Many people until today disagree on Roe v. s Wade 1973 Supreme Court decision to allow abortion. Many states in U. S still don't support this law. I am religious man and with morals and values and I don't support the fact tax payer money goes into supporting women bad sexual behavior. 2ndly humans lived on earth for thousands years without any law that told them to kill their kids in the bells because outcome that comes after. So what if a woman has the pregnancy at least she will learn no one will rescue you for your bad behavior. Only acceptable reason to abort should be life n death. Aside from that their should not be billions dollars wasted to support illicit sexual activity on tax payers.
If u ran for office would you outlaw this law? Please choose n explain why you are pro choice v. s pro life.
Pro life? Why
Pro choice? Why
Select gender and age to cast your vote:
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Updates
+1 y
Oh a child is so inconvenient because I got raped was it childs fault why u punishing him..
The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.
A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.
We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)
Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.
This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.
Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.
Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.
I wrote this Bodily Rights and Abortion specifically on this subject and while it’s not my best work it still serves as a decent introduction to my position.
I’m pro-choice because of the bodily rights argument, but there are some caveats I have to add due to the leftward lurch of American Democrats. No, I am not a proponent of late stage or partial birth abortions if they intentionally kill the fetus/ baby. Late stage abortions utilize either IDX or D&E which both intentionally end the life of a viable fetus. This is different from the post viable abortion in which the fetus just dies as a consequence of its insufficient development. If a woman desires to have a late stage abortion I think she should have the right to remove the fetus for self autonomy reasons, but not at the cost of intentionally killing it. This means she could have a Cesarian or early induction to remove the fetus, but then the baby would have to be kept alive like any other person.
Besides that though you make some claims I disagree with. Firstly women throughout antiquity frequently performed abortions and actual infanticide after the baby left the womb. This was such a commonplace thing that old peace officers used to report dead babies in the streets as no different a dead dog. Secondly, I’m not sure which religion you ascribe to, but the Bible itself expressly describes how to perform an abortion in numbers 5, as well as describing an unborn baby as not being equal to a living human in Exodus 21. Yevamot 69b:10 states that a baby is just fluid until the 40th day, and the Hadiths state that ensoulment doesn’t occur until the 120th day, so that covers the big 3 at least.
“This is different from the post viable abortion in which the fetus just dies as a consequence of its insufficient development.” This was supposed to say “pre-viable abortion”.
I believe you can be both. Most of my problems are with American policies on two levels. First with special needs children languishing (warehoused) in the foster care system. Secondly, policies that may encourage children being born, but once the cord is cut, your completely on your own. This is in contrast to many European countries with strong family leave policies, child care, job protections, education and other elements that are more holistic to actually raising a productive member of society. Combining the two, where you have a special needs kid and the lack of support systems, would result in much consternation for any mother.
So I'm pro-life once they are out of the womb, but America does not make it easy to raise a child once its born. Its a horrible choice to have to make, be it economical or if the fetus has conditions that would be inconsistent with sustaining life. there's much research saying that many abortions in the US are due to economic issues for the mother/family. Look at child support enforcement here, its a joke. Your bringing up a kid in poverty and squalor. Other female mammals have the capability of embryonic diapause, I wish we had that as humans.
Pro choice because it makes more sense to let the woman choose what to do with her body in cases of promiscuity or rape or even in instances where say the man abandons her. Not every woman wants to be or feels capable of being a single mom.
Abortion is also a good thing if the woman knows that her baby won't have a good life, say if she's a prostitute, a drug addict or if she's just a busy person.
Plus the foetus is just a foetus. It's a little human in process of being formed but not a fully formed being. I don't think that people are as attached to a foetus as they are to a baby. I'm not saying that there is no attachment at all but it's certainly not the same as loving a baby who had already been delivered. If the level of attachement would've been the same people would've said "We have 2 kids" instead of saying "We have one kid and one on the way"
I think about it as 'engaged to be married'... They're not married yet and still have time to change their mind.
Overall, I believe that it's best to not have kids at all rather than having them and not giving them a good upbringing and all the happiness on earth.
I am pro choice. No one is required to like that women choose to abort but their opinion should never get to override the woman’s authority over her pregnancy.
No man is claiming he has the accual authority to override a womans disposition in that matter. But , wether you like it or not or wether you believe it or not , men have Gods commanded commandment to lead women spiritually concerning life or death and its consequences. Your body belongs to God and so does a biological creation inside of it. Between female and male who created biologically a new creation together the shared conception belongs to God regardless. You or the father have NO absolute humanly right to choose the eternal destiny of any human by your constituent decision solely to end any humans life for any reason.
I’m also pro brain there are 17 different birth controls to abortion pills and usually using a condom plus lubrication plus! If a Girl is rap3d she can’t take before after pill the next day pill next week pill abortion pill there’s also other people precautions that are new into the technology that the girl could go and get his self checked out plus needles and other stuff..
@Mjghost FYI many of contraceptive methods currently available are not 100% effective. The morning after pill also only works well enough if you take it a day or so after having had sex. I really doubt someone who was just raped would be in a mental place where they can even begin contemplating things like taking the morning after pill on time. And oh what if the girl was raped on Friday eve/Saturday morning, most pharmacies are closed after those hours, so I suppose she is just gonna have to have that baby? And don’t even get me started on the side effects of different contraceptives. :S
Except she chose to get pregnant? Why does every one ignore that part of her authority? She literally made that happened, she went out of her way to get knocked up, she refused to use contraceptives which are insanely common and cheap and then she got pregnant. Why is it that women like yourself always argue about a woman's "right to choose" but ignore the original choice she had the right to make? Also what about the childs right not to die? I mean why does it exist? Oh yeah, the child exists because their parents where idiots and didn't use proper protection because they where lazy or "it didn't feel as good". Suck it up and own it, your free to choose and always have been no one is questioning that, what is in question is your "right" to kill your offspring that you created because you couldn't be bothered to do things the responsible way and your belief that you have the right not to be responsible for your actions. Those are two very different things (which is why you conflate the two because one is understandable (and absolutely a right) and the other is just you acting like a child who doesn't want to suck it up an take responsibility which isn't understandable nor acceptable.
@hellionthesagereborn I understand you have questions about this, but these really aren't your concerns. Everyone should be making decisions based on what they think is right for them. You don't get to tell anyone what is the right decision based on their circumstances, many of those circumstances you might be completely unaware of. If you don't like it, that's fine. Then don't like it.
So ignore the whole she chose to get knocked up thing because its inconvient got yah. Of course you would because well look at you, your entire ideological belief structure hinges on you not having to be a responsible human being. Rather sad and pathetic really. People like you really aught not be reproducing to begin with, your basically a child yourself, to immature and incapable of self reflection or taking responsibility. I just don't think you should have the right to murder a baby because you couldn't be bothered to take the thirty second of using a contraceptive. Seems really screwed up and clearly has nothing to do with what is right (I mean really who the fuck would use that as a justification for killing their own baby that only existes because they the adult decided to act like a fucking idiot? Well people with no moral values like yourself obviously but its still really screwed up).
You can feel however which way you want to feel about this matter but at the end of the day, the decision isn’t yours to make unless you’re the one in it.
This quite literally has nothing to do with "decisions" it has to do with whether or not what you are condoning is murder or not (and it is legally and morally speaking). That's like saying its okay for me to kill my wife if she becomes inconvient to me and its my decision to make because it doesn't affect you. Sure it doesn't affect you, but it affects the person being murdered so its a moot point. Its a stupid argument and of course you know that because for you its not about logic its about avoiding responsibility as much as humanely possible. Yeah abortion affects me because I can have kids but don't get a say in whether or not they get murdered, yes it affects me because you are advocating for legal murder which I find to be morally objectionable. So yeah, I do get a say in this no different then any one else.
Abortions aren't free. Family planning programs support so much more than abortions.
Being men, we rrally should just shut the fuck up about what women should or should not do with their bodies. Nobody is perfect. I would allow everybody one. One oops. I dont support abortion being used as steady birth control. If a woman has to have a kid dug out every 30 days, then i think she should have her uterus welded shut.
That life or death stance is a bunch of bullshit too. There are a million detectable birth defects that won't KILL a child. But they will spend every second of their short ass, miserable life in constant pain wishing they were dead. You can thank your precious savior for that one.
God and his plan conceive a billion children a day who have no reason being born. Now thats a hard fact of life. We, as humans, try to excuse and/or understand the devine plan all the time. Our way is not his way. Thats a bitch. But thats a fact too.
The long and the short of it is this. Until we each are either dealing with an unwanted pregnancy, or face to face with god asking him exactly what he meant when he outlined the devine plan, then we need to just shut the fuck up.
This is one of the most controversial, brain dead topics I have ever seen anywhere. People actually acting like everyone has a good life or that the parent (s) could ever offer a good life. "Just give the child up for adoption", oh and let them go through that system? Sure. They may never find a home. Let's not even get into how close minded all these individuals actually are and remember how small their world is. They only see what is in front of them but the world as a whole. The world is a lot larger than your city, state, country, or even continent. People live their own lives, and people make mistakes. You have people that are born that don't want to live, and you have those that want their life. People will argue both sides, but it is best to leave it on the fence where it belongs, mind your business and go about your day. You know damn well you aren't about to adopt a child right now, nor are you going to get a child from a parent (s) that doesn't want their potential child. Quit acting like you are a hero, and a daycare. You aren't. Remember that. Only when you actively step in and do something for these "would be" children that will potentially not exist, can you have a legitimate opinion on this matter.
Mighty assumptious aren't you? You don't know one thing about me. I would love to adopt if I were allowed to. Queers can adopt, women can adopt, it's always men are the targets of the unwritten policy IE this case non adoption policy. That and the damn government has to get their hands in each and everything they can manage to put them in. You got any idea what it cost to adopt do you? You don't speak for me I can tell you that.
The word is presumptuous. I'm not speaking specifically. I'm speaking generally. Also, as large as the world is, you couldn't know where I live, nor could I know where you live, hence why I mentioned the city, state country and continent. I'm sure we don't live near one another. I'm also sure the policy differs because of where we live. I'm not saying you can't adopt, and I'm not saying that you wouldn't adopt, however the general person isn't going to do so. You are merely 1 individual (possibly partnered, so 2 individuals) of approximately 7.7 billion humans.
Relax. Everything isn't about you. This opinion isn't about you. It's for the vast majority that are so pro life that they cannot see reason. For those that do not choose to adopt but believe that all lives have merit even if many lives end short. Etc. This topic is a literal shit show. You come looking for a clown, but you literally get the fucking circus instead.
You would be amazed how many of us out here would love to adopt and we could if it weren't for 3rd party forces that stand in our way that make it impossible. It's just like when you hear the words "dead beat dad", you automatically think that's true because the dad's were labeled that, when in fact false allegations were brought against them in order to steal full custody of their children and things like that. Lot's of people want to adopt but can't and it's not because they wouldn't.
And you wonder why I say "They may never find a home". I already know this. The system as a whole is terrible world wide. There are plenty of people on the planet as is. It isn't like the few that choose to do away with would be lives are cutting the population by a modicum. The world keeps turnin'.
I’m not sure tax payer money goes to abortion, unless the abortion is prefaced by incest, rape, or the life of the mother is at risk. I believe this is called the Hyde Amendment.” I’m pro-life because it’s not right to abort a human life just because one has the ability to and because of convenience. If you let the processes that be take over then you’ll get a human being baby. You can say this about isolated sperm or eggs. The majority of abortions are not done out of reasons due to rape, but mostly lack of convenience to my knowledge. I believe poor decision-making and bad judgment led to the decision to contemplate abortion. I don’t like the immorality of abortion nor do I like the lack of judgment and decision-making around it. There are other alternatives for one to take if they perceive themselves of being not able to take care of the child because they say “I’m too busy” or “This world is too cruel.” I can debunk these statements but I lack the patience to write a further lengthy piece.
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
Did you know that there are over 400,000 children in the foster care system right now? These are kids who came from bad homes or were given to the adoption agency. If you take away a woman’s right for abortion away, there would probably be millions in the foster care system which WE are paying for through our taxes. Which is cheaper? Birth control or one child in foster care? Hmmm? Not to mention the low chance that kid has to succeed in life.
Also, where the flying fuck are the fathers of these unwanted kids? Yes, people make mistakes but keeping the woman 100% accountable to this is the very reason women get abortions because they know the can’t count on the loser guy who knocked them up.
ALSO thousands of years ago, having an abortion meant death to the woman but you were likely to die from child birth. No one wants to have an abortion but there should still be the option. Even if it’s morally wrong, if you are going to force a woman to not abort, you better be the one offering to adopt the kid. The reason behind abortion is usually because the woman knows she can’t give the child the life it deserves.
Everyone has problems in life, and we still want to be alive. By your comment, we can infere that poor people should not be alive, because they pass through financial issues, for example. If they are poor today, they can battle and they can have a better life tomorrow. Everything can change, as long as you are alive. You are determining the future of the person based on the conditions of borning. How many successful histories we see every day of people thad had everything to lose hope but keep going and became succesful. Bill Gates and Einstein passed through hard times. If you are sad today, you can be happy tomorrow. In other words, besides saying that poor people should not be alive, you are saying that disabled people should not live as well. That is eugenics, the base of the idea of legalizing abortion. Search for Margaret Sanger on google and you will see how abortion is an evil idea, that evolves feminism and brainwashing on population in every aspects, especially sexual behavior.
pulation control. Search on the internet and you will see how we are manipulated every day by the media and the rich people on foundations to think that children are a problem, and procriating should not be stimulated.
correcting my last reply: Also, there are lots of maipulation on statics regarding abortion. You are wrong, most of the abortions don't come from people who are poor. Poor people usually raise the kids working hard and doing what tehy can. Most of the abortions come from promiscuity, women and men that think that a child will be a problem for their studies or carrier, for example. Using poor people to defend abortion is really something hypocritical to do. Abortion come from selfishness and only think about the pleasure o the moment without consequences. Also, you mentioned "birth control". People spread the idea that killing other innocent and defenseless person is birth control to bring people closer to the theme abortion and keep them guessing If It is really right or wrong. Birth controls are contraceptives. If you don't want or If you can't provide a child financially or emotionally , you are not ready to have sex. But If you have sex, you can use comtraceptives. They are cheap, universal and they have a very low percentage of failure when used correctly. ( I will have to make more comments because there is not enough space here)
Other thing you mention is that " even If It is morally wrong...". By this statement, you are relativizing moral and values. If you are alive now, It is because there is a law that say that killing is a crime, for example. So, we should not relativize moral and values, as they are the solid base of our relationships on society. Otherwise, we would be irrational animals that act only based on our insticts, but we are not. We have a heart to use ethics on our routine. Funny thing is that the same people that agree with abortion try to defend social minories ( poor people), stating that they "die during unsafe abortions" ( manipulated statistics, as I referred), but they are doing exactly the opposite: they are indirectly saying that poor people should not have children because their children will have awful lives. Only rich people should have children? that is the base of the program for population control. Search on the internet and you will see how we are manipulated every day by the media, the labels and the rich people on foundations ( Rockfeller, for example, google It), to think that children are a problem, and procriating should not be stimulated based on their manipulation.
Because a fetus is neither concious nor feels pain (up to a certain age) so there is absolutely no downside for it if it "dies". Killing a fetus is about as bad as killing a plant. Sure, technically it's sort of alive but that is it. Why force people to ruin their lives for no reason? Yes, an abortion ends a potential life, but if that is bad then every single time a man ejaculates outside of a vagina is half a murder, and every time a woman has her period is half a murder too. Cause if they had worked together they could have given a human a life. But they didn't. Are they murderers because of that? No, cause that is stupid. Either we treat a fetus like a plant that doesn't suffer any loss from an abortion, or we have to treat a fetus like a potential future human being that loses its potential future, which means that not ensuring that every woman is pregnant at all times in order to make as much babies as possible - cause what could become a human but doesn't counts as murder?
I'm so glad this brave anonymous added that update because he obviously has no idea the psychological damage being raped or being forced to carry your rapist's remind around for almost a year would do to most victims. He doesn't care about incest babies or children born who will be born with obvious mental or physical disabilities. Doesn't care about the 600k sitting in foster care, what's one more? What a lucky guy to never be forced to make such a difficult decision in his life, but think he has the right to judge others for their choices. I'm pro choice all day. A woman's body is their own business 🖕🏿
This is up for debate, as women still mourn the potential for this clump of cells to have been a child. People think abortions are easy choices, made lightly, simple as taking Plan B, but there's much more at stake.
The abortion happens before 12 weeks if I'm not mistaken. Before that time it is not a human so not a murder. You might be killing something but not a human, it's not human before 4 month.
To reiterate, some women still have an emotional response to conceiving, the potential to have a child, whatever stage of mitosis is going on. It still can be an emotional and traumatic experience to deal with
Pro-choice. The women getting abortions are often poor or would-be single moms so they can’t give children the proper resources. Kids raised in unfavorable conditions don’t usually turn out well and having thousands or millions of people with that kind of upbringing is harmful to the general population. Adoption is an option too, but unfortunately most women who shouldn’t be raising kids don’t put their babies up for adoption because it’s too painful and goes completely against motherly instinct. If they aren’t going to use resources like adoption in most cases and usually don’t produce well-adjusted members of society, abortion should still be on the table.
That is absurd you talk about abortion should be ok but ten you say adoption is too painful for the mother. Do you see the absurdity of that statement?
And you also said adoption doesn’t produce well-adjusted children so abortion should be on the table You are stuck in your own words you don’t know what the hell you’re even talking about do you
It’s ridiculous how many women prefer to take a life so they can avoid taking responsibility for their whoredom. If you don’t want a kid, well... 🤔 don’t do what causes it. DUH.
After reading some the posts on this... I am bewildered at how many people simply don’t know how to keep their legs closed. 😂 That by itself solves the problem.
Worse. Once you start abortion you get addicted to it. Thinking it's normal behavior. By time a teenage begins upto around 25 she probably been through at least 5 abortions. Some never get another chance to get pregnant.
Pro-life because life is sacred and murder is wrong. Most abortion don't happen due to rape they happen because women have unprotected sex without contraception and pregnancy is a natural consequence of that. A girl in college tried to get me removed from class because she felt threatened because she knew I was Pro-life even though I kept my opinions to myself, she went on a massive rant at me in class. Obviously she feels guilty and is mourning the death of the child she had killed so I didn't engage.
It's not a murder, you're not killing anyone. You prevent a fucked up life from happening. I can't even accept your opinion when you state something so wrong and horrible "murder" omg
I'll even go further, if it's a murder can they explain how the allow can tolerate murder? I don't believe God is saying life is a punishment for having sex or being raped.
I’m 100% pro choice. Every woman should be able to choose what she wants to do with her body. Imagine if someone was making you abort if you wanted a child. Why should it be any different if it’s the opposite? Also, how can you be pro life if that life means life without both parents/financial support/love and appreciation? I get that abortion is against some peoples beliefs but pro choice doesn’t make you abort a child, it just gives you and other people a right to choose what is best for yourself and for the child. I personally wouldn’t want to be born just because my mother knew she’d end up in prison for aborting me. It makes a serious scars for the child to know that it wasn’t wanted.
Pro life. Not only do I think its wrong to kill a fetus, I think that if you where just not stupid about it you could have avoided the issue all together as contraceptives are incredibly common and incredibly cheap. Their is simply no rational reason to require an abortion baring rape and the incredibly rare cases of defective birth control (in almost every case its simply used improperly i. e. she doesn't take the pill regularly like she is suppose to so that's why it fails i. e. human error (lazyiness or forgetfulness)).
The one you are now arguing with is just a murderer. She has a choice to choose her eternal destiny as all of us do. GOD will definitly judge her accordingly as all of us.
@Djaay I know what kind of person she is, I just don't tolerate liars. She isn't about choice, she is about avoiding responsibility at any cost and its disgusting. Bringing life into the world only to snuff it out because you can't be bothered to care is despicable on every level.
No... She advocates that she's got a murderous heart. That's her choice for her destiny eternally. Like I said , let GOD judge her for her immorality and murderous thoughts.
I am pro-life. I knew a woman at church about 15 years ago who kept her child after being raped. The Child was a wonderful, beautiful young woman at the time, and it would be a shame if she never existed.
Abortion is murder. Snow and I are opposed to Abortion under any circumstances. She isn't religious, well she believes in "a God", but I don't know what yet, but anyway she can see that abortion is morally wrong too.
The Golden Rule says, "Do unto Others as you would have them do unto you." The Silver Rule says, "Don't do to others what you don't want done to you." Abortion violates both the Golden Rule and the Silver Rule.
the Declaration of Independence states that we are endowed with a right to life from our Creator. If the right to life comes from the Creator, then it stands to reason that right is imparted at the moment of creation, which would be conception. Thus abortion violates the fundamental God-given rights of the unborn child.
My fundamental belief is from sexual education and birth control is the best way to lower the abortion rates.
The thing that brings my piss to a boil is abstinence only education and birth control is a sin. I get it, the catholic church wants more followers by not pulling out, that is a long term power move. Not everyone is a Christian. they shouldn't follow the same baby making policy.
You can't have abstinence only education and birth control as a sin without abortions. If you care more about abortion, you should leave the abstinence and birth control beliefs at the door that don't follow your sect. Are you going to pass out condoms at an anti abortion picket line? Every counter of planned parenthood has free ones.
Dogmatic pressure is not a way for people to make right decisions. I wish there was none but forcing that wish is going to create more.
I'm pro-choice. The whole point of making the US, where I live, was to make a country free from religious laws. If you don't like abortions or it's against your religion, then don't get one. It's that easy. It isn't your choice to decide what other women can do and not do to their body.
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Asker
+1 y
If it isn't paid by my tax payers do as u wish. I don't support paying for your illicit sexual activity. Men don't get to go sleep with prostitutes and send the bill to white house.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment this is what your tax dollars pay for - exactly what you think is okay. Prostitution isn't even legal in the US save for a few select locations so that isn't a valid point.
It is insane to try and tell a woman what to do with her situation I do not support feminism but are you gonna take care of all these kids that poor women would have if abortion was banned? Worry about your own life.
I don't mind if legal immigrants come here just I do not want illegals to come here. Either way abortions control the population in a way that if it gets banned will fuck everyone when it comes to food and resources at some point the middle class is dying also so you will have even more homeless people.
That's liberal b. s food scarcity is way to tell middle class control your spending. Real problem is wealthy like Amazon not paying their damn taxes. 11 billion in profits and $0 dollars in taxes. While I pay 26% of my share of $50,000 a year salary. That's b. s read it. www.businessinsider.com/amazon-not-paying-taxes-trump-bezos-2018-4
I am not disagreeing with that but think about it a true conservative is pro-abortion because we believe the government should not be up in your business.
I'm pro life in the sense that I think in most cases abortion is wrong, but I do think there is some grey areas like rape for example. I also don't support laws outlawing it because I don't think that would do any good, but I am against government funding it.
Let's say she gets raped and he knocks her up. Why would she want a kid from that union to be a CONSTANT life-long reminder of what happened to her? BEING raped would be a bad enough reminder!! Or, in the case of my ex-fiancé; she got pregnant from her first hubby and WANTED to have the baby, but it was a stillborn because of some physical thing to do with her that she didn't know she had and she had to carry around a dead baby in her for 2 or 3 months which REALLY freaked her out and turned her into a zombie!!! A few years later, she meets me and I get her pregnant twice. The first time, we just couldn't afford to have a kid. The second time, we decided to keep it but her Dr. told her she has some kind of condition where she might end up with another stillborn and she wanted NO part of THAT, again!!
Pro choice, no one should be forced to have a child they dont want. Most women that have abortions are druggies or dont have the money to raise a baby. And by the way you know women have been having abortions for a really really long time. This is nothing new and only recently has became a hot topic issue
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Anonymous
(25-29)
+1 y
Ok everyone is pro life no one likes abortions but I think there necessary.
Out of all the people who are pro life how many of them have adopted kids? How many of them volunteer time to help children that weren't wanted.
Just BC a parents gives birth to them doesn't mean they have the resources to take care of them or that they want to.
Also if a women is raped and gets pregnant should she have to carry the child of the monster? I don't think so
What if an abortion is necessary for saving the mothers life?
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Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
It’s a very difficult one, as there are so many angles to take into consideration such as health of the baby, health of the mother, rape victims...
Whilst I don’t personally agree with abortion outside of health issues and rape (for example: two people got drunk, had sex and got pregnant - you did it you deal with it) it is a persons free will and right to abort as they wish and that won’t be taken away.
As it stands the latest a woman can abort is 24 weeks in the UK, by which point a baby is fully developed with fingers, toes, nails and ears and is the size of a pomegranate. To me this is way to late to be aborting, and inhumanity becomes a factor.
It’s a sensitive issue... but I think the latest a woman can legally abort short be bought WAY down to a few weeks.
The problem with that is that most women aren’t aware of their pregnancy until some 5,6 weeks in. But often much later (especially for those girls that usually have irregular periods). Then the actual process of getting an abortion can take some time as you need multiple visits and you usually see a councillor before you can. So even if a pregnancy is detected early, an abortion won’t be complete until some 10-15 weeks. Currently, those seeking abortions nearer to the 24week mark do have to jump extra hoops. Another thing to consider is that the older the fetus the more complicated and painful the procedure will be. So in many ways abortions nearer to 24 weeks are reserved for special circumstances.
Firstly, it isn’t a law. It’s the Supreme Court looking at the Constitution and saying that the right to choose abortion is implied within the Constitution. That’s what the Supreme Court does, it interprets. If you really wanted to change a law, you would need to propose it, it would need to get through the Senate and the House of Representatives, and the President would need to allow it (in the case that he vetoes it, I believe it goes back and there needs to be a 3/4 majority if I’m not wrong).
Secondly, I don’t think you can or should undo Roe v. Wade. If you really wanted to stop abortions, this is the best thing I will say: Send financial aid to young mothers and support a Universal Basic Income. Why? This’ll stop abortion that is based off of financial need, which is probably the optimal course of action of you want to minimize abortions.
We're 8 fucking billions, there is millions of orphins why the heck would you make another orphib? Cause it's funny to probably never get a family? Plus 8 BILLIONS, what's the plan, building houses on clouds cause there is no more space on the ground? Killing even more our planet? I was born we were barely 6 billions like come on :o
"women bad sexual behavior" it takes a man and a woman to make a baby. Can't be only her fault religious man. And so you're way of thinking is like : let that baby have a hard life to teach that woman a lesson. YES! Let's talk about pregnancy because of rape and so I guess bad woman sexual behavior cause it's only her fault. We let her have the baby of her rapist to teach her not to wear skirt (lot of rapist say they did it because the woman was wearing a skirt and so "called for being raped wearing that outfit") :) god will be proud of you young man.
Why are you an Anonymous Coward asking this Question!! If you're so Morally Sound on this Opinion why Not Stand behind your Screen Name? Why do you just pointvout Women's bad behavior we don't get pregnant on our own!!! Many men want and insist on abortions, but they can and do walk away if she denies him the abortion!!! Men behave badly too!!!
Abortion shouldn't be an option at all and I'll stand behind that with my screen name. Many men insist on abortion because that murder option happens to be legal and those men don't want to be kicked out of a child's life left to pay for the child or go be criminalized if they don't. And neither of those should be allowed, not the abortions, nor forcing men to pay when they can't be a part of the child's daily life IE kicked to the side dad's. Outlaw abortion altogether and do away with child custody splitting making it 50/50 custody split and zero child support unless something is seriously wrong with a parent.
And respect your Opinion men have rights to their children too not just a Financial, many don't take the time to fike the petitions a d battle it out in Court I get its not easy, but its veryone counts on the Mom, Lawyers, Judge, County Social Workers that the Dad will just throw his arms up and waive the White Flag; it's also a way the Social Workers and Judges deem how much does the Dad really care. I'm involved in a lot of Custody Cases mainly because of DV. The Dads' that fight get more those that don't get less and both ways are Manipulative (in DV Custody cases I'm saying) those who don't fight trying to prove see I'm not Abusive? Those who are saying I Love my children at all costs and thet know if fight ling enough the Mom will more thsn likely drop everything and return to him...
Now many Men who insists on Abortions usually it's because they don't want kid themselves And don't want to be financially responsible.
Again, I respect your Opinion!! I always Respect thise who don't hide when talking about such a controversial tooic.
@R_Cakes91, some men be Cowards. I honestly Anonymous function on here, unless someone is a Dumbass to put their Actual Name as their Screen Name you're Anonymous!!! But to ask and state your view on such a Controversial Topic as Abortion and not have the Balls to Stand By it well that's a new Low...
No... haha I don’t mean being anonymous. I’m talking about how all the pressure is put on the woman to keep and raise the baby alone. Some men who knock up these women are huge cowards for not taking responsibility for their mistake.
@R_Cakes91, no I knew you were talking about the Cowards that Fuck and Duck!!! Love her and love her then she's preggers and they can't run fast enough...
There are many attorney's on record stating how the courts are biased against men and the system too. All the mom has to do is make one accusation against a man and he's toast. It's rigged against men. Once a false accusation is made he will spend everything he's got and it won't do him any good, attorney's saying that, not me. They know it's a losing game for men they state that openly. False accusations are a tool to steal child custody from men. And once a men lose their children, women turn around to accuse them of being a deadbeat dad. That's what the red pill of MGTOW is, it exposes all those things. Men are so demonized in the US and the west that went can't have anything to do with children at all. It's a game ran by women and the gov, they want men having nothing to do with children. If a man were to stop to ask directions from a girl on her way to school, he would make the 6 o clock news with a predator alert. There is no future for men marriage or children left in the US or the west. We men have been unjustly robbed of our dignity, which is exactly why I'll soon be moving to Russia never looking back.
@R_Cakes91 Paternity are almost useless. And paternity does no good when I child is ripped off out of someone's life. Yes, men love children too, SURPRISE TO ALL THE FEMINIST OUT THERE!
@R_Cakes91 I agree. But regardless men end up paying child support even when they courts know they're not the biological fathers. As far as abortion goes, I never have and I never will support abortion, I am firmly against it, it's murder end of story. I also wouldn't date either way much less get married. Way too many false allegations made against men and boys. If it didn't get them criminally it would ruin them in society. I'm done with the west, soon moving on.
If you don't want to raise a child yourself, fine, you don't have to, you can put the child into the foster care system, set up a closed adoption with another family. A child has near infinite potential. They could grow up to do great things, change the future of humanity, or not. But robbing that child of his/her opportunity to realize that potential, all because he/she is an inconvenience to you, is indescribably selfish and shameful.
I think publicly funded maternity leave, child care, and sex education would probably eliminate abortions overnight. But for some reason religious voters don't see the disconnect in voting for republicans to ensure that doesn't happen.
Put another way, don't force other people to live by the things you decided for them unless you are eager to pay for them to do so comfortably.
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You're right however do all people need women to have abortions? Idea came because shame connected to being pregnant. Yet today we see 14 years old pregnant anyhow by choice. Without proper parenting skills people should not be allowed to get married let alone get pregnant.
if you are saying that some women shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant then you are saying some women need to have abortions. Because if you're trying to use a pro-life stance as a thinly veiled attempt to slut shame, then that just makes you "typical".
What if the woman is raped? What if the child is a product of incest? What if the woman is taking birth control and using condoms at the same time and doing everything she can to prevent a pregnancy but unluckily she gets pregnant anyways? Not all women who get pregnant when they don't want a kid did it because of bad sexual behaviour or choices
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Rape happens all over the world do u see any women having abortion.
My point was 652,000 females were raped in U. S last year. Out of which none had a single baby from those rapes none went to abortion. So save me the abortion helped rape victims.
Save me your pro-life bullshit especially since you most likely don't give shit where those babies end up? Oh they end up with the countless of other children in foster care waiting their whole lives to be adopted? Pro lifers don't give two shits about what happens after. It's not "pro life", it's "pro birth" because I have never seen a pro lifer give a shit if the baby has a decent life and family.
Yes. Abortions happen everywhere and all the time. It also used to happen in the past. My grandma used to perform abortions in her town. She used to do it with a piece of sharp metal wire. The problem with this was that often these procedure were more dangerous and complications followed. Now medicine advanced enough to allow these to be performed safely with minimal danger to the woman.
@ciitruskiwi I couldn’t agree more. Pro-lifers often have this romanticised idea of what it is like to have a child. Or otherwise lack empathy for those that they know will struggle bringing up the child. They will very happily walk past a starving child on the street but still think that all abortion is immoral. Hypocrites of the finest breed.
Erm, most abortions are not from sluts using it as birth control. And you condemn a child to a poor life just to "teach a lesson" to someone, so the child ends up in care and that costs the tax payers money even more.
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Where is the father who impregnated her, where is her parents like state of Texas where parents are responsible for their kids actions until 18. I don't see why were helping parents who allow this kind of behavior in their homes.
parents could be dead if she's an orphan and growing up in the state's care... It's nothing to do with "allowing" anything, its about the potential mother and the embryo, and what is the best choice for them both.
@victoriaxoxo Developed or not, what do you think is in there Toyota or a ham radio? Well last time I checked they are human and if you can't figure that out, you have some development issues of your own.
@ThisAndThat It's a cluster of cells. If you can't figure that out, maybe the development issues lie with you... and to answer that question, yes. If I was to be disabled and nothing more than a vegetable, then yes. If I was going to be born (like i was ) into a dysfunctional, abusive relationship that then went onto the kids, I think I'd have preferred it.
You believe that women should be punished for the "crime" of being raped, by being forced to raise a child they do not want and are not prepared to raise, probably to live in poverty while religious people like you try to cut off all funding for women forced into poverty by people like you? Your religion teaches you this?
Pro choice. We don't force anyone to donate one of our kidneys or even just some blood eventhough it could safe lifes. It's not even allowed to Take those from dead bodies. So why should a women be forced to safe an Potential Life?
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When you say pro-choice, who's choice are you referring to? I'm guessing it's not the child's choice.
I believe abortion should be an option for women under certain circumstances, but not used as just another means of birth control as it is in most cases today.
Most abortions happen when a woman is "not ready to become a mother". Men have no such option when they are not ready to become a father but it is forced on them by the other parent's choice. Until that changes, and men have a fair and equal ability to opt out of parenthood the way women can, I will never support abortion the way it exists today.
Abortion should be a planned contraception alternative but it should be available. Unwanted pregnancy isn’t just a result of bad behaviour, accidents happen (condoms breaking, etc). Without abortions there would be a lot more children up for adoption. If a woman is getting an abortion after being raped it is a small clump of cells that are being killed, it’s not a child yet and she has been through more than enough, she shouldn’t have to live with a reminder of what happened
What's the difference between a small clump of cells and a large clump of cells? The difference is the small clump of cells doesn't get a choice not to be murdered, but you yourself the large (clump of cells) are protected from it. Think that's fair? I don't.
The small clump of cells isn’t capable of making that choice and can’t feel at the time abortions are usually done. Fairness is irrelevant, the person with the most power always makes the choices.
If the woman dislikes the child, there is a huge possibility that the child will have psychological problems as an adult, why not put the child's and the people around him's suffering at an early end? It just that she should abort within the first month before the fetus develops into a child. There is enough insanity in society, the choice will create less disturb people. No murderers were born into loving families that guides their child well
we were 6 years ahead of you in the uk except northern Ireland ofcourse and to be honest, whilst there is a smally pro life lobby its very small and in reality most people see that horrible choice as a thing only the individuals involved can address so on that basis i am pro choice but not in the active way you see pro choices in america because we dont need to be active about it
Pro life I believe that.. Yes I know the baby is in her body but I believe that.. The baby is another human as well yes i know it not completely born yet but still..
Because women can understand and handle their own newborns/children, and when women want to get pregnant they can, but when it is forced upon them then they leave that situation, then they have a child they might not be able to afford or have time for.
I am pro life because I believe abortion is murder! Abortion is never about choice and it has never been about choice. It’s about escaping the consequences of YOUR choice by taking away the choices from ANOTHER HUMAN LIFE! The zygote/embryo/fetus is not another part of the woman’s body. It’s another human life!
Actually in those developmental stages it is literally a part of a woman’s body, in every way. Even in the law there is a rule on what qualifies as a human being and what doesn’t according to this idea that a fetus cannot survive outside the womb on its own (as in it won’t be able to eat yet and it’s organs can’t function properly) so for that reason it is not yet a human being.
Pro choice and I laugh at the people who use the bible to say unborn fetuses are the same as born humans. The penalty in the bible for destroying a foetus is a small fine to the magistrate. If someone pays that fine, is it acceptable?
If the bible equates an unborn child with an inanimate object and has the same penalty for destroying it, why should it be anything more?
Life. Make sure the person you have sex with is your husband or some one you would not mind having a child with. Children are important and they need to be fed and cared for
@preston1997 Females these days, their body count as a minimum body count of 10 and the average is much higher than that. A huge percentage of them these days are exactly that.
I’m pro life but I’m also pro BIRTH CONTROL and pro adoption. I’m willing to pay more in taxes to do anything possible to prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. I also think the adoption process needs a massive overhaul to make the process faster, safer and easier for couples wanting to adopt.
All these stupid ass politicians are missing the entire point on this.
Yes, the government needs to get out of the way and leave it between the two parties to settle it. It's not a they care about the child thing, it's a they want to make maximum money out of the deal thing. There's way too much evidence proving they could care less about the welfare of children IE abortion case and point.
I've heard and understood all the excuses and reasons of the pro-choicers, but I still stand with allowing a child to live even if its life was unexpected and puts a major dent in my pocket. A life is priceless.
I don’t think you’d feel the same if you knew someone in that situation. I’m not against what you’re saying at all, but I have personal experience with this. I was born as a result of rape and obviously my mother chose to keep me (I wish she hadn’t as her life would have had a better change at happiness), but then her abuser went on to sexually abuse my two siblings. The whole situation could have been easily avoided..
And to be honest unless pressured by the family members, any rape victims I’ve heard or read about haven’t ever aborted the child. It’s the irresponsible women who had a choice to get pregnant who carelessly go out and get pregnant and then abort it like it’s no issue. I don’t agree with that.
What are your thoughts on the father of a child having rights of opinion if a mother chooses to abort. Should he?
At what age is it wrong to kill a child? Conception? Heartbeat? Quickening? Second Trimester? Third Trimester? Labor Pains? Birth? Crawling? Walking? Talking?
If some of these are okay, but others are not, please explain what makes the difference?
Pro choice. I dont necessarily like that women get abortions and i would feel bad getting one BUT, the option should be there, and its THEIR body and THEY get to do what THEY want with THEIR body
@victoriaxoxo > You don’t make sense. How is someone deciding on whether they are ready to bring a human life into this world the same as prostitution or strip clubs?
Because you are using your body as a sex tool both ways and being irresponsible.. Abortion is actually worse in that you are still being promiscuous both ways but yet you make money with prostitution instead of using that money to kill a life.
Those guys have the phone number of god, guys can you text him, he gave me a body with muscle also I'd let extra money to buy a Nintendo switch to play Zelda. Thanks!
Also, would it be so bad to legalize prostitution? If done it would be easier to protect those women from violence, they could be more respected and easier to proctect from the gangs who kidnap young lady to force them to sell their body.
I'm not against the existence of God, I'm against the existence of brains.
I don't like to see someone disrespecting prostitutes. I'm against those doing it against their will or sad doing it but some people actually enjoy selling their body and shouldn't be insulted for that. If the god you praise support the way you think, I'll be friend with Hitler in helll, not cause I support his actions cause I would have find way worst.
@preston1997 prostitution is someone intentionally having sex with the expectation of being paid. Abortion is literally someone having sex perhaps with their partner or even husband and accidentally getting pregnant. Then realising that right now they cannot bring a child into this world for whatever reason and choosing to terminate the pregnancy before the child finishes developing so it doesn’t have to go through the suffering of being born to unloving parents/parents that can’t look after the child. Other than sex, there is nothing similar between prostitution and abortions.
I'm not actually against abortion, but I think it shouldn't be a choice. These days, women can just decide "oh this baby is inconvenient for me, so take it out." That, I think, is horrible. If you want to spare a child a life full of hardship and misery that's one thing, but if your reasons are just to make your own life easier, that's just wrong.
A murder is Christian people burning Muslims cause they refused to change religion. Or killing black people because they are black. Going on war in the name of, killing people you don't even know. Selling guns like they won't be used to kill a human. The colonisation of the USA (a bit in the name of god) Accepting every kind of slavery in the name of god Agreeing with fascism and so Hitler Accepting every kind of dictator and showing your agreement Pedophilia (abortion isn't any help for that) Slaughtering Indian in America. The inquisition.
All that is murder, abortion is not :) I'm not against religion, but the worst thing of earth happened thanks to religious people who can't understand a single thing from the book they' re reading. Not all of them.
Pro-life, but I do not believe in criminaliing abortion. Why? There is no societal consensus and, frankly, I think government already has too much power. And how do you enforce such a law without violating all kinds of rights to privacy and against unreasonable searches? The proper course, in my opinion, is education. Change the hearts and you do not have to worry about the laws.
Mostly pro life. In that I believe society shouldn't encourage degenerate casual sex amongst young people. It's about accepting the consequences of your actions.
If your child has got a syndrome or deadly disease however. I don't believe he/she should be born. From the fact that the child would suffer greatly in life...
The child is a victim to his/her mother's sexual degeneracy. Don't ever think the mother be more of a victim than the child...
And yes. I'm talking about normal circumstances here. Don't come at me with the rape thing. Happens so rarely compared to the women who can't handle consequences.
Actually I think it is more correct to think of the pregnancy is a side effect of pregnancy. Sometimes an unwanted side effect that needs to be dealt with. A sentient human being is more valuable than a bunch of cells. If you don’t like sex just say it and be done with it, don’t expect others to be like you.
Protoss! I mean i just support choice not abortion. She has the choice to keep it to and i don't care. I don't see a fetus as a human life because fetus is a fetus not a baby but if you're going to make a straw man argument about a fetus is a baby therefore a fetus is also a sperm which millions of them die during production.
@Nachowedgie It doesn't matter. No one remembers what being a fetus is like so the fact that they can "feel anything" would be pointless. And a fetus don't have any reputation, ID, citizenship and even a name to begin with. When science only said it is a living thing, pro lifes make strawman argument saying they're already a human life. Well it matters but to you however I have a different point of view.
Then I would just end up like millions of my siblings. Also millions of your siblings. So? It's a baby in your opinion. And if you're gonna keep pushing your point of view on others by trying to make laws for it then maybe we should also make laws of people who don't support choice
@Nachowedgie Then discard a single sperm and egg all together with a total of 46 chromosomes. It won't make any difference. Every time a girl is on her period, she kills 23 chromosomes. A guy during sex kills more than 23 million chromosomes. So it has to be 46 to be a human being? 46 already means human being? That's what we call strawmanning. I guess doritos are evil because it's triangle and triangle is illuminate so we should stop eating it then.
In response to what ever that was, you are now no longer making any sense whatsoever. I can only ask, what drugs have you been taking?
In response to your second part here is the definition of what a straw man argument is, because evidently you have no idea what it is so now you can educate yourself
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".
@Nachowedgie It doesn't take a genius to understand people having different point of views. Now lets mix flour, eggs, milk, water and sugar. Now it's already a cake! Not a batter but a cake! I don't care if it's not baked yet. Just eat it anyways lol. Fuck logic. I'm just arguing at your level.
@Nachowedgie And that's one example of straw manning you're doing. Because you think it's a fact then what? What are you gonna do about it if I kill a fetus? Get triggered and start attacking me for it?
There has been no straw manning in this entire sequence of responses, I just provided you with the definition of what a straw man is, if you want to continue to be ignorant then you're more of a fool than I'd first thought.
My thought's on whether or not it's a fact are irrelevant as it already is.
I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3
@Nachowedgie Oh now you think that law is everywhere when there are places where abortion is legal. And I wonder why? (sarcastic) And there's that one reaction saying ignorant just to dismiss argument coming from someone ignorant enough about legal abortion in a lot of places. I'm not talking about your place. I'm talking about the average. Supporting laws for abortion because? Like what I said, triggered. Look here if you have the choice to keep your fetus even if you're raped then I don't care. I don't have to support laws like you do like "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for not aborting an unwanted child"
I never said anything about the law being everywhere, that there is a straw man. But when someone murders a pregnant women they're charged with two accounts of murder, not just one, because the unborn child is recognised as a human being under the law, at least in the west.
I'm aware abortion is legal in places so I'm not the ignorant one here. Now you're just making desperate assumptions.
The actual quote was "I wouldn't have to do anything because you'd be arrested and put in prison for murder :3" Don't deliberately misquote what I say. You're only discrediting yourself even further.
@Nachowedgie Your law says it really clear. But that's not everyone's law. It's just like when the religious rules are pushed into the law book. And if you're not ignorant about the legality of abortion in other places then you wouldn't have use argumentum ad verecundiam "because the law says so" even tho not all laws are the same. And that law don't even apply to the whole western world. And way to prove me right about the go to argument saying "ignorant" to dismiss everything. And well aware I deliberately copy pasted that quote while I edited the last part which is something a pro abortion would say.
@Nachowedgie@Nachowedgie Also I never said murder a pregnant woman. I said "kill a fetus" which you assumed ironically that I murdered a pregnant woman. If someone gets charged double for killing a pregnant woman, that would be the law in where you live. Not everyone else's. AKA a law with a different point of view. And just because it's your law, that won't make it automatically a fact. Because in other places, abortion is legal so that would make it a fact that they're not human babies. But sure if wouldn't make sense to say "fact in your opinion" So you educate yourself. One does not simply get validated for just throwing ad hominems like that
Abortion is legal in England, Ireland, America as well as many other places, if you murder a pregnant women in England, Ireland or America you are charged with a double murder because under the law the unborn child is recognised as a separate living human being.
This is a prime example of where laws conflict with one another
I am educated, unlike yourself. As you didn't even know what a straw man was until I told you
Here is also the definition of an as hominem as you clearly don't know what that is either
"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining"
@Nachowedgie I as well is educating myself unlike you. Lets see, "England, Ireland, America" Of over 200 nations. While I can see why they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. Here's another factor for you. That pregnant woman is loved by her husband and he also love her fetus. While that case of mourning about a fetus is common, it became a standard law. Basically like charged for killing a woman and charged for destroying someone's property or destroying something he loves. But I see you won't think about that but instead you just wanna stick to your own fallacy.
I don't sympathize someone who destroys his own car but I do if his home got destroyed by someone. Not feeling bad for the car itself. Even if someone destroyed his car and he's like nothing, he's still violating the law of destroying someone's property. So yes that still explain how we don't see fetus as a human life. Because it would be ironic if abortion is legal but they get charged double for killing a pregnant woman. That just like destroying a car while someone's in it.
"So yes that still explain how we don't see a fetus as a human life" That's the opposite of the truth though because abortion is legal in these places and people get charged double for killing a pregnant woman, so yes it is ironic.
@Nachowedgie Like what I said your law. Or the law in where you live. Not everywhere. Your law followed that point of view but if there's no law, that would still be a fallacy. Like you know if someone say "I had abortion" then would say "murderer" when there's a big difference between the act killing someone who is born and aborting a fetus. And if you're gonna admit how ironic it is, then that would explain how I talked about the law of destroying someone's property just like the car example.
@Nachowedgie Speak for those "many places" Who thinks there's no difference.
"The doctor who'd murdered the child would be the murderer" Because you're talking about a child. Again in your point of view. When I say "your" I mean you as a plural. While you're talking about "laws at many places" why can't I talk about laws in many other places? If you're gonna say yours is a fact because it's in the law and im gonna say mine is a fact because it is also not in the law then it can't be a fact if both claims contradicts each other.
The scenario where England, Ireland, America and other else made it legal, but killing a pregnant girl can get you to be charged twice, if you think that has something to do with the law who claims a fetus is a human, then it should be legal to abort their 5 year old kid because they regret it 5 years later.
While you yourself admitted its ironic to legalize abortion but the law charges someone double for killing of pregnant women. I just debunked that irony for you. So the reason why they made it legal it's because they don't see it as a human child. I'm not speaking for all people living in there but don't see it as a human child. That's why i said in your opinion in where you live where law says it is murder, in other places it isn't
I'm pro choice because it's not my body in question. As a man, what gives me the right to decide what a woman can do with their body. Plus, it's not always because of "bad sexual behavior" on the part of the woman, as rape and health complications due to the pregnancy are (unfortunately) fairly common.
Pro choice because abortion is a good thing it controls the population it is as simple as that. Also how are you gonna tell someone they need to raise a child and go into debt just because you think they should? That is crazy talk.
So lets say for example this girl and boy are going to have a child. They have no jobs no schooling how do they take care of the child? Child grows up in foster care then the sex trade and drugs etc...
Does anyone know about the coat hanger project? I don't expect people to be educated.
Women who are EVIIL have been duped by EVIL men who have spun a web of legality for EVIL women to fall before GOD himself as a murderer. To spin women into the web of the darkness through humanism and legalism , the very principles of WITCHCRAFT. Pro-choice becomes your coven and you eternal destiny if you march to the drum beat of the darkness.
Pro choice. To annoy religious fanatics and misogynists. Those aren't my real reasons, but any other explanation would be lost on pro-lifers, so I won't bother.
Anything with a heart beat is living thing. As early as 6 weeks. Given most women don't have regular period a little day and she Is killing a living soul. Life is determined by heart beat.
This is actually untrue. The latest a woman can abort in the UK is 24 weeks by which point a baby is almost fully developed with fingers, toes, nails and ear drums. The baby would also be the size of a pomegranate. By all intents and purposes it’s a human.
@Thotkiana Actually, legally a human is something that at one point was already able to live without any support. So no, it isn’t a human in that sense.
@MayorGoldieWilson 24 weeks is usually the very maximum allowed for exceptional circumstances (where giving birth would be fatal to the mother for example).
There are many living ‘things’ we kill everyday. You step on a plant you kill a living thing. Heartbeat isn’t even the distinguisher between living and dead in so many situations. The sole act of a muscle contracting isn’t what makes us human.
Victoriaxoxo... Law Grad you mentioned. If you study the very origins of law itself , you'll then realize they come from GOD. Practicing humanism and legalism; are both a toxic cocktail. They're the foundations of (WITCHCRAFT) .
LOL It is a human. The taxonomy, which includes the classification of an organism from Domain to Species, is determined by DNA, which exists in every single individual cell. What other species did you have sex with that wasn't human? Lmao and I hope you don't mind me screenshotting this and posting it on other social medias because it's kind of funny lol
@Djaay I'm a witch and I practice witchcraft and I don't think you know the first thing about witchcraft. Stop trying to paint witchcraft as evil or satanic. Also if your are trying to win an argument with someone bringing up religious beliefs that your colleague doesn't believe will do no good.
@Djaay Actually different laws have different sources. In fact most have multiple. In most cases it is actually religion that derived its rules from existing laws.
@victoriaxoxo Check your facts. Neither of those is human, considering that they are non-living matter. Nail clippings are not live cells, and neither does your period contain live cells. Your period is obviously a blood flow, and yes there are blood cells, but if the cells are dead like they are in your period then there is no species because the DNA that codes it within the nucleus is dead. Therefore it is non-living matter, and non-living matter is not taxonomized. So biologically yes, an egg and sperm that have bonded in fertilization within gestation is absolutely human. Trust me, you as a law grad shouldn't try to debate me on biological principles because I'm a biochemistry major with both parents as medical doctors and I'm soon to be one. If you would like to debate something more political then I'm sure you would kick my ass lol but not when it comes to biology :) But the point is that she is practicing whoredom and is too weak to take responsibility for her actions when she could've just avoided the entire crisis altogether. She would prefer to make bad decisions and take a life over being smart and not taking on a consequence that she can't handle.
@Rica_ChicaUSA First of all when I said human I meant they can be identified to belong to a human. They came from a human being. Secondly, cells from menstruation blood can go as far as be used to develop heart cells. So I don’t know WHERE you got your major from. And just to reiterate my previous point, because a bunch of cells accumulated and multiplied doesn’t mean that the being they created is sentient. Otherwise we’d have a very hard time operating tumours.
@victoriaxoxo They are used to make artificial heart cells, yes, and if you look at the process of how that is performed you’ll see that the menstruation is not completed normally. If the blood flow with those cells was to stay out in the open alone, just say, those cells would not survive that way. Specific procedures have to be performed, and things have to be manipulated. One of the main and most well-known laws of science is that you can take something living and make it non-living but you can’t take something non-living and make it living. And by the way... my major is from Yale. 😊 if you don’t believe me, you can find me in the list of 2019 biochemistry grads from Yale. They are posted online. #IvyLeaguer
@Rica_ChicaUSA But that still doesn’t change the fact that it is menstruation. Blood of any kind will still carry DNA which just reiterates the point I made earlier. I don’t completely understand why you feel like this DNA is somehow less important than DNA from an embryo? You mentioned living becoming dead and the potential for growth that embryo has but so do so many other cells when they multiply? So what exactly distinguishes the fetus in its early stages of development from other cells that multiply (grow)? Without attaching any religious or superstitious beliefs, how do you make that distinction?
Because you’ve created a new life, a completely new human being. That’s been my point the whole time. When the gametes come together, the DNA of a new individual is made, as opposed to the menstruation thing or if you cut skin cells and things of that nature. Not only have you created new life, but also the cells of that new life won’t continue to multiply if you kill it altogether. That’s the same with other cells too, as you mentioned, but you’re allowing your own cells to multiply and heal instead of killing them altogether.
@Rica_ChicaUSA But why place so much value to the idea of cells multiplying? Does the sole fact of a new combination of DNA warrant it unconditional protection? With new combinations of DNA being made and broken a trillion times per day, what exactly makes it so special? I see you are hinting at the potential of the said cells to grow into a baby but why are you so reluctant to waste this potential?
It is not that I don’t agree with the biological nature of your argument but I just think that some of your main points are largely grounded in some personal belief. Biology on its own doesn’t dictate that an embryo or even a fetus is anymore magnificent than any bug crawling on the floor. Why give some human embryo so much priority?
@victoriaxoxo That’s true. As for the biology, I was originally only correcting the poster who said that it’s not human yet. But to answer your question, the emphasis should be placed on responsibility and that women shouldn’t practice whoredom if they don’t want children. That’s where babies come from. If you don’t want a child, then don’t have sex. It works every time. If you don’t do the cause, then don’t do the effect. And if you practice the cause, then you should take responsibility for your own actions instead of killing the effect and starting it all over again. That’s literally being a whore.
@Rica_ChicaUSA I feel like that excludes so many cases where the pregnancy wasn’t a result of casual sex. For example, my mum had an abortion about 4 years ago. She got pregnant because her monthly contraceptive didn’t work as expected. The sex she had was with her husband (my dad). She was already caring for my younger brother who was only 4/5 at the time. Due to the credit crunch and lay offs, my family couldn’t afford to have another child. So she had an abortion some 8-10 weeks into her pregnancy. Why shouldn’t she be allowed to do this? And why is her sleeping with her husband considered ‘whoring around’?
As to the point about it not being human (yet). I think it was meant to mean human in the sense that it isn’t sentient yet. Which is why I spoke about it being biologically human how blood cells are human to which you added that there is the potential of it becoming a baby (and by that you probably meant sentient?) to which I added why does that on its own mean anything? There must be some belief behind why you’d attach so much meaning to it, which you might not attach to the preservation of non-human life. Meaning which inevitably goes beyond any solely scientific reasoning.
why i chose pro choice, accidents happen and if someone can't afford to take care of themselves than it's irrational to bring a child into the world if you know before hand that you'll be broke indefinably.
Well pregnancies can be hard and painful Why go through something like that when you didn't even want it. who would want to be a child to a rapist also pregnancies can ruin lives. There are many reasons out there this post is just dumb.
... because woman don't always want a child. Accidental pregnancies exist. If someone wanted a child they wouldn't get an abortion unless it was a life and death matter
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