Is there a connection between goth fashion/music and goth ancient population?

[Anonymous]

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Yes.

1. While the Romans had quite a few enemies, their arguably closest competitors on the European mainland were the various tribes inhabiting what is now Germany. This included the Ostrogoths, the Visigoths, Crimean Goths, etc. Collectively, all of them were known as "the Goths". They invaded and sacked Rome multiple times over their history.

2. After the fall of the Holy Roman Empire, the predominant architectural style for buildings throughout most cultures in Europe was still heavily borrowed from the Romans (the so called "Romanesque" style). This continued for several hundred years, until a new style emerged in France, called the Opus Francigenum. It eventually spread to England, where it was called the "Norman" style of architecture. About a century later, the French further developed the architecture into a new style, through the addition of flying buttresses and pointed arches in the elaborate cathedrals of the time.

3. A few hundred years later, during the Renaissance, there was a revival of classical Greek and Roman literature. Proponents of the revival were also critical of art and architecture that deviated from the Romanesque style. They referred to the modified Norman style of the French cathedrals as "Gothic", as a pejorative, to point out the stark difference between what they considered to be an ugly, barbaric style of architecture to the more refined classical way of building things. That is, the Roman way versus their barbaric competitors, aka the Goths. Thus, the modified Norman style of the French cathedrals became "Gothic Architecture".

4. 200 years after that, a new style of literature emerged that made heavy use of horror, death, extreme emotion, and romance. This was refined over the next century or so by the likes of Shelley, Poe, Dickens, Byron, and others. The stories in this genre of fiction often take place in the Late Middle Ages and early in the Enlightenment, in and around buildings designed in the Gothic style. As such, in 1764, Horace Walpole subtitled his work "The Castle of Otranto" as "A Gothic Story". After that, the entire genre was known as "Gothic Horror".

5. Fast forward another 200 years. In 1964, music critic John Stickney points out in an editorial that the music of the popular band The Doors has a dark undercurrent of violence and death. He coins the term "Gothic Rock", which went on to be the moniker of an entire genre of post-punk music by artists such as Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Joy Division.

6. The Gothic Subculture emerges in England in the late 1970's / early 1980's. The subculture is very heavily influenced by Gothic Rock and the Gothic Horror literary genre. People in the subculture listen to Gothic Rock music, as well as pre-Goth punk and genres influenced by Goth Rock, such as Industrial, EBM, Emo, and others. They favor a dress and artistic style that borrows heavily from Gothic Horror stories, and generally have a cultural outlook heavily influenced by the Romanticism upon which the Gothic Horror genre is based.

[Asker]

ok, so the name gothic is connected cause the style of the music and of the clothing is referred to this ancient gothic horror style, but the goth warriors weren't dressed like modern goth peoples, i mean not for the dresses and clothings, cause obviously was another age, i mean about the symbols used, as skulls, vampires, bats, spiked bracelets etc etc.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Yeah, pretty much. Think of the Dark Ages in Europe (the period between approximately 400-1400 BCE). It was a hard, bleak, dark, and frankly horrific time to live in. People lived short, difficult lives full of danger and suffering.

A large part of what precipitated the Dark Ages was the fall of the Roman Empire. Specifically, the Holy Roman Empire that was what was left of the Roman republic. One of the primary drivers of the Dark Ages, arguably, was the loss of Roman technology and geopolitical control over the European mainland. Even to this day, we think of the Romans as having a high degree of technological advancement and a very advanced, artistic culture.

It could be said that the Romans were a light in an otherwise cold, dark, and brutal world. When their empire fell, that light was snuffed out.

So when we look back in history and see that the Goths tried very hard (and often succeeded) in destroying the Romans, we tend to associate them with negative things like darkness, death, brutality, barbarism, violence, misery, and so on. They were the opposite of the Romans; the darkness to the light.

When architecture popped up that wasn't in the Roman style, it was called "Gothic" because it wasn't Roman. It was savage compared to the Roman architecture's beauty and sophistication.

When literature has themes of darkness, horror, suffering, pain, etc. it stands against the light of the world. It is anti-Roman. Therefore we called it "Gothic".

When music has the same thematic elements, we also call it "Gothic". As we do the people who listen to it.

[Anpu23]

No the term comes from the association of gothic literature in the Victorian era. Think Dracula, or Frankenstein. Dark and spooky. The visigoths influenced gothic architecture, which became associated with dark and dreary in the Victorian mind. So the connection is at best, slight. The first ban refered to as Gothic was the Doors, but the term was adopted by some post punk bands, or more accurately their fan base. It was an extension of the peace punk movement or dark punk, with the new romantic movement influencing as well. As most of the new romantic and early gothic bands were interconnected swapping members and looks.

[Wise4myage]

No. Goth is a subculture that began in the United Kingdom during the early 1980s. It was developed by fans of gothic rock, an offshoot of the post-punk music genre.

[Asker]

but why that name

[RemoErdosain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVatiofd9lg

[Wise4myage]

Good question, I think people associate Goth with darkness.

[Asker]

hm maybe cause they where enemies of Romans?
So it could explain why the church usually don't have a good opinion about the goth peoples and viceversa

[Wise4myage]

I agree.

[jshm2]

No. Mainly as they tend to commit suicide before having a chance to reproduce.

So called "Goth fashion" is really just the same old look, Hot Topic just sexes it up a little.

[NamerOfStars]

Not to my knowledge. And given the way Gothic cathedrals look, I don't think the two have much in common besides the name.

[lauragrl]

i think there's supposed to be but i don't think many goth people could tell you what it is