Just like racism, it takes a long time for things like this to dissolve. But it's apparent when looking at modern society (strictly in the western world, as you mentioned) that both racism and sexism are slowly being phased out. But the traces of both will not disappear until long after our lives are over, if at all.
However, from my observations (I have no evidence to back this up) it seems that society is evolving towards the increased oppression of men. Many so called 'feminists' lobby for rights that prefer female over male. I prefer to call people who support sexual equality 'equalists' instead of 'feminists'.
It seems that due to the increased social status (the ever decreasing pay gap, for example, even though it's an extremely biased statistic) of women that some men feel emasculated, for reasons beyond my understanding. This causes them to act out in rape, sexual harassment or just simple 'douchebaginess', for lack of a better term. This can also be caused by the seemingly infinite number of songs, television programs, movies and books that practically promise men a beautiful woman as a prize. But of course, none of this excuses their actions.
There are more men who oppress women than vice versa, or so it seems, as women who do oppress are more subtle than their male counterparts. I want to stress that I'm not saying all, or even most women do this, because it's a rare but spreading act.
There was never a need for feminism, only for equality.
Again, this is all speculation on my part and based only on my experiences and observations, I haven't competed any research on the subject. Take this with a grain of salt.
I am a very open minded person who respects a variety of opinions, I have also had a more closed upbringing than some other people. My first argument is that men and women will never be equal, we just can't, we can get very close but 100% equality doesn't seem feasible. I work in a very male dominated world. At university the female:male ratio was 4:7. However fortunately I have never been what I would consider oppressed by men and I live in England which I would like to think is pretty similar to American in regards to the western side of equality. Sure I've come across sexist men, My physics teacher in high school once asked the class to make a motor he said "Boys, build be a motor, Girls you can try". That really stuck in my mind. I know girls who have been oppressed, a friend of mine who works for British Airways was told to lose weight another friend who is a trainee civil engineer was told because she was female she would never have a chance in the field. Now this is hardly motivating. I have been to many places in the world, and I can tell you what women face in other countries is nothing compared to what the western woman faces. I feel very lucky to live in a society where I am not oppressed by men.
I wouldn't say oppressed but I think there are some issues. For example did you know that equal right between men and women are not in the constitution? I think they should be
And then there is the media and society, where I think we've actually made steps backwards in the last 30 or 40 years. Women in the media especially advertising are highly sexualised. A lot of them show only certain body parts women not even their whole body, let alone them as a whole person. That's what little girls and boys grow up to. Girls way too often think they're worth is equal to their attractiveness and that sex is the only to get boys to like you. And well boys will ultimately see girls less as people and more as what they see in the media and create a lot of other problems like thinking it's ok to rape. It's a long way granted, but it goes in that direction. I think it's the same problem we've always had with genders just a different way to deal with it. Men want sex, that's a pretty accepted fact throughout most cultures. And in the 1960s people would tell young girls men want sex, stay the hell away from them and today they tell young girls men want sex, so be what they want. Both has issues, they're just different issues
I'm pretty sure oppression still exists in a few area's in American Culture. However, I personally don't see it happening that often. There are cases as to where I hear guys talking "smack" behind their woman's back, but never really act upon it. There are a lot of double standards out there, but that goes both ways as well, and I don't always see that as being classified as oppression. With being in the Tech world/programming. I don't see a lot of women at my work place, but the 4 women that are in my office. Are all treated fairly, and often times better than the men. No guy hits on them continuously without a probably cause, no one makes any unprofessional jokes at their expense, and most of all. No one has ever made any physical contact with any of them in a negative way. For myself, I grew up being raised by my mother (father wasn't around much), and I've always respected women to the fullest. Of course we all say dumb things in fights, but I've never put a woman in a position. To where she feels like she's being oppressed, because she's a woman.
I think woman can't be rapers cause most of dem get satisfied and the ones who don't get cock are depressive or in therapy. 2nd. Women can't be rapers cause they have less force than men to pull em into a car etc. Women who walk at 3am outside with party clothes will get attention from some psycho raper or pedophiles while men have to check for serial killers and other stuff. I would think of a real ugly woman that could be a rapist too but that sounds strange. No men has to be like those horny beings (I'm horny too) and I even respect all NOs from women. The people that do this are as dangerous as killers cause their mind is on the same level. The hardest deal with rapist can be on your own family as I heard some turkish family daughter got raped by her grandpa wtf. I don't see all men as bad but retarded people will exist everywhere but in a world where man had as many chances as women to get raped I would consider men still as less dangerously cause women that is crazy can fuck you even more up
"a world where man had as many chances as women to get raped" I seriously doubt that affirmation. There just are less would be rapists interested in men. "women that is crazy can fuck you even more up" Only if the guy helps her to let it happen.
So you don't think men are crazy maniac sex beasts? MARRY ME. You're the sanest most intelligent woman I've ever seen! :') Thanks you for not being like the idiotic millions of feminist women who think that all men are rapists. That's like saying all women are sluts. It's just not true! Yet people support them. Only idiots support feminists, the smart ones (like you) support equality. And if someone says "Women get it tougher" I'll say "go fuck yourself" because who's the one that's expected to die on the front lines? Who's the one who pulls out the chair, opens the door, pays the bills, and is expected to treat their partners like princesses? Who's the one who gets treated like rapists everywhere they go? You see what I mean, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction (or something like that) Women don't want to treat every man like they're a rapist, and men don't want to be treated like they're rapists!
Female oppression is rare, but does exist. BUT MALE OPPRESSION EXISTS JUST AS MUCH. Yet feminists treat it like only females get oppressed and all men are the oppressors. The saddest part is many MAAAAANY men support them... Thank God there are some women, like you, who still think clearly
You dont have to understand or acknowledge oppression to be oppressed. Often you have some sense of it if you are aware, but if you lack certain experiences or exist in a certain position of privilege in other ways, its easy to not understand how people with similar identities are oppressed for those identities. For example, a wealthy black person who has never consciously understood racism or experienced aggressive, blatant racism may feel that black people are no longer oppressed or discriminated against as a group. That doesn't at all mean that he or she is correct. In fact, there's plenty of real life and academic research/evidence, politics, etc. to prove them to be incorrect. Subjective experience vs objective realities. "It doesn't happen in my own little every day life" (or rather, you dont acknowledge it or perceive it in your everyday life) is not the same thing as "It doesn't happen anymore."
I definitely think women are still being oppressed. While I understand ignorance and lack of awareness, its still hard for me sometimes to process people who genuinely think sexism was successfully wiped out in a matter of decades. It would be one of the most ambitious and fast evolutions in human history, thats for sure. Must be nice.
I'm a feminist, and of course, I definitely still see sexism alive and well, which fuels that oppression.
If women are still being oppressed all over the world, why would you ask whether or not feminism is necessary in america? I never understand that. Are Americans some super species now that just isn't at all prone to the common human being's sexist and prejudiced ideas and treatment of people? Yeah, okay. We're so much farther along and better than every one else. *eyeroll*
treatment of women is worse in some places than others, absolutely. But I just dont know where this idea of "America: the post-everything utopia! We're so awesome, you guys." came from. Like, when did that happen?
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God yes. Society still views women as inferior. You don't need to do much research to find out just how biased the US justice system is in favour or rapists. Judges and on occasion politicians publicly say extremely bigoted things about rape and women in the US. I don't know, but I can imagine that the reason you don't feel you have ever been harassed is because it's normalized so that you hardly think anything of it. I spent a long time thinking that in the modern era the sexes were equal, but I've come to realise that's because I'm out of touch with how a woman has to be constantly vigilant when she goes out or how truly women can't rely on the police or the justice system to protect them. There was a case not so long ago where basically a policeman grabbed the breast of a passerby during an occupy protest (this woman was an activist but was not protesting at the time). She flinched, as of course you would do, and her arm hit the police officer. She was then beat by the police and knocked out. There were bruises on her body including on her breast. She's currently serving seven years for assault of a police officer. No matter how you construe the facts of the case, she did not intentionally assault a police officer. But she's in jail for doing just that. There was another case where a man drugged and raped his wife routinely over three years. Judge Kurt Eisgruber didn't give the man, who confessed on video, a day in jail and told the woman to forgive him. You can find several other similar cases. Some men get so angry however at feminism (equal rights for women is by nature equal rights for men) because they identify so much with masculinity and their gender role that they can't handle the guilt of it being responsible for harm, and simply because they can't acknowledge others' problems without involving themselves. No one's saying all men are rapists or misogynists: Men also face problems from women being viewed as inferior. But there's still a need for feminism
The muslim countries, the muslim religion and India really needs to figure out how to treat other people as people, and not according to sex, race, class, etc.
It depends on the male person who acts against the female, but there are a few who still think that females cannot be proper CEOs because they're females, or that they can't drive, that they should clean the house, that they're to be valued based on their boobs and asses and legs, etc.
So it still happens. Not as prevalent, but it's still a thing. An example of its recording is the Everyday Sexism project: https://twitter.com/EverydaySexism
I don't know, I think there's a lot of propaganda here in the west on how women in the middle-east are struggling compared to men. According to this poll women in the middle-east and north Africa are the most likely to rate their lives better than men do:
Some people also grow to care about their kidnappers, it's called the Stockholm-syndrome. After a certain amount of time being continuously oppressed by everyone and told that it's the right thing to expect, you eventually grow to accept it. Just look at how muslims strictly define the lives of females, from not talking to guys unless it's for future procreation, to apparently not doing art because it's "trying to act like God". Seriously? Citation here at www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1028615-i-don-t-want-to-be-muslim-anymore
As for valuing people for their physical appearance, it's a valid thing to do, but please note that the first, primary and often only value that is rated about a female is "how bangable they look", and their personality and person as a whole is otherwise dismissed: they're degraded to being nothing than a potential sentient biological sex-toy.
I think that in mainstream US culture, female oppression is largely a thing of the past, with a relative few individual exceptions.
But I DO think that in certain sub-cultures, it still definitely exists. Having done service work in people's homes in 3 states, I can tell you that among the lower class ("trailer trash"/"ghetto"/"barrio") cultures, women are valued much lower overall, and what's worse is that women in these cultures often share and perpetuate these views just as much as the men do.
Because of that, it doesn't surprise me that different people have different views. I grew up middle-class, and the mainstream view in that culture is that women are equals, and I'd expect the vast majority of middle and upper-class folks to say the same. But among the lower class and in certain ethnic immigrant groups, older ideals are still strongly embraced.
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Thank you for this intelligent response. I appreciate it:)
Occasionally you get one guy who has an issue with women but in general men do not see women as "below" them (unless it's kinky play, but that's a whole different story). If I have someone I don't like it isn't because of their sexual organs, it is because they did or saod something that made me dislike them. However, I have had some women I don't like accuse me of being sexist because I didn't like them, I've also had black/hispanic people accuse me of racism because I didn't like them. They're just grasping at straws, there are plenty of white males I don't like.
They just understood they lost the argument and tried to turn whoever was in earshot against my credibility, typical of those who are close-minded and uninformed.
In the corporate world, like, on the facial surface, no. So many things the woman can do to sue the man, it would be hell for them. However, behind closed doors, I would say absolutely.
There are many under the table jobs and scared and threatened women who are bullied by their male bosses, too scared to lose their job, it's a terrible thing really. I've heard about it from some of my friends.
Doubly so for outside of America, especially in places like Afghanistan, I couldn't even imagine what that's like to be a woman there. But I know the main focus of this question was America so, I won't slide into that field.
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Yeah, I don't think anyone can deny that women in the Middle East are not equal to men. I was just wondering how people viewed this issue in America, specifically. Thanks for your well thought out answer:)
Actually, not gonna lie, in my job, my boss is surprisingly lewd with the female workers here, and they just let it happen. It's not sexual oppression or anything, but he does say some shit that's enough to make you raise an eyebrow.
And this is a full blown corporate company I work at, some of the under the table jobs I used to work at were REALLY fucked up.
Wow, that's crazy. I mean, I live in a very small town so maybe that's why I have never experienced this (or I just never noticed) but it's interesting to hear about the experiences of other people.
Oppressed in America? Give me a break. Women in America have never been oppressed. Ever. Asians, Irish, Blacks. . . these people have been oppressed in America.
Definition of oppression - "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control." cruel and unjust treatment isn't being told (not forced, mind you) not to wear certain clothing if you want to lower the chances of getting raped. Cruel and unjust treatment is interment camps that the Japanese went through. What the blacks face with slavery (yes, some whites were slaves as well, and some blacks were slave owners but) and being hung from trees (even outside of the times of slavery), what women are facing in the middle east.. these are examples of oppression. We can make arguments that both women and men have been repressed and suppressed, but women in America have never been oppressed because they were women. Let alone being oppressed by men.
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Opinion Owner
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The "give me a break" is not directed at you. Just at the thought of women in America being oppressed.
There is this video. This is something that is very common in our society. But even with this, I wouldn't say that men are being oppressed. Repressed , yes, but not oppressed.
I'm also answering this as women aren't oppressed in American in a general sense and not an absolute one. There are individual males and individual females that have been oppressed in their life (such as Amanda Berry being oppressed by Ariel Castro), but when talking about the general populace neither men or women in America are oppressed. It's not something that happens on a national scale. The reason I would say that men are being repressed by what is happening in that video and not oppressed is because they have the free will to do something about. They can leave the relationship if they wanted too. Sure there may be individual cases where a girl plays out the book "misery" but generally speaking, no, it's not oppression. Just my 2 cents.
I'm all for equality, and even though I know I'll get attacked for this, much of the fault lies with women. There is so much talk of wanting gender roles from women (guy needs to be dominant, guy needs to be taller, guy needs to approach, etc...), yet in the workplace and other areas of life, they want to be treated equally. I like treating women equally like the gentleman that I am, but I cannot stand the constant hypocritical BS and I think it is mainly up to women to drop the double standards.
I see it all the time too. They claim to call men "privileged" yet they want all the privileges they can have without any responsibility involved. Can't have it both ways.
Exactly. Open a door for a lady and she'll take you to task for thinking she's incapable. Don't open it for her, and you're not a gentleman, you're unchivalrous tool.
Women want equal pay. They don't want to do the dangerous, high-stress, and dirty jobs. Other than that though, they want the pay.
In relationships, it's all the guy's work. You ask her out. You plan the dates. You pursue her. But she still gets to decide when the relationship escalates. I'll believe things are equal when girls start actually insisting on paying for first dates and have no qualms about routinely dating men who earn less than them.
When I hear the word feminist the first thing I think of is some old fashioned fruit loop that thinks every woman on a college campus is getting raped or women have a disadvantage in the workplace because they get pregnant. A true feminist is about equality but the media is ridiculous with its nonsense so now I have to preface every self proclaimed feminist to see if they are actually sane.
Anyway, it is a fact that today in America is the best time ever to be a woman. No doubt about it. Hell, if I was a hot woman (7+) I'd trade for fuck sakes (literally/figuratively, yo).
I think it's time we move on from the period when feminists truly did open doors for girls and women, because those doors are largely open. Women now account for more college graduates than men, and I read something recently that women make up the majority of the classes in law schools and medical schools. GM has a woman as CEO. I don't think there is overt oppression of women any longer in the Western world. In the Muslim world, however, the situation is MUCH different. Women who are even suspected of adultery or fornication are buried up to their necks and stoned to death. Female Genital Mutilation is a brutal practice that has made its way to America (thanks to our insane immigration policies). We can't allow political correctness to cower us into not speaking out against what is occurring to women in the Muslim world.
how can you read all those examples and not see that? women will always be oppressed as long as we're women. the day we stop being oppressed will be the day when ''man'' and ''woman'' don't exist because people will no longer feel the need to make the social distinction between males and females. gender is a hierarchy that places males-men, above females-women. if we were equal there would be no need for the terms.
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I disagreed with all of the examples based on MY personal experiences. This is why I asked the question. My experiences do not match up to those in that article. That's why I wanted to the opinions of other people. Thanks for your response:)
Hmmmm look at what happened to the Soviet Union look at all the communist countries they are garbage. Captalism works much better. And yes men and women are not equal its human nature men are physically larger and stronger than women. What's to argue there?
I agree in equal treatment of both sexes but you can't argue the fact that women are more vulnerable because they are the weaker sex (physically). You want equality lets see women compete against men in hockey lol that won't end well for the women.
ah yes, look at the wonderful state of the world, the beauty of capitalism. thanks for admitting that, at least you can stop acting like women are oppressing you now.
I think the world will be even better when we don't distinguish between cats and dogs. Fuck it, I mean why call a cat a cat? Is it less important than a dog? The word "cat" is demeaning. You know what else? There's no difference in value between a cucumber and a pickle so let's get rid of those terms as well. Goodbye "horse" and "cow", you're all now referred to as a collective noun, "Animal."
ugh do people really still not know the difference between sex and gender? what's with the reading comprehension on this site? i clearly stated that it's a SOCIAL distinction that we need to get rid of, gender. not sex.
It seems clear that YOU think that women are inferior just because we are women. You cannot eliminate gender distinctions so long as there are physiologial differences between men and women. And there are plenty, even besides penis vs vagina. The more you advocate for women becoming more like men the more you devalue our strengths as women. No, women are not equal to men in all aspects; however, men are not equal to women in all aspects either. Women who, like you, do not see value in our inherent gifts and abilities as women and advocate for 'equality' enforce the notion that we, as women, are inherently inferior beings.
let me ask you this, what are these inherent gifts and abilities? is this some girl/boy brain shit you're going to spew? girls like pink and dresses? we're just NATURALLY caring and submissive? is that it? because all of those are a result of socialization and aren't consistent with all women. there is no connecting factor between women aside from the fact that we're all socialized into womanhood based on genitals.
I have balls you don't. Therefore I am a male and your a female. That's just biology. I think the pendulum in today's society has swung in favor of women.
yeah male and female. but GENDER is not innate. it's imposed. and it has always been about male supremacy, none of you who are saying this ''women have it better now'' shit actually believe it, like biggie, you all reveal sooner or later-that you know women are oppressed, you just want us to shut up about it.
A social distinction between the sexes is hardly offensive. That's like saying it's rude to refer to a Chinese person as Chinese. It's only offensive if you find it demeaning to be recognized as a human with a vagina. I do realize that sexuality and gender are different. But I don't see where you're going with that. ..
you obviously don't-i said SEX , not sexuality. sex is if you are born with a vagina or penis-female or male (or intersex). gender the social construct that says males-men are superior to females.women, it's the basis of female oppression-sexism. man and woman are just names of socioeconomic classes based on sex.
Oh no no no! Gender is LITERALLY defined as "the state of being male or female. " maybe in your mind gender is somehow intertwined with socioeconomics but in reality no. Sorry.
the reason it's defined that way is because all of us are socialized into it based on sex. so other than trans people, we all fit it. gender is not sex, it's the socialization of the sexes
This is a rather extreme viewpoint. I can see an argument that things will not always be equal due to linguistic separation of terms -- this is a reasonable position --, but to suggest that for all of history that this will default to male advantage is deeply cynical. I predict in the next century a time of unprecedented female power reminiscent of ancient matriarchies may come into being. Of course, that prediction will come to a screeching halt if another world war breaks out :)
so your argument is, that even though it was created as and always has been an advantage for males, that in the future it might be an advantage for females? even if that happened, how is that a good thing? regardless of what you may think, feminism is not about establishing matriarchies
I understand its not, that's just a side consequence of other things.
Regardless of which side has advantage at any point in the past or the future, I don't think there ever will be a moment of pure equality for anyone, someone will always have something over someone else, and it will be because of gender or misconstrued to be because of it.
Equal respect and rights is an ideal definition for 'equality.' That is a good place for everyone to go. Shooting for a unisex society shows fear in our differences, and provided we have some interesting new sexual technologies, forcing a disexual species into a monosexual existence is extremely silly, but it is the logical conclusion of some of these thought processes.
i don't see how you're still conflating sex and gender. i'm not saying let's give males prenatal care, i'm saying let's not make the SOCIAL distinction. why is it necessary to know the sex of the person you're hiring if you're not sexist? why is it necessary to have different styles of clothing attributed to one or the other if you're not sexist?
We're definitely talking about the same thing. Social distinction. But must differentiation always be used for sexism? For labor I can really agree with you there, gender really isn't even relevant on the app, even physical labor as long as you're willing to put down what you can lift.
But you know, without style, the world has no color :) Women are perfectly welcomed to wear men's clothes, and as the case may be in SF, there is no shortage of men wearing women's.
Just asking you personally, do you hold value in a world where gender is no longer apart of your personal identity, your style, your flare, your dance moves? Think carefully on this, because you can't even break boundaries if there are none, and that in itself can be fun for people. In fact, if the world becomes genderless, do not be surprised that tomorrow's rebels will wear statements of their gender.
so for you, style is worth more than the fact that we could get rid of a system of oppression? style doesn't need to have a designated sex, there already are unisex companies. the ''joys'' of gender can only be enjoyed by the privileged who don't have to deal with the fallout of these distinctions
I don't know. In some ways, I'll say that yes, all women are in some ways oppressed, even if they themselves don't recognize it as such.
For example, there's a video that's been making the rounds recently, where the singer for Staind goes off on some concertgoers when he saw them molesting a teenage girl while she was crowd surfing. As I watched this video, I realized that every single time a woman's related to me a crowd surfing experience, overt groping, molestation, or violation has occurred (one even told me that a guy had forced his fingers inside her through the "leg" of her shorts). Usually, this is the first and last time they tried it. And so I mentioned it to a group of my friends, and they were all like "well, yeah, what the fuck does a chick expect is going to happen"? I know as a guy, I don't have to worry about shit like that, and women shouldn't fucking have to worry about it either.
On what basis do you think they shouldn't have to worry about it? Men are creatures of evolution; Denying evolution is like denying gravity or denying statistics. Many other species experience rape constantly, and depend on it to proliferate the species. So since women do not like rape, they should obviously worry about it and try to prevent it.
What the fuck are you talking about? We are not a species that depends on rape for "proliferation", and as a species we haven't evolved for hundreds of thousands of years. Evolution for us has halted, and nothing is left to drive it. Extinction is the next step for us. Let's not rush it along by being incredibly vapid douchebags, mkay?
ALL THE TIME. Guys at my school, men at my work. They speak down to me all the time, how I work for them. I live in the south. Most of the southern born guys here were brought up that way, that women are stay at home and men work. I think the men around me should be raised better that women as just as good as men.
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Asker
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I live in the south also. My experiences are different. Most of the men I know were brought up to be respectful. I live in a very rural community though.
Interesting. I think that's probably the biggest difference. I haven't had good experiences in cities with anyone. People seem much nicer in rural communities from what I've noticed.
Oh yes! Much more welcoming too! Up here they are much more snobby. Not me personally. I've just been to the country a few times and I can see a huge difference.
Let me start this off with not all men are rapist, most men are great and respectful men, but we live in a world where a few bad apples ruin the bunch. Every time I'm in a parking garage, that guy could just be looking for his car or he could be a rapist. This fear and knowledge that men are bigger than you and can fairly easily over power you is a serious issue. I've also had a couple of problems with sexual harassment, especially when I was a minor, and every time I was told that it was my fault not his for being inappropriate or even in some cases attacking me because "boys will be boys".
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Just like racism, it takes a long time for things like this to dissolve. But it's apparent when looking at modern society (strictly in the western world, as you mentioned) that both racism and sexism are slowly being phased out. But the traces of both will not disappear until long after our lives are over, if at all.
However, from my observations (I have no evidence to back this up) it seems that society is evolving towards the increased oppression of men. Many so called 'feminists' lobby for rights that prefer female over male. I prefer to call people who support sexual equality 'equalists' instead of 'feminists'.
It seems that due to the increased social status (the ever decreasing pay gap, for example, even though it's an extremely biased statistic) of women that some men feel emasculated, for reasons beyond my understanding. This causes them to act out in rape, sexual harassment or just simple 'douchebaginess', for lack of a better term. This can also be caused by the seemingly infinite number of songs, television programs, movies and books that practically promise men a beautiful woman as a prize. But of course, none of this excuses their actions.
There are more men who oppress women than vice versa, or so it seems, as women who do oppress are more subtle than their male counterparts. I want to stress that I'm not saying all, or even most women do this, because it's a rare but spreading act.
There was never a need for feminism, only for equality.
Again, this is all speculation on my part and based only on my experiences and observations, I haven't competed any research on the subject. Take this with a grain of salt.
I am a very open minded person who respects a variety of opinions, I have also had a more closed upbringing than some other people. My first argument is that men and women will never be equal, we just can't, we can get very close but 100% equality doesn't seem feasible.
I work in a very male dominated world. At university the female:male ratio was 4:7. However fortunately I have never been what I would consider oppressed by men and I live in England which I would like to think is pretty similar to American in regards to the western side of equality. Sure I've come across sexist men, My physics teacher in high school once asked the class to make a motor he said "Boys, build be a motor, Girls you can try". That really stuck in my mind. I know girls who have been oppressed, a friend of mine who works for British Airways was told to lose weight another friend who is a trainee civil engineer was told because she was female she would never have a chance in the field. Now this is hardly motivating. I have been to many places in the world, and I can tell you what women face in other countries is nothing compared to what the western woman faces. I feel very lucky to live in a society where I am not oppressed by men.
I guess the UK is different here in the United States there are actually more women than men attending colleges and Universites.
It's not about where you're from, it's about the University you're at. There was a 4:9 guy:girl ratio at my Uni.
I wouldn't say oppressed but I think there are some issues.
For example did you know that equal right between men and women are not in the constitution? I think they should be
And then there is the media and society, where I think we've actually made steps backwards in the last 30 or 40 years. Women in the media especially advertising are highly sexualised. A lot of them show only certain body parts women not even their whole body, let alone them as a whole person. That's what little girls and boys grow up to. Girls way too often think they're worth is equal to their attractiveness and that sex is the only to get boys to like you. And well boys will ultimately see girls less as people and more as what they see in the media and create a lot of other problems like thinking it's ok to rape. It's a long way granted, but it goes in that direction.
I think it's the same problem we've always had with genders just a different way to deal with it. Men want sex, that's a pretty accepted fact throughout most cultures. And in the 1960s people would tell young girls men want sex, stay the hell away from them and today they tell young girls men want sex, so be what they want. Both has issues, they're just different issues
Woman want sex too. They just aren't as open and usually a little more cautious.
Not sure what that has to do with what I said?
Men want sex, that's a pretty accepted fact throughout most cultures
Taken from your post.
Men are raped too it's just not looked at as an issue.
I didn't say it was a right or complete assumption, but it is an assumption the vast majority of cultures make and base their laws or customs on
I'm pretty sure oppression still exists in a few area's in American Culture. However, I personally don't see it happening that often. There are cases as to where I hear guys talking "smack" behind their woman's back, but never really act upon it.
There are a lot of double standards out there, but that goes both ways as well, and I don't always see that as being classified as oppression. With being in the Tech world/programming. I don't see a lot of women at my work place, but the 4 women that are in my office. Are all treated fairly, and often times better than the men. No guy hits on them continuously without a probably cause, no one makes any unprofessional jokes at their expense, and most of all. No one has ever made any physical contact with any of them in a negative way.
For myself, I grew up being raised by my mother (father wasn't around much), and I've always respected women to the fullest. Of course we all say dumb things in fights, but I've never put a woman in a position. To where she feels like she's being oppressed, because she's a woman.
I think woman can't be rapers cause most of dem get satisfied and the ones who don't get cock are depressive or in therapy. 2nd. Women can't be rapers cause they have less force than men to pull em into a car etc. Women who walk at 3am outside with party clothes will get attention from some psycho raper or pedophiles while men have to check for serial killers and other stuff. I would think of a real ugly woman that could be a rapist too but that sounds strange. No men has to be like those horny beings (I'm horny too) and I even respect all NOs from women. The people that do this are as dangerous as killers cause their mind is on the same level. The hardest deal with rapist can be on your own family as I heard some turkish family daughter got raped by her grandpa wtf. I don't see all men as bad but retarded people will exist everywhere but in a world where man had as many chances as women to get raped I would consider men still as less dangerously cause women that is crazy can fuck you even more up
"a world where man had as many chances as women to get raped" I seriously doubt that affirmation. There just are less would be rapists interested in men.
"women that is crazy can fuck you even more up"
Only if the guy helps her to let it happen.
Agree with that last one. The woman has to be a body builder to make it happen. I didn't say there are no rapist women.
So you don't think men are crazy maniac sex beasts? MARRY ME. You're the sanest most intelligent woman I've ever seen! :') Thanks you for not being like the idiotic millions of feminist women who think that all men are rapists. That's like saying all women are sluts. It's just not true! Yet people support them. Only idiots support feminists, the smart ones (like you) support equality. And if someone says "Women get it tougher" I'll say "go fuck yourself" because who's the one that's expected to die on the front lines? Who's the one who pulls out the chair, opens the door, pays the bills, and is expected to treat their partners like princesses? Who's the one who gets treated like rapists everywhere they go? You see what I mean, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction (or something like that) Women don't want to treat every man like they're a rapist, and men don't want to be treated like they're rapists!
Female oppression is rare, but does exist. BUT MALE OPPRESSION EXISTS JUST AS MUCH. Yet feminists treat it like only females get oppressed and all men are the oppressors. The saddest part is many MAAAAANY men support them... Thank God there are some women, like you, who still think clearly
You dont have to understand or acknowledge oppression to be oppressed. Often you have some sense of it if you are aware, but if you lack certain experiences or exist in a certain position of privilege in other ways, its easy to not understand how people with similar identities are oppressed for those identities. For example, a wealthy black person who has never consciously understood racism or experienced aggressive, blatant racism may feel that black people are no longer oppressed or discriminated against as a group. That doesn't at all mean that he or she is correct. In fact, there's plenty of real life and academic research/evidence, politics, etc. to prove them to be incorrect. Subjective experience vs objective realities. "It doesn't happen in my own little every day life" (or rather, you dont acknowledge it or perceive it in your everyday life) is not the same thing as "It doesn't happen anymore."
I definitely think women are still being oppressed. While I understand ignorance and lack of awareness, its still hard for me sometimes to process people who genuinely think sexism was successfully wiped out in a matter of decades. It would be one of the most ambitious and fast evolutions in human history, thats for sure. Must be nice.
I'm a feminist, and of course, I definitely still see sexism alive and well, which fuels that oppression.
If women are still being oppressed all over the world, why would you ask whether or not feminism is necessary in america? I never understand that. Are Americans some super species now that just isn't at all prone to the common human being's sexist and prejudiced ideas and treatment of people? Yeah, okay. We're so much farther along and better than every one else. *eyeroll*
treatment of women is worse in some places than others, absolutely. But I just dont know where this idea of "America: the post-everything utopia! We're so awesome, you guys." came from. Like, when did that happen?
God yes. Society still views women as inferior. You don't need to do much research to find out just how biased the US justice system is in favour or rapists. Judges and on occasion politicians publicly say extremely bigoted things about rape and women in the US. I don't know, but I can imagine that the reason you don't feel you have ever been harassed is because it's normalized so that you hardly think anything of it. I spent a long time thinking that in the modern era the sexes were equal, but I've come to realise that's because I'm out of touch with how a woman has to be constantly vigilant when she goes out or how truly women can't rely on the police or the justice system to protect them. There was a case not so long ago where basically a policeman grabbed the breast of a passerby during an occupy protest (this woman was an activist but was not protesting at the time). She flinched, as of course you would do, and her arm hit the police officer. She was then beat by the police and knocked out. There were bruises on her body including on her breast. She's currently serving seven years for assault of a police officer. No matter how you construe the facts of the case, she did not intentionally assault a police officer. But she's in jail for doing just that. There was another case where a man drugged and raped his wife routinely over three years. Judge Kurt Eisgruber didn't give the man, who confessed on video, a day in jail and told the woman to forgive him. You can find several other similar cases. Some men get so angry however at feminism (equal rights for women is by nature equal rights for men) because they identify so much with masculinity and their gender role that they can't handle the guilt of it being responsible for harm, and simply because they can't acknowledge others' problems without involving themselves. No one's saying all men are rapists or misogynists: Men also face problems from women being viewed as inferior. But there's still a need for feminism
The muslim countries, the muslim religion and India really needs to figure out how to treat other people as people, and not according to sex, race, class, etc.
It depends on the male person who acts against the female, but there are a few who still think that females cannot be proper CEOs because they're females, or that they can't drive, that they should clean the house, that they're to be valued based on their boobs and asses and legs, etc.
So it still happens. Not as prevalent, but it's still a thing.
An example of its recording is the Everyday Sexism project: https://twitter.com/EverydaySexism
Not only in Muslim countries.
If you still value them as people, can you value their boobs, asses, legs, etc?
It's a silly question, but it's a point too =-)
I don't know, I think there's a lot of propaganda here in the west on how women in the middle-east are struggling compared to men. According to this poll women in the middle-east and north Africa are the most likely to rate their lives better than men do:
www.gallup.com/.../...Equally-Likely-Thriving.aspx
Some people also grow to care about their kidnappers, it's called the Stockholm-syndrome. After a certain amount of time being continuously oppressed by everyone and told that it's the right thing to expect, you eventually grow to accept it. Just look at how muslims strictly define the lives of females, from not talking to guys unless it's for future procreation, to apparently not doing art because it's "trying to act like God". Seriously? Citation here at www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1028615-i-don-t-want-to-be-muslim-anymore
As for valuing people for their physical appearance, it's a valid thing to do, but please note that the first, primary and often only value that is rated about a female is "how bangable they look", and their personality and person as a whole is otherwise dismissed: they're degraded to being nothing than a potential sentient biological sex-toy.
I think that in mainstream US culture, female oppression is largely a thing of the past, with a relative few individual exceptions.
But I DO think that in certain sub-cultures, it still definitely exists. Having done service work in people's homes in 3 states, I can tell you that among the lower class ("trailer trash"/"ghetto"/"barrio") cultures, women are valued much lower overall, and what's worse is that women in these cultures often share and perpetuate these views just as much as the men do.
Because of that, it doesn't surprise me that different people have different views. I grew up middle-class, and the mainstream view in that culture is that women are equals, and I'd expect the vast majority of middle and upper-class folks to say the same. But among the lower class and in certain ethnic immigrant groups, older ideals are still strongly embraced.
Thank you for this intelligent response. I appreciate it:)
Not in the least.
Occasionally you get one guy who has an issue with women but in general men do not see women as "below" them (unless it's kinky play, but that's a whole different story). If I have someone I don't like it isn't because of their sexual organs, it is because they did or saod something that made me dislike them. However, I have had some women I don't like accuse me of being sexist because I didn't like them, I've also had black/hispanic people accuse me of racism because I didn't like them. They're just grasping at straws, there are plenty of white males I don't like.
They just understood they lost the argument and tried to turn whoever was in earshot against my credibility, typical of those who are close-minded and uninformed.
In the corporate world, like, on the facial surface, no. So many things the woman can do to sue the man, it would be hell for them. However, behind closed doors, I would say absolutely.
There are many under the table jobs and scared and threatened women who are bullied by their male bosses, too scared to lose their job, it's a terrible thing really. I've heard about it from some of my friends.
Doubly so for outside of America, especially in places like Afghanistan, I couldn't even imagine what that's like to be a woman there. But I know the main focus of this question was America so, I won't slide into that field.
Yeah, I don't think anyone can deny that women in the Middle East are not equal to men. I was just wondering how people viewed this issue in America, specifically. Thanks for your well thought out answer:)
Actually, not gonna lie, in my job, my boss is surprisingly lewd with the female workers here, and they just let it happen. It's not sexual oppression or anything, but he does say some shit that's enough to make you raise an eyebrow.
And this is a full blown corporate company I work at, some of the under the table jobs I used to work at were REALLY fucked up.
Wow, that's crazy. I mean, I live in a very small town so maybe that's why I have never experienced this (or I just never noticed) but it's interesting to hear about the experiences of other people.
I've seen it too. Like you said, how can you call it oppression when the girls just laugh about it and play along? It's almost hypocritical.
Oppressed in America? Give me a break. Women in America have never been oppressed. Ever. Asians, Irish, Blacks. . . these people have been oppressed in America.
Definition of oppression - "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control." cruel and unjust treatment isn't being told (not forced, mind you) not to wear certain clothing if you want to lower the chances of getting raped. Cruel and unjust treatment is interment camps that the Japanese went through. What the blacks face with slavery (yes, some whites were slaves as well, and some blacks were slave owners but) and being hung from trees (even outside of the times of slavery), what women are facing in the middle east.. these are examples of oppression. We can make arguments that both women and men have been repressed and suppressed, but women in America have never been oppressed because they were women. Let alone being oppressed by men.
The "give me a break" is not directed at you. Just at the thought of women in America being oppressed.
Yeah, I understand what you meant. Thanks for sharing your thoughts:)
You're welcome :)
There is this video. This is something that is very common in our society. But even with this, I wouldn't say that men are being oppressed. Repressed , yes, but not oppressed.
I'm also answering this as women aren't oppressed in American in a general sense and not an absolute one. There are individual males and individual females that have been oppressed in their life (such as Amanda Berry being oppressed by Ariel Castro), but when talking about the general populace neither men or women in America are oppressed. It's not something that happens on a national scale. The reason I would say that men are being repressed by what is happening in that video and not oppressed is because they have the free will to do something about. They can leave the relationship if they wanted too. Sure there may be individual cases where a girl plays out the book "misery" but generally speaking, no, it's not oppression. Just my 2 cents.
Here's the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5vRGtKPY0
www.oxforddictionaries.com/.../oppress
Using the first definition in regards to society as a whole.
I'm all for equality, and even though I know I'll get attacked for this, much of the fault lies with women. There is so much talk of wanting gender roles from women (guy needs to be dominant, guy needs to be taller, guy needs to approach, etc...), yet in the workplace and other areas of life, they want to be treated equally. I like treating women equally like the gentleman that I am, but I cannot stand the constant hypocritical BS and I think it is mainly up to women to drop the double standards.
I see it all the time too. They claim to call men "privileged" yet they want all the privileges they can have without any responsibility involved. Can't have it both ways.
Exactly. Open a door for a lady and she'll take you to task for thinking she's incapable. Don't open it for her, and you're not a gentleman, you're unchivalrous tool.
Women want equal pay. They don't want to do the dangerous, high-stress, and dirty jobs. Other than that though, they want the pay.
In relationships, it's all the guy's work. You ask her out. You plan the dates. You pursue her. But she still gets to decide when the relationship escalates. I'll believe things are equal when girls start actually insisting on paying for first dates and have no qualms about routinely dating men who earn less than them.
When I hear the word feminist the first thing I think of is some old fashioned fruit loop that thinks every woman on a college campus is getting raped or women have a disadvantage in the workplace because they get pregnant. A true feminist is about equality but the media is ridiculous with its nonsense so now I have to preface every self proclaimed feminist to see if they are actually sane.
Anyway, it is a fact that today in America is the best time ever to be a woman. No doubt about it. Hell, if I was a hot woman (7+) I'd trade for fuck sakes (literally/figuratively, yo).
I think it's time we move on from the period when feminists truly did open doors for girls and women, because those doors are largely open. Women now account for more college graduates than men, and I read something recently that women make up the majority of the classes in law schools and medical schools. GM has a woman as CEO. I don't think there is overt oppression of women any longer in the Western world. In the Muslim world, however, the situation is MUCH different. Women who are even suspected of adultery or fornication are buried up to their necks and stoned to death. Female Genital Mutilation is a brutal practice that has made its way to America (thanks to our insane immigration policies). We can't allow political correctness to cower us into not speaking out against what is occurring to women in the Muslim world.
how can you read all those examples and not see that?
women will always be oppressed as long as we're women. the day we stop being oppressed will be the day when ''man'' and ''woman'' don't exist because people will no longer feel the need to make the social distinction between males and females. gender is a hierarchy that places males-men, above females-women. if we were equal there would be no need for the terms.
I disagreed with all of the examples based on MY personal experiences. This is why I asked the question. My experiences do not match up to those in that article. That's why I wanted to the opinions of other people. Thanks for your response:)
Equality doesn't work in nature. Communism is good on paper but not in practice.
ah yes, because capitalism works in practice? or on paper for that matter?
and you're admitting we aren't equal, you just don't want it to change, thanks for being honest.
Hmmmm look at what happened to the Soviet Union look at all the communist countries they are garbage. Captalism works much better. And yes men and women are not equal its human nature men are physically larger and stronger than women. What's to argue there?
I agree in equal treatment of both sexes but you can't argue the fact that women are more vulnerable because they are the weaker sex (physically). You want equality lets see women compete against men in hockey lol that won't end well for the women.
ah yes, look at the wonderful state of the world, the beauty of capitalism.
thanks for admitting that, at least you can stop acting like women are oppressing you now.
seriously, someone ban him.
How in the world did this turn into a communism vs capitalism debate?
i can turn anything into an anti-capitalism rant lol
try me. puppies? IT'S A BOURGEOISIE SCHEME.
I think the world will be even better when we don't distinguish between cats and dogs. Fuck it, I mean why call a cat a cat? Is it less important than a dog? The word "cat" is demeaning. You know what else? There's no difference in value between a cucumber and a pickle so let's get rid of those terms as well. Goodbye "horse" and "cow", you're all now referred to as a collective noun, "Animal."
ugh do people really still not know the difference between sex and gender? what's with the reading comprehension on this site? i clearly stated that it's a SOCIAL distinction that we need to get rid of, gender. not sex.
It seems clear that YOU think that women are inferior just because we are women. You cannot eliminate gender distinctions so long as there are physiologial differences between men and women. And there are plenty, even besides penis vs vagina. The more you advocate for women becoming more like men the more you devalue our strengths as women. No, women are not equal to men in all aspects; however, men are not equal to women in all aspects either. Women who, like you, do not see value in our inherent gifts and abilities as women and advocate for 'equality' enforce the notion that we, as women, are inherently inferior beings.
let me ask you this, what are these inherent gifts and abilities? is this some girl/boy brain shit you're going to spew? girls like pink and dresses? we're just NATURALLY caring and submissive? is that it? because all of those are a result of socialization and aren't consistent with all women. there is no connecting factor between women aside from the fact that we're all socialized into womanhood based on genitals.
I have balls you don't. Therefore I am a male and your a female. That's just biology. I think the pendulum in today's society has swung in favor of women.
yeah male and female. but GENDER is not innate. it's imposed. and it has always been about male supremacy, none of you who are saying this ''women have it better now'' shit actually believe it, like biggie, you all reveal sooner or later-that you know women are oppressed, you just want us to shut up about it.
A social distinction between the sexes is hardly offensive. That's like saying it's rude to refer to a Chinese person as Chinese. It's only offensive if you find it demeaning to be recognized as a human with a vagina.
I do realize that sexuality and gender are different. But I don't see where you're going with that. ..
you obviously don't-i said SEX , not sexuality. sex is if you are born with a vagina or penis-female or male (or intersex). gender the social construct that says males-men are superior to females.women, it's the basis of female oppression-sexism. man and woman are just names of socioeconomic classes based on sex.
Oh no no no! Gender is LITERALLY defined as "the state of being male or female. " maybe in your mind gender is somehow intertwined with socioeconomics but in reality no. Sorry.
''the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).''
the reason it's defined that way is because all of us are socialized into it based on sex. so other than trans people, we all fit it. gender is not sex, it's the socialization of the sexes
So you don't want to be seen as a woman but a neutral thing?
not ''thing'', just a person.
This is a rather extreme viewpoint. I can see an argument that things will not always be equal due to linguistic separation of terms -- this is a reasonable position --, but to suggest that for all of history that this will default to male advantage is deeply cynical. I predict in the next century a time of unprecedented female power reminiscent of ancient matriarchies may come into being. Of course, that prediction will come to a screeching halt if another world war breaks out :)
Which it probably will.
so your argument is, that even though it was created as and always has been an advantage for males, that in the future it might be an advantage for females? even if that happened, how is that a good thing? regardless of what you may think, feminism is not about establishing matriarchies
I agree with just about everything in your post, but women make so many errors in their personal and romantic relationships.
I understand its not, that's just a side consequence of other things.
Regardless of which side has advantage at any point in the past or the future, I don't think there ever will be a moment of pure equality for anyone, someone will always have something over someone else, and it will be because of gender or misconstrued to be because of it.
Equal respect and rights is an ideal definition for 'equality.' That is a good place for everyone to go. Shooting for a unisex society shows fear in our differences, and provided we have some interesting new sexual technologies, forcing a disexual species into a monosexual existence is extremely silly, but it is the logical conclusion of some of these thought processes.
i don't see how you're still conflating sex and gender. i'm not saying let's give males prenatal care, i'm saying let's not make the SOCIAL distinction. why is it necessary to know the sex of the person you're hiring if you're not sexist? why is it necessary to have different styles of clothing attributed to one or the other if you're not sexist?
We're definitely talking about the same thing. Social distinction. But must differentiation always be used for sexism? For labor I can really agree with you there, gender really isn't even relevant on the app, even physical labor as long as you're willing to put down what you can lift.
But you know, without style, the world has no color :) Women are perfectly welcomed to wear men's clothes, and as the case may be in SF, there is no shortage of men wearing women's.
Just asking you personally, do you hold value in a world where gender is no longer apart of your personal identity, your style, your flare, your dance moves? Think carefully on this, because you can't even break boundaries if there are none, and that in itself can be fun for people. In fact, if the world becomes genderless, do not be surprised that tomorrow's rebels will wear statements of their gender.
That's just how people are =-)
so for you, style is worth more than the fact that we could get rid of a system of oppression? style doesn't need to have a designated sex, there already are unisex companies. the ''joys'' of gender can only be enjoyed by the privileged who don't have to deal with the fallout of these distinctions
Indeed, I am one of the privileged.
The rest of you, back to the unisex factories! *cracks whip*
I don't know. In some ways, I'll say that yes, all women are in some ways oppressed, even if they themselves don't recognize it as such.
For example, there's a video that's been making the rounds recently, where the singer for Staind goes off on some concertgoers when he saw them molesting a teenage girl while she was crowd surfing. As I watched this video, I realized that every single time a woman's related to me a crowd surfing experience, overt groping, molestation, or violation has occurred (one even told me that a guy had forced his fingers inside her through the "leg" of her shorts). Usually, this is the first and last time they tried it. And so I mentioned it to a group of my friends, and they were all like "well, yeah, what the fuck does a chick expect is going to happen"? I know as a guy, I don't have to worry about shit like that, and women shouldn't fucking have to worry about it either.
So yeah, #YesAllWomen
On what basis do you think they shouldn't have to worry about it? Men are creatures of evolution; Denying evolution is like denying gravity or denying statistics. Many other species experience rape constantly, and depend on it to proliferate the species. So since women do not like rape, they should obviously worry about it and try to prevent it.
What the fuck are you talking about? We are not a species that depends on rape for "proliferation", and as a species we haven't evolved for hundreds of thousands of years. Evolution for us has halted, and nothing is left to drive it. Extinction is the next step for us. Let's not rush it along by being incredibly vapid douchebags, mkay?
serp77 your definition of oppression is interesting. its 'natural'.
yet you responded on here by saying no. oppression does not exist... and its 'natural'.
Women are not oppressed bc rape though VERY oppressive, is 'natural'. very coherent.
ALL THE TIME. Guys at my school, men at my work. They speak down to me all the time, how I work for them. I live in the south. Most of the southern born guys here were brought up that way, that women are stay at home and men work. I think the men around me should be raised better that women as just as good as men.
I live in the south also. My experiences are different. Most of the men I know were brought up to be respectful. I live in a very rural community though.
I live in the urban area, lots of big cities around me, and almost 75% of guys are like that.
Interesting. I think that's probably the biggest difference. I haven't had good experiences in cities with anyone. People seem much nicer in rural communities from what I've noticed.
Oh yes! Much more welcoming too! Up here they are much more snobby. Not me personally. I've just been to the country a few times and I can see a huge difference.
Yeah, I always like how friendly everyone in my community is, even to strangers.
Let me start this off with not all men are rapist, most men are great and respectful men, but we live in a world where a few bad apples ruin the bunch. Every time I'm in a parking garage, that guy could just be looking for his car or he could be a rapist. This fear and knowledge that men are bigger than you and can fairly easily over power you is a serious issue.
I've also had a couple of problems with sexual harassment, especially when I was a minor, and every time I was told that it was my fault not his for being inappropriate or even in some cases attacking me because "boys will be boys".