Is Feminism A Bad Thing? Are Feminists Evil?

Is Feminism A Bad Thing? Are Feminists Evil?

A recent myTake on feminism begins with ‘Feminism constantly claims to be "FOR EQUALITY" if you suggest otherwise, you will quickly and often quite rudely or aggressively be confronted with this definition: "the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities" ’ That is followed by “At NO POINT will you ever be given proof of this definition…” Excuse me, but a definition is a definition. It needs no proof. By definition a car is a vehicle. No proof is needed, it is just the definition. So regardless of anyone’s opinions on “the movement” or those who espouse it, it is what it is.

The writer then stated a list of what she called “false mantras” and stated they were endlessly debunked lies. The “lies” she was talking about were conclusions and facts from respected sources. For instance the “lie” that women generally make less for the same work. Though many women are able to break the constraints of their gender, most still face less compensation for the same work.

The Take then lists many cases of actions that seem to “prove” feminists are bad people. All it really proved was that there are some people who will do bad things among any group, and that some things are taken out of context to cast a group in a bad light.

So let me state some truths about feminism and feminists, starting with a definition of feminism taken from Wikipedia: “Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.” That is what feminism is by definition, and no proof is needed for the definition. Who actually believes that equal rights is a bad thing?

And what is a feminist? Again from Wikipedia: “Feminists are people, both men and women, who believe in equal rights for females. Some active feminists may campaign for equal educational, economic, political and social rights. However, most feminists are passive in their approach but still strongly hold the view that men and women deserve equality within these domains.

It is a common misconception that a 'feminist' is a term relating just to women when in fact, many modern day men identify as feminists.”

Notice that feminism does not proclaim the women are equal to men. It states that women have equal rights. I don’t see anything bad in that!

Now who are some of the “terrible” feminists? Let’s start with this group:

These are feminists who believed that women should have the right to vote (picture from HarpersBazaar online). Most people have shed their cave man mentality and agree with that now, though many still harbor the belief that women can’t think and should not be able to vote. It appears that if you are anti-feminist, you are against women having the right to vote.

Elizabeth Blackwell was the first woman to graduate from medical school in the United States. (1849) Women in medicine were not accepted before that and most were still fighting it long after that. She was one of many women pioneers who fought for the right to practice medicine as long as they were qualified. If you are anti-feminist, you are against women doctors.

Without women like Rosie the Riveter taking over the “men’s jobs”, America would have failed during World War II. Women stepped up and proved they can do it while keeping America running and turning out goods needed for life here and for the war effort. Nobody complained about feminists then. Nor did they dare say that women could not do the job which they were obviously doing.

In simpler ways, feminists are making their mark in society all the time. Barbara Walters became the first female co-host of any news show, yet true to discrimination against females, she made only half as much as her male co-workers.

I cannot see any sane person believing that somebody should be judged solely on their gender, ignoring all other qualifications. Yet constantly people who should know better stand up and say something totally stupid.

I do not advocate the harmful actions of radical feminists. Nor do I advocate the harmful actions of any group. And I do not support the suppression of people trying to bring about equal rights for any legal, non-hateful group.

So how can you recognize a feminist?

Anyone who supports equal rights for women.


Most Helpful Girl

  • Thank you for making really good points. I like how you put emphasis on the definition of feminism. I myself have a dilemma where I don't know if I'm a feminist or not because on one end I stand for equal opportunities given to women but on the other I don't agree with a lot of modern feminism issues or think of myself as sexist or a man hater like people claim feminists are. It makes it difficult for me cause what I see on the internet every day how feminism supposedly is I can't reflect that to real life where I've never experienced this so called feminist hate. Only on the internet do I see people whine and complain about the issues and dilemmas but in my every day to day life I experience none of it so that makes it incredibly hard for me to take things seriously in all honesty. I think plenty of people are just incredibly confused about it.

    • Thank you for your time on this. I think that much of what I tried to convey was better said in another Take shortly after mine. If you have not yet read please do so. It makes many excellent points and should clear some of your confusion.

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    • Asker: both men and women should be supporting rights for both genders.

    • @Applefan1 - A woman channeling her support (money) to breast cancer is not saying that prostate cancer is a waste of time nor is she laughing at it.. Not any more than my supporting the fight against the cancer that took my wife's life. Too many people twist the fight against something as not caring about anything else. And that is what I see from those who say that feminists don't care that some men have difficulties, too.

Most Helpful Guy

  • Oh my gosh, here I was prepared to read another anti-feminist mytake and try not to get pissed, and, well, here I am, being so happy.

    This is what I am, a feminist. I'm so glad you put it into these words because it can be hard to sound rational when you're angry at all the irrational arguments against your 'side' cx
    I failed at making this mytake so I'm glad you did. Kudos, support, and YES to FEMINISTS.


Join the discussion

What Girls Said 37

  • Being a femininazi is a bad thing, being a feminist is not.

    Real feminist just want equality.
    Feminazis want to rule the world with their vaginas and blame guys all the time.

    • Okay, i can buy that. But there are some people who put all feminists in the basket that is reserved for feminazis.

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    • *I'm not interested in arguing with you

    • @rose004b lol yeah, I'd never block someone while arguing, but I see arguing as something pointless, no one will agree with the other because they have different views, and that's fine by me, if I can't make them change their minds... fine, variety is what makes the world interesting.
      I was annoyed by this whole thing being done in my fucking post, I hate notifications so much and Eugene knows it. I didn't want to shut him up, but he's stubborn as fuck lol

  • ah. I'm glad I won't be on this site for some months to see this feminism feminism.

    feminism isn't about equal rights and it barely was in the first movement. equality is something that needs to be defined before being used. and it doesn't have a single definition as it doesn't exist in the physical world. It's just a mere perfectionist concept that may or may not be artificially possible to happen under certain conditions.

    either way, I don't care about the early first wave.

    but anyone who says second and third wave feminism is about equality and/or is needed in our today's society is simply ignorant about the society.

    "Without women like Rosie the Riveter taking over the “men’s jobs”, America would have failed during World War II."

    I think you should read the ancient societies history to see how women took men's jobs during war without needing an organized leftist political group. American women would help the society in WWII with or without feminism but without feminism a great source of extremist socialist movements empowerment in Europe would be nonexistent and so there would be less chance to have a war to begin with.

    two fifth of lakedaemonia was held by women because of the marriage customs and the warlike society that leaded many of its men to early death. women held ruled had their freedom based on their social class since ancient times. and I can clearly see how women had such "bad" time in the old society compared to men.

    the peasant woman of yesterday is still getting raped in the Ghetto. forced to hard labour and prostitution. the middle class woman is still bitching about her relationship with her man. nothing have changed. just people labelling themselves and making things worse.

    some beautiful quotes from a dissident feminist. a real educated intelligent woman not a 17 year old internet feminist. a woman who wouldn't call herself a feminist by its today's standards:

    - "If feminism has receded in visibility and prestige, it is precisely because its vision of life's goals and rewards has become too narrow and elitist."

    - "Young feminists have been sold a bill of goods about American feminism. The enormous changes in women over the past 40 years are constantly and falsely attributed to the organized women's movement of the late 1960s and '70s."

    - "Feminism is dead. The movement is absolutely dead. The women's movement tried to suppress dissident voices for way too long. There's no room for dissent. feminist...

    • …ideology is like a new religion for a lot of neurotic women, you can't talk to them about anything."

      - Camille Paglia

      it is 2015 and I'm an antifeminist and will always remain so. not because I'm against equal education platforms for sexes when it is available for the society to provide nearly everyone with what they need in their way of developing themselves, but because I am against nonsense.

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    • - Rosie the Riveter also quit said job after a few days because it was too hard.

      - Quite some early suffragettes had ties to the KKK and the KKK was supporting them. Those suffragettes were only wanting white women to vote and the KKK obviously thought it would benefit the white superiority.

      - The white feathers shamed and pressured underage boys into war.

      - Most 60's big name feminists have had serious mental issues (being in psychiatry, abusive relationships, drug abuse/addiction, suicide attempts, etc). People seriously want to glorify those nutcases.

    • - Women could vote before the suffragettes. The reason they didn't was because the vote was related to land ownership and the land ownership were - as the head of the family - in the hands of the men. When he died though for whatever reason the women voted and there are documents about it. What truly changed, and that changed before the suffragettes, was that you could vote WITHOUT land ownership and the suffragettes in this development were simple opportunists.

      I could go on, but I am way too lazy. End of the story is that its a corrupt and toxic movement since the 60s (including the big 60s names) and the suffragettes do not deserve the glorification they receive either.

      Also fuck biology for disproving the naive equality thinking. People are different. Can't make it right for everyone. Shit happens.

  • "“But, of course, you might be asking yourself, 'Am I a feminist? I might not be. I don't know! I still don't know what it is! I'm too knackered and confused to work it out. That curtain pole really still isn't up! I don't have time to work out if I am a women's libber! There seems to be a lot to it. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?'
    I understand.
    So here is the quick way of working out if you're a feminist. Put your hand in your pants.

    a) Do you have a vagina? and
    b) Do you want to be in charge of it?

    If you said 'yes' to both, then congratulations! You're a feminist.” "
    ― Caitlin Moran, How to Be a Woman

    • lol. True. but some guys are feminists, also. And guess what? No vagina. But I am with you 100%.

    • Oh yes of course,.. I realize I failed to really answer your question, its not bc i don't care, i've just responded to so many of these i start to feel like a broken record.. As for the quote i just thought it was funny and handy as can be a bit of comic relief as well as helpful reminder for some.

      It made a point and made me laugh.. I can't say that about a terrible amount of things. :)

      Great post:-)

    • Thank you so much for those very kind words.

  • As a female, I feel that sometimes feminists need to shut the fuck up and not make everything about them.

  • You sound like my boyfriend! :)
    not to mention people often overlook the reasons we still need feminism. Like female genital mutilation, before some guy whines about male circumcision most feminists are against that too and feel people should have a choice when they get old enough but male circumcision is nowhere NEAR the same level and FGM. In fgm victims the cut off the external part of the clitoris (which is comparable to cutting off the entire head of the penis) then they sew her entire vaginal opening shut except for a tiny hole to let out pee and periods and often causes debilitating infections. THEN on her wedding night and often CHILD bride has her healed wound sliced back open so she can be raped and then likely suffer more infection from having the skin that was sewn over her vaginal opening sliced again. There are issues like women not being able to get an education, women having no control or choice over their own bodies, rape of girls being videotaped and posted so people can bully them about their trauma, Honour killings of women and girls by their own male family members, domestic abuse, wage gaps, child marriages of little girls to abusive old men. And I do realise that some of these issues (mainly rape and domestic abuse) affect men too and it is just as serious and must be fought against too though not as rampant. But I see men always bringing up little things like who pays for dates and ignoring the big human rights issues to nitpick at tiny things... I do love treating my boyfriend to a nice night out but people have to realise that ending human suffering is more important than who holds a fucking door open!

    • I don't know your boyfriend, but I know that you must be complimenting me to say that I sound like him. :-) Thank you for sharing your insight.

    • yeah that was a compliment haha

  • Thank you for clearly defining feminism for the masses. Too many people don't know what feminism means and take some biased opinion fed to them without even checking facts.

    I am a young feminist, I am especially supportive of women's health and the right to choose. Too many young women think we don't have to stand up for these rights because we've had them. No, right-wing politicians are trying to take away our basic rights, and we still have to fight as hard as women did 50 years ago, and throughout history. I am appalled by the amount of ignorance from women who owe their status to equality. (Read about famous people like Stacey Dash and Kaley Cuoco who don't know the meaning of the word.)

    Feminism is a socio-economic-political issue. It's simple: Men and women treated equally with the same opportunities available. All should be held to the same standards in the workplace, old fashioned gender roles are outdated, and all people should be allowed support in times of need-- whether it be health care or parental leave. (I can't say anything about government assistance, but what do you want to bet there's sexism thrown in there too?) We also need to break the tradition of teaching boys male entitlement and end rape culture. Nobody owns another person or is allowed access to their body without consent, period. I think that's the best basic summary I can provide. Keep fighting the good fight!

    P. S. Young feminism isn't synonymous with Lena Dunham, she is not our poster child

    • Though I have tried to explain feminism, but as you can see, there are many who will continue to believe what they want and ignore reason. Thank you for your opinion.

    • There's no getting through to some people unfortunately. There will always be the same biased opinions thrown around. In this day and age I respect people who form their own opinions, and that's becoming more uncommon.

  • It honestly depends I think the word feminism has lost its true meaning and it's true image, likewise with some feminists, which have lost their true purpose. I'm pretty sure some feminists do it to get revenge on men or to point fingers at them, it's like one of those people who fake an accident like purposefully spilling water and purposefully slipping on it in a store to sue the owners of the store for having water there. They're starting problems were there aren't any. They don't hold the true title of a feminist. A true feminist stands up for actual women's rights and is still aware some men suffer the same problems. They don't over exaggerate things and they believe in equality. Like myself. I think some people forget that there are still women like that and totally treat the word 'feminism' horribly.

  • Reading a few of the comments on this was somewhat unnerving. Several of you don't seem to know the true purpose of this movement. Yes it is to advance women, but not to be above men, merely beside them. Saying men are often a source of the oppression we face is not to belittle them, but to encourage thought and compassion so we can all move past our differences toward equality. Now, just because someone is angry about a situation does not mean we all hate another group. We are aware that misogyny is ingrained, but what you're unaware of is we just want it to stop being perpetuated. Now think about this, a masculine man is ideal, a feminine man is a joke, a feminine woman is weak, and a masculine woman is an abomination. Notice a pattern? When someone calls out harmful behavior, regardless of the source, you don't blame the victim. You just don't. Where is the logic in that? And speaking of, you all should be aware that most, if not all, of your male issues stem from misogyny, not feminism. Your masculinity is threatened because you're not as tall, as athletic, you cried as an adult, your boss is a woman, or a gay man hit on you? Those ideas had been established long before feminism came into the picture. Male rape victims not taken seriously l, even by rape "advocates"? Misogyny did that too. There aren't enough shelters for homeless men, blame the patriarchy for defining and valuing a man solely on his ability to be strong and fully competent. All. Day. Every. Day. Now, you cannot tell me you aren't a feminist because it doesn't support equality when clearly you aren't because the patriarchal structure of our society has made you believe that anything even remotely feminine is weak, evil, worthless, less than human, and will make you that way too. . L

    • Excellent. Thank you very much!

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    • THIS! YOU SUMMED IT UP PERFECTLY. Guys who have a problem with feminism misunderstand that equal rights and opportunities for women don't impede on men's rights or their manhood. And that's a problem enforced by patriarchy.

    • *Directed towards @Mickii

  • ummm I can be an anti-feminist and that dpesn't mean I think any of those are true... it means I am an equalist which is very much different than a feminist but I still believe in women's equality it just so happens I believe in men's too

    • I believe in men's rights to opportunities, etc., but recognized that women are still behind. And so the main effort is needed on that side of things.

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    • "To me it doesn't matter who is more behind" If a hungry man wants food, and I starving man is medically needing food, would you say it does not matter who needs it more? the starving man would get my attention first.

    • Or they could get food at the same time. Not to mention here in Canada I don't think any gender is in more need than the other

  • Wow, AMEN to this! :)
    I especially like that this take was written by a man, prove that not all men think they are 'simply better than women' which is what I got as an answer of so many guys to my feminist question..

    • Thank you for your opinion. :-)

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    • Then you must accept that women can be better than men, too sometimes ~ however talking in general you must see that they're just equal I just don't get why that's so hard for so many men wth.. @oracle12c

    • @Jxpxtxr

      Naturally women can be better than men, and often are - not just sometimes, it really depends more on the issues than anything.

      Women are both inferior and superior to men, because women and men are different. Men and women are not equal, but should have equal rights and opportunities.

      And no gender is better than the other, just different with skills being better, worse or the same depending.

  • I prefer the term equity because I don't think that equality really quite captures what the movement is hoping to achieve. For example, if you had a room full of people take off their shoes, put them in a pile, mix it up and then each take two, that would technically be a demonstration of equality (because each person had two shoes). It wouldn't matter if someone got two left shoes or two different sized shoes because everyone would have two shoes.

    In an equitable situation, each person would be given a properly fitting pair of shoes. Gender equity means everyone gets what they need to be successful.

    • The two words are not identical in meaning and nothing is wrong with your thought. But equality means "the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities." And the status, rights, and opportunities are exactly the things that feminism is try to make equal.

    • I'm aware. I do not consider equality to go far enough to rectify the disadvantages created by the patriarchy.

    • "I do not consider equality to go far enough to rectify the disadvantages created by the patriarchy."

      Patriarchy... please provide the documentation of the patriarchy legislation in the US or EU?

  • Good Take. I seriously can't get my head around why some men complain that this movement only helps women. It doesn't. It actually helps many men, for example it teaches that men don't need to be tall and strong and agressive, because masculinity is social construction.

    BUT, even if feminism didn't help men, so what? Black rights movements don't help Asian rights. So what? Movements have specific purposes and goals. Just because one supports a specific group does not mean they are against parallel movements of other groups. For example, I am a feminists, but I feel strongly about the need to reconsider custody rights for men because some women move half way across the world with their children, denying the man from seeing them. Things like this should have far greater legal discussion.

    People who say that feminists should just call themselves egalitarians should just stop. A label does not define us, it's what we believe and what we do about those beliefs that define us. Plus, egalitarianism is a vague, convoluted ideology with very few active members. so you want EVERYONE to be equal (races, classes, genders etc.) great!! what are you gonna do about it? a label means nothing. get off your butt and put your beliefs into practice.

    Feminism is a spefific active movement, with specific goals and the misogynists on here simply remind me of the need for feminism in 2015. Good day.

    • Love your opinion. You get it. Thank you for reading and writing your opinion. :-)

    • Not just men, men and women. Basically the ones who actually want gender equality and simply don't want to hate men for being men anymore than they want to hate women for being women.

  • Fantastic MyTake, of course feminism is not evil, but there are some extremes in any group or movement in the world.

  • I thought I commented on the myTake, but I guess I forgot. :/
    Anyway, wonderful myTake @Red_Arrow. :)

    • Thank you, but I think you said much of what I said in a better way and added a lot more. I definitely appreciated your myTake. Thank you for your kind words. :-)

  • Answers to your title: Yes and yes.

  • I remember a classmate asking my teacher what a feminist is and he said "Women who hate men". I dislike it when people do that and I'm not even a feminist. There are your regular feminist and then there are your feminist who hate men. My friend is a feminist, I remember her talking about how it's unfair that a women can sport feminine clothing but if a guy is noticeably transgender or comes to school with a tutu, then he'll be made fun of. There are good feminist and bad feminist..

    • Now you have wisdom, recognizing that there are the good and the bad, and it does not paint the whole group. thank you.

  • @Red_Arrow

    Why are you so awesome? You're speaking to me with this MyTake.

    • Do you mean that you think this way, also? I am getting a lot of hate from some people. lol.

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    • Oh, yeah, I can just feel the evil vibes!

      Anyway, great getting to know you. :-)

    • Thanks, it was great getting to know you too.

  • Feminism isn't a bad thing.
    Its the hypocritical individual interpretations and actions that frequently are

    • Yes, but how do you distinguished when Feminism is use or abused as a political ideology, advocateing for discriminatory laws in both the US and EU?

    • That task sadly falls on local government representatives + senates + cabinets that don't necessarily reflect overall public opinion.


  • I like this well written take.

    The only problem I have with feminism are the radical feminists and that non-radical feminists aren't condemning them and actively trying to shame them for smearing the positive image feminism once had.

    • I agree in a way. I am not gung-ho on the moderates shaming the extremists. It takes a bit of hard core to stand up against groups. But I also would like to point out that the positive image you are referring to that feminism once had, was not really so positive. When the suffragettes fought for the right for women to vote, many (most?) men were against them, and so were many women. Suffragettes were often dragged off to jail. Feminism then was not so "noble". Looking back, we see that the "extremists" amongst the suffragettes were the ones that accomplished things and we respect them for what they accomplished. Perhaps someday, many of the current "extremist" feminists will be seen as heroes. I'm not sure how many will, but I expect at least a good number of the will.

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    • Agree with things like meeting the same qualifications. totally. In fact, I thought that it had been decided that way. Maybe someplace other than your local area. I don't know for sure.

    • Wait.. it is? Why do people keep talking as if it's decided that firewomen have a lower bar to pass? -.-

  • More from Girls

What Guys Said 69

  • Feminism is a woman's advocacy movement. There are many different branches of feminism, and the only thing that connects these branches is their advocacy for women. In fact many different types of feminists don't agree with each other as to what is best for women. Some feminists think it is sexist for a man to go to a strip club, yet other feminists want the right to show their bodies for money if they want.

    Even though these feminist groups disagree the average feminist from every branch still tends to blame men for all of their issues. One will accuse men of sexually objectifying women that dance naked, and the other group will blame men for slut shaming women that want to dance naked. These are not the extremists that are always getting blamed for promoting hate toward men. They are just the average feminists that always want to assign blame to men for everything, instead of accepting that men and women within society often won't agree with them.

    Clearly feminism is not for true equality between men and women. In fact if a man even brings up male issues feminists go out of their way to shout the man down. These aren't just the feminist extremists as are commonly blamed. The average feminist simply is not as concerned with male issues as they are women female issues. Nor do feminists even seem to care enough to attempt to shout down their fellow feminists when they step out of line for belittling male issues.

    How would women feel about a man if he was only interested in male issues and shouted down women anytime a woman tried to bring up female issues? Of course she would see him as sexist, which is why men are seeing feminists as sexist. To be for true equality means you look at both sides, and not just one. If feminists really were concerned with fixing male problems then why would so many men be against it? Clearly they are not a movement for equality.

    Not all feminists are evil, but feminism is not a movement for true equality and often is sexist against men. There is nothing wrong with men rejecting such a movement and embracing ideals that are more fair to both genders.

  • Thank you for this thought. As you probably know I am very vocal about this subject, and I will raise a counterpoint: I am not uneducated on this subject, nor am I ignorant that many modern definitions equate feminism to equality (that was not the case 50 years ago when Websters defined it as form of misandry). The problem is that the most vocal leaders of the movement do NOT feel that way! It's easy to say feminism means__________ but when prominent leaders, writers and educators show that they do not mean that, it shoots the myth of out of the water (for an example see:
    It's like saying I am a Marxist but I do not agree with Stalin, well as both are recognized as leaders of the communist movement it's hard from an outsiders perspective to separate the two. Same with feminism, when you search the term, or read some of the authors, or... you get it. It's hard to see things from your point of view.

  • The core concept of it when it was first created no was not, but overtime like any group became corrupted and took a wrong turn and now we are left with the twisted result. I agree with the core concept of it to a point, and do not agree at all with the current group.

    As the Anonymous user below me stated

    "A definition is a definition."
    Yeah, a car is a vehicle but I could call a pineapple a car and the definition of car would remain the same, but I'd be wrong and a complete idiot. Pineapple is to a car like feminism is to a gender equality movement. It doesn't conform to the definition, so I would say "feminism" and the "modern feminist movement" are entirely different kettles of fish.

    The history is irrelevant here, in the past yes feminists did good work but that doesn't mean that just because one takes the label that one is doing good work. You didn't comment on contemporary feminism at all, which is what people really have a problem with.

    "If you are anti-feminist, you are against women doctors."
    Again, it was past feminists that brought about female doctors, the present ones aren't doing such a good job.

    "I cannot see any sane person believing that somebody should be judged solely on their gender, ignoring all other qualifications."
    No shit. Affirmative action, anyone?

  • definition of feminism taken from Wikipedia: “Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities FOR WOMEN in education and employment.”

    Yes it's definition and there's no need for verification that it's only FOR WOMEN. (As written)
    The problem people have is that it does absolutely nothing for men and yes, they help women in achieving their goals for equal rights but their means are ill. They don't ameliorate the women's status but in fact deteriorate the men's liberty to make everything equal.

    And I disagree with your fact that just because the definition of feminism sounds good, it is good.
    Definitions aren't created by god or laws of nature. These are created by humans, modified by humans and discarded by humans.

    For example :-
    ●"Hook up" used to mean getting some kind of device or service or appliance up and running, i. e. "hook up cable television." Today, it also means "hooking up" with someone to have sex or just "hooking up" with someone as in meeting up.
    ●"Fantastic" meant "existing only in one's imagination" centuries ago. Today, it means something is really incredible.
    ●"Sick" used to mean ill. Today, it also means something is really amazing.
    ●'thongs' were another word for flip-flops. Nowadays, thongs are underwear!,"
    ●"Cell used to mean jail! Or a tiny part of your body..." Today, of course, it's also what you call your phone.

    There are awful lot of words whose definitions are changed. Awful? Oh yeah it's also one of those words lol.

    So my point is, definition =/= reality.

    • "The problem people have is that it does absolutely nothing for men". Finding a cure for uterine cancer would do nothing for men. But I can not see anyone having a problem with that. So I fail to see why feminism helping women only is a problem. And though some ways of achieving those goals may be ill, that does not make all of them or even most of them, ill. For instance, the suffragettes were a great thing for humanity. But some of them did bad things to achieve their goal. It does not change that the goal was good, not does it make the efforts of most of them bad.

      The fact that we have added meanings to words does not change the original meaning. "Hooking up" may refer to having sex or meeting, but it still also means hooking up a device. Same with the other words. And each of those definitions can be found in a dictionary. The only definition I find for feminism is what I posted and that is still the meaning of that word.

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    • # 4 concentrated on those jobs where men choose the more intensive or stressful positions within a career. But ignored the jobs where the stresses and other factors are identical, so does not touch on equal pay for equal work.
      #5 argues against the "myth" by stating that the statistics do not compare equal conditions. While earlier reports did not, the info in point 1 did consider positions that had equal conditions of requirements, time, stress, etc., and the author of the article in #5 chose to ignore those facts and conclude that the earlier studies were wrong (we admitted they weren't the exact figures) but ignores the updated facts to conclude that the gap is a myth.

      Basically, reading all these points out that those that call it a myth are ignoring and tweaking to make it seem it is a myth while avoiding the facts. Thank you for proving my points.

      "feminism is such a horrible failure" Worked to get women the vote. Worked to allow women to become doctors. Etc. etc. etc.

    • Your points are proven correct, I hope my grandchildren will be so proud on feminism.

  • "A definition is a definition."
    Yeah, a car is a vehicle but I could call a pineapple a car and the definition of car would remain the same, but I'd be wrong and a complete idiot. Pineapple is to a car like feminism is to a gender equality movement. It doesn't conform to the definition, so I would say "feminism" and the "modern feminist movement" are entirely different kettles of fish.

    The history is irrelevant here, in the past yes feminists did good work but that doesn't mean that just because one takes the label that one is doing good work. You didn't comment on contemporary feminism at all, which is what people really have a problem with.

    "If you are anti-feminist, you are against women doctors."
    Again, it was past feminists that brought about female doctors, the present ones aren't doing such a good job.

    "I cannot see any sane person believing that somebody should be judged solely on their gender, ignoring all other qualifications."
    No shit. Affirmative action, anyone?

  • Like most lect-wing causes, yes, feminism is a bad thing.

    Women already have all the same opportunities that men have, what feminism pushes for these days is not equal opportunity, but equal results, even if an unequal effort is given.

    As is the case with most left-wing causes, they want redistribution, they want something for nothing. If a male surgeon makes $500,000 a year in salary, feminists want the unemployed stay-at-home mom to make that same $500,000, OR they want the surgeon to pay a majority of his salary to be given to various unemployed women, with the final numbers ending up being about the same for take-home pay for each person.

    If you can find an example, ONE example of a man and a woman with equal qualifications, who were hired by the same company, on the same day, for the same job and where the man did NOT negotiate for a higher salary and the woman did NOT take more time off of work than the man, where the woman makes less money, THEN you can tell me women don't get paid the same amount of money for the same work. Otherwise I'm sticking with the fact-based belief that the "gender pay gap" myth came about by litterally comparing male CEO'S to housewives.

    • When you were saying that women already have the same opportunities that men have, I figured you were badly misguided. But when you came up with the idea that feminists want unemployed women to be given the same money as an employed surgeon, I knew you were a nut job and no response is needed.

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    • So you couldn't get it through your head before, don't see why I should try now, you're simply not smart enough to grasp the concept.

      The funniest part is you must be aware that your argument is baseless because you continue to avoid my question like the plague, you have no examples to cite so you resort to "oh that's so stupid I just don't even need to respond" rhetoric. If you had a proper example you should be happy to share it to make me eat my words, but you don't. And all this is after you suffered someone who compared feminism to naziism, a woman nonetheless.

      I saw on at least one other answer you cited the Huffington Post to back up your claims, you are aware that the Huffington Post is a tabloid in all but classification right? The article I've read on there are things I've wondered if they plagurized from the Onion because they're just as credible.

      I can never help but wonder if people like you are just that dumb or if you're just trying to stir up a nest.

    • I have made it clear that the answer are already here. He ignored that. I have given him his shot at his opinion. He has abused that. Let him go on to his own myTake and say what he wants, but I am not putting up with anymore of it here. He is blocked.

  • Fixing what men go through is really more important. Violence, drug addiction, incarceration (1 in out of 100 men has been or is behind bars at this time) rapes, murders, kidnappings, sexual assaults, all mostly committed by males. Most of it is inflicted on other men, and then onto women.

    Fixing these problems, would make it much easier for women in this country. What feminists bring up is reasonable, lots of good points, but it all seems to always be about advertising. The reason why feminism is around is because of men, and yea recognizing and addressing the problems is great, but other things need to be changed first

  • 1|5
    • oh my god im laughing so hard *Ahem*

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    • I don't listen to his show, but the few times I heard bits and pieces it's clear he uses satire just like The Daily Show or the Colbert Report

    • @rjroy3 - I have listened to more than just bits and pieces (till I got too sick to listen to more) He goes far beyond satire. He makes up "facts" instead of satirizing them.

  • I think its sadly funny how its mostly males giving the most disturbing comments. But anyway, I like your my take. It's reasonable, makes sense, and accurately portrays a feminist. I don't like these violent, new age-feminists who want women to walk around naked, because if a male can't do it then she can't in my opinion which is why I believe women should have the right to walk around shirtless if a damn guy can. But I do like feminists who want equal rights for women as men get. I'm more of a person who wants gender equity all around, men and women get treated equally. But it seems people are quick to get men equal rights first, and slow to grant them to women. So I think we need to seriously focus on women first, then guys. Cause lets be honest right now, women are seriously being objectified in society and until we get that shit straightened out, I don't think we can focus on any bit of equity for the time being.

    • Absolutely. You get it. Thank you for your input! :-)

    • Yeah and I've met some "feminists" that complain about being objectified but act like sex objects and love men who see them as nothing more than a sex object and treat them like absolute garbage.

      I'm not trying to sound like one of those whiny, entitled "nice guys" but those types of women aren't helping their cause. Not that all women are like that obviously.

    • To clarify, how do they act like sex objects?

  • The reality is that men and women can never be truly equal. Physically and psychologically we will never be. Men are and have always been deemed masculine. In that we are the seekers of success, the providers, the hunters and gatherers, the dominant and possessing more strength. Women are typically great at being the nurturers, the compromisers, the advisers. And there's nothing wrong with that. But in order for us to live in a truly equal society, men need to be willing to execute and carry out duties that women do. Example, office jobs, medical, college. And women need to be willing to do the deeds that men do. I. E. Construction, sky scraper window cleaner, garbage man, or freaking dying for your country. Sure women occupy some fields that men do but let's be honest the average woman would never want to do jobs like those. Not many women do in fact occupy those fields. Therefore, men and women will never be equal. And I don't think that we are meant to be equal. I think we are supposed to compliment each other. Work together as a fully functioning healthy society. I think we've definitely lost that with the rise of the feminist movement. There used to be a time were men and women did compliment each other. Now it seems as if we're enemies. We freaking hate each other these days. Men face domestic violence just as much if not more than women. Women aren't taken seriously as much as they should be. Fathers are losing it all in divorces and committing scuicide because they can't see their children. Women are less happier than what they used to be. Instead of fighting why dont we just work together? Why do we have to live by what society is telling us to live. Which is a lifestyle of one that is drawing us apart so much that we may not be able to return.

    • The thing is that feminism is not looking to be equal. that would require surgical alteration. They are looking for equality. The opportunity to be given the same chances to prove their qualifications to get a job and to get equal pay for equal work. As for the differences, whil in the Navy is saw many women who could lift heavier weights than guys and who did many "male oriented" jobs better. For example, I saw women handling lines on tugboats. That requires muscle to carry heavy lines, as well as tossing them across the water to piers and other watercraft. Also strong and fast legs to move around quickly while carrying the loads. Many of these women were doing much better jobs that the men alongside of them.

    • No doubt but still today even there is more men in the navy then there are women. There are definitely women who are stronger than men. Not denying that. But statistically and as for the bigger picture. Most women if you talk to them do not want it or won't sign up for a job like that. The seals opensed the doors to women. I'm sure there are women who can make it through buds but how long before a sexual harassment charge is filed against a fellow seal for making a comment about something that's not related to her. There's just no place for women in seals or even special operations communities. They won't be able to shower in the same room. Won't be able to get undressed in the same room. Won't be able to sleep in the same room. Is she going to be able to pop on a tampon on the go in the field. High pathetical? Sure but a very real possibility. Now I've met sme pretty "beefy" girls but even then they will not be able to fully function as a single unit with others male seals.

  • "Without women like Rosie the Riveter taking over the “men’s jobs”, America would have failed during World War II. Women stepped up and proved they can do it while keeping America running and turning out goods needed for life here and for the war effort. Nobody complained about feminists then. Nor did they dare say that women could not do the job which they were obviously doing."

    A little known fact that pretty much sums up feminism: another woman at the factory "Rosie The Riveter" worked at got a serious hand injury from an accident with a metal presser. After that through fear of injury herself she quit the job having worked there only two weeks.

    • WHO quit after working only two weeks? And what factory that Rosie the Riveter worked at? Rosie the Riveter was an icon of the millions of women who joined the work force taking over the "men's jobs" during the war. Not a real individual, but a representation of all the women. Hard to work at the same factory. When trying to spread tales to discredit something, you should at least try to make it believable.

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    • I have actually heard of the Canadian lady, but not of this Rosie at all.

      Yes he would have been shot, and I don't agree with that. Sorry - I thought you'd said she had had an injury... maybe I should learn to read, ha! I don't think that really has any bearing on the point though. I think the point was that women were doing these roles, just because the Poster Girl didn't stick at it doesn't mean the other women followed suit. It doesn't make their efforts any less worthy.

    • @GirlsScoutsRevenge - I'm not denying that, I just think it's funny that they picked her for the posters.

  • The definition you are using is correct... or at least it was. Feminism was originally about equality in social, political and the workplace. This goal was realized and in order to stay relevant the feminist moment started looking for other "issues".

    Now you mentioned the wage gap which is simply untrue. The wage gap compares the average wage of men to women and yes, on average men earn more. On average men also work longer hours in more dangerous occupations.

    Feminist also tend to glorify female sexuality and vilify male sexuality as well as promote unfair family court stands. They also push for vague definitions of sexual harassment which allow women to accuse a man of almost anything.

    This unfair balance harms women just as much as it does men by damaging the relationships between the sexes and is reflective in studies that suggest women in general are less happy than they were 35 years ago.

    • You are totally wrong about the wage gap. It can mean different things. when first publicized, it meant what you said, but more recent studies compared women and men is similar fields, positions, experience, hours worked, etc. And they found that the numbers were different than the earlier studies, but still showed women on the losing end of a significant wage gap.

      Nothing wrong with glorifying female sexuality, and the male sexuality I have seen vilified is that of the males who promote the identification of women as lesser beings, to be used for male pleasure without respect. Their push for changes in definitions of sexual harassment are for more inclusiveness. Not vague, but including forms that were harassment but expensive lawyers were able to confuse issues in court. Newer definitions clarified and made laws firmer, less vague. The relationships between the sexes where women were seen as objects for men's pleasure only were what was hurt. Haven' seen any studies you mention.

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    • women is ok, because women are like children and if they don’t listen, they need pain to learn, so they’re indirectly also justifying to hit children too.

      I agree that you can’t demand to erase all disadvantages first and ignore to erase all the benefits until A is done and expect all men to be okay with it.
      However, you can’t deny that if feminists feel they get less paid for the same work, they also see little reason to pick up the bill. In that study, it was just an entry level job and she was offered on average 13% less than the guy. It may just be $4000, but with $4000 you can pay more than a few dinners for others.
      And then there’s the other kind of feminists out there, who don’t believe in wage gap and do their best to be equal (the wrong way) by shaming men for trying to pay dinners for her (are you trying to buy sexual favours now?) and holding the door open (I can open the door myself!) and stupid things like that, things that generally just mean generosity or good manners.

    • I remember hearing guys who went to Sweden for vacation loved it there. They said the girls would pay their drinks and have casual sex with them and not think that the guy owed them anything, because it was mutual. I just googled to see if it’s true.. and it is! You can also read in the comments made from Swedish people this is exactly how things are in Sweden and calling non-Swedish people out for insisting on 'courtesy'. Note how outraged they are, because guys don’t pay for her coffee xD

      This is something you could look forward to, if both sides are willing to cooperate to work towards the same goal.

  • No one really has issues with equal rights for women.

    It's when feminist say it's about equal rights for men and women, when it's really just about women's rights. It even says so in the definition you gave: "Feminism is a range of movements and ideologies that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.” Specifically states "for women". Meaning if the man is disadvantaged in a particular area that doesn't matter, so let's just move onto the next issue where women are at disadvantage.

    Again, not a bad thing for equality for women to be sought after and I doubt many people would disagree with that. But... the thing is now a days women do have equal rights to a man. So focusing on women's rights over all others at this point is leaning towards female dominance. I'm not saying there aren't women's issues that matter, because there are, but men face issues as well that go ignored. I support both men's and women's issues, so I'm not a feminist. Because feminism is inherently about helping women and not men. But I do believe in equality for both sides. Feminism does not equal equality. Feminism = equality for women. That's the only reason I don't prescribe to it.

    • "Feminism = equality for women" okay equality compared to what? Equality compared to men. It is not about getting ahead, it is about getting to "equal". Just as you used a term on the left of the equal sign, and another term on the right, equal has two objects to consider women AND men.

      And in the myTake are many examples of both inequalities in the past, and areas where work is still needed. Plus many of the opinions expressed more examples. Just as not all Muslims are terrorists (only a very small number of them are), not all feminists are feminazis.

    • You're making my point for me. It's equality, with an asterisk on it. Equality... when the women are at disadvantage. If women have the advantage, then move on.

      Imagine this being a scale of equality. 1 is advantage, 2 is disadvantaged, 3 is equal.

      We were here

      Men, 1111111. Women, 2222221

      Feminism brought us to
      Men, 3331222. Women 3332111

      Now with feminism we're trying to get to.
      Men, 3333222. Women 3333111

      At what point does it address the scenario men are disadvantaged? It doesn't. Because it is about equality for women, when they are at disadvantage. If women have the advantage they don't fight for equality for men to be on equal footing, they move onto the next category where women are at disadvantage.

    • exactly! lets have child custody equality,
      military draft equality,
      and that ALL types of jobs must reflect gender numbers in society, including sewage workers, garbage men, ditch diggers, butchers, slaughter yard feed lot cleaners, etc. equality all the way!

  • Sure its definition stands but it doesn't mean that to everyone who practices it.

    It's like how Islam isn't the same to normal muslims compared to extremists.

    There will always be people who hijack a term and are often successful into turning it into something else.

    There has been a feminist movement in the west where society has in many ways been turned into the favor of women rather than just create more of a balance. Women now have careers and do jobs men are perfectly capable of. There are even some jobs now which are almost exclusively jobs for women which have been done by men in the last.

    It's all well and good for women to be given some of men's things but where it is going wrong is that there has been no alternative lifestyles created for men. Men aren't biologically equipped to do the woman's job of staying home looking after children.
    So men have lost their status in society and gained nothing, whereas women have gained yet lost nothing.

    Traditionally and biologically men are hunters, providers and defenders and women are gatherers and nurturers. When you change that, you change everything and unless you're as perfect as nature, your actions will only damage the balance.

  • Just face it, people.

    "Feminism" is a word that isn't going to be reclaimed. It's gone. "Feminism" is a fat woman with a manly haircut screaming about "get your laws out of my vagina!" as she protests for the right to have her own unborn children dissolved in salt acid, as she talks about how horrible and patronizing "benevolent sexism" is and how it hurts poor women.

  • "Is Feminism A Bad Thing?"
    Not the entire thing no, but as of late large parts of it had become bad.

    "Are Feminists Evil?"
    Mostly no but many of them are and you can NEVER tell the difference at first glance because the "normal" feminists do jack to discredit the "crazies".

    • And the "normal" men do nothing to discredit the men whose attitudes the feminists are fighting.

    • @Take Owner good point.

    • What is there to discredit now? Used to be that the societal norm was for women to be 2nd class citizens. Now it's thankfully not like that anymore. Now the only bad ''attitudes'' come from men who are either just inherently sexist or rapists themselves - and what can you do against them? Tell them to stop?

  • I wouldn't go as far to say feminists are evil, but plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are feminists. As to is feminism a bad thing, in its current form it most definitely is. It easily meets the requirements for a hate group and is so hypocritical it makes gay evangelicals look normal. That answer your question?

    • "plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are feminists.". Well plenty of sexist, racist, and hateful people are CEOs, senators, policemen, even clergy. That does not make those groups bad. And those groups don't "easily meet the requirements for a hate group", either. People need to learn that the most vocal people that fall into any group are not necessarily representative of that group. Were the suffragettes a hate group because some of them committed violent acts in the name of voting equality?

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    • The definition of feminists is "Feminists are people, both men and women, who believe in equal rights for females". So suffragettes were most certainly feminists. Also, many feminists act or think alone, not as part of a movement, so yes, CEOs are a class, or group, of people and their thoughts and actions can be compared to feminist individuals as part of the feminist group. You clearly believe that equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women (the definition of feminism) is 100% a bad thing as you said, so there is no point in further discussion. Thank you for reading this and commenting.

    • I didn't say suffragettes weren't feminists, I said feminists aren't suffragettes, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T. There are no suffragettes around. That's a thing of the past and it's staying that way. And the dictionary definition of feminism is invalid. Actions define movements. Not dictionaries. The dictionary just hasn't been updated yet.

  • Feminists cling to the oppression of women as a moral security blanket and raison d'etre for their cause, a cause that seems to fail existential necessity.

    Feminists will cite instances of gender oppression from the past, like Barbara Walters or the Suffragette repressions of the early 20th Century. It's a great history lesson, but how is this relevant to women today? The fact is that they aren't relevant because American women (especially white women) are among the most privileged sociological groups on Earth.

    Though they're a majority of the population, they have the benefits of being treated as a minority group. Yet men, who are a clear minority, get treated like the evil overlords, which we are clearly not. So you can see why men are tired of Feminism.

    • Just because the wrongs of the past are at least partially fixed does not make the wrongs of today go away. I have seen a few women gain things due to their sex, but I have seen more stonewalled because of their sex.

  • Feminism a movement that believes that dealing with only female issues and removing double standards that don't benefit women will somehow make the sexes equal.

    • It is obvious that removing double standards will. towards gaining equality (not being equal). If you cannot see that double standards are wrong, then any further explanation is useless

  • I like how everything in your post was referring to feminists from decades ago and events that happened before 2000. Feminism is the most sexist movement to ever stain this earth they don't want equality they want supremacy and can't even understand that because the group as a whole doesn't know what they want so they regurgitate a textbook definition because they are incapable of thinking for themselves. You want equality? How what are you going to do to get it? Because all you normal AND radical third wave feminists have been spreading is inequality like the massive hypocrites you are.

    • "can't even understand that because the group as a whole doesn't know what they want so they regurgitate a textbook definition because they are incapable of thinking for themselves." The group is made up of individuals who have different ideas and priorities. They give the definition that covers the whole group, because that is the definition and the overall goal of most of the group. They have different ideas Because the CAN think for themselves, obviously! You want more recent feminists? Try Bell Hooks, Barbara Walters, Maya Angelou, Ellen Page, Ashley Judd, Sheryl Sandberg, Lena Dunham, Olivia Wilde, and an extremely great example, Malala Yousafzai. Grow up!

    • no YOU grow up feminists haven't done shit for men and thats why their entire definition and movement is trash! you can't claim you want equality and completely ignore the problems from half the population like divorce, alimony, child support, etc. name me 5 reasons why modern feminists are needed in the west because they sure as hell aren't welcome.

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