Justifiable Conquest
Ruthless Genocide
Typical War
Other
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America VS Native Tribes: Justifiable Conquest, Ruthless Genocide, Typical War, Other?
It was Justifiable Conquest ( as justifiable as any conquest), Ruthless Genocide and Typical War. Basically it was no different than anything that had gone on elsewhere in the world before of since. It's hard today to think of a country that wasn't conquered through "Justifiable" Conquest and Ruthless Genocide andTypical War. England was conquered by the Romans then by the Saxons, then by the Vikings and then by the Normans.
France was conquered by the Romans, then by the vandals, then by the Goths, then by the franks.
Italy was conquered by the Romans, then by the vandals, then by the Goths, then by the Lombards and then by Byzantines and then by the Frank's.
Spain was conquered by the Romans taking it from the Iberian, Celts, Greeks and carthagianians. Then the vandals came, then the Goths and then the Muslims conquered it and then the spainish reconsidered it.
The native Americans fought each other endlessly. For instance in the black hills of South Dakota Arikara arrived in AD 1500, and then were conquered by the Cheyenne, they were pushed out by the Crow, they were pushed out by the Kiowa and then they by Pawnee until The Lakota pushed them out on 1776 and the US goverment took it from them in 1889. The spread of old world diseases brought from Europe killed a hell of a lot more native Americans than bullets ever did, how else could you explain how the spainish with 600 soldiers, 15 horsemen and 15 cannons was able to defeat the Aztecs who vastly outnumbered them with some the best warriors in history.
South and central America too had large powerful civilisations that spent their time waring and conquering.
I really don't see a difference between what the US goverment did and any other nation in the history of the world except that the US goverment was much more successful than most though the millions of native Americans dying from the bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, diphtheria, influenza, leprosy, malaria, measles, pertussis, scarlet fever, smallpox, typhoid fever, typhus, yaws and yellow fever. Next time some anti vaxer starts bumming on vacations remind him of what happens to the native Americans.
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I don't know how anyone could not possibly see this as a ruthless genocide.
Europeans used to be frighteningly good at this kind of thing.
- 431 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
First of all, should be call it "The United Kingdom VS Native Tribes"
English people landed on new land and decided to kill the indigenous people. And the result of that is America
Anyway. Yes Genocide. By every definition of the term.
BUT... and this might an unpopular opinion but it's somewhat a normal development in history.
Before native Americans christian Europe fought to rid themselves of pagan tribes. And before that the roman empire conquered most of Europe and the middle east. And what have the Romans ever given us right?
And looking at the American continent before they were defeated by the Spanish, the Mayans terrorized the continent by enslaving and sacrificing surrounding tribes.
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Natural behaviour. Animals fight for territory all the time, we are, or at least were, no different. That's not meant as a justification by the way.
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- 10.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
any suggestion that it wasn't ruthless or genocide would be a huge insult and an absolute disregard of the facts.
- 5.7K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Several accounts of cruelty and murder include Spaniards testing the sharpness of blades on Native people by cutting them in half, beheading them in contests and throwing Natives into vats of boiling soap. There are also accounts of suckling infants being lifted from their mother’s breasts by Spaniards, only to be dashed headfirst into large rocks.
Bartolome De Las Casas, a former slave owner who became Bishop of Chiapas, described these exploits. “Such inhumanities and barbarisms were committed in my sight as no age can parallel,” he wrote. “My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature that now I tremble as I write.”
In the early years of Columbus’ conquests there were butcher shops throughout the Caribbean where Indian bodies were sold as dog food. There was also a practice known as the montería infernal, the infernal chase, or manhunt, in which Indians were hunted by war-dogs.
These dogs—who also wore armor and had been fed human flesh, were a fierce match for the Indians. Live babies were also fed to these war dogs as sport, sometimes in front of horrified parents. -
The Indians were killing and raping and raiding each other for centuries before Europeans came to the New World.
The Noble Savage myth is just that, a myth. They weren't living in balance with nature, they had already hunted the buffalo to near extinction themselves before white hunters came and finished the job in just a few short years. The buffaloes would have been gone in a few more years anyway, whites just sped the process up. - 337 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Did the natives fight back?
Yes.
Did they commit attrocities, too?
Yes.
Was there a moral framework to regulate war, based in which we could pinpoint warcrimes?
No.
Was it a brutal mess?
Definitely.
But ultimately, it was just a war, and anyone saying otherwise is a hypocrite. - 1.7K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Native Americans first started dying off when the Vikings arrived before the year 1000. Even though the few Vikings that arrived either died or off or left, the diseases they brought their not. The diseases continued to permeate the continent for the next five hundred years until Columbus showed up in 1492 and the Dutch, French, Portuguese, Spanish, and English showed up after that in the 1500s and 1600s. This "second wave" of Europeans with their diseases was eventually the final nail in the coffin. The reduction in Native American population from the year 1000 to 1600 is a major reason why Europeans (and eventually Americans) from 1600 and on were able to transverse the continent so relatively quickly and easily.
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It was a war. People act like the Natives were innocent, peace loving people and that the evil asshole white Americans came over and stole their land. In reality before white Americans got there Native American tribes warred with each other over land, they'd scalp each other, they'd take prisoners, and there's evidence to suggest that sometimes they ate their enemies. Some of them even owned slaves. They were just as if not more brutal than the white Americans, they just lost the war.
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I like to think of civilizations as their own unique organisms. They start off young and energetic expanding and incorporating all they can until they get to the maturity of Empire. Over time in the Empire phase the conquerors and conquered begin to blend together forming an ethno genesis until they reach old age where through various factors the Empire dies leaving the new people's to begin the cycle again. Rinse lather repeat.
What happened to the native Americans is tragic however it is the natural course of human existence. There are plenty groups of people who have shared the same fate, from the victims of the Arab, Mongolian, Bantu, Aztec and Roman conquests plus various others. We can always hope and wish for a more peaceful future but if I was a betting man I would put it all in that there will be plenty more genocides for us to mourn in the future. Remember peace is a desire, war is a fact; and history has never paid heed to human desires and ideals. -
illegal immigration. wait I mean legal. I meant illegal. I mean... ohh I get it now. we came here without asking permission took the land and the resources. now that other people are doing the same thing suddenly it is illegal. good thing our country was apparently found on hypocrisy otherwise this could be overly boring.
- 1.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
It was a genocide, no doubt about it... America was built by people who were running away from the law in their original countries (mostly west European).
Currently, they are ruining lives all over the world, since the end of the 80's and beginning of the 90's, considering I'm from Croatia, ex Yugoslavia is an excellent example. -
There isn't anything much for debate here... a technologically advanced civilization conquering a lower one for the sake of land and resources. It's a typical war but not ruthless genocide as I think that is mainly perpetrated through radical ideologies
It even happens in modern times when USA invaded Afghanistan
However if ISIS invades USA and defeats it, then that would constitute ruthless genocide -
Typical war. The tribes were warring with eachother, but the white man just came over and was better at it. Native American warfare was kinda tame I guess, compared to the "total destruction" warfare of the Europeans. Of course everything else that happened, is completely fucked like the Indian Removal Act and whatnot.
- 309 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
America? You mean Europe vs Native tribes.
Ruthless genocide and land thieves.
America was built on genocide, criminality and slavery. -
I'd say it's a justifiable conquest. It's not like they're worse off though... they were living in teepees half naked and scalping each other, now they own multi million dollar casinos. Sure, their communities suck, but that's not our fault.
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it's always funny when people try to paint this picture of the "innocent natives" and the brutally mean "white man" coming to destroy them. History shows that the native tribes were constantly at war with EACH OTHER. They were far more brutal to the women and prisoners than the Spanish when they moved in. But I know certain people are trying to change that factual history in the books as we speak.
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Also, not “America” Europeans. This happened everywhere. From Australia, to Canada, to the US. And I voted genocide
- 533 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
People need to look at it from the 1500-1600s. I'm actually surprised it wasn't more violent. Shows how humans have come when comparing 1600 to 1100 Europe. Justifiable Conquest.
- 621 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
Combination of all 3. People need to stop acting like the continent being taken over was something unique. That kind of thing had been going on all over the world long before the new world was discovered. Not saying it was a good thing, but it wasn't anything uncommonly bad given the context of history up until then.
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Definitely ruthless genocide. Their land was stolen, their lives were lost. I mean, they were kicked off their own land. It's fd up.
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I think you have to take historical context into consideration at the time it was colonisation or pioneering, today it would ruthless genocide or exploitation.
- 1.2K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
A hell of a lot of it was due to disease, up to 90% mortality in some areas. The Black Plague? A mere 30%.
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