Excavating The Salt Mine: A Case Against MGTOW

[Mexicoman101]

To me MGTOW’s are a bunch of losers who cloak their failures with women in collectivism. Not content to lick their wounds in individual obscurity (some imagined & some very much inflicted) they have, as groups are quite capable of doing, found their scapegoat & boogeyman in the 'fairer sex'. The temptation of replicating the framework of echo chambers on Tumblr which provide bitter women an outlet for critiques & outrage against piggish/boorish/brutish/entitled/etc male caricatures has culminated into a new reactionary movement designed to further pad the divide between men & women.

In almost admirable speed they have managed incur the wrath of the cringe gods onto themselves in a few years, collecting enough salt to make the Dead Sea manage to blush. Wikipedia defines MGTOW briefly as "Men Going Their Own Way is a mostly pseudonymous online community of men supported by websites and social media presences cautioning men against serious romantic relationships with women, especially marriage. The community is part of what is more broadly termed the manosphere. MGTOW have "...vowed to stay away from women, stop dating and not have children". MGTOW focus on men's self-ownership rather than changing the status quo through activism and protest, making MGTOW distinct from the men's rights movement."

In the short time I was researching MGTOW I came upon a mountain of lulz & found a new hobby.

Some gems include:

Windows Ten Holding Me Down

It's Too Late To Just Need A Hug

When Autists Don't Screech

Now I want to make something clear, this is not an indictment on the grounds of 'muh-sogyny' & Oh The Patriarhcy Strikes Again. I'm not surprised or angry that there are people who are sexist on the internet. That's not really the crime being committed here in my eyes. Individually their points about the courts being sexist against fathers, certain people denying the significance of false rape accusations, & the like are one thing, but I think that as a group they are just as bad as feminists & SJW’s in their corrosive impact on not just society but onto themselves. They won’t be happy alone by themselves & over time the bitterness will almost always compound itself.

In my searching I did find some posts that conveyed a lot of empathy & much of the inner strife that I think compels a lot of people to join something like a movement designed to help safeguard their own interests through collectivism.

I in fact made a blog post about MGTOW on Tumblr before & got this as a response

There's a website I won't get too much into but will like below called MGTOW.com, it's basically them trying to look self-helpie & attributing famous men who had currently antiquated attitudes about women & going 'Look Malcolm X said men have to take equality & justice for themselves'. It's sad, but here's one part about the origins of MGTOW that made me laugh:

"There has been much chatter about when "MGTOW" originated online as a recent social phenomenon, but one would really have to pull the camera back. Way back to Schopenhauer, Tesla, Beethoven, Galileo, or even Jesus Christ - if you're up to arguing that."

Yeah guys, Jesus came out of the cave like "This is why I invented periods, you bitches are Killing Me!"

What Reddit's MGTOW page demonstrates is not only a significant social need to combat male collectivism with legitimate egalitarian approaches to issues of gender in matters of the courts & perhaps say, the dating scene, but also the sheer power of propaganda on isolated or otherwise vulnerable minds. I can't say that I don't feel the same kind of empathy for the tortured souls that bitterly frequent these pages as I do for the woman posting on Tumblr about mens' cruelty because say, she's very overweight & has been verbally abused for that & feels unwanted.

There is such a disconnect in society for them that that these people almost approach boards centered around MGTOW as therapy or a call to action against injustice. Grievance culture is a very strong thing, especially in a media landscape where identity politics has taken the drivers seat in the minds of so many. If we can assume the Tumblr poster who responded to me speaks in good faith, the MGTOW motive cannot be so clearly stated as a failure of getting laid in particlar, as is often argued by people who take a surface level approach to the group. The extent of these mens failures with women cannot be seen as so shallow as normal people in greater society would like to resign to them as a group. These are human beings, & a lot of them don't feel like women & the men that succeed with them comprehend that. A lot of them are ostensibly too far gone, it's funny to watch them in their extremities try to sling mud just as it is to watch feminists lose their shit about men leaving room for their balls while seated in public transportation, but there is blood in this giant vein of salt known as MGTOW-& those two things hurt to mix.

I knew what it was like until adulthood to live without female attention or appreciation, & I’ve had my own problems in the regard of radfems, but I never once thought of forming a circle jerk to bitch about bitches. That’s really what it is to me, bitching about the bitches. Most of the women I’ve known & liked & formed relationships with were a lot better than this horrible image they’re all painted with in broad brush strokes by MGTOW people. Their emotional overreaction to womens bullshit has clouded their minds & turned them against healthy lifestyles, so I will always be against the idea of MGTOW & advise my friends against it. There are issues with social inconsistencies that can harm men, & a lot of people ignore this out of convenience, but these people have just dedicated themselves to being No Help & end up looking pathetic-not even having the dignity of monks.

That being said, I think women can be cold to these kinds of men who probably do need help or have suffered at the hands of cruel or uncaring women. If my dad were an alcoholic who beats me all the time & my mother just let it happen, never calling CPS or raising a finger or even an eyebrow for my side, I would probably have become a virulent sexist who thinks there is little to no utility to having women around. Most of the women in my life haven’t been supportive or even made me feel visible, but the ones in my family and that were in my circle of friends were always compassionate and supportive towards me & I just don’t see this one sided caricature MGTOW has cynically designed in their propaganda. I feel like if a lot of them were embraced by women though, who would have patience with them, that they could have sprouted into legitimately successful & dignified men. But instead, they have fallen down this terrifying abyss & I feel far worse for them than anything else.

So while some of their points might have merit, their response to the problems is almost entirely counter productice & unhealthy. They should really just work on their game & try making themselves more attractive, developing the same level of patience with women as they clearly have needed From Them.

Sources: https://www.mgtow.com/history/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way

[Anonymous]

I agree with some of what you've said, but I think you have to consider thAT many women have alienated some half-way decent guys. I am one girl who is not impressed by the super extroverts who give us large amounts of attention, are full of humor and can be overly forward. Some say the "nice guy" is a phony, but that can cut both ways.

It's true the whole MGTOW thing is full of resentment and self-alienation. Sour grapes are always bitter, but these broad generalizations (including my own) can be misleading. I honestly feel bad for the "quieter class" of guys who in many cases are pretty decent guys, but don't feel the need to wear a sign on their back to advertise confidence. We women could make a better effort to at least break the ice with these guys and try to know them. If we did there would not be so many unhappy women out there.

So in essence I think what you're saying is fairly accurate, but any blanket statements about large groups of individuals is often misleading.

[Opinion Owner]

Have you ever noticed some of the best questions get such a sparse response? So typical of this site.

[Anonymous]

MGTOW is nothing more than the mirror image of feminism, and a reaction to feminism. If feminism disappeared, so would MGTOW. So, I think that tells us exactly what needs to happen.

[Opinion Owner]

There has never been any bigger hypocrite in the history of humanity than the women who support feminism but not MGTOW.

[omgjassy]

They are ridiculous

[Mexicoman101]

I find them largely asinine, as it is as much humorous but concerning when all of these thousands of men commit to these very wasteful & closed off lifestyles for so long. A lot of them are victims, just not of women in totality as they seem to believe.

[omgjassy]

I agree

[DrJohn]

I am and will always be a MGTOW. Just trying to live my life without being demonised!!!

[Mexicoman101]

There's a better way, man. Many ways, really. These MGTOW websites, they find any rationale to break you down & feel demonized while demonizing women supposedly as an act of self defense.

[DrJohn]

I am not demonised by MGTOW sites. Society, media and close people to me demonise me.

[Mexicoman101]

The MGTOW reddit thread sites centered around MGTOW love to highlight any instance of anti-male rhetoric & persecution broad enough to happen to include you. They are trying to make themselves look like your friend, they are not though, they are trying to convince you everyone else but people of like minds to them are your enemy.

I am really sorry if you feel that people who are close to you demonize you unfairly, but it's very easy to feel convinced that our anecdotal experiences are a microcosm of how society is. Sure, yeah, the media is full of shit, it's a chasm of shit. But you have control over the media you personally consume moreso than most people will take for themselves. You gotta make better friends dude, if it's your family doing it, you're not alone as men & women both have felt this. I can tell you I've heard stories from someone I loved a lot who almost had every reason to hate the world but didn't.

[DrJohn]

I am really happy with my MGTOW lifestyle and I will follow it until it creates any visible problem.

[NerdInDenial]

Live your life the way you want; don’t let this person tell you what to do. The author just tells you must just continue trying and follow the system. MGTOW offers another solution. If you find actualization without being part of the Matrix, then that’s good, right?