Do you believe we have equality now?

[jasco]

For years we have heard stories about men wanting the child but the mother didn't so she got rid of it. Now abortion is illegal in a lot of areas. ( ofc their are instances where I whole heartly think abortion should be legal, incest, rape etc ). But now men and women no longer get to choose rather they have a kid or not with abortion being illegal. ( note I got this topic from a podcast on tiktok so this isn't what I think, I am just asking if you agree with this or not ).

[Anonymous]

We each have the ability to make sure we and whoever we have sex with use protection.

A lot of this makes no sense to me. How angry people are about it I mean.

If we don’t want a baby, as men, the only way we can ensure that we don’t get a woman pregnant is either by avoiding sex or by using a condom every time. By not having unprotected sex, even if she’s on the pill or whatever. There are women who forget, and sometimes even lie about being on the pill, and if she decides to keep it we have no say at all.

As for a woman aborting a man’s kid when he wants to keep it, I don’t know how that even happens. If a woman is normal, mentally stable, respects you and is into you, she’ll want to keep your kid. I think women abort kids when they’re unhappy in the relationship or don’t respect the dude they’re with. Or they just want to slut it up and not be tied down. What are you doing with such a woman in the first place?

Now women have to think in the same way, not letting losers nut in them.

[Anonymous]

There is no such thing as equality between women and men in the realm of reproductive rights. But what we had before now was extremely one sided. But it's possible to achieve something close to equality in one of two ways.

The first is what we have now that Row has been overturned because neither sex has the right to choice when there is an unwanted pregnancy.

The other way is for both to have a choice. For women that is in the form of an abortion, and for men it is in the form of a financial or paper abortion. He would have to tell the mother he wants one before a certain point in the pregnancy so she can decide whether or not she wants to abort or move forward with the pregnancy and raise the child as a single mother. Of course, that would also require the mother to notify the father of the pregnancy, something that is not legally required today.

Unfortunately, neither women nor men have choice today. Hopefully we can use our current situation as an opportunity to have a discussion about true equality, or at least the closest we can get to it, and get to a place where women have their right to chose again, AND men also have a right to chose.

[Bratsondanielle]

I agree. Especially because with a minimum of brains you can easily avoid getting pregnant. A pill at 7 am during breakfast and you're good. I know people say "my friend had a friend who got preggo anyway " ... well she probably forgot to take it regularly... personally I'm happy we stopped murdering babies here in the greatest country on earth. Let Poland and Sweden do it. No need for it here! Happy 4th 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

[WhitneySnow]

Sometimes bc doesn’t work. It’s not perfect. You can legit get pregnant by accident. And I’m glad abortion is still legal in many states to help girls who find themselves in these situations.

[OlderAndWiser]

Abortion is still legal in many areas and will become a cottage industry in those areas.

Women are still favored in paternity cases. Until a man gets a court determination that he is the father, he has NO enforceable visitation rights.

[Brammer54]

-Roe v Wade would not have been overturned if people stopped fetishizing abortion and instead stuck with "Safe, legal and rare". But no, you just had to go out there and "Shout your abortion", brag about having 40 of them, consider it a moral good, make it the center of womanhood and openly support abortion up until the point if birth (yes you read that right, up until point of birth. Read what former governor Ralph Northam said about it on radio).

You reap what you sow.

-Also, abortion is not made illegal nationwide. The decision to allow abortion is returned back to the states as it was before Roe V Wade.

-Abortion is already allowed in all states in case of rape, incest and if mother's life is in danger.

-You want to make a baby with someone? Marry them first. Don't want to? Use contraceptives.

[Anonymous]

Great question. What we have now is closer to equality than it was before Roe v. Wade was overturned, but until things become more fair in divorce court and child custody, things are still not equal.

I posted a similar question recently and got some interesting responses and exchanges.

Has overturning Roe v. Wade made reproductive rights more fair between men and women?

[NamerOfStars]

Well, in that particular aspect of law, in those places, yes. And even outside of Kansas, the laws passed in the wake of Hermesmann V Seyer show that it's not just a theoretical thing; the danger is very real, if remote. I'd much rather achieve equality by GIVING rights than by taking them away, but it seems that the lack of empathy extends to the point that they won't be given UNTIL they're taken. I hope the world wises up, but I don't think it's very likely.

[Anonymous]

I mean it's sad that we had to get to "equality" by taking away women's rights rather than just granting men the rights they should have had, but now it just sucks equally for both of us.

[Anonymous]

If a woman does not have the right to make decisions about her own body and her own health, but a man does, then that is by definition, unequal.

[Gangactivities911]

Should men have the right to not have kids too if they don’t want them?

[Opinion Owner]

If a woman gets pregnant, and the man doesn’t want the baby, but the woman wants to keep it, then I believe that the man shouldn’t be required to pay child support or any medical bills.

If the woman gets pregnant, and the man wants to keep it, but the woman doesn’t, then the woman should not be forced to carry it or donate her body if she does not want to. If the woman agrees, on equal standing with the man to carry the fetus to term, then once the infant is born, the man should have full responsibility, and the woman should not be required to pay any child support or medical bills.

[Gangactivities911]

I agree. Is it sexist tho that men have not had that right ever and no one really cares?

[Opinion Owner]

A man can say he wants a baby, and he can talk with the woman about the options should she get pregnant (preferably before having sex in the first place), but if at any point the woman decides she no longer wants her body to be used as a host, she has the right to say no and abort. That’s not sexist.

It becomes sexist when women have their right to their own body restricted because of a man’s desire (insinuating that the man’s wants are more valuable than the woman’s).

[Gangactivities911]

What if a man says he doesn’t want a baby and the woman decides last minute she does and asks him to pay child support? That’s unfair to the man right? So why is society discriminating against men?

[Opinion Owner]

That is unfair, and the man should not be required to pay. Unfortunately, the courts are run by largely Christian males who believe that men should be the head of households, and should be supporting wives financially. They also hold the belief that women are not as “good” financially or in the workplace, and therefore need the support of a male partner.

[Gangactivities911]

So this brutal intolerant vicious right wing that u keep calling sexist against women has created laws that discriminated against men? How can that be?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 Okay, so you want to try and put words in my mouth, and while I appreciate the effort, doing so is fallacious and disingenuous to a productive conversation. Please try to be honest in your replies.
1) I never said anything about any political party, nor any wing that individuals may lean against
2) Even if I had done the first point, and brought up a right wing, I never once called them "brutal," "intolerant," or "vicious"
3) The only characteristic I brought up was "Christian males," which you automatically took to mean right-wing leaning, which suggests to me that you are implying that there cannot be left-wing Christian men
4) By doing the above, you also insinuate that I am of the Democratic party and belief, and are going to try and discredit my position merely on the basic that I might follow a different political party, rather than address any actual issues
5) Sexism isn't a one-side only issue. Yes, you can have laws that are sexist against women, and at the same time have laws that are sexist against men. That stems from a judicial system that is largely vocalized through Christian men who promote set gender roles and sexual expectations...

[Gangactivities911]

U said in ur initial reply that u don’t believe we have equality and that there are men at the top who are telling women what to do with their bodies. But I have an example of these same men at the top telling other men what to do with their lives. So how does ur point show that we don’t have equality now? Both genders are being told what to do against there will when it comes to pregnancy and children.

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 Yes, we do not have equality, and I gave an example of that in my first reply.

You are talking about equality in the overarching abstract sense, that if both sexes are being denied certain things, or being treated differently, then the sexes are equal. You are proposing that the equality of inequality, makes everyone equal. But that's not the case. Imagine, as an example, that you have a government that tells two countries go to war: Country A, has a lot of guns, ammunition, and has well-trained soldiers; Country B has no guns, only knives, and soldiers that are basically farmers being paid to kill. Now, both countries are being told to fight, and are equally at war, but then that doesn't mean that they, the countries themselves, are in equal standing.

Any instance where one sex has superficial priority over another, in any case, means that there is inequality.
As well, you are comparing apples to oranges. Saying that forcing a woman to act as a host to a fetus is equivalent to a man being forced to pay child support is unjust and, frankly, untrue. There are inequalities in all categories of life, and those each need to be addressed. I can have special rights that you are denied, and be above you in category A, and you can have special rights that I am denied, and be above me in category B, but that does not mean we are equal, or that our restrictions are equal in measure. And, as simply as I can put it, Not equal = Unequal.

[Gangactivities911]

Half your income for the next 18 years isn’t as bad as 9 months of pregnancy? U wanna give up half of ur income for the next 18 years? Personally I think I might rather go through the pregnancy than lose half my income for the next 18 years and if I’m unable to pay it I can lose my drivers license and even go to jail. Do u want a long list of other things that seem unfair about being a guy in the us right now? Cuz honestly I think men have it worse in developed countries. Maybe life in general favors men, we are bigger and stronger after all but society doesn’t seem to.

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 You literally just described a situation of inequality, and openly admitted that it is unequal... 18 years v. 9 months. As well, you again, are trying to put statements into my mouth that I did not say. This is your second warning, do not do it again.
1) I said that you cannot compare paying child support to forcing a pregnancy, as that is like comparing apples to oranges. They are different concepts and are not on equal footing. I never said that one was worse than the other, and I did not say that anyone deserved either one- if anything, I openly said that I did not support forced payments of child support, just as I do not support forced pregnancies.
You can find things as unfair, that's fine, but you do not get to sit here and make baseless accusations, and you do not get to invalidate the struggle of one side just because some things are wrong for you. There are instances of male sexism, that does not mean that female sexism suddenly becomes invalid or less valuable than male sexism. Both sides need fixing, but you do nothing by sitting here bitching. If you want to see change, promote change- go out and change the world.

[Gangactivities911]

There’s a bunch of unfair things about being a girl and there are a bunch of unfair things about being a guy. Ur saying that society is biased against women right? How can that be the case if men also have a bunch of unfair things to deal with? That’s all I’m asking. I’m not trying to be mean.

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 There are two ways that this can be addressed, looking at it historically, and just as a baseless issue:

Let's start just with no history. Imagine that nothing existed before today, and the world popped up today exactly as it is. We can say that each sex starts off with a score of 0 (no laws against them).
M = 0
F = 0
Now say that 20 sexist biases are added, by a largely male court that favors men over women:
M = -5
F = -15
Looking at this, your argument is that because both sides are being restricted on some means, they are equal. But when you look at the numbers themselves, you see that there are more restrictions (laws that don't favor) on women. -5 does not equal -15, and therefore, the sexes are, by definition, unequal.

Now, that example above was starting out with each sex having a base of 0, and 20 restrictions able to be added anywhere. Historically, societies have been largely patriarchal, with women often punished for actions that men deemed inappropriate or wrong (such as speaking). Today, the U. S. is a lot more equal than it was in the past, largely due to the feminist movements in the early 1900s, but there are still instances of misogynistic sexism, especially in workplaces and in politics, and in different regions (north v. south, east v. west, bible belt v. California, etc.). Historically, we can set the numbers beginning out more like:
M = -5
F = -50
And to make it fit our more modern system, say:
M = -5
F = -20
Now let's take those same 20 laws, put them back as they were same as above, with the same male court that favors men over women.
M = -10
F = -35
As same with the above example, -10 does not equal -35, therefore while both sexes have their own sets of discriminatory factors, they are not equal. They are inequal.

[Opinion Owner]

And, to provide a larger point, our society isn't baseless like the first example. We have had a largely patriarchal history, where women were not considered equal to men. That war example I gave, you have country A, which has had years to prepare and build up power and influence, and then you have country B, which has only recently been given access to speak up and hold their own opinion, and yet you are saying that they should be fighting like they are on equal ground? Is Country A going to be willing to offer some of their weapons to country B to even the playing field?

[Gangactivities911]

But we are at an equal point no? There are lots of unfair things to both men and women. If you’re fighting for equality isn’t that where we are at?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 The idea behind the fight is equal, both sides are fighting for the same thing, but the fight itself is not equal. That is what I'm explaining to you.

[Gangactivities911]

What specifically is so unfair about being a woman that society could change? Like systemic issues?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 I want to make a point, that while we are talking about women here, this also applies to other communities, like non-white races, lgbt folks, etc. Different groups all have different struggles that need to be addressed and fixed.

Society needs more equal representation. The majority of people in power in the U. S. are older, richer, Christian, white men, and they are the ones making the majority of the rules, yet they are somehow supposed to represent every single race, nationality, religion, class, sex, and gender that exists in the U. S? Having more representation for people, especially younger representatives that have had modern educational standards, means that we will have a more even footing in lawmaking, and each side will have a voice.

The indoctrination of children into religious cults should be addressed, per my own reflection. The Christian mythology expressly states that women are to be subservient to their husbands, and promotes inequality amongst a multitude of fronts. A lot of Christian subgroups, especially Catholicism, do not allow women to seek employment outside of the home, and will sometimes prevent girls from gaining an education. Christian schools help limit educational opportunities for girls as well. Islam is another example where women are shamed for their bodies and forced to remain silent and hidden, per their book's command. Sexual education opportunities and access to safe contraceptives should be available to girls, as well as boys, such that teen pregnancies are limited. Abortions should be legal, and women should have the right to own their own body.

These statistics:
https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS

[Gangactivities911]

It sounds like u want equity not equality then right? U want equal outcomes not equal opportunities. Because Right now u can get a scholarship for being black but there is no such scholarship for being white. Is that fair in your opinion? What’s stopping women from entering politics? I mean why couldn’t they run just like any guy could? Are women maybe not as good at certain things as men and vice versa and politics maybe is something that men are better at? And I just want u to know I’m a guy who wears makeup and loves fashion and is fairly feminine, I’m not some old Christian conservative man saying this.

[Gangactivities911]

Men are more likely to be at the extremes of a lot of traits but intelligence is one of them. 3/4ths of geniuses based on iq are men as well as 3/4th of the mentally disabled. The poorest and richest people also tend to be men. Is it fair to only look at men on the top and claim injustice and never look at the men at the bottom? Majority of suicide victims, drug addicts, the homeless, violent crime victims, workplace deaths and lots of other things are also all men. If I complained that society was discriminating against men because of these things Would that be unfair?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 I never said equity, I have used the term equality. I, personally, want everyone to have equal opportunities, the chance to pursue a field that they want to pursue. Do you understand why there are scholarships for certain races/genders/etc? It is because those scholarships help get people to the starting point, of equal opportunity. If you have two people, one of them has a saw, and the other has a needle, and you tell them each to cut down a tree, then those two people do not have an equal opportunity. So what you do is, you give the person with a needle a saw as well, that way that person can participate on equal grounds. It is the same with scholarships like that. A lot of black people live in poorer conditions than white people, and cannot afford collage in the same way that white people can. Taking the situation from above, if one person has $500, and the other person has $50, and you tell them both to go buy as many items from a store as they can, that is not equal opportunity. You get it to the point where both people start off with $500, and then tell them to go. Their outcomes might be different, but they started on equal grounds.

[Opinion Owner]

The fact that you say that shows how little you understand women's struggles. If a woman is able to go through, get her education, and get enough experience to run, then she can. But as I already explained, a lot of this country believes in mythology that puts women as lesser than men, inferior in skill and knowledge, and a lot of people, especially older generations, would not vote for a woman simply on the basis that she is a woman. They believe that men could do better, and so why would they give their money and support to a woman? As well, most men in politics have been there for a long time, they've had influence from family and other politicians, and because politics is a predominantly male scope, would prefer to keep it that way. You also consider the reports of sexual harassment and discrimination that come from politics when women and men are involved, and if you watch the news when this happens, a lot of the media coverage always paints it as the woman's fault, because the man can afford to cover his story, and he has the support to get backing.
Your reasoning there sounds very similar to how people supported slavery and racism: well aren't white people just better than black people, so maybe black people should go into other fields. Maybe if you gave people an equal starting ground, got rid of the harassment and social prejudice...

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 I feel like this is something that would have been obvious in a History 101 course... men have the recorded extremes, men have the money and ability to rise up on display, because for the majority of history men were the only ones allowed to have such influence and power. You are allowed to talk about men's issues, but what you are doing here is trying to discredit women's issues because "Well we have it hard too."

[Gangactivities911]

A lot of people voted for Obama cuz he is black and even openly admitted it a lot of people also voted for Hillary cuz she is a woman. I don't know anyone who voted for trump or Biden just cuz they are white or male, In all fairness is that discrimination against whites and men in your opinion? Cuz it’s supposed to be based on merit and not race right? The vast majority of chess champions, mathematicians, scientists, business people and politicians are men is that because of sexism or maybe men are more interested and better at those tasks than women? Could any sort of mismatch of outcomes be due to biological differences between genders and not due to societal discrimination?

[Opinion Owner]

@Gangactivities911 Not voting for people based on their skin color or sex is discrimination, yes... as I already said. Congrats, you don't know anyone who voted based on race or sex, but I do.

I have already explained this to you, and I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to push this point. Are you that eager to promote women as being weaker or less intelligent? Or are you simply trying to excuse the actions of men in the past and present?

Here is a study that shows biases against women:
www.verywellmind.com/75-percent-of-people-see-men-as-more-intelligent-than-women-5078063

Here's a study that explains that there is no difference in the intelligence levels of men and women:
theconversation.com/men-think-theyre-brighter-than-they-are-and-women-underestimate-their-iq-why-178645

Here's a study that goes into detail about, even though men and women have different brain strengths, our intelligence is equal:
www.science.org/.../study-finds-some-significant-differences-brains-men-and-women

Here's a study on the differences between men and women biologically:
stanmed.stanford.edu/.../...ins-are-different.html

[Gangactivities911]

My point is that sexual and racism can effect white men too. I think women are better than men at a lot of things but I do think men are better at logic based tasks like chess, like math, like science, politics, business etc. not to say men are smarter but I think their brains are more hardwired for these tasks which is why men are over represented in these fields. What do u think about that?

[Anonymous]

For those that say we dont. Name one single legal right that men have that women do not. Just one.. I will wait.

[AlexM007]

No. Not in any way shape or form!

[jasco]

how so?

[AlexM007]

pay, respect, culture, representation

[jasco]

Not talking about all of that, I meant in reproductive rights?