Not the past waves of feminism but present day feminism.
On one hand you have people who believe modern day feminism is necessary and that women are still oppressed in many ways.
On the other you have people who believe it's unnecessary as women have the same rights as men now and that modern-day Feminists are making a big deal out of nothing.
I know I've posted this question before but I want to see if opinions have changed at all. My opinion is still the same. I think feminism could still achieve things as there are still issues that both women and men face but the movement seems to only be concerned with things that aren't actual issues.
I'm open to changing my mind if you have compelling arguments.
Also, on my old post I was surprised to see that there were no feminists willing to defend their movement but there was one female dislike on every anti feminist reply which I admittedly found kinda funny. Please don't be afraid to express your opinion, I'd like to hear all sides to the argument.
Feminism is necessary but I am not a feminist.
Feminism is necessary and I am a feminist.
Feminism is unnecessary.
Feminism could still do good but the movement is focused on things that aren't actual issues
Feminism is misandry. It's a man-hating movement. It has absolutely nothing with equality. Women have more rights than men in first world countries. And very unfair rights. Don't believe me? Watch the best documentary ever made called: "The Red Pill". It will explain everything that feminists and liberals are hiding from you. And guess what. It's made by a woman who used to be a feminist. There are many more clips on her YouTube channel that are not included in the 2-hour film. Your mind will change if you actually watch it. No prejudice before starting. Give it a shot.
I voted for option 4. The entire notion of feminism isn't redundant and there are issues for women to address, just as there are issues for men to address. The kind of frankly embarrassing behaviour that radical feminism tends to incorporate does nothing for either sex and certainly does nothing for relations between the sexes which are vital. Any movements which explicitly seek to create animosity between the sexes rather than to bring them together are entirely counter productive for a peaceful and productive society.
Is this about feminism in the first world or the third? I completely support feminism in the third world. I only have a problem with the first. Women have rights in most of the first world yet first world feminists actvthey they don't. Plus in my opinion there are many men's issues that as just as, maybe even more important than some women's issues.
You can still send me the links, I'll check them out. I just wanted to explain my take on the issue.
Right so you are aware that it's not a wage gap. There is a difference in income but not in wages. A male nurse makes no more than a female nurse.
If it was so much cheaper to just hire women why wouldn't they just do that? Why would an employer pay more to get a man when you can get a woman and pay her 70% of what a man's earning
because there is no "wage gap". Women tend to leave the workforce due to pregnancy or just wanting to be a housewife or stay at home mom. All very worthwhile efforts. But in doing that, the stats tank when doing comparisons.
@MlleCake Okay. You are aware there's a thing called the "Equal Pay Act" if you get underpaid compared to your male colleagues you can sue the company.
As I said, why not hire women if they're cheaper :)
Saying I am incorrect is also not a counter argument :)
Why it's not disclosed is a matter of professionalism.
Which facts? It's a fact that the wage gap is a myth. The wage gap is the earnings of men + the earning of women divided by the population.
The wage gap theory doesn't take into account: Women tend to focus on family life, women tend to work lower skill jobs, men tend to be more competitive in work spaces (this is actually a biological factor due to testosterone) and there's many more factors.
Fun fact, women make up the majority of Harvard undergraduates.
Lmao the first link literally explains what I said.
Men and women get paid the same for the SAME work. But.. due to social, biological, education, ... factors (which is all explained in the link given)
It also explains that the wage gap was measured by a median woman's wage.
"Even as women have accessed more jobs in higher-paying sectors, they are still underrepresented in many of the highest-paying occupations. For example, women only make up less than 1 in 3 chief executives, and just over 1 in 6 software developers." Literally from your link. Thanks for proving my point.
Nope, judging by the domain names it shows the websites are clearly propagated for your own goal. . gov domains mean they've been certified by the government or are government hosted.
@MlleCake The first one was a government funded, non biasted one.
I don't have the time to go through all of the sources to read a bunch of "opinions". In the first link it was pure facts and no personal opinions.
After opening up another one of these links it said exactly the same that women don't get paid differently for the same job, but just work different jobs...
I'm a feminist and an egalitarian, any label that reflects the the fight for and maintenance of equal rights and opportunity among genders, races, sexual orientations and classes is a label that I can be put under.
I feel like some men feel resentment towards feminism because they feel that their issues, especially issues unique to men or that typically affect men, or not being recognized. I think I can relate through my views on racism and revers racism. Racism is a far bigger problem and I respect that 100% but I don't like the lack of attention given to reverse racism. A woman I saw on Dr Phil during a white privilege debate was labelled "another permit patty" by a black man on the street when she actually she wasn't calling the police on the Hispanic marketeer, she was calling for resources to be brought to the Hispanic woman to help her sort out a permit. Doing tasks like that was a part of her job description. The video went viral and she lost her job. She was racially profiled. The man who filmed her made a judgement about her because she was white. I don't want cases of reverse racism to be ignore and I say while being a feminist I don't want issues men face to go ignored either.
There's an ex-feminist who debated with members of the Men's rights movement and said she realized she was being competitive with them in who is the more oppressed gender which was her first step towards losing her feminist label. It began with the factual argument "women are roughly three times more likely to attempt suicide" though men are around three times more likely to die from suicide. Both genders suffer from the same issues, I don't understand why she couldn't be a feminist anymore. Studies show that identical resumes are rated more favorably if they have a man's name and less favorably if they have a woman's name. I hope feminism can work towards getting rid of unconscious gender biases so that when I present my resume, it's viewed for it's merit and not affected by unconscious gender biases. You can be a feminist and be someone who wants to support men at the same time. We all have problems that need attention.
I agree with everything you've said, but as long as you adhere to the terminology "feminism" and "reverse racism", you will be miscommunicating your views to the very people you are "on the same side as". I don't mean to criticize you, just to warn you.
You can't really be a feminist and an egalitarian. Feminism is the belief in equity of the sexes, based on the preconception that women are inherently disadvantaged. Egalitarianism is the belief in equality of the sexes, based on the idea that it doesn't matter who is more advantaged at current because equal opportunity should be promoted indiscriminately, regardless. The two are in direct conflict.
You are also lending strength to "white privilege" ideas by using the phrase "reverse racism". There is no such thing as "reverse racism", only racism--and it is absolutely identically applicable to all races.
@ShortCircuit I disagree. Egalitarism is pro-feminism. "It is generally accepted by egalitarians that feminism falls under egalitarianism and that some feminists identify themselves as egalitarian which under the broadly understood definition of the word is equality for both men and women." - wikipedia (Egalitarianism)
And I don't like the term "white privilege" I avoid that term and just state that I believe that white people will get ahead or get a pass more often than other races. What fuels that believe is that non-white people are serving longer sentences than white people on average for the same circumstance in the crime they committed.
Anyways, thank you for being nice, a lot of men on here just get down right abusive towards me and I try to express my feminist views
The first word that comes into my head on hearing "contemporary feminism", "modern feminism", "third-wave feminism", is the word 'misandry'. This is not to characterise that modern feminism is just misandry, only being honest that this is what comes into my head.
A lot of modern day feminism does appear to me to be misandry though. Misogyny used to be a significant problem, much more than misandry. Now I believe the tables have turned, as modern feminism is rife... with women that seem to just have so much anger, bitterness and hatred towards men as a whole. It's frightening and unsettling.
The gender pay gap is indeed a myth.. more accurately it is circumstantial.
Countries like USA and UK do not need feminism. It is creating a 'them vs. us' attitude which is incredibly counter-productive, dangerous actually. There are much more important issues to concern ourselves with, to unite and concern ourselves with, that will benefit us much more than arguing between the sexes about petty nonsense.
Feminism IS needed in countries such as Iran and Iraq. Some say that the hijab is a symbol of power, that women are proud to wear it and such. It's just not true. In countries which are actually majority Muslim, where Islam is practiced completely, there are usually people who are ACTUALLY oppressed. To be frank many of the people in most of our countries are very privileged and do not know what true oppression is.
In majority Muslim countries, people are oppressed, one example of which is women being forced to dress a certain way, to be modest, but also to have sex whenever the man wants so basically to be raped. Women in some of these countries have been known to remove their hijabs in celebration when liberated.
If feminism in the west was really serious, and genuinely cared about the plight of women, they would be fighting for the rights of their fellow women in other countries. Currently they are making themselves look selfish and inconsiderate, also culturally deprived, unintelligent, incapable of independent thinking. It's just ugly.
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
I am not sure about the west but my country India and the countries need feminism for sure. I don't know what modern day feminism is about. But feminism means EQUAL rights for men and women. I don't understand why some people see it negatively. In most of India and muslim countries feminism is a MUST. Let me tell you why. Women get raped, have acid thrown on their faces, beaten up etc. Girl child doesn't get equal medical attention. Girls have to fight for better education. I am a virgin (and don't believe in casual sex), don't drink or smoke, wear modest clothes and worked hard to become a doctor and even I have faced discrimination for being a woman. My parents have said it on my face that they prefer a boy. I have seen Indian parents who can't afford a third child but give birth to him because they had 2 girls and wanted a son. Female foeticide was rampant until laws were made against it. I am the good Indian girl by all standards still I will struggle to get a nice husband who treats me with respect unlike my dad who used to beat me and my mom. I believe western men treat women with more equality as revealed by my interactions with many of them online. Thus, I think the west doesn't need aggressive feminism. I don't even understand in what way women don't have equality in an average western (esp white) family as the stats reveal that they have a LOT more equality than any average women in the countries like mine. In my country, most women don't even know their rights and accept the suffering. As a doctor I have also seen plenty of cases of crime against women. So, India and Muslim countries definitely need feminism!
The problem isn't men opressing women but human beings opressing each other. In countries like India, we don't have "individual rights" which is what the Western countries base their social, economic and political systems upon. What feminism does is it puts the blame on the men altogether and demonizes masculinity itself, which further fuels the conflict between the genders. What is gravely needed is individual freedom and liberty, NOT one form of collectivism in response to the other.. eg. MGTOW etc..
Trust me, I am deeply sympathetic for women. I have sisters too. Boys are preferred only because they come with confirmed understanding that they will 'have to' bear the responsibility for supporting the family they are born into, even if they want it or not. It is just the culture that has continued. I am in no way implying that women can't provide support to their families. They can and they do. But men don't have much freedom either. What if men also wanted to be free from cultural norms and restrictions? But society including men themselves will laugh at any man who tries to escape and live for himself. If you will think more about it you might see the full picture.
1. Most of the present-day "feminists" are actually femi-nazis. Unfortunately, original feminists are very rare, on the other hand, feminazis (or so called "feminists") are quite numerous. Consequently, there is no "modern day feminism", people can be either real feminists, or they can falsely call themselves "feminists", but they are actually feminazis. Personally, I support feminism, but I don't support femi-nazism. Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. Feminazis are female supremacists and misandrists, therefore, they are not feminists.
2. Everyone can falsely use certain name, title, or a term, but that doesn't make them actual members of the movement, they are just fakes, basically, they are self-righteously pretending. For example, North Koreans call themselves "democrats", Stalinists pretend to be "communists", Talibans claim that their belief is a "religion of peace" etc.
3. In advance, I'll explain facts to uninformed people here, who think that they are "egalitarians": Egalitarianism is not specifically gender related, it's a belief in human equality with respect to social, political, and economic affairs. I support social and economic equality, but I'm not an egalitarian, because I don't support lgbt movement, and I'm against certain political parties, especially those based on extreme right-wing politics.
Were already equal idek what the hell todays feminists are fighting for. Superiority? Yeah, pretty much. "The future is female" ... um no, the future should be men and women BOTH coming together to provide a better future for new generations. The future is not female, you are not better than men and no that does not mean men are better than you. Stop fighting there's nothing to fight for
Please dont get triggered or anything but i think most of them are stupid and feel entitled... Because of what, their gender? They make a big deal with colors and shit. Just let them enjoy it and they'll figure out what they like later. It almost seems like them pushing girls and boys to like different things is just like old gender roles but tweaked... I just think that their taking it to far in some aspects and not focusing on what really matters. A pink toothbrush ain't going to hurt someone but guns but pink toothbrushes seem to get more attention and concern... Sorry i compared it to guns but it's the only thing i could think of for now.
As usual when this comes up. People claiming an political ideology is something it isn't when it comes to it in the name of something it absolutely doesn't act as. People that's bought the manipulations campaigns, mixes feelings in to it, tries to gaslight people that says otherwise what the manipulation campaign says it is.
Tries to use an unreliable info platform (that is easily bought info) as wikipedia to reference what they are saying is correct.
People in general are easily manipulated emotional morons that doesn't use their own eyes and questions everything if it really are, also people feel to much sorry for themselves with poor me, I'm so jealous, I shall have without working for it.
Grow up spoiled brats.
Feminism is the modern name for female brats. What you do talks for it self no matter what you say.
Feminism in general has always been viewed negatively by many because of stereotypes that it holds (i. e. man hating, bra burning, lesbian, etc.) An many ways feminism has grown to include and recognize women of color, men oppression, etc. However, I feel like modern-day feminism can be complicated. Many think that it is sexual liberalism or porn, while others want equal pay or equality in the household. I feel like I believe in the feminism that is equality and social justice for all humans and recognizing that men also have social pressures as well <3
The reason why it's unnecessary is simply because the modern day woman has reached equality.
I mean they fighting for things like "pink tax" and saying two razors, one pink and one blue are sexist because the pink costs more. Even though: a) you can buy the blue one if you don't like it b) they are two completely different products as the blades are angled and sharpened differently. The men's one is also intended for the use on the face, while the women's for legs and other sensitive areas.
Fight for equality for people in the middle east, but you rather support their religion and culture which is the real oppressor
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
The problem with feminism is that there is a vast difference between the concept of feminism and the reality of it. Put differently, the dictionary definition of feminism bears virtually no resemblance to what feminism actually does today. And what feminism does is really the only thing that matters. Feminism is as feminism does.
So, what does feminism do? It fosters an us-versus-them mentality between women and men. It mongers hatred for half the population. It spreads misinformation and false rhetoric to bolster support. It demonizes males. Instead of teaching women they are strong and capable of succeeding on their own, it teaches them they are victims who cannot succeed without the help of the government.
I voted number 4. there are issues out there but feminists need to realize it Is not 1950 anymore. The war in America is won. I'd love to see them re-gear and focus on being a support group offering services information legal support and counseling. Things Like domestic abuse, marriage counselling, sexual health and collage funding. I would hope they would also do these things in such away they don't disadvantage or belittle men or mens issues (we have problems too!). Double standards and aggressive / preditory actions only grow resentment and anger between the sexes and harms relations. It would be real cool if they would worry less about the color and sexual orintation of video game and movie characters and put that energy towards setting up missionary groups to go to other country's where women are facing crushing (oppression / abuse) and exploitative governments and religious practices.
The biggest problem with feminism today is that the most vocal feminists are usually explicitly and shamelessly anti-male, and it seems that their beliefs and and rhetoric are being tolerated by many women.
Historically, feminism had been about the elevation of women to become equal to men. It doesn't seem that way anymore.
It's more of a burden on women and men than anything. I can't take them seriously. I used to consider myself a feminist or supportive of feminism at least, but that ship sailed long ago.
Feminism is nothing but complaining about stupid, irrelevant or non existent problems by privileged women who are doing better in society than even most men are. They also can't seem to agree on anything. Some are pro life and that is contrary to other feminists beliefs. Some don't support women who reveal their body for rhe male gaze to get what they want and that pisses off the sexually "empowered" types. Others refuse to accept trans women as women and others are intersectional.
To me it is bullshit. They want equality but when guys stopped paying for dates or when guys don’t give them seats in trains they get bitchy about men not having chivalry when they demanded for equality in the first place.
I picked "Feminism is necessary but I am not a feminist". The reason I think it's necessary is because of how women are treated, socially and legally, in parts of the world like India and the Middle East. I would agree that there are still a few gender-related issues we face in the west, for both men and women, but I prefer to look at them from an individual perspective as we can't judge things on a systemic or collective level anymore, and I wouldn't say that those issues are so big and important that they require a movement dedicated to them, at least not compared to other political issues.
The problem women have is that the word Feminism is has such a vile meaning to it for men, that the mention of it just shuts most of us down and we move on to someone else. The Feminazi's were so anti men, that most of us men just say "go fuck yourself" when we hear any woman say she is a feminist. It will take a lot of work to change that view. When a guy opens a door for a woman, it is called being a gentleman. We never said you were too weak to do it for yourself.
I'm a feminist, but I think there's a lot of people who ruin the image of it. Everyone has their own beliefs of what it means to be a feminist, but to me it means equality for everyone no matter what their race, gender, religion, or sexuality is.
I encourage everyone to be a feminist, but if you're not I don't really care that much.
@sonnysunshine My family and all of my teachers are right-leaning and not feminists. Nobody is "brainwashing" me. I know how to think for myself, thank you.
@Tilin29 well the left never predicted that most people on social media turn out to have opinions that don’t match theirs. So that’s why they resorted to censorship (look what they did Milo Yiannpolis on Twitter)
The good news that a small but growing segment of women, minorities, young people and even gays are seeing how ridiculous the left has become. It’s all about using victimhood as a currency and crybaby “identity politics”.
Not a minority. Where I live all girls make fun of feminism and hate the newest wave as it ruined their lives by turning them from princesses to having to pay for dates.
@Tilin29 I live in a very Republican community where everyone is white and Christian. Trust me, nearly everyone here is right-leaning lmao I'm in high school not college. Also whatever sorry you think I'm being brainwashed lol. I don't believe in silencing anyone. I just said in my original statement that I don't care if other people aren't feminists.
Bunch of ugly bitter overweight lesbians who feed on each other’s discontent that men don’t find them attractive by forging a unified cult of lies and hatred and indoctrinating young impressionable teenage girls into their disgusting “cause”. There are literally countries where the rape of women is practically legal but feminists are too busy crying like fucking mongrels because some guy is sat in such a manner that he dosent crush his genitals. Fuck feminists.
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