(I'm just gonna copy paste one of my previous opinions on the same question by a different asker) :
I'm pro-choice.. while I believe that abortions should not be used as a form of birth control, if abortion was criminalized, many women will be forced to go to those underground abortion centers or seek some other harmful method that will ruin their (reproductive) health. Abortion can also cause infertility later in life, but at the same time, the mother's mental health during pregnancy affects the baby tremendously.
Also, considering the condition of these foster homes and adoption centers where children and not treated properly and do not experience parental affection, or parents who choose to keep their kids and resent/abuse them, abortion is way better. Some people do not deserve to be parents. Many people struggle to give their kid a good life because they were not financially stable when they got pregnant. Every kid deserves comfort and love.
I'm pro-life for myself. I could never abort my kid under any circumstance, but not all are the same. We never know what others are going through... and I certainly don't want the baby to suffer in life.
I get where you are coming from but people need to stop telling these women that abortion is their only option because it’s not a big hole in what you just said is they’d be forced to no they won’t they choose to because they feel that’s their only option a big part of prolife is showing them alternative routes and yes the foster care system isn’t perfect me and my siblings didn’t have the best childhood in foster care but we are all doing fine now some of us thriving
Actually adoption in the USA is pretty lengthy and lots of burecracy vs overseas--there's a lot of demand for hispanic and caucasian children for adoption. That was a big driver of why adoption from Asian used to be so massive.
@Creampiekarl420 Criminalizing abortion is not going to make any difference. Illegal abortion clinics are going to go up in number, women who do want to abort will go there which will more often than not only cause more damage to their bodies. Abortion is usually performed by a certified medical professional, so it is largely safe. But what about illegal abortion clinics? Failed medical candidates turned doctor wannabes will run the clinics or worse, people who don't know shit about abortions but are trying to make money. Worse, some teenage girls will potentially harm their health by consuming plan B pills, or alcohol or drugs to fake a miscarriage, because they have no medical knowledge whatsoever.
I do not know on what grounds pro-lifers are hell bent on criminalizing abortions. Are they not aware of the consequences? Nothing is going to change.
Are pro-lifers going to raise the baby? No Are they going to help with fiscal matters? No Are they going to carry the baby? No
What about rape victims? What about young women (especially teenagers) who get pregnant? Should they be forced to carry the baby as well? You may argue that those victims who get pregnant are less than 1%, but if abortion is criminalized, even they can't abort their kids.
Pregnancy makes tremendous demands on both the physical and mental health of the mother. If she is not ready to carry a baby, she should not
Also, thank you stating your points and concerns in a civil way.
@Creampiekarl420 That's right.. only some of you, not all
Lack of parental affection will cause attachment issues later in life, especially in romantic relationships. This is not the case for everyone, but mostly, those foster kids go through a ton of shit. I, personally, know some kids who were in foster care. Many kids don't actually get adopted. Bouncing from one home to another will cause anger issues. Many kids once they reach teenage, don't get adopted either.
Actually false. There is a high adoption demand for healthy children in the USA. My younger sister was irresponsible and had an unplanned pregnancy. It was not hard for her to find a family through an family law attorney who wished to adopt the child and compensate her well for her lost wages and medical bills. And that was with a bi racial child. Put bluntly the demand for adoptable babies in the USA is highest for white, then hispanic, then black children.
If bodily autonomy was a thing, then jailing parents for failing to pay child support would not exist. Bodily autonomy is a joke in the USA legal system.
Teenagers can still get families to adopt the children and save their lives. They don't need to pull a Juno and browse newspaper articles, family law attorneys or their parents can do the searching.
Actually i did. I've learned a lot about adoption in my family--my younger sister was adopted, my father was adopted, and my other sister learned a lot from a family law attorney.
We have no problem taking away bodily autonomy for the good of society and forcing child support. Forcing women to act as responsibly as men and carry their children to term and let them be adopted is merely forcing women to act as responsible as men for the good of society.
Just because they have a rough childhood does that mean that’s how their entire life will be prolife does take care of the babies people donate and they have multiple organizations that help pregnant teens and college students stay in school and keep their baby prolife has done way more to solve these problems as opposed to pro-choice just get rid of it attitude
@Creampiekarl420 "The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment stated that unintended pregnancies are associated with birth defects, low birth weight, maternal depression, increased risk of child abuse, lower educational attainment, delayed entry into prenatal care, a high risk of physical violence during pregnancy, and reduced rates of breastfeeding."
If a woman doesn't want to have a kid, she shouldn't have sex. We've been telling men for years if they can't be responsible if a baby happens, don't have sex. It's time for women to man up and be as responsible as men.
The ruling doesn't issue an opinion on abortion merely where law making of such issues must take place. The same state legislator that defines murder and all other such issue.
The issue is the Federal Constitution, not the policy of Abortion which believe it or not will likely remain more or less the same for most of the country in practice.
@wonderbell99 I don't think many foster kids would appreciate you judging their life not worth living. Nor your suggesting someone should have just killed them to end their current and future misery.
In fact that is probably the most awful thing I've heard you say, and i don't think you meant it that way, but it is effectively what were suggesting.
Why don't you let them be born and choose for themselfs whether or not life is worth its relatively easy 1st world challenges.
@creampiekarl420 your bodily autonomy ends where anthers person's body begins. You don't get to kill that person just because a Choice YOU made, forced them into a temporary state of dependency on you.
Nor do you get to judge them sub-human to deny them their right to life. Other people specifically elected state legislators are charged with making that judgement in written law via the law making process not you or any other individual.
@OddBeMe That would be a stupid law because if they’re being forced then it’s not a donation asshole It’s called organ donors because people willingly do it because you can live without some organs and save multiple lives in the process why wouldn’t anyone want to do that? Abortion is murder and only occurs due to the selfishness of one individual who irresponsibly had sex it promotes this hookup culture
@OddBeMe What cream pie says does not matter? There are people that will give these people meaningful lives. Yet you say they should have been scraped out with a coat hanger. I'm not Christian, but us conservatives will do anything to take them in. I guess you lovez yourself some BLM, but you do not like the All Lives Matter mantra. Us rednecks are funny? You're funny.
Your question about should people have to donate organs? That's called freedom. I'm Unmasked, Unvaxxed, Unafraid. I love my guns. No, no one should have to donate organs. My organs are available, if you want to put them on the road side for wildlife to eat, so be it. To be anti gun, and to say you love yourself some coat hanger scraping is rich. We like life. We like freedom. Live and let live, live and let die. Your idea of freedom is fucked. At the very least, if you want abortions? Don't cremate them, or throw it in the dumpster. Scrape it out and let it be eaten. Sick fucks.
@OddBeMe Why can't people just have common sense? How hard is it to not knock someone up? It ain't difficult. Is that not the definition of life? Being knocked up? Seriously.
@OddBeMe I have commonsense sex. Don't want preggerz, you do it right. Oh, but the sensitivity is lost. So it's totally okay because whether you are uncut or not, you like slick willy with no condom feeling. Well, take responsibility. I would not exist. Either would one of my brothers. Maybe one was on purpose. I was not offed. When I heard my girlfriend was "late" on her period once? I was not scared. Why? Common sense sex. There was no way. Turned out, she was late by a day or three. If she was preggo? Then you have the kid.
Let's get your mammy on the line. Let's find out if you are legit. Can we do this? Get your momz on the line? She would say, that cocksukker, doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, but he's living. 100k to bring him up. To totally have a fantastic life. But I could have erased him.
@OddBeMe We can arrange it. Do you feel you aren't legit? I have thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo. The same guns and ammo of which you want to rob me of. I will be your Kevorkian. Technically speaking. Libs should love him. I love him. Death with dignity. Yet we treat our pets better that way. That is one lib thing we can agree on. Death with dignity, without needing terminal diseases.
The price you pay for cream pies. I can equally shove my ak or ar or rifle, or revolver up your pee hole or asshole sideways without firing a shot. But we totally don't have commonsense gun laws. Orangman Rad! #fjb Trump 2024
It's really a fundamental Constitutional issue. The federal Constitution of 1787 was sold as creating a "Government of few and defined" powers of a forign nature.
It doesn't mention abortion or almost any other domestic issue. When the Federal politicians in black robes decided there were unwritten rights which the Federal constitution mandated we respect, they did so at the expense of other rights.
This is an explicit violation of the 9th Amendment which reads: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
Well 50+ million of America's smallest and most innocent citizens have lost their right to life because of that edict. 300+ million Americans have lost their right to decide the extent of their own laws under the constitution.
The Federal court entered into a logically unlimited and arbitrary domain of power to be welded on a case by case basis effectively abolishing the rule of law and with it the security of all other rights. After all if "abortion" is somehow a protected right under the federal constitution why not anything and everything else that is just as much unwritten? Why not running over people with your car, or shooting them because they make you angry in the name of a "right to mental dignity"?
This ruling like many others from the same 1960's & 1970's judges was as divorced from sanity as it was from any written law.
@oddbeme How does the 4th amendment's prohibition on search and seasure relate to the legality of either killing anther person or undertaking a "medical procedure"?
Here I will print the amendment for you: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Nobody is searching you to find or take anything. You are attempting to employ the services of anther person against anther person.
@oddbeme "against unreasonable searches and seizures" nobody is searching them, much less taking anything from them. They are attempting to kill anther person, or engage in a forbidden practice.
The only search or searches and seizures that could take place regardless of reasonably would have to happen after the crime had been committed in investigating the same crime. By which point the tiny baby would unfortunately be already dead, and its the doctor who did the deed.
@OddBeMe thanks tips. You learn that in special ed? Their body isn’t the one we care about. It’s the life inside it. A man who gives his girlfriend a morning after pill can be charged with murder of the 24 hour life in her body, and a female can kill a child at 24 weeks without even talking to the father. The incubator gets to call the shots, and if we could take the embryo out of the female if she wanted it dead and the father didn’t and put it in an artificial womb, these assholes would still say no. Because it is about contol of the fathers rights NOT the fetus.
@ArchaicArachnid The 14th amendment names no rights of Americans, instead implying a form of equal protection. The first federal supreme court to rule on the issue a few years after the amendment was "ratified". (In quotes because this is the most questionable ratification process of any Amendment, given 11 states were under the gun and arguably not then states and many more withdrew 'ratification' when their people threw out the state legislator that did it.) Correctly concluded that such an interpretation of equal protection would render the entire constitution moot, as well as being inconsistent with the interpretation of the then contemporary writers and ratifiers.
This is why when a Future supreme court 50+ years later in the 1920's decided to start selectively "incorporating" the "bill of rights" against the States in a case in New York. In this case the federal court chose to incorporate only the 1st amendment, claiming to have done so under "due process" clause even thou Due process had until then always referred to the process of law, you know legislative, executive, judicial, etc... A process that would continue only selectively for the next 100+ years further illustrating the arbitrariness as well as overturning the prior precedent and understanding of the amendment and said clauses..
Incorporation by contrast has led to the significant weakening of the rights so incorporated as those amendments written broadly for a Goverment of foreign objects having little need for domestic laws were weakened in case after case of Domestic government exceptions. Example the unwritten yelling fire in a theater exception allowed for a wide range of effective censorship deemed conveniently likewise dangerous.
State versions of theses amendments tend to have more comprehensive exceptions handling, as well as being inherently safer on the account of the safety valve voting with our feet.
Abortion can be ruled illegal in every state, depending on the final wording of the ruling. As mentioned, the leaked document is a draft, not the final product. Below is an example of wording that can make abortion illegal in ALL states (I am no attorney so forgive me if I butcher the wording but the point is clear):
"The Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade due to it being both unconstitutional and in direct conflict with the Founding Fathers' belief that ALL citizens have the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Founding Fathers made it abundantly clear that Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness CANNOT be taken away from any man without due process in a court of law. Since a defenseless baby cannot possibly commit a crime, it is deemed a violation of the 8th amendment, which bars cruel and unusual punishment, to take the life of a baby being formed. Life has scientifically been proven to begin at conception. At and anytime after conception, the killing of a baby is murder since the baby could not possibly attack anyone. Therefore, the conclusion of this court is that abortion is a violation of a baby's right to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and is nothing less than murder and states are instructed to include abortion as a form of murder".
@OddBeMe No what's weird? When Biden talks about abortion, and look up his history. He proudly stated he was a weirdo in the Democrat party? Why? Because he indeed is pro life. That's the one potato head that conservatives agree with. He is the grand master original gangster of totally being a puppet. But everything bad about him you dismiss. When do you cum to the dark MAGA energy? Might as well. It's the correct side.
@Exterminatore still not carrying an unwanted fetus for 9 months and push it out of my vagina. Never wanted, never gonna be born sorry. Not sacrificing my mental and physical health for a child i never asked for or wanted.
This decision is absolutely correct, although long overdue. And not because I am against abortion, but simply because the task of the Supreme Court is to defend the constitution, not to defend the policies of the Democratic Party and the Liberals. And because the US Constitution does not mention the word "abortion", Roe's decision is in itself unconstitutional, it was not taken for legal reasons, but for political ones. That is why it must be repealed, and this issue must be decided by elected civil servants, not by unelected judges, who are not, in fact, impartial defenders of the constitution, but liberal activists. The next Supreme Court decision to be overturned is for the 2015 gay marriage - again for the same reasons. The constitution does not enshrine the right to gay marriage, or any marriage at all, so this should be decided only by elected politicians, not by unelected judges who actually act as politicians, but without being elected and accountable before the people for their decisions.
I find it very interesting since this is NOT what the Republican party actually wanted. Basically they are like a dog who finally caught the car and is now very confused. Roe V Wade was useful for the Republicans specifically for the chase as a way to energize and motivate their base. Losing that is bad enough but the results will also cause a massive backlash that could theoretically destroy the party for generations to come.
I would love to be a fly on the wall in the GOP right now as they run around with their heads on fire trying to figure out what to do about this political disaster.
10.7K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.
RVW was always bad law. Nothing in the Constitution supported RVW. There is no expressed or implied right to privacy. However... Overturning RVW is not a death sentence for women or a denial of Constitutional rights. This decision simply and correctly rolls abortion to the states via Amendment 10. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
So women will have to seek abortion to states like California, New York or New Jersey which will not outlaw it.
"So women will have to seek abortion to states like California, New York or New Jersey which will not outlaw it. " Which will: 1. impact poor people who can't afford the journey 2. break the law in their home states (many of these new bills make leaving the state for an abortion illegal), hindering their freedom of movement. Just women's, though.
We’ll see what happens in the future, but being pro-life myself I do support this general movement towards more pro-life policies and sentiment. Now, is there some balance that perhaps needs to be reached? Yeah, perhaps. I’m not sure how this would look like though, especially for those who are pro-life as a lot of supporters do not want to budge at all when it comes to the killing of a living being. To many of them this is a deeply moral, ethical, and principle-based issue that they are very passionate in.
Good roe needed to be over turned the constitution says nothing about people having the right to an abortion, As a constitutional originalist I interpret the constitution and it’s amendments as it was written during the time it was written not 1973 interpretation not 2022 interpretation the year the amendment or constitution was written, so if an amendment (like the 14th which is the one the left likes to say enshrined the right to abortion in the constitution.) it was written is 1868 which means we should interpret the 14th amendment hours it was written in 1868 words people wanted it to mean in 1973.
Now abortion will still be legal in this country it’s not like California or New York is going to stop having abortions it just means that each state will have its own laws on abortion which is they way it should be and not a centralized federal government calling the shots about abortion
@EnglishEuropean yes the constitution doesn’t give you a right to drive a car, we invented cars and when they became a nuisance And people were getting killed that’s when we started making law saying you need a driver’s license and insurance. If you want to make a law saying abortion is the law of the land that’s for congress to decide or your state (Since neither side has enough to fully legalize abortion federally or fully criminalize abortion) The fact of the matter is Roe V wade was a garbage legislation all states after the 14th amendment was passed had abortion illegal only 20 states had abortion legal by the time SCOTUS ruled on it. So states have the right to protect abortion if they see fit and states have the right to make abortion illegal if they see fit this is the point of the 10th amendment actually “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” it’s really that simple Texas will make abortion full illegal and California will make abortion legal, this is known as federalism. The only hope for the country is federalism if we continue down this centralized federal government path we will have a Civil War because we can’t agree on basic morality. Or really even definitions of basic words or basic realities like a man can’t be a woman and there is no such thing as a female penis
I actually have a very mindset on abortion than most people. Although I’m pro life I’m also very pro birth control. In general I don’t like state sponsored programs but I actually am 100% supportive of sponsored birth control programs for everything up to plan B. It prevents bigger problems from happening.
I also think there needs to be more aggressive research on more effective contraceptives. While it’s true that no contraceptive is 100% effective they are getting close. I remember my ex girlfriend had gotten a new contraceptive where she was given an injection in her arm and it was literally 99.99% effective.
Abortion however is NOT birth control. We are talking about a human life now. I feel like people want a license to be irresponsible and reckless and not own up to their mistakes.
But seriously why can’t people focus on BIRTH CONTROL. Its exponentially cheaper and less painful than getting an abortion anyway.
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Anonymous
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it's a moral step in the right direction. if a few die in attempts with coat hangers they had it coming anyways. Seriously if you're gonna kill your own kids you're already a worthless pos if we're being honest here. Better that then another chance to do it all over again. Justice can be served in such cases. Those that live and are caught should get a hefty prison sentence and barred from certain privileges. Abortion is violent and so they should be labeled as violent offenders. And ofc any doctors or others doing these procedures underground should be tried for murder and they should either face life in prison or the death penalty.
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Anonymous
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+1 y
It is what it is. Nothing changes at all in many states and some states will bring in various restrictions, but the people of those states are voting for the restrictions. Nationally, if there's enough support Congress can always pass a federal law that makes abortion legal everywhere. So if there really is all this support for Roe, that'll happen.
Otherwise people in states that make it illegal will need to get somewhere where it's legal. Seriously inconvenient, but I'm sure there'll be no shortage of charities to help them.
Abortion law is unlikely to be black & white in any state. Like the related issue of the murder of the born there are exceptions and circumstances that are permitted.
Abortion is a drug addiction for American (and only American) women. They got a little dose of it and are now so hooked that even trying to ween them off a little bit they lash out at you as if you're trying to kill them. Nothing else is more sacred than keeping it in their possession. They'd give up food and starve if it meant getting their dose.
@front2back For the men as well. Who do you think benefits most from abortion? Isn't it great having a whole culture of females who aren't afraid of letting you have sex with them? And you won't ever have to pay child support? Unless their minds are infected by one of those evil anti-choice sidewalk counselors. (Sarcasm, of course.) (Also, not directed towards you personally. I know you're one of the good ones.)
@Jamie05rhs such are the consequences of the sexual revolution. The masses wanted a "sexually open" society free of established marriage and the chickens have now come home to roost. The entire sexual "economy" now is women and men sleeping around with careless disregard of the consequences whether it be emotional insecurity, disease, and especially pregnancy. Women are easily paired with predatory men who date shortly or just hook up and leave them with a baby, while women who want a good man can only find sex addicts instead.
Humans require order and rules to live in peace. We are in a time of chaos and delinquency instead.
I feel both sides are taking it too far! Yes, women should have the right to have an abortion BUT NOT past a certain point unless medically necessary. Having a partial birth so you can dissect it into pieces while still alive is murder! And both the mother and doctor should be charged with first degree premeditated MURDER!
Again, I fully support women's rights for very short-term abortions. At the same time I feel the morning after pill should be in no way considered a type of contraceptive. And other than for medical reasons where a doctor has said the baby is not viable or the mothers life is in danger. Late term abortions should never be allowed!
I feel more and more that the younger generations are losing the values of life, marriage and sex. ALL of these are extremely important and need to be taken very seriously! People killing each other over the simplest things. People having open marriages and having divorces just because they are tired of each other. And the term "body count" for how many people they have fucked like its a game really hits me! Society is in a free fall in my opinion!
@josephinelcajon We live in a post 1960's feel good culture, where a lot of people assume because something feels good it is good. Marriage has collapsed because it has already been by the leaders of our culture in media redefined out of existence.
Most people today think love is some feeling know as infatuation, and that marriage is somehow an expression of that feeling. The result is their idea of "marriage" is basically a pointless temporary emotion and their implementation is not surprisingly much more permanent.
Indeed the legal institutions surrounding "Marriage" are quite unnecessary and undesirable if marriage really is defined as they are defining it. So of course they collapse with no fault divorce and are broken down with any defining restriction related to any other propose.
Regretfully we will actually have to reintroduce Marriage into our culture, and do so with very explicit terms they can't redefine. Marriage use to have a propose of children and long term security.
@monorprise You want to go back to the days when women couldn't have their own bank accounts? Have you read The Handmaid's Tale? That's literally one of the first things they did.
Nothings gonna happen, it's all orchestrated. Get the leftists and blacks to scream and go apeshit, rile fagtifa to do some stuff on midterms and the milquetoast to vote overwhelmingly democrat, it's not gonna happen and if it does, it's with something nefarious to replace it I'm betting.
Go right ahead and kill the Zionist puppets, you'd be doing me as well as many White people a favor. Those Jew-loving (((conservatives))) you're buttmad at aren't on my side.
You lost Christianity already and replaced it with Saccharine yet things are still not going your way, maybe your kind are the problem for once. Free love and all that shit is fake, your subculture will never ever beat real, national, racial or religious, culture in relevancy, even you know this.
Silly joke aside. Hypothetically if the human race was facing extinction would you really oppose such measures to save it? Or should humans just cease to exist on the account of some printable?
@monorprise Uhm. . . nope. And it is a silly hypothetical. The human race is under threat right now from any number of events. Nuclear war, meteor impact, etc. And no one cares.
They would only care if they felt extinction was imminent.
I support the end of Roe v Wade. The decision was self-evidently wrong in law to the point of absurdity. Because of that decision, 60 million babies were murdered in the womb. The evil of the left, who scream and rant in support of murdering tens of millions of babies, is beyond the comprehension of decent people.
This decision is no where near finalized yet. The arguments in the leaked document are very weak (tradition is not grounds for overturning case law if it were vote for women and minorities are also subject to challenge, as are many other changes over the last 250 years) this traditional approach is a very slippery slope and I don't see it surviving an actual legal argument. I think it was probably more about judging people's reactions then actual case law.
@Guardian45 That only makes the analogy more real. Thou your labor you could save the life of the man or woman you injured. Thou your neglect or in this case choice to walk away you can end that life and avoid the burden of acting.
The law holds everyone responsible for the choices and risk we take. Why would it not hold a woman just as responsible to for hers?
This is a question Americans should have the right to answer in their state Governments, just as they have done so on the issue of the hypothetical accident.
@Vendela neither is it the child's. So perhaps you think 2 wrongs make a right?
Theses are issues that should be decided via the law making processes of state legislators not courts. After all one day technology will make it possible to not make the child pay for anther man's crime.
@monorprise or ya know, without technology we could still make it possible. All it takes is someone not fucked up in the head making the rules around here 👍🏻
Except for the family name your Canasian friends are ill- informed. One was a great intellectual thinker & philosopher. The Other is a Hello pin-up moron.
@Still-alive As we just discussed a man injured by you on the side of the road may not survive without intervention either. In both cases their conditions was brought about by the risk assumed by anther party. The same party who is being asked to take responsibility for said risk.
@Guardian45 Not being Canadian i am no more Equip to debate this issue than you are the legal, historic, cultural, and moral implications of Roe v. Wade. Thank you for your opinion nonetheless.
@Still-alive If it was only for rape... Oh but then you'd probably get in a tizzy over not getting to ride the cock carousel haphazardly instead of just responsibly keeping it in your pants or at least doing it safely, why must Roe v Wade impact rape? What's to say rape cases won't allow Abortion as a special, needed, call on the woman's behalf? Rape is disgusting, fucking like pigs is disgusting, there's a middle ground to handle both.
Make it proven via DNA testing or without reasonable doubt, that works too. Many forget we still have DNA testing technology to track down criminals and study foreign dna on victims.
For those of you saying rape is a legit reason for an abortion, the stats do vary, but roughly only 1% of abortions are due to rape.
There is a thing called the “morning after pill.”
There are also things called orphanages.
For those of you who think rape is a justified cause for abortion I ask one question. If you were the fetus who was the product of rape would you agree to abortion for such a reason? Would you say that it’s justified for a doctor to use sheep sheers to dismember your limbs in the womb? Would you say it’s justified for a doctor to burn you with chemicals in the womb to eliminate you? Should you have scissors inserted into the base of your skull and your brain be sucked out? Because you are the product of a rape? Would you sign your own death warrant willingly for such a cause?
None of you who hold this view should object. You should all willingly support your own demise in such a situation for the sake of intellectual honesty. Or do you think all the other fetus who are products of rape should be killed but only you should be spared?
So is it right to destroy a fetus when that fetus is the product of rape? Is it the fault of the fetus it exists, and should it be killed as a result for the sake of connivence?
All I want to know is, if you were the fetus that was the product of rape, would you still say it’s ok for the mother to abort you? Is the fetus guilty of anything? If someone steals my car, can I steal my neighbors to make up for my loss? Do you see the point? The fetus is not responsible for the rape, why should it be killed? Because it’s an inconvenience to the mother? Is that where we’re at now? Saying infanticide is ok?
Do you have no care about babies in the womb?
Why do we have laws that state if someone kills a woman’s fetus against the mothers wishes that person can be tried for manslaughter or attempted murder, however if the mother wants the fetus dead, no charge there. We just call that an abortion and say it’s no crime. Which is it then? Is the fetus a baby or just a clump or cells? We can’t have 2 standards. Women are not a judge, nor jury, nor executioner nor God that they should choose who lives and dies. One standard. Either people should not be charged and tried in those circumstances because it’s just a clump of cells or it’s not and it’s a human and it’s murder. Likewise if it’s murder when the mother doesn’t want the fetus dead, then it’s murder when she does too. The issue isn’t about the mother, it’s about the fetus. This is not a woman’s rights issue, it’s about the rights of the unborn, who do in fact feel pain after a certain stage of development.
Can’t have it where it’s about a woman’s right. No one gets to choose who lives and dies in such circumstances.
@Exterminatore so I just skimmed through everything you wrote, and yeah I still think it's bullshit. Stop asking if I was the fetus would I be okay with that. A fetus doesn't have a conscious mind hun.
So if you get pregnant, whose fault is that? God’s? It was an immaculate conception?
Oh I get it. If your birth control fails you are not responsible.
Do you typically take no responsibility for your actions and roles in things?
“Birth control failed.. I was an innocent bystander I tell you, I had no role in this at all so I should be allowed to have doctors garden shears to cut the limbs off the fetus in me and suck the remains out of my womb with a vacuum cleaner…or kill it with chemicals.”
You seem to think of the birth control fails that eliminates all personal responsibility for you.
Does not the various methods an abortion is preformed in seem barbaric to you and therefore likely wrong? Are you able to look at that and comprehend the concept? Do you think maybe we’re doing something we shouldn’t be doing based on how those procedures are formed.
Of course you don’t want me to ask that. It shows you can’t answer and destroys your point. You wouldn’t want that done to you would you? You are however more than willing to do it to your own child in the womb and condone others doing it also. You are conscious and capable of reason. I don’t care if the fetus is likewise capable or not.
@Exterminatore you seriously think an unborn fetus (that can't survive without it's host, the mother) is more important than a living woman? Yeah ok bud.
@Still-alive Dude, stop listening to the left bent media, that you totally 110% don't listen to. Because you totally aren't influenced by it. Fucking Christ almighty.
You still never replied to my questions, rhetorical or otherwise.
You want to debate things that have nothing to do with this because you must believe I’m stupid enough to to see how you literally have no valid point and are injecting things into this conversation that do not refute my point.
The fetus can’t survive without the mother, it’s host. So what? That has nothing to do with this. I’m not discussing whether or not the fetus can live without its mother as it’s irreverent to my point. My point is murdering a fetus that is the result of rape and literally had nothing to do with its own conception is not fair or just or morally right. How is it right to say: “this horrible thing happened to me so I have to kill you to make it better.” Perhaps abortion may be justified a day or hours after a rape with a morning after pill when the cells are dividing, but certainly not when a heart beat is detectable or little arms or hands or feet are observable. A lump of cells doesn’t have hands, or arms or legs.
Please tell me how murdering a fetus will make everything better for a woman who has been raped and also tell me how murdering that developing infant is just because giving birth to it will be an inconvenience.
@Still-alive Most of us conservatives aren't weirdos. Never did Trump say you shouldn't be allowed abortions for the sake of the Mother dying, rape, incest, etc...
@Vendela and there you have it. its all about controlling women. using them as child bearing objects. screw all this bologna about the sanctity of life or whatever they really don't give a shit about that in the end.
@Vendela You're willing to sacrifice a baby who hasn't even experienced any sort of life whatsoever to save someone who had unprotected sex willingly and outright fcked up doing so. I see a life that hasn't even gotten a chance to start or experience anything while the mother has had every chance to live better beyond her means in a 1st world country. It's a better send off to someone than letting them live alone in a dingy smelly house as a used up, wine-drinking, old cat lady.
@Zealconsumesme yes it is always right to want to save another human beings life even if they fucked up in life and aren't pedophiles or rapists or murderers...
@Still-alive Great, so you and me agree on saving the baby. End of discussion, the baby didn't even have a chance to form anything about themselves so others can mess around and ruin their lives.
@Vendela You're willing to sacrifice a baby who hasn't even experienced any sort of life whatsoever to save someone who had unprotected sex willingly and outright fcked up doing so. I see a life that hasn't even gotten a chance to start or experience anything while the mother has had every chance to live better beyond her means in a 1st world country. It's a better send off to someone than letting them live alone in a dingy smelly house as a used up, wine-drinking, old cat lady.
Stop running from this, babies have more than a right to live as opposed to someone whos already seen it all
@Zealconsumesme except when they are born republicans don't give a fuck about you and if you happen to e born in a poor shithole area then your life is fucked badly...
stop this posturing already buddy you don't give a shit about babies at all.
@Still-alive I give more a shit about babies than you though since you'd rather sacrifice them for God knows reasons; Maybe supporting abortion makes it easy for you to hook with some pssy, maybe you hate yourself enough and wish you weren't born like most Antinatalists, or you're still chasing pleasure to the end not doing anything else meaningful in your life
@Still-alive Oh noooo dos ebil Republicans, if it's not obvious I'm a full-on National Socialist, I don't give a damn about George Carlin, that prick's dead and his opinions with him. I don't subscribe to your hedonistic ways of thinking, give up acting like everything's okay when your way of thoughts already been given enough leeway to exist and nothing's changed. Hard times are coming and your ideas are going away with those times.
@Zealconsumesme I care because i want to let women choose what they want to do with their own bodies... i guess you're slow to catch onto that huh?
yeah we know we know you'd sooner drag all of us into internment camps and gas chambers than actually let women live their lives without men trying to control them...
@Still-alive I'd rather judge you by your actions behind the doors than behind your words, like I've said, hard times are coming and you'd rather die on the hill of muh women's post-birth deaths than consider many women died to birth people that did great things throughout history, why does it stop now if it's proven to work? Women were liberated from basic-bitch conservatism in the 70s just to have unprotected sex with 10 Black guys, animals, abusers all the same and then end up as your responsibility to then take care of and guide; Women know no hardship and offer nothing else beyond their bodies, they sell their ideas with wanton sex
@Exterminatore Their genitals are a clump of cells too, maybe some genital mutilation would stop all these unwanted births and fatal births from happening by their logic, their stupid and their family trees die with thier stupidity.
@Still-alive I said exactly what happened during women's lib, they freed themselves from husbands who'd give them a future, just to have wanton sex and slave themselves to jobs that don't care about them in the slightest beyond taking care of their money needs, women got more of the short end of the stick than they think. As for that hill you want to die on, if you're really down for protecting your girl from unwanted children put your money in your mouth and go get a vasectomy.
@guardian45 Roe v. wade is a judicial edict. The very specific policy the court made up out of thin air is in fact only part of the problem.
For the American system of government there is a far more fundamental and serous problem with what they did in this case, and that is the fact that the Federal Supreme court, did in fact make up a very specific set of rules out of thin air to be imposed in a case of law.
Their "trimester system" isn't written in any law passed by any legislator or ratified by the people. It was invented out of whole cloth on a case by case basis just like the rest of the edict imposing a very specific policy on all the people and their states. Agree or disagree with that policy this is the act of an oligarch not a judge. The fact that the same policy has led to the deaths of 50+ million of our most innocents has justly enraged half the country.
Theses were not 50 million Canadians who were murdered, these were our countrymen, our most tiny and helpless countrymen! I don't think a Canadian can understand that.
@Still-alive I'm not Christian nor do I celebrate coomers who brag about banging women either, shit is completely disgusting when that's all the headlines your life is centered around.
And hey, I still got more a fighting chance than you Mister 38, going on to be 40 soon, losing all your testosterone, being a single cat guy with man boobs. Might not even need a vasectomy, you'll probably lose your ability to have kids by the time you even do get with a nice woman who takes a sorry set like you with her.
He’s not slow to catch on, you are. You don’t care about women’s bodies. If you did you wouldn’t be advocating that they have the legal right to put chemicals that kill fetus’ in their womb or having a doctor use scissors to cut limb from limb in the womb. Think that has no mental or emotional impact on the mother? Is it natural to put chemicals in a woman’s womb to kill a fetus? If you cared about women you wouldn’t be advocating for this.
Not only do you not care about women, you also don’t care about the unborn. It has hands. Feet. Fingers. Toes. A mouth. To you that’s just a clump of cells. That demonstrates a serious lack of reasoning ability. Amoeba, bacteria, lymphocytes…. those are just cells, not something that has tiny human body parts that are visible.
I also love how you tried to say this is about controlling women. You are literally advocating for this:
You call that good. That tells me you’re a moral degenerate whose so far gone you can’t tell right from wrong because you want me to believe you supporting that is about caring for women. Why not he honest with yourself and everyone else. It’s about you not wanting accountability for poor decisions and you wanting women to be able to be free of their piss poor decisions too. It’s not about controlling anyone it’s about right and wrong.
They’re all a bunch of spiritually dead sinners. I’d expect little else from them. Save the whales…. kill the fetus. That’s their motto. They place more value on whales life than a human fetus.
Then call this a woman’s right. Women are God now. They get to sit on God’s throne and say who lives and dies. It’s their right after all.
I’d expect no different conclusions from the same people who think inverting your penis makes you a woman. Their consciences don’t function correctly and their reasoning is diluted. Can’t even expect them to come to the correct conclusion about such a matter.
@Exterminatore I'd save all those words and call them desperate for validation and a sense of belonging knowing they live alien lives completely different to their biological nature; A Mannequin man in denial.
@Still-alive I dont know a single Republican in favor of taking away contraception, including the likes of Ben Shapiro. Only the far, far, far fringe support that. Hell I dont support that and I'm a pro lifer myself. I'd say those same people would number in the same digits as the Klan. Not many tbh. As a pro lifer I would see no good outcome (at least from what i see of people) if contraceptives were band. That's nightmarish and I draw the line at abortion. I'm neutral on rape babies but at the same time I feel that it could easily be abused (is actually based on the numbers) when it comes to termination. I feel its wrong, I feel is still evil, but I recognize a line which i could never cross. Victims of sexual abuse go through so much and its something they never chose. So such a scenario is different, as is the cases of the woman's life being threatened or the baby being so horribly malformed it wouldn't last anyways. I still dont like playing God but like I said i wouldn't stand in the way in those cases either.
@Still-alive Degenerates? They're not all cut from the same cloth like you like to do with your enemies. I know fitting punishments to and restorative practices, I could go on a whole list but I can promise you one thing sincerely... Rape isn't and will never be a suitable punishment for them, if that's what you're worried about
@Zealconsumesme wow... so jerking off to porn means you're a degenerate and they deserve a fate worse than rape? amazing... we are sooo gonna defeat you sickos in November...
@Still-alive Voting isn't gonna kill me funny guy, we're in a uniparty, even if you were a neocon you're not my ally and I didn't say a fate worse than rape either, you only know I don't intend anything barbaric like rape
@Still-alive I'm absolutely serious, I've been this way for years, I hate every other race and race traitors, it's not a matter of superiority, I know they want me dead, my culture destroyed, and my kids raped and humiliated.
@Zealconsumesme what did he not do enough of? Signing the pact of steel sealed his nation's fate. He was willing to spill so much of his own people's blood for the sake of his own vanity.
Guys? Who? If I'm lumped in with that for saying something about style aka his attire that's a huge stretch. The fascists objectively had nicer looking attire. Trench coats, eagles, feathers, skulls, etc. Their uniforms just looked better. By comparison allied forces had plain clothing that could even be called boring in the cases of Russia and Great Britain.
This is where we are in America now. People are unsure what defines a degenerate. People see nothing wrong with living in mommies basement, smoking pot all day and jerking off to porn daily. They think whatever animalistic desire that courses through their veins ought to be gratified. That no thought should be examined. That no examination should be done of one’s life. Literally whatever impulse travels through them they gratify and call legitimate. It’s as if they don’t know right from wrong. Why, this very conversation indicates that. Lots and lots of mental gymnastics being done to say abortion is a good thing. These people lack the ability to read how abortions are performed and the ability to think: “this is repulsive and vile and against nature.”
These same people do hate America also. They use the freedoms we have here against us. They use freedom of speech as a vehicle to not only spread degeneracy and destroy the moral fabric of this country, they use it to undermine the country itself. They despise our country. In fact they despise the concept of individual races, and cultures and nations. They want to blend every thing into one homogeneous blob.
So this is where we’re at now. They’re confused what moral degeneracy is. They can’t imagine what’s wrong with porn. They think it’s good women prostitute themselves on film doing vile things for money and are entertained by this. They say: “she’s been empowered as a woman.”
They also hate the idea of authoritarianism. The idea of being severely punished for engaging in such behavior is shocking to them. They think no one should ever be held responsible for perverting the minds of the youth in this country with tranny story hour. They think no one should be punished for making videos and producing them of women sucking off donkeys or participating in gang bangs. They think no one should ever be held accountable for using free speech to promote treason.
Don’t come @ me with contraceptive bs. I use birth control. Doesn’t mean it can’t fail. Not my fault if it does😂im never not going to have sex with my boyfriend. Sex is for pleasure mostly nowadays not baby making. Ew babies😭😭😭
@Brittanyroseee no it's not. If you can afford a vehicle you can more than afford that procedure. You're looking at a $4,000-$6,000 procedure and you live in Orange County and the only way you can afford to do that is if someone in your circle or yourself is loaded or you're living way above your own means. you can do payment plans anyways. The people who get abortions over casual sex and mess ups are Waffen SS levels of evil.
@Brittanyroseee also: Why does he pick trashy girls over me? ↗ I don't know how else for you to understand you're not a "good girl". In what way does a female who would have an abortion over casual sex be considered a "good girl"? Tf? Based on what you said you sound neither good/nice or stable minded. You claiming he's "your type" because he's hot. He also hangs around crack whores according to you yet you still chase him? Yeah not stable mentally.
I don’t want and don’t have kids for many of the reasons you mentioned. We’re in agreement there.
I’m 45. Got no one preggers yet. I’m careful. I know how babies are made. I take the proper precautions so as not to have an issue. My wife is on the pill. So was my ex wife. I came in them both many times. Not one issue.
That said, if I got my wife pregnant, yeah, I’d probably be dismayed, but I’d still accept that as the consequences of my actions and I’d not want an abortion. My wife agrees. Sometimes there are negative consequences in life or unexpected outcomes. That doesn’t alleviate us of personal responsibility.
Abortion is barbaric. Better to have to have children I didn’t intend to then to engage in such an act. God is sovereign in all things.
@Exterminatore my wife was given meds for something, and wasn’t told it inhibited the birth control pills. Got her preggo and we got an abortion around the tenth week. How awful are we?
@Still-alive In your opinion, not in mine nor in the opinion of billions of people around the world and 100+ million in this country. Its also not the scientific definition of human life.
Your welcome to express your opinion as the basis of the preferred policy of your state, but you have no right to impose that opinion on me in my state.
@monorprise "Your welcome to express your opinion as the basis of the preferred policy of your state, but you have no right to impose that opinion on me in my state."
and if and when the republican party enacts a law outlawing abortion federally would you oppose that as well? because a number have expressed this desire to make happen after all. www.forbes.com/.../?sh=abe07a323eda
@Still-alive I would absolutely oppose the republican party in almost any federal domestic law including but not limited to the issue of Abortion, as it applies to any State. I am a strict constitutionalist I am strongly against even giving federal money to States for anything other than to finance National Guard training and weapons.
@Still-alive The question of whether or not a State should do a thing is a very different one than whether or not a State can. We may agree a state should make no such law, but that is a very different question from Can.
If the State can outlaw any other kind of medical procedure or product, why not contraceptives?
If you don't like that fact the correct course of action is to get a State Constitutional amendment, if you lived in my state I would vote for it.
@t-8900 because I don’t want to carry an unwanted fetus for 9 months? And go through 9 months of pain plus giving birth which is extremely painful also DANGEROUS I COULD DIE!
@vendela these men probably also think its weird that woman don’t want kids lol. I don’t want kids😂im career driven. I love animals a lot more. Babies and toddlers are gross. They throw tantrums, cry 24/7 and shit their pants. Why would i want that?
@Brittanyroseee These "men" only view women as a baby making machines. And they'd probably be disappointed if the "baby making machine" had a baby girl.
@Brittanyroseee then don't have sex? It's not that hard tbh. What you're saying is you're willing to kill your own kids simply for pleasure and convenience. Sounds a lot like the same mentality of a rapist/serial killer. What's more you totally disrespect the child that could be. "Yeeted", smiley faces, etc you show a total lack of humanity.
@vendela literally its gross. Im not a breeding animal. I don’t want kids. If they care so much about them damn kids, they should adopt the millions of kids in foster care.
@t-8900 yes id rather “kill” the fetus than ruin my mental and physical health😂bruh don’t have sex? So I shouldn’t have sex with my husband or boyfriend ever? There are married couples that NEVER want children dude..
@Vendela and I chose abstinence till I found a worthy partner. Are you saying women can't do it? Are they incapable? All this shit about equality but then out with the kid gloves. Freedom of choice is not freedom of concequences. If women didn't have access to modern day birth control, as was the case throughout most of our history they simply didn't screw around the way they do today by the way neither did most men. Relationships actually mattered. Y'all cheapen everything in life l. Relationships, children, family, friendship, love, it's been thrown out the window for one's self 100%. I suppose the only silver lining is that since y'all aren't breeding your policies will eventually be voted out since conservatives tend to have children and in stable homes while white liberals are basically dropping like flies without replacement
@Brittanyroseee so you're husband is too broke for a vasectomy? A roughly $1500 procedure? And he's too broke to get you fixed? And y'all have zero health insurance? And y'all do what then? Live on food stamps? You can avoid the problem for $2k and choose not to. So yeah basically you're evil AF. It's not about you're mental health, don't pretend like it is. Even if you get pregnant you could put the child up for adoption and give them a fighting chance Instead your solution is to snuff out their life. And then people like you bitch when you aren't treated with respect. Bruh no one's got respect for a murderer, period. And no way in hell they're an equal in any way, shape, or form to people who don't do those things. They're lesser, period. Rape or life threatening situations can have justification. The shit you're talking about is as evil as it gets. Laugh about it while you can. Every dog has their day.
@t-8900 by the way im a trump supporter and i will always choose my life over the fetus lol. Don’t even get me started on not having kids. I have had men tell me im selfish for never wanting them.
@Brittanyroseee nah I'm having kids soon actually. I love life and I love kids and while you live a barren life those of us who do have kids will create a future for society and your views will be bred out Also don't lie, I know the cost of living in orange county and the people who can actually afford to live there. So we've established there is no "good" in you. That's why you got man problems in your life. Have kids, don't have kids, not the point. Prevent the problem by taking proper precautions. Don't make others suffer because of your negligence. You're not a child anymore, time to adult up.
@t-8900 man up and stop telling me what to do with my body and life. Orange county is actually expensive af. The rent is 2k a month. I don’t even make enough money myself to afford my own apartment without roommates hence i still live with my parents.
@Brittanyroseee have kids or don't, that's not the point. Just prevent ever needing an abortion, ever. I'm not against abortion in cases of rape or health. It's not selfish to not want or not have kids. It's selfish to terminate a life for convenience sake. That's my whole point. I'd be okay with states paying for you and those like you to get your tubes tied. It's not causing harm to another. I just don't like abortion, it's evil. Contraceptives are 100% okay with me If we need taxpayers to fork out money for them and surgeries to prevent the death of the innocent then I'm 100% on board
@Still-alive I actually only ever had sex once… but im on birth control. I don’t even sleep around. But if i were to ever get pregnant, yes it would be aborted ASAP. What if im married and my husband also agrees to no children? Are we supposed to never have sex? Prolifers are insane with their thinking..
@Brittanyroseee that's not what I said. Because you laugh about killing your kids and would opt for it over any and all other options. That's as evil ax it gets
@t-8900 that is YOUR opinion but i will still abort if i ever get pregnant thanks! Vasectomies and tube tying is very expensive and just because i live in orange county California does not mean i have the money to do that for myself lol. I make little money my guy😂so GTFO with that bs
@Still-alive exactly i am responsible I don’t even have sex but if i ever were to get pregnant, yes i would get rid of it. Im on birth control anyway so its not like im being irresponsible
@Brittanyroseee it's 100% evil and many women regret their abortions. Many have had one and then later become pro lifers. I don't need to adopt, I already do my part more than the vast majority of people doing work to help kids in the poorest communities. Here's a question then Want happens if abortion did become outright banned? Or if we have an economic collapse and there are no clinics opened. Would you still have a bunch of sex and use a coat hanger or would you practice abstinence?
@t-8900 funny because like i said, I don’t sleep around and i only had sex once. But like i also said, if i do get pregnant, it will be aborted. Sorry!
@Brittanyroseee my point is you are risking your life with underground abortions so not sure why it would be worth it to even risk sex at that point and then potentially die. That's what I was getting at. My gripe is you made a mockery of the whole thing. It's not a funny topic, it's a sad one.
@Brittanyroseee i mean I also think murderers on death row should be terminated. People killing their babies I feel are just as evil. Its true it is triggering that murderers still have rights, I'll give you that one.
I can empathize with both you and your wife as you took all the precautions you knew to take and it turns out your wife wasn’t informed about a medication interaction resulting in her pregnancy. I empathize with you both, I truly do. This is not a case of irresponsibility on either of your part. If I were in your shoes I’d have been deeply disturbed. I never wanted nor do I want children now. Again, I can totally empathize with you both.
How I’d view such a circumstance Is the will of God. If I got my wife pregnant than I’d view it as God changed my plan. I believe God is sovereign, and that nothing happens he didn’t make happen or allow to happen. I believe he knows my thoughts and circumstances. If my wife got pregnant through circumstances unrelated to irresponsibility (forgot to take a pill or something like that) then I’d have to view it as God overruling my decision to not have children.
I’d view it as I had a hand in causing that pregnancy and therefore I am duty bound to accept the new course of life God has determined for me. I’d view it that I am duty bound to preserve life regardless of consequence because my life is not my own. It’s not about my plans and dreams and hopes and wants, it’s about what God would have me to do as I am his servant and have no leeway to place conditions on my service. I’d then, despite my misgivings give that child all the love and the best life I could. I’d know this was God’s will for my life and I’d know he’d give me both the grace and guidance to raise that child. Additionally knowing how serious I am about not wanting children and never having gotten a vasectomy would also factor into my own personal responsibility. Knowing I can do that at any time and pretty much 100% eliminate any chance of pregnancy, but yet haven’t done that.
Odd, all I know is this. We all have personal responsibility and accountability in life and hardship doesn’t elevate us of those. We are responsible for our actions and choices.
@Exterminatore Firstly... Thanks for a calm response. I was expecting more backlash. I think more people should be upfront with their abortions and take the stygma away.
And I really have no argument against your view. Which I think is the issue here. Religionists like yourself feel these are fetuses with souls.
But unfortunately the soul of my wife didn't want it in her body. Just as there's a child out there that could survive if he had your bone marrow. But no one is forcing you to donate. Because thats your body, your choice.
@OddBeMe false equivalency and last I checked we became a superpower when as an infant we fought the demons holding us down and spilled the blood necessary to get our independence. We can hand them rifles and grenades and they can take back their countries because tbh I live in a 73% hispanic community now and they have zero interest by and large to assimilate. Many want to "reclaim their land". It's not a few saying it, it's a lot. I live 50 miles from the boarder, not interested. We keep putting bandaids on problems and as taxes keep going up, Social Security and Welfare programs reduce to spread for more of them to come in and be housed and fed, the people living here suffer. By all means join a mission and go to them and help them out. For the record I've done this before. Practice what you preach.
@OddBeMe i want you to think about this, as we take in more people, send more missiles and weapons to ukraine, and subsidize the third world we are removing from the mouths of our own people. We could prevent total homelessness in this country. We could get addicts better help. We could help all our mentally ill. We could make it so everyone that retires will never have to worry about going homeless or not seeing a doctor. Stop spending for people the world over. Globalism is shit. Nationalism or bust.
@t-8900 That was Hitler's belief... extreme nationalism and autarky, and its shit. Economics says immigration is good. Honestly its the useless eaters that are already here that are the problem (just to put Godwins law on both of us).
@OddBeMe no one said no immigration. We want USEFUL immigration. Idgaf what part of the world they are from. But lets take the best, not the people who have nothing to offer and will require welfare as upstarts and who can't speak a lick of our language with a laundry list of personal problems. My doctor is from Nigeria, a useful immigrant. The people at San Dimas hospital from the Philippines, India, and Korea, useful immigrants. So no, not like Hitler. Give me a break. It's annoying when people use him like a buzzword. by the way a fun pic of Zelensky shaking hands with a neo nazi www.conservapedia.com/...lensky_neo-Nazi_award.PNG
@OddBeMe Holy crap batman!!! Another Potato Head moment by the way, look it up on YouTube, it's hilarious. Talking about the NHL commissioner Gary Bettman. He called him Gary Batman! You cannot make this stuff up. The players in the background are laughing and can't help it. Anyways, you love yourself some butt stuff, receiving all that. And you admit to your wife having an abortion? I'll give you that much, you love being a weirdo and you have no compunction. You knocked up your wife just like you might knock up a sock. Except in this scenario the sock is your wife's poontang. You throw away a life as if your salty cum dries out in a 99 year old dry womans pussy.
@OddBeMe because we have let our people stagnate in decadence for too long. We can fix it, but not going the way we're going giving into hedonism at every turn.
"you don't know who will be useful and who will suck the tit."
the ones who are useful sport useful degrees and certifications.
@t-8900 sorry ain't gonna wait for that. there's immigrants at the door who's work ethic is 10x lazy Americans. Capitalism is about the best man winning. Why are you anti-capitalist?
@Brittanyroseee You are strange. At least you are one us, a deplorable. At the same time, to have virgin sex, get knocked up, throw it away. I mean, when it comes to being labeled a sex object that women totally hate, you are indeed saying your pussy is a cum sock. So all feminists are indeed calling their pussy's sex objects. And you do your vaginal screaming at Foley Sqaure in NYC. Good thing is, you can just move to a state that allows you to be a sex object. So, really, who should care about Roe v Wade being overturned? Is that not why we are the greatest Country? The experiment...
@OddBeMe laziness? depends on how you look at it. Latin America is full of natural resources and rich soil. They are running from their problems, cowardice. We dont need cowards here. In WWII my grandfather stayed in Italy for another 5 years after the war serving his peacekeeping duties and he fought too. Yknow, cuz he wasn't a lazy coward and all...
@t-8900 if my daughter is about to be kidnapped and forced into sexual slaver, or my son is tempted to go work for the cartels, bet your ass I'd hop the border of the US illegally.
@t-8900 their countries? maybe. But the immigrants are still refugees. And by the way... the cartels are selling to Americans. Its our demand causing the pain in Latin countries.
@OddBeMe It's great isn't it? You bet your bottom as dollar your kids would hop the fence. What happens? They get here. They acclimatize, they earn it. In Florida, folks from Cuba come over. Once they hit land they are scott free. It's a lottery. They get caught in the ocean or gulf? They go home. They weren't offed by abortion though, so they have much better odds. God bless the USA!!!
@OddBeMe and who's enabling them to use, giving out needles rather than institutionalizing them? Dems... yeah it all comes full circle. I dont use anything, I'm not the problem. Instead of helping people in the middle east and ukraine lets just slaughter the cartels.
@OddBeMe Other cool thing is, they migrate everywhere. They become Americans. And us Conservatives have no fucking problem. We won't let them be deported. They work hard and they enjoy it.
@Zealconsumesme That @stay-alive douche turns the cheek. All liberals here, no matter how crass I get, they pretty much let me fly. It allows for real discussion. He just wants him some Obama, Hillary, and Biden Ministration of Truth. We won't allow that bs. They don't get it. We are coming.
@t-8900 ouch... can't win with logic so go back political party. And the foreign spending is a drop in the bucket to defense spending. And who's upping defense? GOP.
@OddBeMe It is logic based. Take care of our own first, then you can help others. But not before, period. its not a drop in the bucket. Why are they cutting social welfare programs and social security? Our nation is a world wide merc force. You understand that right? That was apart of our transition during the great society. Its not the military that's the problem, it's how it's being used.
@OddBeMe There is a reason why you have that moniker. Oddbeme. Some of us have the dark MAGA energy. We do it differently. Never could I ever mask myself that way. It's in you. And I appreciatez that. Next thing I need to do, is try to figure out how I can have overalls to carry my Leatherman, my Knife, my pocket 9. And not do it with $90 dollar 5.11 pants. This DARK energy knows no bounds!
@OddBeMe Damnation! You bitched about rnr being stolen from black man. Get some skin. You live in sin? It's ever revolving. Get yourself some Bon Scott. Listen to it, not just the kick ass guitar. The lyrics. Get your head out of your bung. The energy is there.
@t-8900 no our actual military is huuuuggggee. Not just private merc companies. But your little mind can’t see taking care of Ukraine and Taiwan halts hostile moves by China and Russia. You sound like Neville Chamberlain during WW2.
But back to immigrants…you realize how un-capitalist anti immigration is right?
@OddBeMe You do get it don't you? We need big dick energy. It's natural. We have a reputation, really have the knack. We havezzzz the full sack. And we always have everyones back, and yourz. Gracias.
@OddBeMe 1) already stated I'm not anti immigration, I'm anti useless immigration. Best of the best only. 2) I said we are the world's private merc force not that we just send out mercs. Wtf are you talking about? We get hired to bomb tf out of people and skull f*ck pansies and that is our bread and butter. 3) Russia is a non-issue, China is. We have no former declaration of alliance with Ukraine because Ukraine was stupid. Ukraine had many chances to fix their issues but kept trying to bargain. Ukraine overplayed it's hand, now Ukraine pays for it's blunders. Not our problem. Cartels are a bigger threat right now. Wiping out cartels should be priority #1.
@t-8900 and I said you have no way knowing which is “useless”. And I said stats are way on the immigrants side for productivity. You want to keep useless Americans which is as communist as they come. Fckin marxist cuck. :)
@OddBeMe not 100% but statistically. Can they go to work tomorrow without a single taxpayer dime funding for their homes, food, etc when they first get over? or their healthcare? If the answer is no, they shouldn't be allowed in unless they have a degree or certification. There's lots of people trying to come here still. We have enough poor to worry about. We have machines picking our crops more and more now, so they're out.
@OddBeMe learn the difference between Nationalism and Communist. Not the same thing. We have a responsibility to our own people and nation 1st and foremost. America first, forever and always.
@OddBeMe I've seen them apply for welfare benefits without being able to speak English aka lazy. I've heard them claim they want to "take back the land", in other words they are invaders aka enemies. Next I have seen them waving the flags of their countries of origin instead of waving our's aka a declaration of conquest. The average work week of Americans is 41 hours for men, 36 for women, plus unlike you many were NOT murdering their offspring because they were not selfish and lazy. See how that works now?
@t-8900 My god…what you’ve seen! That changes everything! Actually it doesn’t…it’s called confirmation bias, so pervasive that courts don’t value eye witness accounts anymore.
Perhaps just base you opinions on pure facts. Illegal immigrants commonly have 14 hour work days, few days off and still get a quarter of the pay of regular citizens. And not speaking English isn’t a big fckin deal.
@OddBeMe when people go around breaking the laws and disrespect my home I tend to be very unsympathetic. Yes it DOES matter that they can't speak English. Officer: "Drop the gun" or "Turn off your vehicle" or "Stop now" etc, etc Immigrant: ¿Qué? American citizen with castle doctrine and stand your ground: "Get off my property" Immigrant: ¿Qué? Problems happen. Also there are illegals who have driven drunk and killed our own citizens as a result and fled the scene. It's hard to track those people down without fingerprints. Trump wasn't wrong when he also said "Some are rapists and Murderers". We all know this to be true, even you. No ALL but even a few is too many. They need to be documented and go through evaluations, including mental health and criminal background checks and fingerprinting and DNA logging. Anything less is unacceptable and poses too great a risk to the people living here.
@t-8900 you like have a Clint Eastwood view of immigrants. Are police having issues gunning down migrants who they can’t communicate with? No…it’s black dudes they think no one cares about.
Trump was wrong to make immigrant crime seem higher than native born criminals when it’s not even fcking close. White criminals are and have been the highest customers in the Justice system.
You have this emotional take on immigrants and I bet it’s from the media you watch. Like this scene from American History X. All bullshit, the stats are completely backward. But it riles up the racists.
@OddBeMe hilarious take but completely wrong. My girlfriend feels the same way, by the way she's from El Salvador. But her family came with skills and they applied legally. Some of my closest friends hail from Latin America. I actually have more brown friends then white friends. My grandfather came here in 1952, he was an immigrant. He also learned English before coming over and brought a skill set and employed 50 American workers. There's a difference. And Clint Eastwood was a bad ass and was a star in some of my favorite films anyways so I'm cool with that.
@OddBeMe No Auschwitz is killing and eugenics, which you yourself admitted to participating in. Huge difference. You vet who is skilled by them presenting proof of said skills and then demonstrating them in a competency in a testing area.
@t-8900 1) no I never ascribed to eugenics, but thanks for the non sequitur. 2) as I said, we have the best universities, why can’t immigrants prove themselves after? Again, the stats are more likely they will be 10x productive than lazy whites.
by the way, like video games? Because the “father of video games”, Ralph H. Baer, immigrated at 13 with his Jewish family in 1930s. Your standards probably wouldn’t have let him in.
But instead we gave them citizenship and he went to excellent schools, and then invented the foundation of video games.
@OddBeMe deciding who lives and who dies in the womb, sounds as Nazi as it gets. And Nazis loved their eugenics. Mengele would approve. " as I said, we have the best universities, why can’t immigrants prove themselves after?" Okay if they pay every nickel and dime themselves and not taxpayer supplementing. No subsidies, zero. Also are you saying Americans are only "whites" now? No one said shit about race. Ralph H. Baer came with his family who were German Jews who were the wealthiest ethnic class in the country in the 1920's and 1930's so I would have to evaluate based on what his father was doing for work. But the "Laziness" you talk about was heavily attributed to video games SO you could say he's hurt our production as a nation anyways.
Nothing has been decided yet. However, if this leak is indeed the final decision from the Supreme Court, the "right to choose" won't become illegal. It just means that each state will have the right to have their own set of laws. The most populated states in the country, other than Texas and maybe a few populated "swing" states (like Florida and Ohio), will still have the right to choose in place. Also, I'm not sure how it will affect federal funding, if at all.
Mixed, but at the same time I believe in state rights, so if your state is going to outlaw it, elect people to make it legal. Still totally possible to do that.
Not really cause I am a constitutionalist and if we followed it then the tenth amendment would rule. Meaning the feds have no authority over anything not specifically granted to them in the constitution.
Remember it says the federal government has the supremacy clause in anything specifically granted to it, but something that isn't spelled out is left for the states to decide on and they have no business getting involved.
@OddBeMe The State has the Constitutional authority to deal with all such domestic issues including the related issues of murder and medical procedures. The Federal Government doesn't have any such domestic authority in its 11 page Constitution.
Instead they are suppose to be addressing issues, like inflation, securing the border, making sure we don't get nuked off the face of the earth, and making sure we we have sound trade deals.
All of theses polices are very different, calling for different sorts of leaders than the ones addressing domestic concerns like abortion, murder, medical procedures etc...
@OddBeMe 2 States are resisting 2 are fully cooperating, none of them doing so in any consequential way. The Federal Government has used eliminate domain to get the land needed to build the wall regardless.
The real failure is in interior enforcement, and arguably the Feds could simply use a bounty system and let the States that want to try and host the people who don't respect immigration law refuse to participate.
@OddBeMe Please belabor, your argument that "Constitutionalist" are settled on Roe V. Wade. Start with defining what a "Constitutionalist" is to you, its clearly not someone who has read the 11 page federal constitution, nor the people who lived under it for the first 200 years, nor half the country, nor it seems even many if not most members of the U. S. Supreme court.
@OddBeMe I did not claim State law trumps Federal law made Pursuance to the U. S. Constitution. That is quite clear in Article 6 Section 2. The issue is most domestic Federal law today is no longer made Pursuance to any clause of the U. S. Constitution for the simple reason that they haven't needed to in practice. When a criminal is allowed to use his hand picked friend to define and enforce all laws. He tends to get away with almost everything.
This was not always the case, the original system had a concept know as Checks and balances, where the due process of law required the constitutional consent of many different parties, any one of which could veto the infraction halting the progress of the evil.
In the last 100 years most of those parties have simply become rubber stamps refusing to take any responsibility for what they did. Instead treating the Constitution like a apostate treats God Insisting they could not do a thing if it were illegal.
Support, but with it falling to the states, the blue states will have more freedom to go even harder into abortion, while red states will move farther away from it. It doesn’t really help the abortion issue much, but it’s a good thing for states’ rights.
Because it allows you to pick a territory to live in that favors your brand of politics.
Want legal access to more guns, move to a gun friendly state. Don’t like guns, move to a state with stricter gun control. Want to smoke weed, move to a weed friendly state. Don’t like weed, move elsewhere, and so on and so forth with every issue.
It enables voters to create territories through voting that they like best, at least ideally, and also leaves room for those who are disgruntled about the state laws to live in a place that more suits them politically and ideologically. It also allows the various states to pass legislation that suits their individual needs based on the challenges they face.
To decentralize power and cater to the needs and wants of specific inhabitants. Smaller governments focused on their own problems are more efficient at solving them, or at least can be left to those people to be responsible for their own problems and live with what they choose to accept. That’s freedom. A federal government would still exist, but it is limited in its power. Power should be oriented downward — individual rights protected over the regional state, the regional protected over the federal state. The federal state only assumes power in extreme situations and defaulted back to states and individuals otherwise.
Well there are all sorts of hot button issues for and against. I keep thinking about these statistics. 63% of Americans believe in right to abortion. The kind of woman that is most likely to be getting an abortion is not the unwed mother but a married woman that already has a newborn
If Roe Vs Wade is found unconstitutional then it will be fought in every state that try’s to continue with abortions. They will have to make it lawful in that state and that may not happen if the bases of their arguments aren’t changed. If Roe Vs Wade is made illegal by being unconstitutional then they have no argument
I'm in full support, maybe dems can use that to pass that supposedly very popular legislation while having the majority in house and senate. You just need 9 GOP, well, maybe more since maybe not all the dems will be in. And to craft a very sensible uncontroversial legislation. And to not be massive hypocrites as well in the process, remember the medical apartheid?
Otherwise, don't come crying because it will be up to the states.
The rate of abortions is lower today than it was in 1973 when Roe was decided by a large majority of bipartisan judges. Of course many of the same people pushing for abortion bans also fight against sex and relationship education.
As a non-American citizens you should know this case has a lot more to do with American Constitutional Federalism than it does abortion.
Unfortunately or fortunately practical abortion policy will be very little changed if the court does what is suggested here. So Abortion really isn't very much the issue at all.
@monorprise As I understand it, it will just mean handing back responsibility for abortion legislation to the states, from which it shouldn't ever have been taken from in the first place.
@snsl153 that is the opinion given , but for larger context a court that can issue on the bench such a large and complex set of rules unilaterally is a very dangerous oligarchy.
Unfortunately that issue too will not be resolved with such an opinion for it must be addressed by the other 2 branches and levels of government said oligarchs robed.
Yes, it would mean that abortion would be decided by each state instead of Washington ruling over all 50 states. Just like the speed limit may be 70 in Tennessee and 65 in Kentucky.
It’s a win for states rights. But I’m personally more concerned about the unprecedented leaking of a Supreme Court opinion draft. All of our institutions are failing.
This is fucked up beyond what I imagined possible. I wanted to have the more sane right dampen the insane woke left so old-school liberals could flourish..
Bernie Sanders was one of these at one point but he has fallen to corruption and bent the knee towards the establishment. I think AOC was sincere at one point too.
I know this is going to sound crazy but the woke sjw left is not actually liberal at all. Liberals are not crazy authoritarians, they are actually quite close towards libertarians except their social views are more left and they don't suck off corporations.
People are really freaking out over the fact that other people in other states are going to be a little more restrictive on what they see as a medical procedure those people see as murder, then they would be in their own state.
Its really very colonial of theses people, and seems to ignore not only are is nobody is forced to live in any state, but the same State legislator is already making policy on far more serous issues ranging from murder to every other sort of medical procedure.
Frankly if they are soo distributed by such judgement they really should vote with their feet, on that account not abortion.
A fetus is nothing more than a baby in a different and earlier stage of development. This does not make it any less human and certainly does not make it something different than a person. This is like saying that all baby animals are not really animals until they are born which is garbage. I attempting to assign a special name and classification to an unborn human being you do not remove its humanity and you do not remove the fact that anything you do to harm it is still murder. I know you probably don't like this and don't agree with it but as far as I'm concerned and as far as many people are concerned abortion is no different than murder.
Sure but when taking rights away from people, it needs to be balanced. Right of a woman to decide what goes on in her body vs an 8 week old fetus with no brain or nervous system.
Like I said before, you anti’s are so full of emotion, and I get it. But the law is written emotionless.
An eight week old fetus most certainly has both brain and a nervous system. It may not be up to the standard you would expect from a fully developed baby but none the less both the potential and the seed of a human being are there. Most importantly it contains life. The convenience of the woman carrying it does not outweigh it's right to live.
I understand you believe that, but there is no evidence to support it really. Did you know that some intestinal cells seem to function like neurons? Does that mean they "think"? I have no idea. I don't even know what the phrase "to think" actually means or what the operational definitions of "thinking" or "consciousness" really are. Do you?
So yeah we’re two non scientists arguing over “what’s life?” But isn’t that the ultimate problem? Politicians are even dumber than we are. Yet womens rights are being taken.
Sounds like in a lot of Red States women are getting equality with men--if you don't want the responsibilities of parenthood, don't have sex. They'll have to man up and be responsible.
The decision doesn’t ban abortion, instead it puts the control back to the states where it belongs. it is just no longer a Federal protection and hopefully our tax dollars will quit funding the ironically named Planned Parenthood..
Fantastic. So libtards will really think twice about moving to red areas and keeping their idiotic ideals from fucking up the sane parts of the USA. Win win.
@DarkWinterNights A couple states are turning blue slowly but surely. Texas for one will likely turn blue by at least 2028.
just remember there's far farrrr more demcorats in our population than there are republicans. we outnumber them y almost 10% the last time i checked anyways. if we all turned out to vote.
Well the problem for democrats are that they are losing independents with a lot of their far left policies. Republicans have a very low approval rating by even their own party because they never actually do anything.
As for Republicans hating their own party, just ask a Republican. Many would rather identify as a “moderate” or an independent because it’s less embarrassing.
@DarkWinterNights well even if true i still feel confident THIS one decision will wake all the democrats up. i feel its highly likely you will see massive democrat voter turnout this November
it should have always remained a state's right issue, so overturning this would be the right thing to do. I don't understand. Democrats love big government, but only as long as it gives the permission to kill their unborn babies?
I think that it’s ridiculous to be going back when we are supposed to be moving forward
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We must pray that Satan the Devil, who is now FURIOUS about the Court's decision, does not achieve victory. We've been living under the abomination of Row v Wade for WAY too long now
If we know that Satan comes to rob, kill, and destroy, then we know that Satan is the epitome of all kinds of evil and wickedness. And unfortunately, God is being forced to hand many people over to a "reprobate mind", because of their refusal to understand the truth of what's going on around them. Satan has literally become their "god" without them even knowing it.
God has to take particular actions (Judgments) against people and nations when there is a strong enough "turning away from Him" or mass sinfulness taking place. God does not take pleasure in having to do so, but this is the unbelievable state of affairs in the USA right now in these last of the last days prior to Jesus' 2nd Coming
That's been happing for decades, Federal edicts like Roe v. wade is a major contributing factor. Not only because they took what was until 1973 a state issue and made it federal disenfranchising half the country.
They did it in an entirely oligarchical way by issuing a very complex policy from the bench, which was written in no law by any legislator nor ratified by any American.
This is the real reason Roe v. Wade had to go, it has nothing to do with the policy on Abortion which believe it or not effectively be unchanged. It has to do with the nature of the existences of law and federalism.
@Snsl153 I wouldn't hold your breath, the people fixing to riot are the unarmed idiots of the population. They will be allowed to riot only in the places they control destroying their own property.
They cross the line and as before they will find the local police of the conservatives areas not only don't take shit, they are backed up by a rifle behind every blade of grass.
@Razp_Sorbet That it was leaked in this case and not in any other to benefit the left is more a reflection of the general inability of the conservative half of America to get equal treatment much less justice in the Federal District of Columbia.
That said I personally think the whole idea of court secrecy in making judgement to be a fraud, if it were really justice it would be transparent.
The thing that you should know about "free healthcare" is that it's not actually free, because someone, somewhere along the line has to pay for it. Usually it's everyone, through higher taxes.
@Oddballme a majority of European nations have abortion restricted to 11-20 weeks (12 weeks is the end of first trimester and most common). A majority of US states have abortion that is legal to 21-30 weeks, with our of womb survival being 24 weeks and a common cutoff.
Also in these countries you can still get abortions after the cut off If it's medically necessary. Most abortions are done before 12 weeks. Those done after are likely wanted pregnancies. Also the surgical removal of a deceased fetus is still called an abortion.
Not mention women have literally been charged with murder for having a miscarriage. There is no way to tell the difference between a medically induced abortion and a spontaneous one.
@loveslongnails That depends if they call themselves judges no. If they call themselves elected state legislators they do that all the time. They define what sorts of medical procedures are legal in their domain just as they also define when the protection of the right to life begins and ends as well as whatever exceptions there are.
This is called the due process of law making. What the court did in Roe v. wade was dictate a highly complex legal code on the bench unilaterally. No text written by any elected official nor voted on by any American.
That was wrong, and fundamentally anti-constitutional, this is the main reason specifically Roe v. wade has to go. We can debate the merits of abortion afterwards in our State legislators where such debates are suppose to happen and be resolved, not the court room.
@monorprise I disagree. Roe v Wade was about access. It never placed an undo burden on anyone. Should it have been done from the bench in the way it happened - probably not, but it's not without precedent, since you're talking about "due process". Let's not forget something VERY basic here - there's "law", and there's "what's right", and if you have different mindsets, they are not often congruous.
@loveslongnails What is "right to you", is clearly not the same as "what is right" to me nor half my country. The law making process is designed for us to where necessary resolve these differences in a 'law' reflecting what little we can agree is 'right' where we can agree on it.
In the American System that consisted of 2 different Constitution at first the State then Federal level defining the limits of our consent and how that power which we consent to must be wielded. That Constitutional process at the federal and most states consist of 3 branches including a bicameral legislature. This bicameral legislator in America is reality designed to insure that both the majority of the people whose resources are used agree to an act and the majorly of its self-governing regions who's interest may conflict agree. Otherwise the law may better be applied only at the level of those regions where it is beneficial.
Unfortunately thanks to the lawlessness of the same court all states lost their republican form of Goverment and as a direct result many states became largely colonies of urban regions with disastrous results.
@monorprise I fully understand the way our system was designed to work, how it actually works, and how it is perverted. The history lesson was nice but it is an aside to our opinions. Roe v Wade involved far more than can be discussed here intelligently. However, your statement proves the point - a slight majority, say 50.1% to 51%, is hardly grounds for establishing law over the other percentage. In a nutshell, that's the purpose of any Federal Law, which is to guarantee the rights of parties to a given thing "despite" their geographical location or the pervading ideology or whatever group happens to be in charge. That's what's going to be lost in this transaction, and we can argue the "states rights" angle of it all day, but to me, it seems akin to the same argument used for slavery.
Your claim that R v W "disenfranchised half the country" is not one I accept. Abortions were not forced on those who did not want it, against their will. What states are doing now IS forcing a pregnancy to be brought to term subject to an event which the prevailing legislative party "believes" to be significant and valid. If that state's legislature passed such a law by one vote, who's "disenfranchised" then?
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