Is kneeling during the American National Anthem a protest against Racism or a protest against America?

[Physics-Man]

Racism

America

Other

[nightdrot]

Voted C - "Other." Actually it is neither specifically anti-American nor anti-racist. Rather what it is, frankly, is a symptom of the age. Self-absorption and moral preening. Moral exhibitionism tarted up as sensitivity and an allegedly higher standard. In this it says less about the country or racism than it does about the person "taking a knee."

Once upon a time, there was a time and a place. The propriety of conduct - ANY conduct - was circumstantial. Yes, it is good to be against racism, but inflicting controversy on moments of solemnity or of celebration or of a gathering of a sense of community proves nothing. Other than that the person inflicting that controversy cannot believe that anything matters more than that person and his/her own estimation of the presumed nobility of his/her opinions.

Indeed, paradoxically, over time, such gestures become self-defeating. Just more background noise in a culture that it already cluttered with all the background noise that suffuses the society. Eventually, people tune it out and all that is left behind is cynicism and recriminations. The cause that was being allegedly advocated is treated as just one more "log on the fire," and the advocate just another self-regarding face in the crowd.

The fact is that messages work when delivered at the appropriate time and place. When the mind is engaged and not just the emotions. When there is symbolism made as mere gesture, it becomes symbolic of nothing. Ideas are not seriously entertained, but mere emotion is bandied about. Nothing is discussed and therefore nothing is resolved.

Indeed, the case of the now largely forgotten Colin Kaepernick proves the point. The discussion became not about the issue or issues he was supposedly advocating, but rather about the merits of the man and the controversy he was bringing to a sport that people watch for pleasure. Was the audience moved to deep thinking or mere irritation? If what has been heard of Mr. Kaepernick since his forays into moral exhibitionism is any indication, it must be assumed the latter.

To get back to the opening point, abetted perhaps by the nature of modern technology, which allows people to live their lives in an intellectual hall of mirrors, the current age fosters an ethic of self-regard rather than intellectual and moral reflection. The message is "It's all about meeeeeeeee..." and therefore the messenger presumes that his/her actions convey seriousness and conviction that others must take seriously. Not because the message is serious - sometimes it is, sometimes not - but because the messenger cannot imagine a universe in which his/her opinions should not matter to everyone else.

[WhiteSteve]

Racism, primarily, but specifically the state of racism in America. Honestly, Kaepermick would’ve been trashed just for making the statement, period, the fact that he did it during the anthem just made it easy for detractors to attack it and Mia characterize it, because it would seem a lot of people really don’t want to have the conversation. So the obvious move for those people is to spin it, make Kap the bad guy instead of racists (or people who racism isn’t a deal-breaker for them, also a very problematic attitude), and turn it into an attack on America, and now, conveniently, they’ve essentially tied anti-racism in with anti-Americanism. “tHeSe PeOpLe TaKiNg A sTaNd AgAiNsT rAcIsM hAtE aMeRiCa, It’S THEM wHo ArE tHe BaD pEoPlE, nOt Us, ThE aCtUaL rAcIsTs!”

It’s pretty maddening, since Kaepernick IMMEDIATELY addressed the issue, even spoke with a former green beret/NFL vet about it, he modified the protest to kneeling (a sign of respect) rather than just sitting, and everyone knows that, but again, they don’t want it mentioned at all, the anthem thing is just their “cloak of decency.”

And not for nothing, Gabe Kapler, the San Francisco Giants manager, is now protesting for gun law reform during the anthem by staying in the clubhouse during the anthem. Kapler is white, and wouldn’t you know it? The SAME right wing faction that loves America also loves guns, hates any mention of gun control, but somehow, I’ve heard nary a peep from pretty much anyone (and certainly not anywhere near the same level of vitriol, for an issue calling for actual LAW change, not just an attitude change like with racism) about how un-American Kapler is, Trump isn’t making public statements about “get that son of a bitch off the field”, etc….. it’s just not the same blowback, not by a mile, from what I would’ve thought would be the same people. Meanwhile everyone was burning Nike gear and calling for Kaepernick to be ousted from the NFL, all that.

I wonder what the difference is….🤔🤔🤔

[WhiteSteve]

the fact that he did it during the anthem just made it easy for detractors to attack it and mischaracterize it

[WhiteSteve]

Forgot the * on the correction😝

[Anonymous]

They're not protesting jack shit. If they really wanted to protest against racism (and of course the only racism that counts is racism against blacks) they would refuse to play the game. They would go on strike. Hmm. Why do you suppose they don't go on strike? Could it be that they like money more than their fake cause?
If these players really wanted to help, they'd do TV commercials like this...

[Massageman]

Right on! When in doubt, follow the bucks!

[Sixgunsound]

@Massageman I’ve tried to follow the science these last few years but it keeps leading me back to the money😆

[Opinion Owner]

@Massageman

It's all about the TV cameras.

[Opinion Owner]

@Sixgunsound

Right after the November elections, Lord Fauci will announce the new Covid "variant." Just wait.

[Opinion Owner]

Thanks for the MHO. U duh man, Phys. Keep 'em coming.

[Sixgunsound]

I thought that was midterm pox?

[sage2021]

It is a protest against nothing at all. Oh, big effort, bend a knee. My dog could do that. If they want examples of what a real protest job st watch the news and they'll see some They wouldn't protest in a way that they wouldn't lose their humongous paychecks!

[sage2021]

@Physics-Man thanks for the MHO 🌹

[Miristheiss]

It is irrelevant.

Regardless of what the person's "intent" is... by choosing to protest during the honoring of the country many will see that as you dishonoring your country... they'll see it as a guy with privilege out the ass getting paid millions of dollars to play a game, one of the most blessed people on the planet putting down the country that has provided him so much blessing.

I'm still surprised they let that go on.

Basically people are being allowed to have political, divisive protests... while ON THE JOB, AT THEIR PLACE OF WORK, IN THEIR WORK UNIFORMS.

Anyone can protest if they want but how many of us would be allowed to do it at work, on company time, at our office, in our work attire?

So anyway, what they mean is kind of lost in the fact that they chose a way/time to do it that will have their meaning get lost. Many feel that is never an appropriate time to have a protest. Most want to watch sports to ESCAPE the crap of real life and politics... only to have millionaires getting political during sports events.

Regardless of what is in the protesters hearts they have chosen a poor way to express their concern. I do not think they are having the desired impact.

[Jabberjaw]

Due to the nature of the event it's disrespecting the country and in effect protesting the country in the name of whatever your cause.

All athletes when wanting to make a statement for years wore something to emulate their cause. And after a win dedicated their time on the mic to make a statement

Kap was on the decline, knew he was on his way out and did the Kneeling so he could claim racism if he did get fired and get press deals. That's just what he did.

He chose arguably the only choice of protest that did spit in the face of the country

[Phoenix98]

It’s just stupid and disrespectful not only to the men and women who have died in fighting for that flag. But to the fans who are paying to see you play not to see your political BS.

if you want to protest or take a stand that’s fine but do it on your own time when your not on the field.

what did it accomplish? Nothing all it did was turn fans away and cost the NFL money.

And now the very guy who started it and said football was the same as slavery is trying to get back into football the very industry he said was racist.

the hypocrisy 🙄

[YungBahlr]

I picked “other” because I’m pretty certain the answer’s both. It seems like a protest on the American government’s dismissive stance on the continuing existence of racism in our society. We still see the consequences of redlining districts, disproportionately long prison sentencing for black men, over policing in minority-dense communities, passive workplace discrimination, etc.


Regardless, it’s well within their right to stand up or kneel for their political beliefs in this country :) shouldn’t require too much discourse on that part.

[ohshee]

It was Against Racism Colin Kaepernick if he knew him has a heart of gold the media is the one that turned it into a against America Colin Kaepernick has a smart-ass mouth which and every right is allowed to have but it was the media turning it into something that it wasn't and that's bulshit he has gone to the Raiders now and I hope that he gets it endorsement from them and he gets to play again he made a point I would have done the same exact thing he did and stuck to my guns the exact same way he did because that's just who I am he lost millions and millions of dollars for being so hard-headed but it wasn't about that it was about the point that he was trying to make

[ohshee]

And I think it had a little bit more to do it's just that it has to do is standing for the pledge of allegiance to the flag Colin Kaepernick is white and black he was also adopted by white parents I think the message that he was trying to send got all mixed up with all the other garbage that the media was putting into it I say that a man did beliefs and something let him believe in it here's one man's doing something to make a point you have how many f****** senators and how many f****** kids have been shot since Sandy Hook and they haven't done anything f****** about it are morals our values our ethics are all mixed up on this planet it's whoever they decide to tick on the media once again through manipulation causes somebody else to fall hardship I hope all those f****** paid one day for doing what they're doing to America you want to ask about racism in America listen to Tom MacDonald he has all the true answers the things that I believe that anyway

[Anonymous]

I think it's meant to be both since to a lot of these clowns America=Racism.

The irony is that these morons have spent approximately ZERO time anywhere else or they'd see that America today is pretty much the least racist place they're going to find anywhere in the world at any time in history. And of course if anything their obsessive focus on race is doing everything possible to rehabilitate the old-school racism that they CLAIM to stand against, but in reality of action completely support.

[OpenClose]

If it were protesting America, they wouldn't have chosen the kneel specifically on the recommendation of a soldier who recommended it over sitting.

It was done specifically to air the grievance while specifically respecting the troops.

It's not the method that bothers people, its simply that they are protesting at all.

They started angry, and are back tracking the logic so they can justify it without admitting they simply don't want to think about racism.

[WindAtMyBack]

Only the people doing it know why they are protesting. If they say it is one thing, I have no way of if it's really something else. I just take their word for it.

When I was young, I commonly didn't stand for the national anthem. A lot of other people didn't either. Nobody freaked the fuck out like they do now.

[lightbulb27]

It's a statement that says America isn't working for some people I care about, so I'm letting you all know how I feel.

The solution to that is to move these people to the stadium in a police uniform to uphold law and order or onto the front lines of Korea or in the belly of a submarine so they can get a different perspective.

The perspective is the issue...

[MCheetah]

Other: A display in narcissism and entitlement. Like, you can do whatever you want. Ultimately though, no one has to care. These people only do it though to get attention because they only care about themselves and want to make headlines. The public should then decide whether these arrogant people should continue being rich and famous off their dime, or fade back into obscurity (where I believe they ought to be).

[hahahmm]

Pretty much.

[Sixgunsound]

It’s hollow meaningless virtue signaling. It reaches the point of being pathetic when the person doing it is a spoiled rich kid whose only salable talent would have him making trash collector salary in many other countries for playing a children’s game and chasing other men’s balls.

[Sixgunsound]

If they actually wanted to do something about their issue, be like Pat Tillman, who walked away from the game to fight for his country, and it eventually cost him his life. That’s a true hero, not a privileged, spoiled, raised white whiny man-child who eventually got cut for performance issues anyways. His protests were a stunt to prop up a sagging career, and it didn’t work. He put his team in a bad position of wasting a spot on a guy who sucks that they can’t fire because he just started a race war. That is a spoiled brat having a National tantrum who made himself, his team, his sport, his nation, and half his heritage look bad, just because he had nothing else in the barrel to keep people paying for and paying attention to his selfish desires for fame and fortune. What a sad pathetic excuse for a man.

[Aerissa_Jade]

It depends where it is done, if it is done when someone is getting paid then its against America. If they do it on their own time, then it is against racism.

If they really cared, they would organize rally's and kneel when they are not getting paid.

[TDDMS]

I find that shit retarded. A bunch of rich fucks claiming they are fighting racism, like how? How the fuck are they fighting for racism? It's like BLM, they claimed it was the cops how they were protesting, but instead were burning down cities. If they burned down police stations and took cops hostage, then at least they would be consistent. But these rich ball players. . . fuck them with a shaleighleh stick.

[Massageman]

I stand. And it's a sacrifice because my ankles are darn near shot.
This whole "kneeling for this" and "take a knee for that" has gotten WAY overdone and out of control. There are dozens of ways that their energies could be used to help their supposed "causes", but THAT would take some time And/or some money and too few of them want to give up either.

[Anonymous]

This is a protest against America itself, of course. Let's see what are the things that liberals hate the most?

-White people
-Christianity
-Traditional family (man and woman who are married, live together and have children)
-Guns (except when armed guards protect liberal politicians, celebrities and businessmen)
-manly men and feminine women
-freedom of speech

In other words, liberals hate everything that is perceived by them, and by society as a whole, as "traditionally American." For them, the existence of America as we know it is the reason for everything they perceive as bad. So, racism is just the reason they conveniently use to betray what it means to be liberal these days - the hatred of "traditional America."

[RationalMale]

It's black people protesting that they feel oppressed that White America is enforcing their laws and their sense of morality on black people.

For normies, it's "well cops gotta enforce laws."

Those people see it as if China was trying to enforce Chinese laws in Russia.

[ChillaxingLove]

It isn’t, in fact a veteran suggested he kneel rather then sit because it’s not actually an offensive posture if you think about it.

when you submit to someone you kneel. In football when you yield and don’t want to get tackled you kneel. You also kneel to a king.
kneeling is actually submissive.

that being said cappernick is fake and is clout chasing. Some football players have confirmed this.

[normalice]

You would have to ask the person who is kneeling what they are protesting. They'd probably be happy to explain it, as being heard is the entire point of protests, in general.

But sadly such fact-seeking measures are pretty much non existent in our political discourse.

[tbradley]

im gonna say both just my opinion though but i think if you can't stand for the anthem you should get your ass out of america i had a lot of my family fight for this country and seeing that makes me upset if your in sports doing that shit you should be kicked out for it they make shit loads of money playing ball and we have people fighting for our freedom and they struggle everyday and dont get nothing close to what ball players make which is stupid in my book our military should get paid better and be taken care of before ball players.

[BeMuse]

It's more so a proclamation of total loyalty to the dark enemies of America and the God that watches over our shores. Taking a knee is symbolic of the oaths of fealty they took to their lord. He demands absolute obedience and for slaves like them to be on their knees.