What Do You Think About THIS Wealth Distribution (US) And the American Dream?

[curiousnorway]

#AmericanDream #WealthDistribution #Inequality #FairnessVsUnfairness

[BlueCoyote]

It shows that America is not a meritocracy and that the American dream is a nice but unfortunately untrue myth. A myth the billionaire class has been telling regular people for decades now in order to keep them quiet and obedient.

There are spoiled brats in the US who are born into billions of dollars. At the same time, the Republican Party has been actively fighting a war against the poor since the late 1970s. In Europe and elsewhere, nations have tried to get as many people as possible out of poverty; in the US, poor people are being publicly shamed and discriminated. Poor people are said to be lazy and dishonest and many other bad things.

Bernie Sanders is the poorest member of the entire US Congress. Think about that for a moment. Bernie Sanders isn't poor, in fact he's quite decently off. Yet, he is THE POOREST person out of 535 representatives. The entire US government is clotted with multimillionaires and billionaires. What does that say about this country? Aren't these people supposed to "represent" regular Americans? When I lived in America, I didn't see cities full of billionaires. I met people who had been working for GE for their whole lives and were laid off. I talked to kids in my High School who lived with their parents in a trailer park without running water. I saw streets and public buildings that were crumbling.

It is hard to describe how much regular Americans are getting fucked over by the system and by their rich overlords. America is the richest country on the planet, yet it won't spend money for its people's health or education or the country's infrastructure. Things that should be self-understanding.
But the worst thing is this constant propaganda that the rich people and of course the corporate media spread. Oh, the glory of capitalism. Holy capitalism, thou makest everyone rich. Except... it doesn't.
And besides, what America has isn't capitalism, it's a plutocracy. Again, real competition isn't allowed by the huge monopolies and meritocracy is a myth.

The whole thing reminds me a bit of China, where government propaganda has seeped in so much that regular people are now defending the government for taking away their rights. For example there are lots of Chinese people who think it's a great thing their country isn't a democracy.
To us, this might sound Orwellian. In reality, America is very similar. Not in regard to civil rights but in regard to money.

Luckily, millennials have begun to realize that this is all a farce.

[WalterRadio]

Wealth and income inequality have no real bearing.

The important metric is whether people's lives are improving or not. Think of how rich Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Zukerburg, Waltons, Fords, etc. are. That is wonderful. They got that way by providing something people wanted to make their lives better.

Today's American poor live a life of luxury that rich people of 120 years ago could not even dream about. They have cars, air conditioning, medicines, indoor plumbing, electric lights, radios that fit in the palm of their hand and allows them to communicate with anyone in the world. Amazing.

[goaded]

Even in the US, some families don't have enough money for food (In 2011 16.7 million children lived in food-insecure households en.wikipedia.org/.../Hunger_in_the_United_States a large proportion of homeless people have at least some paid work.

The rich people who got rich aren't the biggest problem (although they ways they get there are often morally dubious), it's the second and third generations of their families, like the Waltons and the Fords that are. Work hard, be lucky and get rich is the American Dream, inherit billions and pay people to squeeze all you can out of your tennants, workers and the government isn't, afaics.

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
Oh, please. There is food to anyone in the US who wants it. American poor people are not starving, they are dying of obesity related conditions.

"a large proportion of homeless people have at least some paid work."
Meanwhile, we have 15,000,000 illegal aliens in this country, the vast majority of whom are doing jobs those so-called homeless people refuse to do.

"squeeze all you can out of your tennants, workers and the government "
A landlord never receives more than a tenant is willing to pay. An employer never pays less than an employee is willing to work for. And 70% of what the federal government does is taking money from those who earned it and hand it out to those who did not.

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
thefederalist.com/.../

[goaded]

Looking at the Goodman study, referred to by the federalist link, it does contain little gems like: "it is almost impossible to be poor in America today if you work full-time", while ignoring that it's almost impossible to work full time, especially somewhere like Walmart.

"By 2014 [from 2007], the number of involuntary part-time retail workers had more than doubled, to 1.4 million, even as the total number of retail workers declined to 18.9 million."
www.nytimes.com/.../...art-workers-more-hours.html

You could get a second job, I suppose, but if they both want you at the same time, what do you do?

"A landlord never receives more than a tenant is willing to pay." If that were true, there would be no-one in arrears or evicted for failing to pay their rent.

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
Walmart has more full time employees than any other US company.

There is one little problem with working full time at one company. Obamacare requires anyone working more than 32(?) hours a week at a company with more than 49 people to be offered a medical plan. Therefore, many companies, my own included, do not hire low paid employees full time. But there are plenty that do, like Walmart.

"there would be no-one in arrears or evicted for failing to pay their rent. "
No, these tenants voluntarily greed to pay a certain rent. That they fail to keep agreements does not negate that they agreed to it in the first place.

[goaded]

That's only because Walmart has more employees, 2.3 million, than any other company in the world. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_employers Over half a million of their store employees earned less than $25,000 a year in 2013 www.bloomberg.com/.../more-than-half-of-wal-marts-hourly-workers-make-less-than-25-000

The adjustment to employment you describe sounds like an unintended consequence of the ACA. What would be the effect of Medicare for all, if that was an acceptable replacement for you having to provide a medical plan?

People do sometimes make decisions to get by long enough to make it to the next crisis. You or I would never take a payday loan at hundreds of % interest, but some people have to, to do something like fix their car or buy a cheap bicycle to get to work so they can have another payday.

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
"The adjustment to employment you describe sounds like an unintended consequence of the ACA"
It was unintended by Socialists, but it was loudly predicted by Republicans. I used to offer medical coverage for lower paid full time employees, but it is just too expensive now. An employee who covers self & family costs nearly $1,800 a month. It wasn't that long ago when that cost was under $800. Obamacare not only did nothing to reduce the cost of medical coverage, it actually increased costs and eliminated lower cost options.

Medicare for all does not solve the problem of costs, it merely hides costs in taxes. And if my taxes go up, employees get paid less.

If someone takes out a payday loan, they ought to think about giving up their cell phone and tv.

[goaded]

Really? The US congress is full of socialists, now? The ACA is the 1990's Republican proposal for healthcare.

How do you get called into your crappy job if you don't have a phone? How much can you get for a second hand TV these days, $20, $30?

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
There are plenty of Socialists in Congress. A few even call themselves that.

A phone costs what, $100/mo? TV is what, $85 to $150/mo?

And how many lower class people buy lottery tickets? It is nothing but a tax for being bad at math, and a lot of lower class people are bad at math.

[goaded]

They really cost that much over there? My phone was less than £100, and the cost of phone calls is 9c per minute or text, pay as you go, free to receive calls or texts. I guess if you never make calls, they'll cut you off eventually, but it would be a matter of months, if not years. I have another, data, contract for about $7 a month.

Broadcast terrestrial and satellite TV is mostly free, you can pay for extra channels if you want.

Can you cancel those contracts instantly, without having to pay some kind of fee?

[WalterRadio]

@goaded
This is a bit dated, but still holds validity.
www.heritage.org/.../air-conditioning-cable-tv-and-xbox-what-poverty-the-united-states

Note this "the typical poor American had more living space than the average European" Let that sink in.

It is not that people can't have a cheaper alternative, such as a landline only for $15/mo, but that poor people choose more expensive purchases because they can.

I was looking at a house for sale with a Section 8 tenant. This is a woman on welfare who is paying about $200/month for a house to rent and the government pays $1,400 a month. She had a new $45,000 Cadillac.

[goaded]

Why do you trust the Heritage Foundation? They invented Obamacare! :)

Misrepresentations upon misrepresentations (not to say lies)...
From your link:
"The typical poor American has considerably more living space than does the average European"

The source for that "statistic", itself the Heritage Foundation, actually says:
"The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)"

Population density in Vienna is 11,205/sq mi, London: 14,500/sq mi. The U. S. as a whole? 85/sq mi. Germany has 600/sq mi., the UK 700.

A one bedroom flat in London costs £200,000 (that's not a luxury appartment, a two bed luxury place is $5 million).

You can buy a house in Bulgaria for a few thousand Euros, if you want.

[madhatters4]

this is corrupt crony capitalism at work... it's terrible

[ausmaster]

This is why I left the democratic side, all they talk about is these kinds of charts and not WHY this exists. Like WHY does this happen? Its not because of fucking "corrupt capitalism". Socialism doesn't fucking work when you're giving no incentive to grow. there's no more supply and demand. These people are wealthy because they have CATERED TO THE DEMAND. People rip on Walmart so much but why? Walmart has become successful because they have become so very successful at supplying a demand to the population. They're giving you easier access to products. To become wealthy, you have to actually CONTRIBUTE to society. Like thats why Engineering degrees pay so much compared to a fucking Walmart job, Engineers contribute significantly more per person than people at Walmart. It doesn't mean that people working at Walmart are not important. I worked at Walmart, they're all important in making the mashine run. But there has to be a person who carefully designs and make sure that the mashine is long term going to succeed.

[Benedek38]

While I agree that income inequality/unacceptable distribution of income is a large problem in the US (among many other places), I would urge people against listening to people about their idea of a "perfect" distribution. The fact is that most people simply have no idea of the implications of saying they like this distribution better than another. It's like asking people how thick they think a pillar holding a bridge should be. Chances are unless you are asking a bunch of engineers or physicist, the answer will be incorrect, and the bridge would collapse.

In short, leave economy to the economists.

Again, there is definitely a problem, I am not trying to sweep it under the rug.

I'd like to mention something though. People would gladly use this video to tell you "we need to raise taxed!". My question would be - do you? Really?
www.nationalpriorities.org/.../
In 2015, about 16% of the total tax money went to the military, 27.4% to healthcare, and 33.3% to social security and unemployment.

Keep in mind, this is only the FEDERAL tax, this doesn't include the local taxes.

Tell me again, why does the US need that large military? The total annual spending is almost three times as much as in China, and 10 times as much as Saudi Arabia (which is kind of scary actually).
OK, I take it back, you guys DEFINITELY need that military spending.

But I am somehow certain reducing the unemployment rate could drastically decrease the spendings, and there would be place for improvement in other places.

I am not an economist, by a long shot, but without wanting to make premature judgments, I think Trump's attempts at limiting the unemployment rate are good.

[RegularTK421]

The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. I don't worry or stress over it, I mean compared to any other time period in history the working class have it made. We are no longer restricted by class, title or nobility. We have more security, housing, conveniences, and opportunities to rise than at any other period in history. Just because 1 percent of Americans control the vast majority of wealth, doesn't mean you can't amass more wealth than you were born into. It boils down to hard work, wisdom, discipline, and strategic planning. If you blow your weekly checks on bullshit every week, you will never gain wealth. If you focus on how unfair life is, you will never improve your own life. Just like there are athletes who I will never be in better shape than, does that mean I shouldn't workout? Should I neglect my health and fitness levels because life is unfair, and they are more talented than I will ever be? So because Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, etc have abundant wealth I shouldn't aspire to amassing my own personal fortune? It is not impossible to become a millionaire over the course of one's lifetime. People just need to focus on life and financial fundamentals. Remain as debt free as possible, maintain a high credit score, own rather than lease or finance if possible. Work hard, and save. It takes time and consistency.

[Samaroundtheworld]

Good for them. The richest 1% keep growing their money despite contributing more in individual income taxes than the bottom 90% combined.
Not to mention the value they bring in companies started, employees hired.. etc.
Whoever thinks the super rich are a drag on the economy is delusional. They are an incredible boon.
I live in an area that has some of the richest zip codes in America. Many of my friends make a 6 figure incomes in the SERVICE industry! Apparently the uber wealthy don't like mowing grass, cleaning pools, or landscaping.

[JudgmentDay]

That dream is all but a lie, some might get lucky and be wealthy and do very well, but it won't happen to the majority or a significant percentage of the population. With the way how things are terribly unbalanced in regards to wealth distribution all the more reason I'd call it quits on things such as having a family and children long time ago, because I already knew it was all a big lie anyway.

[Naydyonov]

1) Crony Capitalism.
2) America does really just have many businessmen who are making money selling services and products around the globe and buying things in the US.
3) The average person is still richer now than at any time in history.
4) The American dream is possible in an economy that is good for small businesses, government interference through regulations, higher minimum wage, taxes, etc, affect small businesses more than large ones, thus pushing them that much closer to bankruptcy.

[goaded]

Don't most of those regulations have exceptions for small companies? If not, why do you think that is?

[Naydyonov]

@goaded Probably many do, but 1 new regulation on top of 100 regulations is harder for the small guy to deal with than 2 new regulations on top of 300 regulations.
The biggest thing being of course related to minimum wage for most of these businesses, but things like this don't help:
«To combat discrimination and wage disparities, the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission wants to require businesses with 100 or more employees to report how many employees they have in different gender and ethnic groups, and how much those employees are paid. This could lead to more time spent on paperwork and potentially lead to even more obstacles for businesses that have legitimate reasons for potential pay disparities.»

I'm all for statistics and would love to see an automatic system in place in which in mere minutes the person can register a variety of stats, but this one is very specific and doesn't really help anyone.

[BellePepper]

But rich people neeeeeed those tax cuts because they’re supposed to be the only ones who can move the economy.

It’s so stupid. The Walmart kids are worth millions if not billions of dollars but they made that money by finding every possible way to screw over their workers. Then they pass the expense of providing for them onto the taxpayer while they hold onto their money! It’s WRONG

[lllAndrewlll]

There is an exponential corrilation between IQ and wealth. It seems the two main factors contributing to wealth are IQ and ambition/hardwork. Wealth disparities provide great incentive for people to earn more. The reason tax cuts are made mainly on the 20% and above are due to the fact that the mid to low class don't pay much taxes in the first place. Increasing taxes dont work as in these increases in taxes less wealth is being created as people have less incentive to work and provide serveses/make prducts althogh the government takes in a bigger percentage of the populations money there is less wealth and the government ends up taking in less tax revenue.

[WalterRadio]

You are far more educated than your age would suggest.

[TripleAce]

Unfortunately the system is designed that way...
the more at the top you are the faster you climb up...

but to go from a wealth of 20k a year to 250k cash in the bank seems almost impossible for some

[WalterRadio]

That is because "some" is stupid and lazy.

I went from zero to where now I literally have over a mil in cash in the bank, actually, across several banks since the FDIC limit is $250k.

[goaded]

Of course they do, the population density is 85/sq m, vs. 188/sq m. How does having 10 square metres rather than 5 to eat your cheap meal in make a difference?

Really? A Cadillac Queen? I thought that was so 1980's. There are people who take the piss in all societies; there are TV series about them getting caught.

You didn't answer my question about the contracts.

[goaded]

Oops! @WalterRadio, the other answer is better, but understates the price of a normal flat in London by 50-100%+

[monkeynutts]

Unfortunately wealth is distributed based on the pre prescribed value of a product or service, what regulates this value is supply and demand, if you are at the bottom of the pile chances are you are lazy, don't have the ability to accumulate wealth, eg, disabled people, don't have an interest in accumulating wealth. You can't be at the bottom and expect people to give you money, money you never earned in the first place.

[Landshrk0068]

Everyone makes their own opportunities to succeed or fail. I was the son of a middle class government employee. I started my own company, made money, sold company, now I don't work and will never have to work, barring a collapse of society. No one helped me along the way. I did it on my own.

[Pineapple_Boy]

I don't have a problem with this. It's called survival of the fittest. If you work hard/smart you're going to succeed. You can't expect to drop out of school , be lazy, lack ambition and still expect to earn a million dollars per year. Think about this logically. If we all were rich, who's going to do the minimum wage jobs?

[TripleAce]

huh? work hard and smart makes you succeed... oh dear, you surely have no idea how many people do that and have no succeeded lol
You also do realize many billionaires never went to school...

[Pineapple_Boy]

@TripleAce could you name one lazy billionaire who isn't ambitious?

If they haven't succeeded, they weren't very smart.

[TripleAce]

Most billionaires or millionaires had an advantage going in...
a lot of them are very influential people naturally.. being at the right time at the right place... with certain advantages

think about how many people try hard everyday
to make it big everything has to be on your side
hard work
luck
perfect timing
risks
help

etc

[Pineapple_Boy]

@TripleAce so what if some people have an advantage? You have to focus on yourself and NOT others. I'm sure when/if you have kids, they are going to have more advantages in life than you had when you were a kid. That's how life works. The US is a free market. You can open a small business tomorrow, and in 2 years or less be rich af if the business succeeds.

[WalterRadio]

@TripleAce
I am VHNW. What was my "advantage"? My mother made a stupid decision to divorce my father when I was a child. I went from middle class to poor, growing up in rural Kentucky. For spending money in middle school, I didn't get an allowance. I picked up cans and bottles from the roadside for extra money.

I made the decision to work very hard and stay out of trouble. When I was 15, I also made the decision I was going to become rich. And so I did.

[Anonymous]

I work hard for what I have. Exactly how much more of that do you feel I should be giving away to people not willing to put in the work for it? One of the biggest reasons for this "unequal wealth distribution" is the very visible unequal work people are willing to do. Everybody wants to make a million dollars but not everybody is willing to put forth the effort necessary to get it.

[BellePepper]

Go tell a poor person working three jobs to support themselves they don’t work hard enough.

[WalterRadio]

@BellePepper
EVERY poor person in the US is poor because of bad decisions that person made.

Common ones are dropping out of high school, getting pregnant without being in a financially stable marriage, getting a divorce with kids, being addicted, being criminal, living beyond one's means.

I have never met an exception.

[Myrdices]

The best part is eventually the concept of money will collapse when people realize that scraps of paper and metal are worthless to survival and the only reason people are so indentured to it is because civilians are groomed to desire wealth by the world we live in

[NearlyNapping]

I couldn't care less about the wealth distribution. It has no bearing except maybe decreasing my taxes. The rich are basically sugar daddies. I don't understand why people want to eliminate them when it would just make their taxes go up.

[Gerpar]

I think it's fine. People are rewarded dependant on the effort they put in. If you look at the most successful people (Elon Musk, Bill gates, etc), they put in a lot of effort to get where they are. Except for people who are born rich, screw them, they're always arrogant and don't understand the value of money like people who worked for it.

[curiousnorway]

Is it fair that some people have to live in bad conditions because they're unable to work? Medical conditions is a thing and can affect people this way.

[BlueCoyote]

There are lots of people who put in lots of work who don't get rich.
Also, Bill Gates might have worked hard, that's a fair point. Here's the thing though: For a regular middle-class American, say a teacher or a nurse or even a doctor, it would literally take tens of thousands of years of non-stop working to earn as much money as Bill Gates owns. Can we agree that Bill Gates didn't work 50,000 times harder than other people? Because that notion is just absurd.

[rjroy3]

@BlueCoyote I wouldn't argue that he worked 50,000 times harder. But I would argue he invested his time and effort more intelligently and more efficiently on top of working harder. Go back to his story, whether you believe it entirely or not. He worked for years without taking days off vs a teacher with a set amount of hours, summer break and vacations off. Investing his time and efforts into something big, that could grow and would eventually pay out vs working for a set amount of salary year to year and possibly an agreed upon pay increase for years worked at the job.

Working harder isn't everything, but to argue somehow it's not fair that his wealth far exceeds others is just inherently flawed. Because he's getting paid for what he produces and is taking a calculated risk in doing so. Because of his early success it becomes easier and easier, because the more money you have the more you can invest to grow more.

[curiousnorway]

Some people are also born into wealth and hasn't worked very hard, while some hardworking people stays poor.

[RegularTK421]

Not only that, but Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have made a much larger impact on the U. S economy, and the overall wealth of this country than an average teacher, nurse or doctor. True they have amassed great wealth, but the results of their efforts transformed our way of life for the better.

[rjroy3]

How is being born into wealth relevant?
Some families build an empire so their family in future generations dint HAVE to work. All of them eventually do, because doing nothing drains your soul

[Catholicgirl22]

Wealthy people don't spend money and if they do it's as investment or to avoid paying tax. Money makes money. Meanwhile the average person is marketed into spending their money foolishly by consumer culture.

[Pens4life]

The one percent stacks the deck and benefits from it. Rich oligarchs will continue to run the country until we restrict them from doing so

[WalterRadio]

"The one percent stacks the deck and benefits from it"
How do we do that?

Every dollar I have, someone voluntarily gave to me.

The truth is that we worked harder than everyone else, we are far less likely to have made bad decisions, and we took risks that few people are willing to do.

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio Firstly, I doubt that you are part of the 1%, so stop including yourself in that category. Secondly, I never said the 1% didn't work hard to get to that position. I understand and completely agree with you that the 1% does work hard/harder than everyone else. But from my experience looking at the 1%, and how they steer legislation, bribe govt officials, do shady business practices and outsource I will stand by my statement that the richest of the rich in the country have stacked the deck against the country.

[Pens4life]

@WalerRadio Look at Amazon for example, they pay their workers $1,000 above the poverty line and tell their workers to apply for govt assistance so AMAZON can receive tax breaks from the govt for employing people on govt assistace, force the workers to pee in bottles in order to make times for delivery, dont install air conditioners in their facilities b/c its cheaper to drive a worker that has passed out from heat exhaustion to the hospital than it is to install and maintain a working A/C unit in their factories. THATS the type of 1% BULLSHIT that stacks the deck against Americans. And it will only get worse if we dont put some sort of restrictions on businesses

[WalterRadio]

" I doubt that you are part of the 1%"
You can cast away your doubt. I made over $1M last year, I have already made over $400k so far this year, and it is only May. I own a business and Trump has been very good for business.

"steer legislation, bribe govt officials"
It is the politicians and their close friends that you have to be concerned about, like how the Clintons went from making $40,000 a year plus $100k on a $1,000 insider trading deal to well over a hundred million dollars; or how wealthy Bernie Sanders' wife has become since he became senator. These people exist, but they are tiny in number.

"outsource"
What is wrong with outsourcing? It makes things cheaper for consumers.

"the richest of the rich"
We ordinary millionaires are not the richest of the rich. Those are Gates, Buffet, Bezos, etc. They also deserve their wealth because they made people's lives better.

[WalterRadio]

"Look at Amazon"
EVERY Amazon employee voluntarily accepted the job and can quit and go someplace else at any time. It isn't our business how other people choose to associate with each other. Their working conditions are certainly more pleasant than picking vegetables in the 110 deg California sun.

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio I dont care how much you made last year. You could very well be in the 1%. doesn't matter to me. If you are congratulations b/c thats where I am aiming to be. The 1% clearly steers legislation. Im not excusing people like Hillary Clinton/Barrack Obama or any of them that take corporate money. They are all filth and need to be out of office. Outsourcing and bad trade deals have cost this country BILLIONS a year. NAFTA and the TPP are just a couple that I can think of. Yes, you are correct when you say outsourcing makes things cheaper for the consumer, but in the same breath, when the general consumer doesn't have any money, its hard for them to afford anything

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio I am not referring to you. Yes I understand that the 1% encompasses generally people who make 250,000 + per yr. But The 1% that Im speaking of are the Bezoses and the Goldman Sachs and the Koch bros.

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio Yes, Amazon employees voluntarily work there, but at the same time there should be a ethical responsibility from the company to share its profits with its employees. Amazon does no such thing. Even with ZERO federal taxes paid, they are refusing to help their workers.

[WalterRadio]

"I dont care how much you made last year."
Apparently you do, since you doubted it.

"Outsourcing... BILLIONS a year"
It has saved YOU personally money. If you don't like it, then don't buy anything imported. You can choose to pay more. But be careful, Made in America does NOT mean Made BY Americans. You send more money to Mexico by buying a shirt made in Los Angeles than if the shirt were imported.

"The 1% that Im speaking of are the Bezoses"
That is where you and many others have a problem. You say "1%", but you mean the top 0.001%. There is a bigger difference between them and me, a lowly millionaire than there is between me and a homeless man. Stop pointing your finger at the likes of me when you mean the ultra rich.

"the company to share its profits with its employees"
Any employee that wants a share of the profits is free to buy shares. That they choose not to is proof that they have other priorities that they would rather spend their money on.

[WalterRadio]

"they are refusing to help their workers."
They get paid.

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio I understand that you are different than Bezos, I am referring to the.001% of the country. I should have been more clear with that. You are correct when you say companies can pay their employees in shares. But most of these American workers need the money for stuff like rent or food. Shares of company and stock is for people with expendable income. Most of the workers have zero expendable income and Amazon does not pay them a living wage even though most of these people are working 50+ hours a week. Trickle down economics would insinuate that the workers would get paid more as the company does better. Full time Wal-Mart and Amazon workers dont get an increase in pay when the companies do better. Amazon had a billion dollar increase in net income from 2016-2017 and there wasn't a raise to fulltime workers. This obviously isn't illegal, but ethically you should be paying the people doing all the grunt work and pushing your company to be the #1 shipping company in the Country

[WalterRadio]

"I am referring to the.001%"
Then say that, don't say "1%" like you did. My income group, $180k to $3M/yr pay the highest percent of our income than any other group. We are your doctors, lawyers, and entrepreneurs, we are the best educated and the hardest working.

"But most of these American workers need the money for stuff like rent or food."
That is their choice. They could cut rent in half with a roommate, by 3/4ths by getting three. I respect people's freedom enough to let them make their own economic choices in life, but I insist that they live with the consequences of their choices.

"Most of the workers have zero expendable income"
You mean disposable income. But that isn't true. They have cable tv, internet, cell phones, cars, air conditioning, chips, beer, and often cigarettes. A poor person in the US, not even one with a steady job at Amazon or Walmart, has more living space than the average European. Think about that.

[WalterRadio]

"living wage"
That is a make-believe term invented as propaganda to get votes. The reality is that if you aren't dying of starvation, you are making a living wage. The best definition of poverty that crosses nations and urban/rural environments is that a person is poor if he spends over 50% of his income on food. Who have you ever met that spends 50% of his income on food?

"people are working 50+ hours a week."
50 hours a week is nothing. I worked over 70 when I was in college and over 80hr/wk every week for YEARS when I started a company.

"Full time Wal-Mart"
They just did.

"there wasn't a raise to fulltime workers"
What was the increase in their healthcare costs and payroll taxes? Employee compensation has increased over the awful Obama years, but it came in the form of increased payroll taxes and healthcare, both influenced by the federal government.

[WalterRadio]

"ethically you should be paying"
Ethically, an employer should pay employees what they both agreed to.

"pushing your company to be the #1"
Why is that? You can't will your company into success. You get there by providing people what they want. Consumers voluntarily give Amazon money because consumers have decided they want what Amazon is offering. When was the last time YOU bought something from Amazon? For me it was last Monday. When was the last time YOU bought something from Sears? For me, it was about 20 years ago. Sears was the #1 mail order company in the world. You could order everything from toothpicks to a ready to assemble house at one time.

It all happens by individuals making voluntary choices. Millions of people decided not to buy from Sears, but to buy from Amazon. Many thousands of people decided to work for Amazon. And Sears decided many thousands no longer would work for them.

As long as all agreements are voluntary, it is good.

[Pens4life]

@WalterRadio Look, Im done debating w you. You obviously are extremely knowledgeable and have strong views on this subject. I totally respect and admire some of these views. The only thing I dont agree to is your view on the ethical responsibility of the company. Everything else looks very solid. I was wrong about the Wal-Mart pay increase, I will admit people do have the ability to room with and cut down on expenses that should not be within their means like cigs or Beer. I will also admit that grouping you in with the top.001% was wrong. I was assuming you were not b/c I have nothing but your word to go off of lol. You are on a random app on the internet so there isn't much I can do.

[WalterRadio]

Thanks for listening.

It is a bit unfair. I had enough economics courses, including graduate level courses, to make it a minor and I have the practical experience of an MBA. I have even given university lectures on entrepreneurship.

Free markets raise the standard of living for everyone faster than any other system. Government's role should be to assure information is available to consumers, enforce agreements, pragmatic safety, and prevent monopolies, but not to introduce transaction costs or otherwise interfere with pricing.

Minimum wage, sales tax, tariff, protectionist licensing all result in something other than equilibrium price and that means less than optimal economic efficiency.

Instead of being jealous of the 0.001%, how about focusing on reducing government imposed transactions costs (which are severe in housing and healthcare), so prices go down. If you make $10/hr, does it matter whether you get a 10% raise or the cost of living goes down by 10%?

[oldoldold]

Ahhh America's is quietly becoming a third world country

[0112358]

I’m more concerned with income distributions then wealth. That said I think a $10 million exemption on estate taxes is probably sufficient.

[Aynsof]

The sun king "worked hard" for his unequal wealth distribution too...

[jackofhearts69]

I think if you dnt have it it bc you dnt want it or you been extremely unlucky... Like myself. Bad choices and lost oppurtunities are something of a curse..

[goaded]

So we could all be billionaires, if we just wanted to be? I doubt it.

[Waffles731]

Yeah its fucked up

[curiousnorway]

Do you think welfare like universal health care, disability benefits, improved pensions, unemployment benefits and higher minimum wages would improve the situation?

[Waffles731]

Maybe. Probably.

[lllAndrewlll]

Curiosity norway, yes your exactly right! if we introduced these things by heavily taxing the rich (some of which we already have) there would be much less wealth disparity but the thing is that the more of these things we have we start to go into the realms of economic socialism and then communism in which there is much less wealth disparity but everyone is poor due to the fact that the closer we get to socialism then communism the less incentive there is to work and become rich throgh providing value to the economy and provide servises and make product. taxing the rich very heavily simply does not work. An example of this is sweden whose population enjoys better standereds of living and is better and its citizens are richer than the US and has more relaxing tax brackets set upon the rich.

[goaded]

@lllAndrewlll According to this, individual taxation levels reach over 60% in Sweden, 54.4% in San Francisco (the highest taxed place in the US, presumably), en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_countries_by_tax_rates

[curiousnorway]

@lllAndrewlll, Norway, Sweden and Denmark are social-democratic countries. They're not communism and hasn't become it yet either. The system works very well.

[Anonymous]

It's a rich get richer society. The funny thing is the poor like it that way!

[fucjyou]

I think you should get a fucking job and get off welfare and make your own fucking money instead of taking mine

[curiousnorway]

Not every jobs are paying well, not everyone gets a job and not everyone have a good health. Medical conditions are a thing. So not everyone can work.

[hellacray]

I enjoy the kind of books with no words.

[vald9inches]

Great video thanks for that link!!!

[Anonymous]

It's our aim and ideology

[Anonymous]

It's big rich dreams