Or 90% of abortions are pills that just cause chicks to basically get an extra period.
Could more info about Abortion stop these ridic laws?
Or 90% of abortions are pills that just cause chicks to basically get an extra period.
No. You can't notice that you are pregnant at the 6th week. Many women also have irregular periods.
The embryo/fetus is also dependent on your uterus to survive. If the fetus should have the same rights like everyone, then we should have the right to abort 'cause i dont have the right to use someone's organs against their will to survive. So why should a fetus have more rights than pregnant women. Any so called pro lifer who wants a fetus have more rights than pregnant women should be forced to give their organs to someone in need, otherwise they are hypocritical.
Then the mental health affect the unborn baby. A woman who is forced to to give birth will have mental issues and she would not really care about her health at this point. A woman can even have misscarriage if she eats fastfood. And what about pregnant women with drug and alcohol addiction or pregnant women who smoke? All of these drugs and alcohol will affect the unborn baby in a bad way.
So you extra have to care about your mental health/physical health when being pregnant. Healthy food is also more expensive.
In short i dont believe that these women can give birth to healthy kids. It is important that the kids are healthy because statistically unhealthy kids dont get adopted. The adoption centers are already full and so where tf are the pro lifers? Go fucking adopt them, instead of making them have shitty life without parents. Statistically kids who grow up without parents tend to be criminals and tend to be victims of sex traficking etc. A pro lifer who dont adopt is sadistic and hypocritical since they dont give a fuck what happen to the kid after it is born and they just create a generation of criminals and victims of sex traficking etc.
It is also ridiculous to punish women for aborting. The jails are already full. Rapists, pedophiles etc. are outside but you care about innocent women for having abortion? It is just wasting the enery/time of police. How does it work? Do men also get jailed for not using protection?
Omg forget the no**
ignore my my second post. Sorry
While it is hard to remember today, the modern-day opposition to abortion had its roots not in a moral defense of life but rather in the need for President Richard Nixon to win votes before the 1972 election. Pushing the idea that abortion was a central issue of American life was about rejecting the equal protection of the laws embraced by the Democrats far more than it was ever about using the government to protect fetuses.
Abortion had been a part of American life since its inception, but states began to criminalize abortion in the 1870s. By 1960, an observer estimated that there were between 200,000 and 1.2 million illegal U. S. abortions a year, endangering women, primarily poor ones who could not afford a workaround. To stem this public health crisis, doctors wanted to decriminalize abortion and keep it between a woman and her doctor. In the 1960s, states began to decriminalize abortion on this medical model, and support for abortion rights grew.
But in 1972, Nixon was up for reelection, and he and his people were paranoid that he would lose. His adviser Pat Buchanan was a Goldwater man who wanted to destroy the popular New Deal state that regulated the economy and protected social welfare and civil rights. To that end, he believed Democrats and traditional Republicans must be kept from power and Nixon must win reelection.
Catholics, who opposed abortion and believed that "the right of innocent human beings to life is sacred," tended to vote for Democratic candidates. Buchanan, who was a Catholic himself, urged Nixon to woo Catholic Democrats before the 1972 election over the issue of abortion. In 1970, Nixon had directed U. S. military hospitals to perform abortions regardless of state law; in 1971, using Catholic language, he reversed course to split the Democrats, citing his personal belief "in the sanctity of human life—including the life of the yet unborn.”
Although Nixon and Democratic nominee George McGovern had similar stances on abortion, Nixon and Buchanan defined McGovern as the candidate of "Acid, Amnesty, and Abortion," a radical framing designed to alienate traditionalists.
Traditional Republicans supported an activist government that regulated business and promoted social welfare, but radical right Movement Conservatives wanted to kill the active government. They attacked anyone who supported such a government as immoral. Abortion turned women's rights into murder.
And so this is just that after several decades of right wing disinformation. The original idea was just that: an idea. But in order for it to really root itself into our political culture it needed to latch on to something a little more permanent. And that is spite. Nothing beats good ol' dependable sexual frustration. "Pro-life" became a dogwhistle for "you're not getting laid as much as you want, punish women who are fucking other dudes!" and so it remains to this day..
Ridiculous. I'm pro-life and I guarantee a lack of sex has never been an issue with me. I just had enough common sense to do it responsibly and safely. With the contraceptives available I had no good excuse to end up pregnant when I wasn't ready.
My stance is truly about not making the innocent unborn human life pay for the irresponsibility of a man and woman having unprotected sex knowing it could lead to creating that life. It's that simple. I'm all for people having sex when they want whether it's out of love or just casual. Just do it safely.
Now I don't disagree that abortion has been used as a political tool to win votes. But it's used by both sides. Not just one.
It is only used by "both sides" because republicans started using it. Abortions were noncontroversial before that - everyone understood there were no circumstances under which a person should be allowed to use another person's body for their own survival, without their consent. This even applies after death, as the deceased must have agreed to organ donation before theirnorgans can be used.
But fOr sOMe ReaSON we carve out an exception to this universally noncotroverisal understanding for pregnant women - and pretty much exclusively poor pregnant women, at that. And republicans started it in just another in their long history of attempts to win power without responsibility. Responsibility would have meant strengthening the social safety net so that abortions become unneccissary. But that's just not as satisfying as condemning a whore to a life of squalor for daring to not take your dad's god seriously, amirite..
There is plenty of access to free contraceptives today to where abortion is unnecessary. Even poor people can get them for free. It's why this woman who grew up poor didn't get pregnant. I told my mom I was planning on having sex so we went to a free clinic to get me on the pill. And still I made sure the guy wore a condom. And even if I had a mom that I couldn't talk too I still could get myself on the pill as it didn't require her permission.
So whether it was Republicans that started using abortion as a political tool or not. Today for most pro-lifers it's about not killing another life that's innocent and didn't ask to be conceived largely do to irresponsible sex.
that's what republicans like to say but when there is objection to free contraceptives, when there is objection to a social safety net that would render "abortions of convenience" unneccissary, when there is objection to teaching teenagers anything about sex other than 'don't do it,' it is always >always< a Republican.
In any case, no circumstances changes the fact that everyone has the right to not have their body commandeered to save another life. If you want to push things in that direction it won't be too much longer until rich people will be legally allowed to yank poor people off the street any time they need a new lung or whatever.
Sorry but Republicans are not the only pro-lifers. And to be a republican or someone of an other party doesn't mean you agree or disagree with every policy. I think of myself as more of a libertarian which I will be changing my party to that. I disagree with some republican policies and agree with some liberal policies.
That doesn't change what I said and it being true. More republicans and other pro-lifers don't agree tax payers should pay for abortions that goes against their beliefs. I think most don't mind tax payers paying for contraceptives so they are free and accessible.
But that's my experience with pro-lifers. Their only problem has been being made to pay for something they see as murder.
Not sure what a "ridic" law is, but the question begs a series of more elemental questions:
At EXACTLY what point does the fetus become a human being? What is the exact moment in the gestational process in time? What is the biological and moral difference one second before that moment, and one second after?
That answered, when ought the law authorize the individual to interfere with or end a life that has no committed no action against the first individual? If this is permissible under these circumstances, what is the range of other circumstances in which it morally and logically follows that it is permissible?
What are the moral implications for the culture that permits the individual to interfere with or extinguish another life for the first person's convenience? (That is that the first person's life is not itself threatened with being ended?)
If there are no moral implications, than, on a different scale, ought individual business owners be allowed to segregate lunch counters without the law intervening to forbid it? If not, why is this lesser standard not permissible, but the ending of a life without cause, simply for being what it is, permissible?
Would more information and discussion of these questions alter the abortion debate? If not, than is the debate more about a mere assertion of will and power than moral principle and cultural norms?
Are these not legitimate questions that precede the question that has been asked here?
Well, if you are taking away the life of an unborn child, and you are not sure if it is human, ought not the child be given the benefit of the doubt. If you guess the wrong moment in time when a fetus becomes human - and this is actually not a hard question - you have just killed an innocent and defenseless being in the name of rights.
In other words, you have inverted the purpose of rights. Freedom is the means to the pursuit of virtue, it does not define virtue. (See also Aristotle.) You have placed an ethic of convenience in place of doubt and the innocent take the hindmost.
Bottom line, as Burke said, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do what they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations."
Lastly, as a side note, if a fetus of a human female is left to develop in the womb, will it become a horse? A duck? A chair?
Obviously not. A thing cannot be other than what it is. Thus it must, from the moment of conception be human. As I say, this is not quite - if you stop to think and replace analysis for mere willfulness - as hard as you imagine it to be.
Why don't we know? From the second of conception, will it be anything other than a person. Besides, is that not a rhetorical evasion. We are speaking of a human, not a "person."
The former is a definable biological fact. The latter is a subjective judgment. "Personhood" suggests personality - and by that standard, a human is not a person probably until sometime into their first or second year.
Human, on the other hand, is a scientific, biochemical and cellular definition. One characteristic does not a human make - dogs have ole factory systems. It is the concatenation of those qualities in their totality that define human biology.
That all said, your idea is an interesting one. Because we don't know when it is a human or a personality, we should therefore feel free, in that ignorance, to allow its elimination. Ignorance thereby becoming license.
Are you sure that is a good idea?
I really don't understand with today's contraceptives available how so many women are getting pregnant when they aren't ready. You have birth control, iud's, condoms, plan B. If you want to have sex that's fine. But we all know that can lead to pregnancy. And it really seems unfair to make the life growing inside the woman to pay for their mistakes.
It's not like these women are having sex not knowing they could get pregnant. Abortion is unnecessary unless for medical reasons. It's selfish because it could have been easily prevented.
Maybe if women can't get abortions by the time the fetus has a heartbeat it will force them to be more responsible with not getting pregnant in the first place. Most abortions aren't because of rape, medical issues, or failed contraceptives. Most are because of irresponsible decisions. And that's what a lot of pro-life people have a problem with.
And any of you that have a problem with my opinion on the subject, just remember I'm not the one advocating to kill innocent lives. I advocate to prevent it from happening by making responsible decisions.
Morally pro-life and legally pro-choice.
@PinkMichae DEAR GOD thank you! Someone with common fucking sense on it! Use condoms and or birth control OR simply dont fuck around! Like it's not that hard! Wait till you have some financial stability and be responsible with your life. If you really want sex that badly either grind through college/trade school fast and get out into the workforce, pay off your debts OR at least get a mesh or some shit! Damn!
@NYCQuestions1976 not sure about you, not going to presume your situation. I'm just a Christian and as a Christian I MUST obey my Lord on this. I must never support it for fear of my soul being damned itself. I also feel sick and heartbroken for every abortion. It really killed my view on the world, on women, on idealistic views, dreams, shit like that. I mean that really fucked with my head. Probably because my own mother betrayed me and I internalize that same resentment but to me a mother should always love her children unconditionally and sadly that's just not the case. I want to save those babies. I know the counter arguments. I'm fine with paying more taxes to make sure those kids have a shot at life. Someone asked me if I would adopt the baby if it meant the baby surviving. Begrudgingly I probably would but I'd rather not start sharing that with the world to have to one day take on such a responsibility that should never have been mine to begin with.
@t-8900 I would hope they wouldn't happen, unless it was absolutely necessary. That's why I stated I'm morally pro-life and legally pro-choice.
That is my whole problem with the abortion debate.. Women holler about only them having control over their bodies. That includes 100% correct.
A woman can only get pregnant a few days a month. So she needs to take control of her reproductive system and not get pregnant if she doesn't want a kid.
Problem solved.
@weeee it doesn't ban it. They have about 6 weeks to decide. A rap victim or woman coerced can take plan B to avoid pregnancy. And they know to take a test 3 or 4 weeks in to make sure. As far as failed contraceptive I believe that can be avoided by the woman being on birth control and yhe man wearing a condom. It's unlikely both will fail.
Opinion
28Opinion
It could potentially, but a lot of people won’t care how much factual info you present to them. Parts of our society want to punish women for having sex for pleasure rather than for procreation. That’s what a big part this debate is really about.
@MzAsh
Nobody wants to punish women for having sex for pleasure. Punishing women isn’t part of this issue at all. Yes, perhaps you may find one or even 2 idiots who may cite that as their reasoning. I’m sure you can find 1 or 2 idiots that will endorse anything. 99.99% of people find such reasoning to be absurd.
Anything with a heartbeat of its own is considered alive. Human life is precious. It is unjust to end the lives of a developing fetus because the mother does not want the child.
We all know how a woman gets pregnant. There are a lot of ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies, from pills to injections to condoms and IUD’s. Unwanted pregnancy is avoidable nearly 100% of the time when the proper precautions are taken. Many of those precautions can even be obtained for free at Planned Parenthood and other similar organizations.
We are all accountable for our behavior and decisions. Ending the life of a living fetus due to poor decision making is unacceptable, especially when the method of doing so is barbaric. It is unjust. That’s what the issue is.
I agree that in most cases, preventing unwanted pregnancy is not difficult. The only time it was for me was when Pence shut down my PP clinic and I had to drive to either Indianapolis or Fort Wayne, both an hour away to the nearest clinic unless I wanted to register as a new patient with a whole other clinic.
However, I’m not here to tell anyone else what they should be doing with the fetus they are carrying. I believe the woman is the governing authority and should be able to choose until birth.
@MzAsh
For what it’s worth I don’t support abortion, but do support the other services PP provides, like free birth control. Frankly no matter how many tax dollars go to providing free birth control it’s way cheaper than single moms on welfare and worth it. The key is the individual must be disciplined enough to use and use properly the chosen birth control.
As far as a fetus goes, especially one that has it’s own heart beat…that’s a living human being and ending its life is murder. Women are not God and ought not choose to kill unwanted children. Women loose governing authority over their bodies when that includes murder. When it includes ending a life that is not theirs to end.
The left tried this whole argument of “it’s a fetus, not a baby.” Clearly TX doesn’t agree and got it right.
We have put women in the place of God saying they have the right to kill their unborn baby…and not be tried for murder, yet if I kill a woman and her fetus I can and will be charged with 2 counts of murder.
So which is it? Can’t have 2 laws that contradict. Either it’s a life or it’s not. I say abortion is murder and it ought to be 2 murder charges for killing a pregnant woman. No one can honestly say they are intellectually honest if they support 2 contradicting laws of that nature.
I dont think we need to punish women for doing what they want. But women should expect certain consequences for their actions. No one has the right to demand I respect a promiscuous woman. I am entitled to my views. You can't tell me that I can't consider you a slut or a glorified prostitute. You can't demand a man wife you up "as you are". Listen we all got short comings. I'm working on mine. But maybe don't do certain things if they will be held against you later. When you sleep around just dont expect all of your previous options waiting around for you anymore. It's really that simple. At the end of the day I want to save kids. I am willing to put money down to save them. Don't let another suffer for your own bad decisions, it's really that simple. Don't bed a guy you can't keep.
Of course, you don’t have to respect a promiscuous woman. And she doesn’t have to care or earn your respect. I think it’s appropriate to be mindful of what you want and what it takes to get that. So I would agree that avoiding to bed a guy you can’t keep is good rule of thumb for women into long term relationships. Though, sine women just aren’t into relationships. Some are. Some aren’t when they’re young, and then they change their perception. They’re allowed to do that. Most women have a past with various lovers. And most men do too.
@MzAsh the ratio of sexual partners between them is glaringly different. I mean when she wants a family after and then she asks "where have all the good men gone" well they are going after the newer, FRESHER models that haven't been to orgy parties to put it bluntly. And she can't expect or demand a guy to wife her up. More women are having sex than men and in much, much greater volumes. Why do women lie about body count to men if it's not a big deal? lol c'mon now. Guys find that shit disgusting, just saying. And a lot of guys have more respect for themselves than to be whores. A lot of us were raised better than that and so expect the same of the women we get with. Standards are important to have, especially when you're talking about having kids with this woman.
The truth is that they actually can expect a man to wife them up eventually, because that is what usually happens. Most seem to subscribe to a don’t ask don’t tell policy, which I think is best. Discuss health, of course. But don’t discuss numbers or unnecessary details. Let the past be the past and focus on the now and the future.
@MzAsh let me just say I envy a guy who can actually do that, I really do. Because he's likely going to have a hell of a lot of options in that regard. But for me, it's stomach turning. Maybe I can seek consoling about it, maybe not. The thought does literally turn my stomach. The idea I'm with a woman who had multiple men at once and things like that. And you know for us guys it's shameful as hell too. Not just because it's disgusting for us but because I mean, damn. Your baby mamma is a slut, your son is the son of a whore. Ouch, ouch, it hurts like hell tbh. To have those things said and actually stick. Maybe since you're an influence you can write an article about these things. For me I feel shame at the thought of it, a deep sadness, and a disgust like I'm with those other men in some way for having shared her. It's very complex, it bugs me so much. It's hard to find happiness and satisfaction with a woman in a serious relationship because of this. How is it different than wifing up a woman from the red light district? Serious talk.
I'm morally pro-life and legally pro-choice. Even though they denied an emergency appeal application to the new Texas law, the Supreme Court is never going to overturn Roe Verses Wade. Courts virtually never overturn their own decisions. Have you ever asked a Judge or a panel of Judges to overturn her/his/their own decision? That's the major reason why the Appellate Court system is so overwhelmed in this country, even before the pandemic. In just over 245 years, the Supreme Court itself has only overturned less than 2% of their own decisions, and there's no Appellate Court higher than the Supreme Court. Whether people in this country like it or not, Roe Verses Wade is the law of the land. Also, conservative justices tend to be law traditionalists, and make decisions based on precedent and caselaw, even if they morally disagree with the decision. Roe Verses Wade is precedent and caselaw. So even though the Supreme Court blocked this emergency appeal application (key word: "emergency"), and anything is possible, I would be extraordinarily shocked if this Texas law is upheld in any way after a full application is made to the Court.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/supreme-court-votes-5-4-to-leave-texas-abortion-law-in-place
"The Court voted 5-4 to deny an emergency appeal from abortion providers and others that sought to block enforcement of the law that went into effect Wednesday. The Justices also suggested that their order likely isn't the last word on whether the law can stand because other challenges to it can still be brought."
We all need to read between the lines of the decision and Chief Roberts' statement. The emergency appeal application denial was a procedural decision, and not a merit-based decision.
If you look at countries such as Ireland, where life is pretty much governed by religion you can see just how crazy the situation is.
all that happens without the option of abortion those born to mothers are put in to an overburdened care system.
A care system rife with abuse by those same people against abortion and the needs of the child.
All that will happen is more and more cash will be needed to support the care system, along with an increase in the current levels of abuse.
Being pro-life, I’m honestly more hopeful over these laws and swing to more pro-life sentiments.
It’s always been half and half more or less
But now with the Supreme Court being majority conservative/Republican, who knows.
I’m a guy big on morality and alleviation of suffering, so you’d imagine that pro-choice beliefs aren’t necessarily something I can agree with it.
I wish someone can convince me that pro choice is the more moral thing for all parties, but I don’t think people have such an argument.
Also, I understand, I’m not entitled to anyone’s time to convince me.
Lol, nice baity statement
This is the problem of the argument of abortion
Nope, try again.
Okay, I’ll tell you.
I want alleviation of suffering and little to no loss of life if I can reasonable prevent it.
I don’t feel good voting on something that kills developing human beings, I just don’t feel good about that.
At the same time, if a woman’s life can be extremely adversely affected by this then I can sympathize with that.
Especially if her life is on the line.
Most abortions aren’t that tho
They’re more like “I don’t want this kid, I want to party” type situations.
Oh yeah, it does of course.
Well, I don’t think so.
It’s fine, we can disagree and still be friends.
I understand this is just one of those issues where it’s hard to convince either side.
Eh, zero supernatural.
Hmmm. Not sure I agree
But doesn’t matter, unimportant
Agree to disagree
@EmbraceThePain @OddBeMe Technically and biologically, life *does* begin at conception. Otherwise none of us would be here. It's not magic; it's sperm and egg. Of course, the question is, when is that life *viable*? You can't take a zygote, put it on a couch, and tell it to watch Netflix.
The question is, beyond the moral arguments, where does that legal termination line belong? I'd rather watch cartoons instead of trying to figure it out.
@NYCQuestions1976
“I’d rather watch cartoons instead of trying to figure it out.”
Totally agree lol.
For me, it’s the primary reasons that abortions are carried out ALONGSIDE the moral dilemma of it that make me pro-life.
You’d think abortions are done because of extremely dire circumstances, somethings adjacent to the threat of death to the woman.
No, not even close.
More like “I want to go out to party and don’t want to raise this kid that I got because I wasn’t responsible enough to have safe sex or choose a quality man.”
You see why I’m pro-life now? Two words/reasons
Accountability and morality
@NYCQuestions1976 how does life begin at conception? Transitive property would dictate “sperm + egg = life” means sperm is life and egg is life.
@NYCQuestions1976 so the instant a sperm tail enters an egg there’s some divine spark of life? Yeah right.
@OddBeMe
I think I get what you’re saying, but the word “divine” doesn’t need to be used.
It’s just simply, scientifically…. life.
Yes, it’s not 100% a thinking or contemplating adult male such as myself, you, or @NYCQuestions1976
But it is literally “life.”
@OddBeMe Yes. That's why it's called a "zygote". It wouldn't have or need a different name if it was still just an egg or still just a sperm.
Now like I posted above, it's not like you can put a zygote on a couch and tell it to watch Netflix. So it's about where do you set the goalposts in terms of "viability"... and as I also posted, I'd rather watch cartoons. It's a pointless argument, because at the end of the day, Roe Verses Wade isn't going to be changed or overturned.
@NYCQuestions1976
Yeah, it is pointless.
I don’t think Roe v. Wade will be overturned as well but that won’t stop certain states from creating quite restrictive laws or terms on abortion, especially if these states are more red, conservative, or pro-life states.
I think one of the MAIN issues for me is, how much of my money is being give to fund a woman’s abortion?
I’d be more okay with abortion if people who were against it were assured that their money aren’t going into it to facilitate a woman’s abortion.
@NYCQuestions1976 true, I’m not for forced vaxxed
@OddBeMe
Honestly, if anything, forcing those to be vaccinated makes sense.
Why? Well, because you interact with people in public spaces all the time.
If you never go out then sure I can understand not caring about being vaccinated
But by you not wanting to get vaccinated, you endanger other people, especially if those people are more likely to die when getting infected by the virus such as more elderly folk.
People’s mistrust of the vaccine is not an excuse anymore, since so much data is out on how effective it is, safe it is, etc.
@NYCQuestions1976 I hate fantasy footballers. Worse than patriotic call of duty fuckers. Saving the world from their sofa.
@NYCQuestions1976
Don’t really like football
Be a man, watch rugby, wrestling, or UFC.
@EmbraceThePain I watch some UFC from time to time, and watch wrestling during the Olympics.
Women should have to live with the consequences of their bad decisions. Abortion should only be allowed out of medical necessity not as a means of birth control. If you don't want the kid, pop it out and put it up for adoption but be aware that in my ideal system you'd never be allowed to seek out the child and your child wouldn't be able to seek you out until after turning 21.
This bullshit we've setup in the country propping up women has destroyed us. Women need to suffer for the bad decisions they make that ruin the lives of not just their partners and exes but also the shitty lives the force upon their children when they try to raise them in single mother households thus increasing their likelihood of their child ending up in prison x800%.
Not sure how they are similar oddbeme
its not even the same galaxy of conversation.
Demanding someone give up an organ isn’t even in the same universe as holding someone accountable for having unprotected sex.
We have to live with the consequences of your parents not getting an abortion, that punishment should be extended to future generations.
It's not a question, at all.
If you truly believe what you're saying here, I can honestly say that no body should be allowed to vote.
If you want to make someone pro-life just show them photos of aborted fetuses, fat feminists "shouting their abortion", and that a majority of abortions are being done as a form of contraception rather than using actual contraception. That is why this happens. People are turning against the "pro-abortion" (can you even call them pro-choice anymore? They don't care about the choice on any other topic) crowd for these reasons. The era of R v Wade is coming to an end, albeit slow.
What more info are you referring to?
The basic breakdown is many people believe that its a human being from conception, and they are being murdered.
Your asking them to support murder of a innocent.
I know lots of them think the morning after pill is an abortion, I don't think it is... but it used to only work in the first couple of days to prevent conception.
I do think it would help, if science and scientists could actually determine beyond doubt when life starts and therefore that model can be used as the rule, no abortions after that.
Nope I think the more information we know the more abortion is going to be views as barbarism
This is true, I think the more we find out about human development or we develop more technology to keep the baby alive outside the room less unborn children will be murdered.
I think conservatives and liberals and leftist have 3 different beliefs on when life begins and when abortion is Appropriate.
Conservatives view the child as a separate being from the mothers from conception, the only time most conservatives would agree abortion is warrant would be if it kills the mothers. I don't know if you know Steven crowder. But he does a segment goes to college campuses and talks about issues and has conversations with students on different topic abortion being one of them. He ask one of the girls defending abortion when the young women said the baby/fetus is apart of the mother. So he asks does the mother have 20 finger and toes or if she is carrying a male child does the mother then have a penis? Because they way we view the unborn child is separate from the other
Liberals kind of acknowledge this but ultimately say it’s still the mother choice (this being said most liberals are not for late term abortion and a lot would cut it off at 3 month or 12 weeks).
Leftist are more prone to support abortion up until the point of birth and many abortion doctors will preform abortion up to the point of birth (mainly for the pay check). They also argue the point of viability or convenience to the mother. Which at that point where just talking location. If the mother want to have the child and may regret it, Up to the point of 18 years old in this country the child can’t really fend for its self so why shouldn’t you be allowed to kill the child at 5 or 10 or 15 if it’s all based on viability and convenience.
I think you more look at it from the liberal side of thing rather then the leftist side of things
Not necessarily a least cording to my personal recommendation i would not subject abortion 13 is cutting is close, but preferably abortion is a better option even for women who are purposely getting pregnant just so they could all receive a welfare check from the government.
This is my personal story you don’t have to continue reading.
I was brought to a adoptive parents house had 18 months. Before that I was locked in the car for six hours at 105° weather somehow survived I have no idea how. Because my biological mother knew she was hurting me I was supposed to be taken away at day 1 because of stupid illegal state reasons I spent a year and a half in hell. During that time I was forced to sleep outside with dogs are below 0°C more like 16°F weather. I stop growing one of the reasons why am as tall as I am and I’m short 5’9 was because of growth hormones medically prescribed since I was eight. I was brought to my current parents house at 18 months. When I was five adopt me. But I still had to suffer through horrific visitations and frankly the movie lion King the animated version got me through them. Yet I’m still alive today this is why I’m so against abortion because you can grow up in the most fucked up circumstance and still come out a winner abortion takes out opportunity for one Who may suffer the same fate I have
At least a neglected child has a chance to survive. Abortion you giving up that chance for another humans to have a chance at life. It’s better to be born and die an early death then never been born at all. After birth the mother still has the option of giving the child up for adoption. No one has a right to kill someone regardless if there in or outside the womb. Why is ok to killed someone when there in the mother when it’s wrong to kill someone outside the womb? That just saying it depend on location why should 3-6 inches matter in that case?
Most people who are prolife are religious. There is no reasoning with them
Soooo I expected this to be a woman hahaha
Why are you encouraging women to hurt what they technically were born to do?
Okay I'm going to leave you with what you just said to think about the fact that you compared removing something you naturally are born to have and can survive without, and you were born by the way.
And the fact that you think a woman does not have the opportunity to chose wether she gets pregnant or not. She can chose that. You also want to have sex with women because of her being able to produce because your need to have sex is to produce.
Soooo, a women does not need hence the word NEED a option to abort. It's not a right it's entitlement. No one but someone in deer need with complications should have the option to abortion.
@OddBeMe
With that logic why the hell do people even exist.
We have come a long way to just revert back to losing intelligence.
Everything we do matters and that is just down right wrong for many reasons. You want to act like your rights are more important go ahead but it will never make it right. Women who choose abortion know better they just don't care and neither do you. It's not about your rights it's about being spoiled and entitled by the government. Plain and simple the government does not have to offer anyone anything. This is not a necessity, women want to at like victims the that be their problem not the government's.
So just to wrap up: you think God created women just to breed. And humans have no choice about it. Incidentally after children are born children have 1 in 5 chance to starve to death. So no god there….
Instead I say we shouldn’t believe anything until evidence convinces us. Until, then each person will have the same rights as everyone else. That includes fetuses wanting more rights than other humans.
You a human animal that was born to bread and survive. The fact that you are able to comprehend further into your mind tells you you have enough common sense to understand the functions of life and what it is.
You can not keep ignoring the truth just so it benefits your reality. The fact that you think a child will starve tells you how much less you know about our surroundings in life. The fact that you ignore so many important ques of prevention tells me you are just looking for justification.
You remove rights what do you have a woman and a man. What happens if a woman has intercourse, she may become pregnant. Do you know how much more responsible even our more past animalistic humans were.
These reasons are not enough to justify it is wrong, the fact that you keep on bringing anything into the conversation tells me your just looking at this with more opinion then logic and common sense.
I'm sorry but this just makes me realize you won't understand not comprehend what I am saying to you unless it conveys to your opinion and makes you feel you are in the right mind of things.
There is no point to being honest and blunt to someone who cannot comprehend that they don't need logic to know this is wrong and you don't need religion to prove that either.
Its fine I should have expected this.
Have a good day sir.
Were women just born to give birth?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8 Sure. Appears to be. And all humans catch viruses that we snuff out of our bodies.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
Read the thread I made it pretty clear I don't expect you to have a different observation since your own name states what you think.
I think a lot of times people forget what LIFE is, we just made it what we wanted it to be.
Women give birth, women where born, women birthed you. Women and men create life.
If a woman does not want this, she knows she can have oral sex, if she never wants kids she can remove the part of her that will create children, if we keep ignoring the things that can prevent more life other then killing life. Then we are arrogant and simply selfish, it's not about our rights or bodies. It's about the fact that we lack morals and maturity.
Sex is the initiations of creating life.
If you only bring your opinion and no logic and true debate to a matter without bringing into point what most people do not respect. Hence the illegal everything that most people initiate in their life. Then please don't bother replying. It's a pointless conversation of I'm right your wrong and that is just plain a waste a time.
You call it selfishness, I call it living.
Specially in a overpopulated world the individual responsibility to procreate is meaningless. Most people today have children not because of nature or survival, but because they want them. It's not a need, it's a want.
Anyone who doesn't want kids can trust that there will always be the ones that will want them. So why feel responsibility to have them? If human survival was in jeopardy is one thing. In the conditions we have today we are allowed to be "selfish" and live as we wish.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
Wow, I'm impressed Opinion8, it's been a while since I could talk to someone with a real good point and chance to debate.
Though I do not agree with it being living since many of these women claim to want children. If we needed a controlled environment this would be alarmed to the government that resources are scarce when really it's money.
Women have choices this I will never ignore. You don't have to have a kid then don't. Women hold this power knowing very well that it takes a lot and very little to become pregnant, it's just irresponsible as it is to create life as it is to abort life.
Do you know how a women's body works?
Now it will depend on each persons view of what living is. To some it certainly involves children, to others it doesn't.
About the resources, I assume you talked about it due to overpopulation, the natural resources that the world can provide are limited by the speed they can be renewed. And I heard on the news that the planet natural resources for this year already were used by July. We are heading to a cliff and it will take only a few generations more.
Help me understand, what is so wrong about aborting? Aside from rape, what makes someone abort? Mostly because they don't have the means, emotionally and financially to care for the child. Under these circumstances why would we not stop the pregnancy if we have the option to not bring a child to very low conditions? We are dooming both mother and child.
The mother can have children later when her situation is better. Poverty, adoption, abuse, post traumatic stress, depression a lot can happen if the child is not brought into the world by a willing mother.
In what sense are you asking if I know how a women's body works?
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
Because it is extremely important to the point I am trying to make, all that is reasonable but with the ability to breast feed, the education that we can be providing and is provided all this is very preventable.
I have did a little research and am coming to find that abortion is actually declining. Those who are trying to keep it are trying to make it a option so they could use it for every pregnancy, this is lazy and also ignorant due to these people's lacking in education.
We keep on relying on the government and not using our intelligence. For example, if food is becoming limited why are we not educating others about nutrition and what others actually need so people are prepared to eat in amounts that will allow them to survive. Not just simply throwing out foods that can be donated like they do in churches may they be close to expiration, and giving out food that will not be used.
We do not educate people enough about this stuff.
Women have ovulation days and have periods. They know when they are more fertile then when they are not. Having periods women like to keep track of them so they can avoid pregnancy and so they know when to expect a period. Women are more vulnerable to easily get pregnant after they have the first time.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
The fact that many women are not taking responsibility for this tells you on how they are becoming more reliant on the government and abortions then they are trying to prevent them. Then there is women like me who have irregular periods and have no true knowledge of fertility but we have gynos that can help us prevent pregnancy and educate us on the best option, they also warn us that sex means we will get pregnant may we use these things.
A woman being this aware knows what she is doing. Parents are responsible for teaching their young about these things.
I feel like young males should know about this as much as young girls.
My point is if we continue to encourage this behavior in women this will only slow their ability to be responsible adults and may it be difficult to care for a child there is child credit, there is 9 months for a mother to prepare and make plans, there is many options other then abortion. This was not created to be a whenever you want situation. It was created for that rare occasion and women are taking advantage in a form that will only encourage worse behavior.
This is why I'm so strong on this.
I am not sure I understood all that you wanted to say, but from what I got...
Yes children, boys and girls, should have sexual education in school to teach them the dangers and responsibilities. For sure.
But if someone is irresponsible and gets pregnant. The punishment is a pregnancy, a life turned upside down for many many years and other problems that can come from it. Not mentioning the punishment that we are giving the child that under a non willing mother probably won't have the best life.
That's to big of a punishment.
No one wants to go have an abortion. Is a very agressive procedure and a literal walk of shame to the clinic. No one wants it. I find that punishment enough.
Of course it can't be used as a contraceptive! But like I said no one actually wants to have it so after the first one I don't think they will do the same mistake.
I'm actually one of those girls by the way who wasn't ready, prepared, and my life was turned upside down but I punched through it and did just fine wasn't shy to get support and I didn't mind if I had to do alone. I would never chose abortion not would I ever call it punishment, I chose to have sex I'm not a victim. All the stories I have heard of women chosing baby over abortion are mostly if not always good stories of women pulling through okay with baby.
My life is good by the way.
The fact of the procedure itself should be more reason to stop supporting it.
Immediate Complications
Damage to the womb or cervix
Excessive bleeding
Incomplete abortion, requiring a (additional) surgical abortion procedure
Infection of the uterus or fallopian tubes
Scarring of the inside of the uterus
Sepsis or Septic shock
Uterine perforation
Death
Future Health Risks
Future Pre-term Deliveries
Abortion causes a weakening of the cervix, which increases a woman’s risk of future pre-term deliveries. Two recently-published studies indicate that one induced abortion increases the risk of a subsequent preterm birth by between 25% and 27%. After two or more abortions a woman’s risk of preterm birth increases by between 51% and 62%. 3,4
A 2013 Canadian study found that women who have had abortions are more than twice as likely to have a very early preterm child (26 weeks gestation). The risks were 71% higher at 28 weeks gestation and 45% higher at 32 weeks. 5
Premature births carry serious health risks for the baby. Infants who are born before 37 weeks gestational age have a much lower chance of living to adulthood. 6 Those that do survive have significant risk of serious disabilities, including cerebral palsy, intellectual impairment, psychological development disorders and autism. 7,8,9
The body is not meant to be forced from what is natural to it. The fact that many who don't want kids are willing to go through these procedures over getting tied is redundant.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
Actually no, women don't learn from one time, I wish they did, maybe then pro lifers would not be so hard on pro choice.
Back then I myself was curious of how many women have had. I found a thread on Yahoo and pregnancy page where women shared how many times. They wanted to not feel bad for doing so, do you see why this is a problem.
It's honestly human to think something is not so bad when we assume it does not affect us and our health including our future.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
Most women had 4 to 6 abortions and said if they have to they will do it again.
One had said she had 17, she didn't care it was her body.
These women celebrated thier common agreement of bad choices.
No one said people who have sex are victims. They but if they got pregnant and they didn't want it then chances are they were irresponsible. And punishment for that is the abortion or raising the child.
Yes it is a bad procedure. And that is known. Another reason no one wants to do it. The reports that I heard were all saying they wish they didn't had to do it and felt horrible before. But they just had to do it.
Those women who had over 5 abortions and say they would do more are not the majority. Most have one and that is it.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
And a lot of those same reports had some of those people lying. They just place the act which is pretty scary when I think about it. I think pregnancy can benefit a lot of these irresponsible people, those who do not want the child will likely place the baby for adoption, also baby's are more likely to get adopted over older children due to being able to raise them as ones child.
We can't say they aren't the majority and we can't say they are not. The fact that so many abuse this is an issue, which is probably why some states are getting stricter and acknowledging that these people need to take responsibility of there actions. Just like we don't want others abusing their rights, we don't want others abusing anything because their is always risk behind this through societal views and future choices of our younger generation.
You see the small picture I get what your implying but I see a bigger one that sadly revolves around pride and dependency.
I still believe abortion should be used in emergency situations, I believe that it is a medical right for critical situations. But for the simple matter of punishment or irresponsibility. It's something I can not agree with being right knowing very well that people have better choices. I know a lot of those women regret it and feel the pain of it. Shouldn't we try to prevent that and allow a woman to make a rational decision when she has her baby and chooses to let the baby go to a family or to keep it knowing she will pull through.
@This_Is_My_Opinion8
I can bet you most women would choose to keep there baby if they had them in their arms. Women go through a lot of emotions during pregnancy that derails their rational mind.
I'm very empathic towards chance and life.
To this I can not agree is the best option or even the last one.
So as much as I really enjoyed this conversation and really liked your view points. I'm going to leave it at this.
I am a woman, I have been pregnant, I know the emotions, the sadness, my own sister lost her baby. I can not agree with abortion being that I am a woman. Though I understand your defense I feel in order for any woman or man to understand pregnancy they have to go through it and live through the whole thing. I know some women are cold and those women have even made the bigger choice to surrender their baby knowing it was going to someone who wants a baby. We always have choices we should not just make the best ones for ourselves but for the one person we carry inside us.
I wish you the best in your life. ❤️
I think that most of pro lifers base their opinion in religion and just aren’t at all sympathetic because they believe that premarital sex is a sin and that people should suffer for their choices. A lot of them believe that “life” begins and conception, so there is a fundamental disagreement on what is considered “life”
I think this actually quite wrong
“I think most pro lifers base their opinion in religion.”
Also
“premarital sex is a sin.”
@EmbraceThePain you don’t think that most pro lifers uses religion as a basis for their argument and think premarital sex is a sin?
Well, no.
I think a lot do, sure.
I don’t for example. I know, I’m just one person.
But look at my comment string with the asker and let me know what you think.
@EmbraceThePain you are right, it’s a complicated moral dilemma. I am conflicted about it too which is why ended up having my son even though I was seriously contemplating having an abortion, because I was 19 years old and didn’t know how I would be able to care for an infant let alone nurture and guide this little human into life. I grew up in an extremely conservative Christian family, so all of the examples and explanations that I was ever give on why abortion is wrong was from a a biblical standpoint
Why did you have your son?
You could’ve aborted him
@EmbraceThePain I could have, and I considered it, but at the end of the day it was my choice. I was already at 11 weeks at that point was instantly protective of my u born child and decided I would do what ever I needed to to take care of him. Thankfully I was in a position at that point where I could. But in all fairness that is a complicated question, I’m sure a lot of it was influenced by the way I was raised. I got married 3 months later.
Aren’t you just happy that you have your son? There’s some kindness, sanctity, morality, and pleasantness to you actually having your son? That now, you can raise a good man, you can love him, and he can experience that love?
You can do that.
It can be tough, but there’s meaning and purpose in that.
You’ll be fine.
THIS^ is 100% my pro-life view. This is why I’m pro-life
Not because of religion
Or anything else
Guarantee you 99.9% of all pro-life would agree with me.
I guess we just put life at a fairly high standard
@EmbraceThePain yes I love him. But life has been hard especially as a young mother thankfully I had a good man that stuck with me through it all. I wouldn’t have been able to do it with out him
You 100% could’ve, I’m certain
Of course it is just easier with another person
@EmbraceThePain I’m not so sure, when I said it was difficult, I mean that my postpartum depression was so bad that I was suicidal. With out his support.. I don’t think I would still be here today
Well, if you say so.
I’ve seen people in near impossible circumstances make it.
You always think you can’t, until you can
You just need a little….
“Faith” lmfao
Not in a religious sense,
You know what I mean
@EmbraceThePain lol I know what you mean and I can laugh about it now, but at 20 years old with an infant.. I was doing everything I could to hold it together r
That’s understandable.
The thing is, I do think you made the right decision, but perhaps it will dawn more on you when your son grows older and you truly see what I mean if you don’t really see it now.
Well, there's hundreds of studies that prove vaccines are effective and don't give autism and aren't full of dangerous stuff... And yet, here we are...
Great. If 99% of abortions occur in that time frame why the protest over the Heartbeat Bill which would limit nearly all abortions you state already occur in that time frame anyway? It’s 2 less weeks from when a heart beat can usually be detected. What’s the big issue?
Why is it a problem? We all know how people get pregnant. It’s fairly simple to simply use reliable birth control. All it requires is self discipline to use the birth control selected. Not getting preggers when one doesn’t want to be will eliminate the overwhelming majority of people seeking abortions.
This is what I can’t understand about people who are in favor of abortion. Is it really so hard to expect people to use birth control or live with the consequences of their actions?
The government can regulate murder which abortion is.
At what point in life do human rights take effect.
Don't give me the bullshit about viability.
A one day old baby is not "viable". It cannot survive without sucking on its mothers tit. It needs someone to wipe its shitty ass when needed.
At what point is a human being "viable".
Do tell!!!
How does a one day old survive with out depending others to tend to their needs.
Isn't that the definition "viability"?
That is my point
Typical liberal.
When their pretzel logic fails they turn to childish name calling
But like an unborn baby, young kids cannot take care of themselves independently this they are not viable without some one feeding them
Thus should it be legal to kill them based on lack of viability?
There's only two groups of pro-life: politicians who want to please their voters and emotionally brainwashed people. You will never convince either group with facts and logic. The politicians will never be swayed because they want to make their voters happy. And the voters will never be swayed because they're just emotional people who believe whatever someone tells them.
People who believe in abortions are never going to change their mind. People who don't believe in abortions are never going to change their mind. So there's no use arguing about it all the time.
In most cases, I tend to agree with conservatives. However, unlike many conservatives, I also believe that if you make it you own it. f you whittle a baby out of a stick of firewood that you bought, you own it. That means, you have the right keep it, give it to a little girl, or throw it in the fireplace with the other firewood. By the same standards, if you make a fetus, you own it. Therefore, you can keep it or abort it.
The right will endlessly call the left sjw's for virtue signaling for any social justice but hold firm for the unborn.
They could ban abortion for all I care fuck cis women transgender children are under attack and y’all are worried about killing babies
Well then why doesn’t anyone on the left seem to give a fuck about transgender minors being under attack ever since states started banning minors from transitioning they’ve basically been telling teenagers to go kill themselves I expected this to go to the Supreme Court by now but y’all don’t give a fuck
Do you realize that trying to force a transgender child to go through a puberty that makes them more dysphoric by the day is setting them up for failure and suicide? I don’t think you do because not Biden or nobody has said a word about it instead y’all keep talking about abortion y’all don’t give a fuck about the transgender children y’all just worry about how easy it is for cis women to stop future humans from existing
@OddBeMe It's because Hispanic Democrats in Texas aren't liberals, the majority of Hispanic Americans in Texas are of Mexican descent, and the majority of Mexican Americans in Texas are Catholic and pro-life... even if they happen to lean left on everything else. They probably abstained on purpose, basically voting without voting.
@NYCQuestions1976 That is ironic that POC are quite conservative. Blacks and Latinas could be a valuable voting block for the GOP if they weren’t so devoted to their racist base of support.
@OddBeMe. Racist base? Really? Many liberals are shameless racists and frequently engage in race baiting. Many liberals falsely believe that Caucasians are the bane of society and also falsely believe that many minorities wouldn't be successful or even survive without government intervention and government assistance. Many liberals also chastise and berate any minorities who choose self-reliance and success over falling in line with their liberal indoctrination. Look at what liberals in California are doing to Larry Elder. Meanwhile, almost every part of California with any sort of population has become a shithole, thanks to Gavin Newsom and his political army of socialists and Hollywood idiots.
https://youtu.be/F-VLDfCl5ak
That's from one of the local news outlets in Los Angeles, and there are many more videos like this one. Similar nonsense is taking place in New York City, Chicago, and many other cities across the country that have been run by liberals for years, if not decades. Violent crime everywhere. To no shock or surprise, these stories almost never get covered by the national media. I wonder why? It's so bad, California's population actually went DOWN for the first time in decades. Even Elon Musk left... and last I checked, he's no Republican or conservative. Also, California used to send more money to the Federal government than it received. That changed in 2012. Now they get more than they give to the Federal government. Is that also the fault of Republicans and conservatives?
Hear that sound? That's the microphone hitting the floor. 👍
@NYCQuestions1976 Haha, yes the KKK and neo nazis always vote liberal.
@NYCQuestions1976 you’re not too bright huh? You’re the one who said “ liberals are shameless racists”
@NYCQuestions1976 So you’re looking at cities with the most populations in the country. But if you look at percentages, Red States have higher crime, more welfare, and more abortions ironically.
@NYCQuestions1976 we can compare crime based on stats of “per 100,000”. And cities in red states have more crime, more abortions and take more federal money than cities in blue states.
repustar.com/.../do-red-states-rank-higher-in-violent-crime-rates-than-blue-states
@OddBeMe they're exposing children to their twisted ideology and spreading their mental disease to others. While we are on the cusp of war with China these... well they are weakening our society. I for one plan on leaving the country to raise my kids because i dont want them exposed to that clownish nonsense. Your sexuality is no one else's business, STOP ADVERTISING IT.
@OddBeMe I voted Trump. If I loved him I'd be letting you know like every Trumper. I voted for him because I'm tired of the shit the left is pushing into society. I'm okay with a lot of things the left offers. Advertising your sexual preferences and demanding I refer to you by preferred pronouns that go directly against my religion are the reasons I don't vote for dems. If they learned what the words "fuck off" meant I wouldn't have needed to vote for Trump.
@t-8900 that’s your perogative and why I hate religious people. But the sooner we take the labels and puritanical beliefs about sex and flush them the better for society. Lgbt folks aren’t disturbed. The animal kingdom has the same percentage in each species. It’s by definition, natural.
@OddBeMe there's an upward trend of younger people being LESS accepting of the LGBT community. Want to gander as to why? Probably the same reason so many of you hate religious people. STOP PREACHING YOUR SHIT TO EVERYONE. If gay and trans people stfu, kept their business to themselves, no one would give a damn.
Wait… correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you advocate for vaccine mandates? Also biased poll is biased.