Why I hate the RedPill/MGTOW community.

[TomGarand]

I want to start this by saying that I am not an SJW or feminist. While I am a liberal, I do agree with conservatives on some things such as looser gun laws, feminism and MeToo being corrupted, and men and women being different and having different desires (on average). So if anything, I'm a "Purple Pill" man.

Anyways, while feminism had good intentions, such as giving women equal pay and the right to vote, it's become corrupt. It encourages women to be total misandrists to men because in the past, men being sexist was more common in society. Feminism now teaches women that wanting to be a lady and a housewife is wrong. It also tells women that all men are perverts by bringing up "the male gaze", and telling them that we live in a rape culture. Now, if they were living in a Muslim country, that'd be true. But they don't! And don't get me started on that "Toxic Masculinity" bullshit. Men who choose to be manly are toxic? Get the fuck out of here with that! And the anti-male hatred only gets worse from there! Red Pill is basically a response to the SJW hellhole that feminism has become.

NCP: Feminists. Chad: Red Pill

Now, here is exactly why I hate Red Pill: Their views on women, relationships, and gender roles. Men and women are different, and have different goals and wants. But that last sentence should have ended with another two words: "On average."

A lot of Red Pill men talk about hypergamy and female nature. They point out that in most, if not many cases, women are attracted to men who are in some way "above them." Many women prefer men who are dominant, physically strong, tall, or have high social status. I understand why: These women want men who make them feel safe, and not a lot of things give off security quite like muscles or money. Most women want manly, dominant men.

However, these men think all women want that, and that women who want equal power or to be the leader in a relationship don't exist. They even go as far as to say that women who are naturally dominant (which are rare) only want men who are more dominant than them, and will cheat on them with an alpha male if they are not. But here's the thing: I know two women who are dominant, and found me attractive. The first is my friend's younger sister, who finds me attractive as hell despite being 4 inches shorter and physically weaker than her. The second is an old friend of mine who was a tomboy.

This complaint is specifically about MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way), which adopts a lot of Red Pill philosophies. What I hate about Red Pill/MGTOW is that it has a pessimistic view of relationships. MGTOW and Red Pill preach that feminism has totally corrupted Western women, and that because of how gynocentric Western countries' (Divorce and judicial) court systems are, a woman can easily ruin a man's life if she wants--which she can. And for those reasons, one of MGTOW's core beliefs is that men should not try getting married or having a serious relationship.

And their cynicism is worsened by many women having completely unreasonable dating standards(Thanks a lot Tinder), only wanting to date the absolute BEST men (6 feet, 6 figures, 6 inches) while they themselves are by no means high value women. But there are some women in the Western world who aren't nagging evil harpies, and have realistic expectations for men.

Plus, I'm living proof that MGTOW's negativity is a crock of shit! I'm 5'6, weak, and submissive--traits that make getting women much harder for men--and I still managed to get female attention. My friend's dominant sister, and my old tomboy friend saw me as an attractive man. And despite not being a Chad in high school, I had a few girls flirt with me. Now realistically, it's gonna be hard for me to attract women due to the traits I mentioned, but it won't be outright impossible. So I have a more optimistic view on relationships and dating.

Here is another problem I have with Red Pill. It shames men who don't want what THEY want. Most men naturally want to be masculine, and are attracted to feminine (and oftentimes submissive) women. But men who don't want to be your standard manly man, or find women with masculine traits attractive? Red Pill men just LOVE to call them "beta males", "simps", "cucks", or "soy boys." While I'm not effeminate, (I have stereotypically male interests and I can handle violence pretty well) I don't want the life that these men want. I don't want to be very buff or "a Chad", I prefer dominant women for my relationships, and I'm attracted to women who are tomboyish or have masculine traits. I'm everything that Red Pill men hate!

Honestly, one of my biggest fictional crushes (What kid DIDN'T have one growing up) was Revy, from the anime Black Lagoon (pictured below). She doesn't have a feminine bone in her body; she's basically an alpha male with breasts. She's dominant towards the main protagonist, assertive and aggressive, uses and is skilled with guns, is athletic and a good fighter, actually enjoys fighting, and is willing to kill something or someone. That last trait is a bit extreme, but it's still a masculine one. Revy has more testosterone than a goddamn bull shark, and that's what I loved about her.

Revy, from the anime Black Lagoon.

Another problem with Red Pill's view on relationships is that it generalizes women. Apparently, most of these men don't understand what a middle ground is. These two phrases are popular in Red Pill: AWALT (All Women Are Like That) and NAWALT (Not All Women Are Like That). Just like how these people generalize women as wanting dominant men, they generalize all Western women as being "masculine", slutty, and corrupt, saying that Western men should go to foreign countries if they want to have the happy traditional marriage that they desire. There are some Western women who are conservative and believe in traditional values. Or at the absolute least, are decent people! I'm not judging men for wanting to date and find love abroad, but if they're doing it because they lump all Western women in the same bag as a bunch of bitches, then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

So, those are my problems with Red Pill/MGTOW. It generalizes women, demonizes men who are submissive or aren't masculine, has a pessimistic view of dating and relationships, and many of its members can't find a middle ground.

[Barbaric]

As I've mentioned to you before, redpill ideas aren't just pulled from nowhere. It's based on observable patterns of behaviour in men and women, behavioural psychology, evolutionary psychology, regardless of what those people say and believe.

It's about the way most people think relationships work based on their personal feelings, biases, old ideas, what people say they want, vs evidence of behaviour.

Behaviour is always a better indicator of true motivation and desire than words. People lie all the time. Most people lie to themselves, mainly because they let their feelings get in the way. Women especially, but also men like yourself, will reject truth if it feels bad. Even when they're being honest about what they think, if they're lying to themselves then what they think is false and what they're telling you is false - but their behaviour and often the things they reveal indirectly without realising it when they speak will reveal the truth.

Whether a guy who takes the redpill (and doesn't reject because "feels bad and I don't like it") becomes pessimistic or optimistic depends on his mindset. You can use redpill ideas to improve yourself and your relationships. I'm more of an optimist. I sometimes come across as an angry misogynist to some people but that's not it, and I don't find these things disturbing. The ones who do just don't get it.

MGTOW guys are also guys who think that the world should work the way they think it should work, based on their beliefs and the blue-pilled things they've been taught. They're angry at human nature, which is stupid. You too, only for a different reason.

[TomGarand]

I never said that Red Pillers pulled their beliefs out of their ass. I already pointed out that men and women have different desires on average.

And how am I angry at human nature?

[TruthBringer]

@barbaric You absolutely NAILED IT! You've gained a new follower

[Barbaric]

@TruthBringer

Thanks man

@TomGarand

You speak as though redpillers believe what they believe because of want, and you hate them for that, when really their ideas are based on the way the world really works.

You're angry because you want a dominant woman and to stay submissive. Your ideas aren't based on the way the world really works, they're based on how you wished the world would work.

[TruthBringer]

@TomGarand You've admitted to be a submissive male obviously are unwilling to change that. That alone makes you incompatible with red pill. So it doesn't come to me as a surprise that you bash red pill. But let me tell you something, it's thanks to the red pill that has helped me in both dating and ambitions. Something all the advice from society and women never helped me achieve what I wanted. Either it was the girl or something I truly wanted. It was thanks to the red pill that I've made a boost in overall progress in my life. The moment I stopped doing what society was indoctrinating me to do, I started seeing results. One of the things is getting girls by stop being the nice guy who pedestalizes and chases them.

[TomGarand]

@TruthBringer I never did anything to imply that I was a nice guy. And if you paid attention, you would gave seen that I know what the majority of women want. I already know that at large, women want dominant men.

Plus, I know two women in my life who are naturally dominant, because I've interacted with them both. My only problems with Red Pill are the generalizations about men and women that they make, and the pessimism of the people in it (Most of these people are MGTOW). Most men naturally want to be masculine and dominant, but not all of them. Similarly, not all women want to be feminine and submissive.

[Barbaric]

There are plenty of women who seem to be "naturally dominant". Who are very confident, out-spoken, assertive etc. There are plenty of marriages where the woman wears the pants. You can find examples of "dominant women" everywhere. You just don't understand what's going on there - that's wishful thinking. Have you dated any?

Those women are mostly miserable. The men are miserable too. It's those types of relationships which end up sexless, or with her cheating. This isn't me just being pessimistic, this is something I've been studying for a long time. I've spoken to men in sexless marriages also, many of them, and it's always the same story. In fact now I tell them their story before they tell me, and they're like "wow, how did you know?"

Truly dominant women don't exist. Those women have been raised feminist, and their instinctive desires conflict with their socially conditioned desires.

[TomGarand]

Yes, my ex. Although she was a bit of a tomboy when I met her. I did have a fling with my tomboy friend, but she went down the SJW rabbit hole.

Finally, I honestly do see myself in a relationship with my friend's sister, if we actually have a connection later down the road. She's the one I mentioned who called me attractive, despite being short and a Sub.

And some info about her? According to her brother, she does value confidence in men. Many of her ex-boyfriends were buff, tall, and confident (She likes it when someone she's leading is able to do hard labor). But these relationships always failed because these men had huge egos and were too cocky to follow her lead. In fact, this is a problem in her younger sisters' love lives too, even though only the youngest is also dominant (The other two girls are not).

Her brother told me that being muscular is preferred, but not a requirement. So so far, things between me and her are going just fine.

[Barbaric]

Tomboys usually do go down the SJW rabbit hole. They're often only that way because of the feminist conditioning, and usually have mental health issues. They're dysfunctional. Dysfunctional people's relationships never last in the long-term either.

Well, see what happens there I guess.

[TomGarand]

My ex was a tomboy, and she was never political. In fact, I almost never see one who's actually an SJW.

And even though I don't agree with the Red Pill's views on romance and relationships, I am interested tips on business, as an aspiring Pro YouTuber. Maybe I'll message you about that on a later date.

[TruthBringer]

@TomGarand Yes, many of the red pill community are bitter or at least act like they are bitter. But is that what the red pill is trying to teach men? To become bitter? No. Everyone reacts differently when exposed to harsh realities. Some form bitterness within them, others take it as it is and act accordingly. This applies to feminism aswel. The movement started off with genuinely wanting equal rights for both genders but now it is all about destroying men. And just like @barbaric has been saying, many of those "dominant" women are MISERABLE. Literally every reltationship I've been in, my "mother in law" was wearing the pants. They are all miserable and are nagging the heads off of their husbands. In my previous relationship, the girl was the exact same. Constantly shittesting and trying to establish dominance. Nagging me about the most trivial shit. But since I don't budge, not only does it frustrate her more, me putting her in her place gets her wet. I see a MAJOR difference in overall happiness and dynamics between a relationship where the woman 'leads' and one where a man leads. And you can clearly see the women who aren't leading in the relationship are often happier. That is what I've seen, experienced and that is what the red pill also teaches.

So not only have I seen this shit around me, but I've also experienced it. And the red pill is SPOT ON about warning about these situations. I believe you have a prejeduce against the red pill because it warns men not to become a man of your nature. Which is a submissive one. Just because a man isn't submissive, doesn't mean his ego is inflated or he is abusive. Which are terms I take very much with a grain of salt because any man nowadays who doesn't submit to a woman's manipulations, entitlement and HER inflated ego, he is called "toxic", "abusive", "has a big ego" etc.

[TomGarand]

@TruthBringer Women who wear the pants are often unhappy? Dude, that is what you get when you indoctrinate generations of women to go against their biology. I knew after watching the "Chad" video above that most women want strong men to lead them, because of biology. The VAST majority of women do NOT want control.

But those two friends of mine? I had a fling with the second one, who was a total tomboy. And she genuinely liked being the boss.

The same thing with my friend's little sister. According to her brother, she thrives when she's in control. She absolutely loves to be in charge, both inside and outside of relationships. I told Barbaric about her and my experiences with her above. And unlike your "mother-in-laws", as you put it, she's not nagging at all. She's a pretty nice person.

Just like how your experiences have taught you about what men and women want, mine have taught me. Yes, plenty of women want to submit to a strong man, and feminism has starved them of that male leadership. But there are exceptions.

[TruthBringer]

@TomGarand Now this is a response that puts a smile on my face. It's good to see we're both recognizing the same bigger picture. And of course, the world is vast and there are billions of people. There will always be people who stand out and aren't the same as the majority. Even though most women don't want control, there are always those who are the exception to the rule. I myself am yet to find a non-naggy woman who is in charge. But it would be foolish of me to say they aren't out there. Because they are

[TomGarand]

@TruthBringer I'm glad we could come to an understanding, but in this final response, you said one of the things I said above. Most women want strong, manly men to either lead them or share power with, but feminism has emasculated many men (At least here in the West). But there are exceptions to this.

This is kind of a question about how I wrote this Mytake. Was I... not clear enough when I worded that part? Because when I write questions or Mytakes here, I try to be as clear as I can.

[TruthBringer]

@TomGarand Nah on the things we've foudn common ground, these things were clear. I think you got the wrong impression of what red pilled men want to become. Like wanting to become Chads. Red pill doesn't tell you to become a 'Chad', it tells you how women can be and how to deal with them accordingly. Hell even MGTOWers are sick of it and don't even want to be Chads. THey don't have to. They opt-ed out of the dating market. And don't forget, even though I'm not MGTOW, those who are often got SCREWED OVER by women. Especially in divorce courts. Hence why the bitterness is out there. And tbh, I think it's justified to point. Anyway, when red pill says women want dominant men, they speak about the majority. Of course not all women want dominant men, but the odds of finding a woman who truly wants a submissive man are slim compared to the "normal" woman. So they focus on that. 'AWALT' is a means of coping and is often used out of bitterness. Red pill gives knowledge and tells you how to deal with it. Unfortunately, many men become bitter when they discover some truths about women. That's the down side. It doesn't advocate hate and that's what matters. Afterall, I can't hate an alligator for being an alligator.

Also, your title pretty much sets the premise of where it goes. And in my own comment, you've mentioned that rape being something normal in a Muslim country, which is far from the truth. If you even look at statistics, Muslim countries aren't even in the top of the list regarding to rape.

[R4zor]

Shot down hahaa nice job

[Shuttlebus78]

MGTOW actually hate women and so do Red Pills. Anytime someone allows their hate to overcome their rationality, they become ineffective.
www.mgtow.com/.../

[Barbaric]

@Shuttlebus78

I don’t think most people outside of the red-pill community actually understand it at all. What makes you think that red-pill guys hate women?

I mean there are some guy who claim to be red-pulled who hate women, but those are people who’ve been unsuccessful with women and somehow still think they have it all figured out. Meanwhile there are plenty of guys who are successful, either in dating/getting laid or who have been married for decades who are “red-pilled”.

[TruthBringer]

@Shuttlebus78 Ah yes, because some of them hate women, that makes ALL of them hate women now. GTFO 😂

[Moose304]

I can only add something to this conversation things based on my own observations over the last 40 years. I am in my 60s now. I live alone by choice and I am 100% happy and NOT looking. I won't say the actual number, but I am speaking about OVER 25 people both male and female I have spoken to in those 40 years. To a person, every male I have spoken to was cheated on by their wife, divorced, and taken to the cleaners by that divorce. Some have not seen their kids for years and the ex has poisoned them against their fathers. EVERY ONE has expressed their intention to NEVER have another meaningful relationship, several are still in their 20s and 30s. ONE is a Medical Doctor who makes OVER 300K a year! I have also spoken to some females most are 50somethings and above. All but one regret how they treated their husbands and in some cases even after remarriage did the same thing to their 2nd husband. Most of them are living OK, but I hear from other friends they admit to crying at night! It is a fact men are shying away from commitment because of this dynamic. It is also going to get much worse until there are some common-sense changes to divorce laws that don't penalize men! You can get angry and call me names! That's OK, but I had my heart ripped out years ago and thankfully learned to not trust women ever again! I still date, and we really have a lot of fun. I don't engage in exclusive relationships and I am honest upfront about it! I get asked from time to time why I am so cold and distant and won't allow a female inside my trust zone. I just answer it this way! When you have Mike Tyson hit you in the stomach, you don ever want to even come close to having it happen again! It is what it is and women need to understand there is a price to be paid for some of this misandry, and YES this is exactly what it is!

[Celtero]

Eh, I dislike them for the reason that they're absolutist, and they often are over critical of women where mgtow is irrelevant. "Look, a woman fucked up her job, haha, women are so stupid."

That's fine if you prefer the blue pill. I wish I had an optimistic view on women but it's just too hard for me.

[TomGarand]

I'm not Blue Pilled, dude. I said outright that I know women want strong, dominant men. Women want men who make them feel safe and feminine. But I've seen happy relationships where the man and woman share equal power, or the woman is the leader. Admittedly, the latter is rare.

One of my main points as to why I dislike Red Pill is that they don't understand that male-led relationships work the best ON AVERAGE. Women want men to wear the pants, but there are exceptions. And I have my own experiences to go by (my two female friends, plus a follower I have who's married to a dominant tomboy), just like the Red Pill/MGTOW men do.

[Celtero]

I've seen dominant women too, and the men who married them are miserable, constantly bossed around as their wife grows fatter and frumpier.

[TomGarand]

Then I guess I got lucky.

[bamesjond0069]

I agree with @celtero men in ltrs with dominant women aren't happy. If they are they have serious mental issues and no self esteem. I remember a neighbor couple years ago she would beat him with a shoe and call him names while he's whimpering "yes Ma'am". This is not even the most outlandish behavior I've seen from these couples. And if it really does work for some its got to be sub 1% and not even worth mentioning.

[Shuttlebus78]

And I think it’s funny guys try to tell women what they want. They want decent guys. Not losers with a ton of negative baggage.

[Celtero]

@Shuttlebus78 Did you just criticize people who say what women want only to say what women want?

But more importantly, who the fuck cares what they want?

[Yads_Is_Back]

I have your exact same views and I’m a woman. This is where compromise comes in - why the miserable and pessimistic MGTOWS/incels and feminists can’t agree. They refuse to accept what you and I see. You said it all. If I knew you I’d ask for an autograph - not kidding.
So to prove you and me right even further on this, let’s pay attention to the responses you get on this myTake. Most will shun what you’re saying and refuse to see your points because as you said they are pessimistic and miserable. If they have an open mind and actually want to compromise with the other gender and make the world better with this then they’ll acknowledge what you said. I wonder how many will now refuse it.

[Shamalien]

I'm surprised. As far as men and women go, yeah, what he said was basic common sense stuff, but I just don't get why people demonize mgtow and use the word incel. Serious lack of understanding and compassion for these people's situations in my opinion. Masculinity (in men) is under attack in modern western societies, and this has left large groups of (mostly younger) men feeling displaced and disenfranchised, like they are not needed or wanted, which as men we NEED to feel. I'm not defending the assholes who say "all women are this, all women are that" but in my experience that is a 'vocal minority' of the community.

[Shuttlebus78]

@Shamalien because they demonize women. I think it’s even sadder that they pick on weaker people like chicks.

[givenup2180]

Geed luck getting a woman to compromise. Only a select few women would even consider anything that resembles a compromise. Generally it's their way or the highway.

[PsychoKitten]

Cool story... not much is sexier than a man who isn't quite man enough to stand up for what he believes lol
We see right through you.

[TomGarand]

What are you talking about?

[Juxtapose]

Yeah I'm curious too.

[Syrian_survivor]

I'm even more curious

[Shamalien]

Thank god someone sees through him, @yads_is_back made me sad cause she always seemed like one of the smarter women on this site, but she took the bait hook line and sinker XD

[Yads_Is_Back]

@Shamalien Troll 😂 if someone is gonna say I lack knowledge, they should at least have more than I do. Your efforts are failures here.
But merry Christmas lol

[Syrian_survivor]

I'm now curious about what the 2 people above me are talking about too

So much curiosity

[Drakkith]

My problem with the Redpill/MTGOW community is that it claims that its ideas and philosophies are supposedly "based on observable patterns of behaviour in men and women, behavioural psychology, evolutionary psychology" (quoting the user Barbaric in another comment here) when in reality they are based on a heavily biased view of these things. It suffers heavily from cherry picking, faulty logic, logical fallacies, and an extremely incomplete and faulty understanding of actual science in regards to evolution and psychology.

Every time I see a sentence that begins with, "According to evolutionary theory" or "Evolution says" I want to faceplant into my keyboard, because I am almost guaranteed to read something that modern evolutionary theory doesn't support at all.

Even when they bring up legitimate issues, they are rarely discussed properly, no realistic or reasonable solutions are brought up, and the entire thing descends quickly or instantly into woman-hating or beta-bashing.

I think the fundamental problem is one that plagues everyone. Namely that understanding anyone other than yourself is hard, and it gets harder the more different those people are to you. Combine that with the anonymity and the echo chamber effect that the internet gives and you get a feedback loop of hate and misunderstanding with little to no desire to have real, meaningful discussions about any of the actual issues that the RedPill/MGTOW community should be addressing and even less actual actions to change anything.

Unfortunately, people are often strongly attracted to groups or movements that make them feel special or validated, regardless of whether or not that group's philosophies and ideas are actually accurate. And I think that's exactly what the RedPill/MGTOW communities do. They offer validation, vindication, and a feeling of comradery that lasts only as long as you don't look under the surface and examine things further.

Now, I could certainly be wrong, but that's my viewpoint based on the RedPill/MGTOW people I've encountered and the things I've read from them and about their communities. And I'm sure I've lumped the two communities together as one thing when they are really separate communities with distinct ideas, but I have a limited amount of time and space to make this comment, so I hope some leeway will be given.

[Shuttlebus78]

They pull stats out of their asses too.

[JBR1957]

If you read this article completely did you have a hard time distinguishing between the writer and careful thoughtful analysis? The biggest problem of reviewers is thinking their review should be the basis of preventing another persons actions in life. Why is it their job to comment on how we live? He shared several times on how much he becomes upset when others do this to himself.
MGTOW is not a sudden decision it’s based on the number one reason for any decision, experience. I’ve heard many insults usually linked to sexuality in truth I like many have been married, I have children. Those experiences reflect our future decisions. The writer reviewed the movement and decided to stay with the current relational styles in America the difference between him and I is I don’t have the slightest issue with his decision. If he feels it’s best then fine. I truthfully don’t care what he decides.
The threat and why it’s being discussed is it’s effecting male martial and relational decisions past the point of where is a tiny fraction of men. Many men just aren’t marrying any more. Just twenty years ago the numbers were the opposite. Don’t quote me on the numbers but I think the men wanting marriage in 2000 was 37 percent and today it’s like 23 percent. Women reflect the opposite over the same period.
Men have the right just as women to say generally I don’t care for the modern selection. This is huge who wants to be with a person they don’t care for in their general philosophies on life. You shared how two women saw you in life that’s great but it is just two women of course you may know more but that wasn’t shared. You also shared your feelings of rejection from men who didn’t quite view you in a favorable light. All men grade one another sometimes vocally other times with a look still others briefly as they travel through life. In other words we all do it. You do it yourself when you describe us. After review you decided you liked a tempered approach incorporating a small slice of the MGTOW pie.
In closing this is MGTOW unlike 12 step groups you incorporate what you like and leave the rest behind. Some men don’t date others do, some men are sexual others are. There isn’t this cookie cut method. There is no MGTOW police even if they suggest a more militant approach their one of how many voices out there. I proscribe to no living with a female and no marriage. It also makes more sense for me not to date any woman long term

[John212]

Kinda late to the discussion but how old are you? These thoughts and feelings are very subjective to age. This is something I see and have experience. People change with age. So I'm 42 and red pill hits it pretty close to the mark at this age. When I was 20 30 not so much. I more agree with your point of view. See when women reach about 35 games over and they absolutely change. They want money and someone to take care of them. And in return they offer nothing to very little. Looks are gone sex drive is gone and they want a financial slave. I have yet to meet a woman past 40 who is not like your typical feminist. They don't have much of a body they hate men and feel entitled to the best of the best of men. So in that respect if your a 40 year old man that happens to be single for whatever reason love life's relationships and all that are simply over. The only ones left much like ourselves are damaged goods. Kids that aren't your's to take care of and have no structure because women don't discipline. Plus any woman who is single at this age is almost always single by choice because she got spoiled and thought like she does when she was younger and figured she could get away with being basically a ho and she could find someone else. So that's what men are left with to choose from. A woman who is looking for a handout in trade for sex. It's depressing and some days I don't even want to wake up anymore. Because it's lonely and you have to face the reality that your going to be alone forever simply because women are not worth it anymore. Could i date? Sure. But you have no idea how badly the choices are. It's financial suicide. And for what? Like I said some saggy vindictive women with kids who honestly has no use for men anymore other than the typical help with money and fixing things. She doesn't want more kids so there for has no reason for sex anymore. And if she does she will just go on tinder hook up with some random and be good for awhile. And then there's your friends who are married... there miserable because it's the same situation. Turns out having all those kids and being in debt isn't as fun as she thought it would be and blames you because your not as rich as her friends husband. So she secretly hates you and doesn't sleep with you and thinks about leaving but she's trapped so occasionally she steps out and has a fling. Moral of the story is people suck and getting older really sucks. So try to enjoy your youth and hopefully find someone who you can spend those years with until she decides on a divorce because she will eventually. Because women are easily distracted and all it takes is one minute for her to decide that sleeping with this guy will somehow fix all her problems and instead destroys a entire family.

[Shamalien]

The redpill / mgtow community is about a lot more than just male / female dynamics. It's about society as a whole, how modern western society is hostile towards men being masculine, and what our reaction as men should be. Not all men want to be masculine and not all women want to be feminine... this is fine and natural and there's nothing wrong with it, HOWEVER, there is a massive orchestrated effort to emasculate men and de-feminize women, and if you are not aware of this, then you are living your life with 'eyes wide shut' :P

So to people who naturally are the opposite of their common gender role, fine, great, I'm happy for you. For the rest of us who feel displaced and want to embody our masculinity as a man or femininity as a woman, please try and understand why we feel the way we do, and don't get all butthurt when we try to advise others in our situation on how best to reach OUR potential as the beings WE are. Any women wanting to be a traditional wife on the west coast of NA or Europe will know exactly what I'm talking about here. Same goes for men living in these regions.

As a disclaimer, I'll mention that there are a lot of really toxic individuals in these communities... yes they are vocal, but they are also the minority. Also, these are not widely adopted and promoted ideologies, they are, if anything, censored and suppressed, and demonized. MGTOW, unlike better known social justice movements like feminism, does not try and re organize society or tell others how to live their life. It is in no way invasive. It's simply reminding people (specifically men in this case) that you can always just walk away. You don't have to play the game if you think it's unfair. Most of the conversations I've had with people who identify as MGTOW were very polite and reasonable, these are, for the most part, good people just trying to find their way in life, and as they aren't hurting anyone, I don't see why people need to demonize them so.

[OddBeMe]

I can feel the anger here. And I think that’s what we’re all replying to. Aren’t you displacing your inability to get women onto others? You’re blaming everyone under the sun, feminists, jocks etc., for your problems.

[Anonymous]

I think you kind of missed the point about MGTOW.
As a philosophy, the point is self-ownership. Meaning don't let your emotional well being hinge on women's approval, and don't shape your life around getting women's approval. There's also a practical component which varies in intensity but can be broadly covered with "don't get involved with women", but even more fundamentally it would be "don't make yourself vulnerable to women *today*." They're looking at the problems with divorce and false accusations on the more devastating end down to the small things and don't see why they should subject themselves to those things or those risks. That's the point: Take control of your life, don't pedestalize women, avoid them until the danger subsides.

You talk about averages, but then didn't afford the red pill as a concept the same benefit of the doubt. The idea the red pill present is that women are human too. interestingly the feminist slogan which is normally retarded actually fits perfectly here: It is the radical notion that women are human too. But people love to hate this stuff, that's why that rationalize it as misogynist, etc.

[Shuttlebus78]

No sorry they say this to cover what they are really about.
www.mgtow.com/.../

[Opinion Owner]

@Shuttlebus78 You didn't read past the title did you?

Having feelings of hating women is a thing many of them go through, that's part of what it as a philosophy aims to overcome, just like I said. You pointed at a guy who hasn't progressed far on the path and you want it to be what they all are like so you decided that it was and that everything else is a lie. Instead, let's take a look at what some of the others had to say:

"The hate thing is a phase, I went through it myself. A MGTOW on the right track will eventually drop it and move on."

"I don’t hate them. Like many of you had established, hate is a waste of energy and time that could be used in a productive way."

"When I first took the Red Pill I was mad about it. Not anymore. It is what it is."

Of course you are going to see hateful guys in that context, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss MGTOW. they've got a philosophy and a many guys that live up to that and overcome hatred for a more positive outlook. Deciding that hate is the *real* goal is obviously your prejudice talking. It makes more sense for *you* to take a page from them and try focusing on the positives as well: Even though you might prefer them to have a different outlook, they deserve at least a modicum of praise for lifting many men away from hatred, and encouragement for them to do good things in the future... or would you just prefer they be your boogeyman?

[Shuttlebus78]

Nope sorry they don’t get over it. They just hate women. It wasn’t just one article saying something like that either. It reminds me of people who passively followed the NAZI party. The party tried to make Germany out to be a victim just like MGTOW does with men. When in real life, what they really stand for is hate.

[Opinion Owner]

@Shuttlebus78 Ironic when you're making your own comparison demonizing and dehumanizing them. At least a hateful guy that's MGTOW has taken a step toward being free of his hatred, meanwhile you're just here salting the earth. You are just being toxic. Here's hoping you overcome that.

[Shuttlebus78]

They don’t though. Plus their whole evolution is based on hate. Nothing good comes of it.

[Opinion Owner]

@Shuttlebus78 *Your* link shows guys that did. This is just you with your ears plugged again, hearing what you want to hear.

"Plus their whole evolution is based on hate."
Does that actually mean anything, or did you think it just sounds cool?
It's a philosophy of moving on -- from hate included.

"Nothing good comes of it."
Again, except for the guys you showed us that got some good from it...

[Shuttlebus78]

Nope again sorry but not sorry, they stay angry despite what they say. There are plenty of guys on here who fit the profile. I’m glad loser men don’t want anything to do with women. That just means there will be more quality relationships by quality people. Losers aren’t quality. Anything that starts from hate only leads to spitefulness and misery. I refuse to live life like that.

[Shuttlebus78]

Oh also that’s one of many links. Go to any of their forums and that is all they do. Hate bitch and moan like snot nose kids.

[Opinion Owner]

@Shuttlebus78 “I’m glad loser men don’t want anything to do with women. That just means there will be more quality relationships by quality people. Losers aren’t quality.”
They’re still people, they don’t stop existing because you don’t care about them. When you disenfranchise people, they turn on you. You won’t be “glad” about their circumstances if they delved into hatred and lashed out violently at people. Again, this is you being a toxic idiot. If you wanted good things for the world, you’d want good things for them too. But you decided the best answer to hate is to hate. Good job.

“Anything that starts from hate only leads to spitefulness and misery. I refuse to live life like that.”
And yet here you are being vitriolic. Nice. Quite the play, big brain.
Couldn’t help yourself. lol

Instead of shooting yourself in the foot, here’s a less hateful response you could have offered them:
Good lock with your toxicity and hatred. Goodbye.

#muted

[Shuttlebus78]

I agree. It’s unfortunate when people are dehumanized. However, that’s all MGTOW and Red Pill men do is trash talk about women and dehumanize them. They should stay alone and do the gene pool a huge favor. Nobody wants kids who are raised by sick minded parents. Most of these guys have been given opportunity after opportunity. Now since things are evening out they feel discriminated against. No I don’t want people like them to be rewarded for hatred. I’m not goi g to kiss their asses like their moms and dads do by letting them live in their basement either. They chose to be the way they are. I wish they weren’t bitter MGTOW. At the end of the day though, it’s their decision and their actions. This is what happens when society becomes spoiled by material things. They start to believe that’s all marriage and family is. It’s all on them. I think it’s absolutely justified to have ill will towards negative people. I hate hard core feminists too. All of you need thrown out for the good of society.

[TruthBringer]

"Now, if they were living in a Muslim country, that'd be true." and that's where I stopped reading. Most likely an American who has never been or lived in a Muslim country. Newsflash: Not every Muslim country is Saudi Arabia. And even there you will pay an even more hefty price for raping someone

[Juxtapose]

Any woman living under true Sharia is never free.

[TruthBringer]

@Juxtapose Yeah, and a lot more Muslim countries have no Sharia.

[Juxtapose]

I wouldn't really call that a Muslim country at that point, it's too secular like the USA.

[TruthBringer]

@Juxtapose Any country that has more than 1 religion is not entirely that religion's country. There are plenty of countries where the majority are following a particular religion but the government is secular. But you can still call it (insert religion) country

[Juxtapose]

A "Religion Here" country is a theocracy in my opinion.

[TruthBringer]

@Juxtapose I'm opinionated that religion and government must be seperated from each other. Religion is a very personal thing which many people having various interpretations. Hence why there are sects in mainstream religion.

[Juxtapose]

Same here, especially since I'm an atheist and don't want laws based on superstition to govern me.

We just have different interpretations of what a Christian, Muslim or whatever country would be defined by. There are gray areas but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Unit1]

MGTOW logic lesson essentials.
If you're a man and you love women or court them (without being taken advantage of!) like a normal man OR you're a woman, then you can't win. You're evil!

No thanks. I'm outta that community.

[goaded]

You misunderstand what toxic masculinity is. It's not "Men who choose to be manly are toxic", it's the pervading attitude that men should only behave a certain way is toxic. (The term was invented by MRAs, iirc.) I stopped at that point.

[Shuttlebus78]

No this is what MGTOWS really believe in. It is toxic.
www.mgtow.com/.../

[Browneye57]

TLDR. You whine too much, and your level of confusion is astounding.
Girlie-men suck. Period.

[Shuttlebus78]

No he just doesn’t hate women. There is a difference. Also if your married MGTOW dudes hate you already.

[Browneye57]

@Shuttlebus78 - He's a simp.

[TomGarand]

Do you not understand that this toxicity doesn't help the MGTOW community in the long run?

[Browneye57]

IDGAF

[OddBeMe]

It’s the learned helplessness of the incel community that bugs me. It’s aways someone else’s fault.

[TomGarand]

Agreed.

[sp33d]

This ideology errs already at its foundation. "Red pill" assuming it reveals some (inconvenient) truth. Looks more like these "red pillers" actually took the blue pill, woke up in their beds and believed whatever it was they wanted to.

[BeenThereLovedIt]

I think all sides of this discussion have valid and debatable points. I can appreciate your thoughts and breakdowns.

[Juxtapose]

Pretty much sums up my feelings on this.

They have good points but they go too far and are too absolutist.

[apimpnamedslickback]

Why do some people think they can write on a topic after they watch ONE youtube video on that subject? Your observation was very shallow. Even though I only read a couple of lines of this mytake, I knew where you were going.

[Shuttlebus78]

I’ve read a lot about red pill and mgtow and I can tell you their root is hatred towards women. Decent men have decent relationships with women.

[Archerer]

Women want all men to be the tote bag wearing Disney crying guy EXCEPT the one they are dating.

[KrakenAttackin]

So don't be a MGTOW and go back to drinking Soy, problem solved.

[TomGarand]

Did you not read the first two paragraphs? I said I'm not like the feminist SJWs. In fact, I oppose them.

[Syrian_survivor]

Why soy?

[KrakenAttackin]

I did and I still don't know why you wrote whiny piece.

[Shuttlebus78]

Kracken your views have changed quite a bit within a short amount of time. Yoh used to be pro woman hating. I guess you only stand for what you think the cool kids are doing at the time.

[IlluminatiExposed0]

As soon as someone starts talking about Red PIlls, Blue Pills or Pink Pills I switch off. They've lost the power to think objectively.

[loveslongnails]

Wait... you want gun laws to be looser than they are NOW?

[Anonymous]

You just haven't been trashed by women enough yet. Eventually, you will take the red pill.

[TomGarand]

Dude, I'm 5'6. For me, there most certainly will be trashing. But I'm still optimistic, after my past experiences.

[Opinion Owner]

That will go away. I'm 5'10" (not tall enough), not rich, and not a male model.

[Opinion Owner]

And no longer optimistic.

[TomGarand]

I disagree. But I do think women being shallow like that regarding height is stupid. So I do feel sorry for you.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks. It's also the money (I make a very good living but not a 7 figure yearly income), and of course the fact that I am average looking.

[TomGarand]

Did you have... any successes with women, at all? You're 4 inches taller than me, so that should give you a bit of an edge.

[Opinion Owner]

I do, but prior to my current SO, it's been a struggle.

[TomGarand]

What happened?

[Opinion Owner]

I got very lucky.

[Anonymous]

No offence, but you should probably give up on mytakes. Writing these will just waste your time.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

Why?