The Male Suicide Rate (With Context) (Suicidal? don't read, seek help. US: [phone], AUS: 131 114, UK: 08457 90 90 90, Ireland: 1850 609090

[Staiby]

Contemplating suicide? please do not continue reading this mytake and seek help

=> http://lostallhope.com/help-me/surviving-today

I have had discussions with people about gender differences and issues and multiple times they have brought up the suicide statistic that up to 80% of suicide victims are male. It's been brought up by people with the view is that it is actually men who have it worse than women in society. If most suicide victims are male, then there must be something wrong society that makes men die by suicide at such a high rate right? there must be something in society that's so anti-male to causes this right? and maybe society isn't actually so anti-female after all?

It is true that men are more likely to die by suicide than women, but it is inappropriate to draw a conclusion that society treats men worse than women, which is what I have noticed in discussions with people.

There is something that they don't take into account. The gender differences in suicidal behaviors.

According to the American Association of Suicidology (based on a SAMHSA study), for every victim who lost their life to suicide, there are 25 other persons who attempted suicide and, fortunately, did not succeed in ending their lives. http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics. Other statistics suggest that in the U.S, for every successful suicide attempt, there are 33 failed attempts.

There are nearly 30 different methods of suicide and all have varying degrees of lethality, varying lengths of duration it takes for the method to end the victim's life and also varying degrees of agony. (Before you click this link => http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/statistics-most-lethal-methods, if you are going through a difficult time in your life and have had thoughts of suicide, please seek help here => http://lostallhope.com/help-me/surviving-today or call the one of the numbers provided in the title of this mytake. I will be very minimal in my specification of the types of methods within the mytake. You may click here => http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/statistics-most-lethal-methods and view an informative but light-to-read table.

The link concerning the most lethal methods discusses the difference in preferred suicide methods between men and women. Males tend to choose the most lethal and quickest methods, and females tend to choose methods varying in lethality, duration, and agony.

A longer duration provides a higher chance for the person attempting suicide to be caught and receive intervention and some attempts fail without any intervention or a transfer to a hospital.

Women are three times more likely to make an unsuccessful attempt than a man, yet will attempt suicide two to three times more often.

So women are attempting suicide at a higher rate then men. But men, unfortunately, are more successful in their attempts, placing more men in the death by suicide statistic and placing even more women in the failed suicide attempt statistic.

Although women are more likely than men to survive a suicide attempt, many of those unsuccessful attempts end up with people having nasty short or long term health implications. So although you may survive your suicide attempt, that attempt may alter you permanently for the rest of your life.

There is also the factor of age people have overlooked when talking to me about this issue. Teenagers have a success rate of 1 in 100-200 while the elderly have a success rate of 1 in 4. Younger women are at a high risk of attempting suicide than men while women over 50 make attempts at a slightly lower rate than men.

This is not the point of this mytake, but there is a link between lower rates of gun ownership and lower suicide rates. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magazine/guns-and-suicide/ . Even if someone turns to a different method instead of the gun method, the gun method is one if not the most lethal method, and the different method they turn to may be a less lethal one, increasing the chance of the person failing their attempt.

Also, by lowering suicide rates in the LGBT community, you would be lowering the high rate of male suicide victims. Maybe there is something in society that is anti-gay that contributes to a high rate of male suicide victims? Actually, not maybe, of course there is.

So to say that there is something anti-male in society that has caused a higher rate of male suicide victims than female victims, you are leaving out a lot of context and it is inappropriate to make that conclusion.

It is just as bad as saying women earn 70c for every $1 a man earns without including the context of hours worked, maternity leave and other factors. So stop it.

All information in the mytake is supported by the provided links.

[backintown]

You quickly dismissed the theory that men have it harder than women without any hard evidence from a non partisan source above. Then you automatically assumed that suicides was higher in the LGBT community “just because they have it harder” with no supporting facts. Than last but not least you brought up gender wage gap myth. I can provide you with dozens of sources that is a lie. In fact women actually come out ahead more than men since they are much more dependent on tax payer funded government programs.

Did you consider the following:

- men, especially adult men usually have much smaller network of friends to rely on compared to women. After the age of 30 male friendships start to fade because men are usually focused on their careers and independence. Women on the other hand keep their bonds with other women much longer
- there is much less support for homeless men compared to women
- men still not are allowed to express their feelings without being labeled weak. No matter what progressives and women say NO ONE respects sensitive guys. The only exceptions would I be famous musicians, artists, etc. They can express their emotions in a entertaining manner. But it is not nor it will it ever be considered masculine to show emotional distress (besides anger). As naturally sensitive man nobody is more painfully aware of this than me. We bottle it up and it kills us. But we die as a man.
- the most at risk group for suicide is WHITE middle aged uneducated men. Why is that white men have higher rates of suicide than other ethnic groups? Well I could take your LGBT conclusion and just say they have it harder?

I have plenty of links to back this all up. Just ask and I’ll give it to you. Your liberal spin on this just plain disgusting if you ask me.

[Staiby]

Why is my source non partisan? because I've only used one? My source is a website that includes findings from other sources that even contradict each other so it's pretty balanced.

"Also, by lowering suicide rates in the LGBT community, you would be lowering the high rate of male suicide victims. Maybe there is something in society that is anti-gay that contributes to a high rate of male suicide victims? Actually, not maybe, of course there is." ... where did I say LGBT suicides were higher? I don't need to provide a statistic because I didn't make an assertion that it was higher. Just that LGBT suicides exist and it's common knowledge that people have attempted suicide because they struggle with their sexuality. I know someone personally who attempted when he was a teenager and later opened up that the reason he attempted was because the realization he was gay just crashed down on him. I didn't care to make the assertion that it was higher because my point was to present another reason to the "anti-male society" for why some men kill themselves... an anti-gay society.

I'll make the assertion now though that LGBT youth suicide rates are higher than their heterosexual counterparts. LGB youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth and LGB youth who come from highly rejecting families are 8.4 times as likely to have attempted suicide as LGB peers who reported no or low levels of family rejection. www.thetrevorproject.org/.../

Youth 12 to 14 years old who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) are much more likely to die by suicide than their heterosexual peers. And a study looked at in this source suggests that more gay men will die by suicide than lesbians. www.reuters.com/.../one-in-four-pre-teen-suicides-may-be-lgbt-youth-idUSKCN1QA2JQ

And risk factors are closely related to the backlash they receive from an anti-gay society www.lgbthealtheducation.org/.../...ients-Brief.pdf

[Staiby]

And the gender wage gap thing is not the point of my mytake so I won't be delving into that. My point of bringing it up was to say that presenting a single statistic and drawing a conclusion without context is not appropriate. It is what is being done by some people on here with the 80%-suicide-victims-are-male statistic to tell me "because society is anti-male and society is not anti-female" which I think is what people do with the gender wage gap in similar fashion.

And to say that society is anti-male because of the high rate of male suicides, the argument I keep hearing from people on gag, well I can also say that society is anti-woman because women attempt suicide 2-3 times the rate their male counterparts attempt suicide. But they don't want to consider that spin.

Are you presenting me with other factors for me to consider INSTEAD of the gender-difference in suicidal methods factor? I'm not blind to other factors. I just take issue with the "anti-male society" and bottling it up presented as the only reason why men make up 80% of suicide victims. There are reasons that aren't "an attack on men". There is an attack on the LGBT community that, which I previously explained, is a reason behind some men's suicides. The NRA doesn't target men with their gun sales and fights against any gun laws that would infringe on their profit. They want everyone to have guns.

If you refuse to consider gender differences in suicide methods then you refuse to actually find solutions for lowering the amount of suicide victims. Solutions like that one I offered with gun restrictions.

[backintown]

Thanks for MHO. I know we discussed this privately.

[esotericstory]

Have you looked at the mental health resources availability to men and women? Its often been stated that mental heath resources are simply not as available for men as they are for women. That is due to the fact that society doesn't care as much for men as it does for women.

LGBT suicides are so high because LGBT people have the instinct to sexually reproduce but can't do so because of their sexuality, the stress from this contributes to suicidal tendencies.

Also you are wrong to conclude that society is more anti-women than anti-men, there can be no such conclusion to be drawn from these statistics alone.

I myself am a straight European man, the big boogeyman of history according to left wing politics, and you know what? When I was suicidal it was easily dismissed by people because of the person that I am. Do you think that is normal? Because I dont.

[Staiby]

My focus was the gender difference in preferred suicide methods.

And the reason LGBT rates are so high => "Research has found multiple factors associated with suicidal behavior among LGBTQ people, including isolation from family and peers, a history of mental health issues (e. g., depression and anxiety), substance use disorders, and victimization (e. g., being the target of bullying; being abused)" www.lgbthealtheducation.org/.../...ients-Brief.pdf

I've never heard of LGBT individuals being suicidal due to being unable to reproduce when they actually can. There is adoption, surrogacy, sperm donating among other options.

And I never drew the conclusion that society is anti-woman. I just said that if you're going to say the high male suicide rate is due to society being "anti-male" why won't you say society is anti-woman because attempted suicides rates are female-dominated?

I never intended to dismiss men's issues. It just was not my focus in the mytake. I wanted to express the fact that the rate of male suicide victims is not only attributable to men's issues or an "anti-male" society. Gay men make up part of that statistic and there are some very anti-gay aspects of society. And gun-restrictions, which isn't really seen as a men's issue, has been shown to bring down the suicide-by gun rate, which is a method used more by men than women. www.apha.org/.../reducing-suicides-by-firearms

I compare it with the gender wage gap. If you wanted to close it by only attacking sexism, you won't get far. It was predicted that an increase in the minimum wage to $15 an hour would disproportionately benefit female workers. But a $15 minimum wage isn't really seen as a woman's issue. However, it would contribute to a shrinkage in the gap.

What I'm trying to say is that there are non-gender focused solutions to a gender issue that are worth promoting.

[esotericstory]

Gay suicide rates in places like San Francisco where there is nearly more gay acceptance than straight acceptance, its practically the gay capital of the world. Their suicide rates are not because of discrimination but simply because of their own reproductive instincts.

Also I can assure that I rather kill myself than live a life of misery.

[backintown]

A mandatory $15 dollar an hour wage would create much more unemployment. I can provide examples of of what cities who tried and had major problems.

If you are complacent with working a minimum wage job all your life than there is a problem with you, not the system.

No to be fair I do agree that real earnings via the cost of living has gotten insane.

As for women who “attempt” suicide. I don’t want to brush that off because some women are successful. But women get more societal leeway to broadcast their deepest emotions and still save face. Their are plenty of men who are probably having suicidal thoughts but now if they said it out loud they would be labeled weak and cowardly, especially adult men.

This month I’ve already encountered two attention seeking women who threatened suicide: my ex and another middle aged woman who I met at a support group. My ex threatened suicide because I left her. I have secretly and seriously considered suicide after I got royally fucked over from women for being a “nice” guy. I got too much to live for and I refuse to die a coward, or at least sound like one talking about. The other woman is a middle aged transient who ruined her life with severe compulsive gambling. I have paid for her to stay at motel rooms because she begged me a few times. I finally cussed her out and told her to stay at a woman’s shelter. She said “she would commit suicide” if she did that. But that’s just a sympathy ploy for me to bail her ass out (which I stopped doing)

[ADFSDF1996]

No offense but your credibility was tarnished when you said

“but it is inappropriate to draw a conclusion that society treats men worse than women”

[Shamalien]

Society in the western nations does treat men worse than women in every conceivable way, and when I say society let me be clear, I'm not talking about the quasi free market which selects based on merit, I'm talking about THE GOVERNMENT, THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, and just about every other societal institution (don't forget the media oh lord do not forget those male bashing bastards)

Men as a net whole produce a shitload more tax dollars than women as a whole. Women as a whole are a NET DRAIN on the system. Do you know what that means? A NET DRAIN? Get it? They take MILLIONS, BILLIONS more than they put in. If that's not society robbing from men and giving the money to women, WHAT IS IT? I suppose it's nice of the men to have the privilege to be stolen from isn't it?

How are you coming to these conclusions? Then there's just the subject matter as it stands. Are you really gunna post a take about suicide and turn it into some fucking feminist propaganda? REALLY? And your logic with guns... like what the fuck! Let's build railings on all the bridges 20 thousand feet high so it takes them longer to climb over and kill themselves! That's the solution, de claw the cat, remove the wasp's stinger!

Read some fucking history books you retarded piece of shit I hate you right now, if you wake the fk up I might come to respect you one day but right now you are TRASH!

[backintown]

I too was pissed off about the liberal assumptions she made In her take. But let’s not call her a “retarded POS”. We are better than that.

[Staiby]

@backintown i reported this comment but why the fuck is it still up

[backintown]

I’ve gotten some horrible troll comments too and GAG has been slow as molasses on that crap lately.

I think people over report crap nowadays. They see a comment that disagrees with them and think it’s “offensive” so GaG is overburdened. But he definitely crossed the line above with that retarded comment. I would never call you that.

[Staiby]

@backintown I've blocked him but I'm pissed the comment is still up. Jesus christ it's been 4 days now

[WalterBlack]

I think that you bring up some valid points. However, in the USA, suicide is quickly rising to one of the leading causes of death among men in their 40s and 50s. These statistics are very alarming and suggest that men in this age group may be facing some unique problems that have not been adequately addressed.

[Staiby]

I agree with you. Men's issues just weren't the focus of my mytake. And I also believe it would be best for a man to make a mytake about the relationship between men's issues and the male suicide rate. I personally wanted to present the idea of lowering the male suicide rate with solutions that aren't necessarily "men-focused" as men's issues aren't the only reason it is so high.

[Optymistyk]

I don't think you can draw any conclusions from these statistics either way.

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics

According to the chart 2/3 of would-be suicide victims were not that intent on killing themselves. Maybe they just had a sudden breakdown or maybe they just wanted some attention. That would explain the fact that 2/3 of attempted suicides are made by women and that women are more likely to survive. Maybe women are the 2/3 that just feel depressed and do stupid things while men are the 1/3 that's hellbent on ending it. Or maybe not. We don't know

[Staiby]

I did find some stats about intent between men and women in European countries after I posted this mytake. Haven't looked at any stats from the U. S yet though. From what I've read so far, in some countries men were more intent then women and other countries were closer to an equal amount of intent between men and women. Suicide can be attempted on impulse and sometimes people will make an attempt in the style of a gamble.

[Monster_Recluse]

What you are over loooking is that men and women have different levels of temperment for suffering. Even if we were to decide that men and women commit suicide just as often it doesn't mean they both suffer equally.

I think women suffer more from social or relationship situations while men suffer more for existential reasons.

I believe society does treat men worst. I can't think of any programs or insitutions set up soley for the benefit of men. Even the boy scouts apparently is for girls now. When you see all these 'shelters' for women, the scholarships, these 'girl code' institutions, women only colleges, and pink ribbons on everything it's hard to not think that society doesn't care if a guy falls behind or gets hurt.

There used to be tons of institutions set up specifically for men. The YMCA, male colleges, men's clubs. All of that was 'sexiest'.

[Staiby]

I don't think suicidal methods is the only reason. I just wanted to add some context to the suicide rate among men. And I wanted to point out you can't blame every suicide on an "anti-male society".

Just because there isn't a male equivalent of assistance to women, doesn't mean society treats men worse. A lack of a male equivalent can mean society doesn't treat men worse.

For example, there is no Office of Research on Men's Health. Men don't need one. There wasn't the prerequisite for one. The Office of Research on Women's Health was established in response to the historical exclusion of women in medical research trials and concerns that results of medical research trials with only male participants cannot appropriately be generalized to women. In the same year it was established, 1990, a study was published in the Journal of National Cancer Institute that looked at the impact of diet on estrogen metabolism an it's effects on the cancer of the breasts and uterus. All of the participants were male. It clearly should have had female participants. So the reason men don't have a male equivalent of a Office of Research on Women's Health is NOT because men are treated worse in society but because there is a need to restore the damage done by a gender inequality that men benefited from at women's expense.

Last time I checked, the largest provider of women's scholarships is the Miss America Pageant and you need to work hard to win it. And you need to be pretty. And you need to sign a statement declaring that you have never been married, not pregnant and never have been pregnant.

And I just looked up scholarships for men. There are scholarships for men. www.fastweb.com/.../the-scholarships-for-men
Hopefully they don't reject you because you impregnated someone.

[Staiby]

I personally have 2 female family members who suffered domestic violence. One suffered a slap and verbal abuse and the marriage ended there. The other suffered an attempted strangulation, controlling behaviors, financial abuse, stalking. She got restraining orders against him and kept mini fire extinguishes in her car because she heard it was a good-self defense tool. She lived in fear of him. She said she felt like he was always behind a tree about to jump out and get her.

Remember when you said "Even if we were to decide that men and women commit suicide just as often it doesn't mean they both suffer equally." I agree with you. But I'll take that principal and apply it to domestic violence.

Minor domestic violence is perpetrated by men and women at an equal frequency, including violence that constitutes self-defense, which is the reason often cited by women. Severe domestic violence (strangulation and beatings) are perpetrated mostly by men. 70% of women who've suffered domestic abuse reported living in fear of their partners while only 15% of men report fearing their partners psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0026296

Neither of the women in my family went to a women's shelter even though they would be within their right. Not domestic violence victims will be driven out of their homes and to a shelter.

I don't doubt help is needed for men suffering domestic violence. In my opinion, I think there isn't enough demand for many men's shelters. I think it would be more cost effective to pay for a hotel room for the night, food, volunteers to escort them to the location and to stay in contact with them throughout the night.

[Staiby]

*Not all domestic violence victims will be driven out of their homes and to a shelter

[Monster_Recluse]

interesting info.

[Staiby]

I hope you didn't find me testy. I just like sharing the information I know. I hope I helped you to consider some things.

I don't want to overlook any genuine men's issues. I bet they exist, no doubt. I may very well not understand because I'm simply not a man. It's just you cited existential reasons for men's suffering and you should know you are saying that to a woman from a different background to you (I assume you're American.)

I'm an Australian who sticks with American stats because they're more in abundance then Australian stats. I'm a woman but I'm suffering for existential reasons. I've been unemployed for years. The job situation here fucking sucks. It's young people that are suffering from it mostly. Men and women. It's taken perspectives from foreigners to show me that this is not normal for other countries. I've been attending an employment skills course run by a trainer from Brazil and she says Australia is a disaster when it comes to finding work. A mate of mine who moved to America has also noticed the difference.

I've given up. I fill my job search quota for my centrelink payments and then just not know what to do with my life expect budget so that I pay my rent and not starve.

[Anonymous]

Nice, an entire MyTake written for the purpose of dismissing the scope of the challenges men face in society. You actually are a great example of the challenges males face today... self-centered and dismissive attitudes of women in general, and feminists like you in particular. You feminists want to make it some kind of competition where you always have to be the biggest victim or you feel your victim status is threatened so you have to try to dismiss the problems mnen face and undermine any attempts to draw attention to them so they might actually be addressed.

I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that a feminist would choose the fact that men are so much more likely than women to commit suicide as the subject of her victim competition. No surprise at all, really. It is this sort of thing that we have all come to expect from feminists, which is why feminism gets zero respect anymore.

You should be so proud of yourself.

[Curmudgeon]

[i]If most suicide victims are male, then there must be something wrong society that makes men die by suicide at such a high rate right? there must be something in society that's so anti-male to causes this right? and maybe society isn't actually so anti-female after all?[/i]
[br]
Correct. Femi (commu) nists have lied to you, for decades.

That said, it is documented that when men make suicide attempts, they are much better at "achieving" results.

[BIGGESTD39]

I think a lot of people think about it I know I have but it not worth it even if you feel like your alone your not and that brings me to my next point people don't be afraid to help other I've my self save someone life I did even know he told me later that because I stopped to see if he was ok that there are still people who cared

[Staiby]

We don't really think about the effect, good or bad, our words and actions can have. Society needs be more conscience about that. I'm glad you helped steer someone away from a potential suicide. I bet it has made you more conscience throughout your life from then on.

[BIGGESTD39]

Night I've all ways been that way why it's so hard to believe people can be good to other

[Blitzkrieg_88]

Women fortunately are less practical than men.

[nailu]

Why is this a recommended question for me?