Why Guys Who Believe In The Friendzone Annoy Me

[sandyyy_]

I often hear people referring to the friendzone. According to a quick google search, a friendzone is "a situation in which a friendship exists between two people, one of whom has an unreciprocated romantic or sexual interest in the other." I've always had trouble understanding the origin and the purpose of this word. Both women and men use this term but it's usually guys that I see getting worked up over it. Don't continue reading if you're one of those guys.

You're a guy and you befriended this beautiful girl. Let's say this girl's name is Lisa. You talk to Lisa every day, you guys hang out a lot, when she needs you're the first one she calls. You tell her she's smart, beautiful, not like other girls. You bought her lunch at her favorite restaurant yesterday. She tells you you're the greatest guy to ever be in her life. Finally, you admit to Lisa one day that you like her. You like like her. Lisa rejects you.

Now get this. Lisa is NOT obligated to want to be your girlfriend. You were nice to her, you bought her things, you treat her better than other guys. But the most important aspect of a relationship is attraction, be it physical or emotional. If Lisa is not attracted to you, she's just not attracted to you. She may be attracted to you as a friend but if she doesn't want to be with you romantically, she's not the devil. She did nothing wrong.

Another point that "friendzoned" guys bring up is the fact that they were such good friends to their female friend. These guys are what I call scumbags. If you become friends with a girl in the hopes of getting a reward in the future, you really aren't a good friend at all. If you excpect for the friendship to go to another level and are disappointed when it doesn't get to that point, reevaluate your position in that girl's life.

So next time you get "friendzoned" think long and hard about it. Did you get friendzoned or is it just the typical rejection that occurs in the lives of every human? I don't say I've been grade-zoned when my teacher denies me a good grade. You don't say job-zoned when your manager denies you a promotion. So why would your ego be so fragile and weak that you coin a term for being rejected in order to demonize a girl?

"Male entitlement -the idea that the man’s emotions are more valid than a woman’s and that because he was a good friend that she owes him sex for being so nice" - Anonymous

[Jimrat86]

First of all, this thread is CLEARLY coming from a place of bias against men. It mentions that both genders complain about the friendzone, but it only attacks men (hence the quote in the end). I can attest that men probably do experience the friendzone more often, because men simply approach more often. That is just the way the world works unfortunately.
But I think it's glossing over a lot of the reasons why males get mad about the FZ in the first place. A lot of girls will flirt with guys when they first meet, and end up getting a lot of things they want, or just having someone to vent to. This leads to some pretty mixed signals. For instance, I liked a girl when I was 14, and decided to pursue only because she was flirtatious with me and I was told by her friend that she liked me. It turned out that I was only a friend to her. Another time in high school, a girl literally sat on my lap, flirted with me and gave off signs that she was interested. Nope. I ended up not only alone and disappointed from these experiences, but I got slapped across the face in both scenarios! I think the reason why men hate the friendzone, is because a lot of women don't know what they want, which leads to people being unaware of where they stand with them. The author is only using the absolute dumbest guys out there as an example, and it really isn't fair to those of us who are actually intelligent, and whose gripes are actually legitimate and credible.

[sandyyy_]

This was way too long, I read the first 3 sentences and i'll answer the part about the bias. I made this article specifically about guys cause I usually only notice guys making a big deal out of it. Like I told a bunch of other guys trying to make the same point as you, image search "friendzone" on google and see which gender makes the most memes about the topic.

[Jimrat86]

Your post was much longer than mine.
If you fail to examine root causes of things and just take cheap shots, then I feel sorry for your inability to connect with the world around you.

[sandyyy_]

My post was put into paragraphs. And I fail to see how what I said was a cheap shot cause the way you wrote it makes it obviously look disorganized which makes me less interested to read. If you actually want me to comment on what you wrote about my post, you can bring up any point you wrote in that humongous paragraph.

[ElvenMr]

Oh come on, don't bother responding to a comment if you don't even read all of it, especially if you attack the commenter.

TLDR just for you: a lot woman gives "false" signs a lot of the times, in some cases just playing and when man asks them out, they simply reject them, even tho they gave these signs, so a man could easily think the women liked him.
That's not really good, when even if she is sitting in my lap, i can't be sure she likes me. (we could call this behaviour slutty, but let's not go there now)

[sandyyy_]

When did I attack anyone? I told him to separate and organize his ideas, I didn't say anything about hin personally. And you never know until you ask. Obviously if you see someone playing games with you/your feelings you ask them outright whether it's going somewhere instead of getting mad that she showed signs and led you on. Only you can allow yourself to be led on.

[ManuelMarquez]

Guys bring up the friendzone topic more because they approach more genius. Don't be lazy and read all this guy's post.

[KleinTeef]

Lol @take owner. You just can't be bothered to read something that hits the nail on the head.

[sandyyy_]

Okay I decided to read it. A 14 year old is not a woman, and I know that immature girls usually do stuff like that and I can't defend those actions because I know they can lead someone on but at the same time you were both young. And again, I picked the wrong title because the article described something that doesn't go for all guys so if it doesn't apply to you, don't kick up a storm

[Jimrat86]

The only thing you should take away from my point is that each individual's situation varies. To make a blanket statement pertaining to how guys don't get the hint, or make unwarranted pursuits to females (thereby casting an undertone of victimization) about all men complaining about friend zones may accurately portray the creepy guys/stalkers. However, it is not fair to the ones who have credibility in their grimes stemming from situations where girls gave off mixed hints and acted like immature children. Different age group reactions to these situations notwithstanding, just keep in mind that some guys don't act like total creeps. And I'm sure girls have committed the same crimes you speak of as being so heinous as well.

[Jimrat86]

gripes*

[Margo7]

My views on the friendzone are really complicated and confusing. Because, like, I don't have a problem with the general use of the term friendzone. I've heard guys say they were friendzoned, yes, but I've also heard girls say the same thing. I've used the term myself to describe previous romantic failures! I personally feel like it's a nicer way of saying someone got rejected (because rejection is upsetting, and the word itself feels so harsh), and can be used to describe a situation in which someone feels unrequited love for another person, and that person only thinks of them as a friend, but they stay friends regardless and not let the rejection ruin their platonic relationship.

However, I also don't like the corruption of the term to be used in the way you describe here: where men use the friendzone to demonize a woman for rejecting them. I agree with you wholeheartedly that men are not entitled to romance or sex from a female friend just because they want it, and I think it's kind of a dick thing to do to just be friends with a woman because the guy thinks he'll get in her pants as a "reward" for being a good friend.

So... yeah. My views on the friendzone are obviously very mixed.

[heavensgift2girls]

This has nothing to do with male entitlement. In most cases it is a failure of communication. To the male, he has made his feelings very clear for a long time while getting to know her better. When the girl doesn't pick up on the fact he likes her, he ends up feeling like she lead him on, while she feels he was being dishonest with her about their friendship the whole time.

Just read some of the responses and you will see what I mean. "She was leading me on" and "He was pretending to be my friend to get in my pants" are commonly what each gender says after this happens.

Remember men are being raised to believe that woman want to be friends first. Guys tend to take that literally. To the guy, he is simply following the dating protocol he has been taught, which is not compatible with reality. This has lead to a lot of confusion and bitterness as men pour not only their time, but also their hearts into what they thought was the beginnings of a relationship. Just as @kheserthorpe said, men need to be taught that friendship is not a step towards a relationship, no matter how many women have told them they want a guy that wants to be friends first.

Yes there are exceptions where a guy is selfish and feels entitled, just as there are exceptions where a woman knows the man likes her, and she uses him. Overall, it isn't some massive male thing, or a female thing. It is just one of the ways that men and women commonly misunderstand each other. Men and women are both to blame for this communication problem.

[RalphBlack]

The thing is that women think we understand them and we really don't. Men are first attracted to looks and women go by feelings at first.
My friend the other day got in a fight with her boyfriend and she told me about it.
She said that he wasn't responding to her texts and taking her seriously.
Then she told me that she said, "We need a break!"
I pretty much td her that she' should have finished her sentence because her saying, "we need a break" instead of saying, "We need to take a break from each other because we need to have a few days off to get that excitement back in our relationship again" it didn't sound like that when she was telling me about it and to her boyfriend it probably sounded how I heard it which sounds like she wants to break up.
Women don't finish there sentences and they expect us to understand them completely. We have to learn how to use our natural animal instinct.

[heavensgift2girls]

It's a good example of bad communication. The whole "we need a break" thing is very vague. Some people think it is okay to have sex with someone else while on a break. Other people just see it as a little time apart, but that they are still together. Her boyfriend may have just taken it as she wants to have sex with other men, but wants to keep the possibility of getting back together, just in case she can't find a better guy.

A "break" might last a day, a week, a year, or forever for all they know. Chances are neither of them are on the same page. Unfortunately both men and women often get stubborn and assume the other gender needs to change and understand them, instead of actually working on communication. It sounds like your friend has horrible communication skills.

[Frost_Byte]

What you are missing is the fact that almost all relationships start with friendship. A guy is not evil for having the intention of dating a girl from the start, but i also agree that he shouldn't complain if his attempt is unsuccessful. Its perfectly fine for a guy to pursue a relationship and get his way there through friendship, infact, this is the proper way to do it. But he shouldn't go about this with the attitude that this girl he is pursuing is obligated to reciprocate his romantic feelings towards her. Infact half of the time it is the guys fault for not revealing his intentions earlier in the friendship. The other half of the time it is the girls fault for not recognizing his feelings early enough; or even worse, recognize his feelings but use him to get nice things and attention- this is called leading him on. I agree that half of it is the guys fault for not being straightforward; but it is also partially the girls fault, and girls need to realize that if they are above average looking, it is literally impossible to have a genuine guy friend who has no romantic feelings towards you (unless he is gay). I mean come on, it should be obvious that he likes you, and you should stop leading him on- if you know he likes you, and you don't like him back, end the friendship and stop accepting gifts and attention from him. No straight guy on the face of the earth would be this nice and friendly to a girl unless he was in love with her, or if she just wasn't attractive. That's the way it is, and its time girls realized that and stopped leading guys on.

[sandyyy_]

And then when she thinks that every guy who is nice to her is after her she's arrogant/conceited. It doesn't work like that; you gotta make your intentions clear. And of course pretty girls get better treatment so out of all the nice people she encounters, she's supposed to read your mind and realize that you like her? And it's so immature to think that just because a girl is above average looking every straight guy is after her.

[Frost_Byte]

Its not immature to think that, that's just the way it is. And i didn't say that girls should do all the work. I do believe i recall saying that guys should reveal their intentions earlier in the relationship, and if they don't, girls should be prepared to see wether they like them or not. And basically girls should just assume that the guy likes her because if she is above average looking and the guy is straight and is friendly to her, its because he likes her. Its simple logic. If one party is above average looking, friendship is impossible. You just have to face it- that's the way it is.

[sandyyy_]

You lost me at "girls should just assume." No matter how nice a guy is to me, until he tells me he has feelings for me, I will treat him like a friend. And you say girls but you continually bring up above average looking girls, as if you gotta look a certain way for the friendzone thing to happen

[shadowelite102]

She will not stop the relationship if he gives her stuff, she loves attention and free stuff. The problem is the guy who keeps doing so without realizing that he is being used for his affection towards her and his wallet.

[Bluemax]

The overwhelming majority of men I know don't feel entitled to a woman's affection simply by being nice to her. I think it's generally a minority of men, albeit on the internet it seems to be a rather loud minority.

I'm going to address something you said in your comments to an anonymous poster. You said, "Do you not see how leaving someone because they don't wanna be your girlfriend would cause a girl to be mad? Like you're her friend for 5 years and because she rejected you, you suddenly stop being her friend and you expect her to not show any emotion? "

I could see how it would make a girl SAD, but not mad. I personally would never want someone I cared for as a friend to remain my friend if my very presence was a painful reminder. This in fact happened to me, and not a single atom of me was angry at the girl for ending the friendship. I think it's equally shitty for a girl to get angry at a guy terminating a friendship because he is hurt as it is for a guy to get angry at a girl for rejecting him. No one is entitled to friendship, either.

[sandyyy_]

Of course no one is entitled to friendship. But you're still rude for ending a friendship because someone doesn't have feelings for you. I've been rejected before and I'm still friends with the guy and he's even become my best friend now. You know why? Because there's plenty of fish in the sea and I invested my time in someone I liked even more. You can't go around ending friendships you were in for years just cause the person doesn't like you back and think it's a valid excuse. It just makes you look like a crybaby who leaves every time something doesn't go his way. Of course if the girl rejects you in a way that's completely inexcusable or otherwise does something bad to you, you leave that friendship. But just telling her you don't wanna be her friend if she's not gonna be with you? That's pathetic. But I don't think most girls would regret losing someone like that anyway

[Agrojag]

Now that I see the take owner is 16 the article makes more sense. It screams of immaturity and a lack of empathy. @Bluemax makes very good points and distinctions.

[sandyyy_]

In what ways do I lack empathy @Agrojag? I'm taking your comment as constructive criticism so please enlighten me

[Agrojag]

I doubt that but seeing it as rude for a guy to end a friendship after rejection is simplistic. Some do it out of spite, yes, but many others do it because it is too painful and they know the friendship couldn't work. But also your disdain for guy's belief in the friend zone contrasts greatly with the apparent entitlement you seem to believe women are to that friendship. It works both ways. Guys aren't entitled to a relationship and neither are girls to friendship. You are only looking from one angle and, frankly, it is a selfish and inconsiderate one.

[Bluemax]

@sandyyy_
Surely you must understand that prolonged contact tends to prolong the pain of rejection. If a person truly cares for a friend, why would he or she wish to prolong the pain by prolonging the contact? Are you aware that there is a host of evidence that different people feel the pain of rejection to different degrees? I remember hearing on NPR (I think it was Radiolab) about a study done which connected the pain people reported to brain anatomy and brain chemistry. There is evidence that some people are hardwired to feel the pain of rejection more than others. If that is the case (and I have long believed it to be), then why would you call that person "pathetic" when it may very well have something to do with his or her neuro-chemistry? There is a correlation between bullying and how keenly people feel rejection. Understand that the person may be ending the friendship because it is too painful to continue it...

[Bluemax]

... and that person might have a very different background from you. I think it's great that you remained friends with the guy who rejected you, but honestly so what? That's YOU. Who is to say that your reaction is, or should be, the norm?

I believe it is totally acceptable to end a friendship that is the source of pain or to shorten the length of time of the pain. I do not think it's acceptable to end a friendship because things didn't go your way. I think that insisting a person remain a person's friend on pain of arousing the anger of the rejector, being labeled a rude, pathetic crybaby (your words, not mine) is very selfish. It is no different than the rejected party labeling the rejector a cruel bitch for rejecting him or her.

[Bluemax]

By the way, I did have a friend of mine confess her feelings to me. When I rejected her, she wished me well and ended the friendship. I was sad to see her go. Very sad. However, I would have been more sad to have insisted that she remain my friend on pain of being labeled pathetic, rude, and a crybaby. Also, sandyyy_, honestly what good could have come from me calling her those things either to her face or on the internet?

By the way, I have reestablished contact with her via Facebook after more than twenty years. She isn't pathetic at all. She isn't rude. She isn't a crybaby. She is highly accomplished in her career. She seems to be a very good wife (she's been married longer than you've been alive, sandyyy_). She is a good mother.

[Bluemax]

@Agrojag
Perhaps the asker lacks life experience. I know I sure did at 16.

[KleinTeef]

I had to end the "friendship" I had with this girl. I had loved her for 3 years but it wasn't mutual. I decided to cut the ties and move on, does that make me a bad person? I didn't want a friendship from her, I wanted a relationship, and when I didn't get it I moved on. I think it's be worse if I ignored the fact she wasn't interested and carried on coercing her would've been a lot worse.

[Bluemax]

@KleinTeef
It probably would have been much better had you been up front about your feelings for her from the start. It certainly is more honest and might have resulted in fewer hurt feelings.

Are you a bad person? I generally reserve the term "bad person" for people who have done worse. Were you not honest with her? Yes, I think so. Could you have done better? Yes. Should you coerce someone (your choice of words and I'm' wondering if you're using it correctly)? Certainly not.

Do better next time.

[404filenotfound]

Also, sometimes opposites attract in terms of romance, but that doesn't always lead to friendship compatibility, especially when there are conflicting world views involved. It's like the endorphins wear off and you realize that they weren't a great person. I usually remain friends with people anyway, because to them 'friends' just means adding me on Facebook and liking my posts every now and then, they don't want any real friendship.

[R3d_Anonymous]

Yes, Amen to this opinion owner.

[KHaskins]

Another interesting take on it:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxSO4

Worth watching the whole thing if you have time.

I think the use of the word "entitlement" is inappropriate here. As this lady points out, when you feel "entitled" to something, you generally don't work your ass off to try to earn it - an entitled person thinks they deserve to get what they want for little to no effort, just for wanting it. Women are not obligated to return romantic feelings any more than men are, but let's keep things in perspective: Y likes X, X doesn't feel the same way. That doesn't automatically turn Y into a monster or a creep for wanting X's affection in the first place.

That said, I know guys who have made promises to do things for a woman they fancied, learned that she didn't feel the same way, and completely cut her off. in my opinion if you promise to do something for someone, you do it.

[been_waiting]

I think the word "entitlement" does fit here.
Because they think actions that are irrelevant should grant them romance or sex.
Its like saying you're a good car mechanic so you should get into Harvard with a full ride.

[KHaskins]

If someone felt "entitled" to it, they would think no actions on their part were necessary at all. Exhibit A: Rodger Elliot.

[sandyyy_]

I'll watch later but you definitely broadened the possible definitions of the word entitled. Like I described, there are guys that go into a friendship with false kindness because they believe they have the right to a reward later on. That's entitlement.

[been_waiting]

The definition of entitlement doesn't specify that absolutely no action has to be made.

[been_waiting]

But still, its a technicality.
Most words aren't used 100% correctly.
I think entitlement is the best word for it.

[KHaskins]

May I ask how you would define "relevant" actions in your first post?

[sanfranman]

Interesting points. I think it bears discussion to address how quickly sexual attraction sets in for people. I think that for many people it is instantaneous and based on how the other person looks (beautifully) or behaves (smoothly). So that being the case, what's a person to do within the first minute of conversation? Reveal the interest or not?

Most (like 99%) will not, and for a lot of good reasons, this is a good thing. They will be polite and do nice things for the other person. However, in this moment the 'friend zone' is thus born.

If, on the other hand, sexual interest did not set in for a long time, this 'deception' would not happen. People would do nice things for people they want (but don't know well enough to have a legitimate claim to soulmatedness) with the same sincerity as for the rest. Unfortunately, nobody can control the time when sexual interest sets in. It's usually immediate, but moreso for men than for women.

So, what's better - a world where everyone tells people immediately that they want to hump them, or the one we live in where people are not honest to each other? Those are the only two options as far as I can tell.

[sandyyy_]

That's not the point. You said the friendzone is born when people are nice to each other after just becoming friends instead of just saying they wanna hump them. That's called "talking" to someone to see what they're like before asking them out.. The "friendzone" is being rejected after being friends for some time. Obviously physical attraction isn't the only thing needed for a relationship. So the fact that you said instead of telling someone the day that they meet that they wanna have sex, that's flawed because most normal people don't start a relationship on fhe basis of instant physical attraction.

[shadowelite102]

The problems are weak guys who believe that the girl they like is 'the one', and the girls that are liked keep it going to gain status, objects, and attention. When a guy likes a girl, it is obvious, maybe not to a girl who always gets everything she wants, but to normal, non-selfcentered girls it is and also to other guys. A guy who likes a girl will give her attention, affection, and will behave 'happier' when she is around (I don't know how this can be overlooked unless she just doesn't care, which means that the relationship is one sided and he should cut it out or say something).

Friendzone is created by weak guys who can't stand up for themselves and think that a woman has to automatically love them. When a guy gives a girl his time, money, and effort and she does not reciprocate, then he is wasting all those things on something that will never be.

Another problem is this- males are raised to believe that they have all the control in modern society when it comes to relationships with females, which is wrong. Now that women have so much opportunity, they choose what guy they want to be with instead of family or society choosing for them, and guys get butthurt when the relationship goes sour. How it is now-women choose, men lose. Guys foolishly believe that women are still the princess that they need to rescue instead of an equal in terms of social standing.

Guys fall into the friendzone because they EXPECT a girl to be submissive and automatically love them back, and for the girl to love them MORE than they love her. Foolish. Guys, you made up the friendzone, but it was based on an ancient set of rules that have only recently been done away with, and I'm still not sure if that's a good thing.

Girls are confused because they have a higher social standing and are more independent, guys are confused because the rules that have been used FOREVER no longer apply.

[sandyyy_]

Wow, hats off to you. You really put it into words well.

[drkch20]

Honestly I agree that people should be willing to move on from situations like this. But you should also realize that there are certain behaviors that naturally build intimacy between 2 people especially people of the opposite sex. It's natural. In my life I've pretty much never been in a relationship. Granted I've taken the time to learn what it takes to care about others. I still have a lot to learn. Any misunderstanding like this lies simply on the shoulders of the person who doesn't reciprocate simply because I've like a lot of girls and I've had plenty of girls like me. Only problem is the feelings were never returned. I know how I act when I like a girl and I also know how a girl acts when she likes me. She compliments me tells me I'm the best and blushes when I look at her nothing ever came of it because I never allowed the friendship to grow quickly. I kept my distance I treated her like a friend and never did anything different from other friends. I guess what I'm saying is that we all know how people act when they like you even if they obviously don't want anything because they're in a happy relationship. Attraction is attraction period so if you can tell some one likes you but you know you would never reciprocate don't go spending all your time with them and calling them every time you need help unless you know without a doubt that that's all there is to it. I've liked friends who liked me but that's all there was was to it. I liked them more because of it and they liked me more but we were fine the way it was. Because we were all great friends

[godfatherfan]

The issue you have is the same as most women. You seem to think men view women as friends. No straight man has looked at a woman and thought "wow, she would make a great friend.." (yes, I understand there are always exceptions to every rule. so lets say 99.999999999% of straight men). Men are sexually driven at our core. So if he approached her as a "friend" then there was a reason. Maybe he thought it the best approach for her instead of just asking her out immediately. Maybe he thought she was already seeing someone. Maybe he was seeing someone and wanted options later down the road.
So what we will do it stay on a woman's radar by being "friends". Then one day we both are single and boom... we are making out...
.
So when she won't budge and he is bitching about it, it is usually frustration that he cannot change her mind... at least not yet.
So the issue is how to get her to change her mind about not wanting to date him. It is no different then asking someone out and getting rejected. The issue is you have put much more effort into it and she should obviously see how charming a guy he is and want to be with him. lol...

[circlebill]

It really is amazing that ANY female could be so dense as to think a grown man approached her for ONLY friendship! Men don't seek out women for just friendship! If you had an under-age daughter who brought home a 30 year old man and said "he's just a friend", you'd call the police! FRIEND MY ASS!!! 30 year old men don't want to be a female's Goddam FRIEND! If a female wants a "friend", she should choose another female, a gay man or possibly a married man. The rule of thumb is real simple!

NO MAN WANTS TO BE A FEMALE'S GODDAM FRIEND!

[ras144]

"NO MAN WANTS TO BE A FEMALE'S GODDAM FRIEND!"
That's weird because I have four guy friends and only one had a crush on me. You do know a lot of men don't just see women as glittered-up sex objects, right?

[godfatherfan]

LOL... so basically the other guys puss'd out and didn't confess they want to fuck you. That doesn't mean they cannot be very friendly toward you. It just means that if your both single, and you offer sex, they will take you up on it (assuming he is straight). Sorry, it is just a fact. men have no need to be friends with women they are not in a relationship with. Just as women should not be friends with men if they are in a relationship. I am talking friends in the truest sense of the word. Most women confuse friends with being friendly.

[TrackisLife]

I think you have the wrong idea of the "friendzone." Even girls have admitted they used and that it exists. See, the friendzone it's more complex than your realize. Yes, there is rejection, but rejection is different then the friend zone. Rejection is just plain out and simple: "I don't want a relationship like that with you, I rather be friends." That is not being put in the friendzone, that is just being rejected. The friendzone is either intentional or unintentional by a girl. This usually occurs when the guy fails to admit his feelings for the girl and then she either friendzones him accidentally or on purpose. Now this is where it breaks down. When a girl purposely places you in the friendzone, she may be doing so for an advantage. She may be keeping you around as a Plan B, but is disguising it as the "friendzone." I saw a tweet where a girl said: "The guy I friendzoned almost got a girlfriend today, so I told him I liked him. I don't, but I want to keep him around as a backup." That is an example of a girl using it to her advantage. Now friendzoning occurs accidentally most often by word choices used by females. The girl may or may not mean what she says, but her word choices can cause friendzoning. Unless a girl typically calls guys her "bros" then most guys will take that as being in the friendzone. Girls may use these words to purposely or accidentally place a guy in the friend zone, but it is all about their word choice. A guy doesn't want to be called best friend because it seems like he is being friendzoned. I just said all this to let you know the friendzone is real, but that part doesn't matter because a guy can either accept his role or try to escape the friendzone to either pursue OR move on.

[Anonymous]

Yeah but its not always "male entitlement". They're many situations that can occur. I honestly like the word "friendzone " either but the concept does happen. For example:
1. Girl sends mixed signals. Guy feels like his emotions were played with. Or worst she did it intentionally for her own amusement and she's really a man hater.

2. Two people are actually mutually attracted to each other. But decide to be friends first or "take it slow" due to outside circumstances... they never go any farther than "just friends". Personally I think its a good idea to take it slow but some people can't handle that.

3. Some guys feel women tend to "friendzone" guys cause they're nice to them and not douchebags that "get the girl". Nice guy finishes last philosophy.

4. Some guys feel that girls like guys to compete against each other for her and some do... and the guys that make 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place get "friend zoned"

So, you see there are some girls out there that treat this whole dating thing as a game which men have to end up playing. Where women have multiple guys wrapped around their fingers. And it just leaves some men bitter. For those who aren't actually playing these games... its not male entitlement... its the assumption that they were played and the assumption of female entitlement. At the end of the day, its all misunderstandings and that's why communication is key. Don't just reject a guy... talk about it. You hurt the persons feelings and when peoples feelings are hurt , they assume the worst and become bitter. So its better to communicate and talk about it. Guys have feelings too.

[sandyyy_]

Well if you tell someone outright "I have feelings for you" and they dont return those feelings and you allow yourself to get played, that's on you. That's all it comes down to. There's no excuse for that petty bitterness.

[Opinion Owner]

But its not always that cut and dry or black and white. Women will say something like they really like you and then act in a friends only way or vice versa act in a seductive or romantic type way and then denies having feelings or says they don't want a relationship. Men end up feeling played. Yes many cases the bitterness is unwarranted. But too many women get the ideology that because I'm a woman I can do whatever I want even if it means hurting someone's feelings and they're not allowed to be mad. No free passes. But I agree 50/50.

[sandyyy_]

Everything you said can be solved by reading my original response so I don't know what you're trying to say. She says she likes you but acts like a friend... okay? You know she likes you so try to make her comfortable enough to act like more than a friend. She says she doesn't like you but is flirty... maybe that's her personality. If you don't like her personality, don't be friends with her.

[Opinion Owner]

I read your original response. Well its not always on you if someone plays you. If someone is playing you and you know it... sure thats more on that person. But I've been played and didn't know it. A lot of people are dishonest and good liars. Unfortunately there are some woman that are like that. I don't agree completely with the Friendzone thing. But attempting to date women for me has been nothing but opening my heart to someone just to have my feelings played with. Not just flat out rejected but played with first, led on, then rejected. If I was just flat out rejected I wouldn't be bitter cause that person just didn't like me. But when its intentionally playing with someone's feelings thinking they can get away with it cause theyre a girl and laugh about it with their friends that's what leaves a guy bitter. It right to play people and women don't get a free pass to do so cause they're women. Just in the same way it ain't right for a guy to play a girl.

[sandyyy_]

Your situation is not at all what I described. I was pretty descriptive in the article on purpose so if your situation is totally different, it doesn't apply. It sucks that that happened to you, though, and hopefully you learned from it.

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah true but every situation is unique... you can't really put this into categories. I'm in my mid 20s and dating for me has been a disaster since my late teens. Every girl I meet ends up screwing me over. I might slightly bitter from it all but just towards the women that pull this crap but I still love women. I'm not a pushover but I'm nieve. I don't realize I'm being played until its too late. Otherwise if I knew I'm a strong enough person id stand up to it. But, back to the friend zone thing. It does apply because multiple girls have gotten involved with me and the flirting actually has gone farther than just flirting, romantic stuff. Then its ohh I just wanna be platonic friends. Then its like what was that all about? The guy gets hung out to dry and the girl thinks its perfectly fine to do that and shouldn't even apologize or explain herself. On the other hand a guy does that, not that its right... he's the devil. So, there's female entitlement too and that ain't right.

[Opinion Owner]

Point is also nowadays men feel a hostility from women that's not always been there. Some of it is well directed because there's men out there that are total scum to women. But hate those men lol, not all men.

[Splithead]

Well here's what I have to say. If you're a nice guy who has been told all your life not to be a sore winner or loser, not to tell women what to do, not to be confusing but to be honest about your emotions, not to tell women what to do (which we can not easily distinguish from simply taking the lead in the positive way)... and you buy into it, where does that leave you. Say that all this emotional vulnerability happens to actually make you feel... well vulnerable? What if you then want to, after doing such a hard thing as letting your guard down, hear from someone that that's all alright... as you were told it would be. I don't think you can give preemptive sensitivity training to men assuming that we all shift naturally toward dominant and asshole and that we will be pulled back from that side. I think we take whatever we're taught and run with it full speed. You can start out thinking your the shit and have full confidence or you can start out thinking everyone's opinion is equal and subsequently devalue your own leading to a need to do whats right, as judged by the largest ammount of people aka low self confidence. What women actually want are one of two guys

1) The Ugly duckling, who started off a wimp or loser and made himself confident.

2) The reformed asshole, who started off an asshole but had a change of heart.

These are the guys who have the most success but its kind of sad because both ways... it's a really really stressful transition that a lot of guys can't make fully and leaves them with tons of issues. I don't think women really like guys any one way. You like us both, which impossible for us to start out as. You kind of demand that we go crazy at one point in our lives if we want to be successful with women.

[dwaunm]

Not every guy is like that, though. Some of us, maybe me. Is just looking to be your friend and if by the time, you are open to being more, then we will take it from there. What most women do is what Hitch was trying to tell you, in the movie, they make up, all sorts of stuff for not being ready to be in a relationship, they are focused on their career, 90% percent of communication is non verbal, which means, what you are saying is not coming out of your mouth. One thing, for sure is that you got to get out of your own way, I'm never looking for sex, when giving you a shoulder to cry on, but let's be honest and that is what I'm doing is being honest, I'm a guy, so when you are not in a relationship and you are tossing up hints for me to make a move on you, say like simple touches on the left or right leg or putting your feet up to mine, what do you think I will do, take advantage of it. The reason why most men believe in the Friendship Zone is because we don't want to be rejected every time, we try to get the time of day with you, if it annoys you, then stop throwing up hints and then crushing our pride, you put up wall, that shouldn't be there and then want communication, you cannot have it both ways! Pick your battles on this one and move on.

[KingAlex]

This is kind of complex, Cause ones you are together you are kind of like friends but more. So why is the friendzone bad? Its super great ones you start showing your value, and understand that sometimes you need to use a little emotional manipulation to get what you want, Even a child can do it to get candy.

So i would actually put my self in the friendzone to get to know her better and see what kind of girl she really is. But most guys are too needy and clingy and put them selfs in the "Friendzone" and they get emotional loyal and in love with the girl and lose all of their Zest.

Be wise, Not saying you should manipulate, of course be honest, But mating game is not about spilling your feelings like a overfull glass of sweet lemonade, Its about fun and excitement, its about taking the lead and knowing where you want to be and create the fun and sexy vibe you want..

You can learn this, and most importantly, She will make you do it by the attraction and energy you feel. Just try and keep the distance sometimes. Or many times, even for long term you need to know how to create excitement and make her feels safe also...

Best of luck, And love the friendzone if you can get there, man its a goldmine, Also if she dates others you learn to deal with jealousy. lol

[TheLoverNotHater]

I take interest that it's a sixteen year old girl putting this up. While I'm all for today's youth putting up their honest opinions, I do appreciate if they have experience in the area, and they're open to other's responses. Looking over the comments, I see you're pretty damn adamant that you're right, and leave little room for opposition. So here's my comment. I am a firm believer in the friendzone. Now it doesn't start with attraction for me. More likely because I like the girl's ideals or how she goes about life. But over time, if being her friend hasn't tired me out (trust me, some girls really take a lot of effort to be a friend of), I might find myself falling for them. If she matches the criteria I like in a girl, I might even ask her out. Now imagine being rejected by someone you actually respect. Someone you can look up to and fell for because she inspires you to be someone better. That hurts. It really does. Now for you girls it might be different, and I probably have this different than some guys, but it's something that tears you down. Lemme share a personal experience. Let's call the girl Sam.
Sam is an older woman who I had respected wholeheartedly. She has two kids, and works multiple jobs to provide for her. Now I was her friend. I helped her when she needed it, and did what I could to ease her burden if she asked. Whenever I brought food and she hadn't eaten all day, I'd give her a portion. After a year, I fell for her. She's confident, capable, and has a voice. Now imagine the hurt I had when she admitted to my face that she had no respect for me, or even that I tried to help her. I was, effectively, friendzoned. It really hurts, youngling.

[sandyyy_]

"youngling" lmaooo you're 18, calm down. And your situation is different; she said she had no respect for you. That's not the same as her not being interested in you. Just cause she took it a step further doesn't mean that all girls who reject certain guys have no respect for them.

[genericname85]

i think you missunderstand the friendzone. it´s not like you become friends first to maybe fuck her later...

you just are genuinely friends with a her not like buying shit for her or complimenting her all the time, since you are a friend and friends don´t do that.

despite that it could appen that after some time (even years) it hits you... you catch feelings for her. it´s not like you planned or wanted that in the first place.

maybe you finally confess that to her some day and the ultimate MCA happens. she doesn´t like you "this way" you first think wow shit well maybe we can still be friends because i liked to be friends with her.

it doesn´t work out though you get sad everytime you spend time with her from then on and you get mad with your self and ask why that happened and why she doesn´t like you, which often leads to reflecting this anger back on her. i know it´s irrational and of course not her fault at all.

it´s not as easy as you think. also it´s the same for girls in the friend zone ( i personally know girls who have been there too)

[sandyyy_]

That's a valid point but I'm aware of that. I meant for guys that aren't mad at themselves but mad at the girl! I don't like to hear the term period but I wrote this to talk specifically about the bitter guys who feel that after all those years, she should have developed feelings too. And I am aware that it happens to girls of course, but image search friendzone on google and what do you see? Memes made by guys about guys being friendzoned. It just doesn't seem to be so rampant among girls to demonize men after being rejected.

[genericname85]

ok i have some different theories that might serve as explainations:

1 so most guys won´t be like "i don´t like you this way" they will go forth and have sex with her as long as a "better" girl comes around. then they dump the other girl, which will result in her raging about what a prick he was and that she was used. there are a lot of examples for this online.

2 girls don´t ask out, they hope he will do the first step and since he won´t if he isn´t interested it just doesn´t happen.

3 girls will move on faster and find another guy which might be shitty but still better than being alone... result: see theory 1

[genericname85]

i am aware that guys are out there who believe that being kind and shit automatically will get them in the girls pants... forget those douches!

[sandyyy_]

What are your theories explanations to?

[genericname85]

why girls don´t complain so much about being friendzoned

[Anonymous]

I agree with most of what you've said. I think a lot of the issue here with guys that feel a sense of entitlement in this friendzone situation is because they've been raised with this accomplishment style of thinking. They think if they put in effort they'll get returns which works in say high school on tests. They get fed lies of nights in shining armor sacrificing things to save the girl. They are pretty much real life links and Mario's. They keep going through all these "challenges" only to be told the princess is greatful but not interested. Movies like a fault in our stars just reinforce this thought pattern. What hurts these guys in these situations is that girls are often aware of all this but don't end it. They accept the gifts and the boyfriend like actions and these guys believe they're making progress. So when she finally rejects him he feels like he's been lied too. And usually blames the girl. You fast forward a few years and these guys realize there's no point in putting in all the effort and boom you've got your average dick that girl's actually may want now but puts in zero effort and hurts slews of girls for no reason. Then these same guys either end up marrying one of these girls and have a shitty marriage followed by divorce or they learn to simply be themselves and meet girls who genuinely want all of them. Girls experience the exact same problem. Check out any girl who's ever had sex with that really hot guy that really doesn't care about her. She'll scream he used me and he's a player. It's the same concept. The world's convinced a lot of women that all they have to do is look cute or be great in bed or be a great housewife and boom they'll have a great husband and happy family. The reality of both situations is most people have no clue what they really want and the success of relationships are pretty much out of our control.

[serg11]

This is pretty accurate. Honestly, I have been in those scenarios. I think it is frustrating, but all I will simply do is stop talking to the girl. No point in whining, won't change a thing. Another thing that's obnoxious to add to your point about the girl complaining about being used, however what did you really expect? They will go out with guys who are notorious players expecting to "change them" and have a relationship. Obviously this is the equivalent to betting your paycheck on the Jacksonville Jaguars beating the Seattle Seahawks, sure there is the small chance you hit jackpot, but odds are you will end up disappointing with no money to pay your bills. Honestly, many people (guys too) have gotten less picky, they will pick any person off the street as long as they look hot.

[RationalMale]

For one, this angers a lot of women because it implies a control over their sexuality--they should date guys who make good friends, guys who are kind and nice, etc. Even though women have no problem turning around and using the most horrid language possible for men who, say, won't date feminists, or women with man haircuts, or fat women, or single moms. Women don't want *any* attempt to even tell them who they should date, but they will readily use the most foul language possible against men who hold standards unfavorable to said women.

For two, the problem a lot of these poor saps who get friendzoned have is--they don't know how to be sexual. They bought into the bullshit of "don't look at women as sexual objects, don't hit on women lest they feel uncomfortable," etc. So they don't know how to flirt and be sexual. They don't know--treat a girl like a friend, and odds are you will never be more. So don't be friends with attractive girls.

For three, yes, the friendzone exists. I don't expect you to understand this, Poster, because you're a woman and hence can't understand the life of men. Ergo, some things you will understand, and some things you will not. But it's real. I was in it briefly myself in my young, dumb, respectful of women days. I was swooning for said girl. She made very obvious that she found me very attractive, but I messed up in the flirting... I didn't know how. So she didn't feel that sexual urge, but very much enjoyed my company and liked being around me, but only as friends. Ergo, friendzone.

[RationalMale]

as stated, no problem using foul language. you simply cpan't stand opposition, or bother make a real counter argument. flagged

[Anonymous]

NO, NO, NO.. being frienzoned means when a guy is still an idiot, so when he likes a girl he'll make friends with her and try to show his nicest good guy thing because he is interested. The girl never noticed this because she is way too busy worrying about the jerk who told her the dress she was wearing on some night didn't look very good on her. So at some point she makes it clear he is the best guy in the universe.. to be friends with while wanting to have sex with that other bossy careless dude.

If a guy is paying attention he'll notice this and turn into the jerk but distracted dudes never really get it and get stuck in the friendzone for years. It sounds stupid but it not something made up and has nothing to do about you other than the fact the you will say in the future "all I want is a nice guy who treats me right" while you already rejected all of those guys.

If the friendzoned guy is fat or really bad looking then ok he needs to watch out for his style but I did had several "attractive" and normal looking friends in high school who still got friendzoned just for being nice. They all learned women are masochists thankfully.

[sandyyy_]

That's great, im happy for you and your little buddies.

[Cyberguy57]

little buddies, eh? I love how anyone with an opinion the asker doesn't like get's belittled. Anon here is more or less spot on.

[sandyyy_]

Are they not his little buddies? His little buddies learned that women are masochists and i'm happy for them and the realization they came to at their sausage fest.

[Opinion Owner]

women are indeed masochists in a way, don´t most girls chase after that bad guy? you seem angry at my comment for no reason and probably is because is the truth. and sausage fest? really? you seem just like a real man hater

[sandyyy_]

That's what anger looks like to you? You specifically said you all realized women are masochists, so would it be unfair of me to say you guys just hang out and talk about how terrible women are, i. e, a sausage fest? And I'm not a man hater, I have plenty of proof thank you very much.

[Opinion Owner]

I never said I reunite with my friends to talk bad about women. What I said clearly is that women are masochists (still stand by my opinion) because generally are completely oblivious of the good guys no matter how good looking they are and chase after the assholes. Luckily, I can see that most of my friends are sort of players now, and you know what? They seem to be ridiculously succesful now. Which proves my point of being in the friendzone. I dont have to even sit with them and discuss women to know that. Go ahead, keep doing your thing. It's typical how women reject the genuinely good guys and get stuck with jerks. Just wait til your order you ll see.

[Anonymous]

You have a point, and I suppose there are guys out there like the ones you describe.

But as hard as it is for me to accept that, it might also be equally hard for you to accept that there are girls out there who manipulate such relationships in very cruel ways. They abuse the friendship because they know the guy has feelings for them. They string the guy along, turning him down but always leaving him with the hope that things will change in the future.

"if she doesn't want to be with you romantically, she's not the devil. She did nothing wrong." -- Agreed. But like I said, there are other sorts of girls out there.

There's a great article about it in the Onion, I'll link to. It definitely explains these sorts of girls better than I can. Especially the part about, when the guy begins to move on and focus on a girl who can actually want him as a partner, THEN she gets all flirty and starts putting the moves on, making it impossible for the new girl to feel that there is nothing between you two. And then when new girl leaves.. the guy gets thrown back to square one.

Read it - you'll see, there's more than one way to look at the friendzone.

www.theonion.com/.../

[Cocoabutt]

My problem with these latest definitions or at least further explanations that are given to the term is that beside them being arbitrary toward an arbitrary terminology but that it presumes the mindset and intention of the one "zoned".
Whenever I have heard or seen this term used, it never painted an image of feeling that anyone was obligated.

I believe that take is a recent one. Often when the term friend zone is used it is in more of a term to describe that bad luck. 10 years ago it was called "just not that in to you" and before that "I don't like you that way".
My only complaint with the term friendzone is that is makes friendship seem negative. And while it may suck that they don't want anything more, being their friend wasn't worthless.
If you do lose a friendship because they resent your attempt to carry it further, then they weren't honest to begin with and you dodged a bullet.
So no, "friendzone" is not the forceful rape culture mansplainy male privilege code word that Jezebel and xojane commenters have propped it up to be. It's simply a bum deal for someone.
The whole "she is obligated to love me!" Is a whole different and creepy, dangerous thing on its own and actually lumping it among the casual term "friendzone" seems to cheapen the real risk and danger women who are living in fear go through with stalkers and attackers

[Tormentarian]

Went in too deep here mate - keep it on the surface, we are not looking for obligation explanations - but fighting off manipulation by the other sex