I'm asking this because in German, some words no longer exist because of the heightened sensitivity of the population towards problems with racism. This is "Mohr im Hemd", a dessert with a fairly racist name, and there is an ongoing debate on whether it should be changed or not.Mohr im HemdPrinting "Negerküsse" is now banned, it's also a dessert which is now called "Schokoküsse"This was ages ago obviouslyA Schokokuss/SchaumkussFinally, there is the "Mohrenkopf", yet another dessert. The desserts are all brown, the names are racist towards POC.Mohrenkopf (derived from a french word)I noticed that this artist uses the German N. word, "Neger", in this song to criticise racism (at 2:34). It's based on Roberto Blanco, one of the few widely accepted POC in Germany (though he was called "ein wunderbarer Neger", where wunderbar means wonderful)
Not often, but expecting all languages to bend over backwards to the sensitivities of 1 is ridiculous.
Back in the Philippines, a Korean-trained Filipino band SB19 got in trouble for posting (「Hello, Negros!」) on Twitter. https://twitter.com/sb19official/status/1208376341688549377 Problem: Here, 'Negros' isn't racist. It's an island divided into 2provicnes with Spanish names: Negros Oriental ("NEG-ros or-yen-TAL"; 「Eastern Negros」) & Negros Occidental ("NEG-ros ok-sih-den-TAL"; 「Western Negros」).
Negros Oriental (red) & Occidental (white)
So, people got angry… without properly researching the context and realizing there's NO REASON to be angered. (And if they absolutely need to be angry, they should blame invading Spaniards who arrived in 1565 as conquistadores and named the island & provinces as such.)
And I've heard of Chinese getting in trouble for saying 那個 ("nei-ge"; 「that one」), since it does sound like the n-word when pronounced. There's even 買那個 ("mai nei-ge"; 「Buy that one」), which sounds like 'my n—'. Can you imagine someone just asking a loved-one to buy something (with no malice intended), only to incur an outsider's wrath? Was there reason? Sure! Was there substantial reason? Nope!
I understand that insults hurt, but the world doesn't revolve around English insults. Other places have other languages with vastly different (even 'utterly unrelated') contexts for similar-sounding sound-combinations with vastly different (even 'utterly unrelated') meanings from the expected English. Some things really are non-malicious coincidences. Not everyone outside the U. S. hates African-Americans.
Thank you for sharing your insight on this topic. I also got into trouble when saying goodbye to my friend on the phone with the words "Bussi Baba" which means "Kiss and goodbye" but sounds like "pussy papa" :I Another word for female genitalia is fud, which sounds like food, and when one of my male teachers said "all men care about is food" (in English, he's Austrian though and knows the word), the class room grew very quiet.
Because the German language focuses heavily on gender, people are now mocking the new complexity of the sentences: what used to be "Liebe Lehrer und Schüler" (dear teachers and students) is now "Liebe Lehrer, Lehrerinnen, Schüler und Schülerinnen". I know that other languages have these problems as well, and I think that it shouldn't be overlooked what people are trying to do. We have a lot of words for certain jobs where only the male or female form is commonly used and this is no longer culturally accepted by the broad acadmical "elite". Others say that they do not like "gendern" ="gendering", but it can all be avoided when writing your theses at high school and university in English. Women were only given the right to vote in 1971 in our neighbouring country, Switzerland. This shows how we still need to work on showing men and women that they're equally appreciated, although German makes this a little harder.
The problem with the n-word is much more serious and everyone from a place (UK, Belgium, France, Germany etc.) that used to own colonies really shouldn't use it in my opinion.
Interesting! I had no idea German had this issue. Well, I guess every language has its drawbacks. Tagalog is already gender-neutral from the start… so mentioning gender as needed is a conscious, extra task. And forgetting to do so (with insufficient clues in context) can result in all sorts of misunderstandings. (I remember 1instance I was kid invited to a birthday party of neighbors with both a son & daughter, with similar names. Due to a mix-up, I ended-up with the wrong gift. 😬 I was never invited again.)
I'm black and I use the N-word sometimes. In both a term of endearment ("what up n! gga?") with other blacks but also in a serious insult ("that is one sad n! gger") if I'm criticizing black people who worship whites, are Republican, are black managers who treat other black employees like shit and want to please their white superiors, or want so badly to be like white people.
Germany's got its ugly racist history, we're certainly away of that, and it did include how they viewed blacks just as often as how they viewed Jews. So I do think it's offensive and unnecessary to name their desserts with insulting terms representative of blacks, especially that Negerkusse one you posted. That is pretty offensive, yeah.
But it isn't just Germany. Other cultures also have their own unkind words for blacks. Salvadorans, and some other Latinos but mostly Salvadorans, have the word "mayate" for black people, which means "dung beattle" and which to me is actually worse than being called a n! gger. Salvadorans are actually famous for their racism towards black people and think we're all stupid and don't know about that word "mayate" when some of us do. Other Latinos use "negros." In the Philippines they call the black skinned ones "aetas." And I know there are definitely other Asian nations with racist words for blacks.
I agree with you and I already responded to some people here that there are bad insults for other cultures as well. I will say though that while those may be alright in a certain context (e. g. when someone calls me something that I would find offensive but it's coming from my friends, we're joking around and it's fine), using the n-word isn't targeting one culture but black people specifically and that's not okay.
I've had a boyfriend of mine tell me that black people prefer to be called "Neger" as opposed to "schwarz" (black) or "dunkelhäutig" (dark skinned). He had a small group of friends, of which three were black, and I found it astonishing how he was justifying himself using this word.
Definitely agree. It IS targetting one culture and that is very sad. I highly doubt blacks like being called "Neger." That is no doubt his justification.
But on the issue of the Aetas, the term isn't an insult. It's their name. Our original ancestors were 3people-groups: Malay (「Malaysians」), Indones (「Indonesians」), and Aetas… who were also called by the Spaniards Negritos ("neh-GREE-tos"; 「small black」, since they were smaller & blacker than the taller Spaniards). That's just their name. In all my years, I have never heard or read it used as an insult ever.
But you are right in mentioning some racism back in the PH. The standard for beauty is largely affected by White European & American (plus now white Korean & Japanese) standards, so lighter skin is praised, while darker skin is ridiculously considered 'ugly' to the point of skin-whitening creams being sold in stores & our counterpart to the U. S.'s Saturday Night Live regularly 'jokes' mocking their darker-skinned crew every week. Even I hate this idea. (My older-sister inherited darker skin from my maternal-grandfather, while the rest of us are lighter-skinned, even mistaken as Chinese of Koreans. You can imagine the rumors & insults my sister & family encountered over the years.) And it's not like the darker-skinned compatriots are foreigners. They've been with us from the very beginning! How is this still there‽
@N192K001 I'm aware that Aetas is their name, technically. One of my Filippina co-workers told me though not to really use it because it's considered somewhat offensive.
Im not in Germany but in the USA so I agree. I don’t think it should ever be okay to use racism in any way ever it’s wrong and should be something left in the past already.
I think we should make a distinction between legally banning something, as opposed to culturally condemning or ostracizing a term. I'm sure Western European Nations are more comfortable with legally banning a word than the U. S. is. I think hard cultural shaming or shunning should be sufficient.
Not trying to say that I don't want to be kissed by a POC (I really don't mind), but imagine going to a supermarket and reading something similar there, a name of a product, racist against white people... People would freak out in my opinion
Yeah, but it has become a new trend among white racists to point out racism against whites and claiming it has become more common than racism against non-whites. Which is nonsense of course, but that's how they turn the tables and distract from the rampant racism going on that they are okay with.
I am ashamed at how I acted when I was young and now I don't like the word and really regret so many things from my past and my heart goes out to everyone on this planet that suffers beging ignorance and intolerant people terrible to think what my ancestors have done and to think that if I was around back then I probably would of been as evil as the rest at least when I was young. If we could just look at each other as human beings and remember we're all just here for a short time and we leave behind our kids and grandkids to deal with what we created and if it doesn't change drastically we will just destroy our race the human race. I'm no better then you and you're no better then me black brown white red yellow green rainbow rich poor this religion or that religion short tall skinny fat male or female stop feeding the lie that any one group is better than another when you break it down it's petty and ignorant. Why can't we just learn from one another just think what we could accomplish if the human race could work together.
Thank you for adding this reply. I agree with you, and I have a clear stance on using the n-word because I think it's degrading and ignorant and nobody deserves this. It's the same when someone says "Schlitzauge" to someone with a monolid, it's a German word used by teens to insult each other that doesn't show they're showing respect for their diversity. Anyways, thank you.
I don't use it, mainly because I just have a use for the word and try not to upset people.
But, and now the unpopular opinion comes into play, I think either everyone or no one should be allowed to use it. Because the argument, "I am black I am allowed to use it but you are white you are no" is plain and simple also racist because you exclude people from using a word based on there skin colour. You either should have rules that count for everyone or why bothering having rules at all?
In my opinion words don't have power and ask meself why don't we all try to get along with each other? But that is unfortunately not how society works.
A word in itself can't be 'insulting' - it's the context and the intention that counts. To me, at least. I met Rwandans who enjoyed to call each other 'nigger' - and it was fun. Those who see racism at each corner, and who now believe that something needs to be done: They should think about it WHY this 'racism' is stuck in their heads. If we would just ignore it... it would not pop up each time we leave our house. For the time being, I refuse to be censored in my speech and in my choice of words. Which does of course not mean that I'm not thoughtful/mindful of when and where I use 'critical' words.
Unless the German version of the English N-word has a specific historical context that makes it taboo, there's no reason to assume it's taboo to begin with. Several European languages use some variety of "Neg-" for the color black and by extension black people. I know the common German word for "black" is "Schwarz" so I suppose it very well could be the case that "Neger" is the English N-word equivalent...
The Moor ones, I can say, can definitely be problematic because Western Europe as a whole has had a pretty troublesome history with Maghreb Arabs of all varieties. No point in refueling any of that tension...
It has a very negative connotation because unlike french, italian and Spanish, our "black" doesn't have anything to do with the latin "niger, nigra, nigrum"=black. Using schwarz on its own isn't offensive to most people, like using "black" in the English language to describe someone's skin colour. However, "Neger" is offensive and has been classified as a word one should avoid since the 1980s in official dictionaries. The word was used in an article by the "Spiegel", a major German magazine comparable to a newspaper like the Washington Post. I agree with you that Mohr shouldn't be used, though this is socially more accepted than the N-word.
Ah that clears things up. Is the problem with "Mohr" even the word itself? Is it a non-standard or outdated ethnic term much like the American English term "Oriental" for East Asians? My guess would be that the thing people take issue with primarily is naming silly treats and knickknacks after an ethnic group for shallow reasons ostensibly rooted in mockery.
in the uk white people only use it to be racist whilst black people can use it to refer to each other... its like the word queer becoming owned by gay people... quite a good way of reducing its impact really.
@englisc i think by owning the word it very much lessons the impact... maybe not for a school kid but certainly for older people... listen to a giggs album and you might understand what i mean. also think about the word queer... since queer eye for the straight guy and nothing as queer as folk i can't think of a time i heard it being used as a derogitory term aimed at a gay person
I didn't grow up in a racist area, therefore it was uncommon to hear the word outside of learning in school. I don't see the need to bash people because they're different than me.
I'm not sure it should be *banned*, but it is a very very very very racist word, and should be socially discouraged in polite company, but not legally banned (Keep in mind I'm from the U. S.). I thought Western Europe was supposed to be more enlightened about this. Western European nations banned chattel slavery before the U. S. did, didn't they? I'd assume the Prussian States did too.
I don't use it unless I'm rapping along to a song and the word comes up then I don't give a fuck but otherwise I never use it I don't feel any need to ^^.
English is neutered with these N-word shenanigans. We don't say N-word or any equivalent, we use the actual word. There's nothing racist about it. We are called "whites" not the W-word, last I checked.
Would you enjoy being called a racist name? Why would you use the actual n-word if you can avoid offending people with a certain skin colour? I have very fair skin and have been called "Kartoffel" and "Süßkartoffel" before, meaning "potato" and "sweet potato". Sure, that pales in comparison, but I felt odd when I heard people calling me that. It's not nice. I feel like you should do research on the history of the n-word and am shocked at your ignorance on this topic. However, you are not alone, so maybe this is an issue in your country, I haven't heard good things about Estonia if I'm honest when it comes to racism (I'll assume you actually live there).
Oh there are people here that get mighty offended at the sound of the word. Flick open the dictionary and the word is there with meaning and everything. It refers to someone with black skin, that's it.
I know about the history. Should I call them slaves, instead? Is that perhaps less offensive than el negro? There's no more slavery in the First World, after all.
The only people that need racism are the ones who constantly keep bringing it up.
@Gnome0 I guess. Music was stupid back then, but at least everyone wasn't treating movies and music as if they were real life and ridiculous shit like "only a latino may write about latino characters". I honestly can't believe that people who go to (or teach at) university have gotten that braindead.
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