Do you believe victims of violent crime bare some responsibility?

[blissinanarchy1]

So this question is inspired by the infamous Andrew Tate’s opinion that women bare some responsibility in sexual assault. On the surface level, he’s saying “It is partially your fault you got raped.” I don’t believe that being a victim of any violent crime, regardless if sexual in nature or not, is the victim’s fault.

HOWEVER. I do have a slight spin on his opinion. I do believe there are choices you make that make an outcome more or less likely.

If you’re out at night, wearing expensive jewelry, on your phone not paying attention, in a not lit area, do you think it is more or less likely an attempt to rob you is made? Do you think the chance of a robbery attempt is lower if you’re paying attention, in a lit area, not wearing expensive jewelry?

If you have a gun on your passenger seat, and you run into the store, car unlocked, and your gun gets stolen, do you think it is more or less likely to be stolen, than if you had it on your person, concealed on your waistband?

If you are a female, wearing very revealing clothing, highlighting your physical assets, do you think it is more or less likely that a sexual assault attempt is made?

In each of these situations, there were risk factors that made it much more likely that a crime against you would happen. The preventative measures would make the crime much less likely, but REMEMBER. It still could’ve happened. The person committing the crime against you is the sole being that consciously made that decision to commit that crime. He or she is responsible for their own actions. I understand people who say “we shouldn’t live in a world where I have to take preventative measures to lower the possibility of a crime. The criminals need to learn to leave us alone.” Well, it’d be nice, but it’s ideological thinking. That sadly isn’t the world we live in.

[hahahmm]

It's complicated today because I could say, "if you do something a reasonable person knows to be foolish then you are being foolish and partially to blame for the consequences" BUT in today's world there are a lot of unreasonable people with foolish expectations so they can't comprehend or discern when something is foolish or not. I'm a traditional man. From my POV it's obvious that if a woman goes jogging alone at 4AM she is inviting trouble. That doesn't mean I think that if a guy attacks her he's innocent. It just means she's like someone who jumps into the lion's den at the zoo for a jog... assuming the lion is sleeping. Except we have social standards & laws that say the "lion" is guilty if he pounces. Feminists like to claim that they're entitled to do whatever they wish to without being harmed. To me it's like someone thinking they can speak magic words and those words will keep wild animals from attacking them. Even tho 99% of men aren't wild animals, some are. We can't guarantee your safety. Nor would I waste my time trying to if you want to go jogging at 4AM when I'm sleeping.

But it's easy to believe/claim that you don't have any personal responsibility at all and if anything goes wrong you have zero responsibility.

Feminists want "freedom" from being loyal to a man so it's understandable that they don't want to think they need a male bodyguard. But in places like Brazil it's common for even special forces military dudes not to go out alone. They go out in armed packs of 9+ before they even feel safe. Yet you have these small women who can't even fight off teenaged boys claiming they're untouchable and it's 'sexist' or 'toxic' to suggest otherwise? They've started believing all of the propaganda they see in tv & movies that tells them a little woman can beat up a man when the reality is that almost all men can wreck a woman with one hand tied behind his back.

If you look at victims of domestic violence, it's almost always someone who chooses to stay in a bad situation. People who were raised right/properly socialized know how to deal with the bad guy/woman and nip trouble in the bud early on or leave. Again, this doesn't mean the attacker is blameless/innocent. Just that if you don't want bad things to happen to yourself you'd be wise to stop going through life acting like it's a random stranger's job to protect you or believing that the cops will save you.

[JamesDiaz11]

I began my university education studying Criminology, and the fact of the matter is, for most crimes, the greater the severity of the offense, (typically) the greater influence the victim had in it.

This is why those who carry firearms are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime- they put themselves in situations where those without a firearm would not.

Sexual assault is comprise of all matter of interactions, the small minority of which is rape, a minority of that "forcible rape." If a girl is in a club, dressed provocatively, dancing provocatively, and a guy dances up on her, touches her butt, etc. this can be considered sexual assault. If a girl drinks excessively around guys, starts chatting with one, goes to his room, and sex happens when she would have stopped herself sober- this can be considered sexual assault/ rape. In each of these cases what would be considered the "victim" put themselves in a situation, and did things that made what happened far more likely.

This isn't blaming the victim, it's acknowledging that you accepted risk to do what you wanted to do, and something bad happened that otherwise would not have. This doesn't categorize all sexual assaults, as it can happen to people in their homes, or when they're children- in which case they bare no responsibility. But just in the same way that rape/ incest is a minority (<1%) of abortions, these are not the majority of cases.

[LazerBean]

I personally think that saying there is nothing women can do to empower ourselves, protect ourselves, and reduce our risks for being rape, it is extremely sexist.

It makes us out to be a weak, helpless, and generally stupid gender that the opposite sex can do whatever they want with if they feel like.

So no, a woman is not at fault for her own rape. But many rapes could have been prevented by being armed, and / or not going to places that we KNOW predators flock to.

[blissinanarchy1]

Love this, you’ll prob get the mho

[suzzieQ]

Statistically... the majority of sexual predators are someone the victim knows and trusts..

[LazerBean]

14% of rapes are by a stranger, and 50% are by an acquaintance.

www.cdc.gov/.../NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf

[blissinanarchy1]

I could’ve sworn I posted the same thing minus the sources but I don’t see it. I agree 100%.

[suzzieQ]

According to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center About half (51.1%) of female victims of rape reported being raped by an intimate partner and 40.8% by an acquaintance.
https:// www. nsvrc. org/statistics

[LazerBean]

So there a 10% difference. I tend to trust a government source more, but even if your statistic is right that's still nearly half of rape cases involving someone that the female had no reason to trust.

[suzzieQ]

I assume that you would trust the people that you know not to rape you...

[LazerBean]

Why would I assume that just because I met someone a few times, or maybe even just once, that I should trust them and allow myself in a situation where they could hurt me? That would be, quite frankly, extremely stupid.

[suzzieQ]

They could hurt you in any situation. It’s not like most rapes are happening behind a dumpster in an alley.

[LazerBean]

Are you wanting to drop a statistic on where most rapes committed by acquaintances are being committed, then? Because to my knowledge I've never heard of a woman being raped in the middle of a walmart, or on a gas station counter. So if that is in fact happening somewhere then please enlighten us to the data.

[suzzieQ]

Bo most rapes happen in or close to home

[suzzieQ]

How ever I would assume that you have heard about the woman who was raped on a Subway, tons of stories about fathers, uncles, pastors, polices officers and priests… people we should be able to trust..

[LazerBean]

Since children to not bare any responsibility, we are speaking of adults. And no I have not heard many stories at all about uncle's raping a full grown adult neice. Feel free to drop a statistic on that though. I also have not heard of any women being raped on a subway when they were carrying a gun.

[acooke-13]

In most cases, women who are targeted for rape aren't even wearing revealing clothing, which is proved in so many cases. These types of men do not care if you're wearing a skirt or joggers, they are going to set out to do what they want to do. The same with robbers, they don't care what the house looks like, they're going to try any and all of the door handles.

[blissinanarchy1]

So can I see some statistics or evidence that proves your case?

[suzzieQ]

@blissinanarchy1
https: //www. washingtonpost. com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/10/the-persistent-myth-that-revealing-clothing-leads-to-rape/

https: //today. tamu. edu/2019/11/19/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit-explores-sexual-violence-myth/

https: //www. cdc. gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/riskprotectivefactors. html

https: //pubmed. ncbi. nlm. nih. gov /16455857/

[blissinanarchy1]

@suzzieQ I’ll read one by one and comment. Washington Post has no statistics other than 6 out of 10 women believe wearing revealing clothing leads to trouble. Washington post makes a claim without evidence, same as you. On to the next.

[blissinanarchy1]

Again, on the Today one. No statistics, nothing. Just a statement both women wearing revealing clothing and normal clothing get raped, which I never disputed.

[blissinanarchy1]

CDC doesn’t address clothing at all. You can actually argue that since you say “The only one at fault is the suspect no matter what” Then the preventative measures and factors the CDC list are invalid to you. On to the last one.

[blissinanarchy1]

And your last one is a random ass link about drug screening for brain metastasis, like that has anything to do with this.

[acooke-13]

@blissinanarchy1 I've wasted a lot of my time arguing with Americans, I'm not about to waste some more. Do your own research (statistics may be different since I'm not in the USA) :)

[blissinanarchy1]

So why are you using American statistics then? Sounds like an easy cop out to avoid admitting you’re wrong. You say statistics might be different for americans but used American statistics

[Agagagagaga]

@acooke-13 So how about you STFU and stop talking to Americans? We don’t want to hear what you have to say anyways. You don’t matter. You’re not a citizen here. Your opinion means dick.

[acooke-13]

@blissinanarchy1 Literally do some research, you might learn something :)

[acooke-13]

@Agagagagaga Why are you so triggered? I love talking to Americans though, it makes me feel intelligent.

[Agagagagaga]

Why am I so triggered? Because I see people on this site shit talking America and Americans INCESSANTLY.

But I’m not allowed to do the same. I just have to sit back and listen to goddamn Brits and Aussies and Canadians and everyone else under the sun.

And if I just go “Fuck Great Britain. You’re a country of hypocrites.”

My comment gets removed.

🤷‍♂️

[suzzieQ]

As an American, I can say, the most of the shit America gets is well deserved.

[acooke-13]

@Agagagagaga Please see the below comment from Suzzie. But I agree with you, fuck GB, that's why I moved out of there.

[Agagagagaga]

It’s not even that. It’s just ridiculous of me that we see post after post, comment after comment calling Americans stupid, racist, uncouth, rude, violent, blah blah fucking blah.

And if I say, you know what? I think Haitians are barbaric third worlders from a corrupt and violent nation, that’s a no-no.

We’re only allowed to shit on America on GaG. Maybe it’s all the goddamn Brits and Eurotrash and Indians and Turks here. Hell if I know, but I’m goddamn sick of the double fucking standards.

[suzzieQ]

@Agagagagaga maybe try being a decent human being

[acooke-13]

@Agagagagaga It's called a stereotype, every country has them. Americans are known for being dumb, self centered, uneducated etc. Brits are known for having wonky teeth, being arrogant, drinking too much. Suck it up cupcake because it's not going to change.

[MzAsh]

Nope. Doesn’t matter what you do or how you dress, you’re not responsible for the crimes against you.

[Datboi65]

I come from a middle-class family and there are certain areas in town I would avoid even if they were a shortcut, because I know what can happen.

The point of this argument isn't that these people "deserve" what happened to them, because nobody deserves it. The point is that prevention is better than cure. You should've known better. Don't try to be naive until it's too late, take the precautions that will prevent such actions from happening, rather than being too damn worried about making the world a better place.

Last time I checked, the average life expectancy was 76 years, so even if you set up on a mission to do that, it won't happen in your lifetime, so work with what you have and don't fall prey to situations that you can prevent.

[Guy13]

Common sense says if rape or sexual assault is a concern that the individual would dress modestly. It fits, otherwise, it is clear that looking hot…or junk out everywhere…or attention seeking is more important than common sense dress and safeguards that come with it. 🤷🏻‍♂️ I like common sense and one should expect to receive consequences in accordance to behaviors…. It is life whether it be work, social, and/or personal.

[UCrayCray]

Is that why women who wear burkas are never raped?

[suzzieQ]

Is that why children are never raped?

[suzzieQ]

It’s people like that are the problem, not what a 6 year old is wearing

[Twalli]

You can create a situation where you are at higher risk, like the issue with Trayvon Martin. After being told he did not need to follow or do anything to Trayvon by the police, George Zimmerman still chose to approach him and grab onto him. Trayvon's reaction is what would happen if anyone was grabbed in that way. Zimmerman put himself in the position where he would probably be beaten up and then shot someone after willingly and unnecessiarly putting himself in that situation.

[Anonymous]

Yes, obviously. That's not to say there is ever an excuse for a man forcibly raping a woman. But if a woman gets super drunk and comes on to a sober man and willingly has sex with him, legally he is guilty of rape but she obviously has some responsibility. There are other scenarios too where a woman who gets raped is not without responsibility.

[suzzieQ]

Absolutely not. A person does not bear any responsibility for the actions of another.

[suzzieQ]

that's like saying that a husband bears the responsibility for being cheated on...
Or like saying that a student that gets shot in a school shooting bears the responsibility for being shot...
Or that a men on his way home bears the responsibility for getting hit by a drunk driver...

[blissinanarchy1]

No, not really. What preventative measures would you take to avoiding a wife cheat? Or a drunk driver? It’s not measures being used to negate a risk that doesn’t control another’s behavior. The preventative measures in the other cases aren’t so impactful in your life that it disrupts it severely. There’s a difference between paying attention to your surroundings, and not have your tits out…. and not driving at all or controlling your wife 24/7. It’s not comparable. And the kid fighting is a bad example. If he wouldn’t fight, he is much less likely to get shot.

[suzzieQ]

Men have their tits out all the time... and some how women manage not to rape them... it has nothing to do with clothing and everything with a sense of entitlement and men feeling like they can blame their actions on a women just because she's a woman.

[blissinanarchy1]

Okay. Terrible argument. The man’s breast isn’t sexualized, it is a very uncommon fetish if it is. Men and women are both attracted to physical assets on a subconscious level. Straight men are attracted to tits and sexualize them, it’s in their nature. straight women aren’t.

[suzzieQ]

So you’re saying that women should be responsible for what men do because men don’t have enough self control not so sexually harass or sexually assault women….. you know maybe the problem isn’t what women wear, maybe the problem is sexual predators, this horrible mentality that if a girl is sexually assault, you justify that assault by saying it her fault that someone did something terrible, just because she should have known better than to wear something that a man might find attractive.

[blissinanarchy1]

No. If you could comprehend any part of the conversation we were having, you’d see I call it a risk that makes it more likely. At the end of the day it’s the rapist’s fault. Is it more likely to happen if she does that? Yes.

[suzzieQ]

That doesn’t make responsible in any part for the assault on her….

[suzzieQ]

Just like you wouldn’t bare any responsibility for getting raped regardless of what you were wearing when it happened..

[Juxtapose]

Yeah, because women who wear burkas never get raped right? XD

[TroyDT]

No. Perpetrators bear all of the responsibility and should be dealt with accordingly.

[KrakenAttackin]

What you are talking about is personal responsibility, which is an alien concept to women.

[Agape93]

Nope, not even a bit.

[blissinanarchy1]

So you believe preventative measures do nothing at all?

[Agape93]

It honestly doesn't matter. Victims bear 0 culpability for the crimes of another

[blissinanarchy1]

The ultimate decision is up to the criminal but the likelihood is decreased by your actions.

[Agape93]

Doesn't matter in the least. Victims can decrease it as much as humanly possible and it can still happen. 100% on the criminal

[blissinanarchy1]

Read my op

[Agape93]

I already did, I disagree and disregard it.

[Dargil]

If they vote Democrat, yes.