An Olive Branch, Because Not All Feminists Are Bad People

[Anpu23]

Alright I have to get properly dressed for this one.... Squire saddle the milk white steed... That's good, make sure that all of my armor is properly polished and:

Yep that's about right.

Okay all joking aside, feminists are usually good people trying to do good things. When you believe feminism is a system that fights for gender equality, and you identify with that statement. It is not inherently bad, there is nothing wrong with that sentiment at all.

So what does your average coffee shop feminist do, go to a few rallies, watch buzz-feed videos, give a little money to NOW or other feminist groups. Argue that the patriarchy hurts men too, feminism is a group working to help men by destroying the need to live up to an impossible standard, that there is a glass ceiling that prevents women from attaining the highest positions in the corporate world, that men earn more then women (yes if you take the average salary of all full time working men and compare it to the average salary of all full time working women there is a difference), they can site rape and domestic violence averages for women off of the top of their head and feel that these figures need to be reduced, etc etc. Again nothing that they feel is shameful or specially harmful. You see, to them feminism is a group of benevolent organizations and people that are working for the betterment of society.

So yes they can have relationships, see men as equals, etc. Simply because there is no conflict in their beliefs that prevent it. I was recently told by a feminist that I do not understand feminism, because this is the view that feminists have of themselves. And any argument to the contrary is quickly attacked and if they can't beat the logical argument the main tactic is blocking and reporting. This is unfortunate because there will never be any real dialogue between anti-feminists/Men's Rights Activists (such as myself) and feminists simply because of the shut down of communication. If I am wrong, point it out to me. I have read many feminist books, and articles and can discuss gender politics from an extremely well educated position, that doesn't mean that I agree with the conclusions, just that I do understand where feminists are coming from.

The question I ask you, if you are wrong, may I point it out to you?

Thanks for your time.

[LogicBomber]

Not all nazi's were bad people, but they followed and were part of a selective ideology which was evil at its core.

Not all White supremacist are bad people but again, they follow and are part of a selective group which is evil at its core.

In the famous words of idiot, man hating feminist, "If you had a bowl of M&M's, and only a few were poisoned... would you eat some?"

The feminist ideology is evil and hate-filled. It has been misandric at its core from its inception. The most quoted, studied, and idolized females of the movement have all been open man-haters.
The biggest groups (Like NOW & UN for women) have stopped equal rights for men and have awarded false rape accusers and other hateful females.

No matter how many times feminist point to their nonsense definition, the actions of the group are the proof of its purpose.

[Djaaay]

Absolutly true...👍

[Anpu23]

I agree completely, but without dialog there is no chance for change.

[LogicBomber]

Dialog is something very few feminist allow. It's "listen to my false victimhood and fake stats but don't dare say anything factual or contradictory which shows otherwise or I will call you a misogynist and silence you."

[Anpu23]

Why do you think I had to put on my shining armor for this one?

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[1truekhaleesi]

I am a feminist and I just want equality. I don't mean in just America, I mean globally. I can't begin to tell you how many people on this site have flipped out when they realized I was feminist. Then they say, "oh you must believe that *insert an irrational and insane belief*" and then I tried to say, "what? No. That is insane." But I never got a chance to defend myself. I can fight for someone in America who was raped and never got justice. And I can also fight for the oppresed women in the Middle East. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I believe men can be raped, I pay for my own birth control, and not every girl is an amazing person literally just because they're a girl.

[Anpu23]

That's why I wrote this, I truly do understand where you are coming from.

[Listening5]

You are one? Ah cmon

[1truekhaleesi]

@Listening5 is that is going to make you lose respect for me, then I don't think I wanted it to begin with. #byefelicia

[Listening5]

@1truekhaleesi I was kidding but it proves what people say, feminists dont have a sense of humor

[1truekhaleesi]

@Listening5 well I have gotten death threats or had death wished on me and my family, for being a feminist, so excuse the hell out me for instantly putting my guard up.

[Listening5]

Why would anyone threaten you just because of that

[1truekhaleesi]

@Listening5 no idea.

[troychapman]

well if you get death threats and wishes just because your a feminist then those people are just as psychotic and bad as the crazy manhating feminists

[1truekhaleesi]

@troychapman yes, I figured that out quickly. Took a quick exit from those conversations

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[DonRomeo]

Both of your examples are for women. And as for males who get raped... rape is not a male issue. The main male issues are prison, conscription, sexual deprivation, suicide, homelessness, unemployment, right to access, female-only support, war deaths, post-9/11 legislation, and villification in the mass media. Among others. Rape is not our primary issue.

[1truekhaleesi]

@DonRomeo calm the fuck down. I never said men don't have problems. Its not a competition.

[Listening5]

@1truekhaleesi Im not sure what you two are arguing about now but in regards to feminists, people will lose respect for you since most people know feminism its not about equality, at all. And most people see through this cult clearly now, the lies and all just dont fly anymore.
Most people care about people in general, as people. Not because of their gender and feminists are always making noise bout being offended and expressing their hate or dislike for most things, specially men. Its too much negativity and people just look for positive things most of time instead.

[1truekhaleesi]

@Listening5 there's plenty of Christian's who are hypocritical, but I don't hate Christians. There's gun owners who actually intend on killing people, but I don't hate guns or gun owners. In fact, there isn't a single group of people that I don't like because I am aware that the world isn't black and white. I don't know why that's so hard for people. People hate being judged unless they're the ones judging. "Maybe I'm just too perfect and it's everyone else that has issues." Scott Disick

[troychapman]

nice save

[Listening5]

@1truekhaleesi sure, whatever works for you. Later

[Frosteh]

No one cares about the coffee shop feminist who adopted the label because that's what the dictionary defines "feminist" as and they want to feel better about themselves.

What people care about is the growing academic field of feminism which is basically a hive of social marxism, identity politics and postmodernism. And the political movement, as well as the institutional feminism that are writing bias rules into law.

These are the feminists that are arguing that only men can rape, that women are always victims. That only men conduct intimate partner violence, that white black people cannot be racist against white people, that if you're not physically attracted to a trans person you're trans-phobic, that men get paid more for the same job than women... and the list of totally mental and incorrect things just goes on and on.

Pretending those feminists don't exist and then claiming to be extending an olive branch is profoundly dishonest and intellectually bankrupt.

If you care AT ALL go and watch the documentary The Red Pill and actually educate yourself on the matter, from more perspectives than just the feminist narrative.

[Annie_Mosity]

I never really called myself a feminist until I came here, then I was TOLD I was one and then attacked for being one. I have also been told what I believe and why it's damaging and sexist... it's bullshit. It's Us Vs Them and it can fuck the fuck off. I see a society that is geared up to oppress EVERYONE. This is done in many ways. Oppressing women with gender stereotyopes is just one small way. For the most part I think SJW's do more damage than they help. My idea of feminism is actually getting out there and cracking on with your life regardless of how society is geared up to pigeon-hole you. Women and men are the oppressors of women (and men are oppressed and sterotyped and pigeon holed too, but we're talking feminism here...). We create these bullshit expectations and hold ourselves and our peers up to them, then blame the opposite gender for seeing us that way... the problem isn't men and women, it's people buying into bullshit because society normalises it... and we are society. This is why people will never reach their potential... we could be getting on with building an amazing civilisation but instead we're on some stupid site arguing about armpit hair... I mean, for fucksake... it's pathetic.

[D_Bone_Steak]

My concept of it is that big government wants to put us in debt... we're slaves that have to work. Wage slaves. They can't have these females staying at home with kids... no, have some other woman watch those kids for pay while she works the barista bar island and dad... is he working too or did he already leave? The modern family. Disconnected from each other, from our kids, and having to work like slaves despite any race or gender.

Men were the slaves, equality has been gained though... enjoy it.

[Annie_Mosity]

@D_Bone_Steak doesn't matter where the females are or where the males are... If you want to be part of society you usually have to shackle yourself in some way... I fucking hate this existence sometimes... It's so utterly pointless and futile.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I can't agree more. That feeling is mutual 100%. But we're surrounded by a bunch of people that feel great about it. How could we summarize our impression of and from this world to where others would understand us?

Basically they bicker amongst themselves of who is oppressed the most and how... they're all slaves though. ... or I should say we actually.

[Annie_Mosity]

@D_Bone_Steak definitely we... As much as I dislike it I am a part of it... Which makes it sting even more I think. I don't try to be understood anymore. I see little point in it... I'm just going to try and enjoy the time I have here and eagerly await whatever the fuck happens next because I just cannot believe this is it. It's so fucking lame! Ha!

[Anonymous]

Does it matter if they're "not all bad"? As if anyone says that.

I'd say the bottom line is that the bad ones are bad, no? Not to mention the one's that seem good but aren't.

It's not like it's a unified movement anyway, and frankly I think it's an impedance to the discussion when people refuse to delineate themselves. If you don't want the same stupid things then you're not the same, so to have to chat about "all feminists" is just a ridiculous thing to me.

As an aside, on the doings of your average coffee shop feminist, those rallies are staged on false pretenses, buzz-feed *should* be considered a joke although they're taken seriously too often, NOW is awful, my contention is that your 'patriarchy theory' is bad so saying 'patriarchy hurts men too' is arguing the wrong issue -- although the point of saying it is to frame the argument in your own terms and in that sense it's a clever tactic. Nobody's standards are higher than feminism's -- save for Islam perhaps. No glass ceiling, the wage difference is *unaccounted for,* until you have proof is has anything to do with sexism then there's nothing to be said. They can cite *the wrong* statistics, interestingly the ones that would best support their argument if not for being most flawed, and yet they're most cited.
"nothing that they feel is shameful or specially harmful"
Depends on what they feel. If what the say is reflective of what they feel then in my opinion maybe there is something to be shameful of.
"to them feminism is a group of benevolent organizations"
I get that, and if it's not -- and signs point to not -- then you're being a useful idiot.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[Zee15]

From what I read it does seem like you have an a pretty good idea about what everyday feminists are and I know that you're not just one of these misinformed idiots so if you wanted to point out some things and maybe have a conversation about it I wouldn't mind. It's always good to do that with others because it's so intresting to have someone look at something and see something different to what you see. There's always an explanation as to how they reached that conclusion and I'd honestly like to know.

[Anpu23]

I am open to conversation, and this was actually very hard for me to write. I doubt many feminists could list the main points of the mens rights movement accurately either so I suppose the question that I have is what do you believe that I believe as an MRA?

[Zee15]

I honestly feel like feminists wouldn't outright disagree with MRA 's beliefs but I think we just feel like your movement almost takes away from ours because it makes it seem like we don't advocate for mens rights. Another thing is that's some of the beliefs, although reasonable and understandable, interferes with some of our beliefs. (Eg the issue with child support) I get that there are women who abuse this but there are a lot of people who benefit from this. Maybe there can be a few changes that can be made but overall we can change it too much just because of the few that abuse it.

[Anpu23]

I plan on making a series of questions and mytakes on this subject linking them to each other. I honestly hope to open up comunication with a view to understanding each others positions. Too many people are at each other's throats over these issues for any real advancement to be done. We speak the same language but come from such a different world view that without aome middle ground we'll continue to become more and more fractured and unable to find a place where we can sit down together.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[Anonymous]

The word "feminist" contains the latin sub root "fem". The word in itself denotes promotion of womens rights only... but some people like the Take Owner are trying to twist that...

I'm sorry, but if you believe are for true gender equality than you are NOT a feminist. You are EGALITARIAN.

I have met women who have brought fair and logical arguments to the table about female issues and AND actually LISTENED to the opposing arguments with an open mind. They don't mix emotion and logic together like water and oil. These women might identify as "feminists" but they really are just egalitarian.

A prime example is the classic "wage gender gap" is purely based on baby math. All feminists did was add up the total salaries of working women and divided it about about of working women. Then did the same with men... and all of the sudden THEIR IS A WAGE GAP. No attention to the fact men often seek out more stressful jobs, overtime and make greater sacrifices to get ahead. Men also take on the "dirty work" riskier blue collar jobs (account the vast majority of work related fatalities). Explicit gender discrimation in salary payouts is illegal plain and simple.

Someone who really believes in gender equality would listen to the details to the point they might be proved wrong. The 3rd wave "protesting" feminists sure as fuck don't do that... EVER.

[DonRomeo]

I absolutely respect what you're trying to do here. Its what I wish for the world - for men and women to open up a dialogue and to work with eachother, not against, to understand and practically accommodate our differences. I wish you luck in this endeavour. I just dont think that Feminazis are the ones to address this discussion at!! There are plenty of lovely female people on this site, lets talk to them about it :)

[anonnnnnnnn]

Awww

[Anpu23]

The next part of the conversation www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn

[RationalMale]

Problem is, it doesn't matter what the word means or the official ideology or how many sweet feminists thwre are.

The word is gone down the toilet. It might as well say in the dictionary "feminist" adj: overweight woman with purple hair who hates men, loves her 3 cats, files false eye rape charges.

[MzAsh]

Doesn't matter as long as there are people standing up for the issues women face.

[RationalMale]

@MzAsh feminists are a bad joke. In the USA and Europe they wail over men approaching them in coffee shops or supposed pay gaps, then they work to import literal rape culture from arabia and africa. Women hoping someone will put them in their place and be Christian Grey.

[MzAsh]

Christian Grey lol. I think he becomes the submissive in the end. Anyway, he's a tool in the movie. Completely unattractive.

[RationalMale]

@MzAsh lol no, he started as a submissive. And curious, no opinion on how feminists strongly support importing literal rape culture?

[MzAsh]

The thing about the story is she always gave her consent. SHE was the one in charge of what does or doesn't happen.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[RationalMale]

Too bad the rape culture feminists are importing doesn't ask for consent nor look attractive.

[DeeperMeaning]

Feminists just need to be honest about their interests. They're only interested in "equality" in regards to women vs men. When it comes to men vs women they are almost always silent which means it's not really about equality at all. Also, men and women are just different and it seems feminist ideas keep trying to push this idea that we are the same in nearly all areas. No we are NOT. We are equal in terms of basic human rights, but we are opposites to compliment one another. Feminism supports dysfunction and confusion. It's satanic.

[raspberry0416]

"When it comes to men vs women they are almost always silent which means it's not really about equality at all."
Because feminists are advocating from the women's side. Other people can advocate for men, sure, but don't expect feminists to do it.

"Feminism supports dysfunction and confusion. It's satanic."
Don't drag religion into this.

[DeeperMeaning]

@raspberry0416 It is satanic so don't tell me what I can and can't bring up. And like I said, feminists need to be HONEST. If it's only from a woman's side and only focused on women's rights then it is NOT about equality. It was NEVER about equality. You can't have equality without addressing issues for BOTH sides. So feminists need to be HONEST and stop preaching equality when equality is not what they desire.

[DrTruth]

"When you believe feminism is a system that fights for gender equality, and you identify with that statement."

If this is true, then why are feminists:

- Not fighting to abolish alimony?
- Support affirmative action.
- In favor of military physical standards for women ( push-ups, pull-ups, sprint) be less than men's standards.
- Not funding social programs for homeless men. It's just women and children.
- Picketing the unfair family court laws where children are awarded child custody and child support to women 90% of the time.

If feminism is all about "gender equality", shouldn't we see feminists also fighting for male inequality? Show me one feminist fighting for men's rights too and I'd support that "Not All Feminists are Bas People".

[Rinedee]

Exact

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[D_Bone_Steak]

Equality is 2nd wave stuff...3rd wave feminism is about female superiority and thanks to intersectional feminism, it's included race/sexuality/religion/intelligence/body weight and a slue of nonsensical arguments into the "victim olympics." The winner is who can claim their "group" are the biggest victims. But I digress...

Bottom line is equality has been won. Equality of outcome is not the same as equal opportunity. I mean can you answer this simple question... What is one right men have that women don't have?

I can't even take any counter argument seriously unless they can answer that simple question.

[Anpu23]

The next part of the conversation www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn

[D_Bone_Steak]

The link leads to a 404 error message.

[burpzzzzz]

You are only repeating crap without doing any actual research. The wage gap has been debunked so many times. If women are truly paid less for same job, education, hours and performance, employers would only hire women.
Do you know more women prefer a male boss over a female boss? If you want to higher up you have to work more and take on more responsibility. You are assuming men are oppressing women which is bullshit. You women oppress yourselves.
Women are raping boys and you feminists have a blind eye for that. Studies have been more women are violent against men.

[Anpu23]

You misunderstand, I said this is what feminists think, not what I think. This was literally just an attempt to open dialog. If you do nothing but attack then you hit that brick wall, so I am trying a different approach.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[ATuairiscean]

I share your view that in a lot of beliefs there are extremists who give that belief a bad name and most people who campaign for rights are just after the same thing as most of us, a raising of the minimum rights afforded to people, they feel they can do it better by concentrating on one particular group of people as a way to make sure everyone gets to a minimum level - Never would they agree to increasing their rights to push another group below the minimum - They want to get on a par with others not overtake them.

[Anpu23]

That is not my view, please don't put words in my moith. I feel that feminism is evil and has done more harm than good but I don't think that many feminists know how evil the organization that they support really is. But without dialog there will be no charge.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Debate gets so tiresome after a while. For you, it’s exciting to debate with a feminist (or what have you) about the differences in your beliefs. I imagine you don’t have the opportunity to do it very often.

Feminists are constantly asked to defend their beliefs. It’s like you log on to the internet and there is yet another random person telling you that you’re wrong and bad and that you need to explain your beliefs. I don’t have the energy to indulge sea lions anymore. I don’t have the energy for debate. There is no escape from having to defend myself, and I just cannot stand to try any longer.

[Anpu23]

You know it's interesting as most MRA's are constantly under attack as well. Just look at the backlash from "The Red Pill." I honestly wanted to just open up dialog, not debate but instead try and bridge the gap. But I certainly know where you are coming from.

[Opinion Owner]

I don't think it's to the same degree. I believe that usually people who want to debate with MRAs think they're halfway reasonable, and don't come out of the gate with the personal attacks. Personally, I agree that it's a problem that men aren't often granted sole custody when they petition for it - though this is more rare than when women do so. I wholeheartedly believe that most of the problems men face in society could be remedied through feminist ideals; for example, the idea that men are not inherently nurturing (which at least in part contributes to the problem re child custody) could be erased through the abolition of strict gender roles. I'm more for equity than equality. What sense is giving everyone the same footing when it doesn't solve the issues they face at all?

I have made this opinion anonymous on purpose, as I know what the backlash will be for me. I doubt that you will receive rape and death threats for writing this op ed.

[Anpu23]

Probably not, though I have certainly been called a "traitor" or worse. I of course have no experience being a feminist online so I have nothing to judge it by. Honestly I think that most people think that the MRM is all about getting laid (thanks to the red pill sub-reddit, and a bunch of hash jobs by various media outlets). Anyway there will be no change without people on both sides of the isle coming to the table. Thank you for your input. If your interested in continuing the conversation the next part is www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn

[Opinion Owner]

Being called a traitor is a lot nicer than being stalked on all media platforms, and sent photos of guns and plane tickets to your city. Just saying.

[Anpu23]

Agreed, I have no idea what you have been through... And I certainly wouldn't want that for anyone. No one should be Doxed or threatened or mistreated for their beliefs.

[macix670]

You know what they say? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Aside for equality between men and women, Feminism is teaching women to be promiscuous, avoid marriage and become obese.

Feminism glorified single parenthood and all those single mothers depend on government welfare which is a drain on society as a whole.

Not to mention, their ardent support for abortion which I believe is wrong.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[Listening5]

You know its BAD when you have to reassure people that feminists are not all bad people.
Because you know they are well known for being what people already know and have well gained that reputation. Your mytake proves it.

[Anpu23]

I agree, this was all about opening up dialog.

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[Redstang88]

I've never thought otherwise, I'm good friends with a few lowkey feminists. Doesn't change that they're fighting issues that don't exist

[Anpu23]

The next step www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn Let's continue this conversation.

[CubsterShura]

To me, it has always been about stopping to oppress women and encourage people to give women the love, respect, care and credit (for their silent contribution to the economy) that they well deserve. They say women overcomplicate things but I don't know how men bring topics like chivalry and paying on dates here. They are the ones who actually complicate things lmao. Feminism is very simple.

[Margillard]

Never would I ever date a feminist, I would rather masturbate, porn is free.
www.avoiceformen.com/.../

[Darksoul98]

I'll never be at peace with feminism, it's one of the most toxic, hypocritical, bigoted movements in history. There are so many double standards, men are shamed for liking healthy women. Okay for women to only want tall guys. Feminists want all the cushy high paying jobs just for having a vagina. A woman gets to decide to be a parent, men not so much. No domestic violence shelters for men. Feminists are a bunch of misandric lying assholes. Male feminists are even worse, supporting treating men like shit, in hopes of getting laid. Not gonna happen, girls hate nice guys.

[Anpu23]

I do not disagree at all. The next part of this conversation.
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn

[Investigator]

That's a lot of words to say nothing at all.

TL;DR Not All feminists are cancer and "feminism means equality" (even though it doesn't, but let's just say--for the sake of argument--that it does).

How are you (or feminists in general) making things more equal between the sexes? Men still get a raw deal in society and most feminazis consider them the root of all the problems in the world, you got a solution for that?

[Anpu23]

I am not a feminist this was an attempt to open dialog. Here's the next part of this conversation www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q2675429-feminists-your-turn