The Silent Guilt of White People in America

[Apope16]

I can't imagine what it is like to be a white man today in America. As a black man who was raised in a white family and lived most of my life with white friends, I feel I may be the only one who can say this in a time of racial division without getting death threats or called racist or to be completely discredited and ignored by the torment of righteous anger that crackles and burns in streets the world over.

I want to talk to you about what it is maybe like to be a white person in America in a time of intense racial division. And I want to speak to you in a way that we only speak among close friends and family.

Black and Brown people are not the only ones suffering because of racial division. White people are too. They are scared shitless. They feel as if they are walking on eggshells.

Yet, if honest discussion about race is met with derision, humiliation, and scorn-than how can it cultivate love and understanding?

Let me ask you this, what is it like to be told that your business should burn because of the sins of your ancestors? How would you feel if I told you that because people with your skin color enslaved and were racist against people of color-that it means that everything you worked for your whole life wasn't fairly earned?

How would you feel to be told that you have to take ownership over the sins of your race and the status it gives you, and on top of that, you have to be the one to solve a problem you don't even understand?

Scripture says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." (Ezekiel 18:20)

There is no hate in the heart of many of my white friends. There is fear. Uncertainty. Confusion. Not hate. We must guide them through this journey, not persecute them.

[DizzyDesii]

I think a majority of white people dont feel guilt and for those who might, i think they just are partaking in what feels right to make other ethnicities feel comfortable atm. I dont many feel threatened at all... maybe more will think before they speak/act. I do understand that every ethnicity is being bashed in some way. But white people will never be a minority and thats just a fact. doesn't mean their life doesn't matter. It does. And i won't punish them for their ancestors sins unless they decide to follow in that persons footsteps. But yea thats all i really got to say

[DizzyDesii]

Im looking at everyone with the side eye rn... even the selfhating blacks

[Apope16]

What exactly is a self hating black? Someone who has a different political philosophy than you do?

[DizzyDesii]

No. GAG has a bunch of black people who hate other black people and refuse to even date their own kind. Basically a bunch of uncle ruckuses. So as a black person, i can't even say that im for all black people at this point because not all black people are for us

[Apope16]

Its a topic that runs deep. Why is it that many black men don't date white women. Its a touchy subject. I think if you made that into a question you would get some pretty blunt responses. But I dont think it is because black men "hate" black women. I think it has more to do with how culturally white women treat black men. And also it may have something to do with to do with the percentage of black women in the hood who are overweight or obese compared to the percentage of white women. So from an attractiveness standpoint the options are a numbers game.

[DizzyDesii]

Thats not what i mean. And lots of black men date white women. Its black women who hardly date white men. But im saying there's song black people who legit say they could never date a black person because they find their features ugly and then they follow along with stereotypes as if others dont see them as black too. Thats what i mean

[Apope16]

Who are these people who say that? Thats pretty messed up.

I primarily date white women because most of the black female options in real life or on dating apps are unhealthy and over weight.

With that said, when you sleep with a black woman that is attractive enough, you realize that black women are incredibly sexy.

[Mentalpatientzero]

I agree it's all true

[DocT1977]

Being a minority is only a state of mind. When they tell you that you need a systematic crutch like affirmative action because the system doesn't think you have what it takes to make it on your own merit is really quite telling and it's a mindset that I have come to reject. When I personally know people of all races that did things on their own without the need for reverse discrimination, the need for victim status is unwarranted.

[NellaLee]

I agree! I’m generally approached by white men and I had never thought about that it’s mainly due to the fact that I’m pretty fit, healthy and it’s the circles I hang around...

[Surely]

Almost didn't read this, but now I am glad that I did.
There needs to be a reset button somewhere so that people start to take responsibility for their own actions of today!

[Surely]

Thank you for the MHO!

[razelove]

Heh, I doubt it has anything to do with guilt and more to do with fear. So many things have shifted and changed recently, racial divisiveness is just one more to lump on. Also what's the solution to the rioting (primarily in in liberal cities anyway) and looting? Kill them all and let god sort them out? Sniping from a distance is the only thing that comes to my mind, and would definitely add more fuel to the fire if not another outright civil war.

This may result in one anyway, cops will be given orders they won't follow, and depending on how that goes the military as well. When that happens you've effectively lost them.

Anywho, I feel no "white guilt", or see a reason why I should, this furthers that saying, one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.

[Thomas__Shelby]

What if I were to tell you that no more than 50% of white families used African slaves in their households and plantations? And that an even smaller percentage used those slaves to run a plantation or farm.

I know a lot of white people don’t feel guilt over what is happening today, because whether you are a racist or not has nothing to do with your skin color, and everything to do with your heart.

A lot of people argue that the reason why there is so much racial tension is because whites judge people by the color of their skin. They couldn’t be further from the truth. Racism isn’t inspired by a difference appearance, but by a tension between cultures.

You ever wonder why there is hardly any racial tension between whites and Indians, whites and Asians, but there is between whites and middle-easterners? It’s fear.

There is racial tension between blacks and whites because of fear for each other. It’s not because we look different, but because each of their societies have supported messages of violence against each other.
And I’ll be honest with you; the media that portrays the gangster life as cool and something to aspire for isn’t helping.

In the 19th century it was the whites that committed acts of violence against Africans. Now it’s both. There are still KKK rallies and there are still cops unnecessarily shooting African Americans. But added to that mix there are many African Americans who have now reciprocated that hostility and hatred.
The whole black lives matter movement is not heading in the right direction. Just like modern feminism, it is putting one life over the other. You won’t get anywhere by telling whites they need to pay for their ancestors mistakes—that is a foolish thing to say. If African Americans advocated for love and peace, people of all races would be encouraged to do the same. I can tell you that those sincerely racist ideas that inhabit the very few, will be expunged when we all join hands and put the past behind us.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Hell, a big problem of this is the claims of our guilt to begin with. I mean did whites own slaves? Sure, about 1% of whites in America owned slaves. How many free blacks owned slaves? About 45%. Where did whites get their slaves? From African slavers. How did the irish first get to the America's? By being enslaved by Oliver Cromwell. Were does the word slave come from? Its derived from the word slav, which is were we get the word Slavic, an eastern European people i. e. white who were enslaved by the turks, mongols, huns, north Africans and the ottomans of the middle east so often that there very name became synonymous with forced servitude.

Meanwhile who ended slavery first? Whites, in some cases centuries before other groups did (like Africans and the middle east). So the question is why do we have collective guilt for slavery, something that every people did, that predates the written word while blacks get to have collective victimhood for slavery something they practiced before and after whites ended it? Why do whites not get to have collective virtue for ending slavery but blacks get to have collective outrage for something they practiced on themselves and others for tens of thousands of years? It simply doesn't make sense.

If any one were to say slavery didn't happen, they would be a liar, but any one who doesn't also acknowledge that the west was in fact uniquely against it (due to the enlightenment period and Christianity creating a moral argument against it (it basically poisoned the well just as the constitution and bill of rights did in the US (all men are created equal, with that you simply cannot have a nation that allows slavery (and I do believe that was the intent of several of the forefathers as they were themselves against slavery))), then that person is also a liar. Yet that is precisely what we see with the BLM and the claims of racism coming from the black community, they give us collective guilt, deny us collective virtue (which we shouldn't have any more then we should have collective guilt, we shouldn't have collective anything this is suppose to be a meritocracy based upon the individual not group identity), then claim collective victimhood and with it collective moral superiority all of which they have tied to race (which is racist).

So I would say almost all whites do not have racism in their hearts, they do have fear (I have been attacked for pointing these things out many times some times getting very close to being physically attacked (I can't allow that to stop me from telling the truth but one of these days, well who knows what will happen)), but they also have anger.

I live in the suburbs of Chicago, I get to hear about blacks killing blacks all the time. I worked with a guy who was shot and killed by a gang who mistook him for some one else. Seemed like a decent guy though I didn't know him that well, sure as hell didn't deserve to die. My friends son at the age of ten (he is black) had a gun put to his head by another black man who robbed him for his ten dollars that he had. I don't talk about the screwed up things going on in the black community because I hate blacks, I talk about them because I'm sick and tired of having to see this bullshit and seeing the black community blame white people for everything when we haven't done anything. I mean what the hell am I expected to do? I tell them don't break the law, stay in school, be in your kids life and don't have kids outside of marriage. They then tell me I'm racist and evil.

[hellionthesagereborn]

So clearly I cannot be responsible for this if they won't recognize my authority (and why should they, its their life) but at the same time they demand I take responsibility. What the fuck am I suppose to do? The only thing they are allowing for us to do is to sit their and grovel and beg forgivenss for things we never did for things that never happened to them and their is absolutely no end in sight because its never going to be enough. I care about people I care about the innocent people they hurt, I see how miserable this ideology makes them, but I'm also furiously angry because they are the problem but they could be the solution if they chose to be.

[BeenThereLovedIt]

As a white guy who shares your thoughts and concerns, I have a few observations.

I didn't see black and white until I was 'attacked' by a group of black teens (I was also a teen) and beat up "because your ancestors enslaved my ancestors". It didn't make me racist, but it sure made me both aware and scared.

My grandparents immigrated to the USA from Hungary. The only slavery this white guys ancestors were involved in was slavery of other white people, mostly my people by the romanians around the year 1000. I'm sure other slavery has happened countless times throughout history and had little to do with race in the grand scheme of things. I'm not entirely sure what ancestors committed which acts, but can say with complete confidence that I have absolutely no stock in what happened to black people in the USA in the past.

I DO have stock in what happens to them today.

And you are correct - to try to discuss this is borderline insanity, but I'm gonna take a whack at it.

Here's my take:
It's appalling what has happened to black people and minorities in this country. My best knowledge of the 60's to today says that yes, it's institutional and needs to be fixed, for good. No more band-aids. We need to address and fix this before it gets worse. Somehow I doubt it will be fixed though.

Of the countless reasons why it's near impossible to fix quickly, the one reason I never see anyone talking about is the black anger and refusal to be a part of this society. I had my own struggles for my first 40 years. I went bankrupt, twice. I had nothing. The first time I had a car less than 10 years old was at the age of 45. I drove deathtraps and klunkers, rented, had no assets of any kind. Had no help of any kind.

My point is that I sure didn't like the hand that I was dealt, but once I took control of my life and realized that my angst towards society was not helping, I decided to play the hand I was dealt, decided to become a part of society and stopped with the blame, excuses, and hate that was in my heart. I was done wrong, and I spit at society for it.

From my point of view, many black people also do that. They hate "white" society so much that they don't understand, society is a part of everyone in it, and if you want to change it, you have to accept it first. Most immigrants seem to understand this to some degree, but black people are holding onto such anger and resentment that they cannot seem to be able to let it go and try to be a part of things.

I'm sure I'm pissing off everyone, but nothing will change without attitude changes from BOTH sides here. I don't expect it, but I'm always willing to work towards it in good faith.

[MrOracle]

BLM isn't about black people or white guilt or any of that. Those are just pretexts. BLM is about NeoMarxism. That is the agenda of the radical left: to usher in a new version of Communism in the US. Defund The Police isn't about racist police, it's about getting rid of traditional police and replacing them with political police controlled by Marxists who will enforce Marxist ideology just as they did in the USSR. People need to remember that the USSR killed 60 million (!) of its own citizens, and it was their political police that did the arrests and executions.

The "progressive left" has run these cities (where the riots are happening) for decades, and yet these are the places with the worst of racism, and now where mayors have ordered police to abandon sections of cities - including thousands of small businesses, many owned by blacks, along with other minorities. Yet these leftists are the people who demand to be given even more power. Meanwhile people are fleeing the cities in huge numbers.

Don't be fooled by what's on the surface - look deeper. Just because the media isn't talking about it doesn't mean it's not right there on your TV.

Division and violence and intimidation and cancel culture is all just to create excuses for a massive power grab. But as soon as BLM is no longer useful, it will be abandoned and forgotten. It's not about BLM for the radical left, it's about total, unquestioned power. Then they can REALLY cancel you just as Stalin, Mao, and other Marxists canceled millions of their own people's lives. Just watch how they treat their own leaders when they aren't radically left enough. It's right there on your TV...

[Apope16]

THanks for sharing. But the mytake is not about BLM.

[chrissykerdock]

white people shouldn't have guilt... everything the blacks don't have is there own fault... how many of them can actually read college level? probably very few... how many even high school not that many either... I don't get why this is white people's fault... most of them are on drugs so they sell drugs while they're at it... they'll force themselves on you and make you suck their cocks... I don't feel any black guilt at all... plus the one's that can read get breaks more breaks than you can imagine and there's a lot of blacks that live well... this whole revolution is bullshit... the police overall aren't killing a lot of blacks needlessly... each police juricediction has their own policies some are nuts but it's for all people... eg in Pensacola they bulldozed a girl's door down arrested her and left her less than1 year old daughter in her crib... they shot a 75 year old man 26 times with a sleeping bullet but he died because he was overdosed... this is there policy... policy has to be fixed universally,,, also in Pensacola cops enter your home with guns drawn no matter what... there's problems but it's not racially motivated as they'd have you think... I don't know if the Minnesota was racially motivated... just because a black man was killed doesn't mean it was racialy motivated.

[whoamiagain]

Though people will label you as racist

you are speaking some hard truths there

We live in a world where a Black Man can murder another Black Man
or a Black Man can rob a Black owned business
or a Black Man can rape a Black Woman and leave her with the child

and White people are blamed for it

there is racism in this country no doubt
but there is also a lack of accountability.

[DocT1977]

I make no bones about where I stand. There is no such thing as "white guilt" in my world. I am only responsible for what I do, and what I do alone. I also don't believe there is systematic oppression. Maybe there is since black people are told consistently that they cannot succeed at anything on their own because they need to be coddled and nurtured by society because of the color of their skin. I have been around for a while. My observations of reality enable me to call bullshit on this whole narrative. I have been around the block a few times. I am friends with black police officers, black firemen, business owners, and at times worked for people who were black. I have also had black teachers, and even principals alike. Those are people that got to where they are on their own merit. They did not need a crutch and they most certainly didn't need anybody's sympathy to justify making something of themselves. Want to know what my vision is for equality? First, shit can that victim narrative and come out on the the field with the rest of us. Throw away your need for a pity party and come out and play. Let's go.

[Qiyndall]

Apope16, I respect and appreciate your position. I thank you for sharing the Bible verse, but I am afraid you utterly misunderstand the issue. The issue is not racism against blacks or any imagined systemic injustice at all. The issue is PART the larger issue. The goal is to ELIMINATE whiteness. Where blacks hold power over whites, there is genocide (South Africa).

Where this is not true, the modes of attack are many. Invasion by black Muslims under the guise of refugee monikers is a flood of barbaric monsters racing into ALL white-dominated nations. They are not moving to Muslim lands with similar barbaric practices. They ONLY go to white-dominated lands. They rape, rob, steal, beat & burn despite receiving 100% support (free lodging, medical, clothing, cell phones, food, education, etc.) from their white benefactors.

Why? This sounds like loony conspiracy theory... well sure it does bc nobody wants to believe evil exists. Whites are the smallest minority worldwide & are universally hated by most peoples. Why? BC whites are more successful in business, engineering, science, politics, military might & culture than the non-white nations.

Democracy hinders billionaire power grabs. To upset democracy you must bankrupt free republics & cause massive unrest among genders, religions, races & regions. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Three nations have massive internet propaganda mills that support the chaos because their geopolitical goals align with the billionaire power grabbers: China, Russia & Iran.

Whites aware of the issues even remotely feel furious.
Leftist lunatics burn businesses after robbing them, rape & beat the weaker whites they find in the streets. Without a strong national leader willing to crush the terrorists, the need for violent resistance is averted. Otherwise, it is imminent for those remaining on Earth.

[JackSmy]

I thank you for your post, your opinion.
I disagree with your assertion, that "They [white people] are scared shitless. They feel as if they are walking on eggshells."
"Walking on Eggshells?" WHY? I am not, I don't feel that way, and why should I?
I don't understand your premise.
Being responsible for ancestors, and their sins? NO, not for anyone!
What do you intend, with this post? I am confused!
What is this "fear" that your white friends have?
I have friends ('black' if you need to call out race!! They are just FRIENDS, to me!!), and during the riots, we all got together, and loaded magazines, and shotguns, sharing magazines for this, or that, and ammunition, if one didn't have much, to protect our homes, and their families, together, if the riots went to residential neighborhoods!
I think maybe you miss so many things, so many people that don't see 'color' or 'race' and just FRIENDS!
LOL! We all knew we would be OK when the 'Korean' guy joined us!!
Not "racist" but remembering the Rodney King Riots, and the Koreans on their roof, defending their stores!!

[Freddy78361]

I am not virtue signaling!
For my entire life I was taught to judge someone by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. So I did. When my daughter became friends with the African American girl up the street we were overjoyed. When an African American boy took her to homecoming senior year I was happy they were going together.
When I hire people I keep track of racial ratios in the back of my head ("am I being diverse enough in my hiring practices?").
African Americans (Can I call someone black these days?) have a hard road because many didn't have the opportunities I had. That's the truth.
I am not asking "What else can I do?" I am asking "What will it take for people to be truly equal? I hate the term 'fair' because life isn't fair but I also don't like the idea of one group being more equal in the eyes of the law.
But I honestly have no idea how I can live my life better and be less racist without actually tipping over and becoming racist.

[IAMNathanael]

Well, I'm glad to hear you say you can talk to us like friends. I think you are right and I feel this way. I've got white skin and there ain't no shame in it because I am an individual who treats others as individuals. Yet, it's pushed by groups like BLM that the only way to fix anything is for anyone with white skin to hate themselves and their whole race. And if they refuse then they're part of the problem... so it's said. But what good has hatred ever brought anyone? The answer is to love. I know I sound like a total hippie but it's true.

[Apope16]

Thanks for your honesty. I have white friends who have told me the same. It cuts deep.

[Porcelaine]

Hate breeds more hate. Love brings more love and its the only cure for hate. If only there were more 'hippies' who believed the same thing.

[nawtee_me]

I know because I am white that this will probably be taken the wrong way and I will be the one made out to be racist. But, here goes...
First when people talk about slavery do they understand that black people went to Africa and took the people there and sold them into slavery? I am sure there were white people doing it too but there were blacks doing it as well.
Next, what is this black lives matter movement? They say all lives matter but their name doesn't say that? All lives do matter... black lives, white lives, and what about the red man, the native American Indian? yes, red lives matter too... What about unborn babies? And here is where the blurring starts because yes unborn babies lives matter too unless you are pro-choice and then how can all lives matter and aborted babies not count as live? This is for white and black and red and any other color people? How can you say all lives matter and make exceptions for aborted unborn babies? Either All lives matter or all lives don't matter...

[Timmay88]

There is so much racism on all sides. I understand why black racism is a particular concern though. Blacks are what you could say the pioneers or the face of racism since history says they’ve been through the worst of it. As a white man im kind of just left here wondering what to do. I don’t know how to respond and I’m kind of afraid to since I get cut down anyway. I’ve tried to voice my humble opinion a few times only to be told I didn’t understand, I was priveledged etc. No one can talk about this lol. It’s like the Black Community wants to talk about it but not with white people. Let the have their moment and destroy stuff I guess. I don’t mean that in a demeaning way either. I just feel that my words as a white man mean nothing to comfort anyone. You just gotta let them buck. Once it’s all over and the smoke clears maybe then we can talk about it. But it seems right now, specifically in the United States there is just pure carnage or at least according to the news (I hate the news). Here in Canada I haven’t seen a whole lot of black racism in my life. There is more racism towards the Aboriginal/Native people than blacks but no one is dealing with that and in my opinion they’ve suffer just as bad if you look at Canadian History.

[whoamiagain]

Honestly, I feel no "Guilt" for being White
^ which is an ironically racist concept in itself (I should be sorry for my skin color? I should pay penance for the crimes of my forefathers? etc etc)

This assumes that my forefathers had anything to do with Slavery (Believe it or not... Many White people opposed it.. and Many White people died to end it in America)

It also ignores that reality that White People are not the only Ethnic group to have practiced such horrible things (So have Black people themselves)

Really this whole idea to me both annoys me, but also makes me feel sadden for individuals who get caught up in how ridiculous it is
FOR the constant push of Racism against White people... because well.. they are "White".. and they have "White Privilege" (because clearly White people can't suffer the same circumstances as everyone else... ) The whole idea honestly is ironically racist in itself


so no
I am not guilty for being White
I take PRIDE IN IT <---- but then again we live in a world where if a White man is Proud of being White.. he is apparently a Racist (but if you are Black.. or anything else... its totally fine?)

[Thatsamazing]

... Persecute? In what world do you live, where white Americans have been "persecuted" by non-whites for their whiteness? And "problems you don't even understand" uhh... so how about, try understanding them then. "Derp I just don't KNOWWW how to CHANGE A FLAT TIRE" so... then fucking learn.

Being criticized is not persecution. If that's what you're suggesting, I recommend consulting a good dictionary before moving forward on anything else you may write about this subject. And a good history book. Try the new Jill Lepore, "These Truths."

[Apope16]

I am not speaking my own personal opinion. I am voicing what some white people have told me.

[Thatsamazing]

Sure... and "some white people" apparently happen to not understand the nuance of the situation. Don't give simps a larger voice than they already have, mate.

[Apope16]

I believe in allowing unheard, minority voices to be heard. And I will if I find their views fascinating, give them a pulpit or veil to have their thoughts debated. This is because society is not advanced by moderation of thought. Society is advanced by extremist views or views outside the over-ton window over time. Thats how you get to the rise of an abolitionist movement or women voting and all of these other ideas that never were even imagined before they happened.

[Thatsamazing]

White people are not unheard, and are not a minority. So...

[RolandCuthbert]

I have always disagreed with most of what you have posted here. I know you won't respond. You never do.

But I just want to take this time to explain that "White" people need no guidance. "White" people in America are adults. They are mature. And they can understand the events going on around them.

1. Some "White" people are going to feel guilt and that will make them defend the institutions in this society.

2. Other "White" people will feel guilt and that will make seek forgiveness from "Black" people.

3. Truthfully, most "White" people won't feel any guilt at all. Most will simply see the way this society was built does not ensure equity of freedoms, rights, and opportunities.

"White" people can figure this stuff out all on their own. They are not children who need to be lead around by you.

[Porcelaine]

I dont think you understood this take. This was not about guidance at all, or what they want, or need. Its just something they feel or experience.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Porcelaine I have been called by so many people over the last week. For "White" people supposedly walking on eggshells, they sure have had no issues talking to me about George Floyd, police violence and systematic racism. These "White" people who run these companies have appointed me to lead a series of townhalls to create a conversation that can lead to an agenda, solutions and an action plan.

Out of the blue. So much for them needing guidance. They are going to help craft a discussion. And all we are going to do is relate our experiences, talk about our experiences and create a plan to get us there.

No one is going to be "guilty" because of their race. No one is going to feel like a criminal. No one is going to feel like they are responsible for racism. But everyone is going to have a say in how we move to a better place.

If he wants to have some whineathons. He can. But most everyone I know is trying to figure out how to foster environments where there is greater understanding.

[Porcelaine]

Well of course they were openly talking about doing some good in the name of George Floyd, but when discussing black people issues in general, white people are not allowed to have a voice, because since they're white, their opinion is invalid. Even using the word black is seen as offensive. Of course it seems out of nowhere to you, you are black and white people do not speak up about this out of fear of being bashed.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Porcelaine That makes nonsense. "Allowed"? You see, I don't know any weird people who make statements like that. Am I "allowed" to talk about "White" people? Am I "allowed" to talk about Latinos?

People aren't "allowed" to talk about things. They either do or they do not. If you have knowledge of something, then speak on it. If you are ignorant of something, tell people you are ignorant and try to learn. If you have experience with people relate your experience. Do so without slapping people in the face with your guilt.

The word "Black" is offensive? What am I supposed to say to this? Who finds the word "Black" offensive? "Black" people?

Here is a teachable moment.

Race is not something everyone uses. Believe or not, the concept of race is a lie. Just because you see a person who has dark skin, does not mean that person identifies as being "Black". Racial labels mean nothing to most people. And your ignorance is not an excuse. Learn how different groups. . . group identify.

You talk to me just like I have not been corrected by people who have told me "I am not "Black"".

I didn't go around feeling guilty just because I got someone's identity wrong. I accepted the correction, apologized then went on my merry way.

I get "bashed" all the damn time. Racists have bashed me and the people who may share some skin color with me on this page for years.

You have not said one word to them. So please go someplace with that "bashing" nonsense. We have had racists justifying the death of innocent "Black" people and threatening to kill more. And many of these fragile "White" folks at GaG simply do not care.

[Porcelaine]

"Race is not something everyone uses. Believe or not, the concept of race is a lie. Just because you see a person who has dark skin, does not mean that person identifies as being "Black". Racial labels mean nothing to most people. And your ignorance is not an excuse. Learn how different groups. . . group identify." This is exactly what I meant when I said some people find the word black offensive from a white person. Even if they identify themselves as black they simply dont like hearing it from a white person. And these days it is impossible to learn how different groups identify themselves, and what groups you speak of? These days each person identifies differently, if they have one white parent, one black, they look light skinned with colorful eyes, but if you called them "mixed" they would take offence and say they're black. Same with the opposite. And I realize I have freedom of speech no matter what, I am always "allowed" to speak my mind, but this is simply not how its received. I could talk of my own experience of black people, while having the best intentions and mean well, and they will respond how dare I even say anything at all, Im white therefore I should not even have an opinion on this subject.

[RolandCuthbert]

No, that is not true. And I am not going to you get away with posting lies.

Dominicans have told me to my face, they are not "Black". I told you this already. But you just pretend like you don't hear. If I can survive this conversation, so can you. You can do it. You have the strength, just look inside. Or just don't hang around non-"White" folks since you can't appreciate that they can be as complex and complicated as yourself.

A typical conversation between an African-American and a Dominican-American happens like this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Faqt0c-sDpo

"Whiteness" might be simple to you. But identity is much more complicated to people who ain't "White".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqn0PnkPSr0&t=206s

I am "Black" all day and all night. You can call me "Black" for as long as you like. But if you call someone else that term and they don't identify with it, take your licking just like I do and go have yourself a good cry.

Gee freaking whiz!!!

You are just lost. There is no objective way to classify people. I have told you before, I will tell you again, race is a lie.

If you insist on using it, then blame yourself.

[Porcelaine]

You literally do not understand a single word I am telling you, and go off talking about something completely different. Same way as you did not get this take at all. You make assumptions about large groups of people based on a few very specific and personal experiences, and you think its a fact for everyone else. No sir, you do not get to dictate what is a fact for people you haven't even met. Clearly you and I have different experiences, but what you saw and you heard does not make what I saw and heard false, its just different. I agree that race is a lie, its just one race-human race, but for as long as people will see color and give some importance to it, these problems will continue.
PS. You posted something in your last reply, photos or videos, none of them work.

[RolandCuthbert]

@Porcelaine No, I don't go off on different tangents. I talked directly to you. You can pretend you don't hear.

Group identity is a strange complicated thing. You labeling someone "Black" has nothing to do with the label they choose for themselves.

Now you continue to lie about what I said or how this is not related to your discussion with "Black" people etc. Tell yourself whatever you wish to get to sleep at night.

All you post is lies.

1. I made no assumptions about groups. I showed you what a typical conversation between a Dominican and an African American would be like.

2. I showed the experience of a dark-skinned Dominican woman who was rejected by other Dominicans.

3. You are here making assumptions that everyone believes in race and everyone defines race like you do. And I have told you to stop doing that. When you use the term "White", "Black" or other colors, you are only representing yourself and those people who agree with you.

4. I USE QUOTES WHENEVER I USE COLOR TO DESCRIBE PEOPLE. I HARDLY THINK YOUR SKIN IS "WHITE" THOUGH IT MAY BE A LIGHTER HUE THAN MINE. I LOOK AT MY SKIN COLOR EVERYDAY, I KNOW DAMN WELL IT AIN'T "BLACK". So what do the terms describe? They describe culture. They describe a group identity. So that is why they will always be in quotes. There are lots folks who have my skin color but do not identify as being "Black". Believe it or not, there millions of Europeans who have your skin color. But their primary identity is not "White".

[Porcelaine]

My God you do not even try for a second to understand what I am saying. Twisting my words and what I mean by them, as if you know them better. This argument has been useless. Bye

[WowwGirl]

@RolandCuthbert "wtf is going on here?"
Your words 🙂lol
I couldn't have said it better 🙂

[RolandCuthbert]

@Porcelaine Yawn. . . you whined about not being able to call people who have a certain skin complexion "Black". . . and now you claim I twisted your words. You accused me of grouping people, even though I have explained several times I am not like you. I use the terms people use to group themselves.

When a person tells you their group identity, that it one of the most important things they can tell you about themselves.

You can choose to listen or you can choose to group them.

You choose the latter. You told me this yourself.

[RolandCuthbert]

@WowwGirl I swear I don't get it. She is so defensive and she pretends like she is the only one that gets rapped across the nose for getting someone's identity wrong. I can't tell you how many times I have heard the words, "don't call me black!"

I just accept it and move on.

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine you are making yourself look really dumb I'm sorry to say. The person you are talking to/at is educated, understands, and very fair / logical to me. I feel if you had any valid points he would listen. He literally gave you a list chick

[WowwGirl]

And don't like white people saying they fully understand black people problems anymore than I like a black man telling me about white guilt I don't have.
Both may have a idea about the others position, but until you walk in either a white or black person's shoes nobody understands the other.
Both look dumb saying they do

[WowwGirl]

I will call you black, me white , a hispanic brown, Elmo red, and a smurf blue.

If someone is offended by that, I'm not the problem 🙂

[Porcelaine]

@WowwGirl yes, he gave me a list of 4 points. First two had to do with Dominicans. I did not mention Dominicans anywhere, they were not in the take either. He just decided to bring them up in a manner that was unrelated. Point 3 is basically saying that not everyone believes in race, so my opinions only represent those who believe the same thing. Well anyones opinion represents those who believe the same thing, that is common sense. Most people still believe in races, that is the problem. 4. He can use quotes as much as he wants in text, even though hardly anyone will look at punctuation and give it any significance. And he made the longest point with captals about the least important thing, just shows he does not understand what I meant.

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine you were circle talking I wasn't trying to be mean sorry if you took it that way. Sometimes we must just agree to disagree

[Porcelaine]

@WowwGirl I had to circle talk because what I said wasn't getting through. You call me dumb just because I argue with someone you think is educated. Perhaps he is, but even if his points are logical, they still hardly point out why mine are not valid. The problem is that I am talking about one thing, he is about another, and there is no way to agree or disagree when we dont even talk of the same thing.

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine well then forget about it no worries call it a wrap🙂

[Porcelaine]

@WowwGirl already did, then you come back and call me dumb :)

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine my bad my apologies

[WowwGirl]

🙂🙂🙂

[Porcelaine]

@WowwGirl no worries

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine thank you. And Please tell me if I ever look stupid it will happen if bet🤣

[WowwGirl]

I'd bet

[Porcelaine]

@WowwGirl lol I do that often. People jump to conclusions based on nothing so it annoys me :D wish you tried to understand what I meant here before quickly siding, but at least you are nice and apologized so its not likely I will be mean to you in the future. :) also I loved your take on group mentality.

[WowwGirl]

@Porcelaine thanks dear yes I should have read better and yes I'm always fine with saying sorry if I'm wrong. I'm not as bad as I come off I just word things bad a lot

[NellaLee]

Thank you so much for bringing this up. I was adopted by a white family and I'm mostly around white people for the most part of my life. They have shown me nothing but love and support. Not to say that I speak for everyone but it is sad that what MLK fought for is being thrown away like it was nothing. He didn't fight for revenge, he fought for unity. It hurts me how whites are being told that if it wasn't for the privilege, they wouldn't have what they have even though my parents had to work super hard, sleepless nights, to build their business. Yes, racism still exist but saying that all whites are racist is racist in itself and is as bad as assuming that any negative stereotypes that other races have had apply to all members of such groups.

[Barbaric]

I think this only applies to certain kinds of white people. Particularly very liberal types, the ones virtue-signalling on social media, getting on their knees and all that. Those are the ones who are scared shitless.

There are many more of us who give less and less of a shit the more we're criticised, brow-beating, accused of being racist etc.

You should also drop the condescending tone. This idea that black people should guide us because we don't know what's going on, as if you know something we don't and have authority over us in any way.

[Apope16]

Thanks for telling me about the condescending tone. It is hard to go back and forth between trying to relate to white people and at the same time trying to speak to black people and show them that you aren't being a complete sell out by trying to empathize with whites who aren't as down with the obsession of racial division

[Porcelaine]

Please dont speak for all white people or call us liberals. What a stupid generalization. And yes you would care being criticized or called a racist if you lost your job over it.

[Barbaric]

@Porcelaine

I mentioned certain types of white people, and "particularly" liberals. As in not all white people think the same, and not all BLM supporters as liberals either - but most are. BLM is a far-left group.

When I say that I don't care, I'm speaking about people being called racist simply for not for example supporting BLM. I also don't work in the kind of place or with/for the kinds of people who'd give a shit about that either, so that wouldn't even happen.

[SubhaDhar]

You should be guilt.

[sagevalentineee]

Okay... bad things have happened in the past, but the people of today cannot take responsibility for it.

Now people are trying to take down a statue of Churchill because he was a racist. WHY?

Shall we stop reading Shakespeare because he was sexist?
Shall we stop using underfloor heating because the Romans invaded us and killed our people.
Shall we declare war on America because they took credit for the invention of the lightbulb when it was invented in the UK 50 years earlier?
Shall we falsely accuse men of being rapist so they can atone for women who were made to marry their rapists?

This is not atonement, this is a vicious cycle. This is not logical, this is anger speaking. Everyone leave and come back once you have an education.

[Levin]

The fact that there's a vacuum in place of the statue says it all. Like it or not, it's part of our history. And every other country is full of evil history, too.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin Exactly. So many of these things are down to ignorance and following the herd. If people would bother to do their own research things would be different. I read a lot of pre-1800s literature, and I really love it, some of it is incredibly crude to women though. My literature teacher always says, 'don't expect there to be equality for all, there wasn't even equality between white men.' which is true. Nobles were sincerely believed to be superior, in a profound way to the poor. Scientists even tried to analyse the skull to look for differences. In such a time, how could we possibly have concept of equality for all? It's like sentencing someone for a crime that was only made illegal after it was committed. Moreover, racsim isn't even against the law, as 'everyone has the right to a belief or opinion' descrimination is however illegal.

[Levin]

There's that, and the West is in a power ascendancy. Look at the shit that's happening in other countries. Think it's so shit here? Try Russia or China...

I have no doubt at all that 'whites' would have been even more mistreated should the shoe been on the other foot. The fact is, human nature is shitty.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin I agree, people will always favour their own kind, and there's not much we can do about it. I already find the UK to be the most tolerant society there is (I don't know about America).

You're right about China, being half Chinese, fair skin is important, so all black people are essentially considered ugly. Racism is much worse in China though. a lot don't like white people much either because they think white people are fat... I mean you can't win can you...

[Levin]

I think white people are fat, too. I'm definitely fattist :( Maybe one day I will be a good person :)

"I already find the UK to be the most tolerant society there is (I don't know about America)." I should keep a record of this. The UK surely is a load of shit in a lot of regards, but look at the rest of the world. People like to criticise others but not look in their own back yard. There's more than a few problems with the Chinese system and structure of power, too, let's face it.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin I do think that. I'm only 18 I know, but I've lived in China, Russia, Italy, Switzerland and England. UK is the most tolerant. Their manners make them not want to make other uncomfortable in most situations, anything goes - in my findings at least.

[Levin]

Good. I'll use your testimony when I come into contact with a cretin on here.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin Yeah I'm probably fatist. When I see an obese person. I do perceive that person to be lazy and ill disciplined. I feel bad because it's probably only true half the time.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin 'cretin' looool I'm laughing so hard. I haven't heard that in a long time.

[Levin]

I do have empathy for peoples situations.

But I do think that A, the vast majority of white people are fat. So fat is normal. And honestly (to sound like an even more awful human being), I'm not attracted to it at all. So it's quite difficult to find a mate because a lot of girls in their 20s and 30s are really out of shape. And it's totally to do with the type of food consumed and the quantity. 'White' people to generalise eat too much meat, fat and sugar, and it makes them fat. End of story. Plus they don't move enough. There's nothing more to it than that. It has virtually nothing to do with genes. Yes, I am a total arsehole!! I went to Poland in January and it was so nice to see that virtually no women in my age range or younger were fat.

[Levin]

I'll just shut up because I'm a horrible human. haha.

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin That's great I also found another horrible human being! Nice to meet you. We can bitch together. I agree that quite a few people in America/UK/Germany have let themselves go a bit, don't take care of themselves well enough. I heard a bunch of girlfriends saying how they won't go to the gym and eat better just to please a guy, and I just think lol don't expect him to do so either then. Really, there's no excuse. Lol I'm so mean, I just take advice from my nana. She is a great lady with a young soul with gorgeous hair and a few beautiful wrinkles who has not gained weight since her last child. Go bitch!

[Levin]

By all means, you can say what you like to me :)

Although I bet your nana is only young because you're only a baby yourself :P

[sagevalentineee]

@Levin True, I am only a wee baby with a cynical yet hopeful worldview ;)

[Dutchgirl97]

I really do get upset when some people automatically assume white people are racist. Even referring to black people as "black" makes me feel like I am walking on eggshells. I love my brothers and sisters.. no matter what color. I also believe that if we could go back and change the past we would. Most Germans are ashamed of their past. Its not talked about. That was just how things were back then. It was wrong but many white people felt it was wrong even when it was considered socially acceptable. I pray that we can find unity again. And that we can be proud of different races and not hold any resentment.

[Cherokeehp]

It’s ok to call black people black. It’s actually more appropriate than saying African American. As long as you don’t call us “the blacks” like Donald Trump does.