Do you consider yourself conservative or liberal?

[WhiteSandBeach]

Just want to see what kind of people this site attracts. I’m independent. My views aren’t strictly liberal or conservative and I don’t support Trump.

Conservative

Liberal

Other

[nightdrot]

Voted "Conservative," but I always, when I see this kind of question, have to put an asterisk over it. My conservatism is not what Americans typically call conservative. Because what Americans call conservative is, historically speaking, not conservatism but is, rather, classical liberalism.

My conservatism, which for convenience I will call classical or Tory conservatism, traces its intellectual pedigree through Aristotle, St. Thomas Aquinas - and probably most importantly - the 18th century British statesman and political philosopher, Edmund Burke, and also the British Prime Minsiters Benjamin Disraeli and Lord Salisbury.

In an American context, it shows up in the thinking of Alexander Hamilton and then - almost by historical accident, the American Whig Party, and the former Whig turned Republican, Abraham Lincoln. (It is a great historical "what if" as to what the GOP would have looked like had Lincoln lived and the radical Republicans not gained the ascendancy.)

Classical conservatives believe, unlike American conservatives and liberals, that the purpose of government is to answer Aristotle's first questions of politics, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?"

To which classical conservatives respond that the purpose of government is to nurture civic virtue. To reinforce those habits and customs, legitimized by historical usage over time, that make a harmonious and stable social order possible.

Classical conservatives believe in the free market as a tool, rather than an end in itself. They recognize that it is a powerful wealth creator, efficient to some degree, and a guard against an overweening state. However, they believe, as Burke said, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations."

Consequently, classical conservatives support an ameliorative welfare state. (The welfare state was invented by two conservatives - Disraeli and Bismarck.) The purpose such a welfare state being to reconcile the public to the dynamics of a free market economy by alleviating the negative impact of old age, illness and temporary unemployment.

In this they differ from American liberals who see the welfare state as a lever to engineer social transformation. That is, to restructure society according to some abstract a priori vision. Classical conservatives argue that such a vision is ultimately going to be oversimple and will lead to adverse and unintended consequences.

Tories believe that political philosophy should take as it starting point not human reason, but human nature. That political rights are developed through historical usage, and are not abstract pre-existing. Which is to say that they don't deny that such abstract rights exist. Merely that they are of no practical benefit or use in civil society and law. As Burke put it, "Their abstract perfection is their practical defect."

In all this, then, classical conservatives tend to see less difference between American conservatives and liberals than they see between themselves. Albeit that classical conservatives are more likely to align with their American counterparts insofar as American liberals tend to be more deeply hostile to custom and tradition.

[WhiteSandBeach]

Thanks! well explained.

[nightdrot]

Thank you. It is actually a bit more complex than I was able to lay out here. However, seeing as whole books have been written on the subject and I am limited to 4,000 characters, give or take, I am glad you found it helpful.

[Kurαȷ]

I'm moderate/centrist/left-libertarian.
I disagree as well as agree with things on both sides of the spectrum.

My political views are rooted in common sense, and I think that both sides of the spectrum are more ideological rather than logical.

I support rights of small businesses and entrepreneurs, but I don't support corporatism and wage slavery.
I also support social services, but not handouts or liberal identity politics.
I just believe in a social order where everyone is rewarded proportionally to what they contribute to society.

[WhiteSandBeach]

I agree with most of what you said. Sadly, people pick sides most often and become unreasonable.

[ImSparkly]

I was raised to be a pragmatist, so it extends to my political beliefs and probably puts me as a left-centrist.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

But you said you're a pragmatist 😂

[mistixs]

Moderate

[SirRexington]

Im neither. Im a socialist. That means I fight for different system rather than merely fighting for minorities to have more control over the one we have now. That means I fight for workers and for the rights of everyone to be eqaul in a free society where we all pitch in to the best of our abilities and make sure every individual has the opportunity to try an accomplish those abilities. I don't believe in government takeover of industry, that's state Capitalism where everyone is an employee of the state, I believe in self management and codetermination. The democratisation of the workplace.

Culturally, I'm conservative leaning. I don't believe in multiple genders. I highly value the family. I despise hookup culture and promiscuity. I defend the science that shows men and women are clearly different and have different roles. But I also don't believe we should socially force others to fit in a box if they don't want to. I'm strict on immigration policy. I fight for workers and members of the community before I fight for a shit ton on randoms demanding to be part of the community. I don't blindly support multiculturalism as I think certain cultures need to be separated as they cannot coexist. I reject the idea that being a white man makes you a beneficiary of the oppressive patriarchy. I admit that we need to teach personal responsibility as much as the desire for personal freedom. I also advocate for individual rights and I despise Islam and want less Muslims coming here to America, or Western countries in general.

So economically, I'm socialist. Culturally I lean conservative, though I don't believe in strict gender roles and advocate for individual right to choose so therefore I am not a fan of restrictive conservative mentalities of how people should act and express themselves. But modern liberals do the same thing nowdays.

Legally I'm anti authoritarian. I don't approve of most foreign conflicts. Only supporting defensive wars. I certainly don't support the funding and dealing with authoritarian government like Saudi Arabia. Im pro choice. I've always been environmentally conscious and support protections to the environment to protect the rights of man, not corporations. I don't believe in government interfering with peoples personal lives, meaning prostitution should be legal and so should many drugs, not crack or meth or anything like that. Im against beurocracy and over regulated statutes that stifle small businesses and worker co-ops. I defend the right for people to have adequate shelter and healthcare. And I value free speech above all else. Businesses, universities etc should not ban speech or expression. That means Alex Jones and Gavin McGuiness need to be back on YouTube. Colin Caperkick should have never been fired. YouTubers who speak their minds should not lose demonitization. Copyright should only apply to those who attempt to take credit of someone esles idea, all else is fair game.

[WhiteSandBeach]

Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

[SirRexington]

Absolutely. But I never said as much. Is there something I said that made you think I didn't believe that?

[WhiteSandBeach]

You said businesses and universities should not ban speech. Yes, they can.

[SirRexington]

They can but should not be allowed to.

[WhiteSandBeach]

Yes they should be allowed to.

[SirRexington]

I'm not budging on this. This is one of those beliefs that I will die for. The idea some jagoff is gonna tell me what I can't and can't say because they believe im their wage slave is just another way to suppress workers rights to autonomy.

[WhiteSandBeach]

So you don’t support the business right to ban people? It’s their business and their right.

[SirRexington]

No I do not. The only reason a business should be allowed to exclude someone is if they are causing a massive disturbance that includes threats of violence, physically damaging property or harassing someone.

[WhiteSandBeach]

Then I don’t support a worker being racist in my business. And I would fire him.

[SirRexington]

And I think we are talking about two different things. I was talking about the workers not the customers.

A business can not deny a gay person. Or a trans person. Or a white man. They cannot deny service to someone unless they are causing a glaring disturbance.

[WhiteSandBeach]

I disagree with everything you’ve said.

[SirRexington]

You have the right too. That's your freedom of opinion.

And I would much rather a racist be employed than unemployed where he can simmer and grow angry at the world, feeling like a victim where he hurts people out of rage and further resentment.

Keep your enemies close, my dear.

[normalice]

I think the rich are doing whatever they can (good or ill - but mostly ill) to hoard more cash, and largely working through conservative politicians to get it done. I don't think the classical definitions of liberal and conservative carry any meaning anymore. The rich are happy to use either ideology to justify giving themselves more, but find conservatives slightly easier to work with. So, I suppose I lean liberal just to resist as much as possible. Unfortunately, resistance is such an uphill battle, because the rich own the hill.

[Anonymous]

Voting to keep America great. Also voting for tax cuts, economic growth, less immigration, state's rights, pro-life, and cracking down on China.

As far as I'm concerned, Trump has far exceeded expectations, and he's done so with the democrats consistently trying to screw him over with these stupid wild goose chases. First it was all those rape accusations, then it was the stupid Russian collusion thing, now its this dumb phone call with the leader of Ukraine. They are so desperate to get rid of him that they are trying everything they can. Unfortunately for them, the Trump train keeps rolling.

The dems are truly scared, hence why they've commanded the media to commence a 24/7 barrage on his reputation. Trump is a fantastic president and the dems are worried that people are going to start realizing that.

[humanearth]

I don't know what side I'm on probably for the group.

That wants a minimal government, privacy laws that really protect people rights,

freedom to carry weapons if I want.

No weapons control crap.

I don't want stupid laws like drivers license and insurance.

No marriage license BS. Should not have to ask the government for permission to get married or to drive

If you buy land it should be yours free and clear. You paid for it. The government should not be able to take it from you.

What ever side supports that. Thats the side I want to be on

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Left-leaning centrist, or "moderate left" I suppose. I can see value in both camps, and in my nature I try to mediate between two opposing positions. But conservative politics here in the UK has strayed so far from the classical conservative ideals, that I can't in good conscience support them. Tory politicians are a cancer on this country at present. And I tend towards more liberal philosophies and policies, although I don't like outright socialism or Marxism etc. On some issues I side more with the right, on other issues I side more with the left, so all in all I'm a moderate with a mild tilt towards the left end of the scales.

[smølf]

I am a liberal in European context, this would be a conservative in the US.

In the US liberals are considered left wing, not so in Europa where the Socialist constitutes the left wing. Liberals and conservative will often form governments either joined and with support form one another.
In European liberals can argue for tax cuts like the conservatives in the US, so it important to take local difference into consideration.

Americans can consider me a conservative, while Europeans will see me as a liberal.

[NearlyNapping]

Politically a moderate conservative. I'm also extremely anti-modern liberalism, which gives the appearance of being more conservative than I really am.

This site is pretty left leaning. It's not unusual for some people think it's very conservative. I think they've just never been around many conservatives, and aren't used to it. Compared to the general population, this site is left of center. ( The age group probably has a lot to do with it )

[SirRexington]

This site is right wing as fuck what are you talking about haha

[NearlyNapping]

@SirRexington

This site is most definitely not right wing as fuck. It might just seem right wing compared to what you are used to and who you hang around with.

I admit, it's more conservative than I'd expect at this site and age group. But compared to the population as a whole, it is left of center. Maybe you just don't know where the center is. I suspect you'd call the center conservative because it's to the right of yourself.

[SirRexington]

Dude. I live in the Bible belt. A red state and was raised by conservatives... Don't tell me I'm not "used" to something. The majority of people on here are conservative. That's a fact supported by this question alone.

[NearlyNapping]

@SirRexington

Calling oneself conservative does not make someone right wing as fuck. The large majority of conservatives on here are pretty moderate., not right wingers.

Bible belt conservatives are not in any way representative of conservatives. Nor are bible belt "Southern Democrats". The south has it's own brand of politics. So do some other parts of the country, but especially in the south. I live in a very conservative area (70-80% Republican voters) , but it's nothing at all like bible belt conservative.

The thing is about this site, is that a lot of the liberalism is extreme. That's not the case for the large majority of conservatives here. There are some "core" conservatives, but not extreme. I can't think of ANY active members who are extreme conservatives. The only ones I've seen appear to be hit-and-run anon trolls, probably level 1. They are just trying to stir up trouble.

[SirRexington]

Dude. You're delusional. You criticize me for assuming someone who's conservative actually isn't or isn't radical yet you make the same claim towards liberals. His typical of a conservative

[NearlyNapping]

@SirRexington

There is a big difference. It's FAR more easy to understand liberlism than to understand conservatism. There are a couple of major reasons for that. But I think this has gone on long enough and I'm done.

[LoU_Hades]

I'm socialist in terms of welfare for people who aren't able to work, I support abortion, secularism and fair wages for the worker class. But I love my nation (not country), I opposes uncontrolled immigration and open borders politics.
It makes me to social-nationalist

[MrHopper]

Left middle or middle left... but i tend to think more that am just for everyone to leave each other the fuck alone and get on with life

[WhiteSandBeach]

I agree!

[OfDeath]

I'm from Australia and here, the conservatives are called "the liberal party" and the more left leaning party are called "the Labor party"

It's really weird because the rural party who are from the areas worst affected by climate change always form a coalition with "the liberal party" to form a conservative government which essentially fucks them over.

[NYCstreetPhotog]

I'm as middle of the road as you can get, I like points from both sides, and don't give two shits what others think about my opinions. Live and let live (sometimes, live and let die) is my political mantra. Hell I'm waiting for the day the sophmoric two party system crumbles and a more open political form exists.

[trapper1738]

I'm also independent. Although my views usually served to be close to liberal currently. I do support Trump in the fact I've taken a oath to obey his orders lol, but he's got problems like any other president has and he has good points and policies as well.
I don't think he should serve another term unless the opposition is really that bad but I don't think anyone should ever serve more than 4 years if a strong opposition is present.

[happyhedgehog]

Both, but definitely more conservative. I don't think being completely either one is good; there are many things from both sides that I disagree with. I think people should be more willing to compromise instead of picking a side and calling the other wrong.

[Bananaman177]

[ShortCircuit]

I'm neither conservative nor liberal, and my views happen to line up too closely with libertarianism to really consider myself an "independent". I'm a libertarian through and through.

[serious]

Well, I am a modern man. Modern in my own ways, however, certain aspects of my thinking related to certain things are indeed old fashioned but overall I would say I am a liberal type of person.

[Hypnos0929]

I'd say I've got a lot of early conservative values but liberal beliefs in the economy.
It's really hard to respect modern conservatives, in America, because they don't believe in anything other than wining elections and avoiding history books like the plague but at the same time I don't like the radical levels which liberals try to push.

[Sixgun77]

I lean conservative (as in sticking to the intent/ philosophy of the founding documents and framers/signatories of those documents) when it comes to American politics. As far as party affiliation, I'm independent/ unaffiliated because I believe that all political parties are detrimental.

[Oram52]

Its only in America conservative is synonymous with rightwing and liberal with leftwing. Politically I am centrist. Ideologically I am Classical Liberal - Closer to Libertarians today. Both are rooted in Enlightenment Values.

[Anonymous]

Same as you. I agree with some liberal points, and some conservative. I don't agree with being so polarized that you refuse to see the opposing side's ideas, so I base my views on a balance of emotion (empathy, consideration, compassion) and logic (consequences, costs, long-term effects).