Has overturning Roe v. Wade made reproductive rights more fair between men and women?

[Anonymous]

I have always supported women's right to an abortion, but of course it has always been unfair to men that women have been able to choose not to become a parent but men have not had any choice. And let's be real here... in the vast majority of cases women choose abortion simply because they are not ready to or simply don't want to become a parent, and men have always just had to live with her choice and deal with it.

Now that abortion is no longer a choice for women in many states, both women and men are forced to accept the reality that they will be parents when a pregnancy occurs, which seems much more fair to me.

Thoughts?

Guys - on a related note, would you be more likely to support women's right to choose if they supported ours? I'm referring here to the right to a so called paper abortion.

Updates

1 y

It's sad some women cannot have an honest discussion about this topic. I responded to a female user here with a load of evidence showing she was wrong, and rather than trying to refute any of it, she just deleted everything. I will not name any names, but my mouth was 'agape' when I discovered she had just deleted everything rather than have the courage to respond. Sad indeed.

Updates

1 y

It is of course exceedingly rare for a feminist to actually support men's rights, but there are a tiny handful of exceptions, as evidenced by the feminist whose article is linked below. For those honest women I am grateful. If there were more fair-minded feminists who ACTUALLY supported men too, and not just women, there would be a hell of a lot more men who supported feminism.

www.abc.net.au/.../8049576?nw=0&r=HtmlFragment

[Anonymous]

You had like two women respond, please don't generalize and assume we all think the same way. I definitely think a man should be able to sever parental rights for a child they don't want just as I think a woman should have a choice to be pregnant of not. The only way these things can happen is through activism and legislation and like it or not these feminists know how to organize, though the prolifers are catching up. I understand what your saying, that women should advocate for men's rights, just as some men have advocated for women's rights. I think when both genders work together they can achieve greatness. I'm not a feminist by the way but I do believe in equal treatment under the law, such as the right or refusal to be parents should be equal. We're not there yet.

[Asker]

Thank you very much for your response, and for your honesty and support. I didn't mean to suggest all women are that way because I know they are not. You are evidence of that. I tried to use "some women" everywhere so apologies if I missed it somewhere.

You are right that it takes organization. But it took feminists hundreds of years to get as organized as they are. The problem is that feminism has achieved a great deal of political power and they use it to fight against the men who have been trying for years to organize and gain traction and mainstream support. Try Googling "men's rights advocates and feminism" and you will find thousands of feminist articles in mainstream publications doing everything in their power to discredit MRAs as nothing but a bunch of woman haters. It's true there are a lot of woman haters in the MRA movement... just like there are a lot of man haters in the feminist movement. But feminists are allowed to have a voice and MRAs are not, and the primary reason for that is feminism itself. The standard feminist response to everyday hate from a feminist is to say "she's not a real feminist", but you will never hear one acknowledge the same thing about a woman-hating MRA. It's pure hypocrisy, but that hypocrisy coming from feminism is far more harmful than when it comes from an MRA because they have no credibility, and feminism does everything in its power to keep it that way.

[Asker]

Women have been through a lot over the last century in their fight to achieve equality, and they got a lot of help from countless men in that fight. You would think feminists would want to return the favor given their ostensible goal of gender equality, but that is obviously not the case. Instead, feminism stands in the way of men's fight for equal rights. And the fact is that on this particular subject, the vast majority of women, feminist or not, oppose it too.

The best we men can do right now is to speak out and try to change minds and attitudes, and to try to get support from women. That is what it’s going to take to get any traction. It will never happen without the support of good fair-minded women like yourself. Men’s voices have very little credibility today on issues like this. And every politician, regardless of their party, knows it would be political suicide to take a stand on a men’s rights issue like this one. We need good women like you to speak up and take a stand against women like @Agape93 who stand in the way of fairness.

Anyway, thank you again. I know I speak for most men when I say you are very appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I honestly don’t understand how child abandonment can be considered an
equivalent to abortion.

[Asker]

If a man says he doesn't want to be a father early enough in the pregnancy that the mother can still have an abortion is SHE chooses, she has every right and opportunity to do so and avoid bringing a fatherless child into the world. That has now become HER choice.

Or, she can CHOOSE to have the child knowing she will be raising it as a single mother. At that point it would not be child abandonment... it would be the MOTHER's choice, and her responsibility. If SHE chooses to go ahead with the pregnancy and have the child, SHE will have been the one who CHOSE to bring the child into the world without the support of a father. That is as close to fair as we can get in this matter.

Unfortunately, all of that is moot in many states now that R v. W was overturned. But we should all fight together to change that... AND to change the laws to allow men to have personal autonomy too. But I guarantee you will get more support from men in that fight if you support them as well.

[Opinion Owner]

Allow me to commend you on your presentation. I have heard men make this argument before, but it was never presented so well.
I think….. maybe…. you made some good points and I have reconsidered my position.
My heart always breaks for children who do not have both parents in their lives. My own father doesn’t know much about his family history and has no memory of his biological father. It’s just sad, and that’s what I think about when we talk about a dad being voluntarily absent.
However, if the woman knows well ahead of time that her baby will be fatherless, you’re right, that’s the choice she’s going to have to make. If she’s opposed to abortion, then she really need to consider that when deciding to have sex. It’s almost as if…we should talk to each other before sex. (What am I thinking suggesting such a thing?)
I still believe the other things I have always supported should become a reality as well.
First of all, men should have equal opportunity to be the custodial parent. Mom shouldn’t have to be inept for dad to get custody.
Child support should be very strict and the custodial parent shouldn’t be getting rich off of support payments. I don’t care if dad makes $50 million a year. Child support should be in line with life the parent was living before pregnancy. And the paying parent MUST be able to afford it. None of this bullshit that leaves dad with $200 a month to live on.
Time to even this shit out. All this fighting over children doesn’t do jack shit to help children.
Thank you for your well thought out response. You have done something that has been deemed impossible on the internet.
You have changed my mind.
Cheers 🥂

[Asker]

Thank you so much! I agree with every word you wrote here. I really appreciate your honesty and fair minded views on this, and that you took the time to share them with me. It's uncommon for a woman to be willing to step back from the conventional thinking on these issues and consider a man's perspective on reproductive rights. I wish more would. To make that happed we need people, especially good women like you, to share their perspective with others and help change their hearts and minds. Men still don't have a credible voice in this conversation so the voices of women like you are critically important. There are too many women like @Agape93 whose minds are closed and need to be opened.

Thanks again. I hope you have a great weekend.

[Anonymous]

It’s funny to me how people, especially women, miss the point.

An abortion is different to child abandonment, they’re right in that. If a man abandons a child, the child suffers from a lack of a father and having to live with a struggling single mother. Whereas that doesn’t happen with an abortion.

But that’s not the point.

The point is that if a man gets a woman pregnant and she keeps the baby, and the he complains about having to raise a kid he didn’t want or having to pay child support, they will tell him “tough shit, you should have worn a condom”. They’ll tell him that he should have been responsible and either used birth control or not had sex.

Now women have to do the same thing, and that’s what they’re mad about.

I think that restricting access to abortion is a bad thing, but I don’t feel that strongly about it for that reason. I don’t feel sorry for women having to be careful just like I have to be if I don’t want a kid.

[Asker]

Exactly. Well said!

[Avicenna]

The question about a paper abortion is a good one. I don't think that the two issues should be linked, and there should be the option for both.

[Asker]

I agree that there should be an option for both, but the fact is women were happy with the status quo before R v W was overturned because they held all the rights and choices and men had none. They had no reason to care about men's rights, and they obviously showed they didn't care.

Now that they have lost that power, I think it's the best opportunity we have had in decades to have an honest discussion about reproductive rights for BOTH sexes. Women complained a lot in the weeks leading up to the Supreme Court decision that they needed men more than ever to be their allies and to help them in their fight to retain their reproductive rights, but they have been completely MIA in the fight for men's rights for 5 decades now. If they want men to be their allies, it's time they stepped up and started being allies to men.

Now is the time to shine a light on that hypocrisy. I am all for helping women regain their right to reproductive choice, but ONLY if they help us achieve ours. Otherwise, they can piss off as far as I'm concerned.

[Avicenna]

I agree completely. Yours is a thoughtful solution.

[Asker]

Cheers brother

[Anonymous]

We need as much population control as we can get right now and this is going to royally fuck that up.

[Asker]

Doesn't answer the question but thanks.

[Opinion Owner]

I don’t think it’s made things more fair. I think it’s made things more troublesome for both men and women.

[Asker]

It has certainly made things more troublesome for women, but the issue has always been troublesome for men. Please read my response to Avicenna for more detail. I'm interested in your thoughts on it.

[Agape93]

Nope. Remove your bodily autonomy and have threats of murder charges for medical choices, then we can talk.