Natural immunity more potent than vaccines? Your take?

[Anonymous]

[DaveJord]

Honestly, every virus no in about all as in 100% will mutate. And every time it does it will be driven with the purpose of survival to do so... so ever mutant will be increasing more and more contagious. At the same time what drive the mutation is that people develop more and more immunity or resistant to the virus... hence the need to mutate for survival.

So as it becomes more contagious, it becomes less lethal... because the virus is driven to survive and not kill it host, and the more lethal it becomes more actively the nature immune system of the the host will fight it.

So in the end I always think its better for the body to become more resilient, and vaccines can really boost immunity... but it never good to be come completely dependent on artificial means of survive so natural immunity is always best.

It is also a logical argue that more effective a vaccine is the quicker and virus will mutate and in its urgency to survive become more lethal... which it may not of done so quickly and rapidly with out the vaccine... so people who survive COVID without being vaxed probably have stronger immunity because the virus is specifically being driven to mutate in order to defeat the vaccine as a means of survival. So people who really on vaccines will be more and more dependent on the evolution of Boosters... and Big Pharma will cash in on it. That's the real science behind it, but you will never Fauci (booooo) talk about that.

[OpenClose]

"natural immunity" isn't a strategy. The point of a vaccine is to help avoid getting the disease, or at least prepping the body beforehand to reduce symptoms.

So it's like saying "why do we have an army if we can defend ourselves at home?"

There's an awful strong attempt to put a shiny bow on an empty box. You're just lazy and trying to repackage it as smart or brave. It isn't some big statement or hidden scientific principle. It's more like telling all the workers who switched to the military effort during WWII that they are "living in fear of something that isn't real." So you sit on the couch and do nothing while your friends go off to war, and act like you're the patriotic one.

It's your right not to join the effort. But don't pretend it's brave. And if any of your friends die in combat, just know you could have helped, but didn't.

Except this isn't going to war. It's getting a little pinprick that doesn't even cost anything.

[DaveJord]

Draw false equivalents is a poor argument. Nobody is saying not to get vaxed. Just saying that in the United States, 878k have died of COVID. 878k out of 329 million... so survivability rate is 99.974% regardless if you vaxed, contracted COVID, both or none at all.

Pharmaceuticals have profited by 100 millions on vaccines, with providing any real evidence that they work, the project profits in the billions after all the rounds of boosters are done... and post Vaccine and lock down over 500k have died compared to only 300k prior.

[Razp_Sorbet]

"The authors of the paper warned, however, against depending on infection as a strategy, given the higher risks to unvaccinated persons who weren’t previously infected of hospitalization, long-term impacts, and death, compared to vaccinated people."

"People who had previously been infected with COVID-19 were better protected against the Delta variant than those who were vaccinated alone, suggesting that natural immunity was a more potent shield than vaccines against that variant, California and New York health officials reported on Wednesday.

Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection, and lowest among those who had never been infected or vaccinated, the study found."

"The analysis did not include information on the severity of initial infection, nor does it account for the full range of illness caused by prior infection.

One important limitation to the study was that it ended before administration of vaccine booster doses was widespread."

[Roxxy99]

That was Delta. From what I’m reading, Omicron is just as effective at evading antibodies from prior infection as it is from vaccination. With the way this virus mutates, I’m not sure how we’ll ever get ahead of it.

[OlderAndWiser]

This new study again hghlights that the "scientists" who have been feeding "information" to the public have been shooting from the hip while acting as if they were passing along the authoritative word on covid-19. If they simply said 'we don't know' that would have been fine but they had to act like hotshpots and, now, no thinking person should accept anything that the government spokespeople say about covid-19.

[DaveJord]

Once again we agree, oh wise one! :-) Like have state above and on ever post I see... 878K are dead in the US due to COVID... out of population of 329 million... so that death rate of.002 (TWO HUNDREDTHS of a percent) of the total population. So regardless of being vaxed or not you have 99.998% of surviving COVID. And people just can't accept that fact, and over look the preceding millennia of the human races survival with nothing but natural immunity.

How did the human race make this far without scientist studies or government official, and the power and influence of BIG PHARMA!!! LOL!!!

[jspl90]

cough polio cough

[OlderAndWiser]

@jspl90 While you are "coughing," perhaps you should do some research. The first polio vaccine trials in the US began in 1935 and the first widespread administration of a polito vaccine began in 1954. Still coughing?

[Rambling010]

I've visited this site over years under different names. You are usually right on target.

[Rambling010]

And thanks for telling the cougher what the hell is actually up. They need it.

[jspl90]

Polio was once one of the most feared diseases in the U. S. In the early 1950s, before polio vaccines were available, polio outbreaks caused more than 15,000 cases of paralysis each year. Following introduction of vaccines—specifically, trivalent inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in 1955 and trivalent oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) in 1963—the number of polio cases fell rapidly to less than 100 in the 1960s and fewer than 10 in the 1970s.

[OlderAndWiser]

@jspl90 Totally non-responsive to my reply.

[jspl90]

so are you saying vaccines had nothing to do with the polio disappearing?

[DaveJord]

@jspl90 The fact is the United States Government has paid out over $40 BILLION in public tax payer funds to Pharmaceuticals... everyone thinks it free because they do not get charged out of pocket. But insurance companies do get charged. Medicare pays $16 - $28 per dose depending on geographic location. It cost Pharmaceuticals roughly $1.10 to $2.85 to produce.

So who do you think these Scientists that product these studies work for?

[OlderAndWiser]

@jspl90 "so are you saying vaccines had nothing to do with the polio disappearing?" When the fuck did I say that? I have decided that you are just one more troll.

[Rambling010]

You didn't say anything like that. Its typical of someone who doesn't understand the difference between covid and polio. And their vaccines. I dont have to get polio boosters every six months that dont work. My polio vaccine works! Unlike the covid vaccine. Which i never got because im healthy. Im not 75.

[EternallyCorrect]

All that a vaccine does is give you a smaller dose of whatever it is that you’re vaccinating against, so that your immune system can create the anti-bodies in order to fight it off the next time you come into contact with it. The exact same thing happens when you catch it and get over it.

Anybody who says that a vaccine is stronger than a natural infection is lying, and has probably been paid to lie, to gullible people who either didn’t listen or didn’t understand their biology teacher in school, or just don’t have any common sense. If they did they wouldn’t automatically take the “experts” at their word. I say they’re lying because the science hasn’t changed, their previous claims were obviously bullshit.

That’s what gets me about those who say “follow the science”. They don’t understand basic science, and they don’t understand that doctors, scientists and experts can be bribed, something which all of the manufacturers of these vaccines have been caught and fined heavily for doing in the past.

The only argument for vaccines would be that it’s better to be vaccinated and to not risk catching the virus itself, that’s all.

[NaultD]

Not supported by science and not even supported by sudo science.

The American Revolution was only possible by variolation a precursor of vaccines. George Washington ordered solders to get cuts in the there arms then rub small pox scabs and puss to immunization the revolutionary army. Before that Chinese elites snorted scabs and puss of small pox to not die from small pox.

On the crudest level variolation was the preferred and the highest survival method dealing with a disease then natural immunity. Vaccines take the same logic as variolation but refined it to be less crude shot. It's variolation without the risk. It's actually bat shit crazy to compare natural immunity to vaccines with all the steps needed to get here.

[joeldalton]

Did they get these small pox immunizations then turn around and have to get another one in 3 weeks, then another one in 6 months, and still get smallpox?

[NaultD]

@joeldalton didn't need too because people got vaccinated (small pox was the first vaccine created) at the 99% participation. At that level of participation it kicks the dick off of the virus, leaving it stranded and ultimately eradicated.

In a perfect world when a new virus is created by the act of god, the world could react by locking down. Keeping as many people safe as possible then develop a vaccine. Once people are vaccinated at 99% in any given area the virus is stranded with no where to go but the pits of hell.

How the covid19 vaccine was developed it was rushed by overlapping the 3 test groups. That shortened the time frame by months while keeps the same amout of hours need to develop the vaccine. The only danger is if anything goes wrong the table gets flipped over and we start over again wasting a lot of money. The thing is money is go to resource to throw at a problem.

There is a reason why small pox, measles, polio are a non issue in modern day is because of vaccines. With 99% participation entire diseases become eradicated.

Then you are going to whine its only killing 1% of people.

It's not acceptable for 34,000,000 people to die from a preventable disaster.

[joeldalton]

@naultd you didn’t need to because those vaccines are effective. These shots are gene therapy. They do not prevent the spread of the disease. Israel is one of the highest boosted countries in the world, and just recorded the highest case rate.

You will never get 99% of the world population vaccinated against covid-19. You will never get 99% of the US vaccinated. It’s time to give up that dream.

[jshm2]

It was only a small study and not peer reviewed or conclusive - so probably bullshit.

Length of immunity remaining (around 5 months in most recent studies) is a better factor to look at. Mainly, as getting one variant of covid doesn't protect against the others. In fact there have even been cases of people getting reinfected despite having the same variant first time round.

If this is true, then there is no such thing as "natural immunity" in relation to covid. You can only mitigate against covid not turning deadly.

[Rambling010]

Yes absolutely. Though you could be banned online for misinformation not too long ago for saying that. Basically if someone says misinformation then that person is mistaken and it's probably the truth. But they don't want you saying it because they believe differently. So they call it misinformation. Popular fascist authoritarian tactic left-wing kind of thing that people do. Misinformation LOL. When I were talking about a truth Commission couple years back I thought why didn't we need one of those two hundred years before this. We never needed one in the past why now? Well it's because people that are no longer able to discern what is true start to talk about things like truth commissions. It's soviet-style thinking. Orwellian

[JayParris]

MRNA vaccines only produce antibodies to the specific proteins they program cells to produce. Once that part of the virus mutates, the vaccine isn't effective. Natural immunity or that gained by inactivated-virus vaccines produce antibodies to several different parts of the virus, so if one protein mutates, the virus still gets attacked at other points.

[JayParris]

Expanding on this idea, its exactly how they produce mutant strains in virology labs - expose the virus to antibodies for one particular protein, and wait for a mutation to occur that allows the new strain to survive.

So if they know how to produce mutated strains this way, and they know that the vaccine only produces antibodies against the spike protein, then why would they push for worldwide administration of it? And why have there been so many mutations in such a short amount of time? There are only 4 strains of common cold coronavirus. There are now 10 strains of covid, most of which appeared after people started getting vaccinated (Sep 2020). And then you have all the medical problems that have been caused by the vaccine itself.

Are our experts really that stupid?

[Precipice]

If you have a basic understanding of biology and even a rudimentary understanding of vaccines, one could have guessed it. Vaccines aren't exactly common sense. Which is why they deserve heavy scrutiny instead of blind trust for a false sense of safety.

[jennifer_bloom]

I wonder if omicron could function as an unwanted vaccine against the delta variant, as I always knew God would solve this problem but had no idea how God would do it. I heard the omicron is just like a regular cold, not even as uncomfortable as a flu.

[TommyMountainFigure]

I don't need to read all of that. I read your question, and I've read several medical journals. My advice to everyone is take the bloody vaccine if you want to live.
Of course, if you are fairly young and healthy you will live, but if you give it to your elderly relatives who also think there's no point in taking it? It's probably a case of having to bury them.

That's my take.

[BillyBalls]

Vaccinated people can be infected and then spread it to old people and others.

Stop with the lie that vaccinated people are not contagious.

[TommyMountainFigure]

@BillyBalls First off. I'm not a liar. Secondly I never said you aren't contagious if you take the vaccine so stop putting words in my mouth.
Now then.. Education time because you sound as if you need some regarding this virus. You are less likely to pass on the virus if you have taken the vaccine, and you are far more likely to live if you catch covid WITH the vaccine than without it. Just ask Meatloaf.. Oh wait, you can't, he died because of his anti Vax beliefs.

[Slingblade1126]

Why would this virus be any different? My theory as to why the CDC completely ignores every study, while refusing to give any contrary study, is that the covid tests are faulty. They know there are millions of people that tested positive and feel secure in not getting vaccinated but never had it. It was a false positive. Very few people get tested for antibodies. They are the most corrupt dishonest people I've seen!

[NamerOfStars]

Well... duh. That's how it's worked for every vaccine in human history. Which do you think would be better training for fighting the US military- fighting them and winning, or fighting them and winning when they all have one hand tied behind their backs?

And that's for ACTUAL vaccines. The Covid prophylactics would be fighting someone else, who doesn't have American knowledge or training, but was given US weapons.

[goaded]

That would be great, if you didn't have to catch the virus in order to protect yourself from... catching the virus.

The best approach is probably to get vaccinated and boosted, and then get exposed to it.

[DaveJord]

I do not disagree on getting vaxed as being a good idea... but I do disagree if you think natural immunity is not just as effective.

We all have a 99.998% of a chance to survive COIVD with or without being vaxed. But if want to be dependent on booster for the rest of you life that perfectly great... just know boosters are a huge revenue stream for BIG PHARMA and lots of money goes into advertising their effectiveness and scientific studies to prove it.. but then again consider who is paying for those studies. So follow the money... and consider the last millennia of the survival of the human race without vaccines.

[goaded]

@DaveJord "We all have a 99.998% of a chance to survive COIVD with or without being vaxed"
No, just no.

That would mean that if every single American caught it, the death toll would be 6,600. It's probably killed that many Americans named Steve.

[DaveJord]

No the death toll is way above 6,600. I at 878,000 / by 329,000,000 = .26% 1 whole percent of 329 million would be 3, 290,000 that is... 1% would equal 3 million 290 thousand dead. .26% of one whole percent is 878,000... so you are way off my man. But you are correct I rounded my numbers you would only really have 99.84% of a chance to survive it vaxed or not.

But yeah you better stick with trusting the scientists...

[goaded]

@DaveJord Ah, a typo! That would be 99.8%, not 99.998% survivability. 100%-0.26% is 99.74%.

The 0.26% number is assuming that every American had caught (or been exposed to) the virus, when only 75 million, or about 25% have. 4x850,000 = 3.4 million.

On the plus side, most of the population is now vaccinated, giving them a much better chance of surviving, but the final death toll is likely to be between 1 and 3 million, I think. The more people get vaccinated, the lower the number will be.

[DaveJord]

How many have been exposed but never tested for it or were A symptomatic? We will never know so all of over reaction and silliness over something that 99% of people have not die of or never had or were already naturally immune or unaffected. But scientific fact is the first version of COVID prior to mutation will always be the least deadly, and infectious... every mutation their after will be more infectious and 50/50 on if it will be more deadly or less deadly... so there is an argument to be made to let the natural process play itself out... because the faster we fight it the more rapidly it will mutate and natural immunity may not have time to keep pace. Which means we become more an more depend on artificial means to develop vaccines.

There as so many versions of the flu that all these vaccinations and flu shots stop people from getting sick. That's a fact. But if we allowed more people to get the normal flu would they have had stronger natural immunities to COVID?

I work in forestry for decades we aggressive attacked forest fires in order to safe the forests. But then without naturally occurring fires being allowed to burn the undergrowth to build up and trees became less resilient to fire... now the fires burn so hot and so devesting that we can no longer effectively fight them... when if the natural process was allowed to run it course we might of saved a lot of these acres of trees and the forests would be healthier and more resistant.

Regardless of if they have been exposed to COVID or not they definitely have not died of it or been hospitalized for it in the last two years... so again how well is natural immunity working, and how good is the vax, and how infectious is COVID it?

All unknown at this time... but we have a millennia of time tested and factual evidence the natural immunity works... and only twos years of constantly changing science on the COVID.

[blueflameleo]

I have Natural and I’m not getting the shot I hear u only live about 3 years after getting the shot so I went and got COVID on purpose from my sister who had it got sick then got better just like the flu no big deal and I have not gotten COVID again I feel great really so I don't know I’m not risking my life on some shot that they made in a few months even the guy that came up with the technology says not to take the freaking shot don’t be sheep people come on

[Someguy1234567]

"I hear u only live about 3 years after getting the shot" ? What is that lmao

[TexasRed95]

I didn't get the vaccine because I got Covid before there was one. And I also got this new omnicron. Compared to all the vaccinated people I know my symptoms weren't as bad as theirs and I got over it a few days sooner. Apparently it is the same thing for my father and a friend of mine.

[lightbulb27]

Makes sense but does not address the issue of people who get really sick lose their life. The counter to that is the risk of taking vaccine for some.


So it should be a persons choice leaning towards taking it imho.

[HighValue]

They have evidence that the covid vaccines are damaging people's immune systems too so in the future they can be more vulnerable to things that they would have normally been able to fight off.

[AdithyaR]

Both have their own benefits.
Natural immunity is like a jack of all trades, decently good at everything while vaccines are specific, highly effective against a specific virus.
So with a mutating virus, you're gonna need both.

[Kingofkings1992]

I still don’t understand what the big deal is with Covid. It’s a mild upper respiratory tract infection, it was never a threat to the majority of people. The blowup behind it is purely about political and financial gain.

[Chthou95]

That's what I've been saying

[OddBeMe]

According to research, it can start equally potent, but both fades after a few months. And natural doesn’t work against variants. So vaccines are still better at decreasing infection spikes that are plaguing us.

[BillyBalls]

The current vaccines are not in effect against Omicron.

[goaded]

@BillyBalls Apart from the 40% reduced chance of infection and 80-95% reduction in hospitalisations.

Two of the three monoclonal antibody treatments, on the other hand, are completely ineffective against Omicron.

[OddBeMe]

@BillyBalls ouch…hurts being wrong.
www.nbcchicago.com/.../

[BillyBalls]

@OddBeMe how about using a current news report?

[OddBeMe]

@BillyBalls you think it changed within weeks? What’s your argument? Fake news or too many hours old?

[BCRanger10]

My take is it's time for us to finally move on from this and stop getting everyone to panic.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

People did that in Pennsylvania US and I read where they died and it didn't work for them so who knows?

[joeldalton]

Welcome to another edition of “things you were called a conspiracy theorist for stating two months ago”. From the department of duh.

[genericname85]

it absolutely is. there is no case of having coid twice after 2 years. but the vaccine just very slightly reduces your risk of having a serious case.

[Deserter]

I was super sick from what I pressume was Covid nearly 2 years ago. I haven't been sick since. Before that I would get sick once a year. It for sure boosted my immune system a few levels.

[Jintendo18]

Yes, but everyone’s afraid of contracting and spreading the real thing, so we’re stuck with relying on vaccines to minimize the impact.

[TsAubreyKate]

Look if you can eat seafood from a gas station or a food truck and put your mouth on a water fountain in a public park and not get sick you’re basically superman

[Someguy1234567]

Natural immunity is more effective, allegedly, though COVID is honestly a fucking joke in the first place. People want to imagine their lives to be more eventful than they actually are.

[UdontNeedtoknow]

Obviously...

by the way these vaccines don't seem to vaccinate...

[ODC2112]

Give me the bibliography note of study, i think that the study they cite is baloney.

[Neko_Nya]

That was pretty obvious from the beginning

[Chthou95]

People forgot about herd immunity because they depended too much on a vaccine. Herd immunity is a thing people

[Twalli]

Natural immunity is more effective, but a lot more people die before it's reached.

[jimmy2]

After getting all the damn waves so far i think i shoukd be

[Nagahime]

It must be since these vaccines are a joke.

[alice55]

Natural immunity is always better I think

[Gwenhwyfar]

I doubt it but I suppose it’s possible

[BillyBalls]

Why do you doubt it?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@BillyBalls I’ve heard lots of respected scientists say the vaccine is more potent than natural immunity

[DaveJord]

@gwenhwyfar so do you think it is better to be come dependent on a vaccine for the rest of your life, and pay for it... or develop natural immunity like people have done from the beginning of time.

Honestly, the survival of the human race for millennia is evidence of the time tested and proven method of natural immunity and no scientist will ever provide you an study or evidence that Natural immunity does not or has not worked.

So when scientist put out these studies... you really have to try to investigate who paid for the study in the first place... because lots of scientist are paid to work for pharmaceutical companies... which means they are literally being paid to prove the effectiveness of the vaccine. And even independent studies are funded by grant money... so who are the donors?

So yes scientific studies are great and I am not saying you should discount them... but the facts are that COVID has killed 878K American out 329 Million people... so less than.002% of the total population. That's just a fact. .002% that's literally two hundredths of a percent... hundredths! So that's literally means if you are vaxed or not... you have 99.998% of a chance to survive COVID.

Think about that... those are the hard numbers and you can do that for yourself without a scientific study. We literally locked down our entire country for a virus we all had a 99.998% of a chance to survive without being vaxed. When the lock down went into effect, we were at 300K dead... around March 2020. in less than year with the lock down and masks and vaccines the death total is at 878K so its doubled in the same time frame despite everything... so do you really need a scientific study to really execute some self determination and independent thought and questions peoples motivations here?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@DaveJord the vaccine is free

[BillyBalls]

The vaccine is NOT FREE!!!

[DaveJord]

@gwenhwyfar you honestly think that they producing the vaccine with zero cost and taking a loss as a business?

You love to gas light people by acting dumb, font you? How sad? 😒

[Gwenhwyfar]

@DaveJord maybe 😊

But it is free. You’re not paying for it. Your tax dollars might be, but they’d be paying for something else if not this. Not like you’d get that money back.

[DaveJord]

@gwenhwyfar I agree that there places where people can get it for free... but someone is paying for it. So do not fool yourself into believing its free. My girlfriend works in healthcare... insurance companies are paying about 100 dollars for people to get tested... for vaccine your insurance company or US Government us billed directly if your not insurance. But one thing is curtain its not free... so don't be naive.

The vaccine costs between $1.20 to $2.80 per vaccine to produce. So far Pfizer/ Moderna have recurved $8.25 BILLION in public support and funding.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@DaveJord yeah but it’s free to you. The insurance company or the government is paying for it.

[DaveJord]

@gwenhwyfar. You pay for insurance. You pay taxes... and all these studies that say vaccines work are being paid for by pharmaceuticals companies.

Come on be real with me here?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@DaveJord I am. It’s still free to you.

[BillyBalls]

I pay for my health insurance.

My insurance paid $40th per shot.

So indirectly I paid for my 2 shots.

The vaccines are not free!!!#

[Gwenhwyfar]

@BillyBalls indirectly doesn’t count. Only counts if it comes out of your walking around and paying bills money for the week. And if you didn’t have insurance the government would pay for your vaccine.

[BillyBalls]

I pay for my health insurance DIRECTLY from my paycheck.

So what the he'll are you babbling about?

[Gwenhwyfar]

@BillyBalls it’s free if you have health insurance. You don’t pay anything extra for it. It’s also free if you don’t have insurance. They REALLY want you to get this.

[DaveJord]

@gwenhwyfar I get you're piont about it being free..
Even though. its really not... you do understand that United States has paid over 40 Billion to Pfizer and Moderna. And Pfizer and Moderna are reporting 220 million in annual profit and project over 2 billion in profit from. COVID vax in the next 5 years.

So these are people who tell are telling you its working, producing, conducting and paying for all studies which say "yep its totally working keep going getting vaxed, boosted, then rebooted, and rereboosted... we are saving lives." And making 100s of millions doing it.

We can't afford universal health care... but thats our tax dollars, 40 billion of it gone.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@DaveJord that’s a relatively small profit (220 million) compared to the total amount spent (40 billion).

Honestly I’ve kinda lost interest in this debate so I’m gonna head off. Have a great day.

[brand84]

Of course natural immunity is better. Just like the chicken pox vaccine is recommended for kids who haven't had chicken pox.

[VikingWarLord]

Research EVENT 201
This whole thing is a HOAX

[Desconhecida]

At this rate, I'd say safer.

[tartaarsaus]

“Your take”


So what?

[BillyBalls]

I want to know the real facts.

[Rambling010]

Then believe the opposite of whatever the left and the "legacy" or mainstream media is saying. In other words believe what fox news is saying. Some find that impossible to believe and know that there's no way that could be true. That's because when 1 source gets it right and the other one is lying, they make it out like the other one is actually the big liar. LOL that's why they don't want you to watch Fox News. Because it's independent thinking. It's not narrative controlled. Media is garbage. Even Fox is somewhat influenced by the Legacy Media or mainstream garbage media propaganda. Which is determined by the left wing. The biggest Liars I've ever read about in history or encountered in real life. And I I've read my entire life. Non-Stop. I mean they fit in there with the Nazis and the Soviets.

[michael1469]

No, because stupidity is never ending.

[fireforeffect]

Yes it has been proven to be so.

[Waldoe]

it is "TRUE"

[msc545]

of course not.