its leaders. They simply assume it's for the good of women (they claim it's "for equality", until you point out how it isn't; then they fall back on the good of one group), and don't look too closely at it, since who would be opposed to the good of women?

[David_Kek]

To judge an entire movement you must judge it by its collective actions, not its words, and especially not the words of a few claiming that the others aren't "real" (insert member of their movement).

Judging the feminist movement by it's actions show it doesn't care about men and women's equality, it shows it cares about giving women as a group more legal rights and less legal responsibilities, and giving men as a group more legal responsibilities and less legal rights, 100% regardless how fair it is, and even in cases women already have more rights and and less responsibilities than men.
This is how it has always been from their present day activism for laws which treat men as second class citizens in cases of divorce and such, to the activism of the suffragettes that literally demanded men who didn't even have the vote themselves to die for their safety, while they themselves weren't offering any type of national service equivalent to military conscription in exchange for themselves demanding the vote.

Feminism has not changed, from the present day to 200 years ago, the actions in their activism have always been the same;
-demanding more rights and less responsibilities for women, and less rights and responsibilities for men. Equality doesn't factor into that equation.
Feminism is and always has been an ideological group of female supremacists, built on the lie that it's equality. Yes, feminism is synonymous with man-hating/misandry.

[David_Kek]

*"-demanding more rights and less responsibilities for women, and less rights and more responsibilities for men. Equality doesn't factor into that equation."

[Embarrassing123]

radical feminism - yes. Normal feminism - no. But there will always be a radical type of something: radical ideologist, radical jew, radical republican etc... But that doesn't ´ count for a most feminist and those radical feminists doesn't define what a feminist are. Feminism is many things. I don't agree with all feministic point of views. I sometimes think that feminism is a movement that tries to go against biology and nature which is meaningless. Just like getting angry on a man for looking at her tits when she is wearing a low cut shirt. Doesn't people know that all animals feels sexual attraction. It is natural animalistic behaviour. Rape on the other hand is not! the segregation of male subjects and female subjects is also evolution. Females tend to be more caring and agreeable while men tend to be more aggressive and visuelle which leads to biological differences in interests. However what we associate with feminin and masculine is socially constructed and can be changed, and because of that - i support that! I also support that mothers should get more support in terms of prioritizing work. Like equally distributed maternity leave, financial support during maternity leave and that the woman should not be associated with reproductive work alone. In that way - i am feminist. in other ways - i am not. I don't view myself as a feminist but i do share some feministic opinions. Cause that is what feminism is - it is a collective term of a whole lot of femnistic opinions - and luckily you do not have to support all of them to be a feminist. I hope that answers your question

[Embarrassing123]

And i can't stand when man-hating gets viewed as feminism and girl power etc. I saw a tik tok where a girl was proud of cheating on her boyfriend and texting several guys and all the comments were 'you go girl' and 'as you should'. A couple hours later i saw the same tik tok, made by a guy and all the comments were the the complete opposite. i believe that this kind og behavoir shouldn't be praised either way! I believe that feminism shouldn't be trying to make men and women the same or women being higher than men. I believe feminism is creating same opportunities for the two genders

[JohnK123]

Yeah Bc girls and women r able to do more than boys without getting hated on

[Embarrassing123]

@JohnK123 not at all. In some situations yes. In others, it is the other way around. Men gets praised for having a high body count while women will be stamped as ‘cheap’

[JohnK123]

“Not at all”
And then
“In some situations yes”
Confusing… ikr

[MJtheCoach]

Throw all feminist in Iran tons of work for them there

[Malgaran]

I think it's kinda funny the first time I told my sister what feminism was supposedly about she didn't believe me. She genuinely thought feminism meant man hating, cause that's all you see and are exposed to. I personally have never known or met a feminist who wasn't very sexist for example either. I used to talk to this girl who was a feminist who seemed like she cared at least about guys and she would claim and say the things I seen or heard was radical feminism. Yet I couldn't help but notice she had a lot of sexist views and attitudes towards men.

So in my country anyway, I never seen one example of a feminist who then wasn't sexist and/or.. honestly disgusting. I remember this one commercial that would go on TV here too that compared men with trash, to be thrown away, used and recycled when you got bored of them or when they had served their purpose. I know a lot of men kinda feel this way in society as it is. Men have kinda been cannon fodder for pointless wars for thousands of years for example. Anyway, the commercial was aired for several years, it was socially acceptable to compare men to trash, to be discarded like nothing. Had it been the other way around it would have never been aired on TV.

[Varanus]

Feminists are not a homogeneous group. Some fight for equality, and some lean toward misandry. Personally, I find the latter group every bit as disgusting and distasteful as misogynists.

I do think a lot of feminists are blind to any actual problems men disproportionately face. I mean, the suicide rate for men is >3.5x as high as for women. The grass is obviously not all green on the other side.

I believe in equality, and that means building empathy for what other people are going through, not looking for people to blame.

[Lucina_Rose]

Yea it's human nature to focus on one's own problems and other people's privileges. Easy to that than vice versa. In this case it's gender related.

[globetrotter22]

I know many people particularly women keep
saying “radical feminists yes but not traditional feminists no”. How about this. Let’s just get rid of the word feminism in general and replace it with two new words: one denoting radicalism and the other traditional.

The problem with radicals is they will never admit they ARE radical. In their twisted wordview they are either sociopaths or brainwashed zealots. But a truly crazy person doesn’t realize they are crazy.

Anyway as for the word “feminism”. Many radical feminists will just call themselves “traditional feminists” despite their rhetoric being pure man hate 99% of the time. The word itself is very political and emotionally charged. We need to get rid of it.

[Gorge95]

Unfortunately too many misandrists have taken refuge under the term feminist to disguise their hatred for men. Unfortunately it has made the entire movement look bad because many women also say they don’t hate men yet co-sign the statement of misandrists. They’ll easily say it’s a “joke” but most of the time they agree with such terms e. g “men are trash” or “I hate all men” or resorting to crude comments about his size down there, his height and ostracizing mens issues like depression, domestic violence or general self esteem. Those bullying tactics mentions are misandrist behaviors that so many “normal feminists”women use but when called out they’ll deny it.


That’s how feminism has been synonymous with misandry.

[Ehjoh1]

Beautifully spoken.

[Evan64]

In present day, it might as well be. It's very unfortunate too because from what I've seen... it's become so far removed from what it used to stand for. So much so that if I'm talking to someone and she's open about being feminist, I immediately tell myself to be careful and watch everything I say or do because it could be turned against me. Literally feels like I'm on thin ice with people like that.

In fact, I don't doubt that I'm going to piss someone off just with my response and they'll start droping i-bombs. Yet another reason why feminism is something I would've supported during the first or second wave... but simply can't stand behind now.

[Kaneki05]

That's like asking is cultural pride about hating on other cultures. Which of course is no unless you make it so by been racist and taking that pride way to far.

There is a thing called Scum Manifesto now that was made just to hate on men. Feminism was not. If you did any research into Scum Manifesto and Suffragettes you can clearly see a major difference.
Also just a interesting note most guys say yes but women say no, I think that say's more on men than it does women. And if your just saying women will just say No because they don't want to tell people the truth that it's just about hating men.. No the Scum Manifesto is pretty Bold and Loud and Clear with it's goals on that so are the women who follow that.

[Guanfei]

Today, it is. Not equality or anything, it's just a movement that attacks men and everything they might enjoy, benefit from, do, or say.
Men are the enemies and feminists make sure everyone knows that.
Of course, you'll hear that it's just a "minority of radicals", but those radicals are free to say whatever they want and they're actually heard by everyone, politics, medias and public. The "majority" is supposed to be different, yet you never hear them say a thing against the radicals.
Why? Simply because they agree. They just don't have the guts to say it themselves, so they let the so-called "radicals" say it for them.

[hi_it_is_me123]

No, of course. As a woman I want to apologize myself for these man-hating fake feminists. I know feminists who are married for 10 years etc. or who are even housewifes.
In my experience decent feminists dont get any plattform/voice-you have to be crazy to get the attention of media. I have the theory that they do that on purpose to get clout/attention and it works. I know a turkish feminist group who critizise these fake feminists etc and now they are cancelled/shadow banned. Politicians and hollywood just (mis) use such movements to get vote/attention

[hi_it_is_me123]

Whoever is against feminism/feminazism but pro mgtow/redpill incel/justify their bs is a huge hypocrite

[hi_it_is_me123]

By the way i ain't a feminist

[Anonymous]

I don't think that was the original intent. The original intent was equality. But as with anything their is always unintended consequences. The attempt for women to get their RIGHTLY DESERVED fair share resulted in them being in direct competition with men. Since anyone with a basic understanding of economics knows there's limited resources it has resulted in women siphoning off men's livelihood. Which is fine. But then these women don't understand why men have less resources to support them or at least contribute. This leaves women angry as they feel guys are putting forth less effort. When the reality is women push for equality has left guys with a deck that is stacked against them now.
Some women are starting to understand this and are acclimating. But the hard-core feminists remain and will probably always remain angry. Because they only understand what it is they want. Whether it's economically possible or not.

[Bel88]

The picture that appears under the question on the main page looks like a man in a dress.
Anyway, I have to say yes. Modern-day feminism is all about hate. I just see no point to it in the West, although the Islamic world has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to basic rights for women.

[VanillaSalt]

Because you brought up Islamic countries I wanna say this. I should not be afraid to talk to a woman for fear of what COULD happen. It is entirely possible that I still and help a woman with a flat tire and get arrested for assault. I’ve seen a story of it happening and the guy lost his job, was imprisoned for 6 months, was sent death threats… because a woman said it was true and even without proof he was guilty until proven guilty…

I would support an Islamic approach that steps on women’s right as opposed to what we have now. I don’t ideally want that but if one side HAS to lose Ide rather be in the winning side.

I see what our society has become… white vs minorities, men vs women, left vs right, people vs people… there’s videos of women being raped, old people being beaten, random strangers and children being attacked because they supported the wrong policies and people and everyone else just stands by recording. Disgusting society.

So I wanna ask a question. How do we deal with it? I’m tired of men being the ones who have to “man up”, “be the bigger man”, or just make the first move. Most of this younger generation of men don’t know how to be for various reasons like bad mothers and fathers and single parent homes. Meanwhile men are treated like the ones who have to pack mule everything or we’re not mean then we’re treated like sit for some men raping and not showing our emotions. If we spent all our time showing emotions work wouldn’t get done so I don't know.

I can’t speak for all men… but when I see women with the privilege they have in the family, which makes me second guess having one, demanding more rights… when I get treated like shot despite not being a bad person, and not seeing a single point to my life outside doing what I want because nobody else in society cares… well it don’t make me WANT to help or care about women or strangers.

So what do you suggest? I’m genuinely curious.

[Bel88]

@VanillaSalt I don't have any answers to offer, but I do agree that in some parts of the world society is going down the toilet.
However, having said this, I think you're exaggerating here. A man will not be arrested for simply helping a woman to change her tyre, nor would he be spat upon for holding a door open for her. Most people still understand the importance of good manners, and that's basically what most people mean when they use the word 'chivalry', but now even that word is being debased and demeaned by losers (incels and the MGTOW twats) who refer to men who actually care about women as "simps" and "manginas".
We need to stop hating each other. It's that simple really.

[VanillaSalt]

I unfortunately don’t still have the link but it happened. I had a link from 2 years ago that a man did go to jail for it.

Also I’ve been the guy yelled at for holding the door. It happened in a major grocery store. Imagine my surprise when I’m holding the door to the milk saying excuse me and she starts screaming at me “no you do not talk to me!”

I don’t need sympathy for what I’ve been through so I wanna stop you before you say something stupid like “I’m sorry you went through that but that’s not normal”. Not being rude just tired of hearing that. The fact is it happens even if you don’t see it. I’ve also been accused falsely in jr high of sexual assault. So both of these hit me close to home. How many people do you think defended and supported me during either of these incidents?

I know if it’s between me or her… it’s her. It shouldn’t be and it might not even be true but I KNOW it’s going to be her every time. This is not an acceptable way to maintain society and solid relations between men and women. And using terms like incel and referring to MGTOW as losers and twats isn’t helping stop the hate is it? Nor would I say the way you refer to MY concerns as exaggerated while once again putting the blame on both with a callout specifically against men at the end as… unifying.

And one last point to make. Kindness only means something when it’s given freely. When it’s expected it loses its value and simple kindness becomes overlooked and undervalued.

[Mofunfour20]

Just like it's "funny" to watch a movie where a man gets hit in the crotch. Society has conditioned women to laugh at a man's pain because men are the physically stronger gender. Feminism is an excuse for women to show masculine behavior. Most feminists can't agree to disagree during an argument because they're talking points are based on a womans emotions and not the facts that set our parameters for logic.

[bolverk]

No, Feminism not synonymous with man-hating. It as usual comes down to the feminist,

There are the ones that have a 'mission' to remove men for all points of decision making an to have men be ' softer and in touch with their feelings', and rant on about 'The Patriarchy' and 'The Wage Gap' along with a dozen of their other favourite buzz words. They are a grievance lobby who see every man a threat - Even the men who want nothing to do with them. These are tiny vocal minority

Then there are the other feminists (Note the small f) who just want to get along with men, not the same but equals, They know that the 'The Wage Gap' is a myth because Employment Law doesn't allow it to exist, are happy to work along side with men with little friction, most would not consider themselves to be feminists gut they will fight their corner when they have to. These are the silent majority.

[bamesjond0069]

Am i a feminist if i think women should have rights... rights to cook in the kitchen, to keep the house clean, to want and have children and have time to care for them. Women ought to have rights to obey her husband and wear pink and dresses, to be girly and feminine and celebrated for it.

These are the rights being trampled to make room for the right to kill her child or have experimental surgery to install a fake penis made of her thigh on her crotch.

I don't care about peoples rights to do wrong. The right to do right must always be unimpeded!

So am i a feminist since i care about womens rights?

[caitycat21]

Im a feminists and have no hate for men however I do recognize some feminists do hate men. I think that comes from a place of trauma though, a lot where hurt by a man in some way so that’s where that stems from. There are also non feminist women who hate men because of trauma so it’s not like a thing exclusive to feminists just like men who hate women exist.

[TruthBringer]

Sis, I don't really think you grasp the idea of feminism. Sure man-hating isn't exclusive to feminists, at the same time I can say that the majority of ACTUAL feminists today HATE men. I don't really think you know what feminism at its core is, you're just calling yourself that because you think it is the right thing to do.

However, you don't have to be a feminist to believe women should have rights. And it will only cause your harm by identifying as one. Because you may not hate men, but a lot of people will think you do. It is best to stay away from labeling yourself something that has thrown dirt at its own name. Just a piece of advice.

[caitycat21]

What you fail to grasp is that feminism is multifaceted meaning their are several different feminists that believe several different things.

Not all feminists are girl boss liberals

[TruthBringer]

Indeed, my message is simple: people will associate feminism with the bad side of feminism. So it is best to actually stay away from labeling yourself that. This is for your own best will. In the end, you don't need to be a feminist to want women to have rights. And especially at your age, it will be a very sad thing to buy into the indoctrination that gave birth to misandry. It really is no better than misogynists.

[caitycat21]

Misandry is different than misogyny. Both are bad but misandry is literally a byproduct of misogyny

[TruthBringer]

Funny, the same thing can be said that misogyny is a byproduct of misandry. You really do not see the major flaw in your judgment. It seems that the brainwashing did you well. Shame.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Have you ever picked up a history book?

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue Yes I have, and did some more research beyond that, thanks for asking.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Not well enough then

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue Go ahead and prove me wrong about anything. Would love to see how far the horizons are of your knowledge.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer You haven't stated anything right, its just a bunch of opinions mixed in with inaccurate facts

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue And here you are failing once again by elaborating with factual counter arguments. I actually did make statements which is that today's feminism is driven by a man-hating agenda as well as many people who identify themselves as feminists (like yourselves) don't actually truly know the ideology which you're subscribing to. You do it because it sounds cool or it is out of political correctness.

"its just a bunch of opinions mixed in with inaccurate facts"
Funny, because at this point you're basically pushing your own behavior towards me. You basically coming at me with your own opinions. What was that term again? Projection.

If you cannot come with factual counter arguments, better not respond at all. Claiming someone is wrong without proper elaboration doesn't make that person actually wrong.

[caitycat21]

I don’t understand why you expect her to make an elaborate argument when you never even made an argument to begin with. You’re literally just arguing optics which is useless

[TruthBringer]

I'm starting to suspect you two are the same user to be honest. Same arguments and replies within a very short period of time. You also look very familiar picturewise and I believe I've seen you on another account as well. Cannot remember the name though. Anyway, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt. I actually did make a point. And that point was why it is bad to identify as a feminist, especially at your age. It doesn't take a genius to find out that today's feminism is fueled by misandry and from experience + observation, often those who claim to be feminists don't actually know what it holds. And judging from the way you argue with people, it only supports that claim. There are female users like @marish01 who actually did dive into the meaning of feminism and what it has become thanks to the marxist takeover. So perhaps it will do you well to speak to her.

[caitycat21]

All I hear is someone who cares way too much about optics ;/

[caitycat21]

And I’m not about to explain Marxism to someone who’s definitely never read any Of Karl marxs books

[TruthBringer]

As I said, the brainwashing got you good. Must be fun dealing with politics at your age. Such a waste of youth. I wouldn't be surprised if you look back and all you can think about is how you wasted your teenage years on a ideology that already served its purpose and is now aimed to destroying the nuclear family. Suit yourself ;)

[TruthBringer]

PS: You don't have to read Mark's economic books to grasp the ideo of what marxism is. It's called doing research on the net. The same logic of yours can be applied to you that you claim to know what efeminism is, but I bet my ass you haven't read either a single book written by a feminist or didn't read enough to actually label yourself as one. And yet here you are doing it anyway. Or when you throw around random sources and studies despite them being written for peers and therefore you lack crucial knowledge within the academic study. And still cherry-pick quotes to suit your bias. So with your logic, that means we shouldn't take you word either as you haven't even induldged in Academia yourself. See? Two can play the game. If you find it easy to dismiss arguments as you see fit, so can others do to you. In this case, you actually made one that sadly for you acted as a double edged sword.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Wow, you're quite the idiot.

[caitycat21]

If you’re wondering if I’ve read theory I can definitely list all the theory I’ve read? Feminist and Marxist theory.

And again reading on the internet you can only learn so much. Most definitions of Marxism on the internet you read aren’t even written by actual Marxists who have read the theory and did the research

[caitycat21]

And again, all you’re arguing is optics. You say you hate feminism because “people view feminists as minandrists”

You say you hate Marxism “because it’s a useless ideology” yet I doubt you could even explain to me the difference between communism and socialism because you seem like the kinda guy that believes in vuvevenezual, no iPhones, bull crap

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue Such an "intelligent" reply

[TruthBringer]

The internet is full of sources and one must be picky with where their information is being gathered. You will find that within university, the web is being highly used to gather information to make reports. Hence why you will find that students will write an assignment about Johannes Kepler's achievements to the scientific revolution following the work of Nicholas Copernicus. These students didn't open a single book about these mathematicians/astronomers themselves, but rather, gathered their information from reliable sources that EXPLAIN their theories and work (and then use those as references written in APA style). You don't necessary read definitions, unless they are from an official dictionary or credited sources like universities (such as Cambridge for instance). You read about theories and take meaning from there. With that being said, discrediting the web is actually another double edged sword that you're stabbing yourself with considering the fact that you use sources gathered over the net to make your position known to others her, as well as argue.

"You say you hate Marxism “because it’s a useless ideology” yet I doubt you could even explain to me the difference between communism and socialism because you seem like the kinda guy that believes in vuvevenezual, no iPhones, bull crap"

Ah there we go again with the logical fallacies. Your strawman arguments as well as red herrings aren't even worth debating. It will only give you what you want, which is a divergence from the actual statements being made. Try again, you're not as smart as you try to make yourself out to be.

[TruthBringer]

Also, I didn't say I hated marxcism. I simply mentioned the stage where the pure intentions of feminism started to become corrupted that paved the way to the feminism we know today, which is nothing but a pity party for undesirable women to throw shade at men and run from their own responsiblity. Better fix your reading comprehension before you try to act smart with people. Try again.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Yes, yes it is, perfect for an "intelligent" comment.

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue Ad hominems are the typical battlecry of someone who has no valid arguments. Be on your way, kid.

[caitycat21]

@TruthBringer I’m not debating you. Debate bros have polluted the public’s mind so badly. Oh god, the most theory you’ve probably read from feminist is a Ben Shapiro video of him “owning” college students

[TruthBringer]

Nice assumption, but you've failed once again to make an educated guess. In any way, thanks for proving my point about your lack of knowledge and making yourself sound smarter than you are. Ciao

[caitycat21]

You expect someone to debate you. This isn’t a debate, if you want to be educated. I’ll educate but I have no desire to debate since I know how ridiculous the concept is

[caitycat21]

Debating now a days isn’t about spreading ideas. It’s about wining an argument, that isn’t productive

[TruthBringer]

Sorry love, but it's obvious that you have no knwoeldge to educate anyone, to begin with. It is quite evident that all you could do is resort to red herrings by point fingers and make incorrect assumptions about me, instead of head on attacking my arguments. But by all means, don't let me stop you from sticking to your wishful thinking and logical fallacies.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer I don't need to make a valid argument to someone who hasn't made a valid statement. Most of your comments (on feminism, I dont know much about Marxism to argue about it) have been opinions, biased interpretations, and inaccurate facts. And thats not adding the part where you haven't shown any sources of these "facts".

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue So on one hand you admit to not know much about what is being discussed, and then proceed to claim someone is wrong. This must be the biggest facepalm I've made this year yet. Not to forget to mention that you ONCE AGAIN didn't even attack my statements head on. All you did was throw insults and claim I am wrong without valid elaboration. You got a lot to learn, kid. As I said, be on your way before you keep embarassing yourself more.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Read. Please open your eyes. Turn on your brain. And read what I said. I am discussing Feminism, not Marxism.
I'm discussing Feminism because I know more about that topic then Marxism.
You haven't proven your statements to be true in the first place, so it doesn't hold much weight.

[TruthBringer]

@HeartFullOfGlue I've already read and seen enough about feminism to know what it is. So do the rest of society. There is a reason why it has such a bad name and that's not my fault. But there is obviously no point in arguing with you considering you don't have the maturity to remotely try and consider someone else's perspective. Perhaps when you're older.

[caitycat21]

@TruthBringer because all you argued is semantics? You’re so ridiculously out of touch with reality that you expect to sit on your ass and make the most half assed argument against feminism and expect me to write a scholarly peer reviewed essay as a response? Lol

[caitycat21]

And optics?

[TruthBringer]

@caitycat21 Lmfao I merely gave you a piece of common sense from the very get go and you started opting mental gymnastics (seen in logical fallacies) to try and divert away or even discredit anything that has been said to you. One only has to see feminists and listen to them to truly understand their motive. Hence why feminism got such a bad name within society that people often run away from anyone who identifies as one.

Also, it isn't about semantics. It's about you also using flawed logic in an attempt to dismiss my arguments and foolishly dismantling your own style of arguing in the process (refering to the double edged sword I've mentioned numerous times). But as I said, the brainwashing got you very good. Thinking that you're some kind of victim of men within western society. Must be hellish living life in comfort and have rights (something women like in Afghanistan don't have). By all means, stick to the bitter ideology that paved way to hatred between men and women.

[caitycat21]

Flawed logic in attempt to discuss my arguments. WHAT ARGUMENTS?

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@TruthBringer Clearly not enough. Like seriously if you looked around you'd actually see why feminism has such a bad name.
I do know perspective considering I use to believe the same thing you're rambling on about, so don't try that shit with me.

[IMuser]

I have been reading your argument and till the end, the only thing I can see is you two fighting each other. If it is possible, me as someone who is not well versed on feminism and Marxism, would like to ask some questions (i would be glad if both of you can answer)
1. If a paygap exists, that is, a company can pay a woman less and get away with it, why is it even hiring men? Like if i pay $90 to a female and $100 to a male, why should I even hire the male when i can hire females and get away by paying less salary?

2. What is the fundamental difference between socialism and communism and how does Marxism influence them?

3. What gives the feminists of today the power to openly hate men

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@IMuser Whos that directed? Or is it just for everyone?

[IMuser]

@HeartFullOfGlue both of you, i wish to know the opinions of both of you on the questions i have asked

[caitycat21]

I will answer later since my phones about to die

[IMuser]

It's alright

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@IMuser Ok,
1st. To my knowledge, some of things play/ dont get accounted for in the gender pay gap, so I think its inaccurate (at least in America)
2nd. I said this to the other dude, I dont know much about Marxism, so I'm not really arguing over that.
3rd. Internet. Internet gives anyone the power to openly hate anyone or anything. Misandrists form a group masquerading as feminists and use it.
Now at the same time there's a difference between actually hating a whole group vs just stating the bad things that group have done in the past, current day, and most likely the future.

[IMuser]

@HeartFullOfGlue
1 I would like to know the objective measures things which don't get accounted while calculating "pay gap": are you talking about services or simple money?
2. Very well. However I believe you asked him to explain the difference between socialism and communism. Personally, i too understand the difference between them (no matter how much I try to read about it. I am dumb 😅) and would appreciate if you were to explain it using an extremely simple example
3. I get it. Thank you.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@IMuser
1st. I mean, different jobs have different pay, depends on how often individual shows up for work or how well they do, some go by how many hours you're there and others go by how well of a job you did, that type of stuff. This would all play a part and I dont think it accounted for.

2nd. No I dont think I did, It might have been the other lady. I have a hard time understanding the difference lol, I need someone to explain it to me too.

3rd. No problem < 3

[IMuser]

@HeartFullOfGlue alright, however your own explanation of point number 1 states that paygap isn't a gender issue, it's an individual issue:

If you are a lazy ass who doesn't work, then irrespective of your gender, you will and should be paid less than what the other deserving candidates do

I sincerely believe that the paygap argument makes much more sense if seen in an individual's perspective.

And yeah, communism and socialisiare confusing 😂😂

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@IMuser
1st. Well, yeah that's what I think it is, an individual issue rather then a gendered one. I agree with you.
Of course unless we're adding up all men's paychecks then women's through American history and comparing it, then thats a different story.

2nd. They really are

[IMuser]

We can't change the history right?

We can only accept and learn from it.

[HeartFullOfGlue]

@IMuser
Exactly

[Dchrls78104]

With what I've heard these days (one of the most outrageous stories being that of the feminist who seduced the nerd to have sex with her and then accused him publicly of raping her, leading him to take his own life) why would I disagree with that assessment in the question? To me, all sexists (including feminists) belong in the nuthouse, along with all racists, clutching lobotomies and a straitjacket; and should leave the rest of us humans in peace.

[sage2021]

Seems like now a days it is. It never used to be this bad. I wouldn't know how I would act around these third wave feminists if I were a guy. They have gone way overboard and they are like girls women from another planet.

[Razp_Sorbet]

Radical man hating feminists are not the majority. Every group has horrible people with horrible ideas, that doesn't mean that's what the entire group stands for. Feminism at it's heart and entire core is just wanting men and women to be equal and have equal opportunities.

[VanillaSalt]

@Razp_Sorbet A friend of mine believes this too. The issue is we don’t see anyone but the crazies that spend all their time in the spot light. I honestly think we put too much value in women.

I would describe the USA as a gynocentric patriarchy. Society prioritizes women in society, law (especially family and divorce courts), children and family, and many other ways.

Can you name one single point feminists have fought for that would equalize something that women had the advantage in? If so maybe there’s merit to your point. But the only thing I’ve seen feminists fight for is something that helps at best both men and women and at worst helps women at the cost of men’s rights and privileges.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt
Integration into the work force caused massive economic gain after wwII. In 1976 the US supreme court ruled it was unfair to treat women differently to men, in specific women were allowed to consume alcohol at age 18 while men were only allowed to at 21, the law changed for 21 for all. Single men couldn't request dependant care reductions but tax deductions were given to women, widowers and divorced men. That policy changed. Men get more sex thanks to better accessibility to birth control! The FBI changed the definition of rape to include men. The family and medical leave act. Efforts to eradicate sexual violence in the military which vastly affects men. Women were at the front of the civil rights movement, without them it wouldn't have been successful. The prison rape elimination act. Paternity leave. Demanding justice for AIDS in the 80s, changing how people perceive a person with AIDS. Men get vital reproductive health services. Changing the medias representation of men. Fighting for equal opportunities in careers.

[VanillaSalt]

But civil rights effects both… so again. What did they fight for that didn’t help them as a byproduct… feminist specifically. I believe PEOPLE have fought for men… but when has feminism ever specifically benefitted men where women had the advantage.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt I literally just listed 20 things

[Razp_Sorbet]

What things helped women at the expense of men?

[VanillaSalt]

I’m not gonna lie I’m too lazy to look up the specifics of your list of 20. Could you list something their currently working on?

As for the opposite… the push for women having careers. The twisting of our youth to thinking careers more important then family. Even going as far as insulting mothers to hold up the career woman with insults like “upholding the patriarchy “. How’s about the complete monopoly on children and family? Like in regards to abortion, divorce, courts, custody… how’s about all the man hating and insults like “pick me girl” that’s mainstreamed? How about affirmative action over merit? The value of a mans voice to a woman… hell the VP was chosen PURELY because she is a woman.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt
If you're too lazy to look into it then don't ask.

Women having careers benefits men.
I've never seen a movement about having a career over family, that's more something tye economy has forced people (men too) to choose between. Abortion is a woman's issue. I see a lot of people talking about divorce courts who don't understand the laws and reasonings behind why women often get custody. The insults and man hating isn't to do with feminists.

These honestly all just seem like random things you're mad about not things that women fought for at the expense of men.

[VanillaSalt]

https://youtu.be/z6AExMxWnmQ

This woman disagrees with your point of careers over family. Just randomly grabbed it so it has many points.

“Abortion is a woman’s issue.” Do you think fathers care about your reasoning? Why should she get care over my kids over me? Why can she choose to have the kid with a broken condom against my wishes and still get child support? Then at the same time why can she end it without me even being about to defend my child’s life? They won’t fight for any of these causes. Why is it alimony when men pay but “manimony” when women pay? Making fun of the husband for taking the money…

Since I’m so ignorant then tell me WHY women get my kid over me and remember we’re equal…

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt women typically get custody over kids because they are the ones who typically do the kids routine, wake them up, give them food, take them to school, pick them up, bathe, put to bed. But custody is progressing to 50/50. It takes time.

Also I don't really care what one women's opinion is. Everyone has different outlooks on life. Wanting as career and/or wanting a family is an individuals choice. And again not something that women have made happen in spite of men. (Which may I remind you is what I asked)

[VanillaSalt]

This woman was taught by her mother “being a mom was the same as being a slave”.

[VanillaSalt]

Also… it’s not close to 50/50… it’s still 90/10. And it’s more then routine. Finances are important too. Also it’s not about the inequality it’s about them fighting for it… which they arnt right?

If there are 3 issues women have the advantage in and 4 their behind in they will argue for the 4 to make them equal but not AGAINST the 3 to make men equal. Their not about equality their about women’s rights and ONLY women’s rights.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt I said to name things that women fought for at the expense of men. You've not done so.

[VanillaSalt]

You pointed one out yourself “abortion is a woman’s issue”

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt abortion is a women's issue. It's a womans body. Your say in the matter ends when you have sex. There's plenty of opportunities to discuss before hand. If you don't want kids you discuss before having sex, you make sure you're doing everything you can to prevent it. If you aren't for abortion you discuss before having sex, in case of accidents.

[VanillaSalt]

When you were single did you discuss what if with all your sex partners? You know full well horny drunk teenagers are not out to discuss what if’s… your argument places ALL the responsibility on men to make a proper choice. Women get extra steps later in but men only get the one… risk or abstinence… meanwhile women get the extra choice is an inequality. If anything BECAUSE women have to deal with pregnancy they should be held to a higher standard. But that’s unfair isn’t it?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt I didn't sleep around. So no. But I did discuss with the sexual partners I have had. If you can't have that discussion then you shouldn't be having sex. And no it doesn't place all the responsibility on men, it's a joint discussion.

[VanillaSalt]

Yes but it’s men expected to have no say after the fact. Again reproduction is controlled by women period. Men have no say. When men attempt to have a say like MGTOW they get called out…

[VanillaSalt]

Neither men nor women talk about this almost at all… no discussion what do ever. That’s on both men and women and your argument to make the argument they should knowing most won’t is just strawman.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt no like I explained you have a say. Before the fact. If you decide to have sex knowing full well that if she gets pregnant she will likely have an abortion then that is the consequence of your choice.

[VanillaSalt]

Then isn’t it the same argument that if she chooses to engage in sex knowing she could get pregnant and knowing her finances she shouldn’t have access to child support?

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt no the question is whether a person is ok with having or not having an abortion. Expecting people to not have sex if they're not ready for kids just doesn't work for most people. It's ok to not be for it in your own circumstances but just because that's your view doesn't mean other people don't deserve a choice.

[VanillaSalt]

So your defending the idea that abstinence isn’t realistic in a large scale if I’m understanding correctly. But again going back if women have more risk and more to loose then it supports their right to additional options however with that comes more responsibility.

Giving women complete control over reproduction is a mistake. If they want the kid he pays regardless his financial standing but she wants access to sex the same as him… either promote sex after marriage or take away child support. Then it’s fair.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt men and women have equal say in birth control. You can wear a condom, that you supplied. She can take hormonal birth control. You both can have a conversation about what you expect from eachother. If your views don't meet eye to eye, don't have sex with them. It's really simple.

[VanillaSalt]

No no they don’t. They have equal say in contraception. Women control access to sex and women have abortion. Stop red lighting me.

[VanillaSalt]

Also you just admitted that getting large groups to give up sex is unreasonable. Then equally so getting people to have uncomfortable conversations about the consequences while trying to put the moves on someone is just as unreasonable…

While having sex you don’t ask “is it okay if i touch your boobs?” “Is it okay if I kiss you?”… I promised sex ends the day that happens

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt if you're uncomfortable talking about sex then you shouldn't be having it. What are you 12?

[Razp_Sorbet]

Also thank you for informing the people of gag that you do not understand enthusiastic consent.

[VanillaSalt]

You keep evading the question further proving… it’s what benefits women and men don’t matter unless it equally benefits women… it’s obvious you don’t intend to answer my question.

[Razp_Sorbet]

@VanillaSalt you didn't ask a question there... I've answered every other question. I explained many situations where feminist women fought for men's rights, for things that only or vastly affect men. You just couldn't be bothered looking into them. That's on you not me.

You also never mentioned one thing that women have fought for that expenses men. Abortion isn't one because at the end of the day it doesn't physically affect you. Emotionally sure. Even if it is one. That's one thing you've listed out of my 20 something so it seems feminists don't actually do things only for women.

[ProfoundNflawed]

No, feminism means equality ie.., women shoud have the same rights and opportunities as men, feminists don't hate men. The ones who hates men aren't actually feminists who are fighting for equality, they're pseudo feminists who are fighting for superiority.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then what about masculinism? What if we claim for that movement to be the movement of equality?

[JVM1939]

Tell me one right or privilege men have that women don't

[Curmudgeon]

Today, in its 3rd or even 4th "waves"? Absolutely Yes. The people who have a favorable view of it are 9 times out of ten still thinking of the "second wave" of the 1970's, but that's five decades ago now.

[virtue2332]

It doesn't have to be. As a father with 3 daughters I want my girls to be pro women equal rights when it comes to the important things like pay and benefits etc... but use common sense and understand that we are different. So we can both equal 10 but it may look like 3 3 3 1 and 2 2 2 4 both 10 but different strengths and weaknesses.

[Snakeyes7]

Absolutely. Even “normal” feminists still have to believe that society is made by men for men at the expense of women in order to be a feminist. In order to fight against that men have to be their enemy and the ones with a lot of power sure talk a lot about that.

[caitycat21]

What gender do you think runs the sex work industry? An industry that exploits mostly women.

Did you know there are women around the world who are forced to get their genitalia mutilated?

Or the femicides taking place in places like Mexico right now?

And no society isn’t made for every man, it’s made for the rich and powerful.

[Snakeyes7]

@caitycat21

> It could be either gender, it really doesn't matter because the workers are there at their own volition and can leave at any time if they think they are being exploited.

>There isn't a single country on the planet that does not support male genital mutilation. The ones that support female genital mutilation also support male GM.

>Males are more than 8 times more likely to be victims of homicide in Mexico for any reason. Even if every female homicide victim was done because they are women it still isn't proof that it is male dominated.

> I agree, the rich and powerful can be any sex and can set the narrative of the culture regardless of sex.

[caitycat21]

@Snakeyes7

A 2003 study first published in the scientific Journal of Trauma Practice found that 89 percent of women in prostitution want to escape.

That to me doesn’t sound like these sex workers are staying because of their own volition?

And it’s not about thinking you’re exploited? They ARE

According to a systematic review of research, globally, sex workers have a 45% to 75% chance of experiencing sexual violence on the job.

Poor economic condition was the most frequent (47.6%) factor leading to joining of sex trade ?

It’s obvious when looking at the facts that these are women who are disenfranchised. Sex work is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, sex workers are some of the most exploited workers in the world and no one talks about them or stands up for them because people would rather hate on sex workers than hate on the pimps and johns who exploit women?

Your point on make genital mutilation doesn’t make any sense, my point was never that this doesn’t happen to men as well.

Again with male homicide victims in
Mexico. Mexico is literally one of the most violent countries for women in the world.

Approximately 10 women are killed every day in Mexico, and the rate of femicide has doubled in the last 5 years

Killings of women are shown to be much more brutal than those of men in Mexico. It is 1.3 times as likely for women to be murdered using sharp objects than men. Also, women are 3 times as likely to be murdered by means of hanging, being strangled, being suffocated, and drowning. Finally, women are 2 times as likely to be killed in means involving substances and fire

www.gob.mx/.../violenciaFeminicidaMx_07dic_web.pdf

https://paa2013.princeton.edu/papers/132977

[TruthBringer]

@caitycat21 So you take a subset of men who exploit the sex industry and use that as a means to try and debunk the argument against that men don't manage society at the expense of women as much as feminists claim? Not only is your sampling incorrect as the average male doesn't benefit from any of it (often the contrary actually), but you also pulled a massive red herring trying to manipulate the conversation into a direction you see fit as you have your little sources ready that were not part of the argument, to begin with. I highly suggest you get to know what logical fallacies are, because you are using them.

[-Asca-]

Asbolutely not, and most people who think that get their idea of feminism from people from misogynists who pick out the most extreme of the extreme feminists and strawmen to pretend that all feminidts are crazy man haters. If those people got their opinion of feminidm from actually going out into the world and talking to feminist women many wouldn't say such stuff since most feminists actually get along with men just fine and I know this from experience.

[Agape93]

Nope. I'm a feminist, I don't hate men or wish them any less rights than I have. That's the issue. Misandrist shit stains keep calling themselves feminist when they stand opposed to what feminism is all about; gender equality.

[WhiteBoyChill]

I’m convinced gender equality does exist but I can respect your opinion

[Sabretooth]

yes. it's not about equality. look at their stance against the boy scouts and girl scouts... you'd think they'd cheer... not so much... that further cemented my beliefs. here's another example:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/tL0BATFWgUI

there's also a bit of a violent history.

[WalkingInTheRain7]

It's become like that, women blaming men for their problems, or judging and condemning men falsely, that is, blanket judging all men. Its really toxic, and, runs into pride issues.

[CapreceIsSaved]

Yes! Yes it is! I am a woman saying this. It absolutely is.

[Subarugirl]

I think the word you are looking for is misandry

[RedStiletto88]

No. Feminism just means we want to have the same rights (voting, having our own bank accounts, not being treated as property) as men.


Yes some women hate men and having dealt with abusive men in the past I can understand why.

[JohnK123]

Ok but what about the women who hate men and haven’t been abused?

[RedStiletto88]

I think the bigger issue is the men who think it’s somehow okay to be abusive.

[JohnK123]

Bigger issue? So ure saying women who think it’s ok to be abusive is not a big issue?

[Agagagagaga]

“Feminism just means we want to have the same rights (voting, having our own bank accounts, not being treated as property) as men.”

These goals have been accomplished long ago.

[TruthBringer]

@RedStiletto88 You already have the same rights. You already can already have your own bank account, you already have the right to vote, being treated as property is something you have to look out for yourself and make sure the men you deal with aren't like that, just as how men have to be strategic in their choice in a woman who won't see him as an ATM. The wage gap has also been debunked (just throwing this out in case you plan on bringing it up). So at this point feminism is just about bitching for the sake of attention and spreading misandry.

I'd argue at this point that the majority of ACTUAL feminists are bitter and hateful towards men. Way too many women call themselves feminists because they think it puts them on the right side of political correctness.

Also, notice how you disregarded @JohnK123 when he asked something about the unabused women who still hate on men? And then directed the conversaiont to another context you prefer to speak about? We are talking about feminists, not men who think it is okay to abuse women. If those ar ethe men you deal with on a regular, then it is evident you have a poor judgment skills on who you allow in your life.

You have not provided valid arguments, just a poor attempt to convince yourself about an ideology by bringing up examples of goals that are already met.

[GlassTop]

It’s funny that feminism is greatest in countries where women have the most rights, instead of in muslim countries where they have no rights.

[TruthBringer]

@GlassTop Plenty of Muslim countries that do have women rights. Newflash, Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan aren't the only Muslim countries. But I do get your point

[GlassTop]

@TruthBringer there’s also plenty of muslim countries that limit women’s rights. I don’t understand how feminists can bitch and complain in countries where they have even more rights than men, yet fight for and ignore countries where women are ACTUALLY suppressed.

[MrtoddsWildRide]

@GlassTop
"It’s funny that feminism is greatest in countries where women have the most rights, instead of in muslim countries where they have no rights. "
That's because they kill anyone that shows the slightest interest in feminism.

[GlassTop]

@MrtoddsWildRide Maybe we should put feminists into those countries so they’ll actually have a goal.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Modern day femisim is, not the orginal feminism. So orignally No.

[genericname85]

Even the original feminism fought for rights that would hurt women at the time, if we didn't grant them special exceptions with those rights that men wouldn't have the benefit of...

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

What rights did they fought for that would hurt women?

[genericname85]

originally, the right to vote came with the obligation for "bucket duty", wich was basically obligatory fire fighting service and conscription (which is of course military service). men who would reach a certain age would gain the right to vote with the obligation to fullfill those duties. women at the time did not want those duties and it was generally accepted (by men AND women) that it would be more favourable for women not to have those duties, thus forego the right to vote. so in modern times we don't really understand the magnitude of the unfairness behind the decision of giving women the right to vote but not the obligations that men would get with that right.

so even originally, feminism wasn't ever about "equality". it was always about "more rights for women" as it is today. i acknowledge that there are and have been moderate feminists but most feminists missrepresent the facts that are quite well known in social science for their propaganda. mostly the facts around income inequalities are framed completely out of context and are fed with false claims that are just untrue.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Well the aim really wasn't for them to be in danger it was more so the ability to have the choice to vote. That just so happen to be an unfair, ultimatum.

[genericname85]

well men didn't "want" to be in danger either, believe it or not. that's just what came with being a man.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Yeah but at the same time you have to consider the built of men and women are different hence that is why military have always been associated with men. Women physically are not built to do the same task as men due to strength and muslce built.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Where as lifting a finger to vote doesn't take much out of both genders.

[genericname85]

well there's men that are weaker than women. shit out of luck. they have a penis so they still get to enjoy conscription xD

being weaker on average doesn't mean you can't hold a gun to shoot people anyway.

[genericname85]

of course voting is easy. but it was a right that was afforded in exchange for those dangerous duties. so getting that right without having to do those duties is quite unfair. not just "unequal", which is not unfair by default.

[genericname85]

maybe i should elaborate on why it's unfair. considering consciribtion, the right to vote was to some extend the right to choose which people get the right to send you to war, where you may die. voting those people without that possibility of dying in the war they start is a bit unfair, don't you think? xD

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Military action isn't only based on weaponry. On a majority physically men have a physical advantage on women. No problem in you want to put women in sniping.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

When think of right to vote it is intially the right to choose a leader. And its fair because majority rules.

[genericname85]

well it's not fair cause 50% of voters don't even suffer the consequences of having to go to war, if women are allowed to vote.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Voting wasn't entirely just about war, if it was entirely about war yeah no problem. The people who d didn't want to go to war also have family that doesn't want them to go war as well so more family members on their side voting would help more people voting against it wouldve helped.

[VanillaSalt]

Kitty. Your right the right to vote it’s fair only if it applies to all. But for men to vote we put it lives in the line… what did women do for this right to vote? If nothing then it’s unfair.

Also when fought for women’s right to work outside the home. On its face it sounds amazing but that lead to double the working class population and now I’ve person incomes arnt generally possible to support a family with.

There’s consequences for everything. Women want the benefits men enjoy but avoid the accountability. The sexual revolution is a perfect example. Women wanted to be about to go out and have promiscuous sex without consequences. It leads to the spreading of AIDS and other STIs.

Men have almost no say after the sperm leaves their body. No say on abortion, child support, custody, nothing… is unfair that women suffer more risk for child birth but… looks like we have a biological difference that makes a choice unfair but AGAIN it’s unfair for men…

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

When the men went to war the women had to hold down the household and of their partners did not return they also had that budern to deal with, also if the partner did return without the ability to work thay was another burden.

When women fought for the right to work it was to have the option to work or not to work. It was benefical especially when men couldnt bring enough money to the home.

Original femisim stems from having the option of being able to have choices just like men have choices.

Now you switched to modern feminism which focuses on promiscuity. Not blowing loads into women who aren't your wives would help with the issue of abortion. If you do your research majority of abortions are done by SINGLE women, not MARRIED single. So that is when both genders play promiscuous. If men can be promiscuous why shouldn't women? If men can sleep around without being call a hoe why can't women? Where I stand is that nobody should be sleeping around, as it is gross amd risky.

The ways those women is that if you aren't married to them why should you have a say of what is in their body. I for am not an advocate for abortions because I dont support it. I am not into modern feminism. Slut walk and all the other nonsense I am not into it.

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt the spread of STDs was not a thing exclusive to the sexual revolution. And i personally would attribute the necessity to have the 1.5 breadwinner model to inflation outrunning the salary increase, cause there's nations that only had the traditional roles long into the recent past. Particularly the eastern European states. They never had the transition into dual breadwinner models BEFORE that was a financial necessity.

The problem was not caused mainly by doubling the workforce through female employment in my opinion. The problem was caused by extremely cheap transportation that made local production even more expensive than having something build else where and having it shipped around the globe 3 times. That's what dumped the wages to the point where the single breadwinner model was invalidated for most first world median income households.

[VanillaSalt]

I forgot that women took over the running of the country when we went to war… but still an arguable difference is their lives are never in danger. Men came back broken and some didn’t come back but women never had to suffer that. Yes the wives suffered their husbands misfortunes but not the single in society. Regardless how you see this you have to see the unfairness of the situation.

I have to press the dads part though. It should not be legally possible for her to keep the kid and make him pay if he don’t want it. Single or otherwise. I don’t like abortion either to me it’s a nasty word up there with rape and murder. I support safe, legal, rare but only when we make better choices. 1.5% of all abortions a combination of rape and incest. That means I support 1.5% of abortion. I agree both sides need to be better about promiscuity however again forcing legality that affects me when I’ve had one single hookup in my life? Considering something as big as children how can we leave such a topic solely to one gender?

Even datings done by women’s standards. Men approach. Men pay. Happening less today but still overwhelming. Women choose who gets kids and married. Then when they get bored they can leave forsaking their vows and costing men. This usually end in mutual destruction but men tend to pull ahead eventually from what I’ve seen.

When have an overwhelming advantage in society, law, and procreation but want more. And it seems their not afraid to step on men and it wants to get it. I not only don’t like feminism but generally don’t like when either. And these feelings are… not growing but changing. I don’t think their good for society. I wonder which is more important the needs of the individual, the needs of a group, the needs of society…

[genericname85]

And of course the fact that industrialization and automation made the Male physiology advantages obsolete in many fields.

[VanillaSalt]

Obviously we need an answer. What’s yours I’m interested. I think you need a different answer then telling the other group they need to do more. As a man and as a leader I know I should take the first step… but most of these issues women complain about I haven’t engaged in or been complacent in and I have to take the lead and put more effort while being denigrated in society for being a man. If we’re going to be equal it’s time women started to lead. So. As a woman what should YOU be doing?

[VanillaSalt]

@genericname85 so your telling me now men have no place in this world? Unless their fathers in which case their less value able then women? Who’s to accept that?

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt that is in no way what i said. You're pulling a Cathy Newman on me xD. What i am saying is: why pay a man more for pushing a button on a machine if a woman can literally do the same work just as well?

Of course there's still some jobs where men have the traditional advantage over women but those are becoming very niche.

Work generally is massively devalued by outsourcing and cheap transportation to and from places like china and Africa way more than the simple fact that women "can" now do equal work in many jobs.

[VanillaSalt]

You can’t tell me doubling the work force didn’t have a a massive effect on supply and demand for laborers. We can assess blame all day but what do we do in the here and now? Men are second class. And even if that’s not true so so many men believe they are. Often the belief of inferiority is worse then actually being inferior.

It seems to me society stands as a gynocentric patriarchy. Top 1% of men on top with most women in the middle and being protected by society, government, and tradition, meanwhile most men bring up the lowest of society being less valuable then women. This isn’t necessarily about true value but perceived value. I’ve seen it growing up my whole life.

[VanillaSalt]

Ok first of fuck your for the comparison… that bitch twisted his words for an hour… I’ve made one statement based off my believes and understanding of what you said once…

Second… God your going on about the wage gap… that’s been proven false already. If you watched the same interview you’d know it’s based off women working 37 hours as full time and men working more dangerous higher paying jobs at 42+ hours full time… also you say niche jobs but I’m standing at work right now throwing blocks 12 hours a day. Women CAN do it but choose not to… look up the interview again and listen to his views to confirm.

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt the work force wasn't "doubled" by women entering the labor markets in shy society that i know, cause most women work part time not full time. Also as i said, this happened in many places in reaction to inflation. Also women did actually still not to this day take up significant proportions in classical male dominated labour fields.

[VanillaSalt]

But they dominate fields like teachers and nurses.

[VanillaSalt]

If they didn’t these spots would be available to men more and not stigmatized as they are.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

How about we all agree to disagree because this is looking like an argument lets all end this dicussion ❤ Have a good night guys much love

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt well that's a tiny fraction of the labour market and a not very well paid on top of that xD specially if you consider that they mostly work past time, specially if they are married with children.

[genericname85]

Part time*

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

And I hope i dont sound like I am pissed or anything, we just see things differently and thats ok thats life, so I am sorry if i soumded like I was attacking

[genericname85]

Women dominate fields that men classically don't wanna work in anyway xD so you can't really make the argument that they push men out of jobs or devalue male work. That happened for other reasons than that as i literally just explained.

[VanillaSalt]

@Sincerly_KittyCat I still wanna hear your answer Kitty. The fact is a majority of the benefits women have fought for lately has been at the cost of society and men.

What’s your answer to this hatred between the sexes? What’s women’s role in fixing this because if we just rely on men to make the first step… that seems negligent in women’s part.

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

I dont see that it cost the men.
I see hatred between the sexes began when women were seen as less than man.
Dont think that majority of the time men dont make the first step because if women didn't ask and fight for it there wouldn't be any steps after or male allies after that.

So we can agree to disagree, thats all 🙂

[Sincerly_KittyCat]

Oops typo... I dont see men making the first step majority of the time ****

[genericname85]

The issue is women were not seen as less than men. When feminism did is to apply male standards for success to women and determine that they are not successful... Which i think is single handedly at fault for declining birth rates in the western world and for many of the sexism issues we face today.

Making the definition of success the same for men and women was in my opinion a stupid move that helped nobody.

[VanillaSalt]

You don’t think monopolizing abortion rights don’t come at the cost of both men and society?

Also my hatred started when I realized what women were. Sadly I had a traditional view of women being amazing and I should help and protect them. I pedestalized them… then I realized how twisted women actually can be and recognized them for being human. It’s like meeting your favorite actor and realizing he’s an asshole. I realize this is my fault for thinking so highly of them however when I see all the inequality that exists today especially in the things I care about meanwhile they want MORE to benefit them without any corrections in the areas I care about like family planning… yeah I gotta be honest. Fuck feminism in every form. And to argue against your point. If you tell young women their careers are more important then finding a family… you increase hookups because they don’t want the family which means more promiscuity and abortion. You change their personalities to focus on what benefits a career rather then family… guys don’t actually want a boss bitch generally speaking. You see the Career promoted over family 9 times out of 10 these days. And many times the family woman treated like dirt to further the career woman talk.

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt you're as far on one side extreme as sincerly kitty is on the other side of the extreme. there's no point in being butthurt for men or for women and there's no point in blaming a gender for shit that happened for reasons outside of that gender. you're doing the same shit feminists do but against women instead of against men.

[VanillaSalt]

Um I don’t see kitty as extreme you might wanna re-examine the post and question.

As for me… the difference between extreme and enlightened is the end result… we’re obviously going in the wrong direction.

[genericname85]

@VanillaSalt kitty just straight up ignores unfairness when men experience it, while you blame women for shit that women can't be blamed for. i think you quite severely overestimate your own opinion if you call that "enlightened"...

[VanillaSalt]

I blame women for not doing more about it… and I expect accountability. Nothing more or less.

I wanna be clear. I expect what I expect from personal experience and statistics. I’m not gonna change that to suit a singular individual. Prove to me your different and I’ll listen and even if I disagree I’ll respect your effort. Otherwise a woman is a woman one is no different then the other.

[David_Kek]

Ever heard of the thing called the white feather campaign? It was mostly headed by Emmeline Pankhurst, in-between their acts of genuine domestic terrorism, which included one attempted assassination of the prime minister.
What makes that significate is they were literally shaming and demanding men fight and die for their own protection as women, men who didn't even have the vote themselves (until after the war), while they themselves was exempting themselves of any sort of service equivalent to military conscription as payment for the vote. Do you understand that?
They were literally demanding men who didn't have the vote themselves to fight and die for women's safety, while they were demanding the vote for themselves for literally nothing. You think that original feminism gave two shits about men's equality?

[HighValue]

Yes it is. I challenge anyone that thinks otherwise to name a single law that feminists got changed to help men's rights. Not even once.

[grega239]

It is. Feminism no longer has a reason to exist. Laws against discrimination have been written.

So they have to resort to imaginary systems of oppression and blaming men because statistical data says more CEOs have dixks and not vaginas.

[Lovesims3plumbob]

Just some mordern femmist that will only man hating. i am not part of it since i do not from be label as crazy or not instersted in hockingup.

[Elliegirl]

Feminism isn’t about hating men. It’s about getting the same rights, pay, and treatment as men. This is a particularly relevant thing for me since my career has traditionally been a “boys club.”

[Dontabesillybe]

didn't know girls had less rights

Wait, you mean cos a girl was rejected to play on the boys football team in highschool? That's to be expected, I think you jus accept the reality that your gender isn't going to be expected to be playing that type of game with boys

[Dontabesillybe]

If I was a girl I wouldn't blame anyone for rejecting me to join a boys football team. Think about it

[JVM1939]

Then go and sign for the draft in case of a war

[Elliegirl]

I didn’t want to play on the football team. I loved being a cheerleader. What I was talking about when I said “boys club” are the types of careers that are traditionally dominated by men and often times women in those careers may still have to contend with discrimination and the glass ceiling because of it.

[MinxDoll]

@Dontabesillybe do u not know there’s women in other count besides America that r stoned to death etc

[MinxDoll]

@JVM1939 notice how u only want same rights when it benefits you 🤔

[JVM1939]

@MinxDoll tell me one right or privilege men have that women don't. ONE

[MinxDoll]

@JVM1939 oh I don't know how about Afghan women get stoned to death, can’t leave their house without a male no matter what that males age is as long it’s a male, why do u think only in ur country, feminism is equal rights worldwide.

[JVM1939]

@MinxDoll and boys get recruited by these taliban, men get killed way more often than women by the taliban. Why don't you go to Afghanistan to protest about how they treat women?

In your country, again, one privilege men have over women

[MinxDoll]

@JVM1939 again feminism is about equality for both genders so yea ur point is invalid, did I say for u to go to afghan to protect these women? No I used it as an example how women r still treated differently in today’s time. The men over there have way way more rights, even a 2 year old little boy has more rights than a grown adult woman. If you don’t see that as an example how women are not equal to men today then ur part of the problem. You wanted an example of how men have a privilege and I gave you one and you took it personal.

[JVM1939]

@MinxDoll in dozens of countries, women have a lower retirement age even tho they have a larger life expectancy. In most of the countries where military service is mandatory, it regularly is male-only, why weren't women included in the draft last year? Female circumcision is banned in many countries, yet there's not a single country where male circumcision is banned. You want me to continue?

[MinxDoll]

@JVM1939 when did this become a competition between who has it worse? Where did I say that men don’t have some issues too? Feminism is about equality, you asked for an example of how men have an advantage over women and gave you some, male circumcision can’t be compared to female circumcision at all, the female one is banned because it only causes harm, the male one is a choice for parents and it can help the male so it won’t get infected and again it’s not forced. The draft is regularly male because male are inherently stronger and taller, as well the rape statistic in the military service that women experience (men can still be raped but it’s higher w women in that service). What am I a 5ft woman who can’t pick up 50lbs supposed to do against an enemy that’s a man who is way stronger and taller than me, it’s not a fair fight. I don’t get why your triggered you asked for 1 example on how men have more rights than women and I gave you one and your dragging it on. I never said men don’t have issues, but the unequal draft can’t be compared to women getting stoned to death if they accidentally show their ankle.

[JVM1939]

@MinxDoll so now male genital mutilation is good? Over 100 boys die every year because of it. How will you explain to a man that lost his penis during infant circumcision that it has benefits? You said you want equality, equality means if men have to sign for the draft, women should as well. So what “equality” are you talking about when women clearly have more rights than men

[MinxDoll]

@JVM1939 u said circumcising which is a very common practice in America where I am from and there’s no complications so I don't know bout ur country, and last time I checked it’s a choice circumcising isn’t forced. And again it would not be equal if women joined due to the unfair advantage physically that men have over women it’s just biologically makes sense and is a smart decision, ofc if the country needed a draft they would want the stronger taller gender to win it’s common sense. And again I don't know why ur so triggered when I gave u an example on how women don’t have equal rights and you took it as I said men don’t have their problems when I never said that, either read again or don’t be a snowflake.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

https://youtu.be/_ucR-1NodAs https://youtu.be/guuPHxg4XXc this video pretty much debunks all of your agenda. You say you don't ignore men's issues because it apparently about "equality" so the question is why not just equality? Why does it even have to be feminism? An obvious response would be "because men (whatsoever)" while saying you don't ignore men's issues so it's kinda contradictory to start your explanations with those words. But really, feminism is not even a synonym to equality however egalitarianism does and it's not that hard to support in equality itself but no. The label is much more important to you. There are those feminist who say men can't be feminists, the radical feminists, choice feminists and so on. All claiming their own version of feminism is the real feminism which proves you all can't agree on what feminism should be. But of course you all have that one thing in common. Defending that label because of the "patriarchy" AKA just like saying "Because men" like what i was talking about earlier. Why can't you also blame women and the matriarchy? Double standards? Sorry (not sorry) to break it to you but you know action speaks louder than words i'm not act alone is not about equality.

[Anonymous]

Feminism is obviously synonymous with man-hating. I get so tired of people saying "but that's not real feminism". Of course it's real feminism. Feminism is as feminism does.

[turtleBurtle1583]

Feminism back in the late nineteenth century was definitely nothing like man-hating, ALTHOUGH, modern day feminism is 10000% synonymous with man-hating. There is maybe a good 1% of feminists that don't man-hate but that's it.

[MCheetah]

Actually if you look up the Seneca Falls Convention, you'll see it was extremely hateful to men, even back then. (Unless you're looking a biased source, I guess.)

[turtleBurtle1583]

Thanks for the tip, I'll go research it.

[BluishGaze]

It wasn't supposed to be.

But these days... it is what it is.
Honestly, I don't think women have much use for it anymore. Not in the West, anyway.

[venus1997]

If you think feminism is "man hating" you need to do some research. Its about equality for BOTH sexes, not just women.

[JesseJayNeak]

Prove it

[venus1997]

@JesseJayNeak You need to do your own googling and reading, not asking a random person on the internet.

[VanillaSalt]

Men don’t see it that way. WE’RE used to this and we spent our lives growing into our role meanwhile feminists wanna take the only thing men have grown up being told is their purpose in life…

Men never asked you to fight for our rights you just assumed what was good for women was good for men.

[JesseJayNeak]

So you’re capping

[JesseJayNeak]

And if you really knew what you were saying then you would have proved it. Your answer shows what you said is cap

[Evan64]

It was at one point. Not anymore.

[JVM1939]

Then go and sign for the draft in case of a war

[Evan64]

@JVM1939 Right. Modern feminists talk about equality but very few of them would ever sign up for a draft in the event of war. The ones who do or would... all the respect in the world for. They're actually about it. Sadly, most really aren't about equality these days.

[Juxtapose]

Absolutely, they are about as much for equality as an orwellian department of peace is for peace.

[Dargil]

Not always, but many of them are misandrist. Don't have sex with them, marry them, work for them or let them teach or raise children.

[Anonymous]

No? Feminism being "man-hating" is a. just a notion pushed by incels and right-wing and b. some actual misandrists trying to co-opt the movement. I've heard feminists give good explanations on how traditional "masculine" values are causing men to hold themselves to unrealistic standards, in both appearance and relationship goals.

>Literally a dude

(lol time to get downvoted to hell by 4chan)

[Mango77]

True feminism isn't no it's equal rights which I do believe in it isn't sexism like some are today.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Funny because that's what those men haters say that their version of feminism is true feminism. It seems to prove that you all cannot agree or know each other on what feminism should be but you all have that one thing in common which is defending that label which was created because of the notion that there exists a patriarchy while you ignore men's issues and the matriarchy as well so that double standards proves it. What about masculinism? I'm pretty sure your fellow feminists would hate that word.

[Mango77]

Yeah and I'm not a man hater get you're facts straight mate.

[Mango77]

You don't know me or anything about me so pipe down

[Mango77]

And for you're information it is equal rights it means treating people no differently regardless of sex you're obviously a woman hater then if you want to go down that road I treat everyone the same

[Aiko_E_Lara]

The fact that you're still a feminist is still what i'm talking about. I clearly talked about how you defend that notion as if its more important than supporting equality itself. Really though there's no reason to be supporting that one-sided label unless men are bothering you. It the same thing if i say i support straight pride parade which triggered a lot of lgbt and you're surprised why.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You can say it is equal rights all you want but we all know equality is equality and it's not even a synonym to feminism. However egalitarianism is but they don't call themselves that for whatever reason

[Aiko_E_Lara]

The fact that you're telling me to pipe down and just call me sexist in your conclusion. I'm not even talking about women but i'm talking about feminism which is a really big difference. Just goes to show action speaks louder than words.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

How about if i say i support in equality that's why i am not a feminist? Oh it's not enough? I guess this is more of an equity now is it?

[Mango77]

Are you listening to yourself right now? How closed minded you sound I wasn't defending anyone just clearly stating my opinion you actual retard all I said is I believe in equality how does that make me a man hater? Huh well? No because it doesn't I could really roast you right now but I actually can't be asked because people like you are boring and self entitled 😴

[Mango77]

So boring I know that flies have more personality would really love to stay and chat but I'm obviously too busy hating men ;)

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yeah call anyone close-minded when you don't even try to figure out why feminism is considered toxic for society. You like to be comfortable with your ignorance sucking your thumb and wondering why. So you're starting to sound like those choice feminist who just wants to become a feminist by choice because they just think it sounds cool. Oh i don't know you? Isn't it ironic when someone assumes anyone is sexiest just because they disagree with a movement?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

That's right, being educated is boring so that's why dropouts like you never learn

[Mango77]

With you're attitude I wish you goodluck

[Mango77]

Dropouts? I didn't dropout school I stayed on to college for 4 years

[Mango77]

You don't have to agree with what I say but being a petty asshole won't get you anywhere in life im so bored of you're shit go talk to someone who actually cares?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

With your brain i wish you good luck. But i guess not jumping to conclusion and calling someone sexist or something else without giving any counter arguments is too much for your small brain to process. And yeah nice anecdote like i buy it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I mean it's always an asshole thing for snowflakes whenever someone gives facts. That's why they just resort a name calling instead of giving proper arguments

[Mango77]

Surprised you've not called me a man beater lol yeah I totally despise men even though some have put me through shit been emotionally abused I still give men a chance yeah im totally a fucking man hating feminist

[Mango77]

Snowflakes? That is so old be original

[Mango77]

Anyway blocking you now was great talking 👄 wish you luck in life with you're narrow mind you're the type to get someone arrested on false allocations because you my friend are scum of the earth on top of the world to you next you're be calling me a racist you are actually a waste of space and act like a sexist feminist would today #woman hater

[Aiko_E_Lara]

So you definitely just prove my point. Of course i have not called you a man beater because because i am well aware that doesn't prove anything just like how you like to call anyone sexist and just give yourself an excuse to be offended just to name call anyone. Oh and it's nobody's fault your been living with those toxic men. Or maybe you did something to deserve it (like what feminist always say to men when they have issues with women) you know i'm just trying to be equal here but yeah you hate equality that's why you're a feminist and it proves so much that you don't support equality

[Mango77]

No I didn't do anything to deserve it my ex was an emotionally abusive piece of shit narcasstic too he was begging me back I was like go fuck yourself no way would I put myself through that again I didn't eat for two weeks and my hair started falling out I'd rather kill myself then get back with him did I say it was anyones fault? No you're not being equal you're being a self righteous dick that isn't equal... equal doesn't discriminate or single someone out it is fair you're just going by what you think my opinion is rather than getting you're facts straight also I never said I support this day and age feminism as its bullshit I support old school feminism nowadays they go im so triggered over memes that aren't even really that offensive going back people just use to go on with it there wasn't as many labels this is the problem its the same with mental health its easy for anyone to say they have it now it makes the ones who actually have it like myself look bad.

[VanillaSalt]

@mango77 this idiots got a point in regards to a few things. Feminists always say only the extreme feminists are man haters however I’ve met exactly one feminist that stands out in my mind that’s not some form of man hater. Every single other instance of feminism I’ve seen in person and online has been off man hating using derogatory terms like incel. And the media itself pushes the extreme version of feminism at every chance. If you push it enough people start to believe it. To counter this more moderate feminists need to speak up. But I don’t see them unless you push them. Then, I don't know if you’ve ever noticed this, but every time you say something assuming involving multiple people the person you’re arguing with says not me. If you ask any man he’s probably a sex god and any women she’s a virgin… we shouldn’t be arguing “not me” we should be fighting narrative as loudly as possible.

Also let’s not be confused about what feminism is actually about. It’s not about equality but women’s rights. I’ve not seen anything feminists have fought for that didn’t directly benefit them in some way.

If women were ahead in 4 spots and behind in 3 the feminists would argue equality in the underperforming areas by women and ignore the others where men are underperforming. From my own experience.

[Mango77]

That's fair enough mate and I get where you're coming from but this guy was calling me a manhater when I treat everyone equally regardless of sex, race etc I'm not even a feminist tbh I just like equal opportunities im pretty open minded to things but this is why I never talk politics etc as it just gets into shit storms I'm 28 cba with it drama why don't people just get on with it and quit bitching

[Mango77]

Also this site tbh is a load of bollocks just people trolling as they don't have any hobbies or talents

[VanillaSalt]

Oh idc about him sucks he’s a duck about it but I wanted to repeat several of his points because for the most part you remained calm during his rant so I figured getting your input would be worth listening to. Many people don’t like and can’t handle or receive criticism with Grace. Most can’t look inwards either. So yeah lol.

[VanillaSalt]

Your not completely wrong. This sites just like society… complete trash except a few people. I use it for a lack of better options to be honest. Ide like to poll much more people on my questions and get real experiences to back up arguments.

[Mango77]

Like to start of with i could understand his point but then he started getting really passive aggressive saying I'm this and that I just lost my cool in the end a true manhater would say all guys are the same, all guys are rapists when we both know that's bullshit and anyone is capable of anything regardless of sex. True

[Mango77]

Society is a scam and artifical. There's some genuine but they are a rare breed. That is fair enough that's what it is really meant for really but people I find are using it like it's Facebook or some vanity show lol

[VanillaSalt]

I’ve seen a darker trend. Society gives people purpose. Guidelines what to expect and how to succeed. Personally between how lost I have been in life, how I feel I’m treated as a man, my failure in dating, my personal experiences with not just women but all of society especially since I work 80% of the time and the other 20% is split between family and sleep, and the unfairness of it all… I’ve went from being the guy to give you the shirt from his back to stepping over your corpse… I’ve actually stepped over a corpse like 3 years also so I’m not being hyperbolic. It’s not that Idc it’s that I can’t allow myself to be tricked into caring. When you care people hurt you and it’s easy to get screwed. Not just betrayed that’s bad enough. But I saw a story like a year ago where a guy went to jail for false allegations of assault when he stopped and helped a woman with a flat tire. It was on camera that’s why he got out… he still lost his job family friends and the respect of society…

The point is… we have distanced people from each other by putting individuality over society. We don’t care for others just our own selfishness. This means men like me and I suspect more women are becoming cold to society and people in response. Society in my opinion plays a pivotal role in the socialization and civilization of people. Without a strong foundation like society to build the individual on and the guidelines society gives us to give us a path to equal success… we become more animalistic and hedonistic in our search for happiness.

[msc545]

Yes, Feminists hate men and have no respect for them.

[noohair]

There is a man hater faction to the woman's movement.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It lowkey is. Feminism had been debunked multiple times and it takes a lot of denial and loopholes to disagree with it. I support equality that's why i'm not a feminist.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Mango77 of course i see that coming. You're just going to block me but yes this is the internet. But in reality you cannot block lawyers and judges so how do you expect yourself to live and just tell me good luck? You need it more than i do

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Mango77 Then if that's the case men don't deserve to be hated and feminists don't deserve to be advocated just because of your personal experience. Your anecdotes doesn't prove anything. You say i don't know you and you don't want me assuming things about you so if that's the case if i don't know you, why should i believe your sob story for your justification of being a misandrist? So yes as much as you like to say i am not being equal then i can easily say the same thing to you feminist generalizing men just based on what you experienced. That doesn't make you any less of a bitch.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@Physics-Man mind mentioning her here so she can see this? Thanks.

[Physics-Man]

@mango77

[Aiko_E_Lara]

@VanillaSalt you claim she is remaining calm while i'm the one who is ranting. I'm just going to remind you i'm not the one initiating the block here. And also you failed to see how she also called me a woman hater so yeah thats "calm" for you. However i'm just saying and there is no way for you to tell the tone of my voice through text before you assume i'm ranting here. I'm just returning her favor so even steven unless you're just being bias tho.

[VanillaSalt]

You gonna try and tell me your weren’t thinking aggressively when typing your waffle? Don’t feel like discussing it anymore

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Ok i can say the same thing to you for accusing me. Like it's just so easy to assume you know.

[anylolone]

Sometimes it's synonymous with communism, fascism and justifying pedophilia as well.

[AviatorTom]

It's not supposed to be but some feminist extremists treat it that way.

[loveslongnails]

Maybe it's morphed into that as far as gen z and millennials, but that's not what it really means. Not at all.

[mikalynn]

parts of feminism became to the point where is men hating im afraid

[MrtoddsWildRide]

Feminism? No
Man hating misandrists that claim to be feminists? Yes

[Wester1967]

Read Dworkin's book "Woman Hating" ... You'll figure it out

[genericname85]

no. they actually hate women too xD cause they fight for shit that hurts women.

[lilly61636]

Officially, no
Though it seems to be the case more and more these days.

[Jay3344]

Women can want to empower the female gender without hate

[valentina4eva]

nope, it’s about equal rights for women

[Still-alive]

agreed

[VanillaSalt]

Without a care for the responsibility that comes with it.

[JVM1939]

Equal rights without equal responsabilities?

[Raperonzolo_Viv]

not all feminists but some are abusing it