For those of you that want to criminalize abortion what are your main reasons?

[Aimée__LJ]

Updates

+1 y

It's really weird how men are the ones that have an issue with this. Woman's body woman's choice.

[hahahmm]

1. I'm tired of so many women claiming that women are the best at nurturing. 2. I'm tired of women who've had dozens of abortions pretending to be good mothers. Okay, maybe you're a good mother to 1 kid but you were a bad mother to 20 kids. 3. Parental rights are too lopsided right now. A woman can abort the child without even consulting the dad. A man was forced to pay child support and lose all his parental rights simply because he ASKED his girlfriend if she was going to get an abortion. The judge said it was proof that he shouldn't have any rights. What a joke. 4. It dehumanizes human life. If we say it's wrong to kick a cat/dog because it makes us less human I don't see how a woman having a bazillion abortions could be a good idea. 5. It's a huge profit making industry. Imagine if some company was making billions from people getting punched in the face or raped. Doesn't sound right to me.

All of that said... I think a woman does have a right to control what happens in her body. But maybe if abortion wasn't legal she'd have to think more about what and who she lets into her body & I don't see how that's a bad thing.

[hahahmm]

Or the other option, as Dave Chapelle says: give men the right to opt out of paying for a child. If a woman can abort the kid the man should have the right to financially do the same. That would at least solve my point #3.

[Aimée__LJ]

Men can opt out. They can waive their rights. I've never heard of the case you mentioned I'd need evidence of that. Very unlikely for someone to have that many abortions. Either way banning abortions doesn't stop them from happening it just stops them from happening safely. If you ban abortions people are going to do it in unsafe ways which risks their life. Banning them isn't about lessening abortion rates it's about controlling women.

[hahahmm]

@Aimée__LJ Only recently did women start to have to pay child support and only if she doesn't get custody (of course) which is rare. The courts favor women heavily. As far as 'banning abortions doesn't stop them from happening' - that's true of rape to. Should we make rape legal then? I don't think you made a good argument. "Banning them isn't about lessening abortion rates it' about controlling women". Men and women get controlled by laws all the time. Are you saying that women should be above the law and less controlled than men? I actually believe a woman should potentially have full authority over what happens in her body since that follows from nature BUT society meddles with our supposed rights all the time so I'm not sure this should be off limits to meddling to some degree. I can see two possible ways that sound fair to me:
a. both parents can decide to terminate. Both need to agree.
b. she has to be in a territory where it's allowed & she can't be stopped from going there but if the dad was aware she was pregnant he has to be informed too.

Anyhow, I don't think a woman should have the right not to tell a guy she's carrying his baby. Unless he literally raped her. If she can carry his baby to term/almost and then abort it without even telling him, that's horrible.

[Aimée__LJ]

The courts favor good parents. Men don't bother to show up. That is why most women get custody.

Stupid analogy.

Please tell me a law that directly affects mens bodily autonomy and men only.

People don't abort unwanted pregnancies in late term. Those are medically necessary abortions. To save the woman's life.

[hahahmm]

Fair point on late term although. Far as good parents: let's be real. The one with the best sob story wins & society usually assumes that women are innocent/helpless angels and men are bastards. You can see that when you look at how a woman who does the same crime as a man will get a fraction of his sentence or no sentence at all.

[Aimée__LJ]

Simply untrue there is no sob stories. In cases of fighting for full custody it would go to the primary care giver unless the primary caregiver was seen to be unfit/abusive.

[Aimée__LJ]

Also yeah sentencing for various things are different men vs women, black vs white, rich vs poor, they're not fair at all but it's not only in favor of women all the time

[msc545]

Men can waive parental rights, sure. They cannot WAIVE child support.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 yes they can... Depending on the laws in your state terminating your parental rights ceases any requirements for child support payments. Legally the child is not yours anymore

[hahahmm]

"Simply untrue there is no sob stories." -- Ha ha! Thanks for the laugh. I think I will print that up and put it in a book of jokes.

[msc545]

No, you are wrong. If a man terminates parental rights, he still needs to have the consent of the other parent to also terminate child support - if he didn't, do you have any idea how many men would be rushing to terminate all of it? Plenty, since women routinely deny men visitation to enable them to go to court and say "he doesn't visit" so that the court will order less visitation and child support will then increase. Violations of visitation orders are NOT enforced against women.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 I suggest you do some research on terminating rights.

[msc545]

I suggest you stop playing lawyer.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 wouldn't have to if you researched it yourself.

[ChrisMaster69]

Over the few months I’ve been here, I’ve been amazed at how much divide this generates.

in England it’s one of those really shit parts of life that people get on with, it’s not looked at in this way.

also it’s one of those questions where it’s like an 90% women are pro choice and 90% of men are against.

I am pro choice with professional medical support in all parts of the decision making.

a lot of seem to be a very American moral & ethical dilemma.

a bit in a away like firearms, that’s another moral dilemma.

I wonder can you be against abortion but then pro firearms.

[ChrisMaster69]

For those against abortion / Pro choice.

I gave the following scenario to someone last week, which they failed to answer.

100 women are pregnant, medical science shows that each pregnancy will result in a child that has damaged spine, blind and deaf.
Doctors have advise they will need 24/7 care and feeding via tube and waste management system.
They have also advised life expectancy will be 60 years plus.

As a parent, do you abort or not, this is aimed at those who are against it,

[TheVoid777]

First off you are not superior to anyone Mr sophisticated British snob. Your country is being taken over by medieval Mohammadens that will some day get around to lopping off your arrogant head. In your scenario you came up with the doctors may or may not be right. They tell women all the time their baby will be born with down syndrome and they are wrong. Even if they are right the lives of those people are just as valuable as yours. They can enjoy food and anything about life that they can. Who says you get to decide who lives and dies.

[msc545]

@chrismaster69 easily. Firearms are not necessarily used for killing, and abortions are.

[ChrisMaster69]

@msc545 firearms exist to kill.

The only reason for a pistol is to kill efficiently and effectively.

There are designed along with ammunition the be lethal..

[ChrisMaster69]

@TheVoid777 This scenario - your decision your choice on the 100 lives, YES OR NO

[ChrisMaster69]

@Aimée__LJ thank you most appreciated

[devilish-cutie]

people think that immoral things as abortion means it shouldn't be allowed but its not that simple. Thhere are cases of justified abortion like rape or risky pregnancy. Men also hate that they cannot control women but guess what? Even if you forbid it women will still do it, so you can only increase black market abortions and with it tons of other issues. Men also wane about child support and such and dont realize that they also made the choice to ot their dick in womans vagina and ejaculate, with contraception nowdays there is no excuse. Besides women do carry a child for 9 month and give it birth so yes, that gives them more right over child fate than the fact that man gave their sperm.

[MzAsh]

I used to be pro-life when I was a teenager. At least, I thought I was. Looking back now, I was brainwashed by religion and the idea that women need to preserve their virginity and purity. Being against abortion was a means for control. They want to keep women submissive. I had no idea what I was thinking so I let others think for me. As I grew up and started thinking for myself, my views have changed a lot.

[Aimée__LJ]

It's weird that religion plays a role because the bible isn't even against abortion

[msc545]

@MzAsh You are right. We want to keep women from murdering babies.

[MzAsh]

Want it all you want.

[Anonymous]

1) What are your many well-researched reasons for supporting abortion?
- Do you even know what an actual abortion is?
- Have ever you seen one done?
- Do you know what the procedure looks like?


2) There are many women who are AGAINST abortion, the media just chooses to ignore them because they’d rather have everyone believe that it’s just men worried about women’s issues. Most of the Anti-Abortion Movement is run by women. Women of any age, not only old women or religious women.


3) One doesn’t have to be part of something in order to be able to oppose or support it.
- Do you tell vegetarians not to protest meat eating?
- Do you tell gun control supporters not to protest the rights of gun owners?
- Do you tell people who haven’t been raped not to speak out against rape?
- Do you tell people who haven’t had friends or family murdered not to speak on the death penalty?
- Do you tell people who don’t go to church not to speak about and against religion?


Your logic doesn’t make any sense.

[Opinion Owner]

That was supposed to be #3, not 😌

[Aimée__LJ]

1. I don't need research to support something like abortion, it's a personal choice. If you don't support it don't get one it's that simple.
Yes I know what an abortion is.
Yes I know what the multiple different procedures look like. I have had one.

Of course there are women against abortion. Never said there wasn't. You can be against something for yourself and shut the fuck up about other peoples lives.

What logic are you talking about exactly?

[Opinion Owner]

Just ignoring the issue won’t make it go away.

- The Nazis to the rest of Europe and the USA: “Don’t worry about the Holocaust, it has nothing to do with you.
- The KKK to everyone else: “Don’t worry about what we do to black people, it doesn’t have anything to do with you.

You may see anything wrong with abortion but that doesn’t mean that those who do should just “shutup about it, you Commie Fascist Little Brat!

[Opinion Owner]

*may not see anything wrong with it

[Aimée__LJ]

It's a medical procedure. Just because it goes against your morals doesn't mean it goes against anyone elses. Stop comparing things to the fucking holocaust it's disgusting and disrespectful.

[Anonymous]

It's obvious that most of those opposing abortion, do so, in order to control others. Why is this obvious? Because so many of that demographic say it's about saving lives, but they get very upset when asked to wear a mask or get a vaccination to save lives. Even though 600,000 Americans have died of Covid. Both situations are about saving lives, but they only care about saving lives, when it comes to controlling others.

[Aimée__LJ]

👆 couldn't have said it better myself

[rjroy3]

To be fair that's a fallacious argument. There's disagreement over mask saving lives while there is no refuting that not having an abortion saves lives.

You could apply your same logic and example by comparing it to those against murder. "It's obvious those against murder, do so, in order to control others. Why is this obvious? -example continues-"

That doesn't hold up because they're not comparable.

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 it's pretty evident that masks help protect people as do vaccines. If you're anti mask and anti vax you are not pro life, it shows you don't actually care about people, you're pro birth not pro life bc you don't care what happens to the child after birth, don't care what happens to the mother either.

[rjroy3]

If a sick person masks up so to minimize risk of spreading. Sure the risk is lower to pass it. That act did not save a life tho. There's actually a stronger case to be made that mass masking caused more health risks which are actually documented.

Rather than the elusive mental gymnastics you have to go to in order to equate wearing a mask as a healthy individual, to saving lives of those at risk.

A mask doesn't stop you from being a carrier of the virus. That's not how it works

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 please show proof of masks caused health risks. That sounds like some anti mask propaganda...

[Aimée__LJ]

Wearing masks in the case of covid helps prevent spreading. You sneeze into a mask less droplets come through. So when talking even less go through again. So yeah it's saved lives. Less spread, less cases, less lives lost. Simple equation really.

With abortions. Less abortions, less lives lost sure. But criminalizing abortions aren't the way to get less abortions, infact it increases deaths because people seek unsafe abortions.

[rjroy3]

clinmedjournals.org/.../...emiology-jide-6-130.php

If a scientific journal is considered propaganda to you, then I guess it won't matter what I share lol. But this one study tested 343 medical professionals and many experienced issues. Some requiring medical intervention from longterm use.

Not saying this is the case. But I'm curious if within the next 5 years we're going to have an uptick in medical conditions pertaining to lungs that won't be attributed to this when it had effects

[rjroy3]

Yes if you contracted the virus, mask will mitigate spread from sneezing as you stated. Now for the vaaaast majority of the population who doesn't have the virus.

The mask does nothing because you don't have it. That's not how masks are intended to be used. They're meant for sick people and medical professionals dealing with known sick when they're in a high risk situation to catch something.

Just making everyone was something the Government decided so the people could feel like something is being done (, to mitigate fear) even the the action is pointless in 99% of cases

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 did you actually read that... They experienced short term issues... Headache, rashes and acne... Cognitive issues (probably from headaches) also it's from prolonged use with nurses... Who are wearing them for 12 + hours. Not general public who wear them for maybe a 8 HR shift, or an hour in a store.

I would hardly call those issues more of a health risk than covid 19 🤦🏼‍♀️

If people got kung issues from wearing masks we would see that by now with surgeons.

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 yes masks are meant for sick people but in the case of cov19 you can be contagious well before you show symptoms, you can be contagious and not even show symptoms. This has been repeated to us multiple times I'm not sure how that hasn't sunk into your head.

[rjroy3]

I did read the study. You glossed over the fact some needed medical intervention. Yes, some experienced dizziness and headaches. You don't think daily headaches will effect your health over say 6 months?

You're not being honest with yourself. Can masks help? Certainly. Do they in all cases? No. That's why all medical sources emphasize masks "can" help. They do not say fullproof mask = saved.

Additionally, long-term use does have negative health effects. If you want to down play them. Fine. But they do exist and it's documented. Nonetheless this is getting away from the initial point that has been upheld through this bunny trail.

Abortion = 100% chance to end a life

No mask does not equal 100% chance to end a life.

Wearing mask does not equal saves lives. Just a chance to decrease the likelihood a scenario in which a life "might" be at risk from happening and thereby theoretically maybe saving a life or two here and there.

That's a lot of maybe and qualifiers to make the claim that wearing masks saves lives when even medical outlets don't even say that. They're honest and say masks "can" help.

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 did you read what it recommended? More breaks, water and skincare. You know how nurses could get more breaks? If people wore masks and social distanced so they didn't over crowd the medical sectors...

But "saving lives" isn't the point of the analogy. It's just that people that don't follow these restrictions obviously don't actually care about people living. They even started using "my body my choice" like c'mon the hypocrisy is insane.

[rjroy3]

Aka you're going off paranoia

"I might be sick and not know. I HAVE to wear the mask to be sure".

You can be contaminated while wearing the mask and spreading it to others. Seriously. Set aside time to learn how viruses in general function, how they're passed, how vaccines work and their functionality, as well as the mechanism of mask wearing

When you know what they do you'll understand why a lot of what you've been told is quite frankly idiotic. And repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.

I'm not saying all we've been told is a lie. But they got a lot of shit wrong that they blasted out as gospel and people such as yourself have said to follow the experts every step of the way. When they got it wrong multiple times now.

Think for yourself

[rjroy3]

The point of the analogy was actually self defeating because it's quite literally about controlling other people's actions, when that's the assertion he's making about them lol.

He's saying he is right, that he's morally just and actually cares about lives and that "they" are morally inept. Just trying to control people and don't actually care about lives.

While telling them what they should do (asserting control) when they honestly believe the masks don't help. Aka in their mind the masks aren't saving lives.

at least in their case they don't equate mask wearing to health risk. You and him both just sidestep the fact abortion is ending a life entirely while attempting to use rhetoric to take the moral high ground and win the argument.

Now that's really fucked

[Aimée__LJ]

@rjroy3 honestly you're impossibly stupid
How does covid spread? By water droplets
What do masks do? Prevent most water droplets from spreading.
Paranoia? No it's called being careful and caring about other people.

I don't want to get sick, I don't want you to get sick. What can I do to help prevent both of us from getting sick, experts (as in people who have studied this longer than our 5-10 min google search) say wear a mask and social distance right so I do that.

[Aimée__LJ]

Also you realize that pregnancy itself is a major health risk right? It comes with a lot of complications.

I'll say it again, abortion isn't murder. You're not pro life, you're pro birth. If you cared about life you'd be fighting against far greater things than this. Womens bodies are being controlled and it's disgusting.

[BCA6010]

Religion says life begins at conception. Science says life begins at inception. In either case, this is well before a pregnancy is typically detected, and therefore well before an abortion is even under consideration.

Abortion: the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

Murder: the premeditated, unlawful killing of one human being by another.

Because an unborn baby is in fact alive (whether one wants to acknowledge that or not), abortion is murder. Murder is illegal. Making exceptions is not an acceptable way of enforcing laws, or else you open the door to more loopholes.

[Aimée__LJ]

What makes something alive?

[BCA6010]

The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

[Aimée__LJ]

What makes humans alive 🧐

[Anonymous]

I think there are a few things going on.
Firstly people confuse right and wrong to mean legal or not illegal.
Guns in America kill more people everyday than abortions. But are guns made illegal? No. Why? Because of the belief that people have freewill and the right to hold arms.

I personally do not believe abortion is right. But I do believe that people should have the right to choose and have freewill.

i think you need to understand it’s not so much about men not understanding or having an issue with this. I think it’s the fact that they don’t have to deal with the consequences of their opinion. So it’s very easy to throw one out there.

[Ninjazzed]

Exactly.

[HollyK21]

Can’t wait to see all the over-opinionated men storm this post to demonize women and tell us what to do with our bodies☺️✨

[TheVoid777]

We don't care what you do with your body. Just don't hurt the innocent baby that can feel pain inside the mother's womb.

[Aimée__LJ]

@TheVoid777 fetus can't feel pain until viability about 24 weeks.

[HollyK21]

@Aimée_LJ thanks for dropping some knowledge for the man who decided to prove my point lol

[Agape93]

Lol dude didn’t waste time in looking retarded

[ChrisMaster69]

@Agape93 he’s an American and a guy on an abortion thread, it really was not hard to predict.

[TheVoid777]

@ChrisMaster69 you are really insulting me for being an American? At least we are not complete woke commies like you British flags.

[HollyK21]

@thevoid777 I know, thank god there are still a few logical men who don’t share your warped thought process, amiright?

[TheVoid777]

He is a girl bootlicker is all. He just wants to agree with anything women say. No matter how depraved.

[Agape93]

Oh I know Chris. I don’t usually waste time on hateful fools like void.

[TheVoid777]

@Agape93 you are satanist. Your religion is based on hatred of Christianity. You don't get to call other people haters.

[HollyK21]

@thevoid777 her profile is private how would you even know anything about her lol, stop being so negative and rude.

[Agape93]

Nah I’m not a satanist. :/ I wonder what else you’ll pull out of your ass next.

Also yes, I’ll call someone hateful if they’re being hateful. That includes you void.

[ChrisMaster69]

@TheVoid777 you really need to try and engage that brain of yours and come up with better insults.

Have a look at the 100 baby scenario I posed on this question, and come back with a yes no answer.

[TheVoid777]

@Agape93 your profile symbol is a Satanist symbol whether you know it or not. Maybe you are the fool.

[Agape93]

It’s a thelemic symbol, not satanic. Maybe educate yourself before you vomit all over the keyboard again

[blank_expression]

There is no proving anything in this debate. How you see this is about you and how you are made. Those that believe abortion is okay, should do the right thing, and simply get fixed right now and never be in the presence of children because they are simply not fit to raise one. Their view of life is superficial.

[Aimée__LJ]

So if I were to get pregnant I shouldn't keep the pregnancy because I'm pro choice?

[msc545]

Unfortunately, the law allows you to hire someone called a "doctor" to murder it.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 murder is a legal thing. Abortion is legal therefore not murder.

[Leavesbound]

I only think 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions should be criminalized. First trimester should be a right. As for why? Because definitely during the third, and at some point during the second, a baby is a human being, a thinking and feeling person with the same right to live as anyone else.

[Aimée__LJ]

Late term abortions generally happen because of medical necessity.

[Leavesbound]

The majority of those pregnancies can be saved. A premature baby at 21 weeks can survive. It is very rare that the need to save a mother's life precludes either inducing early labor or taking the baby by C-section.

[Aimée__LJ]

You realize abortions also happen when the fetus naturally miscarries and a medical abortion is necessary to evacuate them so the woman doesn't get an infection...

[msc545]

No, they happen because women can't decide.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 no they happen because people can't afford to have children, are not ready, don't want children, or have something go wrong with the pregnancy

[Leavesbound]

Those are not what I am talking about and while technically an abortion is involved, those kind of abortions have never been outlawed even pre Rowe V Wade. Those are always recorded as miscarriages not abortions even though the procedure for removing the dead fetus is often the same.

[Leavesbound]

Yes those are often reasons given but murdering someone because their existence is inconvenient is never justified.

[Aimée__LJ]

No it's counted in the abortion stats. As well as abortions of a fetus that won't live to term, in cases where the fetus never develops an important part/organ. These people under proposed restrictions will be forced to carry a fetus that they wanted to term knowing it won't survive outside of the womb. Traumatic.

[Leavesbound]

Whatever stats that is counted as that has no bearing on what I said as those are not abortions of convenience and over 90% of abortions are in that category.

[Aimée__LJ]

Yup and that's ok. Issue is that proposed laws actually do effect every aspect of abortions, whether it's because the person doesn't want the pregnancy or a wanted pregnancy gone wrong.

[Anonymous]

I think women should be able to get abortions in certain situations but it certainly should not be substituted with pregnancy contraceptives. Like take ur protective measures beforehand... and if it happens take the responsibility. I get it if pregnancy poses a danger on the mom’s life or is a result of a non consensual incidence.

[Joseph69]

Once we decide as a society, that it is acceptable to kill someone if they are an inconvenience, we are setting a dangerous president, where any crime becomes quite conceivable, including genocide.
They say that Jesus saved us by sacrificing himself for our sins, he showed that we must make sacrifices for eachother, abortion says that no we do not have to sacrifice for eachother, we become the unsaved.

[Aimée__LJ]

Not sure what Jesus has to do with anything. The bible isn't against abortion...

[Joseph69]

If you understand Christianity, it is about sacrifice, we live in a better world, because we make sacrifices for eachother, a man who pressures a woman to have an abortion, dose so as to avoid any responsibility, and any subsequent sacrifice which he might have to make. Saying no, I don't want to make a sacrifice, is equivalent to saying, I am not a Christian. We all benefit from living in a Christian society, and we begin to live in a cold, brutal and cruel world when we turn our backs on eachother, and rejected our Christian heritage.

[Aimée__LJ]

Sacrifice fetuses. Give god the little critters

[Joseph69]

www.vaticansite.com/.../

[Aimée__LJ]

What's this supposed to do for me?

[Ninjazzed]

Wait..

Didn’t God supposedly murder innocent children, including babies?

From what I recall, God sent the angel of death to kill the firstborn sons of the Egyptians.

Delusional bible-thumpers, man. I thought we were past letting religious dogma blind our ability to use logic, but I guess not..

Nothing beneficial about dedicating your life to a lost cause.

[Sargentcaptain]

I'm generally pro choice, but I wanna play the devil's advocate.

How is abortion not murder?

Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

Murder - the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

[Aimée__LJ]

The same way taking someone off life support isn't murder.

[Sargentcaptain]

That would depend. Aborting a baby that wouldn't live anyway, or a grown adult that is highly unlikely to live is not murder. Aborting a healthy baby/pulling the plug on someone who's gonna live is murder.

[Aimée__LJ]

Okay what about all the healthy children that don't have homes already. I assume your argument would be that a woman could go with the trauma of an unwanted pregnancy, ruin her body, risk her life and then give the baby up for adoption. Failing to realize 250,000 children end up in foster care every single year in the usa alone. Now your taxes are paying for abuse of living children.

[Sargentcaptain]

"Okay what about all the healthy children that don't have homes already."

What about them? What is your solution? Just slaughter them?

"I assume your argument would be that a woman could go with the trauma of an unwanted pregnancy"

Don't want a baby, don't have sex. If you do, you understand the risks and have decided that they are worth it, thus accepting any consequences.
Rape babies are incredibly rare, and even a lot of pro lifers are fine with abortion in such cases.

"ruin her body"

Again, she understood the risk she was taking. Besides that, would you really argue that murdering someone is worth it because of your stretch marks? Even if you don't see it as murder, certainly you can understand that pro life people do, and you can see that your argument here is dogshit.

"risk her life"

Absolutely negligible risk. You have a much higher chance of dying by falling off the stairs than by pregnancy complications in hospitals in the US.

"Failing to realize 250,000 children end up in foster care every single year in the usa alone. Now your taxes are paying for abuse of living children."

Abuse? Are you out of your mind? What on Earth are you talking about?
Would you rather live without your parents, or have your mother murder you? Besides that insane little exaggeration, what the hell does the number of children in the program have to do with this? I'd much rather be paying for the homes of these children than for murder of children abroad via foreign aid to monstrous contrives and direct attacks on counters like Afghanistan, and I definitely wouldn't wanna kill these babies because muh taxes. I'd say that the program should receive more money and that the kids there should live in a better environment, certainly not an abusive one.

[Aimée__LJ]

Dude thousands of foster kids are abused every year. My friend @Smashingdoozy was in foster care and can tell you about how it actually is.

Stretch marks are the least of the issues. Nobody cares about stretch marks.

Married couples who don't want any more kids should just not have sex then? Way to prove a point of women only being useful as baby incubators. You care more about an unborn fetus than people who are alive.

You are also paying for the murder of children and adults abroad. But I'm sure you support the military hm.

[Sargentcaptain]

"Dude thousands of foster kids are abused every year."

Sure would help if this program was given more money and care instead of the one that is only there to kill people. Also, by some stats child abuse is much more common in biological parents than in foster parents. It's almost as if this is a stupid point. And again, choice, your mother kills you or you live with what is statistically gonna be a better caregiver?

"Stretch marks are the least of the issues. Nobody cares about stretch marks."

And what is the issue? What is it that justifies the murder of another human?

"Married couples who don't want any more kids should just not have sex then?"

Are you aware of condoms? IUDs, implants, injections, several types of pills, diaphragm, rings, a slue of surgeries for both sexes and so on?

"Way to prove a point of women only being useful as baby incubators."

If you don't want to clean the dishes, you don't get them dirty. If you do get them dirty you've accepted that you'll have to do the cleaning. Same exact logic with unwanted babies. Stop the mindreading and projection. Like I've said, I'm not really anti abortion, but I do find these arguments fascinating.

"You care more about an unborn fetus than people who are alive."

What are you going on about?

"You are also paying for the murder of children and adults abroad."

You get that I don't want to, right? You get that technically I'm paying for abortions too, right? You understand that this point is dogshit, right?

"But I'm sure you support the military hm."

Ah, yes, once you've lost the argument you project, strawmen and divert the conversation to a completely different topic. How nice.

[Aimée__LJ]

You're contradicting yourself. You say don't have sex if you don't want kids. Oh no use protection. No birth control is 100% . If a family cannot afford to have another child or a single child they should not be forced to go through with the pregnancy. Same with mentally ill people, they should not be forced to go through with it. Accidents happen. Abortion rates can be fixed at the source with better access to birth control and better sex education. Not banning abortions.

[msc545]

You don't take a baby off life support. You kill it in the uterus by ripping off its legs with forceps and puncturing and crushing its skull and then removing the pieces. That is how abortions are performed.

[msc545]

better to be in foster care than to be a corpse.

[Aimée__LJ]

@msc545 that's how late term abortions are performed. Which is like 1% of abortions some of which are wanted pregnancies that went wrong.

[Still-alive]

ohhh you'll hear just about all the same ol bullshit as usual. i just wanna post this here to preempt them all though

https://www.youtube.com/embed/fmMvsAjCkog

[Still-alive]

@update "Why, why, why, why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place, huh? "

George Carlin

[Still-alive]

@Aimée__LJ would love to know your thoughts on my new abortion question People who are pro-choice, how do you feel about WOMEN who are Anti-Abortion? ↗

[Ninjazzed]

George Carlin was unironically a fucking genius. Always spits the truth people hate to hear.

[Still-alive]

@Ninjazzed *checks your age* fuck yes! More people your age and everyone needs to wayvh his stuff!

[JackofSpades]

The main reason is that many of them see it as an unborn baby.

And that taking it's life is on par with murder.

I honestly don't know how I feel about it and I personally just believe in "wrap it before you tap it" so I don't have to deal with this moral dilemma.

[Ms_Vanderquack]

Mostly they think that abortion is the same thing as murder.

[Agape93]

That’s because they’re retarded.

[ChrisMaster69]

@Agape93 very much so

[Ms_Vanderquack]

@Agape93 so many people are.

[Dragonpurple]

The biggest thing is those against it see it as murder of a human being, so it is like asking someone why they oppose murder.

That is why rather than saying pro-life and pro-choice, they call it pro-murder and pro-life saving.

[Aimée__LJ]

But its just not murder since it is actually legal

[Dragonpurple]

Legally speaking yes, it is not murder but just like capital punishment is not murder, liberals say it is murder.

Same concept if it became legal to just shoot someone on the street, not murder but a lot of people would be opposed to it being legal and want the law changed.

[Aimée__LJ]

Not murder to take a brain dead person off life support. They have a heartbeat. Essentially the same as a fetus. No cognitive function but has a heart beat.

[Anonymous]

How is abortion not murder? It’s a human life. If you get rid of it within the first month then well that’s somewhat responsible I guess, but it’s always a tragedy. It just disturbs me to see the total lack of empathy women have for them murdering their own child... or them murdering the man’s child when he’s against it.

satanists love when babies get murdered...

[Ninjazzed]

Found the delusional triggered Christian.

[Ninjazzed]

News flash, the man doesn’t develop the child in his body. She does. He has no say over what’s in her body.

[Opinion Owner]

I’m jewish... and agnostic... goof. It’s his child too, takes 2 people to make one. Maybe you’re the delusional one, seeing christians everywhere, I’m literally the opposite of a christian

[Ninjazzed]

To be agnostic, you sure give Satanists a lot of credit.

Maybe your animosity is more potent than your brain cells.

How far does your insanity border on this subject?

So? It still doesn’t require two parents to have an abortion.

Know why? Because the child still isn’t in HIS body.

Yes, you are delusional because you lack the capacity to understand this and your IQ is below favorable.

[Anonymous]

Why can't you kill a baby one minute after it's born? What's the difference? So at 4:00 PM it's OK, to kill the child, but at 4:01 PM, it's murder... What's the difference and who got to decide what that difference is?

[Aimée__LJ]

Abortions don't happen after the baby is viable unless medically necessary.

[Opinion Owner]

In some states they do.

[Aimée__LJ]

Only if medically necessary.

[Opinion Owner]

Bullshit. So how many months should you get to decide?

[Aimée__LJ]

Generally you can't get an abortion past 24 weeks. Again unless medically necessary. Most are done within the first 13 weeks though

[Opinion Owner]

Not in Colorado.

[Aimée__LJ]

Even so still very rare for people to get one that late. Even more so in Colorado considering 87% of the state doesn't have abortion clinics.

[Opinion Owner]

Just kill your fucking kid. Why talk about it on GAG. Hell, kill it after it's born. It wouldn't be that hard to do. Smother it with a pillow.

[Aimée__LJ]

I mean if I got pregnant now I wouldn't be keeping it. I would kill a child though. Very different.

[Aimée__LJ]

Wouldn't kill a child*

[Opinion Owner]

That's between you and the "higher authority."

Hun, the topic of abortion is a waste of time. I actually wish people would stop talking about.
If you feel the need to terminate/abort/kill a baby, then just do it.

Nothing will change. The people who love abortion will be with you and the people who hate abortion will be against you.
But why talk about it?

I eat meat, but I won't debate it with a vegetarian. What's the point? Nothing will change.

If you don't want the baby, and it's legal to do so, then just have it killed.

[Aimée__LJ]

Who tf is higher authority 😐

You just explained that you're pro choice in a rather crass way but alright

[Opinion Owner]

@Ninjazzed

Stop with your sexist crap.

[Aimée__LJ]

Nothing about what she said was sexist.

[Opinion Owner]

"you’re only against abortion because you’re a man,"

[Aimée__LJ]

That's not sexist... She's talking matter of factly. But that's another thing. Men tend to be more against abortion than women which is a fact.

[Opinion Owner]

""you’re only against abortion because you’re black"

I wonder if she would use this phrase?

[Aimée__LJ]

But she didn't say that... So reread what I said.

[Opinion Owner]

Arguing about abortion is absolutely pointless. Wouldn't you agree? Neither of us are going to change our minds. I don't even know why people ask these questions. I mean, what are they after? Validation?
You don't need our approval to kill your baby. It's legal, so just do it. But don't expect people to all pat you on the back for killing a baby. That's all on you. Do what your heart tells you is right.

But I'm glad that you're against late term abortion.

[Aimée__LJ]

Something we have to discuss since people are very misinformed and those same people are trying to write laws that ban abortions. Why do we talk about any issues in society? To be heard and to hope to make a change. If I can change one person's mind about 1 thing then that person will teach their kids that 1 thing and so on and so on. Society won't change if we just sit back and do nothing.

[Opinion Owner]

Are you against late term abortions that are NOT for medical reasons?

[Aimée__LJ]

What do you consider late term? Past viability?

[Opinion Owner]

[Aimée__LJ]

" carrying a son diagnosed with fatal complications."

[Opinion Owner]

Why are you refusing to tell me if you're for or against late term abortions? Yes, in that story the kid had problems, but that clinic seems like anyone can get a late term abortion there.

[Aimée__LJ]

I asked a question and you didn't answer so I couldn't answer your question...

[Aimée__LJ]

Also I can't find any stats on what their client base actually is but I would say 99% of late term abortions is because of complications and I am for that. I don't think an otherwise healthy fetus should be aborted after 24 weeks.

[Opinion Owner]

Third trimester.

[Opinion Owner]

OK, so in response to your original question... do you think it's criminal to abort a healthy fetus after 24 weeks?

[Aimée__LJ]

Obviously it's not in some states. Whether something is criminal or not is not an opinion it's a fact.

[Opinion Owner]

Do YOU think it should be criminal?

[Aimée__LJ]

I think that you shouldn't be able to get abortions in the third trimester unless you or the fetus are in danger of fatality, or the fetus is going to have a very poor quality of life which you cannot support financially.

[Aimée__LJ]

Or mentally

[Opinion Owner]

And performing third trimester abortions on healthy fetuses should be criminal?

[Opinion Owner]

Let me know.

[Aimée__LJ]

Don't think it should be criminalized but shouldn't be allowed. Which it isn't in most places.

[Opinion Owner]

Why did you use the word "criminalize" in your question?

Why not say "shouldn't be allowed?"

[Aimée__LJ]

Because that is what pro lifers want...

[Opinion Owner]

So if every pro lifer responded with: "abortions shouldn't be allowed" then you'd be happy with that vague answer?

[Aimée__LJ]

I don't agree with it but it wasn't what the question asked. I wanted to know why people want it to be criminalized. Usually the same reasons people don't agree with it. But a select few are smart and realize criminalizing doesn't change that it happens

[Opinion Owner]

OK, I don't think abortion should be criminalized, but they shouldn't be allowed.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you care about these unborn babies feeling pain, because the dems in congress don't give two shits about that.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/cXRTnD7JEWQ

[copiecat]

That was awful

[Opinion Owner]

@copiecat

They sold their souls to the devil.

[Agape93]

You just invited the same arguments they’ve always had lol

[Anonymous]

Because abortion is murder, you are taking the life of a baby who has done literally nothing wrong, and no, slightly inconveniincing a woman is not wrong. It should be illegal and anyone who does it goes to prison for murder.

[Opinion Owner]

Should go, not goes, sadly

[Gray-Wisp]

I don't want to live in a society where we can just kill people on a whim.

[Aimée__LJ]

They're fetuses and it doesn't effect you.

[Gray-Wisp]

Yeah it does. Murdering anyone would even if only slightly. If we're going to commit genocide at least just genocide the detriments of society. Find me the person that supports abortion and post abortion but only of they're homosexuals, mentally ill, cripples, or if their IQ is below 80. That person would have a good abortion argument.

[Aimée__LJ]

Do you think taking a brain dead person off life support is murder?

[Gray-Wisp]

That's an extremely complex question that has to have an entire explanation around it. I'll try to keep it short.

Since the topic is abortion I will start with that. Babies begin forming brain waves at 5-7 weeks. If you only support abortions up to 5-7 weeks because you define brain waves as the defining feature of life then that would at least be consistent, assuming that's your definition of life. The general sentiment of there being more evidence for a baby with brain waves being alive than a brain dead person I could agree with.

There is a technology aspect to be taken into account as well. There could easily be advanced technology that could restore his brain waves in the future that we don't have now. Just like we have defibulators that could start someone's heart now but didn't for centuries. I can't even fathom the future device restoring brain waves just like someone from 1000 BC couldn't fathom a defibulator shocking someone to fix their heart. There is no way of telling what kind of technology we will have in the future but the possibility remains we will reach a point where a brain dead person isn't an issue. If we obtain said technology would that make killing them anything less than murder?

[Gray-Wisp]

I believe that being cautious is wise. For example, everyone (unless they're a homosexual or something) can agree that pedophilia is wrong. However, what is pedophilia? Where should the line be drawn? What are the exceptions? In my opinion we should have very few exceptions in an effort to make sure we're not allowing pedophilia. I would say the Romeo & Juliet laws are about it. I would NEVER want to allow pedophilia in my society. I think any reasonable person would err on the side of caution. Similarly, I don't want to allow murder in my society. I think stand your ground laws, abortion with the only exception being saving the mothers life, and cops should only engage with lethal force if the subject is using lethal force. Those are basically the only times I'd allow murder in society and I see those as necessary to live in civilized society. We can't accept things like capital punishment because we must err on the side of caution. One must stop and ask "What if I'm wrong?". You get to see this with capital punishment. We've killed those who were later proven innocent. However, you don't get to see that with abortion. You'll never truly know whether you just contributed to genocide or not. A reasonable person would use caution in all matters like these.

[Gray-Wisp]

Regarding Update: If I get into power where I own the country I get to genocide degenerates because they're not people. My country my choice.

[jimmy2]

Criminals no but when this life ends i hope God judgeds serval those who support the killing of the unborn child

[Aimée__LJ]

God doesn't care about unborn children sweetie. Bible says life begins at first breath.

[Ninjazzed]

@aimee__ljH

Holy shit, you wrecked him. 👏

[RaeShirley]

@Aimée_LJ Is it fun being that clueless? I mean really? Listen here do some more research, the Bible which I have personally read the majority of, says in Psalms 139:13 that he knit us together in our mothers wind and there are countless other places it mentions his love for the children while they were still in the mothers womb, but one thing I promise you the bible does not say is that life begins at first breath, so nice try, but your wrong.

[Aimée__LJ]

@RaeShirley

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
Gen 2:7

There's the life begging at first breath that you said doesn't exist.
Here's some passages showing god doesn't actually care about unborn children or anyone really.

"Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . ."
Hosea 9:11-16

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”.

1 Samuel 15:3 "utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling..."

Exodus 12:29
At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock. 30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians. And there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where someone was not dead.

[copiecat]

Let's say you are drowing. And you got yank out and no one does CPR. They just let you die. Cuz someone said I want you. How that make u feel?

[copiecat]

Don't*

[copiecat]

I don't want it/you

[Aimée__LJ]

Not a great analogy...

[copiecat]

That's how metoo does rape methods.

[copiecat]

They say if I was wet I still said no. (And of course no MEANS no). But that being said the courts will do what ever to make it truth. And truthfully it's murder.

[Aimée__LJ]

A fetus can't survive outside of the womb so no it's not murder it's a medically induced miscarriage.

[copiecat]

I no means to make you mad. But something happen to me that's not really fucking fare. So I'm all about it now. Jaded

[copiecat]

Terms terms hey I like that.

[copiecat]

I knew a gal that had like seven in a 24 month period. She end up having 3 more and they are healthy.

[Aimée__LJ]

That is highly unlikely...

[copiecat]

Many many times I she felt guilty. Like three in a row one summer.

[copiecat]

Her bff would talk shit about her to me.

[copiecat]

She had one too. She said at the clinic there's many dad's with 14 yr old daughters.

[Aimée__LJ]

Well she should get on better birth control 🙂

[Snakeyes7]

They think it makes people see how immoral it is to kill your own children but I don’t think criminalizing it will do that.

[anylolone]

After the second trimester, for the same reason why you can't use drugs while transfusing your blood.

[msc545]

Abortion is murder, that's what. Murder is a crime.

[Agape93]

And yet abortion is neither murder nor is it a crime lol that’s just objective reality hon. Is it killing? Absolutely. Does it suck? Absolutely. But killing =/= murder.

[msc545]

@Agape93 That is why these are called "opinions' instead of "facts".

[Aimée__LJ]

You are stating your opinion as if it is a fact. Murder is a criminal offense. Abortion is not.

You're not saying "I think terminating a pregnancy is wrong because it's ending a potential life"

[Agape93]

Exactly.

[msc545]

@Aimée__LJ Do you really think the semantics matter? Do you think your ridiculous argument is persuasive? If someone was pulling your legs off and crushing your skull, would you care what it was called?

[Agape93]

Semantics does matter hon. Saying something is a crime when it isn’t a crime makes you look like an idiot.

If someone’s cutting off my head and limbs, and some bystander said I’m being burned alive, then yeah I’d be a bit annoyed that homedude couldn’t get shit correct

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

Their number one reason?

They believe it's murder

[Ninjazzed]

Because they aren’t women.

[Ninjazzed]

If they were, they’d be singing a different tune.

It’s a clump of cells, no matter how you look at it. Anything past the first trimester is “murder” so to speak.

[TheVoid777]

Murderers should be punished.

[Aimée__LJ]

But it's not murder...

[TheVoid777]

The baby can feel pain. That is a human life. You can try to dehumanize the baby by calling it a fetus but murder is what it is.

[Aimée__LJ]

Nope like I said they cannot feel pain until about 24 weeks.

[TheVoid777]

Then you are against abortion up to 24 weeks? Join the pro life movement then.

[Aimée__LJ]

I'm pro choice. Im for abortion whenever. Up to 24 weeks. Past 20 week only really happens when medically necessary.

[TheVoid777]

Keep telling yourself that. Planned Parenthood wants intact babies so they can sell the body parts. That is why they delay the procedure as long as possible.

[Aimée__LJ]

Stats don't lie hun

[TheVoid777]

People do though. People are feeding you the stats they want you to hear. Planned Parenthood is the most evil organization on earth. You know the truth deep down.

[Aimée__LJ]

I don't think an organization providing sexual health care to women and men in need is evil.

[TheVoid777]

Planned Parenthood doesn't care about women. The psychological effect on women after abortion is horrible. You can get all the health care you need in a hospital. Men who want to use women as sex objects are for abortion. They don't care what it does to you.

[Aimée__LJ]

What about the psychological impact of being forced to have a pregnancy. Over 95% of women who have had an abortion don't regret it and still believe it was the right choice 5 years later.

[TheVoid777]

So they say but I see the rage in their eyes and the fury they show defending abortion. They look like they have regret to me.

[Aimée__LJ]

That's not up to you to decide. Why would they lie about it anyway?

[TheVoid777]

It is not up to me to decide but I can observe reality in front of me and that is what I see. They lie because they were lied to and if they admit they were wrong then murder is on your conscience. No one wants to deal with that. They can soften their hearts and just admit they made a mistake and try to move on but few do.

[Aimée__LJ]

How exactly is it murder?

[TheVoid777]

The abortionist crushes the skull and uses tools to rip body parts off the baby. The life was and then was no more.

[Aimée__LJ]

That only happens in late term abortions... Which are mostly wanted pregnancies that end up going wrong. Those are medically necessary abortions... You're trying to criminalize people who experienced immense trauma and loss.

[TheVoid777]

98 percent of abortions are because of inconvenient pregnancy. Not the life of the mother being threatened or rape. The abortionists should be punished and the women given mandatory therapy.

[Aimée__LJ]

Yup and 9/10 abortions are done before 12 weeks.

[TheVoid777]

Not true but I wish you were right because then at least the babies would not feel pain.

[Aimée__LJ]

"The majority of abortions in 2018 took place early in gestation: 92.2% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (6.9%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (1.0%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. "

www.cdc.gov/.../abortion.htm

Very much true.

[TheVoid777]

And you think an organization that illegally sells baby parts is going to report correct numbers to the CDC? They want intact bodies and they will lie to vulnerable women to keep the abortion procedure till late in the pregnancy. They will lie to anyone.

[Aimée__LJ]

Where's the proof dude?

[Aimée__LJ]

Late term abortions aren't intact either.

[TheVoid777]

There are plenty of videos of undercover journalists that caught PP executives talking about the selling of body parts. You believe what you want to but the truth will set you free.

[Aimée__LJ]

Yeah and there's plenty of videos of ghosts doesn't mean they're real... If that were true it would be a massive scandal by now.

[TheVoid777]

Planned Parenthood is being funded by tax payers. Too many politicians are bought off by PP. They have too much power. The guy who recorded PP workers was arrested and no investigation opened. You trust authority and think the government and media tell you the truth. They don't.

[Anonymous]

because it is murder of a human infant

[Aimée__LJ]

An infant is a born baby

[Opinion Owner]

We will have to agree to disagree

[Opinion Owner]

I admit that when a pro-choice women is killed, I don't really care unless it is someone that I know like my hairdresser. Human life is not all equal and people that can kill a baby so easily should be the first ones to be killed by others. I hope to see more of it in the future

[Aimée__LJ]

You care more about the life of a clump of cells than an actually established human being. That's fucked up.

[Opinion Owner]

Most adults are little more than that

[Aimée__LJ]

Little more than what?

[Anonymous]

They're usually insane, religious lunatics.

[Anonymous]

It is a human life.

[Aimée__LJ]

Nothing but a clump of cells at this point. If you saw it in the toilet you'd be like "eh the fuck" and flush it

[Opinion Owner]

I have seen life develop from embryo to birth for sea horses. And can say with certitude that they were alive for the entire process. We are not so different from sea horses that the same thing can't be said for a unborn human. We all start our lives out as a single cell organism. That isn't just a clump of cells you are flushing down the toilet; but an entire organism. I have a degree in Biology; I cannot and I will not deny the science of this.

[Aimée__LJ]

Wasn't denying they were alive sweetie. But yah know parasites are alive but we yeet those out of our bodies real quick.

[Opinion Owner]

Comparing humans to parasites is highly offensive. Also mammalian reproduction isn't a parasitic relationship between offspring and mother. As mammals we invest more into our offspring than any other species.

[Aimée__LJ]

So? Do you really want people raising kids that they didn't want in the first place. You want your 15 year old daughter to have a kid?

[Opinion Owner]

Um, if they were willing to have sex they should be aware that kids is the whole point of sex. If I had a 15 year old daughter I would want her to either raise her child or give it up for adoption. But I would hope that none of my kids are sexually active at 15.

[Aimée__LJ]

What kind of archaic land do you live in. Humans are one of the only species that has sex for fun not just reproduction. So no having a baby is not the only reason for sex.

[Opinion Owner]

The real world. It is nice that we can have sex for fun; but at the end of the day sex is still about reproduction. Plus if you don't want to get pregnant you should probably switch to oral or anal sex. That or hand stuff. There are plenty of ways to enjoy sex that will never result in pregnancy; as well as the several forms of birth control for the one type of sex that does. Yet too many people rely on terminating a pregnancy; instead of trying to prevent it in the first place. A ban on abortions might result in a slight uptick in births at first; however, that will go down as women realize that they have to be more responsible for their own actions.

[Aimée__LJ]

So Infertile people should just not have sex? What a stupid mindset you have. So we should teach kids about sex earlier and have more in depth discussions about it from an earlier age. Give free access to birth control, including condoms.

Abortion bans don't stop abortions.

[Opinion Owner]

Uh, when did I say that?

[Aimée__LJ]

You said kids is the whole point of sex. So people who can't have kids shouldn't be having sex then?

[Opinion Owner]

That is not my conclusion. People who don't want kids shouldn't be having sexual intercourse. Or at least not without proper birth control. People who can't have kids can have as much sex as they want. As being infertile removes the primary purpose of sex for them; leaving them with the secondary and tertiary points of sex. Those points were added by us as a species; only dolphins have done the same thing.

[Aimée__LJ]

Birth control fails. I'll say it again nobody should be forced to go through a pregnancy that they do not want, cannot afford or cannot mentally withstand.

[Opinion Owner]

The birth control pill mimics the hormone released during pregnancy that prevents you from ovulating. Which is why they say it is 99.99% effective; when taken. It is only ineffective for women who still ovulate during pregnancy which is a very rare minority.

[Aimée__LJ]

It also causes a lot of side effects.