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Why I'm Pro-Life & My Answers To Pro-Choice Arguments (Page 2)
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I am pro-life also. I don't know if I want to make a law against it. But here is the deal, we should all want to have less abortions. No one should want there to be more. And if pro-lifers and pro-choice folks got together to work on decreasing abortions with the goal of eliminating them, I think everyone would be happier.
I agree with your take, and I am a medical doctor by the way.
Abortion is redefined for legal reasons, not scientific, from a scientific point of view it's murder and therefore a violation of the human rights. However, since the unborn child is legally redefined to not be at human, then abortion can be made legal, but bear no mistake it 100% political and not scientific.
Your reasons are not new. It's classic right-wing anti-choice 101. 3rd world countries ban abortion (but even that is slowly changing). Most people in the first world do not agree with you. You are free to have your beliefs but if you're going to try and force this on other people, there is a problem. I'll stand right along with women resisting the idea that they be forced to birth their rapist's child, if it comes to that. You can be on the side that wants to force them.
forced to birth their rapist's child, that's what happens in Latin America to 12 yr old girls.
This is so immature. All these arguments are childlike.
exactly
@TheClevelander1 yep. "its still a person!! They don't have a choice!!"
A smart person would look at the big picture and long term outcome of abortion.
if you're pro life, you're anti woman, bottom line
@TheClevelander1 Yeah. Ruins not just the woman's life and body but that childs too
And yet those same women made that choice? Couldn't be that catastrophically bad if they made the choice to perform an act which creates life without using the many many devices that can prevent that outcome. None of the arguments that I saw where immature, your attempt at insulting him however was.
No, you are just delusional. Nothing about defending human life is childish
you two are idiots.. if you're pro life, you're anti woman
they aren't humans.
and what do you mean they made that choice? birth control methods aren't always 100% effective. and you expect raped women to just give birth to their rapists babies? especially younger girls? you aren't defending human life, you're ruining more than one future life
i wouldn't want to know i was a product of rape, especially, if it wound up killing the mother in the process. why should i be a product of rape?
@TheClevelander1 👍🏻
@TheClevelander1 nah pro life means pro life. Pro choice idiots like you are anti woman and anti man depemding on the gender of the baby. Killing babies and then claiming im anti woman. Demons
Michelle, you know yourself that birth control methods aren't 100% effective.
And you also know that sex makes babies.
So you know that everytime you habe sex, you habe a chanve to get pregnant.
Thus, if you dont want kids, dont spread your legs.
Very simple.
So you are damn right you made that choice. Its time for you to take the responsibility for your actions.
And rapes and cases where the mother might die are the only situations in which i accept abortion, because the first one wasn't your choice and in the second one, at least with the abortion we save the mothers life.
But to take a life just because you couldnt take responsibility for a couple minutes of pleasure is absolutely unacceptable.
And last i checked, human females dont give birth to cats or dogs, so damn right they are humans. Keep telling that to yourself so you can sleep at night.
@lord_chilled so you're expecting everyone to just stop having sex until they want kids? what if you dont want kids? just stay a virgin your whole damn life? sorry hun, but that's never going to happen no matter what. i guess you'll also have to stop jerking off because those sperm are humans too!!! dont kill your kids and shoot them in Kleenex!
If you absolutely can't have kids but still want sex, tie your tubes, or the guys tubes.
And if you are gonna make dumbass commenta like that which even an 8th grader wouldn't say, im not gonna respond.
A sperm doesn't develop into a human.
Neither does an ovum. Never.
A fetus, even a zygote, develops into a human. The moment a sperm and an egg fuse together, they are no longer 23 chromosdome containing cells, ehich are part of your body, they are a completely new 46 chromosomed different person with a different genome than you or the mans.
Do the pro choice idiots have to dumb people down in their attempt to dehumanize fetuses?
Every single time im in this argument, there is always one! One that will ask, well maybe you shouldn't jerk off! Maybe you are killing millions of kids!
Go back to school and learn reproductive biology first.
@lord_chilled lol chill out
Im sorry i can't.
I dont take things this personally, but this issue gets me in my damn feelings.
Im literally losing sleep over this.
They are babies, come on...
@lord_chilled but it's only conscious after ~24 weeks, so abortion before that is ok, to me. Abortion after that time is cruel, though.
@TheClevelander1 lol. Abortion is completely preventable. Don't have sex if you are not ready for a kid.
it amuses me when i hear people saying they're pro choice-you are taking away a babies choice to live-frankly, i see them as cowardly hypocrites
It's good I'm not the only one who've thought that.
Same here-it annoys me as much as the fools who claim anal sex with a woman gay
@Sabretooth at the moment of legal abortion there's NO baby. Just a fetus or zygote. A blob of cells.
@jacquesvol. But it's still alive
Sperm too is alive. So are cancer cells @Sabretooth
@jacquesvol. All different-we're talking something that's growing into a baby
Ýour sperm too needs only a woman...
Dont dump it in a Kleenex thus.
@jacquesvol meaning?
@Sabrethooth meaning if you don't know the difference between a fetus and a child your sperm should be as sacred TO YOU.
@jacquesvol sperm can think, sperm can't feel, sperm can't remember specific sounds.
@Sabrethooth @ a zygote or fetus can't think either.
@jacquesvol course not-it's still developing
Next time you want chicken the waiter will bring yyou an egg
I totally agree with you! This is one of the most fantastic ways to sum up the truth about this issue. Bookmarked, and stored away for a rainy day/argument! Thanks!
Hey I'm against murder let's pass laws to make abortion illegal, and just to make it fair we'll pass a law that all babies must have parentage tested and the father must be fiscally responsible for the child.
Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on both accounts.
And there ladies and gentlemen is the reason abortion has to be legal, because humans being responsible for their actions is ridiculous. No debate needed.
I didn't say that.
Abortion shouldn't be illegal because there are always very reasonable reasons for wanting an abortion (the baby will have a disorder, poverty etc etc). And as for your notion about parentage testing, good luck getting the father to agree to a DNA test.
@Kkaos if it was law he wouldn't have a choice but to agree. Think of all the side issues it would solve, no more unwanted children, the poverty and welfare state would drop drastically with a lower rate of single mothers, promiscuity and STDs would decrease, and all we'd have to do is make men equally responsible for the risk of childbirth (in a financial aspect obviously not in the other impacts like what it does to the body or potential of the parent to improve other aspects of their life). Now I'm against social engineering but if it's going to be done anyways might as well try for things that punish undesirable behavior, hey with all that extra money the government saves not paying for welfare babies it can give a bonus to parents who have kids within wedlock, on purpose where both decide to have a baby. Win win.
You can't make it law, it's not how the legal system works. In order for someone to be forced to undertake a DNA test, they have to be suspected of a crime. Being a father isn't a crime. It's far more practical to do what they do now, if the man doesn't want to pay up, then he can't expect to see the child.
@Kkaos a lot of guys dont WANT to see the child. Which leaves mother n baby in an awkward spot of not enough dollars to get by because tje father decided to be a selfish fuckwit.
@BaileyisDarcy Well that's life, not much you can do about it. I'm pro abortion and as far as I'm concerned if the father doesn't want anything to do with the baby he can leave. If the mother doesn't want to have anything to do with the baby, she can have abortion. If the mother chooses to have the baby without the father being involved, she's responsible for that baby. End of.
@Kkaos you don't understand the "make it law" sentence do you... This is a hypothetical where it is law. Not it is a crime, it is law that if you impact someone's else's life completely (and I do mean completely, getting pregnant doesn't only affect the baby it physically changes the mother's dna to include the father's). You are still going back to the first point. I know men don't want responsibility, obviously, who wants more responsibility than they have to have. But this is why they don't get a say, because they don't want the share of responsibility. And by the way the notion that you can't be forced to take a paternity test even under current law is false, many people are compelled to test, the idea that they can't be is ludicrous. How do you think child support is determined when the guy disappears, they track him down and make him appear in court. The reason that doesn't work is it is after the fact, there is still no responsibility. The act needs to be directly linked to the consequ
@BaileyisDarcy he knows he just doesn't care, he thinks it is the woman's fault for letting a guy trick her by taking the condom off halfway or getting her drunk or saying he loves her so it doesn't matter. That is the common belief, if she was gullible enough to let it happen it's on her.
@Onlethisone No, I do understand. However we could say let's make it law for people to kill whoever they like, it doesn't mean it's feasible or realistic. What you're proposing does not conform to how the legal system works and therefore would never happen making it an irrelevant hypothetical.
Child support can only be established if the father agrees to a DNA test. If the father does not agree to a DNA test, you can't prove it and he has no obligation under the court to undertake one. These are civil cases not criminal cases, you can't force someone to undertake something against their will unless it's a criminal case.
Like I said, if a woman doesn't want the baby, she can have an abortion. It's perfectly legal in many parts of the world. If she chooses to have the baby against the father's wishes, he has no obligation WHATSOEVER to provide for that baby.
@Kkaos cancers a part of life. Shpuld we stop trying to change that?
you're an idiot.
@BaileyisDarcy Funny how you lack the mental capacity to respond to anything other than that and then call me an 'idiot'. Calling someone an 'idiot' literally means nothing coming from you.
@Kkaos pot calling the kettle... Since your only "argument" has been... but but compelling a man to dna test isn't possible. Even though it is common knowledge that it is used frequently www.google.com/.../paternity.aspx&ved=0ahUKEwiK5vuyu7XYAhWhjlQKHSgOAvsQFgg7MAM&usg=AOvVaw1NxjW0kP-OA7CyupyyNJBr
Yet she doesn't have the intellect to be relevant? Might try looking up the dunning kueger effect. Or chimerism since you know a big part of a woman getting pregnant is that even if she gets an abortion her dna is still permanently changed. Not to mention the increased medical repercussions of abortions... But don't worry we understand getting you dick wet is more important.
@Onlythisone Your very link just said that the man as the option to refuse a DNA test! Which is exactly what I've been saying. Are you even reading these links you're providing.
My argument has been pro abortion and stating the obvious fact that the entire legal system would have to change in order to FORCE men to have a DNA test to determine parentage. And not once has anyone given a valid argument against any of that.
I gave her a valid opinion and then the only stupid thing she could come up with is make a flawed analogy to cancer and then proceed a baseless insult. Cancer has nothing to do with this and mentioning it is logical fallacy because you're taking something that was said in one context and trying to extend it to apply to all contexts.
Her DNA is permanently changed? Ok, don't have sex then. She's responsible for her body. My body is permanently changed if someone chops my arm off, does that mean I should allow them to do it and then sue?
@Kkaos you're saying that because something is life we shouldn't be trying to change it. Lots of things we're trying to change are a part of life, why should this one SIMPLE thing be any different?
Im pro choice, but im not pro letting the guy get away without consequence.
@BaileyisDarcy I don't think we shouldn't try to change anything in life, obviously that is a very stupid view. But it becomes a cost, benefit problem. Forcing a guy to take a DNA test would require a huge change of the legal system and I don't believe the need is there, unlike cancer where there is a huge need because it takes so many lives.
If the guy's name is on the birth certificate, he has a responsibility to provide for that child and the fact his name is on the birth certificate proves he was willing to provide when the child was born so it's unfair to bail out and leave the mum alone. I fully agree tracking down the guy then.
But if the baby was a 'mistake' and the guy tells the girl that he doesn't want the baby to be born and she refuses to have an abortion, then that's on her. The guy can't be expected to provide, but he also can't expect to be in the baby's life.
That's my full belief and that's how it is with the law as well.
@Kkaos are you? ". The Court can make a paternity order even if the test is not done, if other evidence suggests that you are likely to be the father."
And you only prove my point, that you believe sex is entirely the woman's responsibility. Believe me I agree, I don't know who would bother with the risk. Women shouldn't have sex with people who believe they have no responsibility for their actions... But then they tend to lie about that, so no sex until marriage seems a great option except that it is nearly impossible for poor women to avoid sex as housing food and basic survival tends to depend on it in some way... Or the government which only steps in if you have sex and procreate.
You are only seeing as far as your dick not the end results. You want a dog eat dog world where everyone uses sex to try to get ahead, because to each their own take care of you fuck everything else. The mother doesn't matter, the baby doesn't matter, because I didn't have to wear a condom for my 2 m.
@Onlythisone IRRELEVANT. The court can give you whatever order they like, they can't FORCE you to conform to that order. They can't arrest you and force-ably take a sample.
Ok, how about this, if you're Ms Responsible... Before you have sex with any guy, get him to give you a sample that you can use for DNA testing, then get him to sign a contract that he will pay child support in the event that you become pregnant and opt not to abort. You'll have the contract and you'll have the DNA evidence. You'll have a very strong case against him if he ever bails out.
@Kkaos irrelevant you keep returning to the same thing I said you believe originally. That sex is solely the woman's responsibility. This argument isn't about the money or the baby (everyone here is pro choice) it is about men believing they have no responsibility for sex whatsoever. I don't want to hear more ways women can try to get around men wanting sex when men are the primary perpetrators. A friend invites you out for dinner, orders steak, you have a side salad then he demands you pay... That is what this is about.
I'm not asking more ways you can pass responsibility to someone else, I'm asking what would make you think about your actions and the effects of them? The Hallmark trait of masculinity is responsibility so why are your actions entirely someone else's problem?
If you claim no responsibility neither do the women you interact with, and if they poke a hole in the condom and save some as proof you are the father it is your fault. That is the world you ask for.
I've said nothing that's irrelevant, everything I've said has been in response to something that you've said.
"why are your actions entirely someone else's problem?"... It wouldn't be the girl's problem if she chose to have an abortion! A guy can at least support her through the abortion, that's fair. But if he SPECIFICALLY says he doesn't want her to go through with the birth and she doesn't care and still decides to go through with it, she's CHOSEN to accept responsibility for the life of that child and therefore it becomes HER responsibility, not his.
If we find a lost dog and I tell you to send the dog to the pound and you want to keep the dog, is it now my responsibility to help you care for the dog? If you don't like taking full responsibility for the life of a child, you shouldn't have that child.
@Kkaos you just called a child you created a dog... End of discussion.
Best answer on here. Deserves mho
I had the chance to contemplate the abortion argument at great length in a philosophy class I took. I ultimately came out as prochoice. I am glad to see that you are so well read on this subject! While I disagree with your ultimate assessment, I have found that many times people don't even really want an abortion, they do it because they feel trapped and it almost becomes "the easy way out."
You’re one of the few pro-lifers I’ve seen with a reasonable stance. Still don’t agree, but it’s reasonable.
The way I see it - not my life, not my my place to say.
Thankfully those in power in most developed countries see things from a similar perspective
That was a really good argument and very well put together. You got your point across without resorting to bully-boy tactics. It was the sort of mature attitude that's sadly lacking from society today.
Simples...
There was that last paragraph, which was a bit bully-boy tactics.
@goaded you should know... lol
All these pro choicers are just delusional idiots that dont see unborn babies as babies.
Or they know and dont care either way.
F*cking pos demons.
Pretty easy to say when you know for sure it won't happen to you.
Still, nice take, it's nice to see other people's opinions.
How many issues should we apply that too? I've oft heard women writers say something like "Unless you can get pregnant your opinion doesn't count." Should men tell women the same thing about laws that impact men? "If you don't have a dick, you should be quiet about xyz issue?"
@RationalMale?
Where in my post did you see me saying man shouldn't have a vote? They're the baby's father, of course they should have a say. But if you think it's normal to try to step in another persons shoes before judging, then I see no point of talking to you.
not to try*
the thing is it did happen to him, his birth parents chose adoption over abortion.
@COCOCHANEL I meant getting pregnant.
it isn't painful for everyone and these days there are options like csec
No one is talking about pain. Tbh I'm confused what even are you talking about. I don't need more explanation. I've read the whole take.
Yeah you girls act like dicks just fall into you randomly
@lord_chilled And you guys act like pussies just slip onto your dicks randomly, but I don't see how any of that has to do with what I wrote.
" Pretty easy to say when you know for sure it won't happen to you "
- this is what i referred to.
Its not something that just "happens" to you.
You make a choice to do it.
And in case you didn't know, sex makes babies.
If you aren't ready to have kids, then you aren't really ready to have sex
@lord_chilled Thanks for the unnecessary explanation.
Only because you asked for it
Also when you're not 100% sure what the other person is saying and if you're not willing to think for a minute from another person's perspective, feel free not to engage in the conversation at all. Especially if you are going to make comments about someone else's lifestyle, which honestly, you know nothing about.
If you'd came across my other posts on this subject, you'd realize that I'm very much against irresponsible sex, as well as the fact that I personaly wouldn't have the strenght to abort my own child. And yes, I'd still vote pro-choice. Why is that so? Because yes, unborn babies are humans, abortion is murder, but for me it doesn't changee the fact that I want the freedom to do with my body whatever I want, even if there's another human inside of it. Sue me.
Its pretty clear what you meant. l by your statement.
And i dont do background checks on people before i reply to an opinion. All i can see is whats written infront of me.
But all of that goes out of the window anyway when you admit that abortion is murder and yet the freedom to to do whatever with your body is more important to you.
So your being able to do whatever with your body >>> human life.
Good to see your true colours
@lord_chilled Good thing we can finally see eye to eye. Bye to you and enjoy the rest of your day.
Agreed with you completely. People give stupid excuses for abortion.
I am pro-life because i think killing a baby is wrong!
There's no such thing as "pro life" .. you are "pro birth"
Elaborate, please.
Great mytake! I agree, killing should be illegal no matter what!
Nice, really well done. I am just impressed. There is a reason to why doctors don't advise this. It was already made and growing, why cut it from existence. I am all pro-life.
Abortion is butchery only an utterly cynical and nihilist society could condone.
I have a serious problem with #3. No one should be forced to carry the child of a rapist. Sorry... I see absolutely NO exceptions to this. The idea is completely revolting to me. I don't care if this is only 1% of the cases.
Good mytake. If you don't want to risk getting pregnant, don't have sex.