Like even I whom would never abort her own baby under any circumstance would still never force another woman to carry her own if she doesn’t want to. It’s all about choice. Just because I would keep mine doesn’t mean another women is wrong for aborting hers.
It’s a very personal decision which only the mother can decide on. And whatever choice she decides is neither right or wrong in a general sense. It’s her own personal choice no one else’s.
The problem being that one decision is a choice. A million decisions is a cultural movement with profound cultural, sociological and practical implications.
The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.
A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.
We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)
Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.
This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.
Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.
Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.
To play devil's advocate here, the case could be made she already made her 'choice' by choosing to engage in sexual activities that led to getting pregnant. I'm not anti-abortion (at least not early-stage), but I don't think it's healthy to just assume as a society that women just magically get a baby growing inside them, with the woman's choices having nothing to do with how she got to this point. Yes I know rapes and incest and whatnot are exceptions to the rule, but pregnancy doesn't just happen by miracle, its the predictable end result of unprotected sex. Maybe if the quality of sex education -- and general culture of wanton, indiscriminate promiscuity -- were mediated at a cultural level (not "eliminated", just approached more thoughtfully and appropriately), then we might see less women being put in this Sophie's Choice situation to begin with. But I also don't think casual sex is inherently bad, but it should be at least part of the conversation around what "choices" a woman has not just DURING pregnancy, but BEFORE pregnancy too, as pregnancy doesn't just occur in a vacuum.
I think that people who align with the GOP on their voter registration should automatically be enrolled to adopt & foster the unwanted kids.
A teenager without guardians was told she couldn't make the medical decisions for herself, but will be forced to make those decisions for her offspring.
A fucking KID was told that she would have to carry her rapists baby to term, which would have caused her major health complications because her body can't handle delivery yet
Women are being told that they have to carry fetuses without skills to term
Women who go into labor early & don't expell the fetus are being told they can't have an abortion until there is no fetal heart beat, even though the fetus will die in the womb & can cause the woman to develope major health complications, lose her uterus or die.
Fuck every Pro-Birthers, I hope their family never has a rape victim, have someone nearly die from being pregnant & so forth.
I agree. Abortion is not murder. The fetus inside the woman isn't even aware of what's going on. I hate how pro-life people keep exaggerating over this.
Opinion
47Opinion
Because use prolifers actually believe it’s murder to kill an unborn child.
women of course still have choices even if you take abortion away.
1 birth control (Catholics will disagree with me on this one)
2 adoption for ever unwanted baby born there are 33 couples who want that child who can’t give birth by there own means.
3 don’t have sex, sex is primarily for reproduction and the idea of sex is to bring a child into this world.
the only thing we don’t want is women to murder there own unborn children. Bill Maher probably had the most coherent understanding of this issue.
also just out of curiosity how can you say you will never get an abortion yourself because you realize that the unborn child is alive any yet say that women have the right to kill that unborn child?
video skip to about 2:30 because I’m sure you don’t want to hear a right wing political commentator the main point is to show what Bill Maher said if you want to watch all of it go ahead
Just because you wouldn't murder your own child inside your womb doesn't mean other women should have the right to? Hmm, ok.
Look, it's a a purely ideological issue. You don't understand why people feel the need to protect human lives, born or unborn, just like they don't understand why you don't recognize that it's a human life growing inside a woman that is completely helpless and has no one to protect it except his or her mother, and when she won't do it, the law. That's an important part of law... protecting people.
How would you feel if someone advocated for killing homeless people because they have no potential? How would you feel about someone who thought it was ok to kill autistic children because they have no potential? Don't you think they deserve someone looking out for them and protecting their lives?
These people you don't understand see the issue of abortion the same way. They see abortion as killing a helpless human who has no one looking out for them. You may not understand them, but if you understand why people feel the lives of homeless and autistic people deserve to be protected, maybe you need to reconsider your position on abortion. Does that help answer your question?
"It’s a very personal decision which only the mother can decide on" Really? Would you say the same thing about a mother's decision about whether she should kill the child she gave birth to a few days ago? Is that something only the mother can decide? I hope you don't think so, because if you do that makes you a monster. And if you don't why exactly is it different? Think about that.
These are decisions made politically by old men who have no concept of women's rights or independence. The religious books they quote and interpret in the literal sense often tar them with the same brush. It's frankly disgusting.
Also, there's the aspect of economics. If a mother is unable to barely feed and clothe herself, then what kind of upbringing will the baby get? And what kind of life will the mother have? Both are the same answer- almost impossible.
These same lawmakers are making decisions based on personal preference and not the economics or the ethical sides of it. So if they're insistent that women must carry to term even in the event of rape? Fine. Then the government needs to ensure adequate monetary support and security to do this.
But they won't as they're profoundly deaf to the normal lives of people, I'm afraid 😔
I suspect you understand just fine. By pretending that there is no question at all about who is a human and when, you just skip over the very real objection that it isn’t “your personal choice” to kill a defenseless child. I get it that you don’t believe an unborn child is alive (or whatever you believe on the subject). It is disingenuous, though, to pretend that you can’t understand would object to the discretionary killing of a baby. I think you understand that objection just fine. If you pretend that no one believes an unborn baby is a human child, then you can act like, “totally, who wouldn’t be all about choice? am-i-right?”
It's fuck all to do with "choice," everything to do with consequences.
If you were to walk onto your neighbours lawn repeatedly, and get shot in the process, then it would be your fault rather than theirs as they repeatedly warned you. You knew the consequences and what would happen but were either ignorant or being mendacious.
Obviously abortion is not so clean cut (pun not intended). But pro abortion people are going on like it's some sort of random act, over which women had no control, but must have no consequences.
A, because they think it is murder (so all aborters should be put to death).
B, they think abortion can only happen with the help of modern medicine, when in fact women have been doing this or at least trying to do this since forever, so the question isn't or at least certainly should not be 'should abortion be legal but rather should abortion be safe'.
C, they (pro lifers) can't grasp the fact that this is a lesser of 2 evils situation and just can't see how awful their position is (they are almost, if not, exclusively all religious nuts).
I don't understand how you can completely ignore and disregard the rights of the baby in declaring the unilateral choice to end its life "personal" to one party.
Is not the baby a person with its own unique Human DNA requiring only food and shelter like the rest of us?
Or do you simply support the right to kill other people who by circumstances of the killer's choice became an inconvenience to said killer?
If so why do women get this special right and not everyone?
Well, it's simple.
We don't like killing babies
Especially even more so when the woman could have prevented it (except rape).
Life is precious to us
Also, we don't like killing babies.
I wouldn't want to vote this in to be legal because I just think it's wrong and more women should make better decisions with their bodies BEFOREHAND and hold themselves accountable.
Some people feel abortion is murder.
If a state wishes to ban abortion they are free to do so. In honor of the feminists who used to use "its not your body so you can't complain" tomshut up men who complained about abortions in the past, I'm certainly not going to say a negative word about the abortion ban. And in honor of feminists wish for equality, I will do them the favor of considering anything negative said about members of SCOTUS to be just as acceptable to say about feminists, for the sake of equality
I do not understand a person who is capable of making an unrighteous first kill of a baby that can no make a choice on its own. Person who would you their womb as a Hitlerian Gas Chamber exterminating life. Abortionist have Genocide more people than Hitler and Stalin combined.
So I think they must not understand basic science. Each fluid contains full genetic code (Helix), therefore there is Identity. They meet in womb conjoin and form life. In two weeks heart is formed and beating. Heart is beating 60 plus beats a minute before most people know they are pregnant...25th Day !! Surely, if a genocidal maniac knows this... that the Abortionist will stop killing a defenseless human that they are supposed to be feeding and protecting...
Its about protecting an innocent life and people taking responsibility for their actions. Our society murders for convenience. Our lack of empathy and disregard for life has damaged the fabric of society and I believe this is one of the reasons it’s collapsing.
They don't understand that a fetus about to be aborted has no potential.
Exactly! What about the eggs that fail to implant? Why no protect them?
I thought life at contraception was sacred to them.
A fetus has no potential? Really?
What was your excuse for squeaking by then?
@Agagagagaga Y’all focus so much on a potential instead of the actual (aka the mother). The mother’s well being is way more important than a zygote’s.
@WonderBell99 If only the mother had the foresight to know that sex results in pregnancy. 🤷♂️
@Agagagagaga Sex requires a penis too, not only a vagina. 🙄
@WonderBell99 Yes. And? What’s your point?
@Agagagagaga It’s not only the woman’s responsibility.
@WonderBell99 Yes. Which is why both people should ensure that contraception is used. 🤷♂️
@Agagagagaga You do realize that contraception is not always 100% effective, right?
@WonderBell99 oh boy, it’s the “not 100%” crowd.
What the fuck is? Seriously. What the fuck IS100% effective in life?
@Agagagagaga oh boy, NOT the pro-life crowd. 🙄
Making abortions illegal is asinine af.
@WonderBell99 I’m pro-baby murder by the way. Because I hate people and the less the better.
BUT TAKE SOME GODDAMN RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS. Damn!
Some people just believe they have the right to tell others what to do with there own personal bodies.
The single dividing point of the abortion argument is: Is the fetus alive/when can the fetus be considered alive? I myself support abortion under the notion of "safe, legal, rare" but I fully understand that there are people who at their very core believe life starts at conception and that means abortion is murdering a human being. If you put yourself in thier shoes with that in mind of course they'd oppose murder.
im conflicted. i try to be a good person and would do everything in my power to prevent a murder, but in this case i think the world is better off that the people murdering their children are doing so and only wish they in turn would also die in the process.
I’m against foeticide, as foetuses are sentient and do have feelings. Quite wrong to murder them, but abortion right after a woman realised her pregnancy should be OK, as then the embryo doesn’t have a brain yet, I think. If a woman doesn’t want babies, she shouldn’t have sex. If she got raped (is that common, by the way?), she can take the pill as soon as possible.
I do say to people with this dumb ass half ass topic. Maybe u need to have a kid, in order to have a actual opinion. Ur argument is irrelevant and counter-intuitive. You aren't an aborted child. But if your parents had the right to abortion like people want rights to be. All of your opinions and regurgitating talking points would be silence.
I agree, my mom told me if it wasn't for my 2 older siblings, my dad and her parents and the fact she didn't know I was going to be so ugly, she would've aborted me if she knew I was going to be ugly, she also said she felt pressured to keep me because she didn't want to be known for giving up the ugly 3rd child and continue to have a couple more. I also told her I wish she would've just done it anyways.
Damn. Sorry for you bro (Unless you hate that)
@AssholeNumberOne don't be sorry, I'm not. She open my eyes to the world. What's the phrase " a face only a mother could love" she showed me that if a mother thinks her own kids face is to ugly to show that kid love, no one else will, took me into adulthood to finally understand that lesson but I did. So there's nothing to apologize for.
Thanks for the kind response.
It’s really about controlling women. They use abortion as an excuse.
Yah cuz of making abortion illegal is wrong were going to see more parents fiinv there daughters at young age protect them from accidental pregnancy an I feel a girl who is raoed or molested should be able to get abortion even when a kid is going to be so bad off that letting them be born is wrong an now there forcing these females to have bad off kids Sept here in ca
Well I think the father should either get some say or have the right not be a part of the kids life, but yes I am pro choice.
If they kids so much they could go adopt some orphans, but we know they won't.
So just kill the baby if you find it inconvenient?
A 6 week embryo isn’t a new born. It’s not complicated.
So is bacteria, so is a fertilised egg that doesn’t attach, so are millions of sperm that die, so are weeds, so are ants yet they don’t seem to matter as much do they.
Define inconvenient.
If the baby's a hindrance to my career, you damn right I'll get rid of it. It's inconvenient.
Well, I think their view is pretty understandable. It is a woman's job to have babies.
Look I love babies but it’s not my job to have them. I have them because I want to not because I have too.
I am just the messenger. They view women as baby makers.
So you don't believe in your right to live? If I decide you should die are you OK with that?
There’s a difference between a being with a sense of self and consciousness and a zygote that has no conscious, will or sense of self.
Dude where the fuck are you going with this?
If you can’t tell the difference between a sentient life and a non sentient life I don’t know what to tell you.
Why do people keep posting things like this? It is very triggering for some people. Whether you are with or against abortions seriously keep it private.
You got a point. Some kinds of questions almost always end in a fight. Just like "Do you believe in God?"
Would it be okay for a mother to murder her baby after it was born because she doesn't want a baby?
That isn’t a thing. Don’t use strawman arguments.
Don’t use strawman argument = thats an argument I can't respond to.
If it is okay to murder a child before it is born, why isn't it okay after its born?
Pro-birthers (though I prefer to call them birth-frocers) argue that a fertilized egg should have more rights than the women carrying it. That's how batshit crazy these people are.
I wish people could just keep their legs closed/wear a condom if they don’t want a baby. Ut for some reason we had over 64+ million abortions since roe v wade, which is more than a quarter of American population, not including illegals.
Agree!
u Because the object of an abortion is not the woman, but the child inside her.
@StormMistress that's pretty much the answer short and sweet. I stay out of political stuff but I imagine that is how they would think.
I always find it odd that the same people who are anti womens choice, are the same people known for ignoring the child once it arrives and is Brown or black.
And I just don’t understand people who can’t use contraception.
🤷♂️
It’s not 100% effective you know.
What is?
Hand washing isn’t 100% effective at preventing infection. Gonna stop washing your hands? I know, just chop them off. 🙄
What I mean is just because you use contraception doesn’t mean you are guaranteed not to get pregnant. And women who do have the right to chose not to have it since they didn’t want a baby in the first place.
@StormMistress It's pretty close to 100% if you use a condom AND the Pill. If one fails you have a back-up plan.
@Daniela1982 Don’t bother. They don’t want to accept any responsibility for their sex lives.
I know most of the women who get it aren't smart like you. And we don't need any dumb and poor people reproducing.
Then you oppose babies right to life.
Fetus is already a different life as it has a different DNA than mother or father.
i find questions like this comical. pro life, pro choice i do not care. You can all burn in your respective hells for all i care.. Neither of you value life at all.
Well as I say the possible father should have a choice, granted he didn't roll out before the first trimester.. I say abort long before!
when planned parent hood started aborting 9 month pregnant babies and selling the organs and fetuses it become a problem. It stopped being about a womens right to chose.
That isn’t a thing. 89% of abortions happen in the first 12 weeks, 98% in the first 20 weeks.
It sure is...
I don't understand how both sides are blind to the others point of view
its the same people who try and force their religion on u
IF you don’t want to carry a baby, don’t get pregnant. You don’t get pregnant by magic.
They are the same people who are against a mom drowning her 1 year old baby
That's like saying if you think slavery is wrong, then don't own a slave. Just because I don't want a slave doesn't mean that you can't have a slave. It's all about choice. Nothing is right or wrong in a general sense.
How would you like it if you would’ve been aborted without any say in the matter?
Well considering I wouldn’t have existed I don’t think I would have had an opinion lol.
I'd have preferred it that way
@anon1903 damn. Lol that’s cold
why do you deserve that much choice? it's only 9 months your free time is not that valuable
You spelled "don't murder children wrong"
And learn to swallow
We thought Hilter was so bad and he was really bad then who are we to say we have a choice, our choice is not to have sex
Because Murder is Murder. When you condone sin, you take that sin upon yourself and stain your soul with it.
It’s all about choice? Who's choice? Certainly not the baby's.
*who.
the use of "whom" is incorrect there.
What about all my sperm I wasted masturbating? Did they have a chance, lol
Exactly! You understand it.
abortion is killinh an innocent human beinh
They're not pro birth
They're pro white
Unborn children have a right to life.
Religion. They think the fetus has a soul.
Abortion is murder.
So is male masturbation so you better stop because you’re murdering millions of potential babies.
@StormMistress
That statement is absurd.
A sperm cell is not a baby.
When a woman kills her own baby for convenience, that tells a man everything that he needs to know about her.
But the sperm and the egg don't get together with masturbation.
They’re still potential life are they not. A zygote is exactly the same. Potential life.
I'm with you
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