I oppose abortions on demand, so why should I be taxed to fund Planned Parenthood so it can provide free or low cost abortions?

[OlderAndWiser]

I think that abortion is the equivalent of murder and it should not be available on demand for anyone who gets pregnant because they were careless, got pregnant, and don't want to endure the inconvenience of pregnancy. Aside from rape cases, no one FORCED you to get pregnant. You had a choice and you made it. Yes, sometimes decisions based on morality are just that simple.

If you are not aware of it, Planned Parenthood is probaby the largest provider of abortions in the US and it receives substantial federal funding every year. That means that I am being taxed to provide for someone's free abortion when I am conscientiously opposed to abortions. Isn't there something wrong here?

[This question is not about whether you agree with abortion and I do not want any replies that try to argue that question. Simply assume that I oppose abortion and I'm pissed that my tax dollars pay for abortions. If you ignore this paragraph and try to make this your soapbox, I will respond accordingly.]

[Massageman]

I find it "funny" (as in weirdly contradictory, not hilarious ) that the people who are SO OPPOSED to the "murders" (willful killing) committed during war defending our country are SO ACCEPTING of the murder (willful killing) of babies, just to suit their convenience, pocketbook/wallet, or lustful pursuits and polyamorous/polysexual lifestyles. And we have to pay for their "rights"?
No- not right. In fact, RvWade decision was NOT a social comment one way or the other concerning the action of abortion: it was a correction of a jurisdictional error of the original RvW decision. There is absolutely NOTHING in the Constitution that says the federal government gets involved and absolutely NOTHING that defends some mythical "right to abortion". It just isn't there. Period! The SCOTUS finally admitted it blew taking the decision from the states where that decision rightly belongs.

That said, what happened to "conscientious objector" status? Of course, if I got to hold back on taxes for everything all the governments did that I didn't fully endorse, my tax bill would be at least 70% less than it is now.

BTW- modern abortions have murdered more people than all the wars of modern mankind.

And doubly-ironic: Many are torching centers which provide counseling and help for expectant mothers- well, let's just say the "pro-life" centers. These are the same people who are whining, "so now who's going to help the pregnant mothers-to-be?" Duh-uh. Maybe those DESTROYERS might offer to actually HELP at one of these centers instead of demolishing them. Just a thought - - -

[OlderAndWiser]

Candidate for MHO!

[Massageman]

Thank you for the MHO.

[worldscolide]

I am not against abortion, But i am against funding someone else's mistakes. So yeah im against free or low cost tax payer funded abortions.

[DaveJord]

Just another thing in yhe land of the free and home brave, that we no longer have the right and freedom to decide for ourselves. Thats what we have lost, freedom..

I don't personally like abortions myself, but I have decided that for myself. But I don't care much for laws that dictate to people what they got to believe. I hate abortions and there was never any law saying I had to have one, so I had the right and freedom to excerise my beliefs. So today we have taken that right from someone else just because they disagree with us. Thats not good or healthy for the tree of liberty. We stomp on or own freedoms, and act like we are winning and for what? Nothing!

Made no difference to me if a some baby got aborted... you want bitch about the cost of funding clinics... give me a break. Now your going flip the bill for kids, being forced to be born into families that don't want them.. How much in crime, drug abuse, mental health, and blood are willing to pay when kids are born into fuck up families, raised by fuck up drug users, and grow up to be fucked up leeches of society.

You know why crime dropped so drastically in 1990's? ROE vs WADE be came law in 1973. Criminals are most active between ages of 16 to 40. So the fucked up kids of your generation were reaching age of 40 by 1995, and the piece of shit criminal were aborted by what would of been piece of shit parents. So in 20 years, expect to see crime and vilionece boom, when kids thar were forced to be born and raised by piece of shit people react their prime peak of criminal activity and/or do nothing but collect welfare.

Congrats, on you victory in limiting liberty and ensuring there will be plenty of loser yet to come in future generations. God Bless American!😐🇺🇸

[OlderAndWiser]

Your answer is apparently premised on not believing that life begins at conception. If you accept that belief, as I do, the calculus of this matter changes substantially.

[DaveJord]

No its not about that @OlderAndWiser, your making it about that... and therefore you see this as a win.

What its really about is individual rights and freedom. Life a conception is something yoy have right to decide for yourself... choosing to believe that is your right. There was no law saying you had have or promote abortion.

But making something that has been legal for over 50 years, illegal smashes individual freedoms... and you should be terrified by how easy it was to do... dangerous premise has been set.

[OlderAndWiser]

You can focus on the sky falling and I will focus on progress outlawing the murder of unborn children. Neither of us is objectively right or wrng and neither of us is going to change our opinion.

[BeautifulMind59]

I thought you were only concerned about your tax dollars? What happened? Caught lying? I think I will report you to GAG. You are NOT olderandwiser and definitely do not deserve to be an influencer

[19magic]

I'm of the mind people should do what they want whether to keep or abort.

But surely aborting is cheaper tax paying then many years of educational service up to 13 years worth. Then if you think where most unplanned pregnancies come from, they're all people who couldn't give a rat's ass about that kid. They let them run out on streets till all hours of the night, (wasting more tax money on police resources, cleaning services, parol officers etc), then for the rest of their lives they'll be a drain on the system, and just signing on all their lives so a further 60 years of wasted tax money. Then to top that off, they will end up having children who are just like them, who again all waste money just like their parents and grandparents. Then before you know it, you have whole family's on TV who sit at home all day on the dole, in a social house and getting fat eating take outs and crisps. Or on TV saying, my whole family was on the dole right up to my great grandparents, and saying they have to go to food banks cause they have no money. (So a drain and people's goodwill and charity, not just tax money) as they have provodince (don't know the spelling) loans and other loan sharks and bottles of booze, or likely smoke drugs with the dole money.

So that one abortion can save 80 maybe even 200 years of continuous drain on tax payers money. Sure you could argue that person is going to get a good education get an apprenticeship and become a CEO somewhere but only a small minority of people ever breaks the chain (and it's likely their siblings/cousins etc won't).

I mean you work in law, surely most of the people who are guilty come from family's with bad influences. And your saying even more children should be born without love. How many people who are guilty has had good childhoods? I would guess not many, but I don't work in law.

[Jessica405]

Stop all taxes in that case. Pay for all your own services. Police, armed forces, education, roads etc

Taxes are for the benefit of a society as a whole. You cannot pick and chose which services you want to subscribe to or not.

[JustAnj]

Or people could just pay useful societal taxes and have the option to pay taxes to other things.

Like we pay taxes for schools, police, armed forces, education, roads, etc.

But third party taxes would remain optional (that's what I would call them) that would garner no benefits.

I think there is a reason we don't control them, we would all opt out in shit they tax us for that we all do not benefit from.

[monorprise]

But we do, we have Federal and State Constitutions which define not only who gets to do what, but how.

The State Constitution provides for police, education, and most roads, and even the militia parts of the military. Where as the Federal Constitutions only provides for the armed forces and post roads, a concept analogous to the modern interstate.

[JustAnj]

@monoprise

So it all comes down to a people vote? We need to revise some tax stuff then. 😄

[monorprise]

@JustAnj No, it comes down to what was agreed upon in the State and Federal Constitutions in what, where, and how we consent to handle a particular issue.

The Federal Constitutions was written and ratified in 1787 to create only a FEDERAL government of "few and defined" powers of a forign nature.
States Constitutions had already been written and ratified by the people to deal with the vast majority of mostly domestic issues. It was thou them that the Federal Constitution was ratified, and because of them that the Federal Government had no need for almost any domestic powers or law enforcement capability.

Its also because of them that our Federal Government can be designed to work only when all 3 branches agrees it is constitutionally legitimate. Congressional dead-lock is designed to be the main feature of the American system of government not a bug. We can afford this institutional security because we have 2 other levels of government covering all the key day tasks and providing redundancy for emergencies like war.

[DaveJord]

The cost funding plan parent hood... its a bullshit argument, moot piont used by ignorant on the ignorant... you worry about government spending and how they use your tax dollars... give me a break. We are paying all time highs in taxes, and corporations are making all time highs in profits... you going to tell me abortion is what is fucking us? Nope the ignorant feed the ignorant full of ignorant propaganda about meaningless bullshit they being tricked into believing really matters... so that people can think they are winning when everyone is still losing.

[DaveJord]

So abortion is illegal now... we going pay less in taxes? NOPE!!! We sure the hell won't see a drop in taxes and we probably will not get anything more for what do pay.

[OlderAndWiser]

@DaveJord Abortion is not illegal now. It is merely up to the individul states to make that decision. Some will ban abortion and others will not. To somply say "So abortion is illegal now" is misleading.

[DaveJord]

Yeah... okay its not legally protected since you want split hairs

[monorprise]

@OlderAndWiser This is true, and the real point of why this edict was not only correct but the most moderate option. I'm not sure how @DaveJord can not see how that distinction is everything. If women want an abortion they CAN live in a state that permits it. Just like we can live in States that let us defend our homes with lethal force.

This is the beauty of Federalism.

[sgd509]

Let's take a look at how PP gets its money from the federal government first. There are two programs, Title X (10) and Medicaid. Title X has written into its language that its funds may not be used for abortions, full stop, so it's off the proverbial table.

Medicaid is run by the individual states and reimbursed by the federal government for most of its expenses. In 1977 the Hyde Amendment was passed. It prohibits federal Medicaid dollars from being spent on abortions except in the case of rape, incest or to preserve the life of the mother (see ectopic pregnancies, etc). 17 states have expanded the circumstances they will allow Medicaid dollars to be spent for "medically necessary" abortions, and in those cases the federal government doesn't reimburse the state.

Final point I'll make before I cite my sources: Planned Parenthood's funding is primarily spent on healthcare endeavors I think we can all get behind like STD/STI treatment and prevention, cancer screenings and contraception. In 2015, funds spent by PP on abortion services accounted for 3% of their budget. In 2019, the last year I was able to find data, that percentage had not changed.

[sgd509]

It appears my citations were cut off, but this is all easily googled.

[Varanus]

I oppose bombing people in other countries, which I find it morally reprehensible. Should I be taxed to fund bombs and missiles?

Regardless of your opinions on abortion, murdering foreigners, or any other moral objection, the answer should be the same:

Either we should have some control over how the government spends our tax dollars, and this should apply to a range of moral objections, or we should not have any control over it.

Personally, I would support an optional tax form where we could opt out of our personal tax dollars going toward certain things. You couldn't get too specific or we'd end up massively over or under-funding things, but a little bit of control would make people feel a lot less morally conflicted.

[Weapon77]

There's really no good reason any of us should have to pay money because someone else wants to have sex. It's extremely unfair to all the virgins or celebates out there and the elderly people who might not be sexually active anymore.

Each state can decide if they want to legalize abortion now and how to pay for them if so. And they can each choose how early they allow it and under what conditions. This should really be the best outcome since people who really want one should be able to just go to a state that allows it while people who are against it can live in a state that doesn't allow it.

[WindAtMyBack]

Is this tax any different than any other tax? Well, actually it is, but only partly.

I like to go to national parks. Why should someone who has never gone to one have to pay for it? In this case, even if someone doesn't go themselves, I doubt if they are morally opposed to me going.

Somewhere in the middle might be welfare. Some people might be morally opposed to it. But I think for most people who oppose excessive welfare, it's more of a philosophical view on the role of government. It's more than simply not using a service themselves like the national park, but not morally opposed either.

The thing is about abortion, it fits both the morally opposed test, and the philosophical role of government test. The two combined is gong to be a lot of people.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

I agree with you💯
If it takes both a man and a woman for pregnancy to occur, and both were irresponsible in preventing that from occurring, then both parties involved should pay for the abortion, not you or I or any other tax payer, whether they agree with abortion or not.
Except in the case of rape, where not only should the rapist be punished, he should be made to pay fully for the abortion.

[Weapon77]

Exactly. And possibly in cases of incest or danger to the mother or another fetus's life. But those are extremely rsre cases.

In any case, I agree that the real goal should be drastic reform to how we prosecute and punish rape.

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@Weapon77 agreed

[woman_2004]

I agree with this

[mistixs]

Rapists should also pay for the victim's medical bills for any physical injuries or emotional trauma

[Brainsbeforebeauty]

@mistixs agree 💯

[AviatorTom]

Planned Parenthood also provides other helpful and useful services besides abortion. Maybe you can feel good knowing that your tax dollars helps provide those other services.

There are many things the government funds from our taxes that we may not agree with. That's just how the system works in a democratic republic... we individuals give up some of our rights and powers to our elected representatives.

[OlderAndWiser]

I understand the theory; my feelings are emotional, not logical.

[LisaLisa89]

Opposing abortion on demand is obviously a valid viewpoint. I personally don't share your view, and I can understand why you feel you should not be funding it through taxation.
However, we all pay taxes for things we don't like, whether it's abortion, nuclear weapons, education, armed forces, unemployment benefits, immigration control, whatever.
If you were to be excused paying taxes towards abortion then your neighbours might end up paying more for it. That might sound reasonable until they stop paying towards nuclear weapons, and you end up paying more for them.
The problem then would be everyone paying even more taxes to fund the department that works out how much tax each of us should pay, and then we'd all lose.

[Table4YTwo]

What taxes go towards males?

Where is our tax benefits? we so women can run around having risky sex and get cheap/free abortions and what do we get? We don't get as many days off as women per year, we are expected to work more than women for the same pay? and then what?

Women have homes for domestic abuse victims all over the USA and yet Males do not?

Women have so many advantages its insane, like until recently no one even was able to bring up there disparity in divorce courts in how if there's a child or even if there isn't a child women are always favored.

Women can abuse men physically in public and no one stops them but if a man raises his hand in defense he is attacked on sight?

Wheres a government paid facility that helps men paid by taxes? Men should get extremely cheaper therapy, it would seriously help but no we don't. weird

[DaveJord]

@Table4YTwo

I don't know... I think women running around having more risky sex isn't all that bad of a thing.

The rest is mansplaining bull shit... we all know that men get a bad rap and screwed over... thats what makes us men because we can take it without sounding like a bitch.

[Table4YTwo]

@DaveJord Clearly you've never been raped cuz you say that as if its something to be proud of.

[Koneko911]

I mean you have a right to not like it. But abortions should be something a women should be allowed to have. It's not murder. And if you think it is I hope you're also against the death penalty as that's murder... way worse than an abortion when the fetus isn't viable outside of the womb. Women get pregnant also while being on the pill or using a form of contraceptives. They shouldn't be forced to have a child they don't want because the form of birth control they used failed. I don't want kids at all, and I got on the pill for that specific reason. But now that abortions are probably getting banned here in Florida DeSantis also wants to ban birth control in any form, including the pill and condoms. So what the hell are people who don't want kids supposed to do? Not have sex because of they do they get punished by having to be pregnant for 9 months because they couldn't use a condom?

[OlderAndWiser]

Abortion kills an innocent unborn baby. The death penalty kills a guilty adult who has repeatedly deminstrated that they are dangerous to society. There is no comparison between these two.

Yes, I think abortion is murder and I understand that others disagree because that makes abortion much more palatable to them.

Who told you that Ron DeSantis wants to ban birth control? That is FAKE news. FAKE, FAKE, FAKE, FAKE, FAKE news!

[Koneko911]

The news stated he wants that along with banning gay marriage and wait for it sodomy. He's already stated he plans to do those things if he gets his way. But the death penalty kills a person who is alive breathing and has potential as a person. Abortion just takes away a fetus that isn't formed enough yet. During the time women can legally get an abortion it's not developed enough to be viable. It's not murder. It's just taking away the potential for said life. If that's the case we're gonna get to the point swallowing or masturbating is killing life because all those many semen are potentials

[JohnK123]

Well yeah but they know the consequences of sex and what happens if the birth control don’t work… unless they irresponsible or the woman doesn’t care. But then that’s on her and she can’t just say oh whoops I don’t want a kid now

[Blackcosmo]

Oh yes it's murder all right. The fetus has a LIFE whether or not it's fully developed. And if something has a life that is taken away then it's killed. The fact that the fetus is not going to grow anymore is because it's dead which means you killed it. It's common sense honestly. The only time it's acceptable is perhaps rape and if having the child will kill you.

[JohnK123]

@Blackcosmo yep exactly

[Blackcosmo]

I personally don't fully agree on killing a baby from a rapist but I would deem it more acceptable.

[DaveJord]

@OlderAndWiser. I usually get on board with your opinions... and if you believe abortion is murder then thats your opinion and I respect it. But making laws that force your opinions on everyone else under penalty of law... well that destroyes freedom, and limits liberty and peoples right to decide what's best for themselves even if and when you don't think its what's best for you. Thats tyrannical.

We just set back he clock on society and social liberty and individuals rights... pull out the popcorn and prepare for the fireworks because God knows we're this will end and how much more in real taxe dollars it will cost.

[OlderAndWiser]

@DaveJord By that logic, don't laws prohibiting murder impinge upon your personal liberty?

The problem with arguing that matter logically is that most of us have taken our positions on the basis of emotonal reactions, and they are inherently illogical.

[DaveJord]

@OlderAndWiser. I not entertaining false argument or equivalents. Freedom and liberty has been smashed to pieces. We have limited peoples right to choice and decide for themselves what right... on something that's been right and legal for over 50 years... that freedom and right is gone over night with flick of a pen

Yeah this time you can claim victory... but it should scare the living shit out of you. Because that's how easy it is, just like that and its gone. God bless America right?

[OlderAndWiser]

@DaveJord Were you previously unaware of the power of the Supreme Court? This should not be a surprise to anyone.

[DaveJord]

@OlderAndWiser you side step my main piont by throwing unequivlate arguments. Its called distract and deflect... so congrats. 👏

[OlderAndWiser]

@DaveJord The news is not that the Supreme Court has power. The news is that the Supreme Court corrected a fifty year old mistake and allowed individual states to make this decision, and many states will use their legislative power to ban abortions.

Imagine if the Supreme Court had said, fifty years ago, that it's not murder to kill your spouse if you are angry, and finally that stupid decision gets reversed. Yes, you can look at that and say that "oh, the Supreme Court has the power to take away your rights! Wo is me!" or you can say "Thank God they finally corrected their mistake!"

For many of us, abortion is murder and making inroads on banning abortion procedures is a moral victory that far surpasses the issue of the Supreme Court's power to control our lives.

[Bluemax]

Many people believe their taxes are going to things they find morally repugnant. Many found the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to be acts of murder that their taxes were funding.

Individuals don't get to pick and choose which institutions their tax dollars go to. They can only vote for their government representatives who they feel will allocate their taxes best.

[Anonymous]

I think everyone has a right to feel the way they feel, I really try to understand both sides and I think that abortion should be something that is low cost and funded by people that want to, poor people should be focusing on their education as harsh as that sounds not having sex and getting into relationships when you can’t even afford medical expenses.

[OlderAndWiser]

"I think that abortion should be something that is low cost and funded by people that want to," Someone must pay for it, so you think someone else should pay for your abortion?

"poor people should be focusing on their education" That is not a description of the real world.

"as harsh as that sounds not having sex and getting into relationships when you can’t even afford medical expenses." Great idea but it's never gonna happen!

[Opinion Owner]

I think If someone wants to pay for another persons abortion then yes.

Totally agree that my other statements are unrealistic but goes to show the lack of personal responsibility people will take and the cost of ignorance.

[OlderAndWiser]

No one else WANTS to pay for your abortion.

[woman_2004]

Well spoken, I agree with you and I’m heavily against paying for something I don’t support and will not support.. ever!
This goes for a rapist case too (which are rare), I don’t believe a woman should punish an infant for what the rapist did (it’s unfortunate but you can’t blame the baby for coming consequently it’s inevitable). And killing it doesn't make two wrongs right! x

[DaveJord]

So we should stop paying taxes if we disagree how its spent? Or should just pass laws to limit social liberty and individual freedoms because we feel ideologically superior until the day comes that we wake up and find ourselves living in tyrannical society with a branch of government that just throws all norms aside and flips on a dime to smash freedom. And we applaud it as we watch freedom destroyed and act like its a good thing because we are winning. Yeah good piont.

What we learned here is that nothing in America is safe... everything can be taken away with the flick of a pen. Individual rights, freedoms and liberty... we give it up for free and act like we are winning.

[D_Bone_Steak]

I'm pro-abortion, but I feel exactly the same about tax money going to it. Our tax money shouldn't go to that sort of stuff. And whatever happened to responsible sex?

I think it's a grotesque practice, but unwanted babies do end up being unwanted kids. Crime rates eventually started to drop after it became a thing. Unfortunately having unwanted kids for welfare money became a thing as well.

[monorprise]

Planned parenthood claims it spends the money on non-abortion services for "Women's healthcare".

I don't see how that is fair given
A) we never consented to congress spending any money on non-military health care in the Federal constitution, much less discriminate spending it on 1 half of the population and not the other.

B) I think that is nonsense.

[josephinelcajon]

We should not have to pay for another person's mistake! Abortion has become a common contraceptive among our younger generation. Sex is not taken seriously with drunken one-night stands with a stranger meet that night. Terms such as "body county" to identify how many people you have slept with. IF people took it very seriously and responsibly then abortions would rarely happen. And late term should never happen.

[Reaper1985]

the ugly truth about inner cities, planned parenthood and abortion in general. is that they were put in place as a way to control minority birth rates. along with other methods I'm sure.

[DarkWinterNights]

I am pro-life but respected the, safe, legal and rare position many liberals had. The problem is the middle is gone and if I’m forced to support an abortion ban or limitless abortions on demand, I’m going to support a ban. If we want to talk about freedom and equality then we can start talking about how men don’t have reproductive rights.

[NamerOfStars]

Is it just abortion itself you're opposed to? In the name of fairness, Planned Parenthood offers a LOT more services than just abortions. Do you object to those?

[OlderAndWiser]

I dislike the attiude of the organization but I acknowledge that some of their services are very worthwhile. It is only abortion to which I object.