Once again who are you to define what masculinity is and isn't? Masculinity to me and most men is being strong physically and mentally and being able to keep going in the face of adversity. Showing emotion doesn't make you less of a man and showing none doesn't either. And I should also mention i don't necessarily mean physical strength, as it relates to lifting weights or being athletic. Can you see how calling that toxic is a problem? If I identify as that and you say it is toxic you are basically saying who I am is toxic and wrong.
You do realize I'm just quoting memories and women when they say things like "you don't get a say because your not a [fill in the blank]". Who says I'm bashing women? I'm bashing feminists. Can only women be feminists? 😂 feminists say they are about equality, yet they never seem to care about fighting for mens issues. The MRA gets counter protest by feminists every time they try to talk about male issues. They get called bigots and sexist for it.
You do realize without men women still wouldn't be able to vote or do half the shit they are able to know. Doesn't that kinda make men the "issue fixers" for women? 🤪
The problem is when you have two separate movements both fighting for equality from different perspectives you get confrontation, so you end up fighting eachother and those who disagree with equality. It is basically a war on two fronts. All it does is stall progress. Either feminists need to come out and say feminism is about getting women power over men, or they need to start being about equality like they say they are.
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You could successfully argue that a Feminist doesn't have to have anti-male viewpoints. However I don't see how people can keep arguing that Feminism literally means equality of the sexes. It does not. Read the word. Analyze the semantics of the word. It does not mean equality. It is pro-female activism. Feminists can believe in equality, but they can focus on areas where they feel that men have an advantage and they can try to raise women up. Some feminists also try to pull men down, but not all of them do that. But in any case, all Feminism is focused on females, hence why it's called feminism.
The word that should mean equality is equalism but that was already used for some other stupid meaning long ago so we got stuck with the word Egalitarianism to mean actual equality between genders. (Some people more recently have been reclaiming the word Equalism because its old meaning has no relevance these days anyway.)
Honestly, people who keep telling me the word means something that it doesn't is half of the reason that I don't respect Feminism. I do respect Egalitarianism and I do respect women and treat them as well as anyone else.
Yes, I think many people assume that when someone says they're a feminist, that they are actually an extreme feminist. For example, I would consider myself in a feminist in that I believe that women all over the world deserve equitable rights to men.
While much progress has been made in North America, I believe much still needs to be done, especially in poorer countries, where there are issues like girls being unable to go to school because they can't afford feminine hygiene products, while boys don't face that issue.
I once mentioned that I was a feminist to my boyfriend, and he straight up told me "no, you're not." I am, just not by society's definition. I am a feminist, not an extreme feminist
I know you didn't ask me at all, @OddBeMe but to me this 4th wave of feminism as LittleBird says, contributes to inequality, oppression and hatred from both sides. Of course I'm not implying that all men hate women and vice versa, but that it slowly builds up to an intolerance (from some) towards each other instead of trying to complement one another. I'm sorry if I don't make any sense 😅
In my case I can speak from my experience with my brother and my boyfriend. My brother is a highschool senior and honestly I've seen how girls and female teachers go all feminazi (making sexist jokes or saying men are only good for manual labor) over him and other male students, making them slowly turn away from any interaction with women and some negative feelings started to arise. My boyfriend had a girlfriend a few years back that turned out to be really oppressive and identified herself as a feminist, which takes from the actual movement and made him step away from women for a while.
As a man who deals with many different people and corporations in the world- have never experienced anything like that. If a high school teacher is treating a student like that she needs to be fired. And some girls can be verbally abusive to husbands. But stats primarily correspond to females being victims of this type of abuse. “Feminazis” is a buzzword for anti-feminists who want to take America back when it was great. Like 1950. Would you want to live in the fifties as a woman?
Hell yes. They need to get over themselves. No wonder men are so worn out and terrified to e even approach a woman. Fuck I feel the same. Also the utter emasculation of men by women... the feminists should be so ashamed. Too much freedom isn't a good thing.
This is why Gof gave man dominion over women. They need to be pulled into line! Fucking social justice warriors I'm over it.
Feminism has always been about the advancement of women's rights. The difference now is that they continue to fight to advance their rights although they have already acheived equality.
Feminism has never had a good reputation. its purpose was to create gender conflict and encourage women to enter the workforce to lower wages. Its why billionaires fund all the feminist movements and propaganda.
Rant time: read if you want. dont if you can't be bothered haha.
Well most feminists haven't read any of the literature on Feminism. They just hear the rhetoric associated with it. What feminism seeks is gender conflict. Really wish women would read the feminine mystique by Betty Friedan, and other feminist works. They would soon realize its Marxist Class struggle,(Assuming they read the communist manifesto) but replaced with Gender Struggle Instead of the Wealthy oligarchs as oppressors, it paints men as something oppressive. The only way feminists can accomplish their goal is by removing gender. Its the same as marxist/communism, the only way to accomplish their goal is to remove wealth. to create "Equality" which is in fact bad. Equality is bad. Nature and the world exists in hierarchical systems.
Why would women ever want to be treated like men? I will never treat women like men. Women have different needs, experience things differently, and feel differently. A man has his role and a woman has hers. Its best we fulfill our roles to the best of our ability. It worked for the first 10,000 years of civilization. lets not switch it up.
Today, the problem with feminism is not extremists or so-called feminazis. The problem is mainstream feminism itself. The issue is the gynocentrism that characterizes ALL of feminism today. The concept of the "femininazi" has become nothing more than a scapegoat that feminists use to blame for the issues within feminism and relieve them of the responsibility that actually lies squarely on their own shoulders. It diverts attention away from the real issues with feminism.
The short video The_White_Queen posted does a great job of summing up the biggest problem with feminism... gynocentrism and a complete lack of empathy for the other half of the population, and an overwhelming inability for feminists to actual recognize those issues. I'll post the video here again for reference.
What feminists need most today is a long, honest look in the mirror.
Yes, but that doesn't mean the less extreme version isn't bad. Having a womens interest griup attacking gender traits in an attempt to make them more equal is a terrible idea to begin with and has only served to destroy our 40 hours of work social fabric where women are now forced to participate in the workplace and being a mom is frowned upon.
To me while i am fully in favor of the concept that any family member can work instead of just the man and its of course a good thing women are seen as equals instead of slaves feminism is not the right movement to do so and thus has done incredible harm.
Its better if we all stop supporting these marxist interest groups and instead focus on liberty and a fair system.
Bit of clarification since i noticed i didn't argue the 40 hour thing properly. I am in favor of the freedom to devide a 40 hour work week however the couple chooses. But you should never have to both work on the same day to get by. Someone needs to look after the household.
Yes, radical feminists have ruined the reputation of feminism. What was meant to be a way to strive for equality between women and men has become a women supremacy movement, which makes me sad as a normal feminist. When you say feminism people just assume you mean man hating people with no grip at all, instead of both women and men fighting for equal representation and freedoms.
@name_is-eric.. Correct there , feminism has been progressively hijacked by extremists , and these man haters make up the entire leadership of this movement now. If it is not an an anti-male hate movement , then why aren't the rank and file feminists calling out their leaders misandrist rhetoric? Their silence is deafening... feminism now , is very firmly a sub -branch of Cultural Marxism , a hive mind , " follow my leaders " movement , with an especial hatred for males of European extraction above all others.
It's called "extreme feminism" for a reason, the third wave of feminism has done some good but then it just goes overboard with these extreme leftists claiming women are and should be the superior sex I mean even those male feminists lol theyre like dogs on a leash praising this insanity✌😗
I don’t think so, but either way I don’t care. I’m a a feminist. I believe that men and women should be treated equally. Even if a few extremists manage to ruin the reputation of feminism, i’d still claim to be a feminists because I stand by my beliefs. Every group has its extremists that makes the group look bad. The key is to not focus on those people. If we stereotyped every group based off of the small number of crazy people in them then world would be a terrifying place.
I am ashamed to call myself a feminist now, I've gone for gender equalist. It's always the action of a few that ruin it for the many. And I want to shake that stigma.
Yes. Extremists among feminist don't fight against discrimination of women, but against all men and boys. Especially in societies where majority of men tend to see women as equal. I can't determine what is their goal or if there is one at all, with exception of emotional satisfaction of malicious needs. However, I don't comprehend all those self-destructive postmodernism ideologies and movements, where war is peace, freedom slavery and ignorance is strength.
For them, the male is either the escape goat or the enemy and the source of their suffrage in western civilisation where men like me only want to see women happy, in good health, wealthy and successful.
Now tell me this, what happens when extreme feminists shit on guys like me? How will I view the female gender thereafter?
What they don't understand is that it is the same as a female being constantly verbally abused by men grows up hating and resenting men. Like I said, extreme feminists are ruining men like use for equalist women like you. We're lucky if we are gay and skip this shit show all together tbf.
In all ideologies and movements. Unless a firm grip is maintained then eventually the reason it was brought up will evolve into something it was never intended to become.
I believe there are woman out there that take it to far because it gives them a sense of power. Belonging and meaning in an otherwise meaningless existence. Though they see themselves as righteous, they do not in turn see the damage they cause to the movement.
I, upon seeing female bodybuilders, female construction crews and such, know women are capable of everything Men are. Just with varying degrees of success.
Me too lad, which is why I am thinking of using the phrase "gender equalist" instead of male feminist as it no longer represents my intentions. Guys&Girls think I stand on podiums and shit on other men.
Yeah, I think I'll be calling myself a gender equalist from now on.
Feminism is lesbianism. Those new recruits were lured into an appetizing menu of entitlements and dark practices formally known as witchcraft. Women who were gulible to its dark evil powers are the ones who have hurt and scared and still progressed to malice good women..
It is women like that, that makes me wish I was gay and didn't have to deal with extreme feminists anymore. I go there as a gender equalist and get kicked out for being a man, what the actual fuck?
I'd very happily be gay if it was a choice and say "you go fuck your gender and I'll go fuck people in mine" at least that will sort out the human population.
Has extreme anything ruined the reputation of the thing? Yes! People use it as an excuse to break down movements and call them extreme. This is just a way to ignore the issue and blame feminists. This is just a way to smokescreen. People should focus on positive aspects of the movement. Only haters will bring up extreme feminism and generalize all feminists as that to make people hate feminists!
The very definition makes it impossible to achieve anything.
Political equality. Yea time to go back and give women an obligation to go with that voting right like men have. Male circumcision is still a thing.
Economic. I guessing this one's about "the wage gap"
Ok, men as a group make more than women as a group. Bcs women as a group choose to get pregnant and take time off. Men as a group have no such biological restriction and can keep working. Not to mention that free will and choice is still a thing The wage gap is a dead horse that keeps getting beaten.
Social. Again , not gonna happen bcs men and women treat each other differently by nature. And if women do want social equality , they should abandoned ideas like chivalry , courting etc.
It really did. I am a woman myself and I don't like the idea of extreme feminism. Feminism is ok when actually needed, how it was before when women couldn't vote in president elections or etc. But now it is necessary and searching for some kind of "justice" is just stupid
What do you mean by extreme feminism? There's no such thing, feminism is just feminism, it can't be extreme. I think what you're talking about is misandry, which has nothing to do with feminism. Misandry existed long before feminism. it's disrespectful to mix the two.
no, you know thats in line of that there is no bad publicism, every publicism is good. As long as its talked about it its good; the point is to bring attention to the issue. You can expect any radical change to be exicuted perfectly and there will always be understandable opposed opinions.
So blaming all men and saying masculinity is toxic is a good thing? Feminist are so quick to say that men have all the power, while they continuously ostracizing men and making them your enemy. And yet feminists wonder why men don't like them, and that progress has slown down.🤪
@nathanp97 Noone is really blaming ALL men they just feel personally attacked if someone says just men, but noone ever said ALL men. Masculinity CAN be toxic, there is a difference. Of course not all things done with feminism or any radical movment will be right in every way but as i said there are no radical changes without some sacrifices and in this case real end goal justifies the means.
Being a man=masculinity, so when you attack masculinity you attack all men. They say men without specifying individuals which makes it all men. What gives women the right to define what is and isn't masculine? They aren't men. Are men allowed to define what is and isn't femine for women?
If no radical change can occur without sacrifice, why does it seem like only men are be sacrificed? I don't see women's careers being ruined over false accusations of rape. I don't see women being expected to uphold the same traditional values in dating and relationships, while they still expect men to pay. I don't see men's problems being addressed. I don't see women being called sexist for bring up issues their gender faces. Men get 60% longer prison sentence , and there are more missing and murdered aboriginal men than women, yet no one seems to care; they only care about women, and that is to name a few. Instead feminists focus on things like the wage gap. They say it is discriminatory and part of the patriarchy when the ownly known factor for it comes down to choices women make. Younger women before 30 actually make more too.
You do realize femininity can and is just as toxic as masculinity right? Why is that never addressed. What radical change do women still need to fight for in the developed world? If I want women to be held responsible for when they assault men, based on your logic, should I beat the crap out of them when they hit me once? If think less physical violence as a result would justify it. 🤪
@nathanp97 This is what we disagree on, masculinity isn't = men nor is femininity equal women. Those are social constructs in my opinion. If masculinity is shaming men for crying or shaming women for being assertive - that isn't natural and therefore its toxic. Natural is for everyone to cry and act in accordance with their personality.
As of mens issues as you said it, you contradict ysf. First you say what women know about being a men to speak of it than you bash women for not talking about mens issues. Noone prevents men to talk about their issues. Everyone is concerned about their own issues, and it doesn't make sense to force and demand anyone to get involved in your own issues and be like your issue fixer. Men do this, they demand it from women and they put more effort into talking about how women talk about their issues and not mens. They try to talk about men issues on account of women talking about theirs. The real goal is to prevent women to talk about their issues, not to resolve mens issues. No men saw any problem for himself until women said their problems. You should rather talk about mens issues for the sake of men and not as a response to women talking about their issues.
Not in my opinion. It’s foolish to judge the whole because of a few. That’s how racial stereotypes exist currently (aside from historical purposes). The majority of rapists are men, should men be vilified? The Catholic Church is known for molesting boys: should it be banned?
"Not in my opinion. It’s foolish to judge the whole because of a few. " - you mean how feminists now do to men? At my job I hear at least 10 anti-male comments a day and we have to deal with sexist stabs and bullshit comments at every meeting. I'm supposed to just swallow that because if I say something I"m a "woman hater who hates strong women speaking up and expressing themselves". Feminism has become a joke and I"m glad more and more women are starting to speak against it. SJWism needs to end ASAP. I'm fucking nauseated by it.
@nathanp97 Making fun of someone because of their sex has nothing to do with feminism, in most cases it's just a joke, the same way men make fun fun of women (like for example saying that women's place is in the kitchen, in a joking way). We make gender jokes at work all the time, it's just like any other joke, no one takes it personally.
Yes. And I salute you for understanding what it's about.
As long as there are countries where women aren't allowed to go on the streets alone, or where girks aren't allowed an education, I will keep calling myself a feminist. Not for myself - I have all the freedom I need. But for the people who don't have that.
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