American Exceptionalism is the idea that the United States of America is unique among the nations of the world in that it was founded on the principles of individual liberty, private property rights, and equal justice for all. Because it is unique, the United States has a special role in the world and in human history.
America is a country uniquely founded upon a successful idea, rather than ethnicity, religion, borders, tribal identity, or other such traits.
No, America is not exceptional. It is just another empire trying to expand and/or consolidate its interests. Any outside observer can see that the principles upon which it was founded have been eroding since it seriously embraced it's imperial role (1945). Only private property is relatively the same, and that principle has existed elsewhere before the birth of the U. S. Freedom and Justice however, are clearly dispensed selectively. I would also point out that the U. S. S. R was also founded upon commendable principles. Yet that did not make them exceptional either.
However, a lot of people believe in U. S. exceptionalism. In my opinion, that is extremely dangerous. It creates the belief that the U. S. can do whatever it wants, however it wants, with impunity. This is very wrong and deluded thinking. It promotes conflict and hatred.
Because of this exceptionalism delusion: - The U. S. thinks it has the right to interfere in other countries' affairs (influence elections, sponsor coups, even assassinate elected leaders) but throws a massive tantrum if any other country tries it or (gasp) tries it on them, - The U. S. believes it has the right to violate international law to invade, occupy and devastate independent countries at will because it doesn't like who is in charge there (or for some other ultimately selfish reason), - The U. S. believes it can dictate the foreign policies of other countries, and define words like terrorism, coup, secession, in flexible terms as suitable to its narratives, - The U. S. believes it has the sole right to deploy it's military and weapons in other countries (even when illegal), but deems anyone else who does the same to be aggressors.
Exceptionalism has led the U. S. to commit so many diplomatic double standards, war crimes, and breaches of international law. In my opinion, this absurd, and delusional notion of U. S. exceptionalism makes the U. S. by far the greatest threat to world peace in the 21st century. No one should ever be given the impression that they are an exception to the rules governing others. No matter how powerful they are, or noble their principles.
Those who are truly exceptional do not want, nor seek exceptionalism.
lol Nope, that's just nationalism, and so many other nations throughout history possess similar (if not 'nearly-identical') ideologies.
Back in the Philippines, I was taught we Filipinos are special: In all continental Asia, we are the only majority-(practicing) Christian nation. The PH is God's special, much-favored country. And yet, have you studied Philippine History? I'll just say it wasn't my favorite subject.
The Russians also think the same way: Russian History, culture, and civilization began when Eastern Orthodox Christianity spread to their area. Then, Constantinople (the Vatican of Eastern Orthodoxy) fell to the Muslim Empire, and the clergy's power-structures quickly transferred to relatively-nearby Moscow. And while the Patriarch of Constantinople (now 'Islamabad' dominated by majority-Muslim Turks) still exists and claims historical power, the Patriarch of Moscow has the most believers of all under his wing in all the Orthodox world. Hence, Russia is the center of Orthodox Christianity. Russia is God's country, Russia's culture is divinely-inspired, and Russia is the apple of God's eye.
Russia isn't the only claimant of Divine divinely-given culture & civilization. Before the Communist take-over, the Chinese traditionally considered their culture divine. The Emperor reigned over all the Earth by 天命 ("tian-ming"; commonly「Mandate of Heaven」or, literally 「Heaven's Mandate」), but administered only China. Imperial foreign-policy had diplomatic-relations begin with the foreign-government to be recognized and befriended acknowledge the Emperor's global reign and the Emperor would acknowledge the said government's legitimate rule in behalf of him. NO nation is better than China. They're the longest still-surviving culture in all World History. With a ongoing history of 5k-years, they are the lone adult in this world of infants infants & babies, plus a few preteens, and fewer teenagers. What do these children even hope to teach and offer this accomplished adult? What threat could they possibly pose to the culture that wrote the very book on the war? lol Opium War, Unequal Treaties, the Maoist Revolution, etc.
And 中國 ("zhong-guo"; 「Central/Middle Nation/Kingdom/Land」) wasn't the only culture that saw itself as the center of the Earth: Remember the Mediterranean Sea? That's from Latin: medius ("MEH-dyus";「middle」) & terra ("TEH-rah"; "Earth/land"). They saw it as the center of the Earth. And what's at the center of the Mediterranean Sea? Italy & its Rome, of course! What a coincidence! I wonder if the Latin-speaking Romans knew that.
And China wasn't the only ruler supposedly reigned-over by divine favor. The Opium War was essentially by the Emperor's Mandate of Heaven vs. the Divine Right of Kings claimed by the U. K.'s King/Queen (who is also the Anglican Church's de-facto Pope, the Supreme Governor of the Church of England). Japan's Emperor also reigns by claim of divinity, as literal decendants of the Sun-goddess 天照 ("Amaterasu"). Saudi Arabia's House of آل سُعُود ("āl-Suʿūd" or "al-Saʿūd"; "al-sah-OOD"; lit.「the Saʿūd」) rules embodiment of Sunni Islam, and supposedly owns Allah's country, as does the rival Tehran which imposes Shi'a Islam over all Iran.
And speaking of divine favor by administration of religion, how about Israel (the place actually mentioned in the Torah, Gospels, and Apostolic writings BY NAME, as opposed the U. S. founded millennia after in 1776)? Or how about the long-gone Ethiopian Empire, headed by the devoutly-Christian Emperor Haile Selassie I (reign: 2 April 1930 - 12 September 1974)?
And and how about failed-states? Islamic State 1st comes to mind, but there's also 太平天國 ("Tai-ping Tian-guo"; 「Taiping Heavenly Kingdom」,「Taiping Kingdom of Heaven」, or 「Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace」), which existed from 1851-1864. It was basically Islamic State, except in China and run by Christian-heretics whose founder claimed to the Messiah's literal little-brother, as declared by the Messiah Himself in a dream. And how about Tibet, whose government-in-exile is run by the de-facto Pope of Buddhism, the Dalai Lama?
So, does God have MANY countries throughout time (even in parallel)? Does He have a schedule of nations to favor and disown? Or does the Catholic God favoring Rome at war with the Orthodox God of Constantinople and/or Moscow & the Anglican God's London, who are all 3 at war with the Sunni Allah over Riyadh who also battles with the Shi'a Allah of Tehran? Where does the Japanese Emperor & the the Dalai Lama fit in this? Is the Chinese Emperor's claim still valid, but just passed-on to the P. R. C.-government in Beijing and/or the Republic of China-government in Taiwan?
lol Like Germany's "Deutschland über alles" (「Germany over all」) back in World War Ⅱ. The theory is overt-simplistic and prone to abuse. History is littered with many now-disproven parallel claims. Without a doubt, this American Exceptionalism is 1 of them.
Correction 001: "And China wasn't the only ruler supposedly reigned-over by divine favor. The Opium Wars were essentially the Emperor's Mandate of Heaven vs. the Divine Right of Kings claimed by the U. K.'s King/Queen…"
Correction 002: "I wonder if the Latin-speaking Romans knew that. And remember Vatican City, the smallest nation-state today, ruled by the Pope, and with Latin is the designated official-language? Like the Chinese Emperor, his God-given jurisdiction is over all the Earth, but he only administers political-power over his area, the Vatican in his case."
Correction 003: "Saudi Arabia's House of آل سُعُود ("āl-Suʿūd" or "al-Saʿūd"; "al-sah-OOD"; lit.「the Saʿūd」) rules the embodiment of Sunni Islam, and supposedly owns Allah's country, as does the rival-claimant Tehran which imposes Shi'a Islam over all Iran."
Correction 004: "Another nation mentioned in the Bible is Ethiopia, but under the ancient name כוש ("Kush/Cush"; "koosh"). So, how about the long-gone Ethiopian Empire, headed by the devoutly-Christian Emperor Haile Selassie I (reign: 2 April 1930 - 12 September 1974)?"
Correction 005: "Or is the Catholic God favoring Rome at war with the Orthodox God of Constantinople and/or Moscow & the Anglican God's Supreme Governor in London, who are all 3 at war with the Sunni Allah over Riyadh who also battles with the Shi'a Allah of Tehran?"
I think America is exceptional in sense that being an American is a spirit. We have the majority of famous leaders. Leaders that lead us to always be a better America. We are the land of the free because of the brave.
Who are the brave? Lincoln MLK Jr Washington Harriet Tubman Rosa Parks Inez Milholland Boissevain Helen Keller JFK Roosevelt All the people that immigrated here to make something of themselves.
I grew up poor from an immigrant family, and my greatest privilege was growing up in NYC. With all the immigrants from all over the world who had different backgrounds and cultures. We all had something in common... the American Spirit.
We believe in liberty and freedom for all. We fought for it every century/decade. Whether it was civil rights, child rights (child. labor laws and such), women's rights, pr gay rights.
I think we have entered an age of basic human rights now.
Capitalism allows the strong to be strong. Government has failed us though. That is another topic though.
Mish mash words soup. JFK was incompetent. Roosevelt was the primary cause of the Great depression. Helen Keller was the Greta Thunberg of her time. Rosa Parks wasn't happy with citizenship in the wealthiest country in the world in-exchange for doing the least of any American immigrant so she violated the law and took advantage of peoples kindness for the elderly. MLK was a racist black who blatantly demanded money in his most famous speech the rest of which he plagiarizer.
@Obscurite You are ridiculous. JFK was a war hero. He saved his entire platoon. Could you do that? Probably not. During Roosevelt's time World War 1 was going on. If we had lost the war we would all be speaking German, and the Jews would not exist. If you were Helen Keller you would be wallowing in self pity. Rosa Parks took a stand for a an Equal America! Right MLK was racist. I am so tired of your brainwashed views.
You need to learn what hate is because you are full of it.
You'll have to, prove, that I'm ridiculous, so far its not looking good for you.
JFK the President utterly erased every deed JFK the soldier may have accomplished and drowned them in a sea of debt, retreat and blood. The worst of which was his culpability in the MLK mugging of America. If you ever actually listened to the first 10 min of MLK's speech then you would know it was a thinly veiled poorly written demand for money and threat against the countries life, should it not immediately pay up. There was no basis for American blacks, the most privileged class of people in the history of civilization being oppressed victims. By accepting, narrating that there was JFK would badly worsen the undeserved weakness' of the Republic which would ultimately prove fatal.
If I had an extremely difficult and disadvantaged childhood, I would be exactly the man that I am today.
JFK with the help of his fellows became the longest serving President in American history by extending the Great Depression which they created, which in no small part set the stage for the bloodiest war in human history. JFK is right there with Hitler and Stalin. The Germans couldn't have successfully invaded the United States if they had consolidated all of Europe you are ignorant of basic facts such as steel production, population and transportation.
It is you who is brainwashed, hateful and racist, the proof is that you can merely squawk, offended like a hen, you can't refute a damn thing.
This is why women shouldn't have been given the vote. Irrational and uneducated by choice.
JFK Is culpable in the death of the Last Bastion of Freedom and so he culpable for the cycle of war that will inevitably follow. JFK will be remembered in the end as one in a long line of Democratic American Neville Chamberlain's.
@Exterminatore Yes... the legendary war story of how JFK towed his men to shore then swam around tending to them before moving to yet another island and getting rescued.
I always picture it giving him the full benefit of the doubt that he is doing everything they give him credit for. But I have to ask are we really calling a war hero someone who's greatest accomplishment was hanging back safe in reserve then falling asleep, then getting their boat literally run the fuck over and more than half their men killed? Its good to save what is left but with that track record I wouldn't be giving him another command.
I was unaware he fell asleep. You seem to be familiar with the story. Having served in the Marine Corps myself I’d say falling asleep when one ought to have been vigilant would be a dereliction of duty. If that is in fact the case, maybe we shouldn’t be calling him a war hero and if it is in fact the case I think you make a great point.
@Obscurite LOL, "It's not looking too good for you" You said that like you were going to provide facts. You're a weak debater, and an even weaker man.
"It is you who is brainwashed, hateful and racist, the proof is that you can merely squawk, offended like a hen, you can't refute a damn thing." --- You a part of that crazy Left movement that believes in hate crimes if someone doesn't agree with you.
You don't effing know me. You don't even know what being racist actually is.
JFK was president for two and half years, and in those years you are claiming all this debt and "retreat of blood" without citing ONE RELIABLE SOURCE!
I've listened to MLK's speech more than once, and it seems you want to manipulate his intentions.
@Exterminatore Well its not the way the story usually gets told. The standard version is "He saw a shadow coming, assumed it was another PT boat and, tried to turn to fight it when he realized it was an enemy only to get run over by a Japanese Destroyer...
I just can't swallow that... Would anyone actually mistake a Destroyer for a PT boat? Would you not be ready to move regardless of if it was an ally coming? Allies can ram you in the dark as well. For that matter how were they communicating why wouldn't he check/signal?
It then goes on to say he gets thrown by the wreck on his bad back and that he uses his championship swimming skills to save everyone. I mean... maybe. More power to him if he did I've heard of more incredible things, this is jus stretching credibility more still.
No matter what happened they just fell asleep/didn't set a watch or sat there like idiots. I'm not sure which is worse. These things happen but when it costs a vessel, 6 men and a rescue effort then the leads you can do is hold men accountable for their mistakes and limitations.
He would get another command however and reportedly at least rescue some paratroops that were being over run. That's about it. Honestly, for the war it seems quite light duty, too be expected of a Kennedy they didn't want in danger I suppose. It is really hard not to contrast this with William McKinley working his way up from recruit, or Washington and so on.
@CalmYourTits@Exterminatore She was probably talking about the second incident, though she didn't know it since she didn't correct you. I have to wonder after how spin doctored the first was if it can be trusted. Were they really under such heavy fire? Was a Kennedy sent over to pick up some troops, because that would be worth a medal back home and anyone could have been sent? He wouldn't see combat again being sent back to the Hot Springs Navel hospital until he was discharged for his back, or so the story goes. Perhaps after they lost his older brother who was running more dangerous missions piloting it was no longer an option in their mind to have him on the line of duty.
I notice she didn't try refuting my MLK stuff. That was a disappointment... who would have thought he was such a plagiarizer.
Baseless slander, projection and bluffing. You know, men can sense when someone is weak right? Why do you think I was so casual with you? You aren't fooling anyone.
Second quote doesn't make any sense as calling MLK racist is hardly a position any Left wing movement could accept. No matter how obviously true.
I know the words and behaviors which you have shown. You are half educated, proud yet mentally fragile, pretend to be the voice of reason but are quick to become flustered.
"You don't even know what being racist actually is."
Racism is, for better or worse, reacting to someone inaccurately based on their race. For instance that you automatically assume MLK was a good American, in no small part because he was black and in America that puts him above suspicion. That is racist.
"JFK was president for two and half years, and in those years you are claiming all this debt and "retreat of blood" without citing ONE RELIABLE SOURCE!"
JFK's actions are a matter of common knowledge and the fullness of time shows them for the crimes against his country which they were. I referred to the Kennedy's and their legacy. It is a well accepted fact that JFK was in truth merely an extension of his father and brother.
If you wish to refute me refute that the country as a representative Republic is Dead. You will fail.
Then refute that the Burn Loot Murder protests for the last 6 months played a critical part in its fall. Then dispute that BLM was anything but a natural echo of the "Civil Rights" movement of the 1950's and 1960's
MLK was not a subtle man, no more in his plagiarized speeches than in his beating of women.
"In a sense we've come to our nation's Capital to cash a check"
"This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality." As they were burning and looting TV's
"There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges."
Similar speech was just convicted seditious sufficient to impeach a President no longer even in office. You can argue the Black Americans cause if you like, you'll fail there as well. I find nothing impressive about MLK nothing that didn't turn out to be a shiny lie.
"I've listened to MLK's speech more than once, and it seems you want to manipulate his intentions."
His intentions were blatantly clear. Money and power or he would burn the country down. He got it 55 trillion were transferred to blacks and they didn't burn the country down again for another 50 years. Too bad the price was too high to pay this time. That's what happens when you pay muggers though.
Also a platoon is on average a 50 man troop comprised of at least two squads and up to 100 men.
@Exterminatore You didn't say that in your first comment. So don't say, "you just told me" Also, to the everyday person, we go by the dictionary and it just says a group. Anyway, He saved 11 people... how many have you saved?
@Obscurite You're not even American! No wonder!!! You're a very jealous person. You're probably not even Dutch. Probably someone from another country taking advantage of their system.
And all those sentences that you cherry picked from his speech is a manipulation of the truth! You are a GASLIGHTER! YOU ARE A VERY DANGEROUS PERSON!
MLK said, "But we refuse to believe that the BANK OF JUSTICE is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we've come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice."
I won't even continue with you. You are of poor character. Stay in your country. Let them be embarrassed of you!
Saving 11 people is a note worthy accomplishment and is no small task. That’s not to take anything away from what he did. I’m just saying it’s not a platoon.
I don’t believe in American exceptionalism and I think the narrative that you described tells a very sugar-coated narrative about how the USA was founded. If anything the history is extremely shameful, not exceptional at all.
Except no, I don’t see anything exceptional about a society built on slavery of people purely for the sake of their skin colour, and before that invading and then massacring innocent indigenous people who still aren’t being treated as equals to this day then people have the *nerve* to talk about illegal immigrants when the country was founded on illegal immigration.
Then don’t even get started on all the wars the USA has been involved Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan- when those countries haven’t even attacked the USA for the USA to declare war upon them.
I’m not the one that needs to be educated you are, as I said America is by no means exceptional, it’s shameful on so many levels.
@SpiderManFan2002 America wasn't founded on slavery. Slavery was a negative part of its history, this country also wasn't founded on illegal immigration. I'm not sure what you learned in history in your country but it wasn't factual.
America was built off of the back of black slavery, whether you like it or it was much more than a negative part of your history- slavery played a huge factor in how you built your society.
And yes, America was founded off of illegal immigration. The native *indigenous* Americans didn’t invite the Europeans, they came to the Natives homeland, slaughtered Natives, and took over. That’s illegal immigration whether you like it or not.
The United States of America wasn't founded then, it was founded much later, so like it or not you don't know American history. Society wasn't built on slavery, it was built on removing slavery, so that all can have equal opportunities.
The USA was founded in 1776. However you cannot ignore the history before then, if America was really “equal opportunities” the first priority of the founding fathers such as George Washington would have been to pay reparations to the indigenous people, instead their choice was to further oppress the Natives to the land to this very day.
To say America has “equal opportunities” and was built on “removing slavery” is actually laughable. The White House was built by slaves, the Capitol in D. C. was built by slaves, Harvard Law School, Georgetown University, University of North Carolina and so much more was built by slaves.
Many of your founding fathers were racists who owned black slaves, so it is a complete fantasy, a complete lie to say that the USA was built on removing slavery.
Most every country in that era had slavery, it wasn't just America, Africa even had white slaves from Great Britain, so slaves wasn't even just one race. Slavery has been abolished for many, many decades. Because of the principles that America was founded on is part of the reason for the abolition. The Native Americans still have special rights that no one else has in this country, so I'm not sure how you feel that they are still being mistreated.
The difference is, other countries know their shameful history, and don’t go around claiming to be exceptional.
And the USA arguably profited immensely off of slavery, and even after slavery people of colour had to create a Civil Rights Movement in order to fight for their rights, MLK, Malcolm X, Rosa Parks.
The OP tells a very flowery version of your history, and was partially basing American Exceptionalism off of that.
The Native Americans have had “special rights?” Don’t make me laugh, you’re clearly ignoring the years of oppression they faced *after* the Europeans invaded, not to mention- remember the peaceful pipeline protests pretty recently to which they were met with brutality? Yet European Americans storm the Capitol and people have the nerve to refer to them as “patriots” the privilege is astounding.
By no means is it a tainted narrative it’s just not a sugarcoated Disney version you’d prefer to hear.
In my opinion pretty much every country will have had a dark history at some point or they’re not doing so great now- there’s no such thing as “exceptionalism” for any country or it’s people, was what happened at the Capitol exceptional? Was what happened to George Floyd and the hundreds of black people murdered by police brutality exceptional? Was the American Invasion of Iraq and Vietnam, exceptional? Was the fact Rosa Parks an old woman was at one point expected to give up her seat on a bus for the sake of her skin colour exceptional? I could go on and on.
There is no such thing as American Exceptionalism, get over yourselves especially with the situation America is in with COVID right now, far from exceptional. I mean I find it appalling that there are starving children in the USA, yet people are finding money to donate to Trump because he lost an election? As I said I could go on.
Don’t get me wrong there are good things about America too, but it is far from this rosy “exceptional” picture you paint of it.
Do your research, Native Americans pay no federal taxes from their casinos, they are exempt from taxes on the sale of tobacco, no one else in America have these priviledges. So yes they have special rights that no one else has. You obviously are not American.
It’s actually laughable you think the native Americans are privileged. You’re clearly the one who needs to do research, you’re clearly living in a bubble.
Again, hundreds of black people murdered by police, is factually untrue. More unarmed white people are killed by police than blacks. The shame is that America sends billions of dollars to other countries in aid and also spends billions defending other nations and foreign wars when many veterans are left homeless, not many children are "starving " again I'm not sure where you get your information from. Why won't you answer me that. I do now see that your opinion is all fed to you by President Trump haters. I believe politicians get overpaid, yet you did not mention that President Trump did not take a dollar in salary, he donated it to a different cause each quarter.
If America is not exceptional and the greatest country in the world, why would millions of people from many other countries immigrate to America, with a long waiting list. If America was racist or mistreated minorities people of color would not immigrate here.
Because America is a more developed country and there’s better opportunity for them there? That doesn’t mean your exceptional lol, people often immigrate to lots of other countries too lol
I can't figure out such nonsense. I'm too smart to understand nonsensical statements, you seem to be an expert on nonsensical statements and illogical thoughts. I will help you out, I am 52 years old, it states that clearly on my profile page. One again you have proven yourself clueless or confused.
Chill, I simply mistook you for the other dude, he’s 23😂
And that’s even worse, you’re 52 old enough to be my father yet you’re so ignorant to American history and oppression it’s astounding- how you want to brush slavery off as a “negative part” of your history, where in reality if it wasn’t for slavery your President’s residency wouldn’t exist nor would so many significant buildings in America.
All it takes is a quick Google search to see what oppression the Natives to America have suffered before and after the USA was founded and to this very day.
But please, keep talking you’re adding to the list of reasons why American Exceptionalism doesn’t exist😂😂😂😂
I'm not ignorant to American history or oppression. I'm well versed in it, I have taken time to study and understand it. I don't rely on Google, Google has proven itself unreliable and bias. It manipulates searches to promote the information that it wants you to know not just pure unbiased information. I am not naive or lazy like so many others.
Eh, no. If you look at your source, often of which are legitimate history sources written by historians etc, you’ll know what you’re reading and whether it is biased or not.
Not to mention, “Google it” doesn’t always literally mean the Google search engine, it’s also a phrase used to look something up on the internet- DuckDuckGo is independent and they give you unbiased search results, I use that lol.
Yes, Google search is biased to a certain extent- but there are ways to beat the algorithm lol it’s not impossible😂
Then I guess don't educate yourself about the term Karen. Also explain what you think that I think I am entitled to. I am entitled to nothing, I choose to work hard to get what I want, I have the same opportunity as any other American, even though I am an immigrant who came here legally.
A few historical facts 1. When the United States was founded, Slavery was actually outlawed in many of its territories (Maine for example), it was NEVER accepted in the country as a whole... This is what led to the issues of the mid 1800s (be it the Missouri Compromise, Bleeding Kansas.. etc). However, the United States like many Western Nations outlawed Slavery very early on (While many African nations, and Asian nations were practicing slavery well into the 20th century). 2. In terms of Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq... The United States was aiding the South Vietnamese government and never actually "invaded" Vietnam. The USA was not even allowed to launch offensive operations into North Vietnam (which made the war difficult... of course public opinion soured.. eventually forcing a withdrawal... the North Vietnamese invaded the South in 1975.. 2 years after the USA withdrawal.. which led to the collapse of Saigon.. the interment of many Southerners... the massacre of thousands.. along with the famous Boat People... neighboring Cambodia and Laos also fell around the same time... Cambodia in particular suffered under Pol Pot. . who committed genocide against his own people).. In terms of Afghanistan.. the United States supported the Northern Alliance overthrown of the Taliban regime (which was never viewed as the official government of Afghanistan by the UN... instead the United Front/Northern Alliance was)... it was largely Afghans who defeated the Taliban regime.. and its largely Afghans today that continue to fight the Taliban resurgence... IN terms of Iraq... THAT is indeed a controversial war and not supported by much of the international community... HOWEVEr.. today the USA has a good working relationship with Iraq (USA troops still work with Iraqi forces to hunt down ISIS remnants).
3. In terms of Natives specifically, INDEED this is a dark portion of history which the United States inherited (and did not particularly handle well). I don't think many people deny the atrocities committed.. Most estimate put around 50,000+ Natives being killed through the various conflicts that involved the USA vs Native groups (along with 19,000+ Whites... most of them being settlers) Many of the conflicts began for a whole complex list of reasons SOME were clearly just Greed of the American Government Others started due to Native assaults on Settlers <--- OFten times on lands purchased by the United States Government The USA also found itself allied with various Native forces against others... or against other nation states...
The point is, given the period of time the USA was not particularly "Brutal" nor has it ever been particularly "Brutal" or "Evil" as many tend to throw around It was quite progressive and open in comparison to much of the world and still is to this day
Has it done its fair share of bad things? Yes.. of course But are those things particularly unique? Not really.
We tend to be overzealous in our critique of Europeans.. and their history and very rarely do we treat other civilizations the same way
As a Historian myself (I received a BA in History back in 2014) Europeans TEND to be the most self critical of all groups other nations and people tend to ignore their atrocities (China for example, won't even accept the Tiananmen Square Massacre happened... and they scrub it from all their social media companies... to them its fake).
AND WESTERNERS will generally be more critical of their actions in conflicts.. than others.. regardless of the enemies brutality
Vietnam for example VERY WELL KNOWN for American atrocities though very few actual massacres were committed by American forces and the communist NVA were at fault for a majority of the wars atrocities (and would continue to commit them after the USA left in 1973) Do we speak about this? not really.
@DarkSideCorrino though I question how you could have a BA in History... and be 20? especially from so long ago
YOU have all the right points though... sooo ill ignore the obvious Bull haha.. unless you are lying about your age I guess? I received my BA in Social Science (emphasis in History)
Well though DarkSideCorrino is silly I hope you learned something SpiderManFan2002 He isn't wrong with any of his points though he takes some creative liberties with his background hahaha
1. It may have never been accepted in the country as a whole, but it wasn’t abolished in your constitution until 1865. And you can’t deny until then, the USA gained immensely from slavery, with the examples I gave of what important buildings slaves built and that’s just one example. And I don’t know why you’re bringing up Africa and Asia given I’m not arguing that America isn’t exceptional and Africa and Asia are, I’m simply arguing America isn’t exceptional full stop.
2. If the goal of the Vietnam war was to “aid” South Vietnam can you explain the justification for the war crimes committed against innocent Vietnamese civilians who were men, women and children? A prime example being, the My Lai massacre in 1968, not only did a company of American soldiers kill innocent civilians but they also raped and mutilated young girls! And then not to mention, it was covered up! Is this exceptional? And again, for Afghanistan if the aim is to overthrow the Taliban can you explain to me and justify the war crimes committed in Afghanistan against civilians such as the Panjwai massacre where the murder of sixteen civilians took place nine of who were children? And even recently the former US President Donald Trump pardoned 4 war criminals who quite literally blew the brains out of Ali Kinani who was just 9-years-old! How threatening is a 9-year-old child to an American solider? Is this exceptional? The Iraq was unjust, it doesn’t matter if you have a good working relationship with Iraq today that won’t bring back the 1 million innocent lives lost from an unjust war. Is this exceptional? 3. To say it was a “negative” part of American history is an absolute understatement. It is a disgraceful part of American history. Remember, the Native Americans didn’t invite the Europeans over- they invaded, slaughtered the natives and even had the nerve to weaponise diseases such as smallpox as an attempt to kill the indigenous people.
And I disagree with your opinion about the USA not being brutal. The war crimes in Vietnam were brutal, the war crimes in Afghanistan were brutal, one million innocent people dead in Iraq due to an unjust war is brutal. The history with the Natives to America, is indeed brutal. And those acts I listed are indeed evil acts in my opinion.
That said, I do believe it is nonsensical to label the whole American nation as evil, that was not even the point I was making, I don’t believe the whole of America is bad or evil, there are good parts about America too like anywhere, it was you who brought the “evil” claim into this. I’m simply arguing that the USA is not exceptional that doesn’t mean the USA is automatically evil, it just means the USA is by no means, exceptional.
And you want to discuss Vietnamese atrocities on the USA, but tell me- was it the Vietnamese soldiers come to the USA, murder and rape civilians who were men, women and children?
Was it African nations and Asian nations who went around colonizing European countries?
To me you don’t sound very self-critical at all if I’m honest. Given you’ve simply overlooked war crimes. And the conversation we’re having isn’t about “other nations” though, it’s about America and American Exceptionalism. If the question was about Chinese Exceptionalism, then we’d be discussing China’s history, however, it is not so enough with this whataboutism.
And anyone should be critical of their actions in conflicts especially if there were war crimes that have taken place.
Now the original question was about whether you believe in American Exceptionalism or not. Personally, I do not believe in American Exceptionalism because of the shameful history concerning the Native Americans, slavery, and the war crimes committed by the USA. Why is it such a problem that I don’t believe in American Exceptionalism? I thought America founded the principles of “individual liberty” yet when I express mine, calling the history and war crimes that have been committed by the USA out for what they are, shameful and express that I don’t believe in American exceptionalism- why are people so butthurt? Whatever happened to individual liberty?
1. I think his point was very clear in terms of slavery. The United States (like most Western nations) abolished slavery before the rest of the world. To me that seems quite exceptional? Slavery has been commonly practiced throughout much of the world, and for a region of the world to completely outlaw it is quite exceptional?
2. In terms of Vietnam, believe his point was specifically a significant majority of war crimes committed in Vietnam (both before the USA entrance, during the USA entrance, and after the USA exit) were committed by the Communist regime of the North. He also spoke about the crimes committed in Laos and Cambodia, which are largely ignored by the international public. Why would it be acceptable to critique the United States so heavily in terms of Vietnam, and not the other nations playing a far more negative role? For example, the term "Democide" is coined by Rudolph Rummel. The Communist Regime of Vietnam ranked among the worst of the 20th century. Would it not be fair to criticize them? And would it not give credit to the American involvement, that it was ultimately justified? EVEN if public opinion disagreed and led to a forced withdrawal (a withdrawal that brought more pain than the actual war?)
In the Afghanistan example UNAMA actually reported between 2009 to 2011 (the peak of United States involvement) over 75% to 80% of the Civilian casualties were caused by the Taliban The same happens today... the war has been far more bloody since the United States withdrew most of its force and handed security over to the Afghan Government back in 2014 (its now known as "Resolute Support") The War has seen consistently over 10,000 civilian casualties each year... far higher than any period of significant USA involvement. ONCE AGAIN, according to UNAMA most of those Civilian casualties are caused by the Taliban In the case of the Iraq conflict is indeed controversial as he said. the United States inflicted mass civilian losses during the invasion (over 4,000 minimal) though the 1,000,000 claim from you is largely exaggerated most sources claim around 150,000 to 200,000 casualties but of course the number can never be known ONCE AGAIN, the largest share of those losses are due to insurgencies though though yes, the USA inflicted a very large chunk
I think ultimately the question is how do you define "Exceptional" is any NATION or people exceptional?
3. In terms of "Europeans Weaponizing Diseases" I would say that is a great exaggeration. During that period of time (the late 15th century, and early 16th century) Europeans (and much of the world) had little concept of microscopic organisms. To say they "weaponized it" would assume they had a decent enough grasp of disease to know what they were doing.
But once again How is this particularly unique to Europe?
None the less, you profited off of the back of slavery for years and years and still are to this very day. Is your own President not benefiting from slavery given where he lives was built by slaves, for example?
And none the less, the USA may have abolished slavery, but it didn’t abolish racial injustice clearly. That’s not very exceptional to me.
Slavery was also outlawed in other parts of the world too. I don’t see those countries insisting they are exceptional. Because it’s not exceptional to outlaw slavery its decency.
2. I’m heavily criticizing the USA because I don’t see any other nations who played a part in the war claiming to be exceptional. I don’t see the Vietnamese Communist Regime claiming to be exceptional, if they were and this question was about that, I’d be criticizing that right now.
But you can’t claim exceptionalism when your country has still committed disgusting war crimes, yes, other nations have too- but I don’t see people claiming that they are exceptional.
To get to your other replies 1. I have already explained that war crimes committed by enemies in the wars you have listed were far more aggressive. YES the USA had its fair share... but it was often dwarfed by the Communist Vietnamese.. Taliban... Insurgents in Iraq.. ETC. 2. YES, indeed African, and Asian did invade Europe and "Colonize" it... Spain and Portugal was conquered by Muslim powers (including African Muslim Empires) for over 8 centuries. All of Southern and much of Central Europe (up to Vienna) was conquered by the Ottoman Empire... the Mongols and Huns made aggressive moves on Europe as well.. The list is quite Endless actually 3. I have no idea where im "overlooking" war crimes. I am admitting to them, however, I am also stating the fact that in nearly all the examples you listed the enemy inflicted far more 4. Slavery was commonly practiced throughout the world when the United States was founded. Very few nations had actually abolished it. THOSE that did, were for the most part European. .. and as I stated much of the world (Africa and Asia especially) would not abolish it for nearly 2 more centuries.
In terms of the "Vietnamese claiming exceptionalism" Indeed they do... They for the most part deny any of their war crimes during the war and view the Southerners (whom they persecuted and exterminated) as outsiders. They outright deny a Civil War even happened because it goes against their standard
The United States however very aggressively teaches the negative aspects of its history Slavery... Civil War... Jim Crowe... Civil Rights movement.. Native treatment.. etc
Exceptionalism is not the belief is did nothing wrong but the reality the United States was FOR ITS TIME... very progressive and forward thinking Which it was in most regards
3. I never stated it was unique to European moreover, I am commenting on American history- because you are so insistent on claiming America is exceptional yet I don’t see how, with America’s history and war crimes how anybody could claim it is exceptional. Yes, America has done good things too, but that doesn’t mean you sweep the bad under the carpet especially since lives were destroyed and lost as a result of that bad and generations were traumatized. If any country in the world has committed war crimes and massacred people, they are by no means an exceptional nation.
You can’t claim exceptionalism when things as such are a part of your history. Asia and Africa aren’t claiming exceptionalism, nor is that what this question is about. The OP asked the same question to non-Americans whether we believe our countries are exceptional or not- a lot answered “no”.
I don’t see Vietnamese claiming exceptionalism on this question though.
^ I should further highlight the concept of Exceptionalism isn't actually an American one.
AND MANY nations view themselves as "Exceptional" including India.. Pakistan...
the Imperial Japanese thought of themselves as Exceptional
You seem to assume the concept applies to "Perfection" or "Always Good" haha
its not how its been used it speaks specifically to uniqueness. which the United States (especially for its government style) was very unique and influential thus Exceptional.
Indeed the Foundation of the United States was Exceptional for its Government style which influenced much of the current world. MANY nations are modeled after that style
However once again you are not even using the term Exceptionalism correctly.
Well if this question was about Indian exceptionalism or Pakistani exceptionalism we’d be discussing that, however, this question is about American Exceptionalism.
And I simply don’t believe you can use a word such as “exceptional” to describe America, given its history and war crimes. Yes, other nations have shameful histories too, other nations have committed war crimes too, but just because other nations have as well that doesn’t make the war crimes of America and the history of America any less worse.
Now it’s my use of the term exceptionalism?😂😂If you want to say America has been influential, then say it’s been influential don’t say it’s been exceptional- because that is associated or can be associated with something “perfect “ whether you like it or not, and can come off as very arrogant.
I don’t care how you’re defining it, I can agree America has indeed been influential to some degree, however, I would never in a million years use the word “exceptional” to describe the USA.
I sent you a message its far easier talking to that
and Yes its largely because Exceptionalism doesn't mean "Good" or "Perfect"
that is not how the term is actually used hahaha
in the political/history/social etc standard Exceptional isn't actually used to describe things that are "Perfect" or "Good"
it has more to do with influence or uniqueness
take a google search of the term "Exceptionalism is the perception or belief that a species, country, society, institution, movement, individual, or time period is "exceptional" (i. e., unusual or extraordinary)." or Merriam Webster "Definition of exceptionalism : the condition of being different from the norm also : a theory expounding the exceptionalism especially of a nation or region"
There is nothing that speaks about being "Perfect" or "Good"
Okay firstly, I’m not an idealist. Secondly, that is true most if not every nation will have a dark or shameful history, and/or maybe they could be doing better than they already are. Hence, I don’t think it’s appropriate to label any nation as “exceptional”.
if you don't accept that genocide, slavery, and atrocity are inevitable results of the violence known as human nature... you're an idealist. all nations are enemies waiting to happen and NO we can't do better. this is it, this is being human. rape and genocide and starvation and it will not end or get better until only one group or nation is left
you're an idealist purely for thinking we can do better lol :first half of your statement "i'm not an idealist" : second half "says super idealistic thing"
Your first points about the following things being inevitable, is very debatable. While it is possible for such things to be a part of an individual’s nature I wouldn’t necessarily call it inevitable as there are ways such things can be prevented.
And even if it is a part of ones nature that still doesn’t take away the severity of the crimes and it does not excuse anybody, nor does it give you the room to call a nation that has committed such crimes “exceptional”.
It’s also worth adding that while such crimes and violence in general may be a part of some people’s nature it’s not necessarily a part of other people’s nature. It comes down to the individual.
And I’m sorry not sorry if you think rape, genocide, and starvation are all what being human is, then that’s incredibly concerning and worrying.
I’m not an idealist for thinking America can do better. Perfection does not exist, hence, there’s always room for improvement. And given the division within America, the rate of COVID, the healthcare system, and I could go on- there’s certainly room for improvement.
If you think America is at its best then you’re pretty delusional.
I'm still going to appreciate my life in this exceptional nation. USA is the greatest country in the world. People from most every nation in the world still want to become part of this great nation, no one want to immigrate to a racist unexceptional country. Please use common sense.
Oh by all means do so, nobody is telling you to be unappreciative of your home, and if you believe America is exceptional and the greatest country in the world then that’s fine, but many would disagree with you- just don’t cry about it when they do😂
People from third world nations may want to immigrate to America not because it is exceptional but because that is the most realistic opportunity for them to have a better life, given the US is a first world developed nation. And it’s worth noting, not everybody wants to immigrate to the US. Some would rather immigrate the UK, Canada, Australia, Korea, Japan, India, Pakistan, Kenya and many other places in the world.
And I think it’s pretty bold to say “most people” maybe 10 or 20 years ago, but between your COVID rate, the division in the USA, and the increase in bigotry in the USA, I honestly believe a number of people wouldn’t even dream of immigrating to the USA.
I am using common sense and looking beyond the rose-colored glasses that you view the USA with.
Right now, I’m fine with where I’m currently living, England simply because my family and friends are here and it’s pretty much home, but if in the future a better opportunity was to arise in another country I’d certainly consider it.
I'm here witnessing the real USA you are listening to second hand or third hand information. If America was bigoted why are almost 3000 a day coming from Mexico and south America?
@allaboutyou2 You’re there viewing the USA through an extremely biased lense. I know people living in the USA also witnessing the real USA who would strongly disagree with you.
Okay firstly I’m not saying you’re lying, but can you provide evidence for that statistic? And assuming the statistic is true, well in order to obtain a better financial situation and a better future for their children the USA is one of the closest places they can go to in order to get that.
And quite often, people will conclude that the potential facing racism and bigotry in general is worth it, if their children will have a better future.
Sure, not everybody in America is racist and bigoted but it is a huge problem in the country, and to ignore it is very naive and delusional.
@HouseAtredies Right now, yes, England is the best place for me to live, given my family and friends and here, I’m studying in the British Education system.
In a few years once I have finished studying, and perhaps my circumstances in several ways will have changed- there may be a better place than England but right now, nope.
No I mean in regards to our conversation here It is clear you have given you critiques of the United States.. its history.. its problems and you consider it (in our own private conversation) one of the worst nations in History ^ I asked specifically If you believed it was BAD on a Historical standard.. and you answered Yes
So is the UK then a far superior nation? Not only in a sense of modern issues but also historically?
No I wouldn’t consider the UK to be a superior nation. We too have a shameful history, our COVID rate is rising too, our government is handling COVID in a disastrous way and we have many problems today as a nation too, I have no issue with admitting that.
I never said I considered the US to be one of the worst nations, I believe it has one of the worst histories behind it, and yes, the USA and UK are both “BAD” on a historical standard.
"The USA has had a terrible history and yes, compared to other historical forces it is bad." ^ that is the particular aspect of our conversation in private I am speaking about what this implies is that when the USA is compared to other historical powers (be it Rome, Greece, Ottoman Empire, China, Rashidun Caliphate.. etc etc..) It is BAD implying that is is worse than most.
No group of people is superior, why does any group of people have to be superior to another? Is that not generalizing an entire people based on their country?
I don’t know the history behind every country in the world, so I don’t believe it would be appropriate for me to comment on that.
I'm not looking at it in any biased way. I'm looking at it clearly and realistically. I have by far a better quality of life in all aspects than I ever had in England.
@SpiderManFan2002 Being exceptional and being superior are two totally different things. No one is superior, we believe all are created equal and here in America have equal opportunities to be exceptional if we so choose.
Yes, the USA even compared to others, is bad. Regardless of what others did atrocities do not become “good” just because another may or may not have done worse.
Yes from what I know, I do consider the US to be one of the worst historically. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove here lol.
Okay thank you Because you just denied saying that only moments ago and you specifically told me you considered it one of the WORST historically
Then (which you haven't replied privately just yet... but ill give you time) my next point was for you to give me examples of what makes the United States.. one of the WORST historically
you gave clear examples.. slavery... the Native Americans... war crimes ^ in those cases I would ask what makes the United States "Worse" in regards to those issues
In Private I was attempting to ask how we gauge that for one (Perhaps statistically?) and if you are attempting to apply of these issues to the United States as a unique influencer (for example the Native Americans... and the many massacres involved) OR specifically only those that actually apply to the USA? (the Native Americans in particular saw most of their loss of life to other forces not involving the USA)
@allaboutyou2 the other dude asked me which group of people would I consider to be superior.
In America you do not have equal opportunities arguably discrimination against minorities is still rampant within your system. America did not create equal opportunities don’t make me laugh😂😂😂
It was figures such as MLK, Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Rosa Parks etc who played a role in the fight for equal opportunities and to this day, they still don’t exist.
? How so? Barack Obama was able to be President also a non politician like Donald Trump was able to be President and presently a career politician is President. Immigrants have come here and become millionaires, become brain surgeons etc. sounds like equal opportunities to me. Equal opportunities does not guarantee equal outcomes, it takes hard work and determination to succeed.
I never denied saying that lol😂😂😂I said I didn’t believe the USA is one of the worst *nations*, as that is a pretty a bold statement to make. But I never denied saying that I believe the US has the one of the worst histories behind it. There’s a difference.
So TODAY the United States is doing pretty well compared to the rest of the world? but Historically, it has one of the worst?
Ok :)
So once again
You gave me the examples of Slavery, Native Americans, War Crimes What in particular makes United States History one of the WORST... in regards to those issues?
no one is denying the cruelty but "one of the worst histories" is a BOLD statement.. for one who claims to know very little history
If you didn't think what America did was exceptional or right then you wouldn't profit from it.
Stop using the internet it created, the telephone it created, the planes it created, the automobiles it created, the modern phones it created, OIL period, plastics. I could go on and on. You are nothing but a privileged hypocrite insulting the parents who fed clothed and taught you everything that you know as a way to feel superior without in any way being equal much less superior.
The reason it was the Europeans who invaded North America instead of the other way around was because colonial Europe was more sophisticated and capable.
If in a fight to the death you win because you are more capable, clever, hardworking and sophisticated. The only fault lies with your enemy for being lesser.
Also America used slavery less than any other nation in history so go insult every other nation first and when you finish you can come back and convienently insult the country which gave you everything that you have. Then you can explain to me how you would have murdered all the blacks instead of enslaving them. That would have been better right?
Ignorant child. No... not a child. An adult, primitive and uneducated.
America was founded on the ideals of freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not on giving a bunch of things to savages who weren't capable of making or defending them on their own. The American ideal only applied to Americans, citizens who joined, held the American ethos and acted as such. You aren't and weren't an citizen of the Republic by the way. You are far far too inferior.
The Republic was tainted by slavery? So all those blacks should have stayed enslaved in Africa or been killed by those who fought them instead? I agree. The American black became a privileged cancer which helped more quickly rot out the core of the Republic.
@DarkSideCorrino So you are saying it would have been better if to allow 50k primitives to not have to fight for their land and not have the country that created airplanes, vaccines and the internet?
Hold on now @Obscurite us Americans are better than having to resort to name calling and insults. Our ideals promote all being created equal, no one is inferior, everyone has a right to come here legally and enjoy the benefits of this exceptional country.
I am really going to enjoy it now that the Republic fell into the same Socialist State as Nazi Germany. It will finally start actually being far far far worse than you can in your ignorant little mind imagine. Hopefully, it will find an oven for you.
@DarkSideCorrino Overly critical of Europe? The continent and group of cultures which within the last 100 years committed the greatest mass killing of humans in history? Forgiving Germany and helping it avoid reoperations, investing in it was too harsh was it?
You should inquire if there is it is possible to get your BA (primarily in history) refunded.
@allaboutyou2 I am no modern "American" I am (was) as citizen of the Last Great Republic and I call a spade a spade.
I don't (Need) to call a dumb man what he is in order to win an argument, I can, and do do so quite easily by reason alone. No, I choose to. Insults serve the just purpose of deflating ballooned ego's and undermining people who have built their foundations upon sand.
@allaboutyou2 Bullshit "everyone is equal" that's the kind of hogwash that killed the Republic. Pedophiles are not equal to the common man. Women are not equally skilled in the sciences nor as productive at work as men. A man from rural China is not equal in education, productivity or sophistication to the average man of similar age and upbringing in America.
Your baseless lie that everyone is "equal" is the foundation that @SpiderManFan2002 built her house of cards on, the lie which helped destroy the Republic. You are no better than her merely a generation removed.
By the by the Founders never said all men are equal. They wrote that all men have certain inalienable rights. Namely life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They never said that all men are equal or to be treated as such. This is one of the things that makes me a son of the Last Great Republic and you a 2016 MAGA American.
@Obscurite I said created equal with equal opportunity in America, I didn't say everyone took advantage of their opportunities. Example being our last 3 Presidents, a black man, a successful businessman and a career politician. Immigrants can become millionaires with the right determination and hard work. Women can be successful CEOS, lawyers doctors, welders or anything else they put their minds to. Equal opportunities is what makes America exceptional. Name calling and insults detracts from our exceptionalism. If you want to prove yourself less exceptional by your attitude or actions, that's your right. America is better than that.
@allaboutyou2 You attempted to placate her with "America wasn't so bad" "Its about equality" and you got stomped on by someone with nary a fact in her cotton filled head. Like you deserved to be.
The only thing that you are proving by showing respect to those who are both wrong and disrespectful to you and your country is that you are exceptionally weak and bovine, and you can't blame the girl for eating a cow when presented with the opportunity.
@Obscurite the difference between you and me is you seem desperate to convince others that you are superior to them, I know what I am and don't feel the need to prove anything. I live successfully by the golden rule of treating others the way I want to be treated. By stooping to the low of insulting and name calling just proves to me that you are not as superior as you think you are. You expect name calling and insults from intellectually weak individuals, it's what school children do, not thoughtful adults.
@allaboutyou2 One of the thankfully, very many differences between you and I, is that I assert the "exceptionalism" and superiority of my ethos, and beliefs directly in a manner which is open to challenge and criticism. I defend them with reasoned evidence, and I have undoubtedly proven superior, both in this engagement and in general.
You on the other hand hide behind veiled insults and unproven "exceptionalism" you provide neither a defense of your ethos nor are you able to in any way, by reason or fact, refute my own.
You would liken me to a child? Your mentality is that of a deceitful snake. Crawling and seeking to kill indirectly with poison, that which is far stronger than it. It is no surprise that it was under your generations leadership that after 244 years The United States of America would fall not to external enemies but from within, so much for your, supposed, "success".
@allaboutyou2 You are to me, what @SpiderManFan2002 is to you, an insulting, biologically mature, but intellectually childish person completely unable to defend your position.
? You have no clue what @SpiderManFan2002 is to me. You are just commenting on assumptions not facts. I don't feel the need to defend my position, again I'm not trying to justify my position or get validation. I'm a mature individual who knows that I have the correct position and attitude and it is not important to me that people agree with me, I would have to be unsure of my position and insecure about myself to prove or seek validation of my position. We as Americans have the right of our own opinions, I don't need to "prove my superiority " because I am secure in my character, I don't even strive to be superior than anyone else. If one feels the need to prove superiority they probably aren't superior. If it makes you feel superior to put others down and degrade others go right ahead with your sad life. I on the other hand will enjoy my life by lifting others up instead of putting them down. It's the true American way.
@allaboutyou2 I just defined what she is relative to you. You would seem to need to re-read.
"You are just commenting on assumptions not facts."
Incorrect, that would be you projecting, the person who is unwilling to engage with any facts.
"I don't feel the need to defend my position, again I'm not trying to justify my position or get validation."
Those who choose not to defend their position are most often those who can't. Were this a fight you would be bleeding from more than half a dozen stab wounds. That you "feel" no need to defend your chosen personality merely seals the loss for you. Not to mention really makes my point about you being bovine.
@allaboutyou2 "I'm a mature individual who knows that I have the correct position and attitude and it is not important to me that people agree with me, I would have to be unsure of my position and insecure about myself to prove or seek validation of my position."
Mealy mouthed again. Put simply "you don't have to be able to defend your position to believe that you are right" So mature haha
"We as Americans have the right of our own opinions, I don't need to "prove my superiority " because I am secure in my character, I don't even strive to be superior than anyone else."
No you just go on about your exceptionalism which you don't like to define and constantly imply others are children without basis.
"If one feels the need to prove superiority they probably aren't superior."
Then when the lion roars it is in truth weakness and bluster? How about when it tears your life philosophy to pieces in front of you and your best defense is claiming that you are to "exceptional" to need to try to save it?
"If it makes you feel superior to put others down and degrade others go right ahead with your sad life."
Superiority is a mere fact. Of course not from the strawman which you attempt "putting down and degrading others" but from proving the superiority of my ethos repeatedly with reason and fact. It is satisfying yes, but that is hardly my main motivation.
"I on the other hand will enjoy my life by lifting others up instead of putting them down. It's the true American way."
Yes you did lift up the millienials, the blacks, the illegal immigrants. All above the Constitution and the Republic. Not to mention above what America stood for, and in so doing betrayed your country and the world.
Despicable. I am done making excuses for your kind the average Conservative is just as despicable as the average Progressive in Washington.
Sure, you live your miserable life, I'll continue respecting my fellow citizens and the purpose America was built on... improving the lives of others around me, not putting down of my fellow citizens. Your attitude proves nothing to me except that you must feel insecure and find satisfaction in minimizing others. Sad, sad life!!
Lol this really blew up😂😂😂Who would’ve thought a bunch of grown ass men, would get so riled up over an 18 y/o stating that she doesn’t believe America is not exceptional😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Im actually dead😂😂😂It’s the ignorance, and division in this comment section for me😂😂😂
You lot are so exceptional that you can’t even agree on what exceptionalism actually is and you’re actually fighting about it😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Please continue its quite entertaining😂😂😂
And as for that other dude who was PMing me, if you really want to we can continue in the PMs- I’m done with these clowns😂😂😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@allaboutyou2 Your complete failure to defend even a single point after your first initial attempt says less about your lack of character than your back handed hypocritical insults and unwillingness to admit your loss. Clearly you were the mediocre boy who losing every play ground competition told himself that he was the "better person" and went on to live a mediocre life secure in his unchallenged and delusional sense of superiority.
@SpiderManFan2002 Whether by insults or reason you got your candy ass handed to you and the wall full of emotes says it better than anything. You are the intellectual equivalent of a water balloon. Thanks for playing.
@SpiderManFan2002 I thought this forum was about discussing opinions. You must think it is about name calling those who don't agree with you. Life is Good!! Nothing will change the fact that I am enjoying my exceptional life.
@allaboutyou2 Nah, I’m just having way too much fun watching you lot cry over a differing opinion and then proceed to fight with each other because you can’t even agree on what exceptionalism is😂😂😂😂😂😂
@SpiderManFan2002 that is part of what makes America exceptional, we can have differing opinions and still be Americans and enjoy the freedoms of speech and free thought. Discussion is not fighting.
@allaboutyou2 😂😂😂😂😂😂That’s not “exceptional” my guy, that’s just called being mature lol and from the sounds of things you two are most definitely fighting😂
There are many other Western nations who have similar laws and protections as what is found in the US. Many Commonwealth nations have Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Most Commonwealth nations also didn't have to go to war to become their own nations and became so through peaceful means.
Though granted the Queen is still the Head of State or whatever, it's ceremonial and decisions in these nations are made by those nations.
The US's approach towards equality and Freedom is of course different here and there, but isn't any more or less special or unique.
The main thing to consider is that words are one thing, actions are another thing. Are those Freedoms and liberties actually enforced and protected equally? Considering Commonwealth nations and the old British Empire abolished slavery long before the US did (Underground Rail road to Canada don't forget) and all the divisions and inequality that is apparent in the US today and throughout history, one has to ask exactly how greater/better the US system really is.
12.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
You're wrong. "Exceptionalism" is where a person/country puts itself before others, regardless of merit or facts which place it on lower merits.
American "exceptionalism" was really a phase under Trump, but has been tried before. Turned out to be as wrong as him.
America is a mongrel nation, made up of immigrants from across the world. It was founded on imported slavery, land stolen from natives, using colonial laws which have never worked properly. Which is why it is the most unequal, and neurotic society of all nations. Where a black man is 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist. A women gets paid less than a man, despite doing the same work. A non domiciled billionaire is more likely to get a tax cut, than a tax paying small business will, and it has the world's largest prison population, despite not being among the top five most populated.
America was a failed European experiment and needs to be broken up like the Soviet Union was, and for the same reasons. America is a relic that is no longer fit for purpose in a modern world.
the entire point of a country, any country, is to put itself ahead of others. a nation is a collective bargaining unit for the people living inside it; like a union
Yes, I believe in it, though clearly a lot of the country does not. A big chunk of Americans are pushing for Marxism and the destruction of the country. They somehow believe it will bring a utopia, despite history showing again and again that it brings nothing but poverty and oppression to 99.9% of the people living under it.
There's a reason people from Marxist countries were willing to die just for a chance to reach the US, and also a reason why Marxist countries have armed guards to keep people IN. Many of the people fighting the hardest to bring about a Marxist revolution here would be the first ones lined up and shot if they succeeded. That's also happened in every Marxist revolution.
Talk to anyone who lived behind the Iron Curtain and see what they have to say - they've seen it both ways.
This is funny. So who are the supposed Conservatives who do not believe in American exceptionalism, when that is one of American Conservatism's founding principles?
American exceptionalism has been a plank of the Republican party platform since 2012. The platform adopted in 2016 defines it as "the notion that our ideas and principles as a nation give us a unique place of moral leadership" and affirms that the U. S. therefore must "retake its natural position as leader of the free world."
I believe the United States is an exceptional nation for many reasons including those you listed. However I don't agree with the idea that America is only an idea and was founded solely on an idea. I believe America is also a place, with its own blood and soil, and its own unique people. And because of that latter belief, I think America is like almost every other country which treasures its land and unique character and sovereignty. The "America is just an idea" meme strips us of our unique heritage set in this particular place.
I voted used to be exceptional. America truly did influence most nations of the world by it's classical liberal policies. No official state church (freedom of religion), no more nobility or titles, just pure industrialism and rising to your potential. In Europe at the time, you could only rise up so far in society by wealth alone. Not having a name or a title limited your potential. We also became such an economic, technological and military powerhouse. However, just like the Roman empire before us, eventually other nations catch up. The European Union, China, and to a lesser extent Russia are still strong and the United States isn't exceptional in any arena today compared to other nations.
The American project was flawed from day one. How can you produce a constitution that guarantees personal liberty for all individuals while keeping slaves? It's a primary exercise in what George Orwell described as "doublethink" in his influential novel "1984". So what do you do when you have a population of former slaves after abolishing slavery and giving them civil rights? Simple... shoot the bastards.
Disclaimer: For entertainment purposes only. Do not shoot any bastards.
That being said, jingoism isn't unique to the United States. Russia and China are arguably more aggressively jingoist than my country's neocunts are. The reason they complain about us more than anyone else comes down to jealousy and the US's edge in technology.
Our master use that excuse to make war, invade, bomb, and murder millions of people because we want their land, oil, or other natural resources. And, since people are ignorant and selfish, 95% of Americans will go along with it, because they believe our government media and/or it benefits them.
The USA is neither good nor exceptional other than the fact that currently they are the primary world power. Form Portugal, to Spain, to France, to England, to the USA, each primary world power has maintained that position about 100 years. Probably within the next 25 years, the USA will be replace with another primary world power; likely China or possibly Russia. They too, will consider themselves to be exceptional and will use their power to invade, take over, murder and rob other countries for their benefit. However, they will be no better nor worse than the USA is.
@007kingifrit There are a few alternate media sources, I mostly believe. However, I don't trust mainstream media with the following exception. I believe they do the best they can with weather reports, and obituaries, sports, and society pages.
No. There are plenty of things that I like about the United States, but by those metrics, there are a handful of countries that are just... better. Like Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, maybe Poland... etc. I think impulsively believing that the U. S. is the best country on earth is just... I can't see how anyone could arrive at that conclusion without being uncritical, or just not bothering to analyze other countries at all.
Many countries have been 'exceptional' throughout history. The USA had a fairly short run by comparison. The current political and social breakdown is the other historical part of history repeating itself.
It will take a miracle to avoid a 'great reset' and avoid becoming an authoritarian regime before a 'great reset' happens. Lots of people are probably going to die. You can feel it in the air, and it's terrifying.
Update: With the senate hearing vote today, the USA is now an international JOKE. Now there's precedent that no president can be held accountable for anything. Bring on the authoritarians.
Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry his own weight, this is a frightening prospect.
Eleanor Roosevelt
Back then the US was Exceptional.
0
0 Reply
Anonymous
(45 Plus)
+1 y
America hasn't even had a properly inclusive democracy for 75 years yet. What they do have is a messed up education system that perpetuates this nonsense of American Exceptionalism, by preventing them from looking at other countries or examining their own many many failings and shortcomings.
The ‘no’ people here are just defeatists. They have never experienced a winning team that is on fire. They are the kid that sits in the dugout in a losing team and they complain. People literally risk their lives to get to the US and those people would never talk like some of these people. Those new people will succeed.
yes, the rest of the world needs america, we don't need them
america is oil independent, strong, isolated, and we are the least involved in global trade out of any country in the world (no really) we don't need aaaaany of them
but they all depend on USA to keep the peace so they can stfu
I think those who think that do not know how things work in other countries, particularly in Europe. I think American Exceptionalism is a narrative maintained to create an illusion to make every day American people forget that they are getting fucked in the ass constantly by ultra-rich people.
No I believe they just say that they r more than anyone.
The theory of equal fair justice was created by the English as part of the Magna Carta
many countries have the same levels of freedom as the US. In fact the US has the highest percentage of incarcerated citizens in the western world meaning technically they r the least free.
Who ever believes that, they truly are the definition of ignorance. And need just to do a really simple google search for what the top countries are because shocker america ain't number 1.
1
0 Reply
Anonymous
(30-35)
+1 y
America is exceptional at murdering innocent people, spreading chaos all across the world, starting wars, creating cultural garbage like porn and gangsta rap, promoting debauchery and corruption, meddling in other countries' policies...
I think American Exceptionalism was very successful patriotic propaganda, but that there’s not really anything that makes us better than many other nations. The U. S. A. has always had winners and losers.
Exactly. What made America exceptional was the shunning of state-backed religious institutions and societal castes in favor of freedom of opportunity and expression. What was established was as close to a pure meritocracy as we could get. We had our flaws as a society, and it's a testament to the merits of our system of government that we overcame them. This was classic liberalism.
What we see with the modern left is government backed reinforcement of a wide range of self destructive behaviors. And when you subsidize something, you get more of it. So the direction we're going is increasingly toward self destruction as society rots from the bottom up. And that disproportionally harms those who have the most to gain from upward mobility, ie those who were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths.
The split between how many men and women answered and the complexity of their answers is an amusing testament to the fact that the average women simply isn't fit to vote.
I like the "American The gramd experiment" that never ends. Always trying to get better but never reaching the top because of new heights and new challenges.
Except that it wasn't. Like every other country in the world its had good times and bad. Slavery, rather makes a mockery of individual liberty, private property rights, and equal justice for all.
18.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
The United States constitution is special in history, but our country isn’t some divine exception to human existence. We have done and are doing nasty things. And good things. Like the rest of the world.
America was once exceptional in that it had the highest standard of living one Earth but I wouldn't say that this means that America is inherently exceptional (every dog has its day).
Yeah, it’s so bad people are fleeing America in mass to get out of here. The try to smuggle themselves out in shipping containers and put themselves in crates and ship themselves elsewhere to escape the horrors of America.
I’d have to say yes. I can’t think of any other countries people will build a raft out of plywood and take to shark infested waters to get to. The rest of the world wants to come here for a reason.
January 6, 2021, that was the day it ended. We can regain a bit if Trump is found guilty in this trial (which he won't be) or found guilty in a criminal trial.
I believe we have the potential and we at least had it a couple decades ago but now the constitution is kindling to our government so that may never happen again.
You think that "you" have a country after stealing a presidential election? Tell me how that worked for Venezuela. Any time you install a party by breaking the voting system they just keep cheating and your vote doesn't matter either, so its not "your country" anymore.
Don't brother denying the stolen election, Google gerrymandering alone shifted enough votes and everyone knows it. Your side just denies it thinking you won. Historically you won yourself a Communist bread line.
Girl's Behavior 
Guy's Behavior 
Flirting 
Dating 
Relationships 
Fashion & Beauty 
Health & Fitness 
Marriage & Weddings 
Shopping & Gifts 
Technology & Internet 
Break Up & Divorce 
Education & Career 
Entertainment & Arts 
Family & Friends 
Food & Beverage 
Hobbies & Leisure 
Other 
Religion & Spirituality 
Society & Politics 
Sports 
Travel 
Trending & News 
