You don't need to listen to men - go talk to "modern, feminist women" who are between 35-55 and see if they are in a successful relationship, and see if they are happy with their lives, especially in the area of relationships.
https://greatergood. berkeley. edu/article/item/is_there_a_happiness_gender_gap
A number of studies have shown that women's happiness has FALLEN since Third Wave Feminism in the 60s, and continues to decline. This despite women being more educated than men and often earning higher salaries than men. This isn't "incels" saying this, it's a study done by UC Berkeley, as pro-feminist an institution as it comes.
Women are trading husbands and children for careers, and while that is fun and exciting in their 20s, most realize by their mid-30s that they are unfulfilled - but by then, it's too late to change course. Men are largely not involved in any of these decisions - women are choosing this path - mostly because of feminist influence from their mothers and from society overall. And it isn't satisfying in the long run. You can find thousands of videos on YouTube of middle-aged women who came to this same conclusion.
The idea that "only beta males and incels" are talking about this is provably false.
Of course, there are exceptions. In any generalization, there will be. But this is the an issue that impacts a large number of women. Note too that "traditional women" report far higher happiness and satisfaction with their lives. Again, that comes from studies from institutions that didn't expect to see that result.
I personally don't care what any of you do - it's not going to affect me any. But before you dismiss what I say, talk to women who are on the other side of the situation - who followed the path of the modern woman, and see how that worked out for them.
In the end, it is outcomes that matter, and like it or not, women's opportunity to choose a life path is largely limited to her late teens and 20s. After that, her options are far more limited. That also cannot be blamed on men.
Why are todays men so "pathetic"? That's an odd question coming from a modern woman your age.
Today's men did not "so recently include" women. Today's men had nothing to do with what happened 70 years ago, and neither did you, so I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the pathetic state of affairs with gender relations today. But you, as a modern woman, have everything to do with it.
I'm going to sum it up for you as succinctly as I can. Women, not men, have changed the rules of dating and gender relations over the last 40 - 50 years. Women essentially have told men how it's going to be and didn't ask our opinion on the matter. And now that the rules are different the game is much less appealing to men, and more and more are opting out entirely. I'm not talking about MGTOW, although that is certainly part of it. I'm referring to the fact that marriage and committed relationships are no longer appealing to many/most men. Women are no longer the prize they once were because they don't offer the same benefits to men in a relationship or marriage now than women of the past. And at the same time they have made marriage and relationships very risky and costly to men, to the point where men are just saying no in record numbers. Women have essentially reduced their value to men to little more than sex, and sex can be easily had outside of marriage and committed relationships, so why the fuck would a man with any brains go through the pain, drama and risk of marriage when he can get the only real benefits without all of that.
This is a problem TODAY'S WOMEN (you) have created for all of us, and that's why today's men are "so pathetic" (aka disgusted and disappointed with modern women and what they have created for all of us).
And by the way, the problem is not our legal system, but rather that vast majority of married women who are more than happy to work that system and take full advantage of the men they divorce (women file the "grand majority" of divorces). Is that what you're going to do to your husband when he discovers you are not sexually compatible and there's nothing he can do to change that, and nothing more you are able to offer him?
I love how all these men are uncomfortable and offended even though you said so many and not all. Looking at the replies is enough to see why and who is pathetic. They (the pathetic men) feel a sense of entitlement to women, are getting mad that they can't get a woman, and see how women are more independent. It's making them worry.
Hopefully soon all men will treat all women as equals, women will treat them the same, and people can actually form healthy relationships, respect each other, and stop acting like it's male against female. Some people are just so hateful for no reason and it's sad.
I’m not modern and I refuse to deal with the average American man. Completely toxic , bitter , and angry all the time at women. Most to all men nowadays don’t want marriage anymore or commitment. Waste of time by the way especially for a woman like me whose not in the dating world and haven’t in a decade. Turned off by men of today.
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The only issues i lay squarely at women's feet, Specifically feminists feet are things that the National Organization For Women (NOW, The largest feminist lobbying group in the US) Do to make things harder for men to get help and the like.. For example, they fought and still fight against men being included in rape statistics, citing men simply cannot be raped. The FBI definition does not include made to penetrate, effectively making it so men cannot be raped. Or refusing to include men in domestic violence statistics, when 1 in 7 men and 1 in 4 women have experienced intimate partner abuse and violence, Meaning its not a gendered issue. Feminists own Duluth model (https://www.theduluthmodel.org/) which is used in 100% of all police departments in the country make it so regardless of who is hurt, who is called, who is the aggressor in DV cases, the man goes to jail and is charged. Reason for this, The domestic violence industry is a multi billion dollar industry, and if they had to admit men are victims too all of that support would have to be split, Because currently there is only support for women.. Or Feminist organizations standing against equal shared parenting between men and women. Every time there is an equal shared parenting bill before governments, Feminists come out in droves to stand against it, My own state is a good example of this.. On the day the vote was supposed to happen, They protested, they came in and gave boo hoo sob stories about how men are bad, and shouldn't be part of the kids lives when divorce happens. and yet single fathers are the highest of all of the suicide rates among males. All we want is equal standing when it comes to Domestic violence, Rape, Sex abuse, and parenting, But feminists stand against all of it. You might not, But you cannot discount my personal lived experiences.
And i blame women for none of this, I blame the feminists that actively fight against us.
First, neither the patriarchal past nor the current percentage of men in elite positions do anything for the vast majority of men who are not in elite positions.
Second, during times of civilizational decline—and the West is showing all the signs of decline despite its technological productivity and its West-centric view of history as a story of eternal progress—the incidence of evolutionarily maladaptive behavior increases in both sexes and it becomes more difficult to form stable relationships. Consider the prevalence of emotional disorders, poor physical health (including rapidly declining testosterone levels in young Western men), extended adolescence, porn/video game/social media addictions, and the ratcheting up of economic pressures (a declining median standard of living, declining job security, the rise of credentialism requiring longer time spent in what are now outrageously expensive colleges), etc. It’s rough out there. As a result, people often have bad experiences with relationships and it is easy to fall into the trap of becoming cynical. When cynical or frustrated, it is easy to blame others or even a whole group instead of making the best of one’s circumstances and trying to improve oneself.
I'm going to blame a third party, actually an invention. The creation and availability of reliable birth control has allowed women to experience a new level of sexual freedom. Women can have sex with multiple partners with little fear of having offspring from these partners. In the past, women had to worry about getting pregnant from any potential sexual contact with a man. This has allowed women to make bad choices and lots of bad choices, resulting in lots of single mothers.
Half of the babies were boys, so these single mothers were teaching these boys to be "nice" to attract the nice girls. But that' is not how the world works, these "nice" boys grow up to be "pathetic men" as @Subarugirl puts it.
These nice boys grow up in a world dominated by women; their mothers, the elementary school teachers are mostly women. These boys are taught to be "nice." But being "nice" does not work in the real world in the courtship of women.
Women need a man who is little rough on the edges, who can physically pick her up and carry her to the bedroom for some rough, (consensual) animalistic sex.
Things are changing and so are men. People wanted guys to speak more often about their feelings with the result that many guys start complaining that times are changing. Because of feminism and other movements societies are changing while some expectations stay the same. Some guys are overwhelmed by the realization that they can't keep on living the way they lived and they can't go back in time so they start blame shifting.
To be fair I had been guilty of that too for some time. It's easier to sit down and say because women are changing and society with all its systems are changing it's a female fault that things aren't working out for me. It's easy and comforting to point that one isn't the one to blame.
Until one day the realization hits in that women aren't your problem but instead you're your own problem.
Many guys nowadays don't have a rolemodel or idea of masculinity they follow. They are probably not settled in their personality and don't know who they are and what they wanna be known for.
In my case my father isn't a role model because he came from a completely different time and age (he's nearly 40 years older than me). In school most of teachers were females with a clear often times contradicting picture of masculinity. So because we guys need more time nowadays to get to know who we are and what we want plus what's expected of us, many of us seem pathetic.
Yes and no. First lets address this "Wouldn't it make more sense to blame them selves..." unlike women we dont think this way. I as a man never put forth this global situation I am in. Therefore its not my fault at all. Nor do i care who particularly put it forth because... here I am and it exists. I focus on how do I win and achieve what I want in spite of how good or bad it is. This is a masculine mind set which i dont think you understand.
"I hear men constantly complain about "modern" women and how they have ruined everything..." the reason is women are generally the prize that men want that motivated us to be great. When the prize no longer exists there is no reason to work for the prize. Get it? Playing video games, smoking pot, and just having porn or casual sex is a pretty easy life. Why is a man going to get up and bust his ass and do difficult things and deny himself certain pleasures for no reward? Makes no sense. Would you work for no paycheck? 😂
That being said parents raise the kids this way. Parents tell their daughters "its ok to have sex" and they turn to sluts. Parents let their sons play video games all day and say "gee maybe he will become a professional video gamer... kids these days."
Coming back around i think its each persons fault for their own actions at the end of the day and that leaves most of the blame on women. Men are just reacting to whats in front of them. When you're in a room full of skanks you're going to get your dick sucked. If you're in a room full of girls waiting for marriage to an exceptional man your going to leave and bust your ass to be a great man and then come back and get your prize. Its that simple.
People complain about everything. I think this question is more of a way for you to vent then to expect an answer, which by the way, can't be answered. Why does anyone complain about anything?
Also I'm not sure what specifically you're upset about. You've stated very vague things. I can't speak to what it's like being a woman in today's social climate, and I certainly don't think things are exactly equal at times either, but nothing is exactly equal. Men aren't perfect and neither are women.
How about finding ways to associate with better people? Also if by men today, you're referring to the sample you get here on this site, you're going to be frustrated.
As a guy I'd like to be none of the things you're referring to, and I suspect there's more like me too. I feel like many men could make the exact opposite complaint to what you're making right now which leads me to this :
WE NEED TO GET ALONG.
Think about what you said and focus your energy around the other percentage of men which are the men that respect a modern woman and depend on her as she should of him. Or you can just be angry about a bunch of assholes that you're giving your attention to.
I honestly couldn't tell you. I disconnected from society a few years ago. Debates such as the men vs women are a good example of why. People of both sides of the debate refuse to see that the problem isn't black and white. There is a lot of grey area and even when they are looking right at it, they refuse to see it. There is also millions of miles of common ground. Yet people refuse to see it. Even when both sides of the debate are standing on it. Both sides of many debates need to stop the right fighting and look past the fingers they are pointing. Because many issues would be fixed if they did.
You literally answered your own question.
Because women today all think like you and try to demonize men over every single thing for no reason. And whenever a man stands up for himself he gets attacked even more.
I am a man and you just called me pathetic after I've been working my whole life to make something of myself. Do you expect me to fold and say "you're right I'm pathetic and men are bad just for being born men" think again my dear.
Men are responsible for "climat change" perhaps but men have also built this world you live in the internet you use to disrespect them they built the phone you are carrying a man made it so is your car your house your street, literally 90% of our world was built by men the other 10% were brilliant women who didn't waste time playing the victim and vilifying others and actually got off their asses and created things.
Look, you're observation is correct. However, it won't do you any favours to speak about it. The reality is, if the man you are speaking to is already pathetic, he's not about to change by you pointing it out. And if the man you are speaking to is not pathetic, he likely won't be able to empathize with what you're saying, so will feel turned off by the whole conversation and believe the problem is with you. I understand that what you're actually saying is that you'd like accountability from men - but the best way to get that is with a bit more sensitivity. Most humans do not respond well to slurs - even if they point to something accurate.
If this question is regarding dating then most of it is women's fault, because women are the gatekeepers of dating and sex, whereas men are the gatekeepers of dating and ultimately marriage. Men are upset and frustrated because in the recent digital sexual market place (social media and dating apps) they are made more and more invisible. And this is understandable as in the early years women have far more sexual value than men. The man who are feeling that way should realize that as men the burden of performance and proof is on them, so no one cares about their feelings until and unless they take action to better themselves. Now the men who realize this and focus on their path and purpose; academics, business, arts, etc. and achieve something later on in life, well the sexual value is inverted and then it's the men who hold more value so can dictate the terms.
It has been like this for hundreds of thousands of years but is most pronounced now thanks to technology.
A very good question, one that unfortunately is hardly ever asked. The "men" who constantly bitch about how degenerate (in their narrow-minded view) modern women are, tend to be pathetic little boys in their late teens and twenties that no girl or woman with any amount of self-respect and intelligence would ever go anywhere near. They are entitled, whiny losers who will never amount to anything because they can't handle females who actually know what they want and are willing to make the effort to get it.
Yeah fam, it's men's fault because the weak and pathetic who fathered us decided to allow women the right to work, vote, own property, and much more. We should go back to the days of oppressing women and forcing them to be loyal house wives. Heck, while we're at it why don't we bring back the laws that allowed men to rape a virgin and force her into marriage? I'd willingly fight a war if it meant I got to take a bride from among the countries surviving women. (Sarcasm)
u because they're not actually men... but a bunch of inadequate mitches who know, do have this internet outlet to keep mitching non-stop and vent their pathetic-ness, as you pointed it out well
and by the way... all this mitching is not so new, and not exclusive to our times and age... even back in the 1600's there was literature that would point out this, specifically... "stubborn man"
I’m not sure you have history right.
Yes, it was majority men back in the day, but that doesn’t mean it was bad for women.
In some respects yes
But guess what? It was bad for men as well.
Women didn’t get drafted to fight WWI & WWII
Patriarchal society benefiting men there huh? Nope
So, keep choosing points in history that you want to prove your point. It’s not right.
The key is, men & women had to work together in society. It was bad for everyone way back when, no matter if you were a man or woman. If you were a woman you had your own unique problems, but if you were a man you also had your own set of unique problems.
Everyone essentially suffered though, depending on how far back you want to go.
Ah yes! It's always men's fault.
I mean... women make up the majority of the US population, but women are like trees and stones, it's in their nature to just have no impact whatsoever in society, they're the ultimate passive entity! It's not like women decide entire elections in which men pay the price for. It's not like men are only in more positions of power because women are reluctant to get off their fat ass and try to get in these positions of power, it's not like grossly incompetent women win offices when they do finally run. It's not like women whine 30x the amount men do while having a higher quality of life. You're right! Your gender is incapable of doing anything wrong under any circumstance, and men are the cause of everything bad in the world, including natural disasters and bad luck.
Each new generation is a little worse than the one before it because we have been too peaceful, for too long. Wars have a way to wield men, and most of what we have been fighting for the last 70 years is not a real war. Not the type you have to conscript for survival.
Men are so weak now, many younger women see lesbian relationships more satisfying, and women tend to hate each other deep down. And many of these younger boys around teenage ages are so pathetic, I don't think we can use the word wimp to describe it. More than 40 percent of men under 30 have never had sex with another person.
Men could take control and drive a very serious masculine energy again. They could put women back into their homes and end women's rights just as fast. But not until we get invaded and our new overlord wills it. I would imagine of they attack soon, it will be relatively easy to conquer the U. S. in a couple of months.
Good question, I'm curious though, there are examples of pathetic from men in the dating game. But from who's perspective? Lame from a woman's point of view or a man's? Because those will be different. Not making any kind of judgment here as to correct or incorrect, factual or otherwise. Just that both are valid viewpoints worthy of equal consideration.
As far the costs of manifest destiny and the I'll conceived notions we're currently attempting to navigate effectively into more sustainable options? We did the best we could with what we had available at the time. We are slow to change and or make corrections. We fear loosing control of the establishment... you would too, so please bear with us. We'll eventually get it.
Men ought to be the leaders and gate keepers of their communities, homes and country, but somewhere down the road in Western civilization men decided to become weak, whiny, effeminate, sexually perverted, getting on all 4's and have women peg them with a toy etc.
Those type of conduct I mentioned above produces weak men in a nation.
Men in Western civilization especially among the youth just don't desire to be masculine nor strong men, all they desire to do is play video games, whine and moan, watch porn and masturbate all day and night long to porn, as a result you get little punks and man childs in their late teens and 20's and 30's too.
I don't know of one woman that has ruined anything except for maybe a dinner and that was probably my fault because I was cooking LOL no anytime anybody blames anybody for anything it's bullshit just like feminist I can go off on that but why would I who cares there's always somebody trying to make a point and that's cool that's good because that's how change comes I do a lot of smart girls and I can't think of anything that I can remember where women get blamed for something I don't know I don't even know what that means and if I heard somebody saying something so stupid I would back the women's play anyway all I can say is when I mess up I will be the first person raise my hand and say fuck yes what I messed up
So we are to be blaimed for giving you women the freedom to completely fuck up your lives and the majority does it all at ones. We have spent thousands of years in balance under your invented patriarchal society. Here is the thing men has been in power but they have taken care of women and children while doing so. When women got power they completely wrecked society, hate everything men does, hate each other and create madness for children. How is this mens fault. Take some fuck responsibility and show that women can actually lead otherwise return to the kitchen and raise the kids. Because that worked, what we have now doesn't.
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