Is the #metoo movement out of control? what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Question

I'm not going to re explain the entire movement but basically there has been a surge in reporting of sexual harassment / sexual assault related incidents in the last few months and most of it relates to the #metoo movement

but before this movement took off , there were already company policies in place relating to sexual harassment and violence in the workplace or on campus. and if anyone felt they had been victimised there was a legal process to take these claims to.

but now whats often happening is someone makes an allegation online or on social media and the person they accuse is often instantly removed from there current position and put on leave until an investigation is conducted but some are even fired almost as soon as word breaks of an accusation , there business or company just doesn't want to be associated with anything that's bad for business

we seem to be losing one of our fundamental rights , which was anyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. for someone to legally be convicted of sexual assault there has to be a legal process , they have a right to an attorney and get a fair trial. its not fair to essentially convict someone of sexual assault through the court of public opinion and ruin there live and career in the process even if they are guilty

everyone has heard of how horrible a person Harvey Weinstein is and maybe he is guilty of things but he has yet to even be charged with a crime and hasn't been convicted in court but in the court of public opinion he is already guilty at this point

SC4321 · Accepted Answer

Yes I think it is getting out of control. Obviously sexual assault is wrong, but this #metoo thing has just gone too far. People's careers and reputations are being tarnished over accusations. If there is proof obviously they should be criminally charged and they deserve any punishment they get. However, some people, like Aziz Ansari, are getting so much backlash over something that is a completely unsubstantiated claim. It's a very slippery slope if we get into a habit of taking accusers words as truth with out further investigation. If it continues, what's stopping someone from claiming someone they don't like sexually assaulted them in an effort to ruin that persons life, even though they did nothing wrong? Also It's going to get to a point where women claim sexual assault when a guy innocently touches their arm or asks them out on a date. It needs to be laid out what sexual assault is and what the process is for someone who is accused to be actually charged. Otherwise this movement is just going to take place of our justice system and ruin peoples lives based on accusations. Again so I don't get hate, I want to emphasize sexual assault is wrong, but there still has to be some process to determine if accusations are true so people's careers and lives aren't ruined if they really didn't do anything wrong.

BlueCoyote · Accepted Answer

It's a very difficult issue. I can totally see your point and I agree with it to some degree. However, I don't doubt for a second that lots of rich, powerful men are complete and utter assholes. Power corrupts personality, that's just the way it is. I wish these assaults (which are very tragic) could be discussed in a way that wouldn't lead to false accusations. I think the fundamental problem here is that the American society is already so divided and bitter about many things (and understandably so) that it has become almost impossible to have courteous public discussions, regardless of what specifically you're discussing.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

I don't know. I see a lot of comments about rape but the meetoo movement is about more than rape.

I had my breasts grabbed in 6th grade by another student I reported it right after it happened. My teacher took me seriously. A meeting was called with his parents, my parents, our teacher & the principal. By the end of the meeting my parents were told boys will be boys. My mom didn't know what to do but started asking around for advice. Within the next week I was moved to sit next to him in class to 'work on our issues'. When I complained to my mom she called the school. The next day my teacher asked to talk to me in the hall. She stopped in the doorway and I had to go under her arm to get in the hall. That's because she really wanted to yell at me in front of the class. Which she left the door open so they all heard her. I was told to grow up and stop making a big deal about this. Then she screamed at me, "What do you expect me to do?" I remember that bringing me to tears and then she told me to go sit down (next to him). That day I told my mom to leave it alone and she did. It's been 20 years. It wasn't the last sexual harrassment incident I dealt with but it was the last time I reported it.

I see both sides. False accusations should be treated like rape because they also destroy lives.

cormurnel · Accepted Answer

I was raped a year before this stuff happened and it has made me also react publicly and it’s partly because it’s triggery and it makes me angry that he got away with it so easily while i suffer from ptsd every day, no one has listened to me and I’ve lost everything because of it (he was a friend and I had to leave school and my social circles but as soon as I wasn’t crying in everyone’s faces they became friends with him again). To know that I have no chance of proving it in court and to watch him being totally fine and moving on is infuriating and the me too movement is somewhat inspiring. It makes me feel less ashamed and not want to hide. To see people getting punished for their crimes after being able to hide from it for so long feels good. It’s difficult because all I can prove to those around me is that whatever happened destroyed me and changed me, and it might not be enough to get him convicted but if it’ll make people trust him less, make him question what he did and feel guilty about it for the rest of his life and ensure he never gets the chance to do it again then I’ll gladly inform everyone what he is.

Cccgala · Accepted Answer

In the workplace setting, firms that resort to a course of action without regard for transparency and further investigation are incompetent enough for considering one party's claims without a single tinge of scrutiny while dismissing the other one's right to a trial.

The 'MeToo' movement is a bandwagon; hence, participation from both people who have true anecdotal accounts and people who fabricate claims is expected.

Giving audacity to claims that are either grounded on anecdotal accounts or fabricated to defame people of good name, the 'MeToo movement' seems to be utterly stagnant when it comes to constituting what cases truly demonstrate sexual harassment and sexual abuse and what does not.

Individuals (whom, in a majority of cases, have been women) who react on impulse and immediately brandish a dissatisfying personal encounter with the opposite sex as 'sexual harassment' are the ones who seem to tolerate the deed of blatantly resorting to misleading and manipulative claims that yield to divisive ramifications.

Cammy137 · Answer

Its just another trend. Its like when terrorist attacks happen and people change their Facebook photos to have like a French Flag filter on them. Its just a way for people to feel like they are doing something while actually doing nothing.
I've seen guys on social media being shot down for using the #metoo tag because some women wouldn't accept that men can be victims too. So its just another bullshit feminazi mive that will hopefully blow over

JimRSmith · Answer

Well said. A very concerning precedent is being set - trial by Twitter.

guilly18butnot · Answer

I believe you are right. And this fact harms the real victims of sexual harasment, not only the men accused.

Some feminist movements are extreme in their beliefs, and just flirting or trying to seduce a woman is considered harassment. Which is ridiculous. There's a big difference between trying to seduce someone from trying to impose aggresively your sexuality to someone.

I'm still pretty sure that in the world of Hollywood there have been plenty of cases of abuses from males, but I also believe that many women were willingly entering that devious game.

I was not born yesterday. I've seen the power a beautiful woman can exercise over a man and how she plays her cars knowingly. Both parts are guilty in this case, but also, none is as both are consenting adults. So as much as I've seen men of power becoming predators, I've seen gorgeous women using their seductive skills to gain their attention and favours.

This post of mine can be considered mysogienous as it diverges from the politically correct. But in this western society this is what is happening, wether it is the fault of this society being chauvinist or not, it is a fact.

All in all, I don't think most accusations are false, probably most are true, although some are in the line on wether this was a real harasment or just a normal approach on day to day basis when having a drink or two, with no further implications. And for those which are true, I'm with the women who are strong enough to denounce them. Men who practice sexual harassment are a shame for our gender, and show little to no respect to humanity as sexuality is more important than the person in front of you.

parttimelover · Answer

Thats what the culture has degraded to. A man will fight and kill. We can't have that. So what does the soft developed nation do? Publicly shame and besmirch him.
Im sure harvey did some sleazy shit. Did he destroy lives? Or did he simply damage feelings and caused some mental trauma?

PTSD soldiers kill themselves and they're hardly in the news. While an actress is protected and kept from killing herself (maybe) by letting her have her revenge. Make her think she's winning and going the right way.

Everybody has to go through some mental trauma in their lives. The human mental state is extremely malleable. Its not your left leg thats just there today and gone tomorrow.
The human mind is ever changing.

Harvey did what most men in the world thinks of doing. That's just it. He did it. He is a doer.

Instead of people doing. Now most hide just because of shame from the past. Instead of being productive. They are incapacitated by shame. All about feelings. This shame culture is bullshit. Who is affected by shame the most? Women. Women pornstars can get a lot of work after they retire can't they?

Shaming men is society trying to turn them into women. or maybe children.

Men have to do things. Get it done. Bend a few silly laws if you have to. But men have to get things done. He can't do his shit of he's walking around ashamed like a woman or a preschooler

1derfulguy · Answer

The problem with these cases is that it usually comes down to one person's word against the other's.

Ideally, women would a) do everything possible to put the man in question in his place immediately, and b) report his violation ASAP. However, as someone who has myself been the victim of that kind of thing, I know that that is rarely what you feel like doing. And for women, who are usually smaller than men and in the cases in question often lower in the pecking order in the organization concerned, there is the added risk to their physical safety and their career. So the status quo obviously wasn't tenable, which is why the #metoo movement happened.

My problem is with the professional feminists jumping aboard the bandwagon and using it as an opportunity to promote their ideology. It sickens me that exploit the issue to further their men = bad, women = good narrative. Especially since a sizeable proportion of the publicized cases concerned male victims of gay abusers. But those victims didn't matter to the feminists, because for them, this wasn't about certain behaviours being bad, i. e. sexual assault and worse, but about men being bad.

I have great respect for the victims coming forward, though. Even with the Aziz Ansari story, which got so much blowback, including from many women, even though I didn't feel like he was the world's worst person or anything, I was uncomfortable reading about his behaviour, especially since I recognized myself in it.

Poppykate · Answer

Yep! I am over it. Every Monday morning, I turn on the TV and hear about some woman, accusing some guy (usually a celebrity or a guy with a heap of money), that he touch her inappropriately. You find out later that it was settled out of court! 🙄 This needs to stop! Harsh penalty (like jail time) need to be applied to women who falsely accused!.

TheOnlyAriii · Answer

WHAT THE FUCK.
I feel so conflicted over women that are saying bs about the #meToo.

Some shit happened to me in a very young age that had unconscious repercussions on WHO I AM. No matter how little it was or how insignificant it may seem, it happened and it affected me. 10 years later i decided to tell someone about it BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW I WAS ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
It's not about blaming men and blabla, it's about FINALLY having the guts to talk!! About!! It!!

Men AND women.

All the people here who said "men get raped too!!" well then use the opportunity to bring awareness that it happens and people should be safe and FEEL THAT ITS OKAY TO TALK ABOUT IT.

Holy fucken potato.

skrillexdogboner420 · Answer

it's easy to see both sides of this issue. on one hand, authorities are taught to believe the victim of rape so that they will feel comfortable opening up about the situation, which is a very traumatizing and difficult situation to have to deal with; one that will be part of your life forever.

on the other hand, a lot of people are getting falsely accused, for many reasons, and none of them acceptable. this ruins lives as well, and should not be tolerated. anyone who falsely accuses someone of rape or sexual violence should be punished harshly.

it must be very straining on those who work in criminal justice

thatchristiangirl · Answer

Women are becoming highly attention seeking nowadays and wallowing in self pity. It's a very sickening movement that is actually highly degrading and defaming to men. It paints a very distorted picture of men that perceives them as rapists / sexual predators that prey on women.

Newsflash... women are just as capable of taking advantage of men, younger or even older than them.

Anonymous · Answer

It's bullshit. You know it's bullshit because celebrities are heavily involved. Celebrities like Natalie Portman who signed a petition to get child rapist Roman Polanski allowed back into the United States or Scarlett Johansson who defends woody Allen etc

Anonymous · Answer

Yes, it is out of control and is detracting from those women who have suffered rape and other physical violence.

I spoke to my grandmother a week or two about this. She can remember back in the 1960's when girls threw themselves ar pop artists. They were know as "Groupies". Some were willing to use any tactic to get with a band musician. I think it highly possible there were false accusations if they did not succeed. "Hell hath no fury..." as the saying goes.

markscott · Answer

It's a very difficult issue. Men can be accused of sexual harassment, even when innocent, and the label unfairly sticks to them the rest of their lives. At the same time, women are commonly sexually harassed, and they need to be heard. In practical terms, when there is strong corroborating evidence, actions need to be taken, if the woman has good credibility. Same for when multiple victims. If someone has many victims, most of whom are have good characters, then they need to be heard, and action taken. There are women who will come out of the woodwork, to accuse well known men. But they don't do this in large numbers to one person, with the same general themes and ways of sexually harassing women. With large numbers, they need to be believed.

r4ngeF · Answer

Guilty, innocent...
We live in a world where you can be guilty and found innocent and vice versa.
Who cares for terms, whoever does such things should get his penis cut "Lorena bobbitt style".
And for women who falsely accuse men, they should get their vocal cords cut.

Now, regarding the question:
Every movement does wrong and does good.
You can't have just one of the two...
And with every aspect in life (not just movementa) you ask yourself.. "Is it mkre good, or more bad?
And the true answer is that its good.
Of course, some men getting fucked by this, but the truth is... More girls were harmed.
This is all for the greater good. Period.

chris1965 · Answer

Me too is an important step in the process of making this acceptable in society. For many many many years it was kept in the closet under wraps and dealt with if it all in the shadows.

Because it was kept in the shadows if they'll with it all it's karma coming back to bite these guys in the ass. So it's the consequence of their actions of the past decades.

If you want to change the accusations to charges then the law has to be changed so that there is no time limit to make a formal complaint against an abuser.

Soteris · Answer

You appear to be missing the point. This whole situation came about because the system we had before simply did not work even slightly. Now the situation has blown up and of course it won't be pretty. Instead of bitching about the situation blowing up its your own fault for not dealing with it when it was a manageable issue in the first place.

This is entirely your own fault, now suffer the consequences because that is what they are, consequences of your previous inaction. Question remains however. Will you learn from this and improve or will this repeat itself in 10 years?

EleventhDoctor · Answer

Right, so this is two separate issues.

#MeToo is a positive thing to happen. It's allowed victims of sexual violence (male and female) to come forward and show that it's a massive issue in society today, and allowed justice to be served for some of them

-THAT BEING SAID-

Anyone who is accused should have their identities kept secret until the day they're convicted. There are too many people who've had their entire careers ruined over false accusations. People are innocent until proven guilty, and when celebrities are "exposed" as rapists and then are aquitted, they often can't get back into their daily lives without being threatened etc.

FlightlessPhoenix · Answer

Our society may say innocent until proven guilty but I can never recall a moment where it has followed it honestly once accused you're always guilty that's just how it is anymore and it's fucking disgusting.

TheButterfly · Answer

People like Larry Nassar are why the #metoo movement is being taken so seriously. He sexually assaulted 156 girls, many of whom did try to report it, and nothing was done to him until recently, after all damage was done. The reason why people are put on leave from their job is to prevent them from further hurting anyone else. Nassar was put on leave from Michigan State, but not leave from other places he practiced medicine, and actually sexually assaulted another girl in the process. It is way better to be safe than sorry.

Anonymous · Answer

I think #metoo is stupid. Guys get raped too why am I not seeing any #metoo movement from guys... ? even that don't forget some people are evil what if that women lied? I mean don't get me wrong some will say 'why is she going to lie for ' but hey it happens many times before when a women has lied and men going to jail for years when they did nothing! So yes OP you are right what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Stupid movement...

Bliss-taylor · Answer

With Harvey its pretty much proven its more than just other women talking about it. there's a video of him harassing a model and even people he has worked with have admitted to his extra curricular activity. He has admitted he has problems and was in therapy for it. He had a contract with TWC that allowed sexual harassment as long as he paid TWC back for settlements or judgments. That all is very crimination evidence. That doesn't include ALL the women to say the similar things about him.
BUT I do agree the ME TOO movement is out of control. One woman claims something. Has no evidence. Now his career is destroyed. Thats not fair and very troubling.

Is the #metoo movement out of control? what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

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